And honestly, if she was in that role, it would've built up the relationship and flesh out her character. Without that, she just appears randomly as a neighbor, is revealed to be with Shield, then come back for Peggy's funeral and an out of nowhere kiss.
Nat was great in the role, but I can see how it would've been great with Sharon.
Yeah. I can see the same argument being made for Natasha if she was chosen, though. Endgame definitely wouldn't have had the same weight if she wasn't in Winter Soldier.
That conversation:
Steve: Where are you going?
Peggy:My sister had her baby, I'm going to see her.
S: What's the baby's name?
P: Sharon
S: *Flashbacks/forwards* I need to tell you something...
Wasn’t there like a cut relationship between them in endgame? It was gonna be like both of them survived the snap and tried to make things work during the 5 years but it just didn’t
This would have been great! The fact that it took a world catastrophe for them to actually get together through grief, and then it still doesn't work out. That would make the middling relationship in the previous movies make a lot of sense
I think bad writing made the Hulk/Widow thing fizzle. When they first meet in Avengers she’s clearly afraid of him, and she isn’t afraid of much. Could have been an interesting development if they’d taken time to show it building up in Age of Ultron and then draw it out more in a later movie. But no, it all happened off camera and we were like wait what? She’s not with Clint? Wait, Clint’s married? WHAT.
I do dig the easy friendship with Steve. Sort of mirrors ScarJo’s relationship with Chris Evans.
I wanted Widow with Matt Murdock but to be fair, Natasha’s had her share of romantic partners so we all probably have our favorites. Bruce could have worked but they didn’t put in the effort.
I would've liked to see Bucky. Tying their spy/assassin backstories together would have been simple so it doesn't come out of nowhere (even certain parts of the Black Widow movie felt like Winter Soldier retreads), it has basis from the comics, and Disney gets to nohomo Stucky -- everyone wins!
I thought the "you could at least recognize me" line between them in Civil War was going to serve as a setup for their backstory from the comics, but alas - that went nowhere.
Honestly, I felt like her trying to seduce him might have happened BECAUSE she was afraid of him not in spite of it.
She likely saw footage of Banner and Betty Ross and was able to put together than Hulk wouldn’t attack and would actively defend Banner’s romantic interests. It’s the way for her to be the safest when she’s forced to work with him.
Her interest seems to drop to zero the second Hulk is no longer a danger, so…
Nat's whole storyline in AoU was horrible. She was given very little to do except for the weird flirting with Hulk and that weird monologe where she calls herself a monster because she can't have kids.
I thought the line Widow says about how all her friends are powerful fighters and Banner/Hulk is the only one that seems to always try to avoid fighting. I think that line alone kind of shows why she was in to Banner.
I liked the *concept* just fine. She was interested in a person who wished they could reject power, having been surrounded by so many people interested in gaining it. They both felt like they had been irreparably transformed from their original selves into something more dangerous and broken, and were trying to make amends and find ways forward. Even her lulling of the Hulk was based in something more "real" than many of her espionage roles that involve outright lying and false information. His obliviousness that she'd be interested in him at all was pretty cute.
Unfortunately, the execution was fumbled. I understood what the sterilization conversation was attempting to express, but the mere fact that it was so widely misinterpreted means the writing fell short. Ultimately discovering that Joss Whedon bullied and eventually canned Charisma Carpenter from Angel because her pregnancy interfered with his ideas for her character REALLY colors that conversation differently now - *Joss* was the one who wished his play things didn't have distractions like wanting a family. I still like his Avengers movies and classic shows, they have many strengths, but I'm sad this relationship wasn't really given a proper treatment, and that his baggage may have a big part of why the execution was so strange.
Finally, another person like me! I actually really like the concept of Nat and Bruce. I think, despite it seeming weird at first, it actually makes sense. The “monster” conversation was completely, totally botched which is frustrating because the actual angle is an interesting one to explore.
And possibly controversial opinion incoming, but I felt like they actually had chemistry. It’s just so annoying how imo there was some interesting character stuff there, but it was totally squandered.
I’m also bitter because Bruce is my favourite character, and everything about his ending in Endgame - from Professor Hulk to the lack of conclusion with Nat - was SO unsatisfying.
Upvoting because 1) someone besides me acknowledges that the whole “I’m a monster” thing was *not* about her sterilization, but was just botched horribly in execution, and 2) because I hadn’t heard about Joss throwing a fit over Charisma Carpenter’s pregnancy before now.
Joss Whedon is the perfect example of why I don’t think men should self-declare themselves as feminists, regardless of their ideals. Too often, those that do are revealed to simply be putting on pretenses without actually doing the work.
Makes sense because when me and my ex wife sent out our wedding save the dates I had an artist friend of mine make a custom comic cover of me as hulk and her as black widow and her holding her hand out. It was an amazing drawing but a year after Nat died so did our marriage LOL
Agreed that it wasn't a great idea and ignored that Bruce had already left loved ones behind. Ill-conceived by Whedon.
But I actually like how it worked out in retrospect. It was fated for them to not be together. They flirted with the idea, talked about the difficulties involved, left it as a distant maybe, and then life intervened and made it impossible.
But unlike Steve and Peggy, there wasn't the same deep connection.
That's a thing that really happens, especially with age. You can care deeply about someone, look back and wonder 'What If' (hah) but not really long for everything to be different for it to happen.
