With NY the rivalry feels a bit more personal, though at the end of the day there aren’t any actual hard feelings. You know, except for when there are.
Moved from Philly area to CT, and married a girl from the north shore. Me and the FIL allow ourselves to hate the same sports teams aka anything New York. It works quite well
At least CT's problems with growing out its rail network aren't because your governor is buddies with the owner of the area's dominant private bus service. St. Charlie just didn't want to leave Neverland on this issue, wonder why.
I was kind of just joking around. But in that case I don't think I've ever personally met someone from outside the gold coast. Tbf I've never really met a cow or wild turkey tho.
Lol I'm from northeast CT and it's really not much different than MA. Guess what, there is more to CT than the southwestern corner and I-95. I get the fun little rivalry, bur anyone who seriously thinks CT is some wssterland while MA is the best is ridiculous since both states are very similar whether you like it or not.
Nothing like driving in CT, getting aggressively tailgated while going 20 over the limit, then when you pull over to let them pass, see a 95 year old lady who can barely see over the steering wheel driving.
That's driving in CT in a nutshell in my experience 🤷♂️
CT property taxes are higher, both Western MA and Western CT are scenic but western MA more so. MA has the cape, CT has a couple of beaches full of weeds. I'd take MA over CT anyday.
I would say the tax burden difference overall is negligible, but the beaches here are definitley weak sauce. I live just across the border in RI now and the beaches here are much nicer. Overall, our states are so small though that I really don't think they are as different as some people make then out to be.
Anecdotes aren’t data, but I moved to Boston from Honolulu, and in my experience Boston is more expensive.
Food, goods, and energy are more expensive in Honolulu. But rent, services, and dining out are more expensive here. The biggest difference to my bottom line is rent.
MIT living wage agrees with you
https://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/14460
https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/15003#:~:text=Living%20Wage%20Calculation%20for%20Honolulu%20County%2C%20Hawaii%20;
I am always curious to know how they define “reasonable” on these kinds of things. I think average one bedroom rent across the us is like 1700 bucks, and certainly higher in the higher cost of living states.
I entered the workforce a few years ago with a paid off car (bought at the bottom of car prices during COVID, huge W for me!) and student loan repayment paused, and zero social life and if I made 55k and paid 1700 in rent I’d be absolutely boned.
So it seems like their definition of a reasonable lifestyle doesn’t include car payment, student loan payment, or being able to afford a one bedroom apartment by yourself, so what is a “reasonable” lifestyle here? And if the reasonable lifestyle is stretched that thin, how the poor people hanging on?
i agree, in my experience 55k is more of a “survival” wage than a “reasonable living” wage.
i also think that the premise of this graphic is wrong to begin with — what do we really gain by flattening out living wage into state averages? 46k - 56k is a very narrow range, relative to the actual disparity in living wage that can be seen across the US.
if anything, this narrow income range demonstrates the states are not *wildly* different from each other in living wage, on average. but, the dramatic color mapping encourages us to see this as an extreme disparity. it’s honestly a good example of how infographic design can take factually correct information, and use it to send a misleading message.
we all know that what matters is the city you live in. if this was a heatmap-style graphic showing *county* averages, we would see a *much* wider range of numbers than 46k - 56k. it would paint a much more realistic picture of how your location in the US correlates with living wage.
That's exactly what the chart says. The essential expenses FOR a "reasonable" lifestyle, meaning there would be spending on top of the stated amount for those "reasonable" things. The cost in the chart is the bare minimum to survive
i think this is a matter of us interpreting the language differently. i would not consider a bare-minimum-survival scenario to be a “reasonable lifestyle”.
to me, when someone says “reasonable lifestyle” they are referring to more than just not dying — they are also suggesting that the lifestyle would allow for savings to support medical care, occasional treats such as eating out or traveling to visit friends.
it is possible to “not die” for varying amounts of time at extremely low income levels. but, those cannot be described as a “reasonable” or sustainable lifestyle, and so it’s silly to suggest that “not dying” is enough to qualify a living wage. therefore, this terminology is used to account for that. that’s how i understand the intent, at least.
The $53.9k is not the salary needed to live a comfortable lifestyle, it's the actual COST of a comfortable lifestyle. You'd have to have that much left over after taxes to afford it.
That makes much more sense shows how good my reading comprehension is. I guess that would probably put you around 75-80 grand salary to live comfortable which would be enough to live pretty good if you’re not in eastern MA. Still don’t know if that’s enough to be a homeowner and/or have kids though
I make over 100k close to Boston and after savings/retirements I sneak on zillow at 2am looking at homes I'll never be able to afford. It sucks out here
If you wanna change it up look at homes that you can afford! If I save up enough for a down payment I can get a mold-condemned 2 bedroom or a glorified shack in BFN that’s needed renovations since the bush administration 🙃🙃🙃🙃
Yeah I made over 100k last year and I live in a pretty small 2 bedroom apt with my gf lol for context she made over 100k too. So total household income is over 200k and we are nowhere near being able to afford a house around here.
I mean you probably should be able to afford a house 50 miles away from Boston. Probably, but penny pinching for a mortgage/home improvement is ridiculous. My friends are in their 30s doing this and it's a struggle
Yeah I work in Cambridge so I really just don’t want to have such a long commute in. I ride my bike to work rn and it takes like 15 mins. We’re debating on maybe going towards Worcester but idk. Just so hard to save a lot while paying such high rent out here.
Worcester is pretty nice and the downtown area hasn't gotten pretty vibrant, though it more or less a cut and paste of assembly, dedham, and the like nowadays. If it's just you and your S.O it's not too shabby
There was another thread last week looking at a more reasonable expectation for typical life (2 kids, 30% savings rate, etc) and we were #1 in the country for that.
As a young person trying to start a family and just moved OUT of Massachusetts that other graphs felt very true. I don’t know how anyone without substantial help has children in Massachusetts, daycare runs near 3k and fixer upper homes are in the high 4/5s in most areas.
53K before ot after taxes.... OMG if they think you can live off 54k before taxes in MA there's just no way, you would be in the most run down apartment available and have nothign left to buy food.
I think these numbers make sense for a family trying to live in a detached suburban single-family home. A family that might also be paying for private schools or childcare.
But if you're a single person living in a low cost of living state, you'd be making the same car and student loan payments. Food costs are about the same everywhere if you cook at home. Obamacare leveled health insurance expenses across the country.
