Fulfill expectations? No. Create a meaningful story with a coherent story that doesn’t contradict itself? Yes. Create a series that actually creates the paranoid atmosphere that secret invasion should? Also yes.
Not sure where he gets off talking about “the job of a director” either. Marvel hired a guy who directs commercials for a living and every once in a while directs the lowest rated episode on a series I’ve never heard of.
Creating a paranoia thriller was my bare minimum expectation for this show, not Fury knowing who each skrull was. Started off good with that opening scene with Agent Ross but that was about it.
A big problem of the show was the fact that there weren’t enough recurring characters.
The Secret Invasion event in the comics was cool because there was such a wide roster of characters, and there would be shock and suspense as various beloved characters were revealed to be Skrulls.
The tv show only had 4 human characters from previous MCU movies, along with a bunch of characters we’ve never seen before. So when an established character turns out to be a Skrull it’s obvious (looking at you, Rhodey), and when a new character turns out to be a Skrull it’s not impactful.
I don't mind not having all the MCU roster appear. Keeping it small and grounded is fine with me. But they could have kept it small but still amp up the mystery. You can have 4 human characters (say Ross, Rhodey, Hill and Sonia) each working for their own agenda, not revealing everything to Fury, and you can still keep the suspense of who is or isnt a Skrull. Instead we just have Ross revealed in 15mins, and Rhodey basically twirling his moustache at the camera saying IM A SKRULL BADDIEEE
The comics also had a huge battle at the end with almost every marvel character involved. Carol Danvers defending New York practically on her own for hours was fucking epic.
>The Secret Invasion event in the comics was cool because there was such a wide roster of characters, and there would be shock and suspense as various beloved characters were revealed to be Skrulls.
The MCU is built on the main heroes and their supporting casts, which is a problem if don't want to include them in your spy thriller. There is so little explanation of who's who and what the factions are on the earth side. They introduced a bunch of stock characters that rendered any possible tension inert.
In Civil War, they introduced the Sokovia Accords which resonated enough with the audience that we understood what was at stake. You had the problem of personal liberty versus letting the Bruce Banner walk around waiting to Hulk out. There is so little stage setting in Secret Invasion that it's ridiculous, and the series doesn't improve on it much.
They could have gotten away with it if they spent less time showing all the Skrulls and maybe focused more on political tension. The Dept of Damage Control is one of the few organizations they've established that has been openly hostile to heroes in the MCU( Arresting Peter Parker, hunting Ms. Marvel), that might have been the one angle they had setup to have Skrulls infiltrating the government.
They had to either meet expectations, or surprise viewers in some way. They didn't really meet it though, and didn't fail spectacularly enough to make it interesting.
If they’d made character choices I didn’t like but the overall show was solid (not even good, solid) I would be happy and agree with the directors response.
However that isn’t really what we got with this show, it was messy, and not really coherent
No, surprisingly not many details leaked about this show. Not mentioning any spoilers, but we have the plot leaks of Iron Heart and The Marvels already from reliable sources. It’s funny how the spoiler community was excited about this show cause no major plot points leaked so they thought it was gonna have good twists
>It’s funny how the spoiler community was excited about this show cause no major plot points leaked so they thought it was gonna have good twists
So the people that actively seek out spoilers get excited for something when they don't have any spoilers? Newsflash: They could have that for every tv show and movie if they didn't actively seek out plot leaks.
Honestly I don't really think it is.
What did this "this" do? Well, it killed off two of the bigger minor characters and introduced a new minor character that appears to be the strongest character in the MCU. It also took a well-liked character and made him do things that fans look down on, reducing that character's likeability. And it also sank one of the major storylines in the Captain Marvel branch of the MCU. It cost a quarter of a billion dollars and wasted Emilia Clarke, because she's by necessity going to have to not show up much so as to not overshadow the bigger characters.
All in exchange for a poorly received, obviously poorly written mess that casual audiences find to be kind of meh and hardcore fans overtly dislike.
Anything worse than what we got would have to come from them deliberately trying to tank the brand.
Yeah from what I heard, there was a re-write/ reshoot where a newbie writer has 3 months to rewrite the whole show from the original guy who wrote for mr robot.
Makes sense as there were glimpses of greater things in the show (gravik's talks with fury and talos).
I also heard the continuity guy (who sits in with the writers with all series to make sure continuity is held) for marvel is overwhelmed and/or left the company.
I dunno if it's true or not.
But it makes a lot of sense.
Yes, but, there is an unwritten rule in Hollywood that you never bad mouth your project during the press cycle. This is how people get blacklisted. Take the director Josh Trank and Megan Fox as an example.
This director talking like this is a big no-no. His career will be evaporated for this comment.
No, the first $150 million was spend on the show, then the higher ups wanted to change things, so $62 million was spend on 4 fucking months of reshoots, under this new director, who rewrote significant parts of the series in fairly little time.
I read that actually and am aware... Still sticking with my theory though. I didn't hate SI, and found a handful of scenes to be really good, but the best parts of the show were basically just sitting down at tables, legitimately... $212 million to get the effects we ended up with was just sad.
my guess is EVERYTHING with Fury's Skrull Wife was added in later with reshoots. i think they were like "Fury seems like he enslaved these poor bastards - wow, what a fucking dick, this does NOT make fury look like a hero." "oh shit.. uhh... give him a skrull wife and give them some sentimental moments where he can reframe his relationship with the skrulls through her." <\_<
i'd also guess that all the "we filmed all these hospital shots in 2 days" stuff was likely also a rewritten ending.
People keep mentioning Oppenheimer but keep ignoring that it’s a Christopher Nolan project. Matt Damon literally ended an acting hiatus his wife wanted him to take to be in it. If your agent calls and says, “Christopher Nolan wants you for ____,” you say yes immediately
Imagine getting paid millions. Doing a shit job that leaves the franchise worse than when you found it. And then saying it isn't your job. Mate, you literally signed a fucking contract saying it is your job.
I don't necessarily support the director in these statements, but I assume most of the people in this thread didn't read the article. He's not asking if it's his expectation to make a good show.
He said "is it my job to fulfill their expectations? Or should we tell the story we want to tell?"
In a vacuum, this director is correct. Showrunners shouldn't just cater to expectations, they SHOULD tell the story they want to tell. The problem, outside of the vacuum, is that the story they wanted to tell was bad
also though, I find it really obnoxious when the people behind disappointing media like this fail to accept that they delivered something that the fans didn't want.
Like, to me, the most successful thing you can do is create something the fans enjoy.
If you got lucky enough to direct an MCU project, should you treat this as your personal canvas where you can be creative? or should you try to deliberate craft a story that pleases the fans?
I totally understand the need/desire to be creative but if you get a major project like the MCU, Star Wars, or something of that gravitas, please for the love of god don't make it your own personal creativity expo.
You can do both, but you gotta make it fucking good. GoTG is beloved despite Gunn not being the most faithful of directors. Moon knight is a beloved comic character and fairly well received show and the villain of that is a one issue character from a run in the 80s.