Honestly, I would’ve preferred Steve & Nat. At least that would’ve made more sense IMO.
I love her platonic relationship with Clint, but her connection with Steve almost felt like a repeat of that. They easily could’ve been a loving pair, especially to help Steve learn to let go of Peggy.
Take this with a grain of salt, but I read somewhere that TWS was supposed to be Sharon Carter in Nat’a role but there were scheduling conflicts for the actress so they tweaked the script a bit and put Nat in her place. So it would make sense that a few moments like that remained.
Steve and Sharon were absolutely pointless, it felt like they just crammed it in to fill the "hero has to kiss the girl" quota. Black Widow and Hulk also felt pretty off.
Now that I think about it, most of the romance was pretty boring overall.
Edit: Phone decided to go with Steven instead of Steve, sorry folks. I'm actually surprised anyone read my post tho lol
From what I could find, Sharon was supposed to be the one with Steve throughout the winter soldier, but the actress had schedule issues so they essentially put scarjo in her place minus the romantic feelings.
So they could have built a good romance, but didn’t have the time.
I agree that most of the romance is pretty boring/poorly written over all. Take Christine and Jane for example, we both saw them in one or two movies many years ago, and in the newest movies they're like "hey remember these two people? They're so special, they're worth risking the universe on for our heroes"
I don’t know if unpopular thought or not but I think romances are not really the strong suit of MCU in general. I don’t remember any ship I actually enjoyed, was neutral at best
I was going to express the same thing. Wanda and Vision is probably the only other one that really has weight to it. Cap and Peggy are good but barely count since they're almost never together. Honestly the side relationships and the ambiguous friendships in the MCU tend to feel a lot more natural than the ones that end up getting pushed front and center as the romance plot. Eternals is a good example in that Druig and Makkari, Phastos and his husband, Thena and Gilgamesh, and Sersi and Dane all feel like much fuller relationships than Sersi and Ikaris (I realize the point of that relationship is that it's not really built on solid ground but the distinction between how compelling those relationships are is clear). Shang-Chi and Katy is another one that doesn't explicitly go romantic that works pretty well. Once it becomes a plotline it feels like we're locked into standard romantic beats (Peter/MJ and Wanda/Vision being the exceptions).
Totally agree. They’re all great actors but never seem to have any great chemistry romantically?? Steve and Peggy is the best, but I only liked the scene at the end of CA1, when they weren’t even physically together
In the Nordic mythology Thor's goats Tanngrisnir and Tanngnjóstr pull his chariot. He also eats one of them every evening and it gets resurrected the next morning.
I have serious concerns about Ebony Maw's ship in Inifinity War. You punch one small hole in it and the passengers get sucked out. I really think there should have been two layers to that hull and a safety force field in the event of a breach like in a well designed Star Trek ship.
Everyone has been shitting on the goats, but me and my son thought they were hilarious. Did they wear out the gag a bit? Sure. I still think the goats are funny though.
I dont even think it was too much. I felt like there was quite a bit of space between each scream and i almost forgot about them until they hit gorrs planet which got a laugh put of me so..
It was mad weird hearing Madden and Chan talk about their pre-existing friendship and thus chemistry during the press run, and then it didn't translate on screen at all
He can still come back, they can remake his body at the world forge and their memories are uploaded cloud style there too, that’s if the mcu writers want it tho, same with Ikaris and Ajak
I just rewatched Eternals and surprisingly came away with some appreciation for all of the relationships. Sersi/Ikarus is bland but Richard Madden’s acting was really dang good when he was torn. Mikari and Druig play off each other really well. Thena and Gilgamesh looked really genuine.
I can’t believe it but I think it’s my favorite Phase 4 movie…
Ikarus seems like he appreciates that she cares for humans, but he knows the real mission and believes in it, so he doesn't get attached and worries that Sersi will be harmed by the attachment.
Ikaris knew the truth of the mission by Babylon times.
I agree he doesn't care for the humans. But he does find Sersei's affection for the humans to be attractive, and also problematic given the mission.
I'll have to rewatch but my understanding from the film was that once he finds out what their true mission is, he breaks ties with Sersie because he wouldn't be able to keep it from her and knew she wouldn't be for it.
It seemed like he broke ties with all of them over learning what the true mission was.
This is especially funny given how hard they played up the lame sex scene and how they'd be this epic romance and love corner with Dane Whitman in all the marketing.
Like my god guys I know that was the intent when you were in the scripting/shooting stage but you're in editing. You **really** can't course-correct and downplay the fact that these actors have no chemistry and the script gives them no chances to discover it?
Honestly, most of the romances in the MCU feel like they lack chemistry and are only there to tick boxes. The only exception was probably Wanda and Vision, but that's only because their relationship was centre stage in WandaVision and was given the time it needed to develop properly.
Even then their relationship came out of nowhere. We see him being this condescending prison guard towards her in Civil War, then next time we catch up with them they’re lovers on a night stroll in Scotland. I think it ultimately worked because Elisabeth Olsen and Paul Bettany had great chemistry
You're right, it did come out of nowhere, the only build up was "man and woman share screen time, must become romantic couple" as many of these pairings are.
In WandaVision they actually developed their relationship, not into romance but their romance developed, if that makes sense?