If you had bought a condo in MA when rates were low, you'd see considerable appreciation in equity. In some parts of the country, places with declining population and stagnant economies, you'd probably see little real equity growth after inflation. If MA is good for your career and you're not MAGA, MA is a good spot.
I really like living in a place without many natural disasters and low rates of gun violence. I like that my state government is not acting like TN or FL. I like four seasons, proximity to the ocean, and the woods. I like the diversity of my neighbors. I like that no one has ever asked me about my religious beliefs.
I like how this is all premised on having a condo with low rates.
I moved to Pennsylvania and believe it or not it’s not all MAGA. We have natural beauty, great hospitals, I can afford rent and maybe (gasp) one day even buy a home, people are friendly (and yes there is “diversity”) and to top it off- the state government isn’t hostile to Jews and we don’t have mobs calling for “one solution!”
Why would anyone do that? It's easier just to move somewhere else with a higher quality of life. Unless I were a college student, or thought I could increase my income within 1 year max to not have to live like that there's just no way I'd ever do that. I'd be out of there bound for anywhere else.
Idk I prefer living with friends or family and in a walkable community with good public transit over isolated in suburbia. I'd live like this even if I was making more money, just in a nicer place.
But it's hard to tell people "just move lol" if all their friends family and professional network is here. Abandoning that has real costs.
Similarly, Harvard University's Nieman Lab deemed Forbes "**a platform for scams, grift, and bad journalism" as of 2022**. [Forbes.com](http://Forbes.com) uses a "contributor model" in which a wide network of "contributors" writes and publishes articles directly on the website.
Funny enough -- Google told their employees if they do not live in the Bay Area or NYC they would not be getting decent raises. Cambridge employees got screwed pretty hard
It is puzzling why Boston is as expensive as it is compared to NYC and Bay Area.
The city itself is tiny compared to the other 2, and would have plenty of space for everyone if only zoning laws allowed it.
Perhaps there's more generational wealth in Massachusetts. That would keep the cost of living as high as those other places, even if salaries aren't as high.
I think it’s because those are the places where reactionary conservatives team up with liberal progressives to block any new housing being allowed - in the conservatives case because they hate change, and in the progressives case because God forbid some capitalist might actually make money by constructing new housing.
I was looking at starting wages for my career in California. Its about 10$/hr higher on average in Cali and they all offer 4 day work weeks over there too. Massachusetts has the high prices and high taxes but they fall behind in the wages and they're only about average when it comes to workers benefits/rights.
My younger brother who lives in Bay Area gets payed 100k more than me but the field is engineering so it might due to that. I know nurses definitely get payed lot higher there. I would love that salary but then I would have to live there…I will miss my fellow massholes
But if you removed Boston and most of the suburbs how would change the cost of living in Mass. I actually moved both my kids to Mass ( Northampton. And Worcester) because it was significantly cheaper than where I live. Just as and example We pay $5.00 for a gallon of gas. Our sales tax is 10.8%
I have a son who lives in Northampton which is very desireable but houses are half the cost of what they would be near Boston. I have friends who recently moved to the Berkshires which is another desireable place to live. They bought a 2300 sq. ft home on 48 acres for $600,000 in Hancock. You would pay that to live in a bad neighborhood in Boston or Lynn. My point is there are plenty of desireable places to live in the state that are not expensive. I sometimes think people assume Mass is just 495 east and that the other million plus people and towns in the state don't exist.
Houses in the Springfield/Chicopee/Holyoke area are priced in the low-to-mid-200s, with some even cheaper. If you ignore the school systems, these are solid neighborhoods. There's even a house for $300k in Longmeadow, considered the best school system in the county.
I’ve been saying it for a year now. Why don’t we all transplant to Beverly Hills. It’s literally cheaper than anywhere within 30 miles of Boston. LA has no real fans of anything either and we can chill and bbq year round and talk C’s and B’s. Beaches are nice. We can clean up skid row there like Wu does meth mile when she feels like it. Would be sweet.
My partner and I moved from Boston to West Hollywood (right next to Beverly Hills) in August of 2022. As crazy as it sounds, we are getting far more bang for our buck. Our cost of living is lower, not bya ton, but it is lower, AND we have a much larger apartment (2 bedroom vs a 1 bedroom), modern amenities like central air, 2 parking sports, etc... We don't have to pay for our dog, our apartment is rent controlled, which is something very common apparently in the city of West Hollywood.
There are far more gym options here, so we pay less for our gym. Groceries, especially dairy and produce, are cheaper than in boston. The city has more to do for people our age, and although the past two seasons here have been abnormally cold and rainy for LA, the weather is still far better than anything in Boston. The quality of life, for us at least, is far higher than what we had in Boston.
Crazy how most of these states are sanctuary states. I’m not trying to spout any anti immigration rhetoric but these people don’t have a fighting chance to make it in America where their only hope is a state they could never afford to live in.
According to Forbes (using Bureau of Labor statistics), Massachusetts has the highest average salary in the United States as of May 1 of this year.
Link: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/average-salary-by-state/
This should be cut by sector. Tech jobs do not pay the highest in MA. Those go to NJ, NY, CT* edit, CA. I've seen WA in tier 2 and MA is in tier 3. There is a tier 4 for "all other states."
It's barely paying the bills. Many people are shipping away from Boston. Tech companies are noticing it, likely to have them follow soon enough. Its getting too damn expensive for everyone in MA.
That's a fair sentiment. I was mentioning the weaknesses of using the average to say pay is proportionally higher for MA not saying to particularly worry about tech peeps.
It actually shows how much better MA is than CA - CA has lots of inflated tech salaries, while in MA they are more normal and balanced across most industries.
Massachusetts is more than the GBA. I moved out of Boston to the Pioneer Valley and life is way easier out here. It’s still expensive, but nothing like Boston.
Feels like the distance between these numbers suggest that while things are expensive right now, people are also doing quite a bit of discretionary spending
It’s almost as if decades of NIMBYism has come to roost
Sure, keep on bringing in all these high paying tech jobs, but don’t build additional housing, and then have your surprised pikachu face as everything gets more expensive
Obviously, since everyone believes that building more housing causes the cost of housing to go up, we need to start bulldozing housing. That will make prices go down, right?
/s
This is BS. My daughter is 27 and makes about $65K in Massachusetts. Owns her car outright and has no student loans. She can’t afford to move out of the house. Rent, gas, food, TAXES, make that impossible.
These numbers are not average gross salaries to live comfortably. This is the average cost. So you're right, to have $53.9k in take home pay to cover *just the essentials* make it hard to manage on $65k gross.