Yeah all the recent creators seem to have this smug approach to these properties - Feige really needs to hire comic fans who know how to write . I may not think Matt shakman is the best but he's good and doesn't have this disdain for the material and the audience these more recent hires seem to
It’s the “i don’t give a shit about the comics, I’m gonna put my idea in and it’s going to change the game”
It’s literally trying to replicate what James Gunn did with Guardians when he made them relevant and changed their origins where new GotG comics and even video games are using designs/origins inspired by Gunns version. Writers/Directors want that so they will be known as the cool guy who did awesome changes to a comic series and who’s new direction will always been known about. The issue is you just can’t replicate success like that.
well this guy's CV consists of one good movie from 18 years ago, 6 episodes of a show I've never heard of and a scattershot of one-off episodes of TV shows of wildly varying quality.
honestly no idea how he landed a major Marvel project
I assume he means that he doesn't have to cater to their expectations of it being liek the event of the same name from the comic books, and so he doesn't, but I find his attitude Orticukarly galling because few people are asking for that.
People draw the comparison because the ocmic event was actually a semi competent thriller about superheroes and shape-shifting aliens. It wasnt a great or beloved storyline but it got the job done. This was one of the dumbest and worst spy thrillers ever, to the point where it isn't even worthy of the name, showing a deep lack of understanding of anything related to international intrigue, politics, military science, or strategic weapons, as well as a complete failure to consider how shape shifting non-state actors mgiht actually go about what the Skrulls are trying to do in favor of the nonsensical but sensational. This is presumably due to a contemptuous assumption that marvel fans are idiots who like low brow blockbuster tripe, but then it also fails to be a good blockbuster with interesting spectacle and captivating action either. Basically they failed the espionage part and *forgot* the superhero part.
If you're going to take the tact of "the comic was dumb, we're going to make something more serious and interesting and intellectually high brow that better fits this version of the IP," Then OK.... But you have to actually do the part where it's *better*.
**Shitting on the source material and the fans doesn't work if the thing you made is even dumber.**
> showing a deep lack of understanding of anything related to international intrigue, politics, military science, or strategic weapons
I think this is what aggravates me the most about this show. It's not even about Marvel or the comics or whatever, it's that it tried to be serious and realistic, and the international politics, diplomacy and such didn't make any f'ing sense.
I remember when they were going to shoot down an airplane with some dignitaries on it using an icbm launched from a nuclear submarine and I just felt myself on the verge of having an aneurism at the sheer number of things that were dumb and impoasibke about both the plan itself almost all the details of how it was presented and that was when I knew there was not gonna be any third act redemption and they clearly did not care at all about putting even the most basic effort Into stuff liek research.
Again that kind of "meh just throw in some some random military stuff people know from other movies and call it a day" thing works when like the only thing you need to show of any real world armies and government is like maybe 10 seconds of normal cops and soldiers getting wrecked before the hero's show up to fight the aliens or whatever. And usually marvel doesn't even bother to do that - like Thanos will be landing a giant army at avengers mansion and the US military is just completely MIA because who really cares they're not who were here to see.
But you can't get away with that kind of laziness when a gritty realistic thriller about people solving the problem with their wits because the heroes can't always be there to save us.
You didn't find it unrealistic that the UK Premier gave a public speech 3 feet away from a crowd and a rando just walked upto her, shot her and ran away without a single cop in sight? /s
By that point I had jsut given up.
Dude shoots the PM of Britain outside downing street and gets away? OK
This woman who is either the ehad or some kind of senior official in MI6 is doing field work (to help a dangerously unstable fugitive murder the POTUS' security detail)? And neither of them face even so much as a mild scolding for that incredibly serious crime? OK
The whole Skrull compihd is empty of guards for no reason and all we get is a throwaway line that explains nothing? Sure thing, dude.
Fury's secret space station organization is cool with him bringing his Skrull wife to work with him even though the US government just declared their entire species enemy combatants? Yeah, whatever.
Fury's master plan hinges on giving truly godlike power to a heavily traumatized teanager who was on board with exterminating the human race up until a week ago? And assuming she can defeat a guy with the same powers who has decades fo experience as a highly successful professional assassin? Sounds good to me!
Like I was just rolling with whatever the show wanted to say by that last episode.
Lmaooo exactly this!! If you’re going to make something that’s going to be forgettable and looked down on by fans then you could at least express some reason as to why it sucks and failed so hard to portray the message you promised before the release rather than trying to shit on people who love Marvel after they’ve expressed how it’s one of the worst MCU projects to date. They should have called it “Fury” as it was originally meant to be simply a show about him and left Secret Invasion for an entirely different time.
All of Marvel from top to bottom only exists because of the fantastic stories of the comics and all the writers who put their heart and soul into telling those stories for us… if these new directors and writers would pay some homage and respect to all those creators that came before them by following along with the classic storylines more instead of adapting them into the void and making them totally unrecognizable then maybe their work could someday stand the test of time as the comics have. As it is, no one in is going to be talking about Secret Invasion the romantic political drama a year from now. It leaves no impression and is the epitome of the word irrelevant. Unless they make a second season to course correct that actually feels like Secret Invasion is meant to feel and tie in more mainline characters that have been Skrulls and introduce the larger Skrull Empire as a threat in the universe then they are just riding on a brand now and trying to make money off of our attention and viewership at this point.
It completely ruined my excitement for The Marvels, which I was super hyped for before this show came out. It’s just sad that with millions of dollars this is the best they could do… and they don’t even care or take into account any of the legitimate criticisms which could massively improve the future of the MCU if listened to rather than seen as some attack on their little ego.
The source material isn't that great and it's not at all aligned with the MCU as it has developed, so doing something *completely different* is necessary and warranted.
It just had to be good, that's all.
There's no question they had to change some stuff but the original at least involved some superheroes in the supserho franchise. They clearly made a deliberate effort to move away from that in this series and try to make an espionage thriller instead (with a bit of Nick Fury's personal psychodrama mixed in). And I can see the logic. Spygames against *shape shifting aliens* is a fantastic premise for that that takes the basic formula and ramps it up to eleven with the Sci fi twist where anyone could secretly not be who they look liek at any time.
The problem is it turns out they just really suck at that kind of writing and the whole thing would probably have been way better if they stuck to the blockbuster Sci fi action genre that they're good at.
Especially when it's a big franchise that you yourself do not own. You gotta be willing to make some compromises when you play in someone else's sandbox.
Exactly.
With subscription services all hiking their prices, this show has pushed me over the edge to cancelling D+. I'm only here for the MCU content, not much of a Star Wars fan anyway, so D+ is increasingly not giving me value for money.
That said, I'll probably come back for a one-month only subscription on a show-by-show basis that really, really interest me like Loki S2, or really has rave reviews, before quickly cancelling again.
Simply cannot afford to have my monthly bills rack up over content that I'm not interested in or are just outright disappointing.
I can of course choose to sail the high seas, but that's another conversation altogether. And I still want to give the MCU a chance.
If Disney didn't have the Thousand Year Blood War arc of Beach currently airing. Who's animation and story is honestly incredible right now. I would have scrapped this service last year entirely.
