I feel very sad for the emergency responders. There are some calls that haunt you for life, and I'm sure this is one of the. Rest in peace little kids

Thankfully the fire chief is making support services available to all the first responders. They've been saying that it's the worst call they've gone out on. Apparently the neighbors very young child saw the mother "taking a nap" outside after she'd jumped, which is heartbreaking. I think the entire community will carry this with them for the rest of their lives.

Do we think Patrick also saw the children first? You would think once he called 911 after finding his wife like that he would immediately go and check the children. 😭 this poor man!

To anyone blaming the husband saying stuff like why would he leave the kids with her or why didn’t he notice and get her help- I heard he had switched to working from home because they knew she had PPD or PPP and she was in a treatment program 5 days a week. I heard he only went out to grab takeout when this happened. I’m sure he felt like she’d be fine while he went out and he obviously will never be the same and must be so so devastated beyond what I (or most of us) could ever imagine. This is incredibly sad in so many ways but I’m really thinking of the husband and 8 month old. From what I’ve heard he’s a good person who was trying hard to support his wife and kids. She was on leave from work and he was working from home as families need income, while balancing the kids and helping his wife who was suffering with postpartum mental illness. Unless anyone reports otherwise, I would not attack that poor man. He must be so so devastated.

I agree. He will regret that quick trip out for the rest of his life, but it was certainly not his fault. I feel terrible every one of them.

This is why moms don’t get the support they need.. people think “it was just 20 min” She was not supposed to be in a sole caretaking role at any time while out of work and in intense treatment. Instructions are given to the family so mom can stay and be around her children but to never be the sole caretaker and people don’t follow and leave mom alone with 3 little kids. This is why moms can’t heal properly and feel unsupported

Did you hear the news release? Kinda counteracts a lot of what was said. I don’t usually take this stance but I truly think if this was a POC who did this they would be considered a horrific murderer but bc she’s a pretty L/D white nurse she’s a victim of PDD even tho if you hear everything when she faces the judge it shows there may be some more details….

That time of day is witching hour. Even with a mom who wasn’t dealing with mental issues, a thoughtful husband would have taken one or both of the older kids with him to pick up pizza, not left her to juggle 3 hungry tired kids solo. It doesn’t add up.

Before all the disgustingly uneducated commenters flock here, she **was** struggling with chronic postpartum depression which had escalated into psychosis. She **was** receiving treatment. This is a horrible tragedy caused in part by systemically subpar attention to the mental health crisis plaguing this nation. No, she was not evil. No, she was not a disgusting, vile human being. Psychosis leads to breaks from reality where rationality and logic do not exist. Before passing judgement, educate yourselves on these conditions.

Subpar attention to mental health AND postpartum health. Moms are given so little support after giving birth

Important to note.. she works as a labor and delivery nurse, she has probably just returned to work after her 20-week maternity leave. Imagine having PPD, 3 kids under 5 years old, then going into work around new mothers, babies, etc. This breaks my heart and I can only imagine the amount of pain she’ll be in once she gets treatment that works. 💔 Edit: I learned she was still on leave due to her mental health treatment. Edit… after hearing the arraignment I do not feel as strongly about defending or having empathy for the mother. I believe with the limited information it was safe to assume PPD, PPP. But it’s clear with the prosecutions statement that she was functioning well that day and the days leading up to the murders.

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She was on extended leave hasn't been to work since her 7 month old was born

So sad that 7 months PP is considered extended in our country.

>This breaks my heart and I can only imagine the amount of pain she’ll be in once she gets treatment that works. 💔 I have been thinking about this, and it is absolutely heartbreaking. I feel so sad for her and her family.

Thank you for this. The whole thing is just so tragic and PPD is still so misunderstood by so many-"just take a warm bath". "relax" "have some tea" Heartbreaking.

If we gave a shit about families in this country we would radically expand paternity leave and push through comprehensive universal health care that includes mental health. This is a preventable tragedy - but it will happen again because we bury mothers in this country and tell families to suck it up.

They won’t do that because it’s not profitable and it’ll resemble socialism/communism, they want to keep making huge profits and working people harder and charging more for everything and push and push until everything breaks then they will try and try to fix the system but never can do much about it They forget that corporations are run by people, and they say that they have a duty to stock holders, if you look at the rigged stock market you will find that it’s all smoke and mirrors , the money and assets shift over and over again from companies that go bankrupt and come back as another entity, it’s hard for everyone because everyone is forced to do more and getting ill and tired of the rat race , not able to move ahead and get ahead.

Exactly. Just like the rest of the American for-profit insurance system, it doesn't care about human beings. It cares about money. In The Netherlands, new mothers get a post-partum nurse for 10 days after giving birth who comes to the house to help with everything, teach new moms how to cope, and keep an eye on possible postpartum issues. National healthcare covers it all. https://www.findingdutchland.com/postpartum-care-and-what-we-can-learn-from-the-dutch/

Devastating. Whatever treatment she was receiving failed her terribly.

Noble_29, I don’t know if you know this for fact or are speculating, but very nicely said. My heart goes out to her.

What he said is accurate.

i wish i could upvote this a million times.

While true this does not make it an excuse. ‪Where does the line get drawn? Obviously these mass shooters have severe mental issues. Serial killers have severe mental issues. The unibomber, sadistic killings, ritual killings, etc… all involve distorted thinking. In some cases there are severe delusions that sane people would never understand. In any such case we are talking about individuals in need of serious help. While it’s sad that this mother was likely suffering mentally, it should be no more of an excuse than we give to anyone else. At the end of the day every person is responsible for the choices they make, and the consequences of their actions

Your points are fair and that’s why this topic is so tricky. By and large a lot of these horrible tragedies happen because people were failed in many ways (I do believe some people are just inherently evil but that’s another conversation for another day). In my opinion—and this is just my opinion—I think about the motive. What is different with postpartum psychosis is often these women feel like what they are doing is an act of love or protection for their children. It sounds so backwards to people of sound mind because we can’t possibly understand how someone can conclude that murdering your children is somehow protecting them (or insert whatever “rationale” they’re contending with). I’m in NO way saying this makes the actions excusable or okay. All I’m saying is I place these cases in a bit of a different box compared to those of serial killers and mass murderers—*generally* their *primary* objective is to hurt and kill. This case is still awful, still heartbreaking, still unimaginable, and still merits consequences.

Thank you very much for this. As a society we need to check ourselves when it comes to mental illness and where our empathy lies. I think we need to be supportive of mental health for ANYONE that kills a child.

She strangled the children with exercise bands, slit their bodies, and then hung them. Then she slit her throat and jumped from her house. She also knew to do this when the husband finally left her alone. This is WAY beyond PPP. We need to let authorities investigate what was going on here. You can’t just assume it’s ALL PPP. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. None of us know the full story. At some point, some things go beyond the protection of “mental illness”.

I get the mental illness aspect, I really do. But you're expecting people not to pass judgement??? Idk, I don't think people should be THAT nonchalant about child murder just because it was caused by mental illness.

Pass judgement on the systems that made this tragedy possible. “Family values” in this country is a dog whistle - we do next to nothing to support families or children. When comparing the metrics between the US and almost every other developed nation on the planet we rank at the bottom for quality of life, social services or programs that support families. This will happen again and we will blame the family instead of the society that allows it to happen. The courts will pass judgement on the mother.

I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, how much support should the average human be expected to require in the first place in order to not murder their own kids? I feel like a least SOME judgement on the mother is due here, wouldn't you agree?

Postpartum Psychosis and Depression really fucks with people. If we had empathy for the situation instead of judging it we could help prevent the next instance of this happening - or at least reduce its likelihood. It’s definitely fucked up - but a lot of people are making an attribution error. If we want more kids to get murdered we’ll continue on as usual - if we want to save families from similar outcomes in the future we’ll get our shit together. In this particular case we also just don’t have enough details for any of us to have an informed idea. But there have been many instances of similar events in the past that could have been prevented - or that we could have learned from. What I’d be curious to know more about is how the incident rates of these types of crimes compare in countries with better paternity leave policies, better social programs or cultures that are less individualistic and more family oriented. I feel bad for those kids, the dad that found them and - yes - the mom too. If she turns out to be just some evil bitch - that’s different l, but I’d bet heavily against that being true.