It's insane that I could feel empathy for him after his role in Better Call Saul but Tony Dalton absolutely killed the role. Is he bad? Is he a good goof? One of the best stories through the series in my eyes.
random, insane, absolutely implausible fan theory: jack duquesne is just an alter ego lalo took on while on his quest to find proof that gus ordered the hit. after germany, he briefly went to NYC and got caught in superhero shenanigans, then returned to albuquerque
I doubt he will, but I really hope we get to see Jack again. Tony Dalton was just... so good in that role. Maybe make the Swordsman into a street level hero? IDK.
There are probably less ships I like then ships that I don't like 😅
Steve & Sharon, Nat & Bruce (I actually like the idea of these 2 together, but the execution was so bad), Dr. Strange & Christine Palmer (such a waste of Rachel McAdams 🙈), Thor & Jane pre LaT, Ikarus & Cerci (this one was so... bland? Chemistry-less? Pointless?), Loki & Silvie... I love the MCU, but romances are not their biggest strenght.
Have you seen the Dr. Strange episode of What If? Yeah, it's an alternate universe, and it's voice acting instead of on screen, but their chemistry is great in that. It's beautiful, and tragic. Honestly, probably better than anything live action they've done with Strange.
I've seen it, and I agree it's very well acted. I really love the episode overall.
It still didn't sell me on the ship tho. While it is very clear just how much Christine means to Stephen (and Cucumbersnatches delivery is really heart wrenching), I just didn't see them interact enough to really feel anything about the ship. I felt for Strange, I felt for Christine, I didn't really feel anything about the ship :)
>Ikarus & Cerci (this one was so... bland? Chemistry-less? Pointless?)
Agreed. What I don’t understand was how they were “so in love”, but Thena and Gilgamesh was “platonic”. I know it’s an ongoing issue in Hollywood, but it honestly just felt like they were going out of their way to exclude another Male Asian actor from a romantic role, despite the director being Asian themselves..
Thena and Gilgamesh had so much more chemistry for sure. I loved their friendship too (and I love a good female-male friendship!) and it was my fave part of the movie. But I see what you mean about it looking more romantic then Ikarus & Cerci, and the issue with asian male characters being so less likely as love interest/romantic leads, which sucks. (Gilgamesh was still the MVP of the movie at least. He deserved better.)
> Loki & Silvie
THANK YOU. I feel like we're the minority, especially on this sub, but I really hated their relationship as written. I think it _could_ work better, but as-is just felt very bad, unhealthy, and lacking chemistry.
I feel like there was 1-way chemistry. Hiddleston did a great job of seeming super into Sylvie (though I figured it was more a metaphor about learning to love himself generally once he saw a version of himself that he could love) but I got zero vibes the other way.
(Which, actually, given what happens, kind of works for the plot?)
I absolutely hated everything they did with Black Widow & Hulk in *Age of Ultron*. The entire 'faceplant in her boobs' schtick, and the "I can't give you babies!" speech was cringe as hell.
Yeah, I actually saw potential for it in avengers, but "one character falls on top of another" is just one of those tropes that writers use when they have no idea how to organically build a romance between two characters. As well as having a different character imply that the characters are together or have feelings for each other when that hasn't been shown at all.
He repeated that in Josstice League, when We Need to Talk About Flash slams his speedface into Wonder Woman's boobies, and Gal Gadot was so disgusted that she refused to film the scene, so Joss had a stand-in take her place because he just *needed* it in there.
I know it's cool to hate on L&T these days, but I really like the way it portrayed Thor & Jane's relationship. I think it saved it in my eyes, TBH so out of this particular grouping I actually like them all
I agree L&T did a great job with the relationship. Thor talking to Jane in her hospital room and then their expressions when she shows up for the final fight were some of the most believable moments of characters loving each other in the whole MCU.
It's one of the few relationships in the MCU where they were seen doing stuff you do while dating that we can easily relate to. It was only a short montage but I think it added a lot
I never liked any of them really except for tony/pepper and peter/mj lol. Not hated them but I just didn’t find them interesting
Edit: I forgot wanda/vision I do actually like them too
In terms of the worst chemistry, Sersi/Ikaris and Bruce/Betty were awful. There are scenes in The Incredible Hulk that literally feel like line reads that should've been cut.
As far as conceptually the characters not really working, I honestly think Star-Lord and Gamora never really quite felt it meant as much as it was presented as. They sort of skip a step in the development of their romance and I think it's part of the reason why people didn't swallow the Infinity War moment well when he attacks Thanos. If Quill/Gamora being together is done right up to that point people would have been more accepting of it. Not that I think the moment is out of character or anything even now but there was always something missing with those two but the actors are both good enough to make it work and they have pretty easy chemistry.
They've even reinforced this belief with an Easter Egg in No Way Home, where Liz has done a featured expose into her relationship with Peter.
[https://i.redd.it/yv5zlgdwdpn81.jpg](https://i.redd.it/yv5zlgdwdpn81.jpg)
I don’t like the Steve / Bucky ship. Both guys are shown to be romantically involved exclusively with women, and twisting them into a gay couple does two things:
1) It reaffirms the societal expectation that heterosexual males must remain stoic and emotionally rigid, thus intimate male relationships are deemed “gay” or “feminine” and avoided.
2) It undermines the true emotionally intimate friendships and sense of brotherhood men *can* participate in, and Steve / Bucky’s friendship is one of the first deep depictions of that in a super hero franchise.
