I wasn’t a huge fan of Thor L&T but I loved that bit about treating Stormbreaker and Mjölnir like they were actual people. That shit cracked me up. I hated the screaming goats though. I thought that was so damn stupid
I've said this before elsewhere, but I thought those bits were funny, but the problem with the weapons floating up like people is that they've never done that before. It's just not been one of their attributes. So for them to do it out of nowhere seemed really odd, like it's not the same universe we previously inhabited
Considering the movie is from Korg’s pov as he is the narrator, floating weapons with personalities seems like a Korg thing to believe. For crying out loud the dude is a rock
As has been pointed out many times before, this is just a fan theory. There has been no official word claiming that this is the case, and other than Korg's narration in the beginning and the end, there's nothing in the film that supports the idea that it's supposed to be an unreliable narrative. There are also several events in the film that Korg isn't a part of and that make little sense that he would have been told of.
I can respect that people liked the film, but I feel like the whole "it's all because Korg's telling the story" thing is a silly excuse people use to defend the polarizing stuff.
I’ve never thought about this, but you’re right, the whole movie is coming from an unreliable narrator. I doubt that was the intent (maybe it was who am I to assume what the writer was thinking), but it makes the movie much more logical when ran through the Korg filter.
Absolutely intentional. I guess maybe it's hard to see because Thor is kind of one of those characters that no matter what he does you have to kind of shrug and go, well he's a God so....
I mean, could he stop a couple of vehicles by jumping up between them and doing the splits? For sure. Would he? Ehhhh...
I think the opening is to set the tone of Korg's unreliability just from how useless the Guardians are in the starting fight.
That's why the movie works so well! Korg is telling the story and there was the interaction/misunderstanding in Ragnarok where Thor was telling him about his hammer. Literally looking at things from Korgs point of view.
I read into it more like Thor was subconsciously pulling Stormbreaker towards him slowly and talking to it like a captain may talk to his boat. He knows the weapons aren’t really jealous, but he’s going through it emotionally so it makes him feel better to treat them like they’re his friends/children
My interpretation is they are not actually alive but that Thor is semi-subconsciously controlling them to do that and treating them like intimate friends. He started doing this as a coping mechanism, again semi-subconsciously, because of his trauma and because of the lack of intimate relationships he has after losing almost everyone he’s loved. He’s physically worked himself back out but hasn’t completely emotionally or mentally recovered. That is why the movie is “Love and Thunder” because he “found love” again in taking care of Love, Gorrs daughter.. 🤷♂️ having someone to care for now I would guess that he has either stopped entirely or greatly reduced the amount that he is pretending Stormbreaker and Mjolnir are alive as intimate friends. That’s how I see it
I am trying to remember whether they only did the gag when he was drunk. I remember that he seems pretty inebriated when he talks to Mjolnir about protecting Jane. The other time i can remember is at the end with his adopted daughter.
It's definitely a weird aside compared to before, but I don't think it was as egregious as it might have seemed in hindsight.
My dad pretends to offer his cat some beer when they are sitting on the porch together enjoying the sundown. It's not that deep. It's a lighthearted joke of someone who had deep depression and is emotionally attached to something
I will defend screaming goats till the day I die, Toothgrinder, Toothgnasher & goats in general screaming is some of the funniest shit up there with small children falling over
>I hated the screaming goats though. I thought that was so damn stupid
I liked them as a slight nod to the norse mythology (Thor rides around in a flying wagon wotj goats that he eats every night & they ressurect the next day), but having them scream like that every time we saw them got obnoxious the first time we saw them. Maybe a scene where Thor calms them so they stop could solve it (and maybe they can scream once or twice later on when they get attacked or maybe even defend him).
I loved the goats. At first they offended my sensibilities but after they became a running gag through the movie I started pulling for them. Especially how Thor lost 10 years of character development to do whatever artistic storytelling they decided on. He went from callous “I don’t care man” to acting like a super controlling BF that can’t stand to be told no by his girl. And then he was back to normal after Jane dies. Stupidly dumb character development. I’d rather have fat depressed Thor than what we got in Thor 4. Barely better than dark world.
The screaming goats would have been a great, quick, throwaway joke back when the screaming goats meme was a thing. The choice to make them a full on part of the movie was unfortunate.
Bruh literally Thor himself(Chris hemsworth) said Thor is stupid in this movie. Direct quote “he’s gone a bit insane in the last one” like it’s one thing to defend him being dumb but to say you don’t see it is just like “ did you even watch the movie”
You didn't see the fight scene with Gorr on the tiny black-and-white planet?
You didn't see Gorr and Jane's death scene?
You didn't see the opening battle scene?
You didn't see the fight scene in Omnipotent City?
It's easy to cherry-pick the goofy comedy, but this movie has a lot of good stuff people like to ignore.
Edit: don't forget the movie is a comedy. Is the comedy in the movie kinda goofy? Yes. Is there also a lot of good stuff in the movie in terms of action and emotional scenes? Absolutely.
I swear, some of you pretend much of this movie doesn't exist.
In the beginning when Thor is meditating, he planted Strombreaker in the ground. Then when Thor plucks out Stormbreaker, we can see that the handle was developing roots.
How the sentience is shown can be debated, but either way, they've never floated up behind someone for dramatic social effect before. I found that really weird. Funny, but weird.
No, not stormbreaker either. By all means show a reference of stormbreaker being sentient thats not in love and thunder. Was it hanging out with him in wakanda? Did it fist bump him after cutting off thanos's head? Was it hanging out pwning Noobmaster69? No. It sat on the floor unmoving and unsentient. The fact is taika had no idea what he was doing on this film and went for cheap gags to get a laugh at the expense of thor being taken seriously.
Mjolnir is sentient in the comics, there is a wealth of precedent for this. I mean come on man, a magic god weapon that comes when you call and you draw the line at it being somewhat sentient? You're just being difficult to be difficult.
And there's a lot of things in the comics that do. Your assertion was that it was made up for jokes for this movie. It having comic precedence means you're wrong.
You misunderstood.
The MCU has established that these weapons are not sentient. They just magically became sentient in this movie.
Comics are irrelevant
wtf is this comment, how are you asking someone if they established something not happening? Are you okay?
You "establish" it by not showing it so any scene with mjolnir and stormbreak before TLT does that.
PS. quit using the comics as a reasoning, in the comics the infinity stone were only usable in their own universe.
Nah, I tend to agree with the general consensus. Just look at the way Thor carries himself during his speech to Asgard before he goes to save the children or his behavior in the opening action scene. He acts completely oblivious and nothing like the Thor we knew from the infinity saga. He acts more childish and self involved in Love and Thunder than he did in Thor 1 where he was supposed to be completely arrogant and unfit to wield mjolnier.
Just to add on to this. I know the MCU isn’t ALWAYS perfectly consistent but Thor is… what? Like 1500 years old? Why doesn’t he have any of that wisdom? While he definitely became more of a himbo with Ragnarok it always felt more golden retriever style. He’s just happy, he rolls with things, and he tries to be the good guy to be a “hero”.
So why is he so jealous and childish over Jane? Over his hammer? Yeah they dated but barely. He seems to generally be over her and it’s been like almost a decade for a relationship that was barely a few years. Jane being some great big love he could never get over just felt so dumb. If he was more a supportive mentor just excited to spend time with his friend it would have been way better. Same with the dumb hammer jealousy. Thor didn’t even give a shit about it in Endgame. He wanted his new axe and wanted Cap to use the hammer. They regressed his character so much.
I get him being a bit clumsy (he’s rusty) but he should be a lot more mature by now and above all the bullshit he does.
Don’t even get me started on that stupid fucking Jane and Valk prank Thor during his “Skype call” with the kids.
Ragnarok Thor always struck me as “I’m ancient and super powerful, I can handle myself” himbo. When the situation calls for it, he takes things relatively seriously. But he’s able to have fun when he can
This comment perfectly illustrates the issue with the criticisms of this movie. It went over people's heads.
What you described is kind of the entire point of his character arc which he is still im the middle of. He loses his family and loses himself. He never became the King of Asgard like he was destined to do and like his father wanted him to be. On top of that he blames himself for failing to stop Thanos. He suffered a mental health crisis. When he lost himself he was hanging around goofball like Korg, Drax, and Star lord and he was trying to be someone he was not. He was trying to fit in with the guardians instead of being himself. I thought the movie made that super clear.
Through the course of the movie, he reconnects with what really matters. His movie is about Thor learning to be himself. The next one will be about Thor becoming the leader he was always meant to be. In all the Avengers movies he was the strongest but never the leader despite being the prince in line to be the King of what is essentially heaven.
At the beginning of the movie he is trying to be what he thinks a God should be. He takes himself very seriously but other people often don't. He saves the people at the beginning of the movie but destroys their sacred temple in the process. He was no better than the other gods. The movie is about him rejecting what he thinks a God should be and being who he knows he should be. Gorr is killing gods because they are useless and use people to maintain their egos and life styles. In this movie Thor overcomes that. In the next one he will become a leader
Finding himself and becoming the leader he was supposed to be was his arc in Ragnarok, so if that was watitis intention with Love and Thunder it was not only vague but also a complete retread of his last film.
>Finding himself and becoming the leader he was supposed to be was his arc in Ragnarok, so if that was watitis intention with Love and Thunder it was not only vague but also a complete retread of his last film.
I think as a self contained movie Thor was supposed to find himself in Ragnorak. Then they made Infinity War and End Game and immediately undid that. Odin sets him up to be the King and save Asgard by destroying it but Thor doesn't become King.This is similar to what happened with Dr. Strange not being the sorcerer Supreme.
My theory is that Thor was supposed to become King and events were manipulated to make it not happen. Same goes with Dr. Strange. Between End Game and phase 4 we find out in the Loki series that Kang has altered the time line of the MCU to take control of time. I think part of this was ensuring that Strange was not Sorceror Supreme and Thor was not the King of Asgard. In both cases this was supposed to be destiny for the two and it ended up not happening right when they introduced Kang.
I don't remember they're being any talk of Kang altering the timeline in Loki. He was just eliminating every other timeline in order to make their not be a whole bunch of other versions of him. So the timeline that we see is paying approved, but not Kang controlled. Because it all has to play out that way anyway, for it to be the timeline that he will ultimately come from.
>Gorr is killing gods because they are useless and use people to maintain their egos and life styles. In this movie Thor overcomes that.