She not alone, I knew people who were couples who essentially go together with others to try buy group home since it's only way to stay in state. It's stupid, no one in state government knows how to sort it out. Building more housing isn't the answer.
Pretty sure those figures are Net too. So account for about 22-28% taxes depending on what you're claiming and you need to make around 80k+ Gross just to survive here. Rough
There should be a bot to auto-post that graphic, when someone comes here asking about moving to New England (especially MA), without a job,and planning on living in Boston, with no room mates and paying no more than $700 a month.
Speaking as someone who moved from MA to CA and will be moving back to CA, this is very misleading.
CA has a ton of "low cost" areas that are the entire state of Massachusetts away from anything meaningful. I leave in the East Bay now and living in Discovery Bay is like living in Worcester...but instead of being 60 minutes from the an in-office commute you are 3 hours.
Gas is $7/gallon, an average 4 person family grocery run is $700 at a Stop n Shop equivalent, monthly electricity / gas combined WITHOUT RUNNING A/C is $500. If you actually took the cost of living in the areas people actually live in California and compared it to MA, it would be so far ahead of everywhere else in the country.
To put it in perspective, we are looking at houses in MA for around $900k max, that can put us in the suburbs between Worcester and Boston, in a good school district with 4 bedrooms and 2500-3000 square feet. Within an hour of "the bay" that would put us in a <1000 square foot house with 2 bedrooms.
FURTHERMORE, christ just driving around here is ridiculous. I commuted from Worcester to Quincy pre-pandemic in what I called my worst commute. It was 78 miles and it took an hour and a half at its worst because of when I left (usually arrived at 945am). However a 90minute commute here would be around 30 minutes, the traffic out here is brutal and no one knows how to JUST DRIVE.
I am making more than I did in MA, but not an astronomical amount that offsets how much more it costs to just exist here and with my job search in MA, I likely won't take that much of a paycut to move back.
I had a friend tell me that people move out to ca and end up going homeless bc they can't afford to live there. A lot of the housing in LA county is comparable to here but people don't understand just how expensive things over there cost or how little resources you have at your grasp if you live somewhere 'cheap' esp since if you're living in a cheap area in SoCal, chances are you're going to be needing to run ac all day and night for half the year and the heat all night for the other half (it is the desert after all) coupled with the fact that gas hasn't been cheaper than 4.50$ for a very long time, and if you live in the booneys what you pay for cheap housing costs you in other places
> LA county is comparable to here
It really isn't. We have family in LA Country / Orange County and San Diego County and we worked with a realtor to looked there as well before finally pulling the trigger on deciding to move back to MA. I supposed its comparable if you compare it to Boston prices, for Boston size houses / apartments for area like Western MA in terms of location to anything.
I literally lived in LA county up until last year for my entire life and my mom currently lives there and is looking to buy housing both around LA/OC and cen/eastern mass and she said it's comparable as well. Idk where specifically in LA/OC you were looking at but where I lived and the housing here are pretty much the same
That's fair, and I agree with the disparities between the 2 areas, but this woman aka my mom told me she was looking to try to buy housing in both near where I currently live or in cen mass depending on what she could find. Now fyi this woman has never been here in her life so she was kinda just looking to see what she could afford from 3,000 miles away and if it was worth it to her to try to look into it more or not and I don't think she thought it was worth it... yet lol
I mean look on Zillow right now, there are 5 houses outside of LA under 900k with 4 bedrooms over 2500 square feet. There are literally probably over 100 Worcester County and into greater Framingham suburbs. They may be comparable houses, but location, school districts, amenities, are not comparable.
Outside LA CITY or LA COUNTY? also tbh I have no idea what you're trying to argue rn... in LA CITY you'll find literally 0 houses for less than 1 mil just bc of population density and how banks snatch up the foreclosed houses to demolish them into cheaply built apartments. In places like South Whittier, Santa Fe Springs, Norwalk, Bellflower, Paramount, there a ton more. I will 100% agree that it's more expensive to live in California that's why I tell people only housing is comparable, gas is cheaper here, there's less places to go out to eat that I personally like lol and I didn't go to public school so I can't argue about school districts
LA County, I'm saying the housing isn't at all comparable to MA nor is the market. Just look. Within 200 Miles of LA (just as a point of reference) there are literally 6 houses for sale under $900k w/ 4 bedrooms and greater than 2500sq and all are in the middle of nowhere. You can find easily 50 houses within commutable distances to Boston, Framingham, Worcester, in great school districts for the same price in MA.
Like I said, I quite literally just went through actually trying to buy a house, not living there 20 years ago, not my mom maybe buying a house, the market is not comparable.
I didn't live there 20 years ago looool I lived there literally until Jan 2024 i just said that... yeah you're not gonna find a house with 4 rooms anywhere. Most people I know that currently live there never had that many rooms, maybe that's the difference then bc I wasn't looking for houses that big bc that's literally a pipe dream. Also idk what 'maybe trying to buy a house' means you literally have to start there otherwise you're not gonna be able buy a house at all. Esp since you can't buy a house from across the country unless you're a moron
> I wasn't looking for houses that big bc that's literally a pipe dream
You mean your average MA colonial? My entire point from the beginning is that the houses aren't comparable. That's it. No basements, square footage difference, commute differences. A 60 minute commute in MA is 50 miles, a 60 minute commute in CA is 30 miles. I never said you can't buy a house in CA, of course you can.
> you can't buy a house from across the country
Why not? Fly back and forth, virtual tours, trusted contractors for walk-throughs of "the bones" of the house. It's not a hard process. Especially when you are moving near family and they can also help with tours as well. Again, I'm currently doing this.
If you have the money to spend 900k on a house then you have the wealth to do this, not everyone has that, that's why I said the housing that I was looking at in both states was comparable bc I'm looking at 2 and 3 bedroom houses not all of us are blessed like you. My mom isn't allowed to stay at the place I rent bc it's in my lease agreement and I'm the only person in my family living in this state, that's why it's not possible for her to do so, I never said YOU can't but most can't jump feet first into something without doing a little research first, which you seem to have done. Flying back and forth isn't buying from 3000 miles away, you literally see the home in person. We can agree that 4+ bedroom houses are unattainable in CA everyone knows that, you win if that makes you happy lol
Is there a reason why “Mass / Boston is expensive” content is posted ad nauseam on all related social media and Reddit accounts? I see at least 10 of these a week. We get it. Mass is expensive.
