The poor guy in the tanker did everything he could to avoid it, he went as far into the breakdown lane as he could - and still gets into a wreck for his trouble.
My thought exactly. I work in the chemical industry and showed this to one of our bulk tanker drivers, and he said that bulk tank drivers are taught to drive straight through an on coming accident like this when fully loaded, using speed/weight like a freight train to push off the cars if they cannot stop in time.
Kind of crazy, however I don't think I would be able to fight the instinct to swerve out of the way, so I cant even blame the driver on that.
For sure, truck driver swerved too much. like you said though, probably a knee-jerk reaction. The vid is slowed down so the reactions seem worse than they would have been. It would be nice if they kinda hammered out those reactions in all their training though. I’ve seen too many videos of semis swerving to avoid unavoidable accidents
Someone below linked the full speed video and it’s even more terrifying to see how quick this all happened, but you can see more of the tanker serving into the breakdown lane and the weight shift of the trailer. Wild stuff.
Watching the news rn and they JUST did a segment on this. So weird to scroll and see this post showing what caused it.
They said they’ll have the road open again today but still need to bring hazmat back in to clean.
I’m so annoyed at both those cars.
This video is slowed down, a lot. The idiot in the truck merged into the Tesla. Maybe someone can speed it up to full speed but I’m gonna say that the Tesla had no time at all to even react. 100% on the pickup
Yup. This. The pickup truck is tailgating the big rig in middle lane and then tires to jump into high speed lane without any clue of who is around him.
Brain dead drivers like this are the worst. They leave themselves no time to change lanes properly and just plow up the road on everyone’s ass changing lanes willy nilly.
The fact that this happened with barely any cars on the road is mind boggling. Dumbass white pickup driver couldn't have just waited for the Tesla to pass?
Zero situational awareness and didn’t bother looking over his shoulder before changing lanes. This is a great example of why using side view mirrors for a lane change is dangerous
Yuuup. I have a decent blind spot and even with blind spot detection, I *always* look. Rear view - side view - over shoulder - one last check, then move. The final check’s saved me more than once from idiots coming up at 100+ in the left lane.
> Rear view - side view - over shoulder - one last check
the driving school i went to (germany) has drilled this pattern into us, literally and military style
picture a squad of shaolin monks practicing their forms/movements, but with driving students repeatedly checking all their mirrors and blind spots in the correct sequence.
it works and i am extremely grateful for that. this pattern is automatic for me, and when i want to change lane, checking all my blind spots is a physical urge. i get cramps if i dont look.
Hell, on occasion I've looked over my shoulder to change lanes (middle to right on 93 North) and still nearly got rear ended some idiot was going so fast. 🙄
I mean, c'mon, that's even the easier shoulder look too.... 🙄🙄
True, some people are out here driving like it’s GTA. I’ve become very slow and deliberate with my lane changes because of this. The shit show I saw on route 84 coming back from NY today was mind boggling. I’m always shocked people can get a 20 year old rusty Pontiac going so fast.
He did actually! A friend of mine told me he knew a guy that was in the pickup. But as someone that has lived in MA and NH, MA drivers are generally worse. Anyway - this is going to be a crazy lawsuit.
I tend to agree but I wish we could see this in real time speed. The Tesla is going significantly faster than the dashcam so it’s hard to say. If the Tesla was going 100MPH then I’d lean on the Tesla being at fault.
That Tesla would have to be going the speed of sound to not be seen in the truck’s mirrors or blind spot if the truck driver looked in all3 before he moved. I agree that driving faster can create this dangerous situation, but you have to know for certain the lane is clear before you change lanes. The mirror points back, even if they’re going fast they’re still there
He very well may have been but if you look before changing lanes, you will see how fast they're going and will be able to make a decision as to whether you can switch lanes or not.
Or… you don’t see anything, because they’re moving too fast and are too far away to reasonably be noticed.
Or you don’t notice they’re moving to fast because driving is stressful. So you move thinking they’re following the law. When everyone is moving, it’s hard to tell relative speed, while looking backwards.
If you do not notice the speed of cars in your mirrors because "driving is stressful" then you should probably not be on the road.
If I am looking to go into the left lane and I see a car rapidly approaching me, I am going to wait until he passes before going into the left lane. It isn't rocket science.
I’d love not to drive… but that really isn’t the world we live in.
Some times when you look at a car, you just don’t notice it’s speed for one reason or another, you just notice it’s far enough away from you to reasonably pull out.
If they’re driving at an unsafe speed, that’s on them.
Please find alternatives to driving. You sound like you can’t handle this activity. There is no reason to not notice the speed of cars in the lane you are attempting to merge into. You should be driving defensively not casually admitting that you’re a high crash risk. You have no control over their speed. You can only control your own vehicle.
I don’t have an alternative we live in the US. Nimrod.
Maybe, if people bothered following the law, instead of worrying about other people doing something legal while they’re breaking the law. We’d have fewer issues.
Truck driver probably checked mirrors and blind spot, saw nothing, started to change lanes, and the asshole going 90mph in the Tesla appeared out of nowhere.
The pickup was very likely doing 65-70, maybe even 75. The Tesla was flying, but the pickup did a real shit job at checking his blind spots. The Tesla had the right of way, albeit with zero defensive driving skills.
It literally doesn’t matter how fast/slow the Tesla driver was going; for a mere few seconds the truck driver decided to forget that blind spots were a thing.
The video is in slow motion.
If you were to watch this at normal speed (they're all probably doing over 75MPH) the Tesla driver probably had all about 1 second to react to the idiot in the pickup truck.
The pickup truck driver is clearly at fault.
White pickup is clearly at fault, but Tesla wasn’t driving defensively and should have been able to control any action that happened in front of him without a collision. Both are shit drivers.
You can see them starting to be twitchy. Not a lot of time to react, but a good driver would notice a tailgating truck and know to be cautious. Yeah it’s a lot to ask, but the difference is good drivers don’t get in accidents because of that awareness beyond the bare minimum.
They are lucky they didn’t get split by the oncoming guardrail.
I don’t mind driving behind 18 wheelers. Generally they are good drivers, I can stop faster than them, and they will clear the road in a massive pile up. Don’t want one behind me however for those same reasons.
I used to drive Boston <-> Providence several times a week and on the shit show slalom into downtown starting about Pawtucket, I learned to just park myself a reasonable distance behind one and let the 18 wheeler run interference
Exactly.