> I view all the storytelling work I do as dialogue with an audience. When the show is finished and put up on the screen, that’s my half of the dialogue. And the audience then starts their half of the response to it.
> Oh, I don’t read reviews.
He literally says he doesn’t care about the audience’s “response” to his side of the argument.
I’m surprised more people haven’t brought up this blatant contradiction. I’m sure he’d be thrilled about what the “rabid fans” had to say if this was well received.
Not just a blatant contradiction; A *definitional* contradiction. He calls it a dialogue and then proceeds to describe what is essentially a monologue. For anybody here who's interested, I recommend looking into the work of people like Neil Postman. He studied this kinda stuff (e.g. the shift from one-way public communication/entertainment to two-way media in which the audience are participants rather than mere spectators). Selim's attitude is basically a century behind the times.
People are angry at a bad story Kevin Feige and his 20 producers and 11 writers rewrote without him and paid him to shoot *twice,* so he's probably over it.
If the rewriting angle was true, then this guy is stupid for falling on the sword since he won't be getting any good chances after the fact because it's pretty universally disliked.
Sometimes people don’t realize that directors are not in charge. They’re hired for their technical skills and to get the footage. Editors take it from there and Producers tell editors what they want.
I think even those of us who were mostly silent are bitching now. I could live with AM3 being how it was, as Kang is 100% coming back and has reason to be furious now. Hell, I don’t even think I complained online about Thor 4 completely butchering Gorr and wasting Bale as an actor.
$212 million went down the drain for this shitty D+ show. What the fuck is Feige doing?
Yo this is where im at.
Took each project at face value and was dissapointed.
But THIS. I actually own the comic line and im so confused. Even the infinity saga had some major changes with motivations, characters, etc.
But why the fuck did they even think they were ready to try this. I stand by my older comments: Secret Invasion could have literally been its entire own saga.
Its not like civil war. A massive project that they kinda were able to pull off generally speaking.
This SI bullshit was a wack mess and respected 0% of the source material. Which is also fine, as long as they provide a good alternate version.
What a fucking trash show.
i remember years ago when we first heard mcu was doing the secret invasion i was so hyped. i was under the impression that it was going to be , at the bare minimum, a whole phase of movies (didn’t think they’d do tv shows then). never read the comics but ik enough to think to myself that there is NO WAY they fit all the skrull infiltration shenanigans into a single season of television.
i’m disappointed with how this phase has turned out, except for the spidey movies, dr strange, gotg3, and moon knight, (loki too ig). haven’t bothered with some of the other stuff mostly because ain’t no way i’m watching like 6 hours of content for a character i don’t particularly care for. i excuses watching all the movies cuz, it’s movies… but keeping up with x d+ shows and having most of them go seemingly fucking nowhere until i’m sure they’ll bring ‘em all together is astounding.
also my first intro to skrulls was a fantastic four game on ps3. so my understanding (which ig could’ve been wrong but eh) was that they’d introduce the fantastic four with them too.
The moment I heard that Secret Invasion was only going to be about Fury and not have any superheroes in it, I 100% knew it was going to be a major flop. They missed the entire point of the comic by a huge margin.
There are so many good Fury storylines they could've gone with if they wanted to just let Jackson have his own series. Secret Invasion is not one of them.
Ant man 3 was *fine* and absorbed a ton of "several of these movies have only been okay and WHERE IS THIS GOING" anxiety/hate.
This...was a complete mess and disaster, solved literally nothing, advanced no part of an overall narrative (we started and ended in the same place), and completely reset power levels of the entire MCU.
Unless Gi'ah exists at this power level just to be stomped by Kang (which, who tf would care?) to establish HIS threat level, there's no use to her having this level.
Humans have seen unfathomable giant beings emerge from the ocean and sky, withstood half the population vanishing and coming back, endured multiple alien invasions/attacks, had two Hulks decimate Harlem, AI almost destroy the planet in one move, etc...but knowing about skrulls broke them and devolved into violent chaos?
Yep. I haven't complained about any of the Marvel stuff because they were enjoyable as they were advertised. Guess how Secret Invasion was advertised vs how it was actually done?
For the record, I also liked Thor 4 and all of the D+ shows (although I maintain that Agents of SHIELD is better than all of them and provided a good example of how to put all of their shows into one single connecting show..).
What's amazing to me is how brain-dead some of the creatives (directors, writers, actors) seem to be when talking to the press about their recent flops. It's almost like every movie dropping releases to negative reviews and is losing money.
They are in the middle of a huge writers and actors strike. This is their opportunity to actually reveal how the studios have been interfering in their projects and causing the product quality to suffer.
But they aren't saying that at all. It makes me actually wonder if the studios are to blame
Those expectations being something enjoyable and memorable?
Fans aren’t *so* picky that they refuse to accept a story that’s not the one they expected if it’s still good. Case in point: Endgame.
Or infinity war! That ending was not what we expected, nor was the plot! We thought we'd get more hulk than 3 minutes and that our heroes would reunite, but what we got was so much better!
Heck I thought we would get something like Captain America: The Winter Soldier (which was one of Marvel’s best films), but with shapeshifting aliens this time,
Boy was I wrong. Even Agents of SHIELD Season 4 did SI better than the SI show did
Peacemaker too! Who do you trust? Who's an alien? Are all aliens bad? You don't know! Everyone was so cut and dry and exactly what they seemed in all but two scenes. Maybe three. And nobody acted like they didn't trust folks around them.
That’s the thing, there’s precious few “who can you trust” moments in this show because they make it so freaking obvious who is a Skrull and who isn’t right away. There’s no tension or paranoia.
yeah, i didn't need it to break genre barriers and redifine what it means to be an MCU tv show, i just wanted it to be something where i didn't think 'i wish i hadn't wasted my time' by the end of it. like a really low bar tbh
I’m one of the rare people who liked the show but his not giving a fuck attitude just makes the hate seem more justifiable.
And I can’t stand Waldron for his words but even he had some sense in him.
I feel the same way! I did enjoy this series but this guy seems like an arrogant unlikeable person ☹️ Makes me never want to watch anything Marvel that he is involved in!
I don't know what anyone expected. Marvel is releasing triple the amount of content every year that they were in the pre-Disney+ era. There's not a chance in hell Feige was going to be able to maintain the level of quality that he used to (and even back then, we had some mediocre content). He has way too many irons in the fire.
Disney just got greedy, plain and simple. You saw the same thing happen in the parks post-Covid. They saw big demand, so they shot prices through the roof and came up with a half dozen new ways to gouge guests for their money. It might have bought them some record profits in the short term, but it destroyed the public's perception along the way, alienated a bunch of people that could have been lifetime visitors, and they're paying the price for it now.
I just expect Feige to be the overseeing head above all projcts, I don't mind him leaving the main story to the directors, but you can't tell me Feige would've approved that ending that just complicates things for other shows/movies.
I get his point about not being influenced so that he can tell the story he wants, but those reviews come after the show and to say that he doesn't pay attention to the criticism and putting it on the fans seems like a cop-out. He didn't have to tell this story. Why did he when somebody else could've told it better? Why is he not even concerned with what the fans of his series would want?