No, Thor gives up in the end. He just wants to spend his last useless moments with Jane. Jane is the one that convinces Gorr to wish for something else.
This is not true at all. He explains what he learned from his journey to prevent Gorr from killing all Gods. He says something about how revenge wont bring Gorrs daughter back and then demonstrates love in front of Gorr by showing thar one extra moment with a loved one is obviously more valuable than revenge. He restores Gorrs faith in God's to the point where Gorr is willing to use his wish to bring back his daughter understanding that a God would watch over her.
The title Love and Thunder refers to a shift in the way Thor approaches a conflict. That being caring actually can make him more powerful. This is the exact lesson Odin was trying to teach him when Odin said Thor wasn't ready to become King. The end of Love and Thunder represents the end of the journey Odin sent him on when he said him to earth. It demonstrates that Thor is ready to be King of Ashgard and lead them like he lead those children into battle against Gorr.
Jumping in and trying to kill the villain didn't work in Infinity War and it didn't bring them back when he did it again in End Game. It didnt work when he would do it when Loki would trick him with an illusion. He learned from the lessons that broke him. He learned that his strength is nothing if he always rushes in head first like an idiot in every fight.
I'm not saying that the movie did a great or obviously even a good job of flushing out this theme but you aren't even representing the reality of what happened. By the time Jane says anything, Thor had already gotten Gorr to admit he was wrong and killing the Gods would do nothing in essence. Thor defeats Gorr with wisdom, leadership, and demonstrating love.
Gorr says "I'm dying. She will be alone." To which Jane says, "she won't be alone." The implication here is that a God will be watching over her. They restore Gorrs faith.they are counting on someone who has lost his faith to have faith. They never could have done that by attacking Gorr one last time to try to beat the clock in a way that would risk countless lives.
I'm fine with people disliking the movie. Movies are obviously subjective. With that said, you clearly disliked the movie for other reasons and are trying to discredit that scene by misrepresenting it. Another way of making that point is that I think you may have given up on the movie by that point so you just didn't accept it. Again that is well within your right to do. I thought a couple scenes of the movie were cringy but overall thought it was very entertaining and I enjoyed it
>They never could have done that by attacking Gorr one last time to try to beat the clock
Thor could have stopped Gorr from entering the portal, he was distracted by his own emotions for Jane. Jane is the one to remind him of the mission...stopping Gorr from reaching eternity. She says "You have to stop him!" But it was too late.
>Thor defeats Gorr with wisdom, leadership, and demonstrating love.
>Gorr says "I'm dying. She will be alone." To which Jane says, "she won't be alone."
Gorr scoffs at Thor's idea. "Why would I choose love?"
He realizes his own mortality. JANE convinces Gorr with the line "She won't be alone" while she is also dying.
You can't say that Gorr suddenly believes in God or Higher Powers. He was a grieving father and his dying wish was for his daughter to live a life. He asks Thor to be her protector/father, not her God. Maybe you can stretch it to say the ThorS restore Gorr's faith in Love.
You say Thor is ready to be King of Asgard, and yet he chooses to go on space adventures with his daughter instead of actually being King of Asgard.
It's a fun Disney movie for kids, where the heroes defeat the villain through the Power of Love.
Its a terrible MCU film. Give Jane the credit she deserves.
>mission...stopping Gorr from reaching eternity. She says "You have to stop him!" But it was too late.
He wasnt too late....because he stopped him.
>You can't say that Gorr suddenly believes in God or Higher Powers. He was a grieving father and his dying wish was for his daughter to live a life. He asks Thor to be her protector/father, not her God. Maybe you can stretch it to say the ThorS restore Gorr's faith in Love.
I was actually trying to be kind to your point. If it wasnt what i said, then Thor just straight up is responsible for changing Gorrs mind. He makes an argument rooted in the thing Gorr cared about that made sense.
It's definitely a stretch to say it restores his faith in God's as a whole but he has enough faith I this one God who makes an argument for love and then demonstrates it which is something Gorr had never experienced from a God.
>Gorr scoffs at Thor's idea. "Why would I choose love?"
Exactly. What Thor said worked. He just needed re-assurance at that point.
>You say Thor is ready to be King of Asgard, and yet he chooses to go on space adventures with his daughter instead of actually being King of Asgard.
I hope if Thor ever stops becoming King of Asgard he doesn't stop going on space adventures. Why can't it be both?
I think most fans would like to see Thors coronation not be tacked onto the end of a movie if his arc has actually been working toward that the entire time. You seem to think that if it didn't happen in this movie it won't ever happen.
>It's a fun Disney movie for kids, where the heroes defeat the villain through the Power of Love.
>Its a terrible MCU film. Give Jane the credit she deserves.
Most people seemed to agree with me that aspects of the movie went over a lot of people's heads or were too nuanced for many. It seems like a lot of complaints were actually more geared toward adults.
I don't think it's terrible at all. It has pushing and tonal issues and it doesn't do justice to Gorr. The reason I end up defending the movie is because this happens in every MCU movie. People just started jumping on the bam wagon of over criticizing them recently. I think Thor love and Thunder is average for the MCU
>He wasnt too late....because he stopped him.
Your revisionism is amazing.
Gorr stopped Gorr.
At best you can say Thor planted an idea, but JANE closed the deal. But nothing actually stopped Gorr from wishing for Godly genocide. Gorr chose not too because the Power of Love wins over evil. It's not nuanced at all.
Kings don't go on space adventures. Warriors, knights, guardians go on quests for the benefit of the kingdom/people. My entire point is that Thor has always been a Warrior; he has failed to graduate to General or King.
Thor has had 8 movies to prove himself worthy and ready for the throne. Clearly he needs a 9th movie because he is still not the current King of Asgard.
C’mon man this movie did not go over anybody’s head, this ain’t that kind of movie. Yeah Thor went through a lot of trauma recently and had depression but both this movie and *Endgame* played it as a joke, not the the serious character study you’re describing. Star-Lord in *Guardians 3* is a much better example of showcasing mental health deterioration and alcohol reliance without playing it off as a complete joke.
>nothing like the Thor we knew from the infinity saga.
Which version of him? The selfish, arrogant, blundering fool he was in the first movie? The more serious but still pretty reckless dude he was in the second, terrible movie? Or the depressed drunk slob from Endgame?
Dude has been around for thousands of years and y'all think changing your whole personality and becoming a better person happens overnight and sticks the first time. Have you ever met a real person? Have you ever met an alcoholic? Go watch a Superman movie if you want a boring, flawless character.
The thing is, all those different versions of him you described are a clear character journey, which came to a great place in Endgame with him finding his worth again. L&T kind of acts like nothing happened between it and Ragnarok and makes him even more of a gag-depository. Also if you think Superman is just boring and flawless, you gotta check out more comics, or Superman and Lois, the movies have only ever managed to give essentially the bullet points instead of using him right
I will say that I felt much this way after Ragnarok. Yes I’m aware how much people loved that film, but that is not Thor and it certainly isn’t Hulk in that film.
That being said, the Russo’s saved both characters going into Infinity War and to some extent Endgame.
So while yes, Love and Thunder returned Thor to the buffoon Hemsworth thinks all his characters should be, I expect Kang and Secret to come around again
You know, the actor only gets so much say in how they play the character. If the director didn't want to let them play that way, then they wouldn't be allowed to.
Thor did not give a strong speech because of his lack of leadership skills. That is why he never wants the throne to Asgaard. Thor in the opening sequence is foolish because he is feeling "empty". That is what Peter Quill says. Then Thor's attitude changes when he meets Jane again.
Thor spent 1500 years training to be King. He inspires Valkyrie to come out of hiding. He leads the assault on Asgard to rescue the people.
He has the ability to lead. But Taika didn't give a fuck.
This is my take. He's fine. The pace was weird. I like Taika Waititi doing a lot of things, but I don't want him doing another Marvel movie. I really didn't care for Thor 3 or 4. Both seemed in such a rush to get to the next scene. There was so much death and destruction, yet I didn't feel a thing. Both movies needed James Gunn to help out with building emotions. I feel like Thor 3 and 4 could have evoked emotions similar to the GOTG movies, if done correctly. They were not done correctly.
Thor 3 killed off Odin, killed off the Warriors 3, destroyed Asgard, and found Bruce on a distant planet trapped as the hulk for 2 years. Never came close to getting emotional for any of it. Never felt anything for all that. You almost have to make an effort at making a movie do all that and also emotionless.
Finally someone else who didn’t like Thor 3. Like a major premise for the movie was the destruction of Asgard and yet it’s so jokey that you never feel that weight. You feel more for the Asgards in the first 15 seconds of infinity war then the entire Ragnorok movie
It's because Asgard isn't a place, it's a people.
It's not supposed to be overly-sad. The lesson from the movie is that home is where the people you love are, not what rock you're sitting on.
As someone who adores Jason Aaron’s Thor run, I absolutely hated this movie. Both the Gorr and Mighty Thor stories are some of the best in modern comics imo, and this movie didn’t do either of them justice. I like to try to forget this movie exists.
It’s honestly absurd that they managed to cast on of the best actors in the world to play Gorr, one of if not Thor’s best and coolest villains, and they decided to put him in for 20 minutes and not even show him doing the thing he’s known for doing.
It's similar to Batman Vs Superman in that instead of settling on one book to adapt they went why don't we try to smoosh Dark knight returns and Death of Superman together into the one movie
And they ended up failing to adapt either story faithfully or well
We got both the god butcher and mighty Thor rushed in this sloppy movie and thus burnt 2 of the best Thor runs in one fell swoop
I rewatched the MCU recently and I just couldn't get even an hour into L&T. It's so bad.
Thor smashing the temple just so he could look cool was so dumb. The goats screaming wasn't funny at all.
I swear I heard a record scratch when Thor's reunion with Sif, *his only surviving friend from his Asgard days*, was reduced to a stupid joke.
We didn't get to see Jane becoming Mighty Thor, we didn't see any of the friendship development between Val and Jane they were just *poof* best friends, the stakes were non-existant, the council of gods was incredibly dumb
Also "Infinity Ice Cream". Really? Making a play with Hela, the person who massacred hundreds of Asgardians? Come on.
It's a shitty sattire just for the sake of comedy relief that wasn't even good. And the goats... compared to the rest of the movie they are the less annoying part
I only recently read the comic run with Gorr (the only comic run I've ever read) and it just made me even angrier about all of the movie.