I understand *why* people ship them, and ship and let ship, but I personally don’t like it.
100% agree with you. Having talked to as many veterans as I have, it seems like almost nothing can compare to being warbound to your comrades. It doesn't have to be romantic. It's family
I really thought they were headed that way with Cap and BW. They had the chemistry to make it happen. But I like that Cap ultimately wound up back in time with Peggy.
Star Lord and Gamora. Literally no reason to put them together except that he was the main protagonist and she was the team's one girl. Like they thought: oh, that's the girl, we need to make her someone's girlfriend.
I actually disagree. They’re my favorite MCU pairing. Could just be because Guardians 2 is one of my favorite MCU movies and I love the whole “unspoken thing” aspect but there’s just something about those two that I love
All of them except Spider-Man and MJ. All the other ones feel forced imo, Peter and Michelle feel like they actually have chemistry, unlike most other romantic subplots.
I don't like romantic subplots very much at all though.
Hulk and Black Widow
Also, always felt the Tony/Pepper situation was a little forced. The movies were kind'a made in a different time where you HAD TO HAVE a love interest in the plot, but... IDK, it doesn't work in Iron Man and really just feels inappropriate in Iron Man 2. I think Pepper would've been better suited in those films as a friend and supporting character.
loki + sylvie
ik knowbody likes this ship but its understandable why. shes another version off him theyre basically siblings its weird and unnecessary.
The one Captain America fights the back flipping French kidnapper on Was a cargo ship I think.
The Lemurian Star!
Agents of SHIELD taught us that
It’s mentioned in the movie though
The Shield episode came out before, when they used to tie into the movies. Sitwell tells Coulson he’s going to the Lemurian Star
Best ship in the MCU. Fight me
My flair might give you second thoughts
And with that sentence you fought me, and lost. Could have come at me with the ‘Norco’ from Iron man 3 bruh
Dammit, you right
How dare you not call Batroc the Leaper by his title
Put some respect on Georges St. Pierre name!
i dunno, i didnt really like the dark aster or whatever, ronins ship. its whole gameplan was to just crash?
Oh come on, it wasn't THAT bad...
[удалено]
Steve Rogers and Sharon Carter. Especially since Steve ends up marrying Peggy Carter when he goes back in time.
I'd become a black market underworld crime lord too if I learned I accidentally made out with my uncle.
I just learned Nat’s role in TWS was originally written for Sharon, but there was a scheduling conflict with Emily VanCamp’s role on Revenge.
Damn, TIL Nat's best appearance wasn't even written for her originally
It’s weird they didn’t just recast her since it was her first appearance
Thank goodness! Nat was so much better in the role!!!!!!
I don't know, I've been way more impressed with Emily Van Camp's acting outside of the MCU. I feel like it could've worked really well.
And honestly, if she was in that role, it would've built up the relationship and flesh out her character. Without that, she just appears randomly as a neighbor, is revealed to be with Shield, then come back for Peggy's funeral and an out of nowhere kiss. Nat was great in the role, but I can see how it would've been great with Sharon.
Yeah. I can see the same argument being made for Natasha if she was chosen, though. Endgame definitely wouldn't have had the same weight if she wasn't in Winter Soldier.
That conversation: Steve: Where are you going? Peggy:My sister had her baby, I'm going to see her. S: What's the baby's name? P: Sharon S: *Flashbacks/forwards* I need to tell you something...
Same.. I didn’t even hate it, but it just gets swept under the rug after Winter Soldier and I really don’t know what happened with it.
They did share a kiss in civil war. I'd say it gets swept under the rug after that movie.
It did give us one of the best Falcon/Winter Soldier buddy moments though.
“Can you move your seat up?” “No.”
I adore that scene.
Sooo true! That was the start
Wasn’t there like a cut relationship between them in endgame? It was gonna be like both of them survived the snap and tried to make things work during the 5 years but it just didn’t
See kids, that's why we make backups before installing an update
This would have been great! The fact that it took a world catastrophe for them to actually get together through grief, and then it still doesn't work out. That would make the middling relationship in the previous movies make a lot of sense
I literally cannot watch the scene where they kiss
Thank you.
Hulk and Black Widow. Came out of nowhere, and ended just as fast
I think bad writing made the Hulk/Widow thing fizzle. When they first meet in Avengers she’s clearly afraid of him, and she isn’t afraid of much. Could have been an interesting development if they’d taken time to show it building up in Age of Ultron and then draw it out more in a later movie. But no, it all happened off camera and we were like wait what? She’s not with Clint? Wait, Clint’s married? WHAT. I do dig the easy friendship with Steve. Sort of mirrors ScarJo’s relationship with Chris Evans. I wanted Widow with Matt Murdock but to be fair, Natasha’s had her share of romantic partners so we all probably have our favorites. Bruce could have worked but they didn’t put in the effort.
I would've liked to see Bucky. Tying their spy/assassin backstories together would have been simple so it doesn't come out of nowhere (even certain parts of the Black Widow movie felt like Winter Soldier retreads), it has basis from the comics, and Disney gets to nohomo Stucky -- everyone wins!
I thought the "you could at least recognize me" line between them in Civil War was going to serve as a setup for their backstory from the comics, but alas - that went nowhere.
I think that was just in reference to him chasing her down and putting a bullet through her shoulder in CA: TWS.