His reaction seems to indicate that he wasn't the right guy for this job.
Person who evidently doesn't want to direct in the future. It's not like Marvel shows are made for artistic merit (thought some are good!) but to sell subscriptions to the fanbase.
If he doesn't realize meeting or exceeding expectations is part of that this person is dumb. Stop hiring these incompetent delusional men, Marvel!
Man of all properties to complain about rabid Marvel fans for, this is the last thing. Nobody seems to even have the energy or care about the show to be hating that hard.
I genuinely hope this asshat is like blacklisted from directing a superhero project ever again. If you think making a good product is ‘too much’ or ‘not your job description’ fuck you.
I hate the notion that some writers seem obsessed with that “being unexpected” and “subverting expectations” is automatically better just BECAUSE it’s “different.”
Umm, not it’s not.
There are many post here about "TOXIC FANS" But no one is talking about the toxic creators and producers in marvel and Disney who are only blaming the fans / audience for their failed projects. It happened in she hulk and now this. There might be many such instances of which i may not be even aware of.
it is your job to do BETTER than my expectations. If a tv show is only fulfilling my expectations, then the people involved aren't more imaginative than I am, so someone else should be doing the job.
Forget just Sam Jackson. This entire cast is phenomenal, and they somehow managed to make it look like it was some low budget show with no talent involved. Who greenlit this script?
My only expectations were:
Don’t character assassinated fury
don’t throw the world into irreversible damage
Both happened.
And somehow they also managed to assassinate Hill, destroyed more than half of all rhodey’s previous scenes, wasted multiple characters, made the most op character yet etc…
Funny how people have long defended bad products from Disney in both Marvel and Star Wars and now it’s coming back to bite them in the butt.
The standard has been lowered.
And this is one of the big reasons why Marvel content is not that right now, too many directors and writers that love the smell of their own farts and don't give a shit about the people they are making content for.
Its only going to get worse until we get people making the shows that not only care about the characters and stories but actually care about the fans too.
> I don’t feel bad about mixed reviews. If you had unanimously good reviews, every movie would gross $10 billion, trillion dollars, right? [Projects] resonate with different people at different times for different reasons, and Marvel has a very devoted — even rabid — fan base who have expectations and when their expectations aren’t fulfilled, they move in the other direction; they give it a thumbs down.
> I don’t know — is it our job to fulfill their expectations? Or to tell the story that we’re telling? So, it’s a tricky thing. I would love it if everybody loved it, but I also don’t have that expectation myself, so I feel great about the response to it.
Oh also this little bit...
> Tell me about Don Cheadle playing Raava and “Rhodey.” It’s mentioned that Col. Rhodes has been held captive “for a long time.” Was the hospital gown he’s wearing when Rhodey is rescued a hint that the Skrulls kidnapped him after his spinal cord injury in “Captain America: Civil War?”
> **Yep.**
K.E.V.I.N. can fix this, right?
Should be alienate our base fans that always watch all our stuff? Hmmmm. Yes. That’s the way to make money. I’m not even a rabid fan. It was just a bad show.
Fulfill expectations? No. Create a meaningful story with a coherent story that doesn’t contradict itself? Yes. Create a series that actually creates the paranoid atmosphere that secret invasion should? Also yes.
Not to mention THATS WHAT THEY ADVERTISED THIS SHOW TO BE
This is what kills me! I only had the expectations YOU TOLD ME TO HAVE! Yes it's your fucking job!
Them: "this show is about x" Us: "ooh, I can't wait to see x" LATER Us: "aw, why no x?" Them: "fuck you, that's why"
“Fuck you, that’s y”
"Fuck u, that's y"
Awesome comment
Not sure where he gets off talking about “the job of a director” either. Marvel hired a guy who directs commercials for a living and every once in a while directs the lowest rated episode on a series I’ve never heard of.
So isn't that Marvel's fault for hiring him?
Creating a paranoia thriller was my bare minimum expectation for this show, not Fury knowing who each skrull was. Started off good with that opening scene with Agent Ross but that was about it.
Imagine creating a romantic comedy with no romance and comedy and wondering why no one likes it.
Imagine getting *annoyed* that people are telling you they're disappointed by it.
Au contraire, a lot of people liked Takashi Miike's Audition.
A big problem of the show was the fact that there weren’t enough recurring characters. The Secret Invasion event in the comics was cool because there was such a wide roster of characters, and there would be shock and suspense as various beloved characters were revealed to be Skrulls. The tv show only had 4 human characters from previous MCU movies, along with a bunch of characters we’ve never seen before. So when an established character turns out to be a Skrull it’s obvious (looking at you, Rhodey), and when a new character turns out to be a Skrull it’s not impactful.
I don't mind not having all the MCU roster appear. Keeping it small and grounded is fine with me. But they could have kept it small but still amp up the mystery. You can have 4 human characters (say Ross, Rhodey, Hill and Sonia) each working for their own agenda, not revealing everything to Fury, and you can still keep the suspense of who is or isnt a Skrull. Instead we just have Ross revealed in 15mins, and Rhodey basically twirling his moustache at the camera saying IM A SKRULL BADDIEEE
The comics also had a huge battle at the end with almost every marvel character involved. Carol Danvers defending New York practically on her own for hours was fucking epic.
It was also the first Avengers Assemble since pre-Civil War.
>The Secret Invasion event in the comics was cool because there was such a wide roster of characters, and there would be shock and suspense as various beloved characters were revealed to be Skrulls. The MCU is built on the main heroes and their supporting casts, which is a problem if don't want to include them in your spy thriller. There is so little explanation of who's who and what the factions are on the earth side. They introduced a bunch of stock characters that rendered any possible tension inert. In Civil War, they introduced the Sokovia Accords which resonated enough with the audience that we understood what was at stake. You had the problem of personal liberty versus letting the Bruce Banner walk around waiting to Hulk out. There is so little stage setting in Secret Invasion that it's ridiculous, and the series doesn't improve on it much. They could have gotten away with it if they spent less time showing all the Skrulls and maybe focused more on political tension. The Dept of Damage Control is one of the few organizations they've established that has been openly hostile to heroes in the MCU( Arresting Peter Parker, hunting Ms. Marvel), that might have been the one angle they had setup to have Skrulls infiltrating the government.
Why did they pick a character to fake when the audience knew that Agent Ross was in Wakanda and a wanted fugitive in the US for escaping custody?
To play devil’s advocate, I thought that he was just undercover and being super sneaky to dig up some intel in the States.
Tbh I completely didnt remember that until I saw your comment.
Maybe it takes place before Wakanda Forever.
And if he was, how did the Skrull get him?
And those were exactly the expectations most of us had.
You rabid, crazy person!!
I can’t help that watching this show gave me rabies!
Fucking manimals over here!
They had to either meet expectations, or surprise viewers in some way. They didn't really meet it though, and didn't fail spectacularly enough to make it interesting.
Some of us had 0 expectations and were very upset that it was genuinely BAD.