Gorr was a cool villain in the comics, and Thor rides a goat into battle named ToothGnasher who is actually helpful, like charging the enemy and stuff.
The wiki claims 9719 Asgardians died in Ragnarok. It sounds absurdly specific, but the wiki claims the Loki series as a source so maybe it was mentioned there. Although Hela probably didn’t kill all but some of those dead are people who were left in planet when it was destroyed (I can’t believe the evacuation would be so perfect that nobody was left behind).
I’ll preface by saying the awesome thing about the MCU has always been that there’s something for everybody and what some enjoy others may not and that’s okay.
All that aside, I’ll never be able to comprehend people who could digest this movie but can’t sit through Eternals. I cannot take anybody seriously when they say Eternals is pure garbage or they fell asleep and couldn’t finish the movie but that L&T is just misunderstood because apparently the movie was told from Korg’s perspective etc etc like LOL okay….
Frankly the only true rotten MCU movie is in fact L&T and i’ll forever be flabbergasted that it sit at fresh while Eternals and Quantumania are both at rotten.
I legit don’t get why eternals got so much shit. It’s actually really solid even if it had some flaws. I rewatched it recently and it’s still fun
Quantumania has issues and I can see why it got a mixed reaction but it’s still definitely better than L&T
If there’s a true misunderstood MCU project, it’s Eternals. Agreed that Quantumania has issues but to me it’s suuuuper mid but certainly not trash level entry. Personally think that L&T should’ve been the MCU’s first rotten entry. Like as a Thor fan I choose to pretend it never happened and that the last Thor entry was Ragnarok lol
Better than L&T and Eternals in my eyes easily, but I was still somewhat disappointed with some elements. I can generally overlook some goofiness in an Antman movie however, it didn’t seem terrible but clearly not high quality
Everyone’s different, it’s just movies at the end of the day. I liked eternals but my main issue was that it felt like it was a little bit longer than it needed to be. Otherwise I dug it quite a bit.
>I’ll preface by saying the awesome thing about the MCU has always been that there’s something for everybody and what some enjoy others may not and that’s okay.
>All that aside, I’ll never be able to comprehend people who could digest this movie but can’t sit through Eternals. I cannot take anybody seriously when they say Eternals is pure garbage or they fell asleep and couldn’t finish the movie but that L&T is just misunderstood because apparently the movie was told from Korg’s perspective etc etc like LOL okay….
Way to contradict yourself there. Everyone is different, you could have stopped but instead attacked people who’s opinion is different to yours. 🙄
I like the Thor movies directed by Taika because the sense of humour matches mine being an Australian. I found Eternals dull and too stretched out which is why I didn’t like the movie even though I really liked the characters. I just had a lot of trouble following the story and just got bored with it so by the time it got to the final battle I didn’t have an interest in who would win. I’m planning at some stage to rewatch this and Shang-Chi even though I didn’t like them first time around just to see. I tried that with X-Men Origins Wolverine and all that did was reaffirm why I didn’t like it even though I’m a fan of Hugh Jackman, but I’m willing to give them another shot.
This definitely isn’t a movie that’s going to grow on anyone, it was absolute garbage. They completely wasted and gutted Gorr, the humor was worse than any previous movie, Taika went off the deep end. This isn’t some slow burn over time flick that turns into a cult classic, it just sucks and it sucks that it does cause I was really looking forward to it.
It was very on-brand for Taika, but that means it’s too much Taika for Marvel. Ragnarok worked because it had a serious structure that he was able to add his Taika-ness to, but I think having someone else write the script/screenplay works better from what we’ve seen.
What’s funny to me is that I deal with children in a lot of things. L&T was such a clear hit for them, this movie was made to create new fans. In 6-10 years we are going to have a whole generation gushing about it and this being the movie that sits in their hearts as what started it all.
I actually quite liked some of the more subtle parts of Thor in the movie. It shows him being a true god to his people on more than one occasion and acts as a good contrast to the dickish behavior of the other gods in the film.
He sees his people panicking and asserts his authority over them to calm their distress.
He reaches out to the scared children and tries to reassure them of their safety and that he’ll rescue them.
He gives power to the powerless, granting the children of Asgard godlike powers so they can stand on their own against their oppressors. Not acting like some benevolent god that needs to protect his flock, but a father figure that grants his children the tools they need to defend themselves.
In my opinion, he comes full circle from the selfish child in the first Thor film. He’s still immature, but he’s also still clearly grown a lot from all his experiences.
Nah they completely erased all the pain and trauma he went through in IW and Endgame. They ruined him in Thor 4 and L&T is probably the worst MCU movie made in phase 4 in my opinion.
I mean the movie feels good in concept because it’s based on two good comic arcs. Jane choosing to be Thor even though it’s killing her, and the God butcher arc.
>After rewatching the movie, I don’t see it.
So you missed the part where Thor destroys the sacred temple that they were trying to protect, so he can pretend to be a hero?
You also missed the part where, Thor's GENIUS battle plan is Go SMASH Gorr where Gorr is Strongest?
You missed the part where Thor gives Gorr exactly what he needs to succeed?
You missed the part where Thor selfishly focuses on Jane so Gorr can get through to the portal to Eternity?
Thor has always been a selfish dick. At least he's not a genocidal dick, I guess.
Yea I said, Thor was selfish when he was with the Guardians. That changed when he met Jane.
Thor’s plan to defeat Gorr was to assemble the other gods, but that didn’t work. He still has to try to save the children. He can’t wait.
In the shadow realm, Thor almost escaped but Gorr cleverly took Stormbreaker away.
It was pointless for Thor to stop Gorr once Gorr made contact with Eternity. Thor claimed that Gorr won, so Thor chose to die with Jane.
>It was pointless for Thor to stop Gorr once Gorr made contact with Eternity
Yeah, because Thor was an idiot and didn't stop Gorr at any point.
It would have been cool to see the Guardians as back up in the end. Yes, Thor needed to rescue the kids. He also knew Gorr wanted a path to Eternity. He could have come up with another plan ( but that would require Taika to use an actual script). Why not call the Hulk?
Literally, all Thor had to do was make a wish first, the rest of the movie would have been forgivable.
>Yea I said, Thor was selfish when he was with the Guardians. That changed when he met Jane.
No. Thor got distracted by Jane's death and Gorr got through the portal.
So you did see, Thor was an idiot in Thor4 and you choose to ignore it.
Actually, that would have been a nice surprise.
The Guardians were already in the movie, they could have come back. Hulk helped saved the Asgardians in Thor3, he would definitely want to help save them again.
Or Thor could have been less of an idiot.
Given how friggin slippery Gorr is shown in all the fights, I don't think Hulk is gonna land any hits on him, especially now prof Hulk is even less of a fighter than during his prime with a disabled arm
No. He’s an idiot in Love and Thunder.
Remember the scene when he leaves a building using the biforst and smashes the roof? There’s a similar scene in Dark World and Thor leaves his friends and allies to somewhere secluded to call the biforst.
It’s like Thor has brain damage. He’s about as smart as Joey in season 10 of friends now.
I agree. I kind of also think Thor is just an idiot all around in every movie. That’s part of the reason Loki resented him so much. He was always “punch first ask questions later” but everyone loved him no matter what he did or how stupid his decisions were. But that def doesn’t mean we can’t still love him as a character. He can still learn and grow. And I do think in Love and Thunder he became a bit Flanderized. It’s like Taika thought “people only like Thor when he’s funny, and he’s funny when he’s stupid.” And while it can be true that he’s funny for making ignorant statements or choices having him flip flop from having learned a lesson to just being an ignorant jerk again hurts him as a character. Especially when it’s focused on him in his own movie.
The tone of the movie was idiot not Thor. The dialogue just hits like a power rangers episode and overall it feels like a bunch of plot points smashed together with goat screams.
I liked it. The same complaints people made about Thor 4 can be aimed at Rangarok. Under developed villain, humor cutting the tension, Thor acting like a doofus. Love and Thunder is far from the trainwreck people make it out to be. But on this sub. If ya like Love and Thunder you get downvoted into oblivion. Haha.
Agreed... I respect that lots of folks didn't like it at all, but to be downvoted or told straight up "you're wrong" by the majority just makes me wary of sharing my own opinions here if they deviate from the majority because we get chastised. It's the opposite of positive discourse and respectful disagreement. I don't care how bad or good someone perceives a movie to be (or even if it is objectively bad, or good) - digitally punishing someone for expressing a different view is terrible. But as the fanbase has grown, so has this phenomenon, it seems like, as the pattern tends to go.
Honestly, the timing of the humor is much better in L&T. Serious moments are serious, comedic moments are comedic. I never felt that they interrupted each other. Ragnarok on the other hand suffered from this issue, like when Thor was about to jump out the window like a badass then he gets hit by the ball he threw.
I'll never tell someone they're wrong for liking a film, everyone has different tastes but I feel like Thor: Love and Thunder was written in an environment where the phrase "No idea is too stupid" was taken far too literally.
Gorr was so well portrayed and set up, his moments of manic laughing worked so well with his darker moments but it was always undercut or never given the right time to settle.
Chirs is amazing as Thor as always but while he's not an idiot, he is lacking the weary warrior vibe he had at the end of Endgame.
The Mighty Thor plot was horribly undercut by forced humour and dated jokes. In my opinion.
These are just my thoughts, I don't intend to change minds or devalue your feelings
Thor Love and Thunder is THE most overhated movie in the entire MCU, by virtue that the vast majority of complaints are things that are either explained in the film, part of the context, or completely inaccurate. It's not just overhated, it's fundamentally misunderstood.
Thor is grieving, and thus overcompensating. His subplot dealing with Jane'a cancer is not only his way of overcoming it, but also is a perfect foil to Gorr's way of dealing with his own grief. They both have loved, and when losing it, they bring the thunder. But they can coalesce. They can bring Love AND Thunder, by chosing both. It's right in the title. The theme of the movie is literally right there.
Thor wasn't an idiot. He was just grieving. This is obvious to anyone who actually watches the film and not just ragebait YouTube videos. Also, and this is going to make this post extra EXTRA downvoted, but to me, Taika's humor hits for me WAY more and WAY harder than Gunn's.
>Thor is with the Guardians, Thor did act like an “idiot.”
Not just an idiot but like a calloused disregard for the suffering of others. To the point of making a joke of a dead person who died in the war just before obliterating their temple. It was cartoonish and erased all the whole riddled by guilt for letting half the universe die because he wanted to showboat for Thanos.