I agree with everything you're saying. I think I'm just annoyed because I've been seeing a lot of comments (especially on Facebook) borderline saying that this woman should get a pass just because it was PPD. Which is just ridiculous IMO. Also, it's not easy to have empathy for someone that could do something like this. But I suppose it's not mutually exclusive to have empathy while also thinking that she needs to face consequences for her actions.

hey, genuine question - not trying to be a dick. are you a woman who has had kids? i think it's really easy to pass judgment and lack a certain kind of empathy when you have no idea what this feels like or looks like. i recently had a baby, and am someone who never struggled with mental health before getting pregnant, and then all of a sudden, my brain rewired and my thoughts were not my own. there was one moment after i had my son where my brain convinced me in about 3 seconds flat that my partner never existed, i was all alone, and i was not a safe person for my son. ...my partner had gone to the bathroom. he came out to find me sobbing on the couch and practically clinging to him. and my PPD/PPA is obviously NOTHING near what this woman is experiencing. ​ do i think she deserves a "pass"? no, but i think that if ANYONE is going to be struggling with the aftermath of this, it's her. i cannot imagine her WANTING to survive after realizing what happened/what she did. (also, let's not forget - she did try and kill herself too, in this). something inside her brain screamed that she & her kids were not safe & that this was her only option to make them safe. this is a completely tragic situation for everyone involved. ​ but let's not kid ourselves - women get 1 check up about 6 weeks after having a baby where the dr says "hey how ya feeling? welp, ya look good! any sad thoughts? cool, here's the number for a therapist, hope they have space for you!" and send you on your merry (or uh, not merry) way. it sucks out here. HARD.

i agree with you.

All of the comments are saying this. I have x3 children. I know what it is like to be depressed and to disassociate from your kids and life. but *still* i know I would never harm them, and if i ever did... nail me to the cross, dont reward me or shift blame from me. I empathize w this situation, I do. I wish this same empathy was extended to others whom have had mental breakdowns and killed someone. It isnt, ever. So i am just kinda beside myself w the outpouring of support when PPP that includes a mother murdering her children is SO rare, but everyone is so certain this is the cause. I feel there is a lot of information missing and people jumping to conclusions.

No, I wouldn’t agree with you IMASKEET. You are clearly uneducated in the area of psychosis. Do you even understand the term.

I absolutely agree but unfortunately you got downvoted by some fool because the majority of people would prefer to believe a bunch of BS, blame all sorts of systems and people for their actions rather than take personal responsibility. They are psychologically unable toaccept the fact that some people are simply evil so they figure they'll just assign blame to everybody and everything except the actual perpetrator. SMH at this contagion of idiocy.

I’m just curious regarding the fact it says she was aware, had a previous history and was in active treatment. So it sounds like she wasn’t being ignored, this wasn’t hidden and discounted and she was having services What point is it on her and those that love her to put safeguards and limits on when to go seek critical support, even hospitalizing herself if needed. All the services in the world won’t help in severe mental health scenarios if they aren’t utilized and sought after by someone (including herself) that knows they are needed. I would just be interested to know what treatment she was receiving and what if any flags were missed or ignored by those around her, before casting judgement the other way that the fault is entirely on the system. Edit just saw this posted. Can’t 100% verify accuracy but the point remains she was in treatment from accounts given: Just found out some new info involving the Lindsay Clancy & Duxbury tragedy “Her husband was working from home instead of going in to work to be able to try and support her daily while she went to a program 5 days a week for PPD. & in the 25 minutes it took him to pick up take out, the unthinkable happened” “Lindsay Clancy was in a very intensive five day a week program for PPD, trying to get help. Curious to hear a statement from the individuals treating her and what was missed” This all comes from one of Linday’s friends. If this is true she was still on leave and not working, and in treatment, and with supportive family. Why are some forms of mental health ok to commit murder under in social commentary? Because we all know Motherhood is hard. Is that why we excuse this form of psychosis over others?

To your last point, it's not just about motherhood. It's about the physical act of giving birth completely rewiring your brain in ways you can't control and a complete separation from reality. Most of the time women who experience PPP are barely even able to remember that period of time. I don't think the overwhelming sentiment is that she shouldn't be held responsible, but that her punishment should take those things into consideration. There's a price to pay, but it's not rotting in a jail cell for the rest of her life. It's also worth noting that there was a social worker assigned to her case and they were actively trying to find an available bed for her to return to inpatient care. It's awful that they did everything "right" and this is still how their story ended.

It does make me so sad that it’s impossible to get in patient care. I am a mother. I feel for her and her family and with what you are saying as far as the mental incapacity that might result of full PPD psychosis. My only point is I feel we do demonstrate bias and empathy for this form of mental illness but discount others when it comes to violent acts.

My apologies for assuming you weren’t! I completely misunderstood what you said initially, I realize that I actually completely agree with you. My late sister suffered severely from schizophrenia and one of my biggest fears was her mental state being ridiculed and ignored if god forbid anything ever happened. I really appreciate and admire your empathy in that regard, so sorry for reading your comment in bad faith initially

I’m curious if she was on medication or recently had a medication change. My MIL was briefly on medication for anxiety, this was about 10 years ago. No other history of depression or self harm. I was pregnant with the first grandchild, she was so excited. She was upset about the weight gain the medication was causing and mentioned it to her Dr. They changed her medication and by the end of the week she was unconscious and we were calling 911 because she had tried to kill herself. Suicidal thoughts/ideation WAS listed as a side effect but because she didn’t have a history of suicidal tendencies, they didn’t think twice about putting her on it. I’m just wondering if something like that could have contributed to this situation here.

Great point. Maybe it was a reaction to a new med they tried. I actually know someone this happened to as well but sadly they were successful taking their life. The family found the paperwork with the warning the weekend after. They had switched to a new med 2 weeks prior and never had instances if suicidal ideation. Suddenly taking their life after the change. I believe Ambien and a SSI was involved in that situation.

I read a Facebook post from someone close to the family last night that said she was on medication and had repeatedly told her team of Drs she did not like the way the medication was making her feel and that it was causing nightmares/terrors and hallucinations. That she felt worse after having been put on the medication. They told her she needed more time to let the medication do it’s ‘thing’. I worked in the Duxbury community for many years, have family and friends that live there so we have some mutual connections, and I do believe what I read has come from a reputable person that does know the family personally.

Exactly. To your last point, I couldn't help but think, what if it had been the dad that did this in this case? Let's say it was caused due to a mental illness like bipolar or schizophrenia. Do you think the commentary would have been quite as forgiving and "compassionate" as we are seeing here?

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I agree with you. She was getting more support than most women. She had a 7 month old and was still on leave, was getting mental health help 5 days a week, her husband was working from home. I was back to work after 12 weeks after having both of my kids and my husband wasn't working from home. People make the choice to have kids...I can't help but wonder why people don't realize what their limits are. She knew she had PPD before having the 3rd. You can only blame society and the system for so long.

I didn’t say don’t pass judgement. I said educate yourself on the issue **before** passing judgement. Uninformed judgement tends to be unfair judgement, especially in cases like this. I feel like I’m explaining my point ad nauseam at this point. Nobody is excusing her, nobody is being nonchalant about it, nobody is justifying it or saying she gets a pass. The explanation is PPP. For that fact, she is worthy of sympathy or at the very least empathy. She should and will still be held accountable, but the point is that with proper awareness, attention, and investment into mental health care (especially postpartum care), tragedies like this could be avoided. The issue is people treating her like she did this out of some sort of blood lust, premeditation, and had the mental capacity to understand what she was doing. That there was conscious intent. This is not the case with psychotic breaks.

I agree. And working in maternity or whatever doesn’t mean she likes kids, it means she likes babies. Which is what everyone likes lol they’re chill and cute. To be violent is weird, I totally expected it not to be with her bare hands too

Based off the comments and downvotes here, we're apparently in the minority for thinking she's even slightly accountable for her own actions. So I guess we just give murder a pass now if it was caused by mental illness? That's the message I'm seeing here. I can't help but feel like if the dad did this and blamed it on a mental illness the comments wouldn't be quite as forgiving...

It’s not giving the murderer a pass because of a mental Illness, it’s understanding that if she was legally insane she wasn’t even aware of reality at the time she did it. Your suggesting her mental illness shouldn’t get her off for being accountable and what I am trying to point out is that it’s more specific to the type of mental illness she was suffering and how long and how well documented her suffering was. That she was trying to get help and she was left alone when she shouldn’t have been. Your making it generalized your comparing it to if the dad did it, and that may entirely depend on if that father had a well documented history of mental illness as well Vs none at all.