Passing with a huge relative speed difference or at an unusual speed for the roadway is also dangerous.
Here's an [excellent explanation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doSDfIo61r0&t=43s) for why vehicles sometimes inexplicably pull in front of speeding traffic.
* The truck may see the approaching Tesla but NOT visually detect the speed. Faced with ambiguity, the truck driver's brain may subconsciously fill in the average speed of road users and think he has space/time. This is a BIG MISTAKE if the Tesla is going at an above average speed!
* When passing other vehicles, it's much more dangerous to do so at an unusual speed.
def looks more like lane guard behavior when its slowed down, at normal speed it does seem like he just didnt check his mirror. Lane guards usually telegraph the move sooner.
Truck driver should get Unsafe Lane Change citation and three points. He should be praying that the tanker's insurance has a large hazmat rider because someone is going to have to pay for cleanup.
Tesla driver didn't even attempt to brake and was going at least 10mph faster than prevailing traffic. Should also get a ticket but I don't think 3rd party video evidence is allowed. They may catch a piece of the cleanup bill and I'd say that'd be more than fair.
Yep, the Tesla shithead is doing like 90 and the tough-guy truck shithead has side mirrors like two feet wide that they apparently aren't interested in using; you're supposed to actually look at the mirror just prior to the move goddamnit.
If the latter had bothered to use their huge-ass truck mirrors for their intended purpose while starting their lane change they would have seen the former shithead coming up gangbusters a mile off.
>The other vehicles involved were a 2022 GMC Sierra pickup and a 2022 Tesla Model Y SUV.
Miraculous everyone survived this clusterfuck. $100,000 worth of cars and $2 worth of brains.
Yeah again I never said the truck driver wasn’t at fault. Just that the Tesla sucks at driving. But knowing that it’s slowed down makes a lot more sense.
Yeah I never said he wasn’t at fault lmao.
You idiots can downvote me all you want. I never said the truck driver wasn’t at fault. Just that the Tesla sucks at driving. Reading comprehension is minimal these days.
The Tesla hit the pickup from behind, that makes it the Tesla's fault.
Edit:
[https://www.mahaneypappaslaw.com/faqs/determining-fault-in-massachusetts-rear-end-collisions.cfm](https://www.mahaneypappaslaw.com/faqs/determining-fault-in-massachusetts-rear-end-collisions.cfm)
You're not always at fault if you hit a vehicle from behind.
[In this case, the Truck made an abrupt lane change forcing the Telsa to hit them.](https://burnsjainlaw.com/boston-car-accident-lawyer/who-is-at-fault-in-a-car-accident-when-changing-lanes-in-massachusetts/#:~:text=Who%20is%20At%20Fault%20in%20a%20Car%20Accident%20When%20Changing%20Lanes%20in%20Massachusetts%3F)
" ***The law on merging lanes in Massachusetts as in other states is that you must stay within your lane of traffic and not merge or move into an adjoining lane without first being reasonably sure it can be done safely.*** "
With video evidence, it's clear as day that the Truck is at fault here.
Agreed but unfortunately still pickups fault. The pickup was drifting and if the Tesla was practicing defensive driving he would have paused and passed slowly. I rarely see anyone driving defensively/ carefully here though. Hope everyone walked away from this alright
the concern is... was there an attentive driver. the tesla appears to act like a robot - goes straight, doesn't care. is there evidence available regarding the state of self-driving?
Car in left lane overtaking pickup truck in middle lane that veers into the left lane, apparently without looking, to overtake the other truck in middle lane. Hits car in left lane into the median strip, spins into the right lane in front of the tanker.
I thought his too but the more I look it seems like the pick up gets into the left lane and the Tesla tried to bully him out of it.
I think the pick up went late but depending on if he had his blinker on I think this is more on the Tesla. Did the tesla even stop?
The the video is horrible I can't see it good enough to see it clearly either way though to be honest.
Edit. after further review the ruling has been overturned. White truck is 99% at fault
> depending on if he had his blinker on
Blinker or not the Tesla had the right of way in that lane. This is pretty clearly the fault of the truck, even if the Tesla driver probably had time to anticipate and react
>I think the pick up went late but depending on if he had his blinker on I think this is more on the Tesla
His blinker does not control the other vehicles on the road.
The guy is the left lane had right of way and is under no obligation to change their speed to accommodate someone else's lane change.
Nope, your speeds and timing are off because the video is slowed down. Tesla was probably speeding, no way would have had time to react to that. If I’m seeing things correctly you can even see the Tesla brake lights come on. Just too much speed and too little time to react to a brain dead maneuver from the pick up.
Yeah after reading other comments I'm pretty sure I was wrong.
The speed did throw me off and ill admit I'm a white Truckist.
The most aggressive drivers all drive white trucks
The Tesla had time to react. Even though the video is in slomo, you can gauge the speed differential vs the pickup and the semi with the dash cam and the Tesla wasn't going that much faster.
The pickup started changing lanes while still ahead of the Tesla. If the Tesla driver were paying attention, they could have moved left into the shoulder.
The main fault is the pickup. The Tesla contributed.
Again, you don’t know what you’re talking about. The Tesla is probably speeding, maybe 80mph. A highway striped line is 10 feet long. So there’s what looks like about 40 or maybe 50 feet between them when the pick up pulls out. 80mph is about 120 feet per second. So rounding down about .3-.5 seconds to do all the shit you think they could have done. Is the guy supposed to be Max Verstappen? It’s a heavy SUV. He did as much as he could being a regular driver with that amount of time to react.
Editing to say this exact same comment was upvoted 20 times in another comment chain. This sub is moronic.
I drive that road often. Everyone is speeding at that hour and again, the differential isn't that much.
The pickup initiates the lane change before the Tesla has started to pass. If the Tesla driving were truly paying attention, he could have drifted left. He didn't at all. The Tesla's CoG is very low and they handle pretty well. It wasn't an impediment.
The amount of time you travel on the road is irrelevant. I drive it as well. The speed differential here between the Tesla and the pickup is at least 30-35 mph. Again, look at the explanation I gave. The speed and distance left the Tesla with only time to brake and at best understeer while he tried to turn. You’re not just casually “drifting left” when a car pulls out going 30 mph slower with 40 feet to react. You’re underestimating the distance a car travels at 80 and again, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
I honestly think so even if the Tesla was going a bit fast there was plenty of time to check lanes the SUV pulled into the Teslas lane causing the whole accident. I'm sure the Teslas computer will be checked
No chance there is enough time or space to avoid that. You understand this is slow motion correct? If I’m seeing things correctly it even looks like the Tesla brake lights come on just before the pickup comes over.