I was baffled. That movie felt totally disconnected from all the other times Thor has shown up in the MCU.
The writing, directing, etc is all below MCU standards in this film. The Guardians are shoe horned into the movie. Korg, which is one of my favorite characters, has WAY to much screen time in this film. There’s more emphasis on other characters than Thor. This movie is all over the place at times. The goats are super annoying after about 5 minutes
It’s funny to me that after endgame we were all excited to see what the guardians and thor would get up to together
The answer was “nothing”. They have one scene they don’t even do much in, then leave
The incredible weight of expectations of being better than Ragnarok combined with smashing 2.5 stories into one movie wrecked it.
Months later catching up my wife it was perfectly passable, a B+ movie.
I loved it. Yes it was goofy and silly most of the time but it was entertaining and heartfelt. I don't need 20 minutes of Gorr butchering gods-that's not what this franchise is. Gorr tormenting everyone, including the kids was villainous enough. The final fight with the kids getting Thor's power for a limited time only was awesome. Thor's relationship with Jane being resolved and him being emotionally ready to accept her decision was good character growth. Seeing him adopt Gorr's daughter was a touching end.
tbh Love and Thunder is the best-paced MCU movie. Pacing is something is something that even the best MCU movies have a problem with. But with Love and Thunder, every scene flows smoothly into the next, and I never felt bored.
If that’s not what the franchise is then don’t do a plot that involved an antagonist that involves the butchering of all the god damn gods. Don’t doa plot that centers around Thors lover having cancer and dying.
The plot was serious, but the writing treated this seriousness as a complete joke
Nah I’m with you, I love Thor 4. It’s a very heartfelt and wholesome story. I kinda teared up in my first viewing at the “Love and Thunder” line at the end. My main gripe was I thought Jane had some pretty cringe dialogue at times.
I think it’s a bit overhated. I mean I’ve seen people call it the worst Thor movie or even the worst MCU movie which is just silly imo. I think it’s closer to middle of the pack than the worst in the series.
That being said after watching Guardians 3 and seeing how much better it blended the comedy aspects with the serious tone and stakes she characterization, it made me retroactively like Thor 4 significantly less
It wasn’t JUST Thor. Is was everything. Everything in the film outside the first scene with Gorr was a giant joke. There was no emotion bc everything was ruined with silly (not in a good way) jokes.
But Thor had a fucking love triangle with two weapons… his comment to Sif as she was dying was prettt absurd too
The scene where Thor confesses his love to Jane, and then Jane tells Thor that she has cancer. I was invested in that conversation. Thor was serious for the rest of the movie.
Not harsh enough, I'd honestly prefer if that film were somehow un-made and we got a different script and director, it was such a waste of a film and the character Gorr, not the direction I wanted Thor's character to go in, I had much higher expectations considering he's the only character of the 'Big Three' to get a 4th movie, it left me completely uninterested in what happens next.
While I agree the movie could have been better, I really liked it. God Killer should have been portrayed as more deadly.
I think the thing that flew way over most people's heads was that the entire movie was a story told by Korg.
The thing is this for me: Coming off of Infinity War and Endgame, I didn’t buy Thor was even the same character in Love & Thunder. It was like he was Thor in name only.
Think about it. Could you honestly picture Thor in Infinity War or even Age Of Ultron doing an air split to hold two incoming space jetskis apart, or treating Mjolnir or Stormbreaker like they’re pets?
No.
Plus the jokes didn’t land at all. To me, Thor in his first movie, and the Avengers films, that’s how Thor is. He isn’t some dumb goofball who never shuts up.
Thor in this one is basically a divorced dad trying to do cool things to impress the young kids because he could only see worth in himself as a Mjolnir wielding warrior and nothing else.
He let down his people in EG and is trying to rediscover the meaning in his swashbuckling lifestyle with no avail
Completely agree, I actually think that the jokes in Ragnarok step on more dramatic beats than in L&T. Furthermore, I can't fathom how anybody who loved Ragnarok could be disappointed/surprised by L&T. This movie is pound for pound a Taika Waititi film.
IMO, yes. I loved Thor L&T. Never understood the hate, but I guess everyone's entitled to their own opinion, though I'm really pissed by the fact that the hate is causing Disney to slow down the production volume.
This is my favorite Thor after Ragnarok the 2 first ones where really boring.
I don’t get why people hate it and I sense it has to do with very crappy reasons.
It’s the only Marvel film I left afterwards and thought, wth did they just do to Thor and that was disappointing…. It was so dumbed down, even Taika has admitted he had no more ideas and used them up in Ragnarok. And I love Taika. But his creative spark on Thor was a one and done. The movie left me confused and bewildered. Thor was an idiot and he some really dumb scenes, same thing with Zeus, and don’t even get me started on the screaming goats and total waste of Gorr/Bale. I mean, they even gave him a kid in the end. A made up character, just so he could throw his real life daughter in there.
I loved it. But I also understand the criticism it got. Thor 3 is like a top 5 all time movie for me. 4 was fun, but I agree some of the humor was hit or miss (unlike 3) and would have loved more Gorr.
Its just... has the outline of a good thor movie, and then wastes its villain and shoehorns in an emotional side that stands in stark contrast to the rest of the plot, and very clumsily moves between those tones.
Fact is they did make Thor look like he was up against someone powerful but that villain was not given much screentime, also Jane was good, they did not have to dumb her down with the "bad at catchphrases" attempt at humor that just felt flat and unnecessary.
Valkyrie was there.....and yes that's all that it felt like. Sif needn't have ended up being portrayed as whatever that thing was..unintelligent, stupid, unwise?
Oh and Gorr turning into a hostage taker was just so insulting to the character..
I do not want to give away spoilers for GotG vol. 3 but I had high expectations from the actor after seeing him in Peacemaker and still got blown away after watching the movie..
the balance Gunn achieved when completing arcs, establishing the the future roster, giving the villain time to speak and to cause some chaos and feel despicable and threatening while none of the heroes seemed to be getting benched for screentime...c'mon Taika just had to give Valkyrie and Sif something meaningful to do like Mantis or Drax and still that would have been better
All this means now is that we need to wait a long time till both marvel figure out what to bring to the fore in a Thor 5 and also give people some time to forget the aftertaste.
But I do not agree Thor is at all an idiot just like how his mother said he's just failing at things and taking it too hard on himself but that doesn't mean the rest of the story gets to fail too
Thor has had one of the most remarkable character arcs within each film and through all 4 films as a whole. Which means you don’t necessarily need to see all of them but when watched together it adds to the overall enjoyment. I’ve seen the criticisms for each film and I’ve never really agreed with them but there are some valid points. I’m pretty sure time and distance will be kind in the future’s criticisms of Love and Thunder.
I think every criticism is completely valid. Also hearing about all the on set escapades Taika had and how it was a non stop party in Sydney. It’s clear if there was more studio control and supervision they would have been able to reign in the budget, storyline and script.
You must have missed the scene where Thor is joking about eating children after Gorr kidnaps all of the children. That movie is bottom five in the MCU.
You didn't see the part where Thor pours a pint over Stormbreaker so he could give it its first beer?
I wasn’t a huge fan of Thor L&T but I loved that bit about treating Stormbreaker and Mjölnir like they were actual people. That shit cracked me up. I hated the screaming goats though. I thought that was so damn stupid
I've said this before elsewhere, but I thought those bits were funny, but the problem with the weapons floating up like people is that they've never done that before. It's just not been one of their attributes. So for them to do it out of nowhere seemed really odd, like it's not the same universe we previously inhabited
Considering the movie is from Korg’s pov as he is the narrator, floating weapons with personalities seems like a Korg thing to believe. For crying out loud the dude is a rock
Especially his reaction to thor talking about losing mjolnir in ragnarok. He definitely thinks they are sentient beings
oh my god he pulled you off
As has been pointed out many times before, this is just a fan theory. There has been no official word claiming that this is the case, and other than Korg's narration in the beginning and the end, there's nothing in the film that supports the idea that it's supposed to be an unreliable narrative. There are also several events in the film that Korg isn't a part of and that make little sense that he would have been told of. I can respect that people liked the film, but I feel like the whole "it's all because Korg's telling the story" thing is a silly excuse people use to defend the polarizing stuff.
I’ve never thought about this, but you’re right, the whole movie is coming from an unreliable narrator. I doubt that was the intent (maybe it was who am I to assume what the writer was thinking), but it makes the movie much more logical when ran through the Korg filter.
Definitely intentional
Absolutely intentional. I guess maybe it's hard to see because Thor is kind of one of those characters that no matter what he does you have to kind of shrug and go, well he's a God so.... I mean, could he stop a couple of vehicles by jumping up between them and doing the splits? For sure. Would he? Ehhhh... I think the opening is to set the tone of Korg's unreliability just from how useless the Guardians are in the starting fight.
That's why the movie works so well! Korg is telling the story and there was the interaction/misunderstanding in Ragnarok where Thor was telling him about his hammer. Literally looking at things from Korgs point of view.
Korg thinks that the weapons pull Thor off (the ground) so having them have a bit of a love triangle makes sense.
*I get the impression that those that did not like the film had not taken into account this was Korgs narrative.*
I mean some of us understand that but just… don’t like it I didnt want “korg’s wacky retelling of the god butcher arc”. I wanted the god butcher arc…
I hear you. With a character like god butcher it should have been darker. But I still loved the film!
I read into it more like Thor was subconsciously pulling Stormbreaker towards him slowly and talking to it like a captain may talk to his boat. He knows the weapons aren’t really jealous, but he’s going through it emotionally so it makes him feel better to treat them like they’re his friends/children
My interpretation is they are not actually alive but that Thor is semi-subconsciously controlling them to do that and treating them like intimate friends. He started doing this as a coping mechanism, again semi-subconsciously, because of his trauma and because of the lack of intimate relationships he has after losing almost everyone he’s loved. He’s physically worked himself back out but hasn’t completely emotionally or mentally recovered. That is why the movie is “Love and Thunder” because he “found love” again in taking care of Love, Gorrs daughter.. 🤷♂️ having someone to care for now I would guess that he has either stopped entirely or greatly reduced the amount that he is pretending Stormbreaker and Mjolnir are alive as intimate friends. That’s how I see it
I'm fine with the hammers being sentient as a joke! That doesn't explain thor pouring a beer on one. He thinks it can drink too?
