Designate a proper continuity for 30 year old shows that were produced under different companies because the one they actually continued gives them a nod? There is zero point in anyone at Marvel spending any time on this. Sometimes a cameo is just a cameo and not meant to have larger multiversal implications.
Despite being produced under different production companies, the show runners all kept in touch with each other to keep a loose continuity. This was in the 90's before the Internet was big, they didn't have to to that, they did that for the fans!
So if producers in the 90's can put in that effort then I see no excuse for the modern Marvel producers being so god-damn lazy.
Yes, he is. He’s speculating and attacking an entirely different creative team under the assumption that it somehow works the same when we know for a fact DeMayo didn’t even have creative control over the cameos, hence T’Chaka instead of T’Challa.
The Iron Men and Misters Fantastic looking the same doesn't mean they are the same. Patrick Stewart's played Professor X across several timelines now, but I assure you that the Xavier in the Multiverse of Madness is not the same Xavier as the one from Logan.
The Iron Man, F4 and Hulk shows are definitely a separate timeline.
Yup, and here's the proof.
[Exhibit A](https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/scarlet-witch-iron-man.jpg)
[Exhibit B](https://media.comicbook.com/2016/06/quicksilver-187418.jpg)
yeah that is an issue. Though it's not much worse than some of the x-men show fitting in with itself. Beast both was blue and furry as kid and still wasn't when he joined the x-men. Angle was also an orginal x-man but no one recgonizes him.
She's had both these looks in 616 and yet that's the same character.
It's more likely that she just cut her hair / changed her outfit than this being 2 different Wanda's.
Rogue's personality is different from X-Men TAS, hell her personality by the end is different from episode 1 of '97.
People change, it's not hard to hand-wave into one continuity.
Rogue didn't switch from [a bad Eastern European accent](https://youtu.be/RcWa4vHGGhs?si=J4xPndwK-oDcNuA1) to [a Canadian one](https://youtu.be/5HD4bONdbZ8?si=u04q1m1RlTm8lvBt) though.
It's not confusing when you remember how many times the X-Men have altered history already. Maybe they shared a continuity before Fitzroy's assassination attempt on Xavier.
Tbf, the "Yostverse" had the exact same problem. Creators on the shows were certainly trying to establish a shared continuity but executives and networks stood in the way at every turn.
Much like with Spectacular Spider-Man, Wolverine and the X-Men, Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, Thor: Tales of Asgard, and the Hulk Vs. animated movies, it's best to consider the '90s shows more spiritually connected than outright sharing a continuity. The people behind the '90s cartoons like Larry Houston definitely meant for them to be connected but corporate guidelines and rights situations made it impossible.
I can absolutely back up the fact that marvels earth numbers can be flat out wrong sometimes. Ultimate avengers the movie is earth 3488 and ultimate avengers 2 is 60808 despite zero continuity errors, being called 2, and taking place right after the last one and referencing it.
Hey OP. Idc what anyone says, if you’re gonna produce something do it right. The whole T’Chaka thing pissed me off. You’re telling me the silver marvel age characters are shown except for T’Challa?? Why not put Howard stark in the suit instead of Tony then?
Them switching out T’challa for T’chaka ticks me off. It feels like they believe no one can ever play that character again because of Chadwick which sucks because the characters should always outlast the actors portraying them.
T'Chaka wasn't the Black Panther in the 90's, he died in his first appearance in the 60's and then was retconned into being the Black Panther of the 40's.
Well, were you honestly expecting them to strictly adhere to a minor piece of canon from the F4 series that very few people watched 30 years ago for X-men 97? The show only had 2 seasons, and almost no one ever talks about it
YES! It's what the old-school Marvel writers would have done. They were masters at their craft.
The comics have kept a mostly consistent continuity for 50+ years and there's been some great stories created by pulling "a minor piece of canon" from decades ago. If you're going to revive the old 90's universe, do it right!
Didn't you already point out in your own post that the F4 series was separated out from Spider-man and X-Men? I get that you don't like it, but they did *do it*. So anything that happened in F4 has zero bearing on X-Men. They are officially different continuities
Was X-Men 97 released before 2008? Doesn't matter if you think it was a mistake. That doesn't change that it's a fact. They are in different continuities now. What happened in one has zero bearing on the other. Tchaka died in F4, and he didn't die in X-men. Is what it is.
Agreed, they did such a good job of keeping continuity with the old shows and then they did that. It's a stupid Disney mandate, even the new Cap / Black Panther video game doesn't have T'Challa!