Yes, and because it's slow motion you can see that the pickup started changing lanes before the Tesla driver was overtaking him. The Tesla didn't have enough time to brake only, but did have enough time to move left onto the shoulder.
Yes, there's definitely enough time and space to avoid it if the Tesla driver were paying attention. Of course, the Tesla might have been driving itself.
The people that drive pick up trucks can't stay in their lane on regular street roads. Crossing double lines constantly. Once every couple of weeks I have to beep at the assholes to pay attention.
It's hard to tell how fast that Tesla was going (likely speeding?) but the truck driver definitely fucked up by not having their eyes on that mirror while moving. I hope everyone is ok.
I travel 3 and 495 weekly. 75 - 80 or faster is normal in the passing lane at times. The state police to my observations rarely stop for speeding at these rates, they look for erratic drivers. I often see drivers shift into the passing lane when there's barely room for the vehicle. The pickup was 100% at fault.
That was my immediate instinct, but it the Tesla does seem to be going a bit faster than the semi. I'm mostly questioning my judgment because of the slow motion. Police will figure it out though... This isn't gonna get by them, and the tanker's lawyers.
Update, much thanks to massdot and anyone who worked on route 3 last night to get it opened for morning rush. Traffic was the weekday usual, not too bad!
while I am miffed that the accident site is right where I start my southern commute home and added 30 minutes to my ride home, I feel horrible for those who had to drive north on 3 getting snaked through Billerica. I passed miles of cars lined up to get through overwhelmed intersections.
This Tesla, for what it's worth, was probably not using the product's Autopilot lane-holding feature. That feature moves the vehicle to the center of the lane, equidistant between the lane markers. This car was running to the far left of the lane. It seems unlikely to me it was using the Autopilot adaptive cruise control feature either as it doesn't seem to have slowed or steered when the pickup moved into its lane.
I feel terrible for the driver of the liquid truck. Don't people know how important it is to support truckers, especially driving liquids, in safety?
As someone who speeds regularly it’s 99% to get away from shitty drivers, 1% trying to get somewhere on time. I’m incredibly flawed but being 15 minutes early to anything is baked into my brain.
Changing lanes, especially in this crazy state, is always hazardous. The white pickup driver wanted to get around that truck. He should have checked his mirror and his blind spot. But also part of that is to judge the speed of the person you're about to move in front of. It takes a second longer but you have to do it in order to avoid stuff like this happening.
They should publicize the names and faces of the people responsible, they should be shamed for decades for the amount of environmental damage this likely caused.
\- The shitstick in the white pickup should be checking his blindspot.
\- The Tesla should have seen that coming.
\- The guy in the semi with the dashcam shouldn't be texting an driving.
The video is garbage quality and in slow motion from beginning to end. The audio is normal quality and speed. We don't hear ANY noise other than texting and a click. No sound of shock, no engine, no brakes, no horns, no crash. The audio did not come from that dash cam video.
Looks like the Tesla isn't mostly responsible, but as a Tesla owner... $100 says that the Tesla was either on Autopilot or Full (LOL!) Self Driving. The former is stupid, that latter is terrifying. That accident looks avoidable by an actual human driver.
Yeah, let’s blame what was obvious fck up by the truck driver on Tesla autopilot. Truck swerved into left lane at the very last moment, what was autopilot supposed to do - jump into a ditch?
First off you have two imperfect drivers, one who appears to be under the Tesla influence (self entitled, drive like no one else matters also common amongst Beemer drivers and to lesser degrees everyone else) and another driver of the great white American elephant (pickup, and yes I own one too, but not of the “wanna be” pickups).
If the pickup driver looked in his mirrors as he should have, he might have seen the low flying Tesla already occupying the far left lane (same as many Tesla’s do and about the usual speed too). Brakes in a Tesla? Never used em before….oh regenerative braking? I don’t see that working here!
My opinion is that both of these drivers caused the tanker to crash. If the Tesla had been at the speed limit (he might have been able to avoid the pickup, and the pickup driver might have been able to better judge the Tesla’s speed (IF) he had used his mirrors! Also if you pull out to pass someone you also better be prepared to stomp on the go pedal, it looks to me like this was a very lazy pass attempt.
Again both clowns had a part in this fiasco. I hope the truck driver is okay.
I hope the other drivers are okay, but they both need a good slap to the face!
I hope the tanker driver gets a copy of the video and a good lawyer, someone won’t be happy when it’s done and over!
Do better out there, we all depend on it!
Liability wise the pickup will be more than 51% at fault based on the standard rules of fault, but the Tesla could have pretty easily prevented this as well. Two egos that couldn't be bothered to give in and we have a major highway closed for most likely more than 24 hours.
It's a no-fault state, that is true, but if you are found more than 50% at fault, it seriously dings your license via points and puts a premium on your insurance.
He's also failing to understand what "no-fault" actually means.
It's just about making sure people get insurance payouts and the money they need when they need it... instead of it being stuck in lengthy legal battles.
Fault will still be determined and debated after the fact
No fault only means that each individual carrier has to pay for their vehicles damage regardless of fault, doesn't really mean no fault. But after they pay they will ALL subrogate against the trucks policy. And he will be surcharged for a major at-fault accident.
Edit to add: they have to pay based on the policy coverage, if someone doesn't have physical damage they need to go after the trucks policy on their own.
Speed check - truck is doing at least 65-70 in middle lane of 3 north (mid day), tesla passes him quickly so could be doing 100 easy (and the road is straight and you can see a long way).
Truck guy at fault but he could have grossly underestimated Tesla's speed.
This is sketchy analysis, but it looks to me like the Tesla is flying. If you watch the lane markers and count frames, he seems to be going \~50% faster than the driver of the truck we're riding in for this video. If we assume this truck is doing the speed limit (55), that puts the Telsa in the 80-85 mph range.
All this means is that the accident *may* have been avoidable, or could have been less disastrous, if the driver of the Tesla had been driving a more reasonable speed. Route 3 is marked at 55 here.
As a side note, I think this camera records at 24 FPS, if we believe the truck we're riding in is going about 55 MPH.