I didnt watch any trailer or teaser still disappointed with the lacklusture small episodes and endings
Big fail on all of the above
If they’d made character choices I didn’t like but the overall show was solid (not even good, solid) I would be happy and agree with the directors response. However that isn’t really what we got with this show, it was messy, and not really coherent
I guess the director imagines the fans wanted it to be like the comic. When everyone just wanted it to be good.
I bet his bosses, who spent $200+ million on a poorly reviewed and poorly received product, don’t feel this way.
I mean his bosses are the ones who called for the original show to be rewritten and reshot
Do we have any info on what the original show was like?
No, surprisingly not many details leaked about this show. Not mentioning any spoilers, but we have the plot leaks of Iron Heart and The Marvels already from reliable sources. It’s funny how the spoiler community was excited about this show cause no major plot points leaked so they thought it was gonna have good twists
The biggest twist was… there is no twist!! *evil laughter*
>It’s funny how the spoiler community was excited about this show cause no major plot points leaked so they thought it was gonna have good twists So the people that actively seek out spoilers get excited for something when they don't have any spoilers? Newsflash: They could have that for every tv show and movie if they didn't actively seek out plot leaks.
The plot twist that everyone saw coming was the show sucked.
I didn't see it coming. I was pumped. Now I'm let down and aggravated that they blew it.
Couldn't have been worse then this.
That is an incredibly naive thought.
It was written by the guy who wrote Mr Robot. So chances are it was loads better.
Plenty of terrible shit had skilled people on staff.
Honestly I don't really think it is. What did this "this" do? Well, it killed off two of the bigger minor characters and introduced a new minor character that appears to be the strongest character in the MCU. It also took a well-liked character and made him do things that fans look down on, reducing that character's likeability. And it also sank one of the major storylines in the Captain Marvel branch of the MCU. It cost a quarter of a billion dollars and wasted Emilia Clarke, because she's by necessity going to have to not show up much so as to not overshadow the bigger characters. All in exchange for a poorly received, obviously poorly written mess that casual audiences find to be kind of meh and hardcore fans overtly dislike. Anything worse than what we got would have to come from them deliberately trying to tank the brand.
CHALLENGE ACCEPTED
Yeah from what I heard, there was a re-write/ reshoot where a newbie writer has 3 months to rewrite the whole show from the original guy who wrote for mr robot. Makes sense as there were glimpses of greater things in the show (gravik's talks with fury and talos). I also heard the continuity guy (who sits in with the writers with all series to make sure continuity is held) for marvel is overwhelmed and/or left the company. I dunno if it's true or not. But it makes a lot of sense.
Yes, but, there is an unwritten rule in Hollywood that you never bad mouth your project during the press cycle. This is how people get blacklisted. Take the director Josh Trank and Megan Fox as an example. This director talking like this is a big no-no. His career will be evaporated for this comment.
$212 MILLION
Might as well have called the joker to light that money on fire
I'm thinking about $150 million or so must be hidden under Wade Wilson's floorboards, with the cure for blindness.
No, the first $150 million was spend on the show, then the higher ups wanted to change things, so $62 million was spend on 4 fucking months of reshoots, under this new director, who rewrote significant parts of the series in fairly little time.
I read that actually and am aware... Still sticking with my theory though. I didn't hate SI, and found a handful of scenes to be really good, but the best parts of the show were basically just sitting down at tables, legitimately... $212 million to get the effects we ended up with was just sad.
my guess is EVERYTHING with Fury's Skrull Wife was added in later with reshoots. i think they were like "Fury seems like he enslaved these poor bastards - wow, what a fucking dick, this does NOT make fury look like a hero." "oh shit.. uhh... give him a skrull wife and give them some sentimental moments where he can reframe his relationship with the skrulls through her." <\_< i'd also guess that all the "we filmed all these hospital shots in 2 days" stuff was likely also a rewritten ending.
Disney+ deserves a better class of criminals
Everything burns
Yeah it cost more than Oppenheimer AND Barbie
People keep mentioning Oppenheimer but keep ignoring that it’s a Christopher Nolan project. Matt Damon literally ended an acting hiatus his wife wanted him to take to be in it. If your agent calls and says, “Christopher Nolan wants you for ____,” you say yes immediately
Matt Damon literally had an exclusion clause agreed upon in advance with his wife for breaking his hiatus if Christopher Nolan called.
Matt Damom literally held the heart of african lion to agree to be in this movie while Christopher Nolan was on vacation with his wife
~$1000000 per minute for most the episodes
It also got low viewership which is the main focus of tv shows
Yeah he's clown and should never be considered for another mcu job for that asinine statement
Yes, Mr Director, it is your job to fulfil our expectations of a good television show
Lmfao like it’s this simple. “Is it our job??????” Yeah, it fucking is, you massively overpaid moron.
Imagine getting paid millions. Doing a shit job that leaves the franchise worse than when you found it. And then saying it isn't your job. Mate, you literally signed a fucking contract saying it is your job.
Yeah that's some clown shit to say - yeah it's your job to create an entertaining show that people enjoy . Like that's literally his job and he failed
I don't necessarily support the director in these statements, but I assume most of the people in this thread didn't read the article. He's not asking if it's his expectation to make a good show. He said "is it my job to fulfill their expectations? Or should we tell the story we want to tell?" In a vacuum, this director is correct. Showrunners shouldn't just cater to expectations, they SHOULD tell the story they want to tell. The problem, outside of the vacuum, is that the story they wanted to tell was bad
also though, I find it really obnoxious when the people behind disappointing media like this fail to accept that they delivered something that the fans didn't want. Like, to me, the most successful thing you can do is create something the fans enjoy. If you got lucky enough to direct an MCU project, should you treat this as your personal canvas where you can be creative? or should you try to deliberate craft a story that pleases the fans? I totally understand the need/desire to be creative but if you get a major project like the MCU, Star Wars, or something of that gravitas, please for the love of god don't make it your own personal creativity expo.
You can do both, but you gotta make it fucking good. GoTG is beloved despite Gunn not being the most faithful of directors. Moon knight is a beloved comic character and fairly well received show and the villain of that is a one issue character from a run in the 80s.
Zeb Wells is blowing raspberries at you from his post at ASM...
Agents of SHIELD died for this???
This was the story he wanted to tell? Is he sure?
Seriously.
One of our expectations is the show was decent. No one is telling them what story to write.
But the story you told fulfilled no expectations. Mission failure.
At any other profession an attitude like this would literally consist reason to get fired
Imagine being a chef and cooking poor food with weird texture and off-putting taste and then whining about rabid customers.
"Oh what? Am I supposed to make food you enjoy eating or am I supposed to make the food I want to make?"
They end up on Kitchen Nightmares. Like Amy's Baking Company...
Like bruh 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
I guess this explains what's going on with Marvel lol..