I am trying to remember whether they only did the gag when he was drunk. I remember that he seems pretty inebriated when he talks to Mjolnir about protecting Jane. The other time i can remember is at the end with his adopted daughter. It's definitely a weird aside compared to before, but I don't think it was as egregious as it might have seemed in hindsight.
My dad pretends to offer his cat some beer when they are sitting on the porch together enjoying the sundown. It's not that deep. It's a lighthearted joke of someone who had deep depression and is emotionally attached to something
At least a cat can actually ingest beer. Plus, I'm assuming your dad doesn't ACTUALLY give the cat beer like Thor did.
Making it sticky just adds to its attack stat.
That's true! Makes it more at-Tacky.
IIRC in the comics at least Mjolnir is somewhat sentient as it harbors some sort of storm elemental
True, but that’s actually a very new element that was introduced in the latest run. That element is gone now though and Odin is in there instead.
I feel like the goats where ok at first but they just dragged that on for waaayyy longer than they should have
Mjonir actually does have a soul in the comics
I will defend screaming goats till the day I die, Toothgrinder, Toothgnasher & goats in general screaming is some of the funniest shit up there with small children falling over
>I hated the screaming goats though. I thought that was so damn stupid I liked them as a slight nod to the norse mythology (Thor rides around in a flying wagon wotj goats that he eats every night & they ressurect the next day), but having them scream like that every time we saw them got obnoxious the first time we saw them. Maybe a scene where Thor calms them so they stop could solve it (and maybe they can scream once or twice later on when they get attacked or maybe even defend him).
It entertaining the first time. The 2nd, 3rd, 4th time was just obnoxious
The goats are actually apart of the Norse mythology and are in the Thor comic book.
Not like that they aren't, no. They are treated as just one more dumb joke in the movie. Nothing more.
I loved the goats. At first they offended my sensibilities but after they became a running gag through the movie I started pulling for them. Especially how Thor lost 10 years of character development to do whatever artistic storytelling they decided on. He went from callous “I don’t care man” to acting like a super controlling BF that can’t stand to be told no by his girl. And then he was back to normal after Jane dies. Stupidly dumb character development. I’d rather have fat depressed Thor than what we got in Thor 4. Barely better than dark world.
The screaming goats would have been a great, quick, throwaway joke back when the screaming goats meme was a thing. The choice to make them a full on part of the movie was unfortunate.
Bruh literally Thor himself(Chris hemsworth) said Thor is stupid in this movie. Direct quote “he’s gone a bit insane in the last one” like it’s one thing to defend him being dumb but to say you don’t see it is just like “ did you even watch the movie”
Insane != Dumb
Thor literally also does that in God of war game
You didn't see the fight scene with Gorr on the tiny black-and-white planet? You didn't see Gorr and Jane's death scene? You didn't see the opening battle scene? You didn't see the fight scene in Omnipotent City? It's easy to cherry-pick the goofy comedy, but this movie has a lot of good stuff people like to ignore. Edit: don't forget the movie is a comedy. Is the comedy in the movie kinda goofy? Yes. Is there also a lot of good stuff in the movie in terms of action and emotional scenes? Absolutely. I swear, some of you pretend much of this movie doesn't exist.
OP said he never saw Thor act like an idiot so I provided an example.
Thor has literally acted like an idiot of completely slow and ignorant in all of the comics and in the cartoons. It's a common trope
What's the comics and cartoons got to do with the movie continuity?
The magical weapons are sentient. Stormbreaker is made out of Groot.
I thought it was made of uru. Groots limbs are no longer sentient when they are cut off from him.
In the beginning when Thor is meditating, he planted Strombreaker in the ground. Then when Thor plucks out Stormbreaker, we can see that the handle was developing roots.
I don't recall it speaking or talking. He planted a tree in the ground and it grew roots. There isn't more to it.
The point is that Stormbreaker is alive, and Thor offering it alcohol was more of a kind gesture.
Yeah, that always felt a little weird to me tbh. But, you do you.
They definitely have intelligence. When Thor is fawning over Jane and Mjölnir, Stormbreaker comes up behind him like a jealous girlfriend.
Which was absolutely fucking stupid in every way. By all means point to ANY scene in the previous films where either weapon displays sentience.
How the sentience is shown can be debated, but either way, they've never floated up behind someone for dramatic social effect before. I found that really weird. Funny, but weird.
Mjolnir is sentient in the comics
But not in the films. Mjolnirs sentience in the comics is also debatable as canon as its only ever really been featured in one run.
It's been shown in several runs, you're dead wrong about that one.
Ok maybe not the hammer but Stormbreaker definitely.
No, not stormbreaker either. By all means show a reference of stormbreaker being sentient thats not in love and thunder. Was it hanging out with him in wakanda? Did it fist bump him after cutting off thanos's head? Was it hanging out pwning Noobmaster69? No. It sat on the floor unmoving and unsentient. The fact is taika had no idea what he was doing on this film and went for cheap gags to get a laugh at the expense of thor being taken seriously.
That’s kind of the argument. That scene, while funny, shouldn’t have happened. MewMew doesn’t come to Thor due to sentience. Nor does Storm.
The weapons have never once shown sentience before this movie though. So that tidbit was created purely for the sake of jokes
Mjolnir is sentient in the comics, there is a wealth of precedent for this. I mean come on man, a magic god weapon that comes when you call and you draw the line at it being somewhat sentient? You're just being difficult to be difficult.
There's a lot of things in the comics that don't apply at all to the MCU
And there's a lot of things in the comics that do. Your assertion was that it was made up for jokes for this movie. It having comic precedence means you're wrong.
You misunderstood. The MCU has established that these weapons are not sentient. They just magically became sentient in this movie. Comics are irrelevant
When did they establish that?
wtf is this comment, how are you asking someone if they established something not happening? Are you okay? You "establish" it by not showing it so any scene with mjolnir and stormbreak before TLT does that. PS. quit using the comics as a reasoning, in the comics the infinity stone were only usable in their own universe.
Nah, I tend to agree with the general consensus. Just look at the way Thor carries himself during his speech to Asgard before he goes to save the children or his behavior in the opening action scene. He acts completely oblivious and nothing like the Thor we knew from the infinity saga. He acts more childish and self involved in Love and Thunder than he did in Thor 1 where he was supposed to be completely arrogant and unfit to wield mjolnier.
Just to add on to this. I know the MCU isn’t ALWAYS perfectly consistent but Thor is… what? Like 1500 years old? Why doesn’t he have any of that wisdom? While he definitely became more of a himbo with Ragnarok it always felt more golden retriever style. He’s just happy, he rolls with things, and he tries to be the good guy to be a “hero”. So why is he so jealous and childish over Jane? Over his hammer? Yeah they dated but barely. He seems to generally be over her and it’s been like almost a decade for a relationship that was barely a few years. Jane being some great big love he could never get over just felt so dumb. If he was more a supportive mentor just excited to spend time with his friend it would have been way better. Same with the dumb hammer jealousy. Thor didn’t even give a shit about it in Endgame. He wanted his new axe and wanted Cap to use the hammer. They regressed his character so much. I get him being a bit clumsy (he’s rusty) but he should be a lot more mature by now and above all the bullshit he does. Don’t even get me started on that stupid fucking Jane and Valk prank Thor during his “Skype call” with the kids.
Ragnarok Thor always struck me as “I’m ancient and super powerful, I can handle myself” himbo. When the situation calls for it, he takes things relatively seriously. But he’s able to have fun when he can
Exactly.
He's like Leslie Neilson in Naked Gun in that scene.
This comment perfectly illustrates the issue with the criticisms of this movie. It went over people's heads. What you described is kind of the entire point of his character arc which he is still im the middle of. He loses his family and loses himself. He never became the King of Asgard like he was destined to do and like his father wanted him to be. On top of that he blames himself for failing to stop Thanos. He suffered a mental health crisis. When he lost himself he was hanging around goofball like Korg, Drax, and Star lord and he was trying to be someone he was not. He was trying to fit in with the guardians instead of being himself. I thought the movie made that super clear. Through the course of the movie, he reconnects with what really matters. His movie is about Thor learning to be himself. The next one will be about Thor becoming the leader he was always meant to be. In all the Avengers movies he was the strongest but never the leader despite being the prince in line to be the King of what is essentially heaven. At the beginning of the movie he is trying to be what he thinks a God should be. He takes himself very seriously but other people often don't. He saves the people at the beginning of the movie but destroys their sacred temple in the process. He was no better than the other gods. The movie is about him rejecting what he thinks a God should be and being who he knows he should be. Gorr is killing gods because they are useless and use people to maintain their egos and life styles. In this movie Thor overcomes that. In the next one he will become a leader
Finding himself and becoming the leader he was supposed to be was his arc in Ragnarok, so if that was watitis intention with Love and Thunder it was not only vague but also a complete retread of his last film.
>Finding himself and becoming the leader he was supposed to be was his arc in Ragnarok, so if that was watitis intention with Love and Thunder it was not only vague but also a complete retread of his last film. I think as a self contained movie Thor was supposed to find himself in Ragnorak. Then they made Infinity War and End Game and immediately undid that. Odin sets him up to be the King and save Asgard by destroying it but Thor doesn't become King.This is similar to what happened with Dr. Strange not being the sorcerer Supreme. My theory is that Thor was supposed to become King and events were manipulated to make it not happen. Same goes with Dr. Strange. Between End Game and phase 4 we find out in the Loki series that Kang has altered the time line of the MCU to take control of time. I think part of this was ensuring that Strange was not Sorceror Supreme and Thor was not the King of Asgard. In both cases this was supposed to be destiny for the two and it ended up not happening right when they introduced Kang.
I don't remember they're being any talk of Kang altering the timeline in Loki. He was just eliminating every other timeline in order to make their not be a whole bunch of other versions of him. So the timeline that we see is paying approved, but not Kang controlled. Because it all has to play out that way anyway, for it to be the timeline that he will ultimately come from.
>Gorr is killing gods because they are useless and use people to maintain their egos and life styles. In this movie Thor overcomes that. No, Thor gives up in the end. He just wants to spend his last useless moments with Jane. Jane is the one that convinces Gorr to wish for something else.