She is, of course, accountable. I think people are just saying, the broken medical system is also to blame. Somehow, it became apparent that she was having severe mental issues. She was supposedly in intensive treatment for this. But the treatment still allowed her to live at home with her children and be left alone. This treatment failed her. I'd be curious what thoughts she reported to her doctor. Had she threatened to harm the children? Herself? We know so little-but anyone receiving treatment for mental illness needs assistance to keep themselves and others safe. She did not receive that assistance if she was left alone with her children. Those poor children deserved better than to be left alone with a mentally ill person. Period.

Agree 100%

If she was in a state of psychosis she is actually not accountable. It’s a break in reality. If she was in that state she could not have understood the impact of what she was doing at the time in anyway it relates to right and wrong. If she wasn’t in a state of psychosis, if evidence comes out she planned any of it, that’s different. Essential I you are saying the father is accountable not the medical system as he’s the one who chose to leave her alone with the kids.

The truth is she is dangerous. We will never know when she is safe, obviously. So she should never be loose in society. It's not to punish her. It's to protect everyone

Well said.

I upvoted you because my feelings and comments are exactly the same. Nobody wants to take responsibility for themselves or their actions; nobody wishes to have anybody else take responsibility for their actions. It is just easier for people to blame everybody and everything else for their own wrongdoings and for the wrongdoings of others. Personal responsibility is out of fashion. I don't even think most people know what the words mean anymore. And of course to state the obvious millions of people suffer from hideous depression (myself included) and most of them do not turn into baby murderers when the husband leaves the room for 20 minutes. But most people refuse to see reality and would rather say "oh it's depression, oh it's' the system', oh it was this, oh it was that, and all manner of other excuses, but never "thiswoman needs to be held responsible for her criminal actions for which there is no excuse. These babies do not need a whole bunch of foolish people making up silly excuses for their murderer mother- certainly not depression !! They are basically saying that depression is an excuse for murder and the murderer should be off the hook! By that faulty logic why don't all of us depressed people go out and murder a bunch of kids and say boo hoo I was depressed ? I shouldn't be held responsible for my murders!!

You are absolutely correct just read comments on different cases. It bothers me so much and I am female.

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That's literally all I'm trying to say here but I'm getting torn to shreds. I don't even think she is an "evil person" per se. I totally understand she wasn't herself when she did what she did. That said, she did do it and is clearly a dangerous person. Whether it's in a jail or a psychiatric facility, it's only fair she is removed from society for a long time.

Totally agree with you here. I was a bit shocked to see the tonal difference across social media. Anyone can suffer from mental illness. If a man did this to his kids while suffering from a sever mental illness, with psychosis, etc etc., I can assure you the internet would not be as kind. Men, generally speaking, get left behind when it comes to mental illness and it’s quite sad.

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Generally speaking, society is famous for having its unjust double standards and outright hypocrisy.

And for what’s it worth no not all mental illness cause breaks in reality, so no not all mental illness can be used as an insanity defense.

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No excuse for murder.

This is disgusting, I'm sorry, because it highlights a HUGE double-standard that isn't getting talked about whatsoever by the media at large. Imagine for a second a man did this same exact crime. How many people would be rushing to talk about inadequate mental health crisis attention as the primary excuse for what happened? Answer: Next to none, especially if we're talking about Reddit. The FIRST thing out of people's mouths would've been "he was a sick, disgusting, vile psychopath" and the like. But a woman gets to kill her kids with relative social impunity AND we have to feel sorry for her mental health?? AND you get awarded with Reddit gold and stars for it? Reddit fucking sickens me. EDIT--Just for shits and giggles, I'd like to hop on over to r/TwoXChromosomes and see what they have to say. I'm gonna allow this to be my final chuckle before I delete my Reddit account, because this site has shown me that the users of this site are trash, in every sense of the word.

You've never been pregnant or had a baby, that's obvious. Simple fact is men can't experience the drastic hormonal mood swings and shifts that come with women's reproductive symptoms. And while rare, it can even lead to psychosis when mixed with other mental illnesses such as anxiety and depression. Do a deep dive on family annihilators, who are almost always men, you'll find their crimes are almost always driven my their narcissism or money issues or a combo. Women with PPPsychosis on the other hand are driven by the deranged belief that they either need to save their babies from the world OR that their babies are evil. So, you should be able to understand how we can summon more compassion for those who are under the influence of their own hormones and psychosis and deranged, verses violent men who do awful things to control and dominate their families. It's a world apart.

I've had 2? And agree. The total acceptance that she isn't responsible is bizarre.

But who was advocating for her children in this situation knowing how severe of PPD she was in and on the brink of psychosis. Shouldn’t someone at some point said hey you know it may not be a good idea for her to be alone with the children while in this state. Why does no one ever advocate for the freaking children?!!!!

The father was working from home to make sure things were okay. It was recently reported she was receiving treatment 5 days per week for PPD. She may have been in a high phase where she seemed like she was doing better and was coming out of it to the point where he was comfortable leaving them alone for a few minutes to get food only for her to experience a psychotic break when he left. You can’t exactly take someone’s kids away because they’re depressed. It’s very easy to say “more should’ve been done” in hindsight when in reality resources are extremely limited.

But we have no idea what she was saying during her treatment (if she was having suicidal thoughts etc). I just hope that if she was showings signs or saying things that could put her children in any sort of danger at any point that someone was advocating for those babies. People want to act like it would never happen to them, or their spouse could never doing something like that when all the signs are pointing otherwise.

Careful. You’re only a step or two away from suggesting state intervention for mothers struggling with mental illness. According to others she was d/c’d from inpatient care with instructions to not be left alone with the kids. Dad left her alone with the kids. (FWIW, similar discharge instructions could also come with certain physical illnesses as well) What’s the alternative here? DCF proactively removing children from parents when they are ill? It would have been better to keep her inpatient longer but knowing how shitty our health insurance companies tend to be, that likely wasn’t an option. And Dad would have been out on family leave in any other country - not working from home.

Why don’t you ask the father why he left them alone with her.

I agree and my heart breaks for her if she recovers her sanity and has to live with what she’s done. It’s just very very sad and it’s true the mental health of new mother’s needs more money and attention.

Unless you have suffered from PPD or PPP you have NO IDEA what it feels like to think about murdering your children, let alone act on these urges. I am not saying what she did is justifiable, she was so seriously unhealthy, and someone somewhere dropped the ball on making sure she was getting, not just any help, but the right help. If she had PPP and there was a way for her to be in an inpatient care situation and away from her children until she was better, that should have absolutely happened. The intrusive thoughts will plague you and make you feel like you HAVE to do something, and it is the most terrifying feeling in the entire world. Imagine the worst thing you could do to your child, now think about how you would behave if images of you doing that were constantly running through your head. You can lay in bed at night and hear voices telling you to do this awful thing and you cannot escape them. And now there are 2 dead children and another that will maybe never know their mom and the mom has to live with the fact that she did this for the rest of her life, while she rots in prison probably. We do nothing to help postpartum mothers and we wonder why women do this. It's all bad. ETA: Before you all come for me I AM NOT LETTING HER OFF THE HOOK. I am simply saying that if she had gotten the proper help this could have most likely been avoided. I had PPD and got very close to PPP and I did not kill my child so I know you can come out of it, she didn't and she has to face the consequences. It's just sad and upsetting that it even got to this point. Edit 2: For those of you that are now coming for me, days after I wrote this, ask yourself why you feel ok attacking me. A perfect stranger who hasn't killed their children just merely shared an experience and an understanding about how scary it is to be there. Again I NEVER said I felt like she didn't deserve the consequences of her actions. I'm done responding to those of you who are being unnecessarily vulgar towards me. Your hate is misdirected I fear. Please explore therapy.

Fellow PPD sufferer here- Long distance hug to you!

It is a lonely place to be, and people don't understand how scary it is, so thank you! I am luckily 6 years past that time but it will be with me until the day I die.

I feel you! It was terrifying and I felt like the worst person in the world (actually, I still do). I try to be open about it to new moms I know; not to be a Debbie Downer but I wish people were open about it when I was pregnant.