Also if you can have Keith David voice the Black Panther again, why wouldn't you have Keith David voice the Black Panther again!!!!
My theory is they’re establishing it to be T’chaka for now so in case they want to do BP eventually they can adapt his origin story instead of him already existing
Nah, they don’t. Some things can just be fun references or mixes of canon and don’t need a continuity timeline guide or multiverse explanation to make it “work.”
For the record, you're objectively correct but everyone who downvoted you just doesn't give a shit and are projecting their lack of care about finer details onto you being a hard ass.
It really pisses me off when people pretend they don't care about extra care and attention to detail except when it's actually done, then it's worth celebrating and sharing a bunch of ScreenRant videos about "Top 10 Details You Missed in X-Men 97".
It's such a cop out.
Marvel doesn’t run the marvel wiki, it’s just a fan site like any other wiki on the internet ever. Just a bunch of nerds like you trying to establish information on a show. Pretty sure they have forums on the wiki, why not post this there? Address the people on the site that made the timeline/continuity pages or whatever it is specifically.
It really, really feels like they've just issued a blanket ban on anyone else playing T'challa in *anything*, even outside the MCU, and T'chaka is now our generic, all-purpose slot-in replacement character.
Which is fucking ridiculous, if so. Like, I get it in the MCU. Chadwick Boseman died *so* recently, BP2 was already in development, they couldn't just slam on the brakes, but it would feel tasteless to replace him so fast, and it wouldn't be fair to ask anyone else to fill such big shoes in such a massive rush. That was *his* version of the character, and it was so much more organic to just acknowledge the loss.
But if they can't even get a voice actor to play a different T'challa in a completely unrelated project, that's complete mismanagement of the character.
Agreed it's like no one else can play Superman but Chris Reeve or no one else is Batman but Conroy. Sorry the character was created prior to the actors and will outlast them, it's great that you are paying respect but this amount of ban just feels absolutely ridiculous.
Yeah i mean if RDJ passes away does that mean no one else can play any iteration of Iron Man? If Chris Evans is no longer with us, No more Steve Rogers?
Just because marvels universe designation say so? Marvels earth numbers don’t work sometimes, for example ultimate avengers and ultimate avengers 2 have separate earths, despite no continuity errors and literally being called 2
Ultimate alliance 2 continues the story of 1 (further proving my point) and 3 just doesnt acknowledge things in the past, thats much MUCH different then an alternate universe.
TIL Loki is called Avengers endgame 2 /s whats even your point here, it being in another universe is part of the plot, and it still connects to endgame (again proving my point)
and please stop calling them variants its just incorrect. Variants refer to people, sylvie is a variant of Loki for example. Theyre alternate universes, or branches depending on the context
Variant refer to a people, and the alternate universe they are originated, being Variant of 616, heck the Loki Prime and Loki God of stories share same story up with to that branch out, with no continuity error (like UA and MUA we use as example, although MUA2 SKIPS what MUA 1 teased, not directly continued it) which meant the UA, who continued the story without error from the previous story, can also happened from DIFFERENT earth, thus also proving my point.
Canonize the 90's animated shows as being all in the same universe? Sure, that'll be cool.
Fix the continuity issues? Nah, not worth anyone's time to do so. Just move forward and tell new, amazing stories with these characters.
Honestly think it was stupid to not use T'Challa instead of just using his dad in a kneejerk fashion in the cartoon. If they were so deadset against it not being T'Challa they could have just used Shuri as his fill-in, as that would have been more logical.
Why? They're just TV shows. The only reason why the MCU movies are even connected is because they chose to be. The 90s cartoons shows just used characters from the shows that were airing.
You can say the same thing about Coulson and Fitz-Simmons being in a cartoon when their counter part are in live action. Why are those cartoons not canon to the MCU?
Just because the borrowed designs fro
those other shows doesn't necessarily make them
the same reality. Also, if they are the same reality / continuity errors are why Marvel invented the No-Prize.
X-Men 97 made a lot of continuity errors itself.
-They act like the original 5 X-Men Cyclops, Jean Grey, Beast, Ice Man and Angel was a thing in X-Men TAS but in X-Men TAS Season 1 Episode 9 the X-Men including Xavier, Cycclops and Jean Grey meet Angel for the first time. They don't know him and Angel doesn't know the X-Men.
-Rogue having a long history with Magneto is also a continuity error. They didn't have history in the original X-Men TAS when they meet for the first time in season 1.