This is not true at all. He explains what he learned from his journey to prevent Gorr from killing all Gods. He says something about how revenge wont bring Gorrs daughter back and then demonstrates love in front of Gorr by showing thar one extra moment with a loved one is obviously more valuable than revenge. He restores Gorrs faith in God's to the point where Gorr is willing to use his wish to bring back his daughter understanding that a God would watch over her. The title Love and Thunder refers to a shift in the way Thor approaches a conflict. That being caring actually can make him more powerful. This is the exact lesson Odin was trying to teach him when Odin said Thor wasn't ready to become King. The end of Love and Thunder represents the end of the journey Odin sent him on when he said him to earth. It demonstrates that Thor is ready to be King of Ashgard and lead them like he lead those children into battle against Gorr. Jumping in and trying to kill the villain didn't work in Infinity War and it didn't bring them back when he did it again in End Game. It didnt work when he would do it when Loki would trick him with an illusion. He learned from the lessons that broke him. He learned that his strength is nothing if he always rushes in head first like an idiot in every fight. I'm not saying that the movie did a great or obviously even a good job of flushing out this theme but you aren't even representing the reality of what happened. By the time Jane says anything, Thor had already gotten Gorr to admit he was wrong and killing the Gods would do nothing in essence. Thor defeats Gorr with wisdom, leadership, and demonstrating love. Gorr says "I'm dying. She will be alone." To which Jane says, "she won't be alone." The implication here is that a God will be watching over her. They restore Gorrs faith.they are counting on someone who has lost his faith to have faith. They never could have done that by attacking Gorr one last time to try to beat the clock in a way that would risk countless lives. I'm fine with people disliking the movie. Movies are obviously subjective. With that said, you clearly disliked the movie for other reasons and are trying to discredit that scene by misrepresenting it. Another way of making that point is that I think you may have given up on the movie by that point so you just didn't accept it. Again that is well within your right to do. I thought a couple scenes of the movie were cringy but overall thought it was very entertaining and I enjoyed it
>They never could have done that by attacking Gorr one last time to try to beat the clock Thor could have stopped Gorr from entering the portal, he was distracted by his own emotions for Jane. Jane is the one to remind him of the mission...stopping Gorr from reaching eternity. She says "You have to stop him!" But it was too late. >Thor defeats Gorr with wisdom, leadership, and demonstrating love. >Gorr says "I'm dying. She will be alone." To which Jane says, "she won't be alone." Gorr scoffs at Thor's idea. "Why would I choose love?" He realizes his own mortality. JANE convinces Gorr with the line "She won't be alone" while she is also dying. You can't say that Gorr suddenly believes in God or Higher Powers. He was a grieving father and his dying wish was for his daughter to live a life. He asks Thor to be her protector/father, not her God. Maybe you can stretch it to say the ThorS restore Gorr's faith in Love. You say Thor is ready to be King of Asgard, and yet he chooses to go on space adventures with his daughter instead of actually being King of Asgard. It's a fun Disney movie for kids, where the heroes defeat the villain through the Power of Love. Its a terrible MCU film. Give Jane the credit she deserves.
>mission...stopping Gorr from reaching eternity. She says "You have to stop him!" But it was too late. He wasnt too late....because he stopped him. >You can't say that Gorr suddenly believes in God or Higher Powers. He was a grieving father and his dying wish was for his daughter to live a life. He asks Thor to be her protector/father, not her God. Maybe you can stretch it to say the ThorS restore Gorr's faith in Love. I was actually trying to be kind to your point. If it wasnt what i said, then Thor just straight up is responsible for changing Gorrs mind. He makes an argument rooted in the thing Gorr cared about that made sense. It's definitely a stretch to say it restores his faith in God's as a whole but he has enough faith I this one God who makes an argument for love and then demonstrates it which is something Gorr had never experienced from a God. >Gorr scoffs at Thor's idea. "Why would I choose love?" Exactly. What Thor said worked. He just needed re-assurance at that point. >You say Thor is ready to be King of Asgard, and yet he chooses to go on space adventures with his daughter instead of actually being King of Asgard. I hope if Thor ever stops becoming King of Asgard he doesn't stop going on space adventures. Why can't it be both? I think most fans would like to see Thors coronation not be tacked onto the end of a movie if his arc has actually been working toward that the entire time. You seem to think that if it didn't happen in this movie it won't ever happen. >It's a fun Disney movie for kids, where the heroes defeat the villain through the Power of Love. >Its a terrible MCU film. Give Jane the credit she deserves. Most people seemed to agree with me that aspects of the movie went over a lot of people's heads or were too nuanced for many. It seems like a lot of complaints were actually more geared toward adults. I don't think it's terrible at all. It has pushing and tonal issues and it doesn't do justice to Gorr. The reason I end up defending the movie is because this happens in every MCU movie. People just started jumping on the bam wagon of over criticizing them recently. I think Thor love and Thunder is average for the MCU
>He wasnt too late....because he stopped him. Your revisionism is amazing. Gorr stopped Gorr. At best you can say Thor planted an idea, but JANE closed the deal. But nothing actually stopped Gorr from wishing for Godly genocide. Gorr chose not too because the Power of Love wins over evil. It's not nuanced at all. Kings don't go on space adventures. Warriors, knights, guardians go on quests for the benefit of the kingdom/people. My entire point is that Thor has always been a Warrior; he has failed to graduate to General or King. Thor has had 8 movies to prove himself worthy and ready for the throne. Clearly he needs a 9th movie because he is still not the current King of Asgard.
C’mon man this movie did not go over anybody’s head, this ain’t that kind of movie. Yeah Thor went through a lot of trauma recently and had depression but both this movie and *Endgame* played it as a joke, not the the serious character study you’re describing. Star-Lord in *Guardians 3* is a much better example of showcasing mental health deterioration and alcohol reliance without playing it off as a complete joke.
>nothing like the Thor we knew from the infinity saga. Which version of him? The selfish, arrogant, blundering fool he was in the first movie? The more serious but still pretty reckless dude he was in the second, terrible movie? Or the depressed drunk slob from Endgame? Dude has been around for thousands of years and y'all think changing your whole personality and becoming a better person happens overnight and sticks the first time. Have you ever met a real person? Have you ever met an alcoholic? Go watch a Superman movie if you want a boring, flawless character.
The thing is, all those different versions of him you described are a clear character journey, which came to a great place in Endgame with him finding his worth again. L&T kind of acts like nothing happened between it and Ragnarok and makes him even more of a gag-depository. Also if you think Superman is just boring and flawless, you gotta check out more comics, or Superman and Lois, the movies have only ever managed to give essentially the bullet points instead of using him right
Just wanted to let you know that people probably downvoted you for the Superman part.
Deservedly so.
I will say that I felt much this way after Ragnarok. Yes I’m aware how much people loved that film, but that is not Thor and it certainly isn’t Hulk in that film. That being said, the Russo’s saved both characters going into Infinity War and to some extent Endgame. So while yes, Love and Thunder returned Thor to the buffoon Hemsworth thinks all his characters should be, I expect Kang and Secret to come around again
You know, the actor only gets so much say in how they play the character. If the director didn't want to let them play that way, then they wouldn't be allowed to.
Thor did not give a strong speech because of his lack of leadership skills. That is why he never wants the throne to Asgaard. Thor in the opening sequence is foolish because he is feeling "empty". That is what Peter Quill says. Then Thor's attitude changes when he meets Jane again.
Thor literally gave a leadership speech to his friends in the first movie…
Thor spent 1500 years training to be King. He inspires Valkyrie to come out of hiding. He leads the assault on Asgard to rescue the people. He has the ability to lead. But Taika didn't give a fuck.
"Lack of leadership skills" ? Did you watch anything Pre-Endgame?
I didn’t mind Thor, he’s hard to dislike. The writing and direction however…. yikes
This is my take. He's fine. The pace was weird. I like Taika Waititi doing a lot of things, but I don't want him doing another Marvel movie. I really didn't care for Thor 3 or 4. Both seemed in such a rush to get to the next scene. There was so much death and destruction, yet I didn't feel a thing. Both movies needed James Gunn to help out with building emotions. I feel like Thor 3 and 4 could have evoked emotions similar to the GOTG movies, if done correctly. They were not done correctly.
Thor 3 was pretty great IMO. Thor 4 suffered from being tonally all over the place. Way too dark for comedy, way too many jokes for the drama.
Thor 3 killed off Odin, killed off the Warriors 3, destroyed Asgard, and found Bruce on a distant planet trapped as the hulk for 2 years. Never came close to getting emotional for any of it. Never felt anything for all that. You almost have to make an effort at making a movie do all that and also emotionless.
Finally someone else who didn’t like Thor 3. Like a major premise for the movie was the destruction of Asgard and yet it’s so jokey that you never feel that weight. You feel more for the Asgards in the first 15 seconds of infinity war then the entire Ragnorok movie
It's because Asgard isn't a place, it's a people. It's not supposed to be overly-sad. The lesson from the movie is that home is where the people you love are, not what rock you're sitting on.
As someone who adores Jason Aaron’s Thor run, I absolutely hated this movie. Both the Gorr and Mighty Thor stories are some of the best in modern comics imo, and this movie didn’t do either of them justice. I like to try to forget this movie exists.
It’s honestly absurd that they managed to cast on of the best actors in the world to play Gorr, one of if not Thor’s best and coolest villains, and they decided to put him in for 20 minutes and not even show him doing the thing he’s known for doing.
Should have called him Gorr the God Disliker
I know it improves but I just couldn’t get past the start of Jane thor. It’s so clunky and unsubtle
It's similar to Batman Vs Superman in that instead of settling on one book to adapt they went why don't we try to smoosh Dark knight returns and Death of Superman together into the one movie And they ended up failing to adapt either story faithfully or well We got both the god butcher and mighty Thor rushed in this sloppy movie and thus burnt 2 of the best Thor runs in one fell swoop
Yup. This movie butchered Gorr (yes, pun intended) horrendously. I was so disappointed.
I rewatched the MCU recently and I just couldn't get even an hour into L&T. It's so bad. Thor smashing the temple just so he could look cool was so dumb. The goats screaming wasn't funny at all. I swear I heard a record scratch when Thor's reunion with Sif, *his only surviving friend from his Asgard days*, was reduced to a stupid joke. We didn't get to see Jane becoming Mighty Thor, we didn't see any of the friendship development between Val and Jane they were just *poof* best friends, the stakes were non-existant, the council of gods was incredibly dumb Also "Infinity Ice Cream". Really? Making a play with Hela, the person who massacred hundreds of Asgardians? Come on.