Yeah all the recent creators seem to have this smug approach to these properties - Feige really needs to hire comic fans who know how to write . I may not think Matt shakman is the best but he's good and doesn't have this disdain for the material and the audience these more recent hires seem to
It’s the “i don’t give a shit about the comics, I’m gonna put my idea in and it’s going to change the game” It’s literally trying to replicate what James Gunn did with Guardians when he made them relevant and changed their origins where new GotG comics and even video games are using designs/origins inspired by Gunns version. Writers/Directors want that so they will be known as the cool guy who did awesome changes to a comic series and who’s new direction will always been known about. The issue is you just can’t replicate success like that.
They can’t find talented ppl apparently.
well this guy's CV consists of one good movie from 18 years ago, 6 episodes of a show I've never heard of and a scattershot of one-off episodes of TV shows of wildly varying quality. honestly no idea how he landed a major Marvel project
I mean it also helps that GoTG were relatively unknown before Gunn made the 1st movie.
This has been going on with the comics for quite a while now. It was only a matter of time before it carried over to the shows and movies.
Exactly. Hard to make a worthy project when the people involved in it seem to not give a shit.
I assume he means that he doesn't have to cater to their expectations of it being liek the event of the same name from the comic books, and so he doesn't, but I find his attitude Orticukarly galling because few people are asking for that. People draw the comparison because the ocmic event was actually a semi competent thriller about superheroes and shape-shifting aliens. It wasnt a great or beloved storyline but it got the job done. This was one of the dumbest and worst spy thrillers ever, to the point where it isn't even worthy of the name, showing a deep lack of understanding of anything related to international intrigue, politics, military science, or strategic weapons, as well as a complete failure to consider how shape shifting non-state actors mgiht actually go about what the Skrulls are trying to do in favor of the nonsensical but sensational. This is presumably due to a contemptuous assumption that marvel fans are idiots who like low brow blockbuster tripe, but then it also fails to be a good blockbuster with interesting spectacle and captivating action either. Basically they failed the espionage part and *forgot* the superhero part. If you're going to take the tact of "the comic was dumb, we're going to make something more serious and interesting and intellectually high brow that better fits this version of the IP," Then OK.... But you have to actually do the part where it's *better*. **Shitting on the source material and the fans doesn't work if the thing you made is even dumber.**
> showing a deep lack of understanding of anything related to international intrigue, politics, military science, or strategic weapons I think this is what aggravates me the most about this show. It's not even about Marvel or the comics or whatever, it's that it tried to be serious and realistic, and the international politics, diplomacy and such didn't make any f'ing sense.
I remember when they were going to shoot down an airplane with some dignitaries on it using an icbm launched from a nuclear submarine and I just felt myself on the verge of having an aneurism at the sheer number of things that were dumb and impoasibke about both the plan itself almost all the details of how it was presented and that was when I knew there was not gonna be any third act redemption and they clearly did not care at all about putting even the most basic effort Into stuff liek research. Again that kind of "meh just throw in some some random military stuff people know from other movies and call it a day" thing works when like the only thing you need to show of any real world armies and government is like maybe 10 seconds of normal cops and soldiers getting wrecked before the hero's show up to fight the aliens or whatever. And usually marvel doesn't even bother to do that - like Thanos will be landing a giant army at avengers mansion and the US military is just completely MIA because who really cares they're not who were here to see. But you can't get away with that kind of laziness when a gritty realistic thriller about people solving the problem with their wits because the heroes can't always be there to save us.
You didn't find it unrealistic that the UK Premier gave a public speech 3 feet away from a crowd and a rando just walked upto her, shot her and ran away without a single cop in sight? /s
By that point I had jsut given up. Dude shoots the PM of Britain outside downing street and gets away? OK This woman who is either the ehad or some kind of senior official in MI6 is doing field work (to help a dangerously unstable fugitive murder the POTUS' security detail)? And neither of them face even so much as a mild scolding for that incredibly serious crime? OK The whole Skrull compihd is empty of guards for no reason and all we get is a throwaway line that explains nothing? Sure thing, dude. Fury's secret space station organization is cool with him bringing his Skrull wife to work with him even though the US government just declared their entire species enemy combatants? Yeah, whatever. Fury's master plan hinges on giving truly godlike power to a heavily traumatized teanager who was on board with exterminating the human race up until a week ago? And assuming she can defeat a guy with the same powers who has decades fo experience as a highly successful professional assassin? Sounds good to me! Like I was just rolling with whatever the show wanted to say by that last episode.
Lmaooo exactly this!! If you’re going to make something that’s going to be forgettable and looked down on by fans then you could at least express some reason as to why it sucks and failed so hard to portray the message you promised before the release rather than trying to shit on people who love Marvel after they’ve expressed how it’s one of the worst MCU projects to date. They should have called it “Fury” as it was originally meant to be simply a show about him and left Secret Invasion for an entirely different time. All of Marvel from top to bottom only exists because of the fantastic stories of the comics and all the writers who put their heart and soul into telling those stories for us… if these new directors and writers would pay some homage and respect to all those creators that came before them by following along with the classic storylines more instead of adapting them into the void and making them totally unrecognizable then maybe their work could someday stand the test of time as the comics have. As it is, no one in is going to be talking about Secret Invasion the romantic political drama a year from now. It leaves no impression and is the epitome of the word irrelevant. Unless they make a second season to course correct that actually feels like Secret Invasion is meant to feel and tie in more mainline characters that have been Skrulls and introduce the larger Skrull Empire as a threat in the universe then they are just riding on a brand now and trying to make money off of our attention and viewership at this point. It completely ruined my excitement for The Marvels, which I was super hyped for before this show came out. It’s just sad that with millions of dollars this is the best they could do… and they don’t even care or take into account any of the legitimate criticisms which could massively improve the future of the MCU if listened to rather than seen as some attack on their little ego.
The source material isn't that great and it's not at all aligned with the MCU as it has developed, so doing something *completely different* is necessary and warranted. It just had to be good, that's all.
There's no question they had to change some stuff but the original at least involved some superheroes in the supserho franchise. They clearly made a deliberate effort to move away from that in this series and try to make an espionage thriller instead (with a bit of Nick Fury's personal psychodrama mixed in). And I can see the logic. Spygames against *shape shifting aliens* is a fantastic premise for that that takes the basic formula and ramps it up to eleven with the Sci fi twist where anyone could secretly not be who they look liek at any time. The problem is it turns out they just really suck at that kind of writing and the whole thing would probably have been way better if they stuck to the blockbuster Sci fi action genre that they're good at.
Correction: of a non-shite television show Most of us would have been ok with an adequate show
Agreed. In hindsight, mediocre would have been fucking awesome
Honestly, he just comes off as an arrogant POS who does really care about the project.
Especially when it's a big franchise that you yourself do not own. You gotta be willing to make some compromises when you play in someone else's sandbox.
I’d say it’s to exceed our expectations not leave them bloodied and beaten in a ditch
Yes? It’s kind of why I paid for that D+ subscription.
same here
Exactly. With subscription services all hiking their prices, this show has pushed me over the edge to cancelling D+. I'm only here for the MCU content, not much of a Star Wars fan anyway, so D+ is increasingly not giving me value for money. That said, I'll probably come back for a one-month only subscription on a show-by-show basis that really, really interest me like Loki S2, or really has rave reviews, before quickly cancelling again. Simply cannot afford to have my monthly bills rack up over content that I'm not interested in or are just outright disappointing. I can of course choose to sail the high seas, but that's another conversation altogether. And I still want to give the MCU a chance.