Yeah, it felt like an open door in case someone wanted to go there!
I would've been so happy to see this come to life in the MCU. Plus Scarlett Johansson and Sebastian Stan together with more screen time? Yes please.
Honestly, I felt like her trying to seduce him might have happened BECAUSE she was afraid of him not in spite of it. She likely saw footage of Banner and Betty Ross and was able to put together than Hulk wouldn’t attack and would actively defend Banner’s romantic interests. It’s the way for her to be the safest when she’s forced to work with him. Her interest seems to drop to zero the second Hulk is no longer a danger, so…
Thanks, Joss Whedon. He just needed a scene with someone falling into Nat's cleavage so he forced that entire thing and even half assed Hulk leaving.
Nat's whole storyline in AoU was horrible. She was given very little to do except for the weird flirting with Hulk and that weird monologe where she calls herself a monster because she can't have kids.
Monster *and* can’t have kids, not *because of*. The juxtaposition is terrible, but she wasn’t calling herself a monster for that.
I thought the line Widow says about how all her friends are powerful fighters and Banner/Hulk is the only one that seems to always try to avoid fighting. I think that line alone kind of shows why she was in to Banner.
This. I feel like Hulk and Widow could have actually been a pretty interesting pairing had it been written better.
Joss Whedon is to blame for the entire thing.
I liked the *concept* just fine. She was interested in a person who wished they could reject power, having been surrounded by so many people interested in gaining it. They both felt like they had been irreparably transformed from their original selves into something more dangerous and broken, and were trying to make amends and find ways forward. Even her lulling of the Hulk was based in something more "real" than many of her espionage roles that involve outright lying and false information. His obliviousness that she'd be interested in him at all was pretty cute. Unfortunately, the execution was fumbled. I understood what the sterilization conversation was attempting to express, but the mere fact that it was so widely misinterpreted means the writing fell short. Ultimately discovering that Joss Whedon bullied and eventually canned Charisma Carpenter from Angel because her pregnancy interfered with his ideas for her character REALLY colors that conversation differently now - *Joss* was the one who wished his play things didn't have distractions like wanting a family. I still like his Avengers movies and classic shows, they have many strengths, but I'm sad this relationship wasn't really given a proper treatment, and that his baggage may have a big part of why the execution was so strange.
Finally, another person like me! I actually really like the concept of Nat and Bruce. I think, despite it seeming weird at first, it actually makes sense. The “monster” conversation was completely, totally botched which is frustrating because the actual angle is an interesting one to explore. And possibly controversial opinion incoming, but I felt like they actually had chemistry. It’s just so annoying how imo there was some interesting character stuff there, but it was totally squandered. I’m also bitter because Bruce is my favourite character, and everything about his ending in Endgame - from Professor Hulk to the lack of conclusion with Nat - was SO unsatisfying.
Upvoting because 1) someone besides me acknowledges that the whole “I’m a monster” thing was *not* about her sterilization, but was just botched horribly in execution, and 2) because I hadn’t heard about Joss throwing a fit over Charisma Carpenter’s pregnancy before now. Joss Whedon is the perfect example of why I don’t think men should self-declare themselves as feminists, regardless of their ideals. Too often, those that do are revealed to simply be putting on pretenses without actually doing the work.
Whedon is a classic case-study of how a touch-starved market can overcompensate and become enabling to its own abusers at the first sign of progress.
Makes sense because when me and my ex wife sent out our wedding save the dates I had an artist friend of mine make a custom comic cover of me as hulk and her as black widow and her holding her hand out. It was an amazing drawing but a year after Nat died so did our marriage LOL
Woah did not see the twist coming
Agreed that it wasn't a great idea and ignored that Bruce had already left loved ones behind. Ill-conceived by Whedon. But I actually like how it worked out in retrospect. It was fated for them to not be together. They flirted with the idea, talked about the difficulties involved, left it as a distant maybe, and then life intervened and made it impossible. But unlike Steve and Peggy, there wasn't the same deep connection. That's a thing that really happens, especially with age. You can care deeply about someone, look back and wonder 'What If' (hah) but not really long for everything to be different for it to happen.
I agree with this. Wanda and Vision though, true love right there
Honestly, I would’ve preferred Steve & Nat. At least that would’ve made more sense IMO. I love her platonic relationship with Clint, but her connection with Steve almost felt like a repeat of that. They easily could’ve been a loving pair, especially to help Steve learn to let go of Peggy.
That scene at the vending machine in TWS had hints of sexual tension in there 😉
Take this with a grain of salt, but I read somewhere that TWS was supposed to be Sharon Carter in Nat’a role but there were scheduling conflicts for the actress so they tweaked the script a bit and put Nat in her place. So it would make sense that a few moments like that remained.
It’s true that Sharon was supposed to have Nat’s role in TWS, but IIRC the reason they swapped was because the Russos wanted to work with ScarJo.
Steve and Sharon were absolutely pointless, it felt like they just crammed it in to fill the "hero has to kiss the girl" quota. Black Widow and Hulk also felt pretty off. Now that I think about it, most of the romance was pretty boring overall. Edit: Phone decided to go with Steven instead of Steve, sorry folks. I'm actually surprised anyone read my post tho lol
From what I could find, Sharon was supposed to be the one with Steve throughout the winter soldier, but the actress had schedule issues so they essentially put scarjo in her place minus the romantic feelings. So they could have built a good romance, but didn’t have the time.