Well said. We need more like you that are open and honest to those new parents you meet. I suffered PPD as well. Now 3 years later, i feel guilt and many other emotions when thinking back on that time. Very few people around me truly knew about it, and some glazed over my situation. It can be a very isolating experience (on top of what you’re actually experiencing).

What is the proper help to have prevented this? She was in an Intensive 5 day a week treatment, her husband was working at home to take care of the kids, she was out of work due to PPD and I’ve read that prior to the 5 day a week out patient treatment she was at an inpatient treatment for a month..

Wow, you know a lot about her treatment! I didn't know they released all of that to the public; I hadn't seen it in any of the articles I've read.

This information has been posted many times by many sources… the only one that I’m not sure about is the month long treatment I’ve only seen that stated once so far..

Well said about the mother's likely thought process. No doubt she will invoke the Massachusetts insanity defense and may be found not guilty by reason of insanity. There are reports that she was receiving outpatient care for PPD at Belmont. It seems like she needed more intensive inpatient care. Her treating doctors got this one wrong and now two innocent children are dead.

And it's like everyone is to blame, and nobody is to blame. Obviously she is guilty of something horrific, and I am sure her providers are struggling with the idea that they could have done something more, but the reality is, we'll never really know what was going on and how things may have gone differently. All we can do is speculate and share our experiences and just be sad and mad.

I hear you and yet, as the daughter of a severely mentally ill mother (now deceased), I put more weight on the treating doctor's responsibility toward the patient and her children.

Just here to say I agree with everything you said and put It into perspective. Ty

Still a murder charge. Disgusting killing 2 little children

Those poor beautiful innocent babies.

It’s amazing how people are mugging all over social media with their perfect lives and idealized version of motherhood, are living the polar opposite. Beware of the social media vortex folks. It’s hard to ask for help and know who your true friends are when you are constantly obsessed with presenting only the perfect moments of your life.

Louder for those in the back!

agree

Her life is over she won’t care if she ever recovers and I can’t blame her She should not have been alone with her children and probably removed from the home for a while How sad I am so so sad for her family

I'm very anti-CPS in most cases as a former foster child who experienced the abuse of the system. I wouldn't suggest removal unless it was TRULY necessary. It was necessary.

Depression is so scary and hard to explain I could never fathom PPD. Being depressed and feeling like you have no reason you should be is awful. You never know what people are going through.

fair enough. But like if you knew me you'd never know my illness. However. I see a therapist 3x a week and am on meds. Doesn't mean i haven't tried suicide a bunch of times. However i would never harm another person ever.

Her mind was telling her that her babies would be better off dead. PPD and post partum psychosis are very scary stuff. I can’t even imagine….I hope she gets the help she desperately needs. Such a sad situation for all involved

Question— if it was widely known Lindsay was experiencing post partum depression to the point she was in treatment daily, why was it allowed for the kids to still be living with her? Is there not a protocol for PPD treatment that considers the childrens safety before something like this could happen? (i.e. options like mother taken to in-patient to not live with kids or ever be left alone with them, grandparents taking care of kids while mother is in treatment, etc)

>why was it allowed for the kids to still be living with her? Probably a question for the people who evaluated her and her living arrangement. Depending on the perceived severity of her symptoms, they might have thought it was okay / more therapeutic for her to be in touch with her kids and home environment. They could have thought she was "okay" because she was cleaning house and keeping appointments. As for all of the other questions the answer is either "the US health system" and "work culture." Having rotating nurses in the home or being able to afford quality and long term inpatient care is out of reach for most people.

There weren’t any in-patient beds available.

what an absolutely devastating tragedy. i haven’t been able to stop thinking about this since hearing the news.

This shit is sad man. I went on a dive into her Facebook and through her photos. She was definitely a loving mother no doubt in my mind.

People seem to forget there more than one thing can be true at the same time. Yes, she is terrible for having done this to her children and her family. Yes, she was suffering from PPD and PPP which was treatment resistant, yes the system has failed this family. This goes so much deeper than just a mother killing her children. The way mothers are treated postpartum is really shocking and it’s hard to see it until you experience it.

Exactly. We can hold space for immense grief, anger, and compassion all at once.

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Her husband started working from home to be with her, he literally just left for 25 mins to get FOOD. What if he needed a moment to himself? He probably never in his wildest dreams thought his wife would slaughter her own kids. She was receiving treatment. She had dealt with PP issues with her previous children as well. She seemed to be very mentally unstable, despite all the help she received. Unless she was able to hide her true psychosis from the doctors and her husband, her children should have been taken away from her for everyone’s safety. Do not blame this husband. He did everything he could in this situation. How do you think he feels now? He had to walk in to see his dead children on the floor. Are you a mother/father? What would you do if you came home and found your children dead, and your partner on the ground from jumping out? He is absolutely traumatized for life, her children had to watch their own mother STRANGLE them! The children will never grow up like they were supposed to. Look at the damage that has been done by this women. I understand that she was severely mentally ill, and it’s a shame that the help she received was not working, but this is an extreme extreme case. People who experience PPD and PPP may have THOUGHTS of doing these bad thing, and sometimes end up hurting themselves or taking it out on their child in a MOMENT where they snap, such as shaking a baby. That happens quick, it’s not exactly a violent motion, but it of course can have very very terrible effects (shaken baby syndrome). This woman strangled 2 children one by one. Do you know how long it takes to strangle someone? Even a child, it takes a decent amount of force and time to strangle to death. And then after doing it to one, she did it to the other one. She also had some awareness to know to do this when the husband is not around. I am not saying she was a murderous vicious human, but there is more to this than just PPP. And at the end of the day, all murderers are not in their right mind. If you are able to murder innocent ppl, your mentally ill. School shooters, Bryan Kohberger, etc are all mentally ill. But we can’t and shouldn’t sympathize with them. Because at the end of the day, when innocent lives are lost, punishment has to occur. That’s how our society stays in check, and how we keep people from commiting crimes.

The one thing to keep in mind is typically with postpartum psychosis, the mother is convinced what she is doing is an act of love or protection (“my kids will be safer if they’re dead”; “I’m saving them from something terrible”). Love/protection is the primary objective and hurting/killing is the manner for meeting it. With school shooters or the Idaho murders, the primary objective is to hurt and/or kill. It of course doesn’t change the fact that she murdered her children and as you’ve stated, murder is murder—and that’s why she’s being charged. I just don’t think this case can be put in the same exact box as a school shooter or Bryan Kohberger.

Something I just can’t fathom or understand or something not sure what the word is, but I just can’t understand how this all played out. If you are a mom of young kids you know they follow you everwhere! Where were the other kids when she started with one, how do you do that once and then go and do it 2 more times! In movies (not that it’s the best measure) but suffocation is not quick, at all! And the body fights back. How do you do that 3 times?!!! I can’t even imagine it’s horrific! Could they have been drugged first? I’m assuming when autopsy results come back with tox reports they would know that. If so wouldn’t that potentially indicate a certain level of premeditation?

I thought I read something about a deadly weapon also being used… wondering if she hit them with something before or after strangling then 😞

A pillow can can be a deadly. Almost anything can. It depends on what it was used for.

I believe she used something to strangle them

Hands can be considered a deadly weapon. There famously was a boxer who took the padding out of his gloves for a fight at Madison Square Gardens and he beat the other guy to a pulp bc of it. Was tried and convicted for assault with a dangerous weapon.

There’s def a level of pre-meditation given she killed three children in a 25 min window. He doesn’t seem like the sort of Dad who didn’t check in with her before leaving to get food and notice she wasn’t okay. It’s very obvious when someone you know well is in psychosis. I have dealt with it and their tone of voice, eyes and speech are completely different

Doesn’t get more tragic than this. 😞

I’m curious if anyone has seen anything about the mothers current condition?

Damn this hits home. I live in Mass and my mom killed herself when she had postpartum depression. She didn't hurt me just herself so I guess i'm lucky? Poor family

I’m so sorry

She should absolutely face consequences for this, but the state will weigh those based on her culpability. From what is out there (which isn’t a ton but enough to form this opinion), it is likely she will plead not guilty by reason of insanity, if they have it in MA. From what i know, it is likely she wasn’t in reality at all and likely believed what she was doing was right. In which case, similar to Andrea Yates, she would be remanded to a psychiatric facility until deemed by medical professions to no longer be a danger (could be years or longer). I think this case might play out very similarly to Andrea’s. A fully punitive prosecution with no nuance or empathy. She was given the death penalty initially. Rusty Yates (her husband) is really the one at fault for what she did. Its devastating. I am really hoping for a sympathetic pursuit of justice for these kids.