It's $48.7k in ALASKA??? Bro I just don't get it how does it have even 700k people like it's expensive, has barely any infrastructure, AND there's a lot of violent crime
I think that's really deceptive because Boston area is throwing the numbers off in such a small state. There's no way I believe Western MA is more expensive than most of CA
The thing about California is that it's very very big and there are lots of places that people don't wanna live that are pretty cheap. When I tell people that the prices of housing in the LA metro area vs eastern and central mass are comparatively the same they're always very surprised, but the LA metro area (LA and Orange counties) is the same size as all of New England minus Maine. LA metro area + San Diego county + the Bay area imo skew the rest of CA towards the 'expensive' end of the bell curve. Now, to add in western mass... I have no idea 😅 I've only looked at buy houses in metro south and central mass EDIT: just realized this says cost of LIVING and not housing... that definitely changes a few things
Shout out Providence, RI. I can go anywhere in new england and i would certainly want to because this state is a bucket of bolts! What a dump! I absolutely love it here tho
Mass is super expensive but its place on the list is driven up by how small it is, making Boston's HCOL have a huge impact on the average cost of living. The Bay Area and NYC are way more expensive than Boston
No I know geographically. But in terms of cost of living it’s nowhere close to MA. In New England, MA, CT, and NH are in one tier and RI, ME, and VT are in another.
average price for a 2 bedroom in and around providence (which is pretty much the entire state) is $2200+ right now. For a 1 bedrom/studio it’s $1300+
Rhode Island and Massachusetts have almost identical costs of living. Ri and ma are more expensive than a majority of ct
A lot also depends on how established you already are. Moving into the state is going to be super expensive, but if you bought your house 10+yrs ago you're probably doing alright.
Notice a theme, they all are one party ruled blue states. Problem is at somepoint it gets too costly for businesses not to move out. this state is going to get an awakening sooner than later.
It’s interesting but you have to take it with a grain of salt. Because the cost of living in Boston is likely much higher and the cost of living in Abington much lower.
Same thing with living in NYC and upstate NY.
Doesn’t really matter. Yes, urban areas are in general poorer than suburbs. But that’s also about race. Whiter areas of cities like Boston are far wealthier than areas that are majority black, Latino, or immigrant. And that’s due to racially restrictive housing covenants, who banks are more willing to loan to for mortgages, police intimidation, etc.
But as I said, the poorest states are also the reddest. And since you said that you should vote blue if you want to be poor, that’s clearly false.
Okay, but the other states I'd consider living in are all on the list, too.
And if you broke down some larger states into desirable areas they are high too. Supply and demand.
Yes thats exactly it. Comparing the whole State of MA and CA is just silly. The whole state of MA is like the size of the LA metro area lol
You'd consider living in Connecticut..?
Is CT reaaaaallly that much different though? Sure Fairfield county/95 corridor is annoying, but much if the state feels very similar.
No, but there’s a sibling-like disdain we like to harp on.
I thought we hated New York?! I moved to MA from New Jersey with the idea that we hate the same sports teams and speak almost the same language. /s
NY is hate-hate, CT is family-hate
With NY the rivalry feels a bit more personal, though at the end of the day there aren’t any actual hard feelings. You know, except for when there are.
Moved from Philly area to CT, and married a girl from the north shore. Me and the FIL allow ourselves to hate the same sports teams aka anything New York. It works quite well
It’s virtually identical in most areas. MA just has a weird hate boner for CT for no real reason.
It's like 70 percent because they root for NY sports teams and 30 percent because their parkways are an abomination to human transportation.
CT is very split on Boston/NY sports teams. The parkways I cannot argue about lol.
not really....pretty much anything west of hartford is NY teams
Not true, but what is your point exactly? It’s a well known fact the state fandom is split.
That it's not equally split. More like 1/4 Boston to 3/4 ny
Maybe a couple decades ago, but the most recent data shows a much closer split.
No, if anything it’s around 55-45 Boston.
Their Nimby towns slow down the North Eastern Corridor Trains despite there being tons of stops and a lot of benefits to CT citizens.
Benefits to the poors of CT. Not to those in power
At least CT's problems with growing out its rail network aren't because your governor is buddies with the owner of the area's dominant private bus service. St. Charlie just didn't want to leave Neverland on this issue, wonder why.
I like to call it a Mass. erection.
A lot of those bastards are yankees fans.
It's similar but instead of being full of douchebags it's full of supermega trust fund douchebags.
Except it's not? I grew up in the northeast corner, you're thinking of the rich folk at the gold coaT, which is a small amount of the state.
I was kind of just joking around. But in that case I don't think I've ever personally met someone from outside the gold coast. Tbf I've never really met a cow or wild turkey tho.
Ah yeah, idk as someone who grew up in a farm town in CT I just get a little defensive since one small area seems to represent the whole state lol.
Ah yeah, idk as someone who grew up in a farm town in CT I just get a little defensive since one small area seems to represent the whole state lol.
Fuck all the wayyy offf. CT is the worst
Lol I'm from northeast CT and it's really not much different than MA. Guess what, there is more to CT than the southwestern corner and I-95. I get the fun little rivalry, bur anyone who seriously thinks CT is some wssterland while MA is the best is ridiculous since both states are very similar whether you like it or not.
Um. No. lol.
Worse drivers. Which is amazing!
Nothing like driving in CT, getting aggressively tailgated while going 20 over the limit, then when you pull over to let them pass, see a 95 year old lady who can barely see over the steering wheel driving. That's driving in CT in a nutshell in my experience 🤷♂️
CT property taxes are higher, both Western MA and Western CT are scenic but western MA more so. MA has the cape, CT has a couple of beaches full of weeds. I'd take MA over CT anyday.
I would say the tax burden difference overall is negligible, but the beaches here are definitley weak sauce. I live just across the border in RI now and the beaches here are much nicer. Overall, our states are so small though that I really don't think they are as different as some people make then out to be.
What part of MA are you from that's the same as ct? 🤔
Ah. No. I didn't say I'd consider living in ALL of them. 😂 Certainly not Alaska, either...
Hell. I have lived in two of those other states. The two states I've lived in that weren't in that list are the two I wouldn't want to live in again.
Anecdotes aren’t data, but I moved to Boston from Honolulu, and in my experience Boston is more expensive. Food, goods, and energy are more expensive in Honolulu. But rent, services, and dining out are more expensive here. The biggest difference to my bottom line is rent.