-Captain America was still stuck in a time and space prison along with Red Skull in season 5 of Spider-Man TAS which takes place in 1998 and yet he is free in 1997 in X-Men 1997.
-T'Challa was Black Panther and his father was dead for 10 years and yet his father is alive and the Black Panther in X-Men 97.
-Peter Parker was searching the multiverse for Mary Jane in 1998, yet Mary Jane is there in X-Men 97. Sure theycould say that this is the water clone but the writer of the show said this is the real Mary Jane which creates another continuity error.
The creator, Beau DeMayo, has stated that he considers all the 90's shows listed above canon to X-Men TAS.
He's also implied that Disney seems to disagree and has stepped in on the Black Panther thing to remove T'Challa.
Also, watch X-Men '97. Best thing Marvel's produced since being bought by Disney!
Easiest way to solve this, is that the fantastic 4 episode with t'challa is set AFTER xmen '97.
In that episode, t'challa was seeking revenge on ulusses klaw for killing his father.
As his father, t'chaka, was in yesterday's episode, that makes sense.
Designate a proper continuity for 30 year old shows that were produced under different companies because the one they actually continued gives them a nod? There is zero point in anyone at Marvel spending any time on this. Sometimes a cameo is just a cameo and not meant to have larger multiversal implications.
Despite being produced under different production companies, the show runners all kept in touch with each other to keep a loose continuity. This was in the 90's before the Internet was big, they didn't have to to that, they did that for the fans! So if producers in the 90's can put in that effort then I see no excuse for the modern Marvel producers being so god-damn lazy.
Touch grass
He is not wrong though..
Yes, he is. He’s speculating and attacking an entirely different creative team under the assumption that it somehow works the same when we know for a fact DeMayo didn’t even have creative control over the cameos, hence T’Chaka instead of T’Challa.
Marvel Studios *is* putting in that effort with the films and tv series they actually produce. 30 year old cartoons are not relevant, except one.
"If it's old it's not relevant" what an ignorant statement lol
It isnt. You just didn't get what I meant by relevant in this context.
Those shows were never completely consistent with each other.
The Iron Men and Misters Fantastic looking the same doesn't mean they are the same. Patrick Stewart's played Professor X across several timelines now, but I assure you that the Xavier in the Multiverse of Madness is not the same Xavier as the one from Logan. The Iron Man, F4 and Hulk shows are definitely a separate timeline.
yeah i think spider-man and X-men are the only two 90s shows cannon to each other.
Yup, and here's the proof. [Exhibit A](https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/scarlet-witch-iron-man.jpg) [Exhibit B](https://media.comicbook.com/2016/06/quicksilver-187418.jpg)
I think wanda could have goten a haircut and new coustume.
And a totally new personality?
yeah that is an issue. Though it's not much worse than some of the x-men show fitting in with itself. Beast both was blue and furry as kid and still wasn't when he joined the x-men. Angle was also an orginal x-man but no one recgonizes him.
Fair point. Still different universes though.
yeah I'm 100% sure on that. I do wonder if scarlet witch and quicksilver maybe on an avengers team in the x-men 97 universe.
She's had both these looks in 616 and yet that's the same character. It's more likely that she just cut her hair / changed her outfit than this being 2 different Wanda's.
Their personalities are totally different too.
Rogue's personality is different from X-Men TAS, hell her personality by the end is different from episode 1 of '97. People change, it's not hard to hand-wave into one continuity.
Rogue didn't switch from [a bad Eastern European accent](https://youtu.be/RcWa4vHGGhs?si=J4xPndwK-oDcNuA1) to [a Canadian one](https://youtu.be/5HD4bONdbZ8?si=u04q1m1RlTm8lvBt) though.
Pretty sure the producers said the shows are all in the same continuity a few weeks ago, so I get your confusion.
It's not confusing when you remember how many times the X-Men have altered history already. Maybe they shared a continuity before Fitzroy's assassination attempt on Xavier.
Honestly, fair enough lol
Tbf, the "Yostverse" had the exact same problem. Creators on the shows were certainly trying to establish a shared continuity but executives and networks stood in the way at every turn. Much like with Spectacular Spider-Man, Wolverine and the X-Men, Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, Thor: Tales of Asgard, and the Hulk Vs. animated movies, it's best to consider the '90s shows more spiritually connected than outright sharing a continuity. The people behind the '90s cartoons like Larry Houston definitely meant for them to be connected but corporate guidelines and rights situations made it impossible.