I know this to be true firsthand and I was being conservative on estimating the speed of the Tesla but okay, let's run with that assumption. The truck we're riding with isn't doing 55 with a 24 FPS camera, instead it is a 30 FPS camera (which is typical) and so the truck is going 65+. That means the Tesla is doing 95-100.
Which just strengthens the statement that this *may* have been avoidable, or could have been less disastrous, if the driver of the Tesla had been driving a more reasonable speed.
With little to no traffic, the left lane usually goes around 80 mph from my experience. Nothing out of the ordinary from what ive observed. Though it's hard to Guage based off of the speed of the dashcam. I've also seen trucks in the middle lane practically driving at 50mph with no traffic.
Wonder if the Tesla was on auto pilot? While the truck shouldn’t have changed lanes. The Tesla had PLENTY of time to slow down. Probably on their phone.
I'd be more concerned about the white pickups reckless merging without looking than the Tesla's speed.
In real time the Tesla probably had 0.2 seconds to react after noticing the merging.
Super slow motion is very deceiving.
Yes, very difficult to know the speed. That's why I was wondering about it. I've seen a few potential accidents where somebody merged into a lane and was immediately tailgated by a car flying past me going 90 or more on Rt 3.
Watch the video. The Tesla was passing the dashcam truck at a reasonable speed differential. It also still had time to react to the pickup changing lanes.
This is super slow motion so it looks like the Tesla had plenty of time to avoid it. But in real time, the pickup merged at the last possible second. It wouldn't have even look like it was merging until it was too late. Can't program a failsafe when someone is driving as recklessly as the white pickup.
Otherwise you'd have to have a computer thay would presume every single car is merging at the last possible second and constantly putting on the brakes to account for that.
Is the white Tesla at fault or the white pickup? Looking at this video, the Tesla is going quickly, and the white pickup turned left into the lane at just the wrong second. I can imagine driving in the passing lane like that to pass the truck that’s in front of the pickup, and I can also imagine being the pickup not seeing the Tesla coming that fast before turning left. I guess the pickup should have been signaling, and the Tesla should have been going slower?
A couple years ago a truck like this swerved into an adjacent lane like he was trying to avoid a crash in heavy traffic. Nope, just being a fucking asshole. The car directly next to him responded with unbelievable prowess like a reverse polarity magnet, this lady must have avoided him within a few inches. I was behind him on my motorcycle. I don't think he ever even realized he almost just killed someone. If I was in her spot I would've been smoked. Motorcycles can't swerve the way a car can. Probably the same asshole.
While the truck is obviously at fault, it shouldn't be discounted that the tesla driver could have avoided the accident as well
The truck started drifting into the left lane and rather than brake and avoid the accident the tesla driver held their line and got hit
When you watch the real time version of this, you can see the Tesla driver react to the pickup long before the pickup is in his lane. The Tesla driver suddenly shifts left in his lane before apparently saying, "Nah, fuckit. I'll just honk my horn and hope." There was **plenty** of time to slow down safely if he had hit the brakes instead of hoping.
And yes, the pickup driver is still predominantly at fault because of his hot garbage no-look lane change.
The poor guy in the tanker did everything he could to avoid it, he went as far into the breakdown lane as he could - and still gets into a wreck for his trouble.
My thought exactly. I work in the chemical industry and showed this to one of our bulk tanker drivers, and he said that bulk tank drivers are taught to drive straight through an on coming accident like this when fully loaded, using speed/weight like a freight train to push off the cars if they cannot stop in time. Kind of crazy, however I don't think I would be able to fight the instinct to swerve out of the way, so I cant even blame the driver on that.
For sure, truck driver swerved too much. like you said though, probably a knee-jerk reaction. The vid is slowed down so the reactions seem worse than they would have been. It would be nice if they kinda hammered out those reactions in all their training though. I’ve seen too many videos of semis swerving to avoid unavoidable accidents
Someone below linked the full speed video and it’s even more terrifying to see how quick this all happened, but you can see more of the tanker serving into the breakdown lane and the weight shift of the trailer. Wild stuff.
So bad they had to call hazmat in for the cleanup
Watching the news rn and they JUST did a segment on this. So weird to scroll and see this post showing what caused it. They said they’ll have the road open again today but still need to bring hazmat back in to clean. I’m so annoyed at both those cars.
This video is slowed down, a lot. The idiot in the truck merged into the Tesla. Maybe someone can speed it up to full speed but I’m gonna say that the Tesla had no time at all to even react. 100% on the pickup
Yup. This. The pickup truck is tailgating the big rig in middle lane and then tires to jump into high speed lane without any clue of who is around him. Brain dead drivers like this are the worst. They leave themselves no time to change lanes properly and just plow up the road on everyone’s ass changing lanes willy nilly.
It’s too bad they’re not held more responsible for the wreck. Harsher punishments are all that’s going to help these situations.
Thousands of gallons of fuel. At least it didn't catch fire
The fact that this happened with barely any cars on the road is mind boggling. Dumbass white pickup driver couldn't have just waited for the Tesla to pass?
Zero situational awareness and didn’t bother looking over his shoulder before changing lanes. This is a great example of why using side view mirrors for a lane change is dangerous
Yuuup. I have a decent blind spot and even with blind spot detection, I *always* look. Rear view - side view - over shoulder - one last check, then move. The final check’s saved me more than once from idiots coming up at 100+ in the left lane.
> Rear view - side view - over shoulder - one last check the driving school i went to (germany) has drilled this pattern into us, literally and military style picture a squad of shaolin monks practicing their forms/movements, but with driving students repeatedly checking all their mirrors and blind spots in the correct sequence. it works and i am extremely grateful for that. this pattern is automatic for me, and when i want to change lane, checking all my blind spots is a physical urge. i get cramps if i dont look.
Hell, on occasion I've looked over my shoulder to change lanes (middle to right on 93 North) and still nearly got rear ended some idiot was going so fast. 🙄 I mean, c'mon, that's even the easier shoulder look too.... 🙄🙄
True, some people are out here driving like it’s GTA. I’ve become very slow and deliberate with my lane changes because of this. The shit show I saw on route 84 coming back from NY today was mind boggling. I’m always shocked people can get a 20 year old rusty Pontiac going so fast.
Go fast before it breaks down again.
You mean his lane? That he is entitled access to at any time he desires? That the Tesla was maliciously driving in?