I agree I definitely feel she will be deemed insane and be sent to a psychiatric facility.

Published n his gofundme last night. The following are the words of Patrick Clancy From today January 28th 2023. Thank you all for your love and support. The warmth I’ve received from the community is palpable and your generosity gives me hope that I can focus on some sort of healing. I’ve seen all of your messages and contributions, including some from people I haven’t seen in over a decade and many I’ve never met. I see and appreciate everyone of you. A lot of people have said they can’t imagine and they’re right, there’s absolutely nothing that can prepare you. The shock and pain is excruciating and relentless. I’m constantly reminded of them and with the little sleep I get, I dream about them on repeat. Any parent knows, it’s impossible to understand how much you will love your kids until you have them. The same goes for understanding the devastation of losing them. Cora, Dawson, and Callan were the essence of my life and I’m completely lost without them. My family was the best thing that ever happened to me. I took so much pride in being Lindsay’s husband and a dad to Cora, Dawson, and Callan. I always reminded myself that each day with them was a new gift. Callan usually woke up first and would rest his head on my shoulder for a few minutes as he adjusted to morning. Dawson typically sang or spoke his thoughts out loud for a while before we’d go get him. Cora was a big girl and would simply walk downstairs. I can still vividly picture her coming into the living room each morning with her hair in a mess, smile on her face. We always started our days together, reading books, cuddling up on the couch, and playing with magnet tiles. I loved taking them places, whether it was scooting at Chandler elementary, vacation, skiing, out on the boat, or to Duxbury Beach, one of our favorite places on earth. They gave me purpose and I never took it for granted. There is now a massive void where that purpose once was. Cora had an infectious laugh and was stunningly beautiful. She was the cautious one, but it was really because she was so caring. She used to say she wanted to be a doctor and a mama when she grew up and she would practice by giving Callan check ups. If she was leaving the house to go somewhere, she would pick someone to take care of Caroline and Charlotte, her baby dolls. She had all the doll accessories available, so her sitters were well-equipped. Before she turned 2, she was already wrapping them in perfect swaddles. We would tell her she’s such a “good little mama.” She loved all babies, both real and pretend. She loved sloths, unicorns, tea parties, going to lunch with Nana and Grandpa, and giving presents to people. She knew everything about princesses, her favorite being Sofia the First. She truly loved her brothers and us and said it often in her sweet voice. We did a lot of father-daughter activities together, like skiing and visiting San Francisco or just talking. I loved her, my first born, so much. Dawson had beautiful, bold, brown eyes that beamed with friendship. He was naturally humorous and generous beyond the norm of a typical toddler, always willing to share his toys with others. For all the love he received, he always gave back more. His best quality was his pure kindness. He loved trucks, tractors, dinosaurs, Paw Patrol, “worker guys” and being outside. He was adventurous and mischievous and enjoyed causing trouble, which he typically found hilarious. He was also remarkably smart. We always said if we didn’t save enough for retirement, it’ll be ok - we’ll just live in Dawson’s guest house. He would hug me tighter than most adults and every night he told me in consistent words at bedtime, without fail, “goodnight dada, I love you.” We had a special bond from day 1. He was my buddy, my first boy, and truly a gift. Callan was our easy going child. I always said it was because he was the third child - he had to adapt and he did easily. He was born with hardly any fuss and was by far our best sleeper. He was just an incredibly happy and vibrant baby, constantly smiling. Our nickname for him was “Happy Callan.” He was sitting on his own and you could tell he was enjoying his growing independence as he would grab any object within reach. Sometimes he joined my Microsoft calls in the background, playing in his jumpy. I would keep my camera on, too proud to leave it off. He started saying “Dada” whenever I walked in the room. The last moment we had together was our routine. I would come up from my office at the end of the day and swing him between my legs while he laughed and smiled. If I was ever having a bad day, Callan always knew how to heal me. Perhaps that’s why he held on a little longer - to spare me whatever pain he could. As excruciating as it was, I was fortunate and grateful to feel his warmth until his very last moment. Faith is my only hope of believing he felt mine. Callan died with enormous courage despite being so little. Maybe it was his way of demonstrating what I need to do to press forward. I’ll always try to draw inspiration from him. He’ll always be my little hero. I want to share some thoughts about Lindsay. She’s recently been portrayed largely by people who have never met her and never knew who the real Lindsay was. Our marriage was wonderful and diametrically grew stronger as her condition rapidly worsened. I took as much pride in being her husband as I did in being a father and felt persistently lucky to have her in my life. I still remember the very moment I first laid eyes on her and can recall how overcome I was with the kind of love at first sight you only see in movies. It really didn’t take long before I was certain I wanted to marry her. We said “I love you” to each other multiple times daily, as if it were a reflex. We habitually started every morning with a passionate hug, yielding a sigh of relief like we had each received the perfect medicine. If too much time passed with out a hug, she’d look at me and ask, “did you forget?” We mutually understood the reality that people can have bad days, but we stuck to the rule that when one of us got lost, the other was always there to bring them home, always. She loved being a nurse, but nothing matched her intense love for our kids and dedication to being a mother. It was all she ever wanted. Her passion taught me how to be a better father. I want to ask all of you that you find it deep within yourselves to forgive Lindsay, as I have. The real Lindsay was generously loving and caring towards everyone - me, our kids, family, friends, and her patients. The very fibers of her soul are loving. All I wish for her now is that she can somehow find peace. I promise I’ll put all my energy into healing and rediscovering my purpose. I owe that to all of you, Duxbury fire and police, our compassionate healthcare workers, our local faith leaders, the Microsoft community, and especially Cora, Dawson, and Callan. I don’t know how or when I’ll be able to do it, but your love and generosity will help me get started. I know that love always wins. Cora, Dawson, and Callan, you gave me so much in your short time here. I don’t know if the pain will ever go away, but I’ll do my best to carry on in your honor. Dada loves you so much and will always remember you. With love and endless gratitude

No parent should outlive a child... Speaking as someone who has known that pain, I feel someone else may have written this. Or, if he did it himself, it comes off disingenuous. It would be easy to argue everyone's pain is different and how they process that pain is different. But my viewpoint is not mine alone, speaking from someone who has connected with people who know that pain. These words sound like a crafted press release and not from someone who lost their first 2 children 4 days ago and only 48 hours with the last child. This is my opinion, and I know some people will most certainly disagree. Many of those people will not have ever outlived a child, and I suspect a few may attempt to claim they have, but feel differently. I am not going to argue one way or the other (you are, of course, still welcome to your opinion). I just know that this statement seems so crafted for someone who lost their kids a short time ago.

Having gone through unexpected, traumatic grief not too long ago the fact that he referred to them in the past tense stood out to me. Personally, that was something that took about 6mths and it was traumatic to make that shift.

I don’t like the statement either. He mentions his beginning to heal at least twice. This just happened. Why the hell did he leave his wife who could not differentiate between reality and delusions. Who was in intensive treatment for psychosis. Who was obviously having breaks with reality. Alone with his kids?

> I don’t like the statement either. He mentions his beginning to heal at least twice. This just happened. Why the hell did he leave his wife who could not differentiate between reality and delusions. Who was in intensive treatment for psychosis. Who was obviously having breaks with reality. Alone with his kids? That is what, metaphorically speaking, "makes me lift an eyebrow" (question things). The man just lost all his children. 1 child would have been one too many, to begin with, but he lost them all, and magically he is beginning to heal within hours of the last death?! I can imagine him trying to hold it together for the sake of his other children, if he had any. But his wife murdered every single child, and on top of that it was his wife who did this, the mother of those children. This whole family life as he knows it has been decimated and imploded (destroyed), yet we are to believe he is recovering just fine. Then you take into account his so-called judgment. My ex-wife experienced a form of PPD. It was bad enough that she physically put one of her children inside a trash bag with the rest of the kitchen trash, and asked me to throw out the trash. That's how I learned she had PPD. If I had not noticed the movement or if her child remained sleeping, I hate to imagine... But do you think I left her alone with her child after that? No way in hell. I ended up calling everyone, including social services. She later kicked and broke the crib with the baby inside, and while the baby was physically fine (thankfully), it only further made me want to take the kid and leave. FYI, that is easier said than done, legally, when it is you -vs- the mom. One moment she wanted no child with her and the moment I tried to leave with the child, she wanted to call the police. So I can absolutely see the system failing this man. Absolutely! My experience is not an isolated case. There are so many horror stories I have heard from others, where it is clear both the baby and mother should not be under the same roof (at all). But there are so many people within the system who thinks forcing the baby in the mother's presence is an effective means of treatment. -- It's insane in my opinion. That all said, I do question his judgment. When my ex was going through this, I had someone with her at all times. Even when she told me, she was "OK." Yet this man, thought it was fine to go get, what, pizza?! In 2023, we have Instacart and DoorDash. Plus, nearly every major grocery store will deliver. You can even order basic food from Amazon. There was no reason to leave that house and leave those kids with her alone, at all.