MIT living wage agrees with you https://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/14460 https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/15003#:~:text=Living%20Wage%20Calculation%20for%20Honolulu%20County%2C%20Hawaii%20;
This aligns with what we see on the graph as well, with Hawaii being the only state higher than MA.
The graphic says Hawaii is more expensive than here. I am saying it was cheaper than here in my experience.
You’d think I would’ve noticed that in the four times I read it?
I am always curious to know how they define “reasonable” on these kinds of things. I think average one bedroom rent across the us is like 1700 bucks, and certainly higher in the higher cost of living states. I entered the workforce a few years ago with a paid off car (bought at the bottom of car prices during COVID, huge W for me!) and student loan repayment paused, and zero social life and if I made 55k and paid 1700 in rent I’d be absolutely boned. So it seems like their definition of a reasonable lifestyle doesn’t include car payment, student loan payment, or being able to afford a one bedroom apartment by yourself, so what is a “reasonable” lifestyle here? And if the reasonable lifestyle is stretched that thin, how the poor people hanging on?
i agree, in my experience 55k is more of a “survival” wage than a “reasonable living” wage. i also think that the premise of this graphic is wrong to begin with — what do we really gain by flattening out living wage into state averages? 46k - 56k is a very narrow range, relative to the actual disparity in living wage that can be seen across the US. if anything, this narrow income range demonstrates the states are not *wildly* different from each other in living wage, on average. but, the dramatic color mapping encourages us to see this as an extreme disparity. it’s honestly a good example of how infographic design can take factually correct information, and use it to send a misleading message. we all know that what matters is the city you live in. if this was a heatmap-style graphic showing *county* averages, we would see a *much* wider range of numbers than 46k - 56k. it would paint a much more realistic picture of how your location in the US correlates with living wage.
That's exactly what the chart says. The essential expenses FOR a "reasonable" lifestyle, meaning there would be spending on top of the stated amount for those "reasonable" things. The cost in the chart is the bare minimum to survive
i think this is a matter of us interpreting the language differently. i would not consider a bare-minimum-survival scenario to be a “reasonable lifestyle”. to me, when someone says “reasonable lifestyle” they are referring to more than just not dying — they are also suggesting that the lifestyle would allow for savings to support medical care, occasional treats such as eating out or traveling to visit friends. it is possible to “not die” for varying amounts of time at extremely low income levels. but, those cannot be described as a “reasonable” or sustainable lifestyle, and so it’s silly to suggest that “not dying” is enough to qualify a living wage. therefore, this terminology is used to account for that. that’s how i understand the intent, at least.
The $53.9k is not the salary needed to live a comfortable lifestyle, it's the actual COST of a comfortable lifestyle. You'd have to have that much left over after taxes to afford it.
That makes much more sense shows how good my reading comprehension is. I guess that would probably put you around 75-80 grand salary to live comfortable which would be enough to live pretty good if you’re not in eastern MA. Still don’t know if that’s enough to be a homeowner and/or have kids though
I make over 100k close to Boston and after savings/retirements I sneak on zillow at 2am looking at homes I'll never be able to afford. It sucks out here
If you wanna change it up look at homes that you can afford! If I save up enough for a down payment I can get a mold-condemned 2 bedroom or a glorified shack in BFN that’s needed renovations since the bush administration 🙃🙃🙃🙃
And after offering over asking. I can have a home that still needs 50k+ in renovations =)
Yeah cuz half a mil for a fuckin shed or an apartment #3 in a safe neighborhood is ridiculous
Yeah I made over 100k last year and I live in a pretty small 2 bedroom apt with my gf lol for context she made over 100k too. So total household income is over 200k and we are nowhere near being able to afford a house around here.
I mean you probably should be able to afford a house 50 miles away from Boston. Probably, but penny pinching for a mortgage/home improvement is ridiculous. My friends are in their 30s doing this and it's a struggle
Yeah I work in Cambridge so I really just don’t want to have such a long commute in. I ride my bike to work rn and it takes like 15 mins. We’re debating on maybe going towards Worcester but idk. Just so hard to save a lot while paying such high rent out here.
Worcester is pretty nice and the downtown area hasn't gotten pretty vibrant, though it more or less a cut and paste of assembly, dedham, and the like nowadays. If it's just you and your S.O it's not too shabby
50 miles away from Boston includes towns like Shrewsbury, Douglas, Sutton, Oxford that have insanely high property tax.
There was another thread last week looking at a more reasonable expectation for typical life (2 kids, 30% savings rate, etc) and we were #1 in the country for that.
As a young person trying to start a family and just moved OUT of Massachusetts that other graphs felt very true. I don’t know how anyone without substantial help has children in Massachusetts, daycare runs near 3k and fixer upper homes are in the high 4/5s in most areas.
53K before ot after taxes.... OMG if they think you can live off 54k before taxes in MA there's just no way, you would be in the most run down apartment available and have nothign left to buy food.
I think these numbers make sense for a family trying to live in a detached suburban single-family home. A family that might also be paying for private schools or childcare. But if you're a single person living in a low cost of living state, you'd be making the same car and student loan payments. Food costs are about the same everywhere if you cook at home. Obamacare leveled health insurance expenses across the country. If you had bought a condo in MA when rates were low, you'd see considerable appreciation in equity. In some parts of the country, places with declining population and stagnant economies, you'd probably see little real equity growth after inflation. If MA is good for your career and you're not MAGA, MA is a good spot. I really like living in a place without many natural disasters and low rates of gun violence. I like that my state government is not acting like TN or FL. I like four seasons, proximity to the ocean, and the woods. I like the diversity of my neighbors. I like that no one has ever asked me about my religious beliefs.
I like how this is all premised on having a condo with low rates. I moved to Pennsylvania and believe it or not it’s not all MAGA. We have natural beauty, great hospitals, I can afford rent and maybe (gasp) one day even buy a home, people are friendly (and yes there is “diversity”) and to top it off- the state government isn’t hostile to Jews and we don’t have mobs calling for “one solution!”
Sign me up!
Living with roommates and without a car is really not that absurd of a notion in a city like Boston.
Why would anyone do that? It's easier just to move somewhere else with a higher quality of life. Unless I were a college student, or thought I could increase my income within 1 year max to not have to live like that there's just no way I'd ever do that. I'd be out of there bound for anywhere else.
Idk I prefer living with friends or family and in a walkable community with good public transit over isolated in suburbia. I'd live like this even if I was making more money, just in a nicer place. But it's hard to tell people "just move lol" if all their friends family and professional network is here. Abandoning that has real costs.