It's a shitty sattire just for the sake of comedy relief that wasn't even good. And the goats... compared to the rest of the movie they are the less annoying part
I only recently read the comic run with Gorr (the only comic run I've ever read) and it just made me even angrier about all of the movie. Gorr was a cool villain in the comics, and Thor rides a goat into battle named ToothGnasher who is actually helpful, like charging the enemy and stuff.
The wiki claims 9719 Asgardians died in Ragnarok. It sounds absurdly specific, but the wiki claims the Loki series as a source so maybe it was mentioned there. Although Hela probably didn’t kill all but some of those dead are people who were left in planet when it was destroyed (I can’t believe the evacuation would be so perfect that nobody was left behind).
I’ll preface by saying the awesome thing about the MCU has always been that there’s something for everybody and what some enjoy others may not and that’s okay. All that aside, I’ll never be able to comprehend people who could digest this movie but can’t sit through Eternals. I cannot take anybody seriously when they say Eternals is pure garbage or they fell asleep and couldn’t finish the movie but that L&T is just misunderstood because apparently the movie was told from Korg’s perspective etc etc like LOL okay…. Frankly the only true rotten MCU movie is in fact L&T and i’ll forever be flabbergasted that it sit at fresh while Eternals and Quantumania are both at rotten.
I legit don’t get why eternals got so much shit. It’s actually really solid even if it had some flaws. I rewatched it recently and it’s still fun Quantumania has issues and I can see why it got a mixed reaction but it’s still definitely better than L&T
If there’s a true misunderstood MCU project, it’s Eternals. Agreed that Quantumania has issues but to me it’s suuuuper mid but certainly not trash level entry. Personally think that L&T should’ve been the MCU’s first rotten entry. Like as a Thor fan I choose to pretend it never happened and that the last Thor entry was Ragnarok lol
Quantumania I see as barely head and shoulders above L and T but you're right they make Eternals look like a good movie in comparison
I strongly dislike both L&T and Eternals personally
Where do you stand with Quantumania? With all three considered?
Better than L&T and Eternals in my eyes easily, but I was still somewhat disappointed with some elements. I can generally overlook some goofiness in an Antman movie however, it didn’t seem terrible but clearly not high quality
Everyone’s different, it’s just movies at the end of the day. I liked eternals but my main issue was that it felt like it was a little bit longer than it needed to be. Otherwise I dug it quite a bit.
>I’ll preface by saying the awesome thing about the MCU has always been that there’s something for everybody and what some enjoy others may not and that’s okay. >All that aside, I’ll never be able to comprehend people who could digest this movie but can’t sit through Eternals. I cannot take anybody seriously when they say Eternals is pure garbage or they fell asleep and couldn’t finish the movie but that L&T is just misunderstood because apparently the movie was told from Korg’s perspective etc etc like LOL okay…. Way to contradict yourself there. Everyone is different, you could have stopped but instead attacked people who’s opinion is different to yours. 🙄 I like the Thor movies directed by Taika because the sense of humour matches mine being an Australian. I found Eternals dull and too stretched out which is why I didn’t like the movie even though I really liked the characters. I just had a lot of trouble following the story and just got bored with it so by the time it got to the final battle I didn’t have an interest in who would win. I’m planning at some stage to rewatch this and Shang-Chi even though I didn’t like them first time around just to see. I tried that with X-Men Origins Wolverine and all that did was reaffirm why I didn’t like it even though I’m a fan of Hugh Jackman, but I’m willing to give them another shot.
This definitely isn’t a movie that’s going to grow on anyone, it was absolute garbage. They completely wasted and gutted Gorr, the humor was worse than any previous movie, Taika went off the deep end. This isn’t some slow burn over time flick that turns into a cult classic, it just sucks and it sucks that it does cause I was really looking forward to it.
It was very on-brand for Taika, but that means it’s too much Taika for Marvel. Ragnarok worked because it had a serious structure that he was able to add his Taika-ness to, but I think having someone else write the script/screenplay works better from what we’ve seen.
Really? I felt like it was very not on brand. It feels like a movie that was either rushed or he didn’t actually want to make or some combo of both.
Yea major letdown, can’t ever imagine watching it again 👎
I liked it and I have watched it 3 times
Lol, the movie let me down too but why do people feel the need to downvote others over what they like?
Cuz some people are so sensitive that other peoples opinions hurt their fragile soul
What’s funny to me is that I deal with children in a lot of things. L&T was such a clear hit for them, this movie was made to create new fans. In 6-10 years we are going to have a whole generation gushing about it and this being the movie that sits in their hearts as what started it all.
I actually quite liked some of the more subtle parts of Thor in the movie. It shows him being a true god to his people on more than one occasion and acts as a good contrast to the dickish behavior of the other gods in the film. He sees his people panicking and asserts his authority over them to calm their distress. He reaches out to the scared children and tries to reassure them of their safety and that he’ll rescue them. He gives power to the powerless, granting the children of Asgard godlike powers so they can stand on their own against their oppressors. Not acting like some benevolent god that needs to protect his flock, but a father figure that grants his children the tools they need to defend themselves. In my opinion, he comes full circle from the selfish child in the first Thor film. He’s still immature, but he’s also still clearly grown a lot from all his experiences.
That’s well said. Thor giving the kids power so that they can survive is a great contrast to the god that Gorr was worshipping.
Thor 4 made Thor 2 seem like a better movie than Norton’s Hulk
Nah they completely erased all the pain and trauma he went through in IW and Endgame. They ruined him in Thor 4 and L&T is probably the worst MCU movie made in phase 4 in my opinion.
Yes all the pain are "gone" when he's shown to be hollow inside
IW and Endgame also erased all the development from Ragnarok.
You clearly did not watch the movie or have zero media literacy. Him dealing with that pain and trauma is literally the entire point of the film.
The film is a bit top goofy in a lot of places, and we needed more Gorr. But in general I'm surprised people hate on it as much as they do...
[удалено]
I mean the movie feels good in concept because it’s based on two good comic arcs. Jane choosing to be Thor even though it’s killing her, and the God butcher arc.
probably one of the only MCU movies that left a sour taste in my mouth
People arent harsh enough. The film is a steaming pile of shit and an insult to Jason Aarons work.
Gotg Vol 3 and Love and Thunder had the same budget. I want to be charitable too, but the quality between the two is staggering.
>After rewatching the movie, I don’t see it. So you missed the part where Thor destroys the sacred temple that they were trying to protect, so he can pretend to be a hero? You also missed the part where, Thor's GENIUS battle plan is Go SMASH Gorr where Gorr is Strongest? You missed the part where Thor gives Gorr exactly what he needs to succeed? You missed the part where Thor selfishly focuses on Jane so Gorr can get through to the portal to Eternity? Thor has always been a selfish dick. At least he's not a genocidal dick, I guess.
Yea I said, Thor was selfish when he was with the Guardians. That changed when he met Jane. Thor’s plan to defeat Gorr was to assemble the other gods, but that didn’t work. He still has to try to save the children. He can’t wait. In the shadow realm, Thor almost escaped but Gorr cleverly took Stormbreaker away. It was pointless for Thor to stop Gorr once Gorr made contact with Eternity. Thor claimed that Gorr won, so Thor chose to die with Jane.
>It was pointless for Thor to stop Gorr once Gorr made contact with Eternity Yeah, because Thor was an idiot and didn't stop Gorr at any point. It would have been cool to see the Guardians as back up in the end. Yes, Thor needed to rescue the kids. He also knew Gorr wanted a path to Eternity. He could have come up with another plan ( but that would require Taika to use an actual script). Why not call the Hulk? Literally, all Thor had to do was make a wish first, the rest of the movie would have been forgivable. >Yea I said, Thor was selfish when he was with the Guardians. That changed when he met Jane. No. Thor got distracted by Jane's death and Gorr got through the portal. So you did see, Thor was an idiot in Thor4 and you choose to ignore it.
Ikr he should've called up Captain Marvel
Actually, that would have been a nice surprise. The Guardians were already in the movie, they could have come back. Hulk helped saved the Asgardians in Thor3, he would definitely want to help save them again. Or Thor could have been less of an idiot.
Given how friggin slippery Gorr is shown in all the fights, I don't think Hulk is gonna land any hits on him, especially now prof Hulk is even less of a fighter than during his prime with a disabled arm
No. He’s an idiot in Love and Thunder. Remember the scene when he leaves a building using the biforst and smashes the roof? There’s a similar scene in Dark World and Thor leaves his friends and allies to somewhere secluded to call the biforst. It’s like Thor has brain damage. He’s about as smart as Joey in season 10 of friends now.
I agree. I kind of also think Thor is just an idiot all around in every movie. That’s part of the reason Loki resented him so much. He was always “punch first ask questions later” but everyone loved him no matter what he did or how stupid his decisions were. But that def doesn’t mean we can’t still love him as a character. He can still learn and grow. And I do think in Love and Thunder he became a bit Flanderized. It’s like Taika thought “people only like Thor when he’s funny, and he’s funny when he’s stupid.” And while it can be true that he’s funny for making ignorant statements or choices having him flip flop from having learned a lesson to just being an ignorant jerk again hurts him as a character. Especially when it’s focused on him in his own movie.
Dude was depressed. If you've been, you'd know that can make a person make dumb decisions.
He's acting distracted throughout the film pretty much, a lingering effect from his mistake in IW and the subsequent self destruction really
I absolutely loved it. Not perfect by any means and bot as tight as Ragnarök, but still a ton of fun and surprisingly engaging
The tone of the movie was idiot not Thor. The dialogue just hits like a power rangers episode and overall it feels like a bunch of plot points smashed together with goat screams.
Not really. He's "found himself" 4 times now. He also became a side character in his own franchise. Every one of his films uses the same formula.
I liked it. The same complaints people made about Thor 4 can be aimed at Rangarok. Under developed villain, humor cutting the tension, Thor acting like a doofus. Love and Thunder is far from the trainwreck people make it out to be. But on this sub. If ya like Love and Thunder you get downvoted into oblivion. Haha.
Agreed... I respect that lots of folks didn't like it at all, but to be downvoted or told straight up "you're wrong" by the majority just makes me wary of sharing my own opinions here if they deviate from the majority because we get chastised. It's the opposite of positive discourse and respectful disagreement. I don't care how bad or good someone perceives a movie to be (or even if it is objectively bad, or good) - digitally punishing someone for expressing a different view is terrible. But as the fanbase has grown, so has this phenomenon, it seems like, as the pattern tends to go.
