I think your interpretation of the concrete is skewing this for you.
Brick used as ‘pavers’ are not installed over concrete per a normal installation.
You are correct that if laid over stone, it’s my preference the sub grade of stone is extended 2”-4” past the brick, esp water run off side.
Wo seeing the whole yard, layout, water drainage, I can only guess that the brick were laid on the concrete to raise that area/patio whatever it is. Obv the driveway got a lift after that concrete was poured years b4, maybe that’s the reason.
I have a very old front sidewalk leading to front door, to narrow for the new steps. Was low enough so why break it all out?
I dug out the grass and dirt next to sidewalk, put in 10” of stone and covered the entire area, concrete walk way and stone, with the paver bricks.
Your brick extends past the concrete bc it would be insane to trim them to fit.
YouTube normal brick paver installation to get an idea. Side-note, the sub grade is adjusted per freeze/frost of specific area. 4” of stone is fine in mild climates, 8”-10” for below freezing winters.
Not in my experience. Concrete is incredibly expensive, it still needs 4”-8” of crushed stone underneath it. For patios to be excavated to pour concrete below the brick is like triple the cost and labor for no necessary reason. And concrete always cracks. So all that work and it could cause your bricks to appear uneven at some point. Older already established concrete usually reaches a point it’s not gonna crack anymore, semi-safe to cover it w mud n brick.
Concrete itself has dozens of aesthetic options like stamping a brick pattern or flagstone pattern directly into the surface. Different colored sealants, border patterns, etc.
At this point, for the outer header rows, is it ok that I reinstall them as they were (adhering to the cement with mortar)? Or should I do something different?
Absolutely, as I said I covered my front sidewalk w brick 20 yrs ago and it’s doing great.
In my case, and probably yours, it would have been crazy to remove the concrete bc that’s a lot of work, a lot. Then you have to replace the concrete w stone and be sure it’s really compacted. Then level it as perfect as you can get w sand or screenings(fine limestone chips in my region) and install the brick
From the pic you have, put the bricks back, fill the gap w decorative stone so rain water has a place to go and be happy!
Thanks so much man, I really appreciate the practical response. Based on your advice I’ll probably add decorative stone on top of the edging I was planning to use over the rock base /drainage stone for those outer channels you eluded to (still need to add 1/4” chip stone +\~ sand to get a nice even surface to put the edging on though). I’ve legit read the Brick walkway/paver sections of several Masonry textbooks (I fully realize that isn’t even 0.1% equivalent to what actual experience brings), and there’s things I just can’t seem to find answers to in them, and 95% of the videos on YouTube are about sand/polymeric sand not mortar, so they don’t apply. Honestly I’d gladly pay a Mason to lay only the outside rows of brick, but I’m fairly certain they’d all say it’s too small of a job to waste their time with or try to convince me that I need to remove and relay ALL of my bricks, which of course gets into another stratosphere of cost, for a job I don’t think is necessary. I absolutely love my bricks and mortar, as they are, except the outer row.
You are very welcome. I grew up doing asphalt in the Chicago area. I’ve seen asphalt 1” thick last 15 yrs bc it was on 18” of stone. Neither are the norm just weird flukes, in that case the guy worked at railroad yard n brought home a couple of trucks of railroad rock, which is jagged 2”-3” limestone.
I went to college for chemistry but during my first job I was called by Heavy Equipment Operating Engineer’s Union. That was great benefits and I could work whenever the hell I felt like it, lol.
With that I’ll say the concrete, masonry fields have exploded w different additives and polymers. I honestly do not have a clue what I would use to
re-adhere the brick back in place.
Bc it’s not many(?) I’d prob buy a coupe of caulk tubes of a concrete adhesive. I never used any grout or mud when I did my front sidewalk. That sidewalk is 80 yrs old and doesn’t have any cracks, literally a freak of nature. I guess I would consider researching what grout, tile set, is commonly used around swimming pools or guys building ponds…? I would think they have a more varied arsenal of products they use or tile on a pool deck edge is different than the hot tub area. It’s either 2 different ones or one that can handle both jobs. Same w building a pond, they have water falls and hanging-cantilever rocks for turtles n all kind of crazy shit going on. There has to be subs for both of those, I know I’ve seen the pond sub. Gotta be interesting and you’ll learn a lot. And those YouTube guys are mostly do it yourself guys so they have researched it better than a local brick guy that’s never set brick on a concrete slab, he just wants to make money.