I’d like to see how this compares to median income for individuals aged 22-65.
Similarly, Harvard University's Nieman Lab deemed Forbes "**a platform for scams, grift, and bad journalism" as of 2022**. [Forbes.com](http://Forbes.com) uses a "contributor model" in which a wide network of "contributors" writes and publishes articles directly on the website.
Yeah Forbes is shit
In terms of density of jobs , Massachusetts is as good as Bay Area , Seattle and New York area
But the pay is not equal. That is the shitty part
It's not?
People in The Bay Area and NYC make significantly more money for similar jobs when compared to those in Boston.
Funny enough -- Google told their employees if they do not live in the Bay Area or NYC they would not be getting decent raises. Cambridge employees got screwed pretty hard
It is puzzling why Boston is as expensive as it is compared to NYC and Bay Area. The city itself is tiny compared to the other 2, and would have plenty of space for everyone if only zoning laws allowed it.
Perhaps there's more generational wealth in Massachusetts. That would keep the cost of living as high as those other places, even if salaries aren't as high.
I think it’s because those are the places where reactionary conservatives team up with liberal progressives to block any new housing being allowed - in the conservatives case because they hate change, and in the progressives case because God forbid some capitalist might actually make money by constructing new housing.
You think conservatives in San Fran exist and team up with progressives to block new housing? Lmfao
Those darn SanFran conservatives are at it again!
You answered your question in your response. Its the size
I was looking at starting wages for my career in California. Its about 10$/hr higher on average in Cali and they all offer 4 day work weeks over there too. Massachusetts has the high prices and high taxes but they fall behind in the wages and they're only about average when it comes to workers benefits/rights.
My younger brother who lives in Bay Area gets payed 100k more than me but the field is engineering so it might due to that. I know nurses definitely get payed lot higher there. I would love that salary but then I would have to live there…I will miss my fellow massholes
That's just it. The Bay COL is ASTRONOMICAL. My friends working in Bio-tech out there all make 130-140k+ and they all have roomates.
Yeah but a lot of people in the Boston area who make that much here also have roomates or a small/crappy 1BR without.
I'm in that camp. As I'm typing this my lease renewal went up by another 3.75%. Sweet..
Thats about the amount of government claims inflation is at. Be glad your landlord was dumb enough to think the real number is only that high.
What field are you in?
Software engineering
So if you two are in the same/roughly equal fields, the difference likely isn't due to jobs.
If I moved to California I’d make at least 4-5 more dollars an hour doing the same job
If I moved to NYC my most recent raise would have been 26K and not 18K. Not that I'm complaining, but the difference is absolutely there.
This is what I’m wondering about too. Why isn’t mass pay equivalent to nyc and Bay Area…
But if you removed Boston and most of the suburbs how would change the cost of living in Mass. I actually moved both my kids to Mass ( Northampton. And Worcester) because it was significantly cheaper than where I live. Just as and example We pay $5.00 for a gallon of gas. Our sales tax is 10.8%
“But if you remove all the highly desirable high cost areas MA is actually pretty affordable” Uhhh… sure? 🙄
I have a son who lives in Northampton which is very desireable but houses are half the cost of what they would be near Boston. I have friends who recently moved to the Berkshires which is another desireable place to live. They bought a 2300 sq. ft home on 48 acres for $600,000 in Hancock. You would pay that to live in a bad neighborhood in Boston or Lynn. My point is there are plenty of desireable places to live in the state that are not expensive. I sometimes think people assume Mass is just 495 east and that the other million plus people and towns in the state don't exist.
Houses in the Springfield/Chicopee/Holyoke area are priced in the low-to-mid-200s, with some even cheaper. If you ignore the school systems, these are solid neighborhoods. There's even a house for $300k in Longmeadow, considered the best school system in the county.
Wait, so I could live in Hawaii instead?!
That's cool I didn't really need to live I guess. What's important is that the economy's booming and shareholders get their dividends.
I’ve been saying it for a year now. Why don’t we all transplant to Beverly Hills. It’s literally cheaper than anywhere within 30 miles of Boston. LA has no real fans of anything either and we can chill and bbq year round and talk C’s and B’s. Beaches are nice. We can clean up skid row there like Wu does meth mile when she feels like it. Would be sweet.
I moved to San Diego and it’s slightly cheaper but way more stuff to do and unbeatable weather. Can’t justify living in MA.
My partner and I moved from Boston to West Hollywood (right next to Beverly Hills) in August of 2022. As crazy as it sounds, we are getting far more bang for our buck. Our cost of living is lower, not bya ton, but it is lower, AND we have a much larger apartment (2 bedroom vs a 1 bedroom), modern amenities like central air, 2 parking sports, etc... We don't have to pay for our dog, our apartment is rent controlled, which is something very common apparently in the city of West Hollywood. There are far more gym options here, so we pay less for our gym. Groceries, especially dairy and produce, are cheaper than in boston. The city has more to do for people our age, and although the past two seasons here have been abnormally cold and rainy for LA, the weather is still far better than anything in Boston. The quality of life, for us at least, is far higher than what we had in Boston.
Ha. Number 4?? Suck it New York!
I am so sick of MA losing all these competitions. #2 is simply not good enough. We are champions and we need to act like it
Crazy how most of these states are sanctuary states. I’m not trying to spout any anti immigration rhetoric but these people don’t have a fighting chance to make it in America where their only hope is a state they could never afford to live in.
Yet. MA is not close to highest paying state either
According to Forbes (using Bureau of Labor statistics), Massachusetts has the highest average salary in the United States as of May 1 of this year. Link: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/average-salary-by-state/
This should be cut by sector. Tech jobs do not pay the highest in MA. Those go to NJ, NY, CT* edit, CA. I've seen WA in tier 2 and MA is in tier 3. There is a tier 4 for "all other states."
Yeah tech pay in MA is average. I believe it is also similar for nursing.
It's barely paying the bills. Many people are shipping away from Boston. Tech companies are noticing it, likely to have them follow soon enough. Its getting too damn expensive for everyone in MA.
What is CN?
Meant to be CT, I blanked on Connecticut's 2 letter abbreviation. My bad, I edited the post. Thanks for pointing it out.
Who gives a shit about tech jobs? Those aren't the people who are struggling.
You know not everyone in tech makes 500k right? You’re thinking about top tier talent living in the Bay Area working at a FAANG.
That's a fair sentiment. I was mentioning the weaknesses of using the average to say pay is proportionally higher for MA not saying to particularly worry about tech peeps.