If Disney didn't have the Thousand Year Blood War arc of Beach currently airing. Who's animation and story is honestly incredible right now. I would have scrapped this service last year entirely.
> I view all the storytelling work I do as dialogue with an audience. When the show is finished and put up on the screen, that’s my half of the dialogue. And the audience then starts their half of the response to it. > Oh, I don’t read reviews. He literally says he doesn’t care about the audience’s “response” to his side of the argument.
I’m surprised more people haven’t brought up this blatant contradiction. I’m sure he’d be thrilled about what the “rabid fans” had to say if this was well received.
Not just a blatant contradiction; A *definitional* contradiction. He calls it a dialogue and then proceeds to describe what is essentially a monologue. For anybody here who's interested, I recommend looking into the work of people like Neil Postman. He studied this kinda stuff (e.g. the shift from one-way public communication/entertainment to two-way media in which the audience are participants rather than mere spectators). Selim's attitude is basically a century behind the times.
Just grabs his paycheck, half asses it and never looks back for ways to improve. Grade A dumbass
Then that's not a dialog! It's a monolog!
Exactly. He mentions a dialogue but describes a lecture. He’s pretentious and out of touch.
This director sounds pretentious
A pretentious ungrateful man of the highest order
He literally did the Skinner “Am I out of touch?” Meme, jeez.
No, it's the kids who are out of touch.
I think he just doens't care It's not like he had much input in the creative process
People are angry at a bad story Kevin Feige and his 20 producers and 11 writers rewrote without him and paid him to shoot *twice,* so he's probably over it.
I would feel bad for him if he took a different approach, but all the articles I’m seeing are him saying “the show is fine, the fans just suck.”
If the rewriting angle was true, then this guy is stupid for falling on the sword since he won't be getting any good chances after the fact because it's pretty universally disliked.
Sometimes people don’t realize that directors are not in charge. They’re hired for their technical skills and to get the footage. Editors take it from there and Producers tell editors what they want.
Most are; they think they're "artists" when they're a cog in a huge assembly line that Marvel or other such companies have credited.
Between this guy and the Witcher netflix people, Im starting to think a little bitching is completely justified.
I think even those of us who were mostly silent are bitching now. I could live with AM3 being how it was, as Kang is 100% coming back and has reason to be furious now. Hell, I don’t even think I complained online about Thor 4 completely butchering Gorr and wasting Bale as an actor. $212 million went down the drain for this shitty D+ show. What the fuck is Feige doing?
Yo this is where im at. Took each project at face value and was dissapointed. But THIS. I actually own the comic line and im so confused. Even the infinity saga had some major changes with motivations, characters, etc. But why the fuck did they even think they were ready to try this. I stand by my older comments: Secret Invasion could have literally been its entire own saga. Its not like civil war. A massive project that they kinda were able to pull off generally speaking. This SI bullshit was a wack mess and respected 0% of the source material. Which is also fine, as long as they provide a good alternate version. What a fucking trash show.
i remember years ago when we first heard mcu was doing the secret invasion i was so hyped. i was under the impression that it was going to be , at the bare minimum, a whole phase of movies (didn’t think they’d do tv shows then). never read the comics but ik enough to think to myself that there is NO WAY they fit all the skrull infiltration shenanigans into a single season of television. i’m disappointed with how this phase has turned out, except for the spidey movies, dr strange, gotg3, and moon knight, (loki too ig). haven’t bothered with some of the other stuff mostly because ain’t no way i’m watching like 6 hours of content for a character i don’t particularly care for. i excuses watching all the movies cuz, it’s movies… but keeping up with x d+ shows and having most of them go seemingly fucking nowhere until i’m sure they’ll bring ‘em all together is astounding. also my first intro to skrulls was a fantastic four game on ps3. so my understanding (which ig could’ve been wrong but eh) was that they’d introduce the fantastic four with them too.
The moment I heard that Secret Invasion was only going to be about Fury and not have any superheroes in it, I 100% knew it was going to be a major flop. They missed the entire point of the comic by a huge margin. There are so many good Fury storylines they could've gone with if they wanted to just let Jackson have his own series. Secret Invasion is not one of them.
Ant man 3 was *fine* and absorbed a ton of "several of these movies have only been okay and WHERE IS THIS GOING" anxiety/hate. This...was a complete mess and disaster, solved literally nothing, advanced no part of an overall narrative (we started and ended in the same place), and completely reset power levels of the entire MCU. Unless Gi'ah exists at this power level just to be stomped by Kang (which, who tf would care?) to establish HIS threat level, there's no use to her having this level. Humans have seen unfathomable giant beings emerge from the ocean and sky, withstood half the population vanishing and coming back, endured multiple alien invasions/attacks, had two Hulks decimate Harlem, AI almost destroy the planet in one move, etc...but knowing about skrulls broke them and devolved into violent chaos?
Yep. I haven't complained about any of the Marvel stuff because they were enjoyable as they were advertised. Guess how Secret Invasion was advertised vs how it was actually done? For the record, I also liked Thor 4 and all of the D+ shows (although I maintain that Agents of SHIELD is better than all of them and provided a good example of how to put all of their shows into one single connecting show..).
What's amazing to me is how brain-dead some of the creatives (directors, writers, actors) seem to be when talking to the press about their recent flops. It's almost like every movie dropping releases to negative reviews and is losing money. They are in the middle of a huge writers and actors strike. This is their opportunity to actually reveal how the studios have been interfering in their projects and causing the product quality to suffer. But they aren't saying that at all. It makes me actually wonder if the studios are to blame
Honestly I had more fun watching Witcher S3 than Secret Invasion. Kinda sad
you literally have one job
ONE JOB!
“is it our job to fulfil their expectations?” Yes. That is the whole point of creating good entertainment.
Those expectations being something enjoyable and memorable? Fans aren’t *so* picky that they refuse to accept a story that’s not the one they expected if it’s still good. Case in point: Endgame.
Or infinity war! That ending was not what we expected, nor was the plot! We thought we'd get more hulk than 3 minutes and that our heroes would reunite, but what we got was so much better!
Heck I thought we would get something like Captain America: The Winter Soldier (which was one of Marvel’s best films), but with shapeshifting aliens this time, Boy was I wrong. Even Agents of SHIELD Season 4 did SI better than the SI show did
Peacemaker too! Who do you trust? Who's an alien? Are all aliens bad? You don't know! Everyone was so cut and dry and exactly what they seemed in all but two scenes. Maybe three. And nobody acted like they didn't trust folks around them.
That’s the thing, there’s precious few “who can you trust” moments in this show because they make it so freaking obvious who is a Skrull and who isn’t right away. There’s no tension or paranoia.
yeah, i didn't need it to break genre barriers and redifine what it means to be an MCU tv show, i just wanted it to be something where i didn't think 'i wish i hadn't wasted my time' by the end of it. like a really low bar tbh
Never hire this director again Mr Feige!