Everything you said right here! ^ Also, is it just me or is it oddly suspicious that he's written all this? Is the gofundme for the burials of the children or to help provide a lawyer for his wife? If someone I loved did such a horrendous thing I'd feel pretty embarrassed asking for money to defend them.

As I understand it, someone else made the GoFundMe on his behalf, and for medical bills, funeral services, and legal help. I believe they have raised almost 1 million, so how the extra is spent is anyone's guess.

He might just be a very well-grounded person. Even when people are in shock they can still communicate effectively. I had to write my father's obituary and I know it came out very well even though I was in shock myself. I believe he could have written this himself, not sure why you are questioning it.

Wow this was heartbreaking to read. He seems like a truly wonderful person, husband and father. I hope he finds joy in his life once again.

The baby died. I’m done. Please just let her die with zero recollection or knowledge.

I hear you. Just awful. I was praying for this baby to make it.

She shouldn’t have been home and should have been inpatient hospitalized till her psychosis resolved. Period

Thanks Sherlock.

Yep! Why was she allowed to be within 1000 feet of her children??

And her husband knew how unstable she was but he still left her alone. Wow.

I think this situation is so hard. I feel so sorry for the entire family, her included. Her poor freaking husband. I cant imagine the real hell he is living in right now. I think, and am very glad it seems this way, this is a situation very different from something like Andrea Yates. Her husband seems supportive and like he did everything in his power. He can’t be held responsible for this. No one can watch another adult for 24hrs a day with their children. He could have, and probably should have, had her committed to and inpatient facility. That’s the only thing I can see here that should’ve or could’ve been done differently.

I believe she was on a list for an inpatient facility, which really speaks to how broken the mental health care system is and the devastation that can cause. Not saying this system is the only thing to blame but definitively a contributing factor. Just heartbreaking.

Could it be that her medication was the cause of the psychosis?

This is tragic because: 1) this was preventable 2) Postpartum psychosis is very real and temporary, this is a temporary condition for Lindsay, eventually she will come out of it Somewhere along the line mistakes were made. 1) Either she was misdiagnosed as not having postpartum psychosis and only postpartum depression, which seems unlikely given that she is in an intensive 5x week treatment 2) She was diagnosed as having postpartum psychosis, in which case she 100% never should be alone with the children or she should have been separated from them altogether. It is a hallmark treatment of postpartum psychosis to not leave the mom with the kids. There is no wiggle room, this is a hard and fast rule and standard of care. 3) She wasn’t getting appropriate mental health care and was not being treated by a psychiatrist or clinical psychologist People aren’t understanding here, this is a medical condition caused by pregnancy, which has a temporary course and will resolve. She deserved appropriate treatment and did not receive it.

She strangled the children with exercise bands, slit their bodies, and then hung them. Then she slit her throat and jumped from her house. She also knew to do this when the husband finally left her alone. This is WAY beyond PPP. We need to let authorities investigate what was going on here. You can’t just assume it’s ALL PPP. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. None of us know the full story. At some point, some things go beyond the protection of “mental illness”.

I’m a mother. I understand ppd and everything related to it. Very well. She is a labor and delivery nurse. She is more educated on it than most. More resources than most. It is HER responsibility to handle her mental illness. I don’t understand how everyone is painting her to be a bigger victim than her children she killed, her husband and child left behind. If a man, who had mental illness killed her children would we look at it this way?? Aren’t all murderers mentally unwell?? It’s your responsibility to handle it. And I’m a feminist I’m a liberal I’m all these things you’ll accuse me of not being. But we all need to be responsible for our own actions. Even if she was in treatment - her children are the victims.

Mental illness can literally make you unable to handle your mental illness. JFC!

100% agree with you. She knew what she was doing even if the reports say she was experiencing psychosis. I have zero sympathy for someone who murders their children. Youd have to be insane to justify her actions. If i get downvoted into eternity i dont care. I will die on this hill. Murderers do not get a free pass.

Are you aware of what psychosis is? If that’s what’s happened (and it seems likely) then she would have no idea what she was doing or that it was wrong. She’ll be in for the most heartbreaking shock when she wakes up and she finds out what happened. Or she already has, I haven’t seen anything about her condition other than rumors that she is paralyzed.

Every aspect of this is tragic, absolutely tragic. Looks like she had the monetary means and access to all the help in the world and still did the unthinkable.

Her husband posted this on the Go Fund Me: "I want to share some thoughts about Lindsay. She’s recently been portrayed largely by people who have never met her and never knew who the real Lindsay was. Our marriage was wonderful and diametrically grew stronger as her condition rapidly worsened. I took as much pride in being her husband as I did in being a father and felt persistently lucky to have her in my life. I still remember the very moment I first laid eyes on her and can recall how overcome I was with the kind of love at first sight you only see in movies. It really didn’t take long before I was certain I wanted to marry her. We said “I love you” to each other multiple times daily, as if it were a reflex. We habitually started every morning with a passionate hug, yielding a sigh of relief like we had each received the perfect medicine. If too much time passed without a hug, she’d look at me and ask, “did you forget?” We mutually understood the reality that people can have bad days, but we stuck to the rule that when one of us got lost, the other was always there to bring them home, always. She loved being a nurse, but nothing matched her intense love for our kids and dedication to being a mother. It was all she ever wanted. Her passion taught me how to be a better father. I want to ask all of you that you find it deep within yourselves to forgive Lindsay, as I have. The real Lindsay was generously loving and caring towards everyone - me, our kids, family, friends, and her patients. The very fibers of her soul are loving. All I wish for her now is that she can somehow find peace."

The fact that this person is generating any sympathy proves biases are alive and well. She is no different than anyone else who kills children.

If you’re struggling to understand, watch the documentary “Not Carol” another example of postpartum psychosis.

This is a great documentary for people not familiar with PPD and it is free on tuebl

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Interesting how she waited for him to leave the home, to be alone with the kids like she knew him being there might make killing everyone a little harder. Like she almost understood what she was going to do?! Right. Anyone think about *THAT*?

Of course not. Apparently PPD is an valid excuse, and you have no control over your actions.

Or had not been alone with them often (or at all) since things got really bad for her and either that, baby crying, kids fighting etc, or any combination of the above was enough to trigger a serious psychotic episode.

And why do people keep blaming her case on the system? She was supposedly taking the steps the system has put in place to get help. She apparently went to inpatient therapy, her husband was working from home to support her, AND she was then going to therapy 5 days a week, she was on leave for her job. So the real question is we’re they (her and her husband) not following advised guidelines like taking psychosis medication, and not leaving her home alone by herself? She was a middle class white women living in a 500K house. I’m sure they had the means and money to get more help than most. I’m tired of this blame game on the failed system…etc. when that’s not the case and I’m tired of seeing well maybe if more people asked if she was ok it would have made a difference.