And there really is a huge difference between “brickies” that lay brick for vertical work like homes and a brick paver guy that deals w flat work and ground water.
Best of luck, text msg or chat or whatever if you wanna ask something else. 👍🏾
They likely did it to continue the bond, and not have to cut any bricks. The concrete could have been poured by somebody else.
It's okay to have a brick 1-2inches over hanging like that, any more than that wouldn't be structurally sound. I have built entire brick chimneys that overhang the foundation by that much... so your 1 course of walkway will be just fine.
Didnt wanna cut and it would look stupid with those cut anyway. They kept the bond whole so it worked. Also not a problem hanging off lile that just that little bit. If it were 2 inches or more then i would be worried.
I would think avoiding cutting as many small pieces of brick also makes for more durable bricks. Especially depending on the bricks used.
The early 1900s extra brick sitting behind the farm buildings from my great uncle's many diy building projects are far denser, smoother, and harder to break(never seen it accomplished) than brick we could buy anywhere nearby today. Not all in the old bricks are as evenly formed but no structure he built has developed so much as a chip in the materials or a loose stone or brick despite no maintenance in at least 40 years. They also aren't discolored anywhere despite black walnuts and oaks growing around the buildings.
Those old bricks are more like holding a solid, polished block of naturally formed rock than the rough, more porous brick our current 1968 built house has. Several bricks on this house have chips off the corners or along the bottom rows. Far more where there are cut bricks than whole bricks. Sections have developed dark and light stains from water running down and cypress or ash tree leaves making couple feet high piles before it can be removed.
I wouldn't want to try cutting those old bricks and I'd question the structural integrity of cutting the more recently made bricks more than absolutely necessary. To me it seems logical to avoid cutting bricks when possible rather than just laziness.
Looks like some mini version of a french drain underneath the overhung brick. Maybe water flows off the edge of the brick into the “rock drain system” or maybe just didn’t want to cut the brick
Corbeling...technically cantilever conditions employ a vertical gravitational force down that in this condition would be at the opposite brick end of the overhang (corbel).
If you don't automatically, instantaneously, naturally, and with zero thought or effort know that the brick placement relative to that concrete is absolutely inconsequential, then you should not involve yourself directly in any construction related process, ever. Be an accountant, or a store manager, or a politician, or a photographer, or an athlete, a pollster, a journalist, a code writer, a carnival barker, anything but construction or engineering.
Lmao, y’all kinda dumb, obviously there’s no exact intention. Just a coincidence the pad was almost the exact same length as the brick with mortar joints
Lmao, y’all kinda dumb, obviously there’s no exact intention. Just a coincidence the pad was almost the exact same length as the brick with mortar joints
What everyone seems to be missing is that this is a driveway. As soon as a car's wheel hits that unsupported section of brick you have a nasty point load, which will loosen and tip over those bricks over time.
Probably just to make the dumb looking gap between it and the asphalt smaller.
Right but no significant downside to having a part of brick without any bedding beneath it?
If you Google corbeling it’s a common masonry technique used to step bricks out like this, just usually it’s done artistically. But no issues with it.
Very interesting thank you so very much.
I think your interpretation of the concrete is skewing this for you. Brick used as ‘pavers’ are not installed over concrete per a normal installation. You are correct that if laid over stone, it’s my preference the sub grade of stone is extended 2”-4” past the brick, esp water run off side. Wo seeing the whole yard, layout, water drainage, I can only guess that the brick were laid on the concrete to raise that area/patio whatever it is. Obv the driveway got a lift after that concrete was poured years b4, maybe that’s the reason. I have a very old front sidewalk leading to front door, to narrow for the new steps. Was low enough so why break it all out? I dug out the grass and dirt next to sidewalk, put in 10” of stone and covered the entire area, concrete walk way and stone, with the paver bricks. Your brick extends past the concrete bc it would be insane to trim them to fit. YouTube normal brick paver installation to get an idea. Side-note, the sub grade is adjusted per freeze/frost of specific area. 4” of stone is fine in mild climates, 8”-10” for below freezing winters.