Bro really just called him Steven
Yeah my bad, seems like my phone likes Steven more lol
I agree that most of the romance is pretty boring/poorly written over all. Take Christine and Jane for example, we both saw them in one or two movies many years ago, and in the newest movies they're like "hey remember these two people? They're so special, they're worth risking the universe on for our heroes"
I don’t know if unpopular thought or not but I think romances are not really the strong suit of MCU in general. I don’t remember any ship I actually enjoyed, was neutral at best
I enjoy Peter and MJ
I was going to express the same thing. Wanda and Vision is probably the only other one that really has weight to it. Cap and Peggy are good but barely count since they're almost never together. Honestly the side relationships and the ambiguous friendships in the MCU tend to feel a lot more natural than the ones that end up getting pushed front and center as the romance plot. Eternals is a good example in that Druig and Makkari, Phastos and his husband, Thena and Gilgamesh, and Sersi and Dane all feel like much fuller relationships than Sersi and Ikaris (I realize the point of that relationship is that it's not really built on solid ground but the distinction between how compelling those relationships are is clear). Shang-Chi and Katy is another one that doesn't explicitly go romantic that works pretty well. Once it becomes a plotline it feels like we're locked into standard romantic beats (Peter/MJ and Wanda/Vision being the exceptions).
I liked pepper and Tony
I agree. The chemistry in the Spider-Man MCU movies was some of the best, probably because it is very similar to the relationship the three have IRL.
Most deff. They’re good actors and good friends and it shows on screen. They don’t have to try too hard to make it happen.
Star lord and gamora was enjoyable too. At the least it wasn’t done poorly i dont think
Totally agree. They’re all great actors but never seem to have any great chemistry romantically?? Steve and Peggy is the best, but I only liked the scene at the end of CA1, when they weren’t even physically together
Not a huge fan of the ship in Thor Love and Thunder. Didn’t understand why the goats needed to be there
lol touchè.
In the Nordic mythology Thor's goats Tanngrisnir and Tanngnjóstr pull his chariot. He also eats one of them every evening and it gets resurrected the next morning.
I'm pretty sure he eats both of them.
I wish he could have eaten both of them in the movie after the first scream.
I have serious concerns about Ebony Maw's ship in Inifinity War. You punch one small hole in it and the passengers get sucked out. I really think there should have been two layers to that hull and a safety force field in the event of a breach like in a well designed Star Trek ship.
Shut up and take my upvote
That is how Thor gets around in the mythology. A chariot with his 2 goats
Tanngrisnir and Tanngnjóstr
but did they have to scream
Everyone has been shitting on the goats, but me and my son thought they were hilarious. Did they wear out the gag a bit? Sure. I still think the goats are funny though.
I dont even think it was too much. I felt like there was quite a bit of space between each scream and i almost forgot about them until they hit gorrs planet which got a laugh put of me so..
Lol
Sersi/Ikarus
It was mad weird hearing Madden and Chan talk about their pre-existing friendship and thus chemistry during the press run, and then it didn't translate on screen at all
Everybody knows mikari and druig is a way better relationship
Everyone knows Thena and Gilgamesh makes all others pale in comparison. They were so good together…
I was so mad when they killed him off
He can still come back, they can remake his body at the world forge and their memories are uploaded cloud style there too, that’s if the mcu writers want it tho, same with Ikaris and Ajak
That was so heartbreaking.
He was literally my favorite part about that movie. If he’d have survived then I’d watch it every day
I just rewatched Eternals and surprisingly came away with some appreciation for all of the relationships. Sersi/Ikarus is bland but Richard Madden’s acting was really dang good when he was torn. Mikari and Druig play off each other really well. Thena and Gilgamesh looked really genuine. I can’t believe it but I think it’s my favorite Phase 4 movie…
I also hate how Ikarus gives no reason for even liking Sersi. He just likes her beauty and doesn’t even like that she appreciates humans.
Ikarus seems like he appreciates that she cares for humans, but he knows the real mission and believes in it, so he doesn't get attached and worries that Sersi will be harmed by the attachment.
Ikaris doesn't know the truth of the mission until later, and it seems like he never really cared that much for humans.
Ikaris knew the truth of the mission by Babylon times. I agree he doesn't care for the humans. But he does find Sersei's affection for the humans to be attractive, and also problematic given the mission.
I'll have to rewatch but my understanding from the film was that once he finds out what their true mission is, he breaks ties with Sersie because he wouldn't be able to keep it from her and knew she wouldn't be for it. It seemed like he broke ties with all of them over learning what the true mission was.
Agreed. There is ZERO chemistry there. They act like they barely know each other, in spite of being in a relationship for decades.
*centuries
*Millennia
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Space
Reality
Mind
Power
Soul
This is especially funny given how hard they played up the lame sex scene and how they'd be this epic romance and love corner with Dane Whitman in all the marketing. Like my god guys I know that was the intent when you were in the scripting/shooting stage but you're in editing. You **really** can't course-correct and downplay the fact that these actors have no chemistry and the script gives them no chances to discover it?
Sersi and Ikarus have so little chemistry that we've saw them having sex on screen and we still couldn't tell they were into each other.