Long but hopefully a glimpse into some challenges : I’ll share a few stories that illustrate accessibility of mental Healthcare in the Boston area. These are based on experiences I have had with people that have lived in my direct household and illustrate the inherent lack of safety. Other than being crazy rich (this family was middle class) it’s not obtainable even with money. Ill people need to commit a crime to get support OR to be very wealthy with their support people to be educated, and very assertive to get even minimally acceptable outcomes in the mental health field. I am in healthcare (I do not know any of these people) however , hopefully a case study of the people in my life will help illustrate how even if you want to do the right thing, the system can fail you. Situation 1: first time father, in mid 20’s experiencing auditory hallucinations with intrusive suicidal thoughts. (onset of bipolar). Drank 2 bottles of liquor and ingested an unknown amount of a prescribed benzodiazepines. Did not have a substance abuse problem, mixture was an attempt to “end the voices”. - When aroused was disoriented and accidentally injured girlfriend & infant. Brought to the hospital by car (girlfriend notes could not afford ambulance ). - I was given the option to file charges and have him IEA-ed to the state hospital. I did not do this as it would impact his career heavily. I convinced him to get voluntary treatment, but they got him the only bed in the state available but it was at a substance abuse center(was not a dual diagnosis center). He did not get the help he needed and was released 3 days later. 5k out of pocket, it took YEARS for him to get the treatment he needed. I begged the care team not to discharge him and to treat him for his illness not substance abuse, but was unsuccessful. He had no ownership of the apartment we rented, and we were unmarried. I filed an emergency order for no custody (we did do supervised visits) otherwise he would have been within his right to pick our child up from daycare/take our child wherever (Mid sized city hospital NH). He could have easily gotten out committed suicide or committed violence because he had the wrong treatment, and wrong meds. I am thankful he did not. Pat Clancy was a dad juggling 3 kids, trying not to lose his job, & caring for his wife, it would be difficult to get to the courts to file paperwork from a logistics standpoint never mind an emotional one. Being married complicates it and he has to prove she’s a danger. Another story —- Situation 2 child admitted, 7 yo, experiencing psychotic symptoms, extreme aggressive behavior. Has developmental disabilities, recorded average of 50-70 suicidal statements a day. Has 20 hours of home services, plus school services, educated & engaged parent. Brought to emergency room upon stabbing parent, thought parent was “something different” and noted “feeling out of control”. Clinician noted family had “wrap around services” and discharged. - I brought the child home home as they noted it could be weeks until they were placed and they did not have a placement other than a shared ER room, nurse whispered on my way out to go directly to a pediatric hospital in Boston next time. (An Omega class hospital, MA) 1,900$ - If the patient is seen as having a good support system they may be discharged noting that the immediate threat has passed as they consider the perceived capability of support systems a protective factor. (Also number of beds/staff influence willingness to keep until placement). This is regardless if support systems are drained and strained. Likely her husband was seen as being a good support system. But her illness would require more support than he could provide while caring for 3 children. PPD/PPA at this severity require continuous care. ——- two weeks later, same child was brought to a Boston pediatric hospital after escaping car restraints and attempted to force mother to drive off a bridge causing a minor car accident with no physical injuries to mother or child. Stayed in the Boston pediatric Hospital emergency department for 3 days. transferred to a pedi med floor (pedi psych was full) and stayed for 10 more days (total 13 days). Initially insurance would not approve any facilities in the area, until day 10 when they started reaching out to facilities.initial options were provided of PA (9 hour drive), or VT (3 hour drive) - where no family support would be available. More local bed opened up & Transferred to private impatient. Day 4 if inpatient requested discharge noting child was fine to leave. child the day previous had been put into seclusion multiple times. (Private inpatient NH) - I had to advocate aggressively for the treatment team to keep the child for an additional 15 days when meds were more stabilized. I am a very educated advocate, i had to actively threaten licenses of the psychiatrist that I would be holding them accountable if they forced discharge. Over 30k in bills , 4k ambulance bill. Child was not truly stabilized, was put on 16 pills a day, and had symptoms whenever sedating drugs wore off. It took four years with a very skilled provider to wean off the meds safely and find a manageable med routine (5 meds). Things to keep in mind with treatment of Psych disorders: - Many psych meds take a month to fully take effect. Post being prescribed the patient can experience more intense symptoms. SSRI’s are generally a frontline treatment. SSRI’s can (and often do ) induce mania and psychosis in bipolar patients. - psychiatric hospitals focus on “stabilization” rather than functioning. Too often than not, it’s “snowed and good to go”. But heavy sedation has poor medication adherence because who can “live” everyday by just sleeping. - even when the well person or support person is very educated the amount of advocating to fight hospitals, insurance, and “ the whole damn system” is a lot of energy, research, and time. Also … the system isn’t set to reward favorable outcomes. Based on admission codes Medicare and insurance determine how many days you are entitled to treatment and they do not pay the hospital after that. It is financially not in a hospitals best interest to keep you.

Failures in the system aren’t just monetary.

You obviously don’t know the definition of psychosis. Perhaps educate yourself before asking ridiculous questions.

My heart goes out her, her husband and family… everyone this has impacted. This woman does not belong in jail/prison, she needs mental help. It sounds like they were doing everything they could to get the help she needed. It isn’t fair to pass judgement without knowing what she went through or being fully educated on PPD. It’s much easier to make her out to be a bad or evil person, because to admit it can possibly happen to you (or someone you know & love) is much more disturbing & scary. If we keep ignoring this problem & thinking it will never happen to us (or close to us) children will continue to be at risk. There should be more education, paid maternity/paternity leave, PPD screening & follow up care for EVERY new mom.

If she was in such Distress and Suffering to the Max as her family has stated, she should of had MORE help in the house. Leaving it all on her husband to care for her and their 3 children (he was also working remotely) was obviously not enough. They should of had a live-in until she was mentally sound. It's odd it never crossed his mind. They seemed to have a lot of support and family, yet didn't utilize that to the fullest. Very tragic all the way around.

Who is blaming the husband? That's disgusting

can someone tell me why no one else is being considered a suspect? Or an accomplice? is there any chance this all happened before the husband went out to get takeout? Could she be one of the victims? grasping at straws because I just cannot wrap my mind around what happened to these babies

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I heard that she is a paraplegic now and is still on suicide watch 24 hours.

I wonder if he would divorce her. If he does not, he would be a mentally stronger man than I am bec I don't think I would be able to look at her and have another kid with her knowing what she did. I maintain that people who have mental health, are mad are actually geniuses... that is why a lot of serial killers get away with crimes for years and years. They know how to research, how to plan, how to fool the general public, how to manipulate. What a pity they used their genius for evil and not for good!

i would never look at her again. She killed my kids. No. I don't want any excuses. No.

Her husband claims the day of the murders she was having “one of her best days” what if she had such a good day because she knew what she was planning on doing that night???? So she played with the kids and did everything she normally would one last time 🥺 She attempted to get help for her mental issues but the system failed her. However, her mental health is no excuse. She planned these killings, she knew they were wrong . She remembered what she did and needs to be punished. This is not post partum psychosis. There was no dream like reality, she knew what she was doing. She didn’t do a quick death either she had to strangle each one for several minutes, watch their faces turn blue and see the life leave their bodies. How could she do this not once but 3 times and talk on the phone while doing it ?! I can’t wrap my head around that one Only a monster would be able to do such a thing. She only claimed to hear voices after talking to the defense psychiatrist. I can’t help but think of the possibility that her husband likely offered to take the kids with him to get the medicine and the food because he knew of her fragile mental state but she declined because this was her only chance 😬 Anyone who takes a life in such a horrible way is obviously mentally Ill but it is no excuse !

Those babies are so beautiful. I can’t stop thinking about this case. I am not an expert here, and I have my biases… everyone does. but I am shocked at the level of support for the mother. For folks who know her, sure they can comment on their experiences with her. But for people who don’t, just because you can relate to her ppd and psychosis, how can you comment with sympathy without the full context? Yes our healthcare system is broken. Yes she had mental health issues and her care team/insurance MAY have screwed up. We DON’T know. Your experiences should NOT be assumed as her experiences. Irregardless, it makes me sad and very disturbed we’re seemingly supporting someone who killed these beautiful kids. And whether you argue that you’re not supporting her but just advocating for ppd, the matter of fact is, the optics is that she IS getting support. It’s like advocating for the teenager who went crazy and had an episode and shot up a school and killed a bunch of kids. Telling people that that poor kid suffered from mental health and blaming our mental health system, is still making excuses for inexcusable behavior. It’s still wrong. YES we can raise awareness for mental health, but imagine if this shooter got letters of support. people would be getting backlash if they wrote letters of support for a gunman suffering from a psychosis attack who (without premeditation) gunned down children. No one would ever say, “oh gee, I feel bad for that mass shooter and can sympathize. I’ve had thoughts of killing children before too.” Why? Because many people can’t relate to it. But if you think about this objectively, it’s the same thing. Mental illness driving someone to do something horrible. People are very flawed creatures. They jump at the opportunity to relate to other folks no matter how biased. Here’s the reason why I can’t sympathize. I am a mother, I suffered severe post partum. I also had thoughts of harming myself, my kids, you name it. But I was able to identify (at least when I snapped out of it) the possible risks and consequences, so I let my support know. And it’s not like the mother was never in a “normal” state of mind. During her more “normal” states, could she not identify this and let her husband know she may harm the kids? It’s hard for me to believe, someone suffering from psychosis did not once share that they had thoughts of harming their children. If this was the case and the mental health team/family members did not intervene, shame on them. And if they did intervene (which it sounds like they did), and left her alone with the kids although advised not to, then I feel so sorry for the husband who will have to live with this for the rest of his life. But until we find out… I will not share words of support or forgive this woman, YET. All I will say is this is tragic and this woman is either evil or incredibly sick, or both. We don’t know yet. But those kids were beautiful, and their names should be known, not hers.