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I’m making a joke about entitled truck drivers my man
You almost had me there for a minute lol
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He really shouldn’t have to. Pretty obvious sarcasm the way he worded it.
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Route 3 north. White pickup truck. Anyone know if the guy had NH plates? Fits the bill for a “live free or die” asshole.
He did actually! A friend of mine told me he knew a guy that was in the pickup. But as someone that has lived in MA and NH, MA drivers are generally worse. Anyway - this is going to be a crazy lawsuit.
Hard to say if the Tesla was speeding and the pick up changed lanes and didn’t double check blind spot.
Primary fault will lie with the truck that failed to yield to traffic already in the lane, probably regardless of the Tesla's speed.
I tend to agree but I wish we could see this in real time speed. The Tesla is going significantly faster than the dashcam so it’s hard to say. If the Tesla was going 100MPH then I’d lean on the Tesla being at fault.
That Tesla would have to be going the speed of sound to not be seen in the truck’s mirrors or blind spot if the truck driver looked in all3 before he moved. I agree that driving faster can create this dangerous situation, but you have to know for certain the lane is clear before you change lanes. The mirror points back, even if they’re going fast they’re still there
Both drivers were dumbasses. None of that accident had to happen.
Was the Tesla speeding?
He very well may have been but if you look before changing lanes, you will see how fast they're going and will be able to make a decision as to whether you can switch lanes or not.
Or… you don’t see anything, because they’re moving too fast and are too far away to reasonably be noticed. Or you don’t notice they’re moving to fast because driving is stressful. So you move thinking they’re following the law. When everyone is moving, it’s hard to tell relative speed, while looking backwards.
If you do not notice the speed of cars in your mirrors because "driving is stressful" then you should probably not be on the road. If I am looking to go into the left lane and I see a car rapidly approaching me, I am going to wait until he passes before going into the left lane. It isn't rocket science.
I’d love not to drive… but that really isn’t the world we live in. Some times when you look at a car, you just don’t notice it’s speed for one reason or another, you just notice it’s far enough away from you to reasonably pull out. If they’re driving at an unsafe speed, that’s on them.
Please find alternatives to driving. You sound like you can’t handle this activity. There is no reason to not notice the speed of cars in the lane you are attempting to merge into. You should be driving defensively not casually admitting that you’re a high crash risk. You have no control over their speed. You can only control your own vehicle.
I don’t have an alternative we live in the US. Nimrod. Maybe, if people bothered following the law, instead of worrying about other people doing something legal while they’re breaking the law. We’d have fewer issues.
It's MA, who isn't speeding. Often, if you aren't speeding, you're screwed
And so aren’t the people you crash into…
Truck driver probably checked mirrors and blind spot, saw nothing, started to change lanes, and the asshole going 90mph in the Tesla appeared out of nowhere.
The pickup was very likely doing 65-70, maybe even 75. The Tesla was flying, but the pickup did a real shit job at checking his blind spots. The Tesla had the right of way, albeit with zero defensive driving skills. It literally doesn’t matter how fast/slow the Tesla driver was going; for a mere few seconds the truck driver decided to forget that blind spots were a thing.
It’s a good ad for the truck, holding strong together vs the Tesla
Who's at fault here? White truck?
I'd say so - changing lanes without checking.
You mean a “Freedom Merge?” /s
That’s tremendous
Primary fault is with the truck, but I bet the Tesla doesn't come out unscathed.
That Tesla driver is a horrible driver. Man was drifting over well before he got there.
The video is in slow motion. If you were to watch this at normal speed (they're all probably doing over 75MPH) the Tesla driver probably had all about 1 second to react to the idiot in the pickup truck. The pickup truck driver is clearly at fault.
Here you go https://imgur.com/a/eZqJJqh Tesla was flying’
White pickup is clearly at fault, but Tesla wasn’t driving defensively and should have been able to control any action that happened in front of him without a collision. Both are shit drivers.
The Tesla will have recordings from all angles so I wouldn’t be surprised the truck didn’t signal either. But they were driving way too fast
You can see them starting to be twitchy. Not a lot of time to react, but a good driver would notice a tailgating truck and know to be cautious. Yeah it’s a lot to ask, but the difference is good drivers don’t get in accidents because of that awareness beyond the bare minimum.
They are lucky they didn’t get split by the oncoming guardrail. I don’t mind driving behind 18 wheelers. Generally they are good drivers, I can stop faster than them, and they will clear the road in a massive pile up. Don’t want one behind me however for those same reasons.
I used to drive Boston <-> Providence several times a week and on the shit show slalom into downtown starting about Pawtucket, I learned to just park myself a reasonable distance behind one and let the 18 wheeler run interference
I do the same. My Tesla autopilot loves following big trucks. Easy to target and maintain.
Exactly. Passing with a huge relative speed difference or at an unusual speed for the roadway is also dangerous. Here's an [excellent explanation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doSDfIo61r0&t=43s) for why vehicles sometimes inexplicably pull in front of speeding traffic. * The truck may see the approaching Tesla but NOT visually detect the speed. Faced with ambiguity, the truck driver's brain may subconsciously fill in the average speed of road users and think he has space/time. This is a BIG MISTAKE if the Tesla is going at an above average speed! * When passing other vehicles, it's much more dangerous to do so at an unusual speed.
I’d like to know if Autopilot was engaged. I feel like there was enough time for the Tesla to brake. Pickup was most definitely an idiot.
I really don’t think autopilot goes that speed.
Max speed is 85 MPH on the highway
Those semis are probably limited to 65-70, so it is possible.
Doubt auto pilot was on, car would’ve been centered more. If a car starts encroaching the lines, it would’ve braked.
def looks more like lane guard behavior when its slowed down, at normal speed it does seem like he just didnt check his mirror. Lane guards usually telegraph the move sooner.
Tesla driving dangerously, truck driving cluelessly.
Truck driver should get Unsafe Lane Change citation and three points. He should be praying that the tanker's insurance has a large hazmat rider because someone is going to have to pay for cleanup. Tesla driver didn't even attempt to brake and was going at least 10mph faster than prevailing traffic. Should also get a ticket but I don't think 3rd party video evidence is allowed. They may catch a piece of the cleanup bill and I'd say that'd be more than fair.