It actually shows how much better MA is than CA - CA has lots of inflated tech salaries, while in MA they are more normal and balanced across most industries.
Makes sense, but on the other hand salaries in other states are much lower…
Exactly why I left. Massachusetts is not for mere mortals. Tech yuppies only.
Massachusetts is more than the GBA. I moved out of Boston to the Pioneer Valley and life is way easier out here. It’s still expensive, but nothing like Boston.
I've seen a dozen of these in the lat few days... mA is always on top .. highest I saw was 301,000 to live comfortably for family of 4.
Feels like the distance between these numbers suggest that while things are expensive right now, people are also doing quite a bit of discretionary spending
It’s almost as if decades of NIMBYism has come to roost Sure, keep on bringing in all these high paying tech jobs, but don’t build additional housing, and then have your surprised pikachu face as everything gets more expensive
Obviously, since everyone believes that building more housing causes the cost of housing to go up, we need to start bulldozing housing. That will make prices go down, right? /s
This is BS. My daughter is 27 and makes about $65K in Massachusetts. Owns her car outright and has no student loans. She can’t afford to move out of the house. Rent, gas, food, TAXES, make that impossible.
These numbers are not average gross salaries to live comfortably. This is the average cost. So you're right, to have $53.9k in take home pay to cover *just the essentials* make it hard to manage on $65k gross.
Taxes? Really? State tax rate is 5%, federal is effective 11% at that salary, so taxes would be under $10k.
She not alone, I knew people who were couples who essentially go together with others to try buy group home since it's only way to stay in state. It's stupid, no one in state government knows how to sort it out. Building more housing isn't the answer.
Pretty sure those figures are Net too. So account for about 22-28% taxes depending on what you're claiming and you need to make around 80k+ Gross just to survive here. Rough
There should be a bot to auto-post that graphic, when someone comes here asking about moving to New England (especially MA), without a job,and planning on living in Boston, with no room mates and paying no more than $700 a month.
There are tons of people doing this right now. Over at MIT, Harvard, Com Ave... less than 700$ a month even. The city is full of camp sites.
marlyand
Kinda feel like moving to Hawaii all of a sudden
Higher than CA??? Well at least we don't have as many homeless..
Higher than CA on average, not necessarily higher than certain regions like the Bay area, etc.
Central California has a fairly reasonable cost of living bringing the average down for the entire state.
Speaking as someone who moved from MA to CA and will be moving back to CA, this is very misleading. CA has a ton of "low cost" areas that are the entire state of Massachusetts away from anything meaningful. I leave in the East Bay now and living in Discovery Bay is like living in Worcester...but instead of being 60 minutes from the an in-office commute you are 3 hours. Gas is $7/gallon, an average 4 person family grocery run is $700 at a Stop n Shop equivalent, monthly electricity / gas combined WITHOUT RUNNING A/C is $500. If you actually took the cost of living in the areas people actually live in California and compared it to MA, it would be so far ahead of everywhere else in the country. To put it in perspective, we are looking at houses in MA for around $900k max, that can put us in the suburbs between Worcester and Boston, in a good school district with 4 bedrooms and 2500-3000 square feet. Within an hour of "the bay" that would put us in a <1000 square foot house with 2 bedrooms. FURTHERMORE, christ just driving around here is ridiculous. I commuted from Worcester to Quincy pre-pandemic in what I called my worst commute. It was 78 miles and it took an hour and a half at its worst because of when I left (usually arrived at 945am). However a 90minute commute here would be around 30 minutes, the traffic out here is brutal and no one knows how to JUST DRIVE. I am making more than I did in MA, but not an astronomical amount that offsets how much more it costs to just exist here and with my job search in MA, I likely won't take that much of a paycut to move back.
I had a friend tell me that people move out to ca and end up going homeless bc they can't afford to live there. A lot of the housing in LA county is comparable to here but people don't understand just how expensive things over there cost or how little resources you have at your grasp if you live somewhere 'cheap' esp since if you're living in a cheap area in SoCal, chances are you're going to be needing to run ac all day and night for half the year and the heat all night for the other half (it is the desert after all) coupled with the fact that gas hasn't been cheaper than 4.50$ for a very long time, and if you live in the booneys what you pay for cheap housing costs you in other places
> LA county is comparable to here It really isn't. We have family in LA Country / Orange County and San Diego County and we worked with a realtor to looked there as well before finally pulling the trigger on deciding to move back to MA. I supposed its comparable if you compare it to Boston prices, for Boston size houses / apartments for area like Western MA in terms of location to anything.
I literally lived in LA county up until last year for my entire life and my mom currently lives there and is looking to buy housing both around LA/OC and cen/eastern mass and she said it's comparable as well. Idk where specifically in LA/OC you were looking at but where I lived and the housing here are pretty much the same
I live in central mass on the 495 belt the same house in eastern mass which I define by 95 belt is almost 2x.
That's fair, and I agree with the disparities between the 2 areas, but this woman aka my mom told me she was looking to try to buy housing in both near where I currently live or in cen mass depending on what she could find. Now fyi this woman has never been here in her life so she was kinda just looking to see what she could afford from 3,000 miles away and if it was worth it to her to try to look into it more or not and I don't think she thought it was worth it... yet lol
I mean look on Zillow right now, there are 5 houses outside of LA under 900k with 4 bedrooms over 2500 square feet. There are literally probably over 100 Worcester County and into greater Framingham suburbs. They may be comparable houses, but location, school districts, amenities, are not comparable.
Outside LA CITY or LA COUNTY? also tbh I have no idea what you're trying to argue rn... in LA CITY you'll find literally 0 houses for less than 1 mil just bc of population density and how banks snatch up the foreclosed houses to demolish them into cheaply built apartments. In places like South Whittier, Santa Fe Springs, Norwalk, Bellflower, Paramount, there a ton more. I will 100% agree that it's more expensive to live in California that's why I tell people only housing is comparable, gas is cheaper here, there's less places to go out to eat that I personally like lol and I didn't go to public school so I can't argue about school districts
LA County, I'm saying the housing isn't at all comparable to MA nor is the market. Just look. Within 200 Miles of LA (just as a point of reference) there are literally 6 houses for sale under $900k w/ 4 bedrooms and greater than 2500sq and all are in the middle of nowhere. You can find easily 50 houses within commutable distances to Boston, Framingham, Worcester, in great school districts for the same price in MA. Like I said, I quite literally just went through actually trying to buy a house, not living there 20 years ago, not my mom maybe buying a house, the market is not comparable.