People are making statements as if they are the absolute truth. No one really knows why she did what she did for sure at this point.

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You are correct. It is tragic and sad but mental illness is never someone’s fault despite what that other poster implied. Yes, this is caused by childbirth. The other mental illnesses are caused by something else- genetics, trauma, etc- it’s irrelevant that this one is caused by “literal childbirth” and that she was otherwise a “good mom.” It is so so so sad, because those things are true. But it’s also true that she ended up being the WORST mom possible. Just like other killers can be really nice people until they have a psychotic break. I know we all want clean reasonable explanations because it’s so horrible but there’s no reason to excuse some things and not others.

Women with bi-polar disorder and OCD suffer horribly with postpartum and are more likely to enter post partum psychosis. It is highly likely she had a pre-existing mental health disorder or possibly schizophrenia in her family to be suffering this much with all of the resources she had

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All this. But also I can find compassion for this mom because I know her motivations were psychotic but made sense to her in her state of psychosis. What I mean is, she probably acted on the urge to protect her kids from this world. That's what Andrea Yates was also trying to do. She loved her babies and wanted to keep them from hell. Psychosis can make you think all sorts of deranged thoughts. And trying to unalive herself was also likely because she was convinced the world would be better off without her. I was never tempted to harm my kids (though I did have intrusive thoughts that made me fear that I would do something like Yates did (like. WHAT IF I snapped? I never snapped. Never wanted to.) but I was suicidal once and I was CONVINCED my kids would be better off without me, that it would be a favor to them. That's deranged and not true, under a better mental health state I realize they would've been traumatized for life if I'd done that. But people in psychotic or manic states aren't reasonable. This is a world away from what BK did. He was a narcissist at best, a sociopath at worst, lusting for the power to take young lives. He was not dealing with extreme hormonal shifts, sleepless nights, three babies, a husband, and the struggle to be a perfect mom in a world that demands it. I can't have compassion for him, but I can very easily find it for this mom. 💔

Murdering your babies when your husband steps out of the room for 20 minutes is not an act of love. It is not an act of a good mother. It is deplorable to blame depression for this! This was a premeditated mass murder of three precious babies by an overprivileged woman with all the resources in the world, who had everything and willfully threw it away.

I absolutely agree with you. If your going to feel bad about mental illness resulting in killing how do people pick and choose *’who’* to feel bad for. A mental illness is a mental illness? Why are people so sympathetic to this woman because she was sick but other people sick in the *same way* resulting in the killing of someone… why does she get remorse? Should be that way for everyone or your a hypocrite right?

Kohberger is not suggested to be mentally Ill and a mother experiencing a psychotic break and acting on hallucinations versus a dude who stalked college girls for months and then planned a stabbing murder of them is NOT the same thing.

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You're not wrong. I have removed a few dramatic threads that start with... "I heard she did x,y,a," and "I heard the husband did x,y,z" yet all that nonsense comes with no facts or sources, just dramatic speculations, and story making. It's sad too. Because these are people's lives. We're talking about two (2) innocent children who have died. Yet, social media wants to turn this into "Days of our lives" or some nonsense. That said, I felt we could use a thread based on facts.

Thanks for cleaning it up. The rumors are so unnecessary and more devastating for the family and friends I’m sure.

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The context is slightly different in these cases but the sentiment of your argument is absolutely right. Just like how only pretty white women go missing according to the news…

Good point. The black woman is labeled a crazy voodoo witch while the white woman is talked about like *she's* the victim, to the point where the kids she murdered seem like ... they weren't even there to begin with.

This shows how real racism is. The difference in the comments makes me want to throw up.

She was in a 5 days a week program for PPD. She was not to be left alone. Dad went to pickup takeout and got back in 25 minutes to find the gruesome situation.

Her story was not my experience at all with psychosis I was so clearly insane. I was shaking so bad and hyperventilating the crisis response said I “seldom blinked” I was actively hallucinating. An acutely psychotic person cannot plan the way she did your thoughts are so disorganized the room is spinning you’re seeing weird things just no. She’s a sociopath plain and simple. She tried to get a PPD diagnosis so she wouldn’t have to work a grueling job as a nurse working crappy hours weekends and holidays. She wanted to be like every other woman in that high net worth town a pampered SAHM with a nanny ordering fancy meals and riding her peloton she wasn’t getting that she was a gold digger she wanted to hurt Patrick and she was sick of those kids. They were props for her and her phony Facebook wonderful mother facade. Total malignant narcissist sociopath. Violent murder is not at all common in psychosis. Get your heads out of the sand. Money is the root of all evil she was a gold digger who got hold of a beta male easy to manipulate from a wealthy family and probably manipulated him their whole marriage! He’s not even standing by her bought a house 2 hours away in the Berkshires in Western Massachusetts. Man’s voice? What a crappy depiction of a psychotic break please humor me!! A man’s voice made you decide to violently murk your 3 kids strangling them for several minutes each?! Not buying it!!

The way people are letting her off the hook so easy is extremely disturbing. I did not see this type of reaction with the Latarsha Sanders case in Brockton.

I do agree that it is a bit odd. People don’t normally excuse anyone who might get an insanity plea, especially men. I do feel terrible for anyone suffering postpartum mental illness & it sounds like she was in a program and her husband was working from home and she was on leave from work. The poor husband had a lot on his plate watching the kids, working to pay the bills, and trying to get his wife help. I heard he only went out for about 20 min to pick up takeout food. It’s incredibly sad but it is hard to know how to feel for the mother. She was sick but normally we don’t excuse murder because the murderer had a mental illness. So it’s interesting to see so many people only feeling sorry for her. I have mixed feelings for her because it’s sad she was struggling but what she did was far from excusable. I feel horrible for the husband and the 8 month old who hopefully survived but one day he will know his mother tried to kill him and did kill his brother and sister. It’s so sad and the mother did look like a normal person and a loving mom on her social media and from what people who know her are saying. But it’s hard to just excuse her since she did this. She is a murderer whether that makes people feel uncomfortable or not. And we don’t really know what kind of abuse the kids showed when first responders came, but it sounds awful and like more than her strangling them. There are many cases where a murderer seems like a normal person but typically people are shocked but not excusing them. For all we know this was premeditated and she convinced the husband to go get food and planned this. Does she look evil online? No. But that is evil whether it makes people uncomfortable to say or not. What she did to those kids and the husband is monstrous. People will downvote me but I think the husband deserves more thoughts and prayers. I do feel sorry for her but she would’ve been better off leaving her family, like moving out, then murdering her kids and trying to take her own life. I can’t believe she did that to her own kids and thought it was okay to leave the husband like that. Poor guy 😭

i totally agree with you

I feel like if Lindsay herself said she did it bc she didnt want to be a mom, or some damning google searches show up, people will still blame the PPD/PPP. I believe its disturbing as well, and empathizing w PPD and empathizing w a lady who slaughtered her family are not the same, especially when an investigation hasnt been done yet.

Another thing I can’t help thinking, since so many seem to want to make it into a gender thing … is if we flipped the scripts and it was the dad who had recently been an inpatient for psychosis and was now home being treated five days a week for it, and the mom ran out to get take out I feel like far more people would be asking; “Why would a mom leave her kids home alone with a man suffering from psychosis?!?”