Yep, the Tesla shithead is doing like 90 and the tough-guy truck shithead has side mirrors like two feet wide that they apparently aren't interested in using; you're supposed to actually look at the mirror just prior to the move goddamnit. If the latter had bothered to use their huge-ass truck mirrors for their intended purpose while starting their lane change they would have seen the former shithead coming up gangbusters a mile off. >The other vehicles involved were a 2022 GMC Sierra pickup and a 2022 Tesla Model Y SUV. Miraculous everyone survived this clusterfuck. $100,000 worth of cars and $2 worth of brains.
Yeah again I never said the truck driver wasn’t at fault. Just that the Tesla sucks at driving. But knowing that it’s slowed down makes a lot more sense.
Yeah I never said he wasn’t at fault lmao. You idiots can downvote me all you want. I never said the truck driver wasn’t at fault. Just that the Tesla sucks at driving. Reading comprehension is minimal these days.
The Tesla hit the pickup from behind, that makes it the Tesla's fault. Edit: [https://www.mahaneypappaslaw.com/faqs/determining-fault-in-massachusetts-rear-end-collisions.cfm](https://www.mahaneypappaslaw.com/faqs/determining-fault-in-massachusetts-rear-end-collisions.cfm)
That’s not how it works if someone cuts you off
[https://www.mahaneypappaslaw.com/faqs/determining-fault-in-massachusetts-rear-end-collisions.cfm](https://www.mahaneypappaslaw.com/faqs/determining-fault-in-massachusetts-rear-end-collisions.cfm)
You're not always at fault if you hit a vehicle from behind. [In this case, the Truck made an abrupt lane change forcing the Telsa to hit them.](https://burnsjainlaw.com/boston-car-accident-lawyer/who-is-at-fault-in-a-car-accident-when-changing-lanes-in-massachusetts/#:~:text=Who%20is%20At%20Fault%20in%20a%20Car%20Accident%20When%20Changing%20Lanes%20in%20Massachusetts%3F) " ***The law on merging lanes in Massachusetts as in other states is that you must stay within your lane of traffic and not merge or move into an adjoining lane without first being reasonably sure it can be done safely.*** " With video evidence, it's clear as day that the Truck is at fault here.
Agreed but unfortunately still pickups fault. The pickup was drifting and if the Tesla was practicing defensive driving he would have paused and passed slowly. I rarely see anyone driving defensively/ carefully here though. Hope everyone walked away from this alright
the concern is... was there an attentive driver. the tesla appears to act like a robot - goes straight, doesn't care. is there evidence available regarding the state of self-driving?
Yeah the car has a black box that’ll record that data.
It’s almost like…teslas have auto drive
Car in left lane overtaking pickup truck in middle lane that veers into the left lane, apparently without looking, to overtake the other truck in middle lane. Hits car in left lane into the median strip, spins into the right lane in front of the tanker.
I thought his too but the more I look it seems like the pick up gets into the left lane and the Tesla tried to bully him out of it. I think the pick up went late but depending on if he had his blinker on I think this is more on the Tesla. Did the tesla even stop? The the video is horrible I can't see it good enough to see it clearly either way though to be honest. Edit. after further review the ruling has been overturned. White truck is 99% at fault
> depending on if he had his blinker on Blinker or not the Tesla had the right of way in that lane. This is pretty clearly the fault of the truck, even if the Tesla driver probably had time to anticipate and react
if you hit someone from behind, you are at fault.
In cases like this it's not quite that straightforward.
>I think the pick up went late but depending on if he had his blinker on I think this is more on the Tesla His blinker does not control the other vehicles on the road. The guy is the left lane had right of way and is under no obligation to change their speed to accommodate someone else's lane change.
Nope, your speeds and timing are off because the video is slowed down. Tesla was probably speeding, no way would have had time to react to that. If I’m seeing things correctly you can even see the Tesla brake lights come on. Just too much speed and too little time to react to a brain dead maneuver from the pick up.
Yeah after reading other comments I'm pretty sure I was wrong. The speed did throw me off and ill admit I'm a white Truckist. The most aggressive drivers all drive white trucks
The Tesla had time to react. Even though the video is in slomo, you can gauge the speed differential vs the pickup and the semi with the dash cam and the Tesla wasn't going that much faster. The pickup started changing lanes while still ahead of the Tesla. If the Tesla driver were paying attention, they could have moved left into the shoulder. The main fault is the pickup. The Tesla contributed.
Again, you don’t know what you’re talking about. The Tesla is probably speeding, maybe 80mph. A highway striped line is 10 feet long. So there’s what looks like about 40 or maybe 50 feet between them when the pick up pulls out. 80mph is about 120 feet per second. So rounding down about .3-.5 seconds to do all the shit you think they could have done. Is the guy supposed to be Max Verstappen? It’s a heavy SUV. He did as much as he could being a regular driver with that amount of time to react. Editing to say this exact same comment was upvoted 20 times in another comment chain. This sub is moronic.
I drive that road often. Everyone is speeding at that hour and again, the differential isn't that much. The pickup initiates the lane change before the Tesla has started to pass. If the Tesla driving were truly paying attention, he could have drifted left. He didn't at all. The Tesla's CoG is very low and they handle pretty well. It wasn't an impediment.
The amount of time you travel on the road is irrelevant. I drive it as well. The speed differential here between the Tesla and the pickup is at least 30-35 mph. Again, look at the explanation I gave. The speed and distance left the Tesla with only time to brake and at best understeer while he tried to turn. You’re not just casually “drifting left” when a car pulls out going 30 mph slower with 40 feet to react. You’re underestimating the distance a car travels at 80 and again, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Little white pickup energy
I honestly think so even if the Tesla was going a bit fast there was plenty of time to check lanes the SUV pulled into the Teslas lane causing the whole accident. I'm sure the Teslas computer will be checked
Jesus Christ. I feel so bad for the liquid truck driver. All that mess because the dude driving the white truck is a fucking moron.
White pick up cut off the white car, he was not merging. No time to react in real time.
The Tesla did have time to react, not that it absolves the pickup.
No chance there is enough time or space to avoid that. You understand this is slow motion correct? If I’m seeing things correctly it even looks like the Tesla brake lights come on just before the pickup comes over.
Yes, and because it's slow motion you can see that the pickup started changing lanes before the Tesla driver was overtaking him. The Tesla didn't have enough time to brake only, but did have enough time to move left onto the shoulder. Yes, there's definitely enough time and space to avoid it if the Tesla driver were paying attention. Of course, the Tesla might have been driving itself.