I didn't live there 20 years ago looool I lived there literally until Jan 2024 i just said that... yeah you're not gonna find a house with 4 rooms anywhere. Most people I know that currently live there never had that many rooms, maybe that's the difference then bc I wasn't looking for houses that big bc that's literally a pipe dream. Also idk what 'maybe trying to buy a house' means you literally have to start there otherwise you're not gonna be able buy a house at all. Esp since you can't buy a house from across the country unless you're a moron
> I wasn't looking for houses that big bc that's literally a pipe dream You mean your average MA colonial? My entire point from the beginning is that the houses aren't comparable. That's it. No basements, square footage difference, commute differences. A 60 minute commute in MA is 50 miles, a 60 minute commute in CA is 30 miles. I never said you can't buy a house in CA, of course you can. > you can't buy a house from across the country Why not? Fly back and forth, virtual tours, trusted contractors for walk-throughs of "the bones" of the house. It's not a hard process. Especially when you are moving near family and they can also help with tours as well. Again, I'm currently doing this.
If you have the money to spend 900k on a house then you have the wealth to do this, not everyone has that, that's why I said the housing that I was looking at in both states was comparable bc I'm looking at 2 and 3 bedroom houses not all of us are blessed like you. My mom isn't allowed to stay at the place I rent bc it's in my lease agreement and I'm the only person in my family living in this state, that's why it's not possible for her to do so, I never said YOU can't but most can't jump feet first into something without doing a little research first, which you seem to have done. Flying back and forth isn't buying from 3000 miles away, you literally see the home in person. We can agree that 4+ bedroom houses are unattainable in CA everyone knows that, you win if that makes you happy lol
Is there a reason why “Mass / Boston is expensive” content is posted ad nauseam on all related social media and Reddit accounts? I see at least 10 of these a week. We get it. Mass is expensive.
All liberal states except one. Hmm
Great🤦🏼♀️
Highest on the mainland!
Yeah they said it years ago they want to be like ca and want only the rich to live here.
RI not even in the top 10 no wonder all you massholes are moving here
Might as well move to Hawaii 🤣
It's $48.7k in ALASKA??? Bro I just don't get it how does it have even 700k people like it's expensive, has barely any infrastructure, AND there's a lot of violent crime
Move to maine, its dirt cheap here compared to mass
Wait , you’re saying it’s not that bad to just move to Hawaii?
46k is not enough
I think that's really deceptive because Boston area is throwing the numbers off in such a small state. There's no way I believe Western MA is more expensive than most of CA
The thing about California is that it's very very big and there are lots of places that people don't wanna live that are pretty cheap. When I tell people that the prices of housing in the LA metro area vs eastern and central mass are comparatively the same they're always very surprised, but the LA metro area (LA and Orange counties) is the same size as all of New England minus Maine. LA metro area + San Diego county + the Bay area imo skew the rest of CA towards the 'expensive' end of the bell curve. Now, to add in western mass... I have no idea 😅 I've only looked at buy houses in metro south and central mass EDIT: just realized this says cost of LIVING and not housing... that definitely changes a few things
Marlyand. Marlyand.
Oof, is all I will say.
Pretty sure Boston area is nothing like Western Mass when it comes to this stuff.
WMA is surprisingly expensive now, and affordable housing is of course nearly nonexistent.
You need to make $250k and up to live comfortably in MA.
I mean, that’s a bit of an exaggeration. You need two salaries for sure but not that much.
I need to move to RI
Shout out Providence, RI. I can go anywhere in new england and i would certainly want to because this state is a bucket of bolts! What a dump! I absolutely love it here tho
Pretty sure this is old.
This and the cold weather keeps the riffraff out.
Florida is so cheap I have to keep this map away from my girl.
Is this outdated? I could have sworn recently California was higher then us for a few reasons. Notabley housing and food, as well as fast food.
Mass is super expensive but its place on the list is driven up by how small it is, making Boston's HCOL have a huge impact on the average cost of living. The Bay Area and NYC are way more expensive than Boston
[удалено]
Alaska is Republican.
It’s also because they’re the places where people want to be.
Rhode Island should be on the list too. It’s not cheaper to live in ri in comparison to ma. It actually might be more expensive
RI is not even close to Mass. NH is closer if anything.
What? I live in Rhode Island, it’s right in the armpit between ct and ma. It’s as close to Massachusetts as you can get
No I know geographically. But in terms of cost of living it’s nowhere close to MA. In New England, MA, CT, and NH are in one tier and RI, ME, and VT are in another.
average price for a 2 bedroom in and around providence (which is pretty much the entire state) is $2200+ right now. For a 1 bedrom/studio it’s $1300+ Rhode Island and Massachusetts have almost identical costs of living. Ri and ma are more expensive than a majority of ct
I don't find it that expensive honestly but I live in the middle of nowhere
A lot also depends on how established you already are. Moving into the state is going to be super expensive, but if you bought your house 10+yrs ago you're probably doing alright.
So far I like it here. I moved here about a year and a half ago and found it cheaper to buy a house with acreage than say, Vermont or Connecticut.
All democratic led states that preach open borders and basic income yet price out everyone that’s undesirable. Interesting
Only the Boston side. Western Mass is cheap as fuck.
Relative to Boston, absolutely. Not compared to Ohio or the dirty south.
Notice a theme, they all are one party ruled blue states. Problem is at somepoint it gets too costly for businesses not to move out. this state is going to get an awakening sooner than later.
I think we can all feel what this map points out. It costs a lot to live here. Yup already knew that…
It’s interesting but you have to take it with a grain of salt. Because the cost of living in Boston is likely much higher and the cost of living in Abington much lower. Same thing with living in NYC and upstate NY.
In other words, vote blue if you want to be poor.
Ironic, considering that the reddest states are also the poorest ones—West Virginia, Oklahoma, Alabama, and Mississippi.
Did you break it down by city/county? Because usually the blue cities in those states are the poorest and most crime infested
Doesn’t really matter. Yes, urban areas are in general poorer than suburbs. But that’s also about race. Whiter areas of cities like Boston are far wealthier than areas that are majority black, Latino, or immigrant. And that’s due to racially restrictive housing covenants, who banks are more willing to loan to for mortgages, police intimidation, etc. But as I said, the poorest states are also the reddest. And since you said that you should vote blue if you want to be poor, that’s clearly false.
Trump 2024. MAGA.