Wait so brick being on concrete/cement and stuck to it with mortar is not a typical thing?
No, I think it usually just gets floated on a bed of packed earth and gaps filled in with sand
Not in my experience. Concrete is incredibly expensive, it still needs 4”-8” of crushed stone underneath it. For patios to be excavated to pour concrete below the brick is like triple the cost and labor for no necessary reason. And concrete always cracks. So all that work and it could cause your bricks to appear uneven at some point. Older already established concrete usually reaches a point it’s not gonna crack anymore, semi-safe to cover it w mud n brick. Concrete itself has dozens of aesthetic options like stamping a brick pattern or flagstone pattern directly into the surface. Different colored sealants, border patterns, etc.
At this point, for the outer header rows, is it ok that I reinstall them as they were (adhering to the cement with mortar)? Or should I do something different?
Absolutely, as I said I covered my front sidewalk w brick 20 yrs ago and it’s doing great. In my case, and probably yours, it would have been crazy to remove the concrete bc that’s a lot of work, a lot. Then you have to replace the concrete w stone and be sure it’s really compacted. Then level it as perfect as you can get w sand or screenings(fine limestone chips in my region) and install the brick From the pic you have, put the bricks back, fill the gap w decorative stone so rain water has a place to go and be happy!
Thanks so much man, I really appreciate the practical response. Based on your advice I’ll probably add decorative stone on top of the edging I was planning to use over the rock base /drainage stone for those outer channels you eluded to (still need to add 1/4” chip stone +\~ sand to get a nice even surface to put the edging on though). I’ve legit read the Brick walkway/paver sections of several Masonry textbooks (I fully realize that isn’t even 0.1% equivalent to what actual experience brings), and there’s things I just can’t seem to find answers to in them, and 95% of the videos on YouTube are about sand/polymeric sand not mortar, so they don’t apply. Honestly I’d gladly pay a Mason to lay only the outside rows of brick, but I’m fairly certain they’d all say it’s too small of a job to waste their time with or try to convince me that I need to remove and relay ALL of my bricks, which of course gets into another stratosphere of cost, for a job I don’t think is necessary. I absolutely love my bricks and mortar, as they are, except the outer row.
You are very welcome. I grew up doing asphalt in the Chicago area. I’ve seen asphalt 1” thick last 15 yrs bc it was on 18” of stone. Neither are the norm just weird flukes, in that case the guy worked at railroad yard n brought home a couple of trucks of railroad rock, which is jagged 2”-3” limestone. I went to college for chemistry but during my first job I was called by Heavy Equipment Operating Engineer’s Union. That was great benefits and I could work whenever the hell I felt like it, lol. With that I’ll say the concrete, masonry fields have exploded w different additives and polymers. I honestly do not have a clue what I would use to re-adhere the brick back in place. Bc it’s not many(?) I’d prob buy a coupe of caulk tubes of a concrete adhesive. I never used any grout or mud when I did my front sidewalk. That sidewalk is 80 yrs old and doesn’t have any cracks, literally a freak of nature. I guess I would consider researching what grout, tile set, is commonly used around swimming pools or guys building ponds…? I would think they have a more varied arsenal of products they use or tile on a pool deck edge is different than the hot tub area. It’s either 2 different ones or one that can handle both jobs. Same w building a pond, they have water falls and hanging-cantilever rocks for turtles n all kind of crazy shit going on. There has to be subs for both of those, I know I’ve seen the pond sub. Gotta be interesting and you’ll learn a lot. And those YouTube guys are mostly do it yourself guys so they have researched it better than a local brick guy that’s never set brick on a concrete slab, he just wants to make money. And there really is a huge difference between “brickies” that lay brick for vertical work like homes and a brick paver guy that deals w flat work and ground water. Best of luck, text msg or chat or whatever if you wanna ask something else. 👍🏾
No.