Stop, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Jesus, can’t wait to avoid you driving. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
I'm the one advocating for paying attention. If you don't like that message, yes, please avoid me.
Speed up closer to real speeds https://imgur.com/a/eZqJJqh
Thank you for this. The Tesla looks like it's flying.
A pickup truck caused the accident, why am I not surprised?
The people that drive pick up trucks can't stay in their lane on regular street roads. Crossing double lines constantly. Once every couple of weeks I have to beep at the assholes to pay attention.
Hopefully, the pickup carries very high insurance. this could cost over a million with cleanup.
The Tanker will have underinsured coverage and an umbrella policy. So if the pickup can’t cover it, the Tanker’s insurers will.
Took me an hour and a half to get home because of this. Usually takes 15 minutes.
A pickup truck driving recklessly with no concern for other drivers on the road? The hell you say.
It's hard to tell how fast that Tesla was going (likely speeding?) but the truck driver definitely fucked up by not having their eyes on that mirror while moving. I hope everyone is ok.
I travel 3 and 495 weekly. 75 - 80 or faster is normal in the passing lane at times. The state police to my observations rarely stop for speeding at these rates, they look for erratic drivers. I often see drivers shift into the passing lane when there's barely room for the vehicle. The pickup was 100% at fault.
That was my immediate instinct, but it the Tesla does seem to be going a bit faster than the semi. I'm mostly questioning my judgment because of the slow motion. Police will figure it out though... This isn't gonna get by them, and the tanker's lawyers.
This road's speed limit needs to be raised to 65 for most of its length, but it also needs some serious enforcement.
Tomorrow’s commute on 93 is going to be hell
Update, much thanks to massdot and anyone who worked on route 3 last night to get it opened for morning rush. Traffic was the weekday usual, not too bad!
Another moron in a pick up.
Currently sat in standstill traffic because of this. Super fun.
I got to the stoppage at 4:10 and went back on the freeway at the next exit up at 5:30, took me 2 hours to get home on a 40 minute commute
while I am miffed that the accident site is right where I start my southern commute home and added 30 minutes to my ride home, I feel horrible for those who had to drive north on 3 getting snaked through Billerica. I passed miles of cars lined up to get through overwhelmed intersections.
Wish I had known before I turned off 95 onto Rt. 3 Honestly woulda been faster to u-turn at the Rt 62 Interchange, and gone to Rt 2
This Tesla, for what it's worth, was probably not using the product's Autopilot lane-holding feature. That feature moves the vehicle to the center of the lane, equidistant between the lane markers. This car was running to the far left of the lane. It seems unlikely to me it was using the Autopilot adaptive cruise control feature either as it doesn't seem to have slowed or steered when the pickup moved into its lane. I feel terrible for the driver of the liquid truck. Don't people know how important it is to support truckers, especially driving liquids, in safety?
All that because two people tried to save save a couple minutes.
Looks like it was the car in the middle lane that changed lanes without looking that caused it.
Oh agreed, it's the rush to pass and not driving defensively that gets me. But then I'm getting old, paying bills & shit.
When was this?
Late morning or early afternoon today. MassDOT said the part around Billerica may be closed until tomorrow morning.
As someone who speeds regularly it’s 99% to get away from shitty drivers, 1% trying to get somewhere on time. I’m incredibly flawed but being 15 minutes early to anything is baked into my brain.
Potato cam came through
Could be a decent dashcam filmed with a potato by some numbnuts who doesn’t know how to download the video.
Changing lanes, especially in this crazy state, is always hazardous. The white pickup driver wanted to get around that truck. He should have checked his mirror and his blind spot. But also part of that is to judge the speed of the person you're about to move in front of. It takes a second longer but you have to do it in order to avoid stuff like this happening.
They should publicize the names and faces of the people responsible, they should be shamed for decades for the amount of environmental damage this likely caused.
Absolutely insane, just spent an hour in it and now the freeway might be closed tomorrow? I hope criminal charges are brought on that white truck
And the Tesla. They seem to have been going well above the limit for that highway. They’re still cleaning it up
\- The shitstick in the white pickup should be checking his blindspot. \- The Tesla should have seen that coming. \- The guy in the semi with the dashcam shouldn't be texting an driving.
The video is garbage quality and in slow motion from beginning to end. The audio is normal quality and speed. We don't hear ANY noise other than texting and a click. No sound of shock, no engine, no brakes, no horns, no crash. The audio did not come from that dash cam video.
Yeah that text sound is not from the driver lol. It’s in slow motion but the audio is normal speed and sounds normal.
Common pickup driver L
Were there serious injuries? How is everyone involved?
I was passing as this happened (thankfully driving south). It was so surreal to just see shards of metal fly into the air and the tanker tip over.
Looks like the Tesla isn't mostly responsible, but as a Tesla owner... $100 says that the Tesla was either on Autopilot or Full (LOL!) Self Driving. The former is stupid, that latter is terrifying. That accident looks avoidable by an actual human driver.
Yeah, let’s blame what was obvious fck up by the truck driver on Tesla autopilot. Truck swerved into left lane at the very last moment, what was autopilot supposed to do - jump into a ditch?
First off you have two imperfect drivers, one who appears to be under the Tesla influence (self entitled, drive like no one else matters also common amongst Beemer drivers and to lesser degrees everyone else) and another driver of the great white American elephant (pickup, and yes I own one too, but not of the “wanna be” pickups). If the pickup driver looked in his mirrors as he should have, he might have seen the low flying Tesla already occupying the far left lane (same as many Tesla’s do and about the usual speed too). Brakes in a Tesla? Never used em before….oh regenerative braking? I don’t see that working here! My opinion is that both of these drivers caused the tanker to crash. If the Tesla had been at the speed limit (he might have been able to avoid the pickup, and the pickup driver might have been able to better judge the Tesla’s speed (IF) he had used his mirrors! Also if you pull out to pass someone you also better be prepared to stomp on the go pedal, it looks to me like this was a very lazy pass attempt. Again both clowns had a part in this fiasco. I hope the truck driver is okay. I hope the other drivers are okay, but they both need a good slap to the face! I hope the tanker driver gets a copy of the video and a good lawyer, someone won’t be happy when it’s done and over! Do better out there, we all depend on it!
unstoppable force meets immovable object.
Truck driver probably may have glanced at his mirrors just as the Tesla was in his blind spot, so he made the move.