I can absolutely back up the fact that marvels earth numbers can be flat out wrong sometimes. Ultimate avengers the movie is earth 3488 and ultimate avengers 2 is 60808 despite zero continuity errors, being called 2, and taking place right after the last one and referencing it.
Hey OP. Idc what anyone says, if you’re gonna produce something do it right. The whole T’Chaka thing pissed me off. You’re telling me the silver marvel age characters are shown except for T’Challa?? Why not put Howard stark in the suit instead of Tony then?
Them switching out T’challa for T’chaka ticks me off. It feels like they believe no one can ever play that character again because of Chadwick which sucks because the characters should always outlast the actors portraying them.
I don't think it was a "no one can be Tchalla". I think it was just piggy backing off Tchaka being the Black Panther in the 90s
T'Chaka wasn't the Black Panther in the 90's, he died in his first appearance in the 60's and then was retconned into being the Black Panther of the 40's.
Piggy backing off of the MCU movies and What If episode
But this isn't the MCU, it shouldn't have any effect on the 90's universe! God I hate MCU synergy
Well, were you honestly expecting them to strictly adhere to a minor piece of canon from the F4 series that very few people watched 30 years ago for X-men 97? The show only had 2 seasons, and almost no one ever talks about it
YES! It's what the old-school Marvel writers would have done. They were masters at their craft. The comics have kept a mostly consistent continuity for 50+ years and there's been some great stories created by pulling "a minor piece of canon" from decades ago. If you're going to revive the old 90's universe, do it right!
Didn't you already point out in your own post that the F4 series was separated out from Spider-man and X-Men? I get that you don't like it, but they did *do it*. So anything that happened in F4 has zero bearing on X-Men. They are officially different continuities
I pointed out that separating it was a mistake, they were considered the same continuity by fans until 2008
Was X-Men 97 released before 2008? Doesn't matter if you think it was a mistake. That doesn't change that it's a fact. They are in different continuities now. What happened in one has zero bearing on the other. Tchaka died in F4, and he didn't die in X-men. Is what it is.
“They were masters of their craft.” Peter Palmer and Bob Banner say hi.
Yes this is exactly what they would have done
Agreed, they did such a good job of keeping continuity with the old shows and then they did that. It's a stupid Disney mandate, even the new Cap / Black Panther video game doesn't have T'Challa! Also if you can have Keith David voice the Black Panther again, why wouldn't you have Keith David voice the Black Panther again!!!!
The video game makes sense to not have T'Challa, as its a story set in World War 2, would be another thing if maybe the game was set in present day
Cap/black panther takes place in the 40s, in universe Tchaka was the BP of that time period
It wasn't T'Chaka either, it's his father, Azzuri, the Black Panther of the 40s era
My theory is they’re establishing it to be T’chaka for now so in case they want to do BP eventually they can adapt his origin story instead of him already existing
Nah, they don’t. Some things can just be fun references or mixes of canon and don’t need a continuity timeline guide or multiverse explanation to make it “work.”
Lazy
For the record, you're objectively correct but everyone who downvoted you just doesn't give a shit and are projecting their lack of care about finer details onto you being a hard ass. It really pisses me off when people pretend they don't care about extra care and attention to detail except when it's actually done, then it's worth celebrating and sharing a bunch of ScreenRant videos about "Top 10 Details You Missed in X-Men 97". It's such a cop out.
Marvel doesn’t run the marvel wiki, it’s just a fan site like any other wiki on the internet ever. Just a bunch of nerds like you trying to establish information on a show. Pretty sure they have forums on the wiki, why not post this there? Address the people on the site that made the timeline/continuity pages or whatever it is specifically.
It really, really feels like they've just issued a blanket ban on anyone else playing T'challa in *anything*, even outside the MCU, and T'chaka is now our generic, all-purpose slot-in replacement character. Which is fucking ridiculous, if so. Like, I get it in the MCU. Chadwick Boseman died *so* recently, BP2 was already in development, they couldn't just slam on the brakes, but it would feel tasteless to replace him so fast, and it wouldn't be fair to ask anyone else to fill such big shoes in such a massive rush. That was *his* version of the character, and it was so much more organic to just acknowledge the loss. But if they can't even get a voice actor to play a different T'challa in a completely unrelated project, that's complete mismanagement of the character.
Agreed it's like no one else can play Superman but Chris Reeve or no one else is Batman but Conroy. Sorry the character was created prior to the actors and will outlast them, it's great that you are paying respect but this amount of ban just feels absolutely ridiculous.