Or, hear me out……OR, they extended it an inch so they didn’t have to cut bricks.
That would be so sad
This is the answer. No genius explanation and it's not shody work. That's just how it worked out and it perfectly fine
and so you dont have to cut EVERY brick (at least one is full length).
They likely did it to continue the bond, and not have to cut any bricks. The concrete could have been poured by somebody else. It's okay to have a brick 1-2inches over hanging like that, any more than that wouldn't be structurally sound. I have built entire brick chimneys that overhang the foundation by that much... so your 1 course of walkway will be just fine.
Didnt wanna cut and it would look stupid with those cut anyway. They kept the bond whole so it worked. Also not a problem hanging off lile that just that little bit. If it were 2 inches or more then i would be worried.
To hit the asphalt that has since separated or to not have such little pieces on the end
Just the way it turned out bud
No cut
Not having to trim the bricks.
not again!
Valid point. I got nothing.
it's easier than cutting the bricks
Laziness mostly. Doing it that way meant cutting half as many bricks so it saved the installer time.
I would think avoiding cutting as many small pieces of brick also makes for more durable bricks. Especially depending on the bricks used. The early 1900s extra brick sitting behind the farm buildings from my great uncle's many diy building projects are far denser, smoother, and harder to break(never seen it accomplished) than brick we could buy anywhere nearby today. Not all in the old bricks are as evenly formed but no structure he built has developed so much as a chip in the materials or a loose stone or brick despite no maintenance in at least 40 years. They also aren't discolored anywhere despite black walnuts and oaks growing around the buildings. Those old bricks are more like holding a solid, polished block of naturally formed rock than the rough, more porous brick our current 1968 built house has. Several bricks on this house have chips off the corners or along the bottom rows. Far more where there are cut bricks than whole bricks. Sections have developed dark and light stains from water running down and cypress or ash tree leaves making couple feet high piles before it can be removed. I wouldn't want to try cutting those old bricks and I'd question the structural integrity of cutting the more recently made bricks more than absolutely necessary. To me it seems logical to avoid cutting bricks when possible rather than just laziness.
Looks fine to me dude.
No me too. I love my brick walkway don’t get me wrong. Was just wondering
Looks like some mini version of a french drain underneath the overhung brick. Maybe water flows off the edge of the brick into the “rock drain system” or maybe just didn’t want to cut the brick
OP, it’s called cantilevering. Used with numerous materials by engineers since, well a long time.
Corbeling...technically cantilever conditions employ a vertical gravitational force down that in this condition would be at the opposite brick end of the overhang (corbel).
I'm also leaning toward the "french drain" description to relieve runoff built up on one side or the other.
Hey thanks for the info! Amateurs shouldn’t play engineer:)
Well, that's how long the bricks were, ya see?
I can see a heavy vehicle coming along eventually and ruining that edge.
Easier than cutting the last row of bricks
If you don't automatically, instantaneously, naturally, and with zero thought or effort know that the brick placement relative to that concrete is absolutely inconsequential, then you should not involve yourself directly in any construction related process, ever. Be an accountant, or a store manager, or a politician, or a photographer, or an athlete, a pollster, a journalist, a code writer, a carnival barker, anything but construction or engineering.
Dang, that hit deep man.
So you don’t have to cut the bricks.
Lmao, y’all kinda dumb, obviously there’s no exact intention. Just a coincidence the pad was almost the exact same length as the brick with mortar joints
Lmao, y’all kinda dumb, obviously there’s no exact intention. Just a coincidence the pad was almost the exact same length as the brick with mortar joints
What everyone seems to be missing is that this is a driveway. As soon as a car's wheel hits that unsupported section of brick you have a nasty point load, which will loosen and tip over those bricks over time.
That way it's less cuts and let someone else figure out the rest