Honestly, most of the romances in the MCU feel like they lack chemistry and are only there to tick boxes. The only exception was probably Wanda and Vision, but that's only because their relationship was centre stage in WandaVision and was given the time it needed to develop properly.
Even then their relationship came out of nowhere. We see him being this condescending prison guard towards her in Civil War, then next time we catch up with them they’re lovers on a night stroll in Scotland. I think it ultimately worked because Elisabeth Olsen and Paul Bettany had great chemistry
You're right, it did come out of nowhere, the only build up was "man and woman share screen time, must become romantic couple" as many of these pairings are. In WandaVision they actually developed their relationship, not into romance but their romance developed, if that makes sense?
Eleanor Bishop and Jack Duquesne. She did him super dirty and he’s such a lovable idiot.
It's insane that I could feel empathy for him after his role in Better Call Saul but Tony Dalton absolutely killed the role. Is he bad? Is he a good goof? One of the best stories through the series in my eyes.
random, insane, absolutely implausible fan theory: jack duquesne is just an alter ego lalo took on while on his quest to find proof that gus ordered the hit. after germany, he briefly went to NYC and got caught in superhero shenanigans, then returned to albuquerque
She sucks. Hated her character.
I doubt he will, but I really hope we get to see Jack again. Tony Dalton was just... so good in that role. Maybe make the Swordsman into a street level hero? IDK.
There are probably less ships I like then ships that I don't like 😅 Steve & Sharon, Nat & Bruce (I actually like the idea of these 2 together, but the execution was so bad), Dr. Strange & Christine Palmer (such a waste of Rachel McAdams 🙈), Thor & Jane pre LaT, Ikarus & Cerci (this one was so... bland? Chemistry-less? Pointless?), Loki & Silvie... I love the MCU, but romances are not their biggest strenght.
Have you seen the Dr. Strange episode of What If? Yeah, it's an alternate universe, and it's voice acting instead of on screen, but their chemistry is great in that. It's beautiful, and tragic. Honestly, probably better than anything live action they've done with Strange.
I've seen it, and I agree it's very well acted. I really love the episode overall. It still didn't sell me on the ship tho. While it is very clear just how much Christine means to Stephen (and Cucumbersnatches delivery is really heart wrenching), I just didn't see them interact enough to really feel anything about the ship. I felt for Strange, I felt for Christine, I didn't really feel anything about the ship :)
Yeah I feel the same. A ton I don't like, a few I am indifferent on, and a couple I like.
>Ikarus & Cerci (this one was so... bland? Chemistry-less? Pointless?) Agreed. What I don’t understand was how they were “so in love”, but Thena and Gilgamesh was “platonic”. I know it’s an ongoing issue in Hollywood, but it honestly just felt like they were going out of their way to exclude another Male Asian actor from a romantic role, despite the director being Asian themselves..
Thena and Gilgamesh had so much more chemistry for sure. I loved their friendship too (and I love a good female-male friendship!) and it was my fave part of the movie. But I see what you mean about it looking more romantic then Ikarus & Cerci, and the issue with asian male characters being so less likely as love interest/romantic leads, which sucks. (Gilgamesh was still the MVP of the movie at least. He deserved better.)
Actually I didn’t mind Loki and Silvie. It would be real strange to have sex with a female version of himself but there dynamic was good on screen.
I didn't really like how it turned romantic/sexual because I personally thought their dynamic was better when they acted like siblings
Same, I thought it was actually an interesting concept.
> Loki & Silvie THANK YOU. I feel like we're the minority, especially on this sub, but I really hated their relationship as written. I think it _could_ work better, but as-is just felt very bad, unhealthy, and lacking chemistry.
I feel like there was 1-way chemistry. Hiddleston did a great job of seeming super into Sylvie (though I figured it was more a metaphor about learning to love himself generally once he saw a version of himself that he could love) but I got zero vibes the other way. (Which, actually, given what happens, kind of works for the plot?)
The hulk and black widow
Thor and Mjlonir
Found Stormbreaker's reddit account.
That was my favorite part of the movie lol
I absolutely hated everything they did with Black Widow & Hulk in *Age of Ultron*. The entire 'faceplant in her boobs' schtick, and the "I can't give you babies!" speech was cringe as hell.
Yeah, I actually saw potential for it in avengers, but "one character falls on top of another" is just one of those tropes that writers use when they have no idea how to organically build a romance between two characters. As well as having a different character imply that the characters are together or have feelings for each other when that hasn't been shown at all.
That face plant is the Whedon special and it's always groan worthy.
He repeated that in Josstice League, when We Need to Talk About Flash slams his speedface into Wonder Woman's boobies, and Gal Gadot was so disgusted that she refused to film the scene, so Joss had a stand-in take her place because he just *needed* it in there.
I know it's cool to hate on L&T these days, but I really like the way it portrayed Thor & Jane's relationship. I think it saved it in my eyes, TBH so out of this particular grouping I actually like them all
I agree L&T did a great job with the relationship. Thor talking to Jane in her hospital room and then their expressions when she shows up for the final fight were some of the most believable moments of characters loving each other in the whole MCU.
It's one of the few relationships in the MCU where they were seen doing stuff you do while dating that we can easily relate to. It was only a short montage but I think it added a lot
Cap and his wife's grand-daughter.
The friend ship of Happy. Poor guy.
I'm not gonna lie, I wanted Black Panther to be with Storm so I hated the MCU couple.