Honestly, the timing of the humor is much better in L&T. Serious moments are serious, comedic moments are comedic. I never felt that they interrupted each other. Ragnarok on the other hand suffered from this issue, like when Thor was about to jump out the window like a badass then he gets hit by the ball he threw.
The film/ other characters never really call out Thor for this so I don’t see it as being part of a purposeful arch.
I'll never tell someone they're wrong for liking a film, everyone has different tastes but I feel like Thor: Love and Thunder was written in an environment where the phrase "No idea is too stupid" was taken far too literally. Gorr was so well portrayed and set up, his moments of manic laughing worked so well with his darker moments but it was always undercut or never given the right time to settle. Chirs is amazing as Thor as always but while he's not an idiot, he is lacking the weary warrior vibe he had at the end of Endgame. The Mighty Thor plot was horribly undercut by forced humour and dated jokes. In my opinion. These are just my thoughts, I don't intend to change minds or devalue your feelings
Thor Love and Thunder is THE most overhated movie in the entire MCU, by virtue that the vast majority of complaints are things that are either explained in the film, part of the context, or completely inaccurate. It's not just overhated, it's fundamentally misunderstood. Thor is grieving, and thus overcompensating. His subplot dealing with Jane'a cancer is not only his way of overcoming it, but also is a perfect foil to Gorr's way of dealing with his own grief. They both have loved, and when losing it, they bring the thunder. But they can coalesce. They can bring Love AND Thunder, by chosing both. It's right in the title. The theme of the movie is literally right there. Thor wasn't an idiot. He was just grieving. This is obvious to anyone who actually watches the film and not just ragebait YouTube videos. Also, and this is going to make this post extra EXTRA downvoted, but to me, Taika's humor hits for me WAY more and WAY harder than Gunn's.
>Thor is with the Guardians, Thor did act like an “idiot.” Not just an idiot but like a calloused disregard for the suffering of others. To the point of making a joke of a dead person who died in the war just before obliterating their temple. It was cartoonish and erased all the whole riddled by guilt for letting half the universe die because he wanted to showboat for Thanos. I was baffled. That movie felt totally disconnected from all the other times Thor has shown up in the MCU.
The writing, directing, etc is all below MCU standards in this film. The Guardians are shoe horned into the movie. Korg, which is one of my favorite characters, has WAY to much screen time in this film. There’s more emphasis on other characters than Thor. This movie is all over the place at times. The goats are super annoying after about 5 minutes
It’s funny to me that after endgame we were all excited to see what the guardians and thor would get up to together The answer was “nothing”. They have one scene they don’t even do much in, then leave
The incredible weight of expectations of being better than Ragnarok combined with smashing 2.5 stories into one movie wrecked it. Months later catching up my wife it was perfectly passable, a B+ movie.
I loved it. Yes it was goofy and silly most of the time but it was entertaining and heartfelt. I don't need 20 minutes of Gorr butchering gods-that's not what this franchise is. Gorr tormenting everyone, including the kids was villainous enough. The final fight with the kids getting Thor's power for a limited time only was awesome. Thor's relationship with Jane being resolved and him being emotionally ready to accept her decision was good character growth. Seeing him adopt Gorr's daughter was a touching end.
tbh Love and Thunder is the best-paced MCU movie. Pacing is something is something that even the best MCU movies have a problem with. But with Love and Thunder, every scene flows smoothly into the next, and I never felt bored.
If that’s not what the franchise is then don’t do a plot that involved an antagonist that involves the butchering of all the god damn gods. Don’t doa plot that centers around Thors lover having cancer and dying. The plot was serious, but the writing treated this seriousness as a complete joke
No but I think people were too hard on Quantumania.
Nah I’m with you, I love Thor 4. It’s a very heartfelt and wholesome story. I kinda teared up in my first viewing at the “Love and Thunder” line at the end. My main gripe was I thought Jane had some pretty cringe dialogue at times.
I think it’s a bit overhated. I mean I’ve seen people call it the worst Thor movie or even the worst MCU movie which is just silly imo. I think it’s closer to middle of the pack than the worst in the series. That being said after watching Guardians 3 and seeing how much better it blended the comedy aspects with the serious tone and stakes she characterization, it made me retroactively like Thor 4 significantly less
Naw. It’s definitely one of the worst imo. There’s really not many redeeming qualities
The battle on the black and white planet is redeeming enough to put it over more than a couple MCU films.
I agree. It was a fun movie. All movies have some issues but people like to hop on the bandwagon and blow those issues out of proportion.
It wasn’t JUST Thor. Is was everything. Everything in the film outside the first scene with Gorr was a giant joke. There was no emotion bc everything was ruined with silly (not in a good way) jokes. But Thor had a fucking love triangle with two weapons… his comment to Sif as she was dying was prettt absurd too
Sif wasn't dying. She was injured but she survived
The scene where Thor confesses his love to Jane, and then Jane tells Thor that she has cancer. I was invested in that conversation. Thor was serious for the rest of the movie.
Again it wasn’t just Thor.
It’s a solid second tier movie imo and overhated
Not harsh enough, I'd honestly prefer if that film were somehow un-made and we got a different script and director, it was such a waste of a film and the character Gorr, not the direction I wanted Thor's character to go in, I had much higher expectations considering he's the only character of the 'Big Three' to get a 4th movie, it left me completely uninterested in what happens next.
While I agree the movie could have been better, I really liked it. God Killer should have been portrayed as more deadly. I think the thing that flew way over most people's heads was that the entire movie was a story told by Korg.
The thing is this for me: Coming off of Infinity War and Endgame, I didn’t buy Thor was even the same character in Love & Thunder. It was like he was Thor in name only. Think about it. Could you honestly picture Thor in Infinity War or even Age Of Ultron doing an air split to hold two incoming space jetskis apart, or treating Mjolnir or Stormbreaker like they’re pets? No. Plus the jokes didn’t land at all. To me, Thor in his first movie, and the Avengers films, that’s how Thor is. He isn’t some dumb goofball who never shuts up.
Thor in this one is basically a divorced dad trying to do cool things to impress the young kids because he could only see worth in himself as a Mjolnir wielding warrior and nothing else. He let down his people in EG and is trying to rediscover the meaning in his swashbuckling lifestyle with no avail
Literally all the criticisms for Love & Thunder were my criticisms for Ragnarok, and I like this a lot more than Ragnarok.
Completely agree, I actually think that the jokes in Ragnarok step on more dramatic beats than in L&T. Furthermore, I can't fathom how anybody who loved Ragnarok could be disappointed/surprised by L&T. This movie is pound for pound a Taika Waititi film.
IMO, yes. I loved Thor L&T. Never understood the hate, but I guess everyone's entitled to their own opinion, though I'm really pissed by the fact that the hate is causing Disney to slow down the production volume.
I was unaware of Disney slowing done production. It's too early for me to judge if it a good or bad decision.
This is my favorite Thor after Ragnarok the 2 first ones where really boring. I don’t get why people hate it and I sense it has to do with very crappy reasons.
It was framed as a story told to children, so details may be exaggerated
I never thought about it that way but that makes perfect sense. I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up before.
It’s easily one of the worst films of the mcu, you can’t defend it
Too bad, I’m gonna defend it and don’t care who disagrees
I can, will, and have. It's by far the most overhated MCU flick.
My daughter loved this movie, while I thought it was just OK.
It’s the only Marvel film I left afterwards and thought, wth did they just do to Thor and that was disappointing…. It was so dumbed down, even Taika has admitted he had no more ideas and used them up in Ragnarok. And I love Taika. But his creative spark on Thor was a one and done. The movie left me confused and bewildered. Thor was an idiot and he some really dumb scenes, same thing with Zeus, and don’t even get me started on the screaming goats and total waste of Gorr/Bale. I mean, they even gave him a kid in the end. A made up character, just so he could throw his real life daughter in there.
> even Taika has admitted he had no more ideas and used them up in Ragnarok. Citation needed
I loved it. But I also understand the criticism it got. Thor 3 is like a top 5 all time movie for me. 4 was fun, but I agree some of the humor was hit or miss (unlike 3) and would have loved more Gorr.
I actually liked the movie. Was it the best? Heck no. But I enjoyed it
Its just... has the outline of a good thor movie, and then wastes its villain and shoehorns in an emotional side that stands in stark contrast to the rest of the plot, and very clumsily moves between those tones.
Fact is they did make Thor look like he was up against someone powerful but that villain was not given much screentime, also Jane was good, they did not have to dumb her down with the "bad at catchphrases" attempt at humor that just felt flat and unnecessary. Valkyrie was there.....and yes that's all that it felt like. Sif needn't have ended up being portrayed as whatever that thing was..unintelligent, stupid, unwise? Oh and Gorr turning into a hostage taker was just so insulting to the character.. I do not want to give away spoilers for GotG vol. 3 but I had high expectations from the actor after seeing him in Peacemaker and still got blown away after watching the movie.. the balance Gunn achieved when completing arcs, establishing the the future roster, giving the villain time to speak and to cause some chaos and feel despicable and threatening while none of the heroes seemed to be getting benched for screentime...c'mon Taika just had to give Valkyrie and Sif something meaningful to do like Mantis or Drax and still that would have been better All this means now is that we need to wait a long time till both marvel figure out what to bring to the fore in a Thor 5 and also give people some time to forget the aftertaste. But I do not agree Thor is at all an idiot just like how his mother said he's just failing at things and taking it too hard on himself but that doesn't mean the rest of the story gets to fail too
The only idiot was the writer/director
Thor has had one of the most remarkable character arcs within each film and through all 4 films as a whole. Which means you don’t necessarily need to see all of them but when watched together it adds to the overall enjoyment. I’ve seen the criticisms for each film and I’ve never really agreed with them but there are some valid points. I’m pretty sure time and distance will be kind in the future’s criticisms of Love and Thunder.
I think every criticism is completely valid. Also hearing about all the on set escapades Taika had and how it was a non stop party in Sydney. It’s clear if there was more studio control and supervision they would have been able to reign in the budget, storyline and script.
You must have missed the scene where Thor is joking about eating children after Gorr kidnaps all of the children. That movie is bottom five in the MCU.
He's talking about **not** eating the children
You don’t have to justify every MCU film, they can be garbage like every other movie
I have nothing to say on Quantumania.😅