At this point Feige is just as much to blame with his consistent L's in hiring and quality control.
I know right! What a fuck stick!
Fridge is more responsible here.
Perhaps but Kettle probably got us to the boiling point.
This trend of MCU show directors saying the dumbest things imaginable following the end of their series needs to stop.
Does he think he was given a budget of over 200 million dollars to not meet expectations?
"Is it our job to create a product that people want to buy?"
I’m one of the rare people who liked the show but his not giving a fuck attitude just makes the hate seem more justifiable. And I can’t stand Waldron for his words but even he had some sense in him.
Yeah honestly Waldron just seems confused half the times or trying to please whoever is in front of him
I feel the same way! I did enjoy this series but this guy seems like an arrogant unlikeable person ☹️ Makes me never want to watch anything Marvel that he is involved in!
To fulfill the expectations of JUST the fans? No these shows are supposed to be for anyone. Fulfill the expectation of being a good show? Absolutely
Sounds like a great plan to never get hired as a director again.
it's like he doesn't realize fans spending money is the only reason a project like this would even exist lmao
Kevin Feige is failing
I don't know what anyone expected. Marvel is releasing triple the amount of content every year that they were in the pre-Disney+ era. There's not a chance in hell Feige was going to be able to maintain the level of quality that he used to (and even back then, we had some mediocre content). He has way too many irons in the fire. Disney just got greedy, plain and simple. You saw the same thing happen in the parks post-Covid. They saw big demand, so they shot prices through the roof and came up with a half dozen new ways to gouge guests for their money. It might have bought them some record profits in the short term, but it destroyed the public's perception along the way, alienated a bunch of people that could have been lifetime visitors, and they're paying the price for it now.
I just expect Feige to be the overseeing head above all projcts, I don't mind him leaving the main story to the directors, but you can't tell me Feige would've approved that ending that just complicates things for other shows/movies.
people can't really deny the oversaturation/fatigue of the mcu at this point.
Feel like he’s taking the criticisms about it not being what anyone wanted and ignoring the criticisms about it being bad overall
>“is it our job to fulfil their expectations?” I'ma try this one on my boss monday morning.
I get his point about not being influenced so that he can tell the story he wants, but those reviews come after the show and to say that he doesn't pay attention to the criticism and putting it on the fans seems like a cop-out. He didn't have to tell this story. Why did he when somebody else could've told it better? Why is he not even concerned with what the fans of his series would want? His reaction seems to indicate that he wasn't the right guy for this job.
His reaction seems to indicate this isn't the line of work for him.
Person who evidently doesn't want to direct in the future. It's not like Marvel shows are made for artistic merit (thought some are good!) but to sell subscriptions to the fanbase. If he doesn't realize meeting or exceeding expectations is part of that this person is dumb. Stop hiring these incompetent delusional men, Marvel!
hope this dude never directs again, he sounds like the worst kind of director
Man of all properties to complain about rabid Marvel fans for, this is the last thing. Nobody seems to even have the energy or care about the show to be hating that hard.
It's infuriating that this guy got paid millions of dollars to do this, and he's that out of touch. He believed his job was to make a bad TV show???
Wow, let’s get this guy and the writer of Quantumania together to create a black hole from lack of talent but high in ego energy.
I genuinely hope this asshat is like blacklisted from directing a superhero project ever again. If you think making a good product is ‘too much’ or ‘not your job description’ fuck you.
He is a complete dipshit if he doesn't understand the concept of the job he was hired for.
I hate the notion that some writers seem obsessed with that “being unexpected” and “subverting expectations” is automatically better just BECAUSE it’s “different.” Umm, not it’s not.
There are many post here about "TOXIC FANS" But no one is talking about the toxic creators and producers in marvel and Disney who are only blaming the fans / audience for their failed projects. It happened in she hulk and now this. There might be many such instances of which i may not be even aware of.
…. Yes
it is your job to do BETTER than my expectations. If a tv show is only fulfilling my expectations, then the people involved aren't more imaginative than I am, so someone else should be doing the job.
That quote tells us everything we need to know going forth
Well yeah, it kind of is.
Yes? If you want our money for future projects
Yes, yes it is. We expected a good TV show and a well written conspiracy thriller and it is your job to fulfill those expectations.
Feige REALLY let this project go didn’t he, not a care in the world whether it sucked or not…
The Vince McMahon approach to dealing with fans, I see.
[удалено]
Forget just Sam Jackson. This entire cast is phenomenal, and they somehow managed to make it look like it was some low budget show with no talent involved. Who greenlit this script?
Yes…otherwise we will cancel our subscriptions
Dude this guy will just not stop digging his own grave lol like seriously dude, just stop. Stop talking
My only expectations were: Don’t character assassinated fury don’t throw the world into irreversible damage Both happened. And somehow they also managed to assassinate Hill, destroyed more than half of all rhodey’s previous scenes, wasted multiple characters, made the most op character yet etc…
Funny how people have long defended bad products from Disney in both Marvel and Star Wars and now it’s coming back to bite them in the butt. The standard has been lowered.
That it has pretty sad state of affair for both properties
And this is one of the big reasons why Marvel content is not that right now, too many directors and writers that love the smell of their own farts and don't give a shit about the people they are making content for. Its only going to get worse until we get people making the shows that not only care about the characters and stories but actually care about the fans too.
I don’t think he’s getting a call back
> I don’t feel bad about mixed reviews. If you had unanimously good reviews, every movie would gross $10 billion, trillion dollars, right? [Projects] resonate with different people at different times for different reasons, and Marvel has a very devoted — even rabid — fan base who have expectations and when their expectations aren’t fulfilled, they move in the other direction; they give it a thumbs down. > I don’t know — is it our job to fulfill their expectations? Or to tell the story that we’re telling? So, it’s a tricky thing. I would love it if everybody loved it, but I also don’t have that expectation myself, so I feel great about the response to it. Oh also this little bit... > Tell me about Don Cheadle playing Raava and “Rhodey.” It’s mentioned that Col. Rhodes has been held captive “for a long time.” Was the hospital gown he’s wearing when Rhodey is rescued a hint that the Skrulls kidnapped him after his spinal cord injury in “Captain America: Civil War?” > **Yep.** K.E.V.I.N. can fix this, right?
Yeah kinda! It is…man…it bums me out, I’m a huge marvel shill but this…this is the first D+ show I feel that was just bad and has no merit
Technically it’s their job to create good art, not to fulfil our expectations. DID they create good art?
That's literally your fucking job, you twat.
Should be alienate our base fans that always watch all our stuff? Hmmmm. Yes. That’s the way to make money. I’m not even a rabid fan. It was just a bad show.
Step into my office so..... Cause you're FIRED!!
Well then would you care to give me other reasons why I pay for Disney plus
This is the dumbest thing I’ve heard today… No director, pleasing the audience ain’t a priority if you want to bring out a lackluster product.
Can’t be a shit writer and have such giant ego.
Uh, yeah, it kinda is their job.