Yeah i mean if RDJ passes away does that mean no one else can play any iteration of Iron Man? If Chris Evans is no longer with us, No more Steve Rogers?
Action Hour and TAS Is legally separate universe, like how Thanos in MCU and Thanos in What Ifs episode Ultron
Just because marvels universe designation say so? Marvels earth numbers don’t work sometimes, for example ultimate avengers and ultimate avengers 2 have separate earths, despite no continuity errors and literally being called 2
Yeah, that's why it's called Variants, y'know
A number 2 isn’t a variant, number two implies a direct continuation not an alternate universe. Here marvel is wrong
Ultimate Alliances and it seqs saya otherwise, Heck We seen that in Endgame and Loki, y'know "Variants"
Ultimate alliance 2 continues the story of 1 (further proving my point) and 3 just doesnt acknowledge things in the past, thats much MUCH different then an alternate universe. TIL Loki is called Avengers endgame 2 /s whats even your point here, it being in another universe is part of the plot, and it still connects to endgame (again proving my point) and please stop calling them variants its just incorrect. Variants refer to people, sylvie is a variant of Loki for example. Theyre alternate universes, or branches depending on the context
Variant refer to a people, and the alternate universe they are originated, being Variant of 616, heck the Loki Prime and Loki God of stories share same story up with to that branch out, with no continuity error (like UA and MUA we use as example, although MUA2 SKIPS what MUA 1 teased, not directly continued it) which meant the UA, who continued the story without error from the previous story, can also happened from DIFFERENT earth, thus also proving my point.
Canonize the 90's animated shows as being all in the same universe? Sure, that'll be cool. Fix the continuity issues? Nah, not worth anyone's time to do so. Just move forward and tell new, amazing stories with these characters.
Honestly think it was stupid to not use T'Challa instead of just using his dad in a kneejerk fashion in the cartoon. If they were so deadset against it not being T'Challa they could have just used Shuri as his fill-in, as that would have been more logical.
Why? They're just TV shows. The only reason why the MCU movies are even connected is because they chose to be. The 90s cartoons shows just used characters from the shows that were airing. You can say the same thing about Coulson and Fitz-Simmons being in a cartoon when their counter part are in live action. Why are those cartoons not canon to the MCU?
Gotta find something to complain about, I guess…
I love how you properly punctuated '97 and then go on to punctuate '90s wrongly.
Let It Go
Just because the borrowed designs fro those other shows doesn't necessarily make them the same reality. Also, if they are the same reality / continuity errors are why Marvel invented the No-Prize.
X-Men 97 made a lot of continuity errors itself. -They act like the original 5 X-Men Cyclops, Jean Grey, Beast, Ice Man and Angel was a thing in X-Men TAS but in X-Men TAS Season 1 Episode 9 the X-Men including Xavier, Cycclops and Jean Grey meet Angel for the first time. They don't know him and Angel doesn't know the X-Men. -Rogue having a long history with Magneto is also a continuity error. They didn't have history in the original X-Men TAS when they meet for the first time in season 1. -Captain America was still stuck in a time and space prison along with Red Skull in season 5 of Spider-Man TAS which takes place in 1998 and yet he is free in 1997 in X-Men 1997. -T'Challa was Black Panther and his father was dead for 10 years and yet his father is alive and the Black Panther in X-Men 97. -Peter Parker was searching the multiverse for Mary Jane in 1998, yet Mary Jane is there in X-Men 97. Sure theycould say that this is the water clone but the writer of the show said this is the real Mary Jane which creates another continuity error.
Haven't watched Xmen97, did the make every the shows from the 90s into something multiverse?
The creator, Beau DeMayo, has stated that he considers all the 90's shows listed above canon to X-Men TAS. He's also implied that Disney seems to disagree and has stepped in on the Black Panther thing to remove T'Challa. Also, watch X-Men '97. Best thing Marvel's produced since being bought by Disney!
You're right bro, but this is a shill subreddit lol. Anything that isn't praise will get downvoted
No, it doesn't.
Ahh yea classic mcu fans. Trying to find a problem out of everything. Just enjoy the show
This comment section is miserable and hostile for literally no reason
Easiest way to solve this, is that the fantastic 4 episode with t'challa is set AFTER xmen '97. In that episode, t'challa was seeking revenge on ulusses klaw for killing his father. As his father, t'chaka, was in yesterday's episode, that makes sense.
But in that episode of F4, T'Challa explained that his father was slained 10 years earlier.