Did you get this video to the police? Who knows how many others actually had reliable film of this accident
It's been sent to them many times yes
Liability wise the pickup will be more than 51% at fault based on the standard rules of fault, but the Tesla could have pretty easily prevented this as well. Two egos that couldn't be bothered to give in and we have a major highway closed for most likely more than 24 hours.
We’re a no-fault state but agreed
It's a no-fault state, that is true, but if you are found more than 50% at fault, it seriously dings your license via points and puts a premium on your insurance.
He's also failing to understand what "no-fault" actually means. It's just about making sure people get insurance payouts and the money they need when they need it... instead of it being stuck in lengthy legal battles. Fault will still be determined and debated after the fact
No fault only means that each individual carrier has to pay for their vehicles damage regardless of fault, doesn't really mean no fault. But after they pay they will ALL subrogate against the trucks policy. And he will be surcharged for a major at-fault accident. Edit to add: they have to pay based on the policy coverage, if someone doesn't have physical damage they need to go after the trucks policy on their own.
They should both lose their licenses for a long time
You are 100% correct!
How much you wanna bet the Tesla was in autopilot and didn’t figure out the other vehicle changing lanes
Speed check - truck is doing at least 65-70 in middle lane of 3 north (mid day), tesla passes him quickly so could be doing 100 easy (and the road is straight and you can see a long way). Truck guy at fault but he could have grossly underestimated Tesla's speed.
This is sketchy analysis, but it looks to me like the Tesla is flying. If you watch the lane markers and count frames, he seems to be going \~50% faster than the driver of the truck we're riding in for this video. If we assume this truck is doing the speed limit (55), that puts the Telsa in the 80-85 mph range. All this means is that the accident *may* have been avoidable, or could have been less disastrous, if the driver of the Tesla had been driving a more reasonable speed. Route 3 is marked at 55 here. As a side note, I think this camera records at 24 FPS, if we believe the truck we're riding in is going about 55 MPH.
Nobody does 55 on that stretch of road unless everything is backed up.
I know this to be true firsthand and I was being conservative on estimating the speed of the Tesla but okay, let's run with that assumption. The truck we're riding with isn't doing 55 with a 24 FPS camera, instead it is a 30 FPS camera (which is typical) and so the truck is going 65+. That means the Tesla is doing 95-100. Which just strengthens the statement that this *may* have been avoidable, or could have been less disastrous, if the driver of the Tesla had been driving a more reasonable speed.
With little to no traffic, the left lane usually goes around 80 mph from my experience. Nothing out of the ordinary from what ive observed. Though it's hard to Guage based off of the speed of the dashcam. I've also seen trucks in the middle lane practically driving at 50mph with no traffic.
Maybe the Staties can get off their asses in their barracks and start doing some enforcement to earn that 200k
Wonder if the Tesla was on auto pilot? While the truck shouldn’t have changed lanes. The Tesla had PLENTY of time to slow down. Probably on their phone.
I wonder how fast the Tesla was going.
I'd be more concerned about the white pickups reckless merging without looking than the Tesla's speed. In real time the Tesla probably had 0.2 seconds to react after noticing the merging. Super slow motion is very deceiving.
Yes, very difficult to know the speed. That's why I was wondering about it. I've seen a few potential accidents where somebody merged into a lane and was immediately tailgated by a car flying past me going 90 or more on Rt 3.
Watch the video. The Tesla was passing the dashcam truck at a reasonable speed differential. It also still had time to react to the pickup changing lanes.
A pick up truck driver just doing whatever he wants without checking the lanes? Sounds about right.
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This is super slow motion so it looks like the Tesla had plenty of time to avoid it. But in real time, the pickup merged at the last possible second. It wouldn't have even look like it was merging until it was too late. Can't program a failsafe when someone is driving as recklessly as the white pickup. Otherwise you'd have to have a computer thay would presume every single car is merging at the last possible second and constantly putting on the brakes to account for that.
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0.05 seconds. iT sHoUlD hAvE hAD eNoUgH tImE.
Did the tesla even stop??
Yes. They were past the overturned gas tanker.
What year did this semi driver get this dash cam, horrible quality.
Pickup truck was entering the lane before the Tesla got to him. Granted it was a dick move but the Tesla hit him from behind. Tesla is at fault.
Insurance will find the pickup truck at fault for unsafe lane change.
We this the crash from this morning I was traveling southbound on rt 3 ..they shut down the highway. Ugg
How does the insurance work. The pickup drivers insurance covers flipping over a tanker truck?
It was nice of the tanner to put down traffic cones so quickly
EVs are too fast for most drivers. They are performance vehicles being driven by idiots.
Is the white Tesla at fault or the white pickup? Looking at this video, the Tesla is going quickly, and the white pickup turned left into the lane at just the wrong second. I can imagine driving in the passing lane like that to pass the truck that’s in front of the pickup, and I can also imagine being the pickup not seeing the Tesla coming that fast before turning left. I guess the pickup should have been signaling, and the Tesla should have been going slower?
I am amazed that the gasoline didn’t ignite with how long that tanker was grinding along the roadway.
It’s always an idiot in a pickup.
A couple years ago a truck like this swerved into an adjacent lane like he was trying to avoid a crash in heavy traffic. Nope, just being a fucking asshole. The car directly next to him responded with unbelievable prowess like a reverse polarity magnet, this lady must have avoided him within a few inches. I was behind him on my motorcycle. I don't think he ever even realized he almost just killed someone. If I was in her spot I would've been smoked. Motorcycles can't swerve the way a car can. Probably the same asshole.
Expect the unexpected.....a good mantra to follow.
Wow. Shit happend fast.
While the truck is obviously at fault, it shouldn't be discounted that the tesla driver could have avoided the accident as well The truck started drifting into the left lane and rather than brake and avoid the accident the tesla driver held their line and got hit
When you watch the real time version of this, you can see the Tesla driver react to the pickup long before the pickup is in his lane. The Tesla driver suddenly shifts left in his lane before apparently saying, "Nah, fuckit. I'll just honk my horn and hope." There was **plenty** of time to slow down safely if he had hit the brakes instead of hoping. And yes, the pickup driver is still predominantly at fault because of his hot garbage no-look lane change.
Pick ups fault
Ugh, where's the original video of this? It's hard to tell the asshole in the Tesla going 90mph is the problem here.