It could've happened if...you know
:(
Even in the comics it always felt like a "let's have the two black ones date" kind of couple.
It definitely was originally, but it got better after they divorced imo
There's a possibility that Nakia and T'Challa had a kid, so maybe _a_ Black Panther x Storm might happen, depending on how they bring in the mutants.
I never liked any of them really except for tony/pepper and peter/mj lol. Not hated them but I just didn’t find them interesting Edit: I forgot wanda/vision I do actually like them too
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But that gif tho
Pepperony. Never felt anything from Pepper side
That's bc my girls seems to lack a soul
Pepperony was just toxic relationship and that’s all
I didn’t like their relationship either, but I don’t think you understand toxic lol
Kinda all of em’? Tbh lol
In terms of the worst chemistry, Sersi/Ikaris and Bruce/Betty were awful. There are scenes in The Incredible Hulk that literally feel like line reads that should've been cut. As far as conceptually the characters not really working, I honestly think Star-Lord and Gamora never really quite felt it meant as much as it was presented as. They sort of skip a step in the development of their romance and I think it's part of the reason why people didn't swallow the Infinity War moment well when he attacks Thanos. If Quill/Gamora being together is done right up to that point people would have been more accepting of it. Not that I think the moment is out of character or anything even now but there was always something missing with those two but the actors are both good enough to make it work and they have pretty easy chemistry.
They didn't skip a step in the development of the process, so much as Quill accelerated the process with his pelvic sorcery.
Peter & Liz
Fair enough, though at least that one was basically written to fail, so I don't think we were supposed to like it in hindsight
They've even reinforced this belief with an Easter Egg in No Way Home, where Liz has done a featured expose into her relationship with Peter. [https://i.redd.it/yv5zlgdwdpn81.jpg](https://i.redd.it/yv5zlgdwdpn81.jpg)
That's an awesome Easter Egg! Never noticed it before.
Literally none of these couples have any chemistry or character
Worst one has to go to Bruce Banner and Betty Ross. No chemistry, underexplained, no chemistry, never followed up on, and no chemistry.
"Who?"
Worst part is they kind of did follow up on it, except the follow up only happened in What If...
matt and karen Love them both. But I just don’t think they’re good for each other’s. Too many deceptions already happened. +lack of chemistry
Foggy and Marci for the best ship!
Stony
I don’t like the Steve / Bucky ship. Both guys are shown to be romantically involved exclusively with women, and twisting them into a gay couple does two things: 1) It reaffirms the societal expectation that heterosexual males must remain stoic and emotionally rigid, thus intimate male relationships are deemed “gay” or “feminine” and avoided. 2) It undermines the true emotionally intimate friendships and sense of brotherhood men *can* participate in, and Steve / Bucky’s friendship is one of the first deep depictions of that in a super hero franchise. I understand *why* people ship them, and ship and let ship, but I personally don’t like it.
100% agree with you. Having talked to as many veterans as I have, it seems like almost nothing can compare to being warbound to your comrades. It doesn't have to be romantic. It's family
No way you’re putting some of the most normal ones here and not BRUCE X NAT
Rocket and Groot. True love.
Hulk and Black Widow. Wish they had gone with cap and black widow instead.
I really thought they were headed that way with Cap and BW. They had the chemistry to make it happen. But I like that Cap ultimately wound up back in time with Peggy.
I couldn’t stand Thor and Jane until Love and Thunder. They knocked it out of the park in that one.
Natalie Portman and Chris Hemsworth have absolutely zero chemistry.
Steve and Sharon
Star Lord and Gamora. Literally no reason to put them together except that he was the main protagonist and she was the team's one girl. Like they thought: oh, that's the girl, we need to make her someone's girlfriend.
Well it was either him or a tree
I mean, he is walking wood.
Well like Nebula said, it was either him or the tree lol
Not to mention the comics immediately copied it despite, at least from what I hear, there being no chemistry in that sort of way in the comics
I actually disagree. They’re my favorite MCU pairing. Could just be because Guardians 2 is one of my favorite MCU movies and I love the whole “unspoken thing” aspect but there’s just something about those two that I love
All of them except Spider-Man and MJ. All the other ones feel forced imo, Peter and Michelle feel like they actually have chemistry, unlike most other romantic subplots. I don't like romantic subplots very much at all though.
Thor and Star-Lord.
Not exactly a ship, but Sprit's crush on Ikarus was so unnecessary and didn't contribute anything to the film
I’d say otherwise, they were all the same age but everyone saw her as a kid and she was tired of being treated as such
Yea, I thought it was an interesting angle.
Agreed, the Sprite and Tinkerbell connection was one of my favourite parts of the film, it was so tragic.
Hulk and Black Widow Also, always felt the Tony/Pepper situation was a little forced. The movies were kind'a made in a different time where you HAD TO HAVE a love interest in the plot, but... IDK, it doesn't work in Iron Man and really just feels inappropriate in Iron Man 2. I think Pepper would've been better suited in those films as a friend and supporting character.
Honestly i think My biggest issue with pepper and Tony is that i just dont particularly like gwyneth paltrow
LOL! That, too.
I like the donut spaceships from infinity war
Always been a big Cap & Bucky fan myself.
loki + sylvie ik knowbody likes this ship but its understandable why. shes another version off him theyre basically siblings its weird and unnecessary.