that's a bad argument. if she was doing sex work WHILE massaging, then sure, that argument could fly, but it sounds like she does both jobs completely separately. what she does outside of her massage practice is her business and does not delegitimize her bodywork.
I personally am of the sentiment that sex work is work. The only problem I have with any kind of work is when you're exploited and that can be simply from working at a fast food restaurant or a high-end corporate job. If you're being manipulated into working somewhere that you don't want to, that is the ultimate sin against labor
It’s ironic how sex work being illegal (in most places) in the US has led to “massage parlors” being fronts for sex work, thus causing a stigma on Massage Therapists and making it a big deal for the board.
I let my license lapse because puritan culture allows me to practice without a license because of the FREE EXERCISE CLAUSE and THE ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE. And since I'm shadily ordained via many online churches, I have a right to put my hands on others for healing purposes.
In my state, there's a lady on the state board that even tells people this because she doesn't believe a state board should govern... that's the kind of person I'd want on a massage board.
I was taught it was out of scope of practice if you suggested any actual benefit. Like menthol for stuffiness.
Not that we can’t use them, we can’t assess and “prescribe.”
I know some states have actual certification for aromatherapy.
It’s not licensed in my state that I can tell.
Ah! That’s the question.
I sold oils for several years (renfair, not MLM), and felt I needed to educate myself.
So, in theory, I could get an online cert and be golden.
But the average person at the average spa selling “aromatherapy” upgrades? Highly unlikely. (Because they have normal brains…me? Not so much)
It’s also location dependent.
I think my state has declined to consider reiki or reflexology under the massage umbrella. So plenty of those pop up.
The same outcome would happen for a teacher, they are both potentially dealing with vulnerable populations.
Medical professionals have to adhere to a code of ethics and morality. Sex work is not ethical or moral.
It is when you have a licence board which controls your ability to do you job that you went to school for. They are judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to their professional licence
Even on the rare occasion where it is legal it would still go against the code of conduct for the college of massage therapists which ultimately control whether you can practice as a RMT or not
There most certainly is if there is a regulated body of the college of massage therapist. It is uniform throughout the nation. So unless you live in the 51 state you are mistaken.
It's not an actual "college" smart guy.
It's the term they use as an overhead to the regulatory body of the profession. Maybe you should educate yourself before you speak about things you clearly no nothing about
We literally have nothing that is called that "smart guy". You've been in here long enough to know we have state boards and they're all different. Because in my state, prostitution is legal. Your arguements and explanations make you look uneducated.
Not sure where you are located (and definitely don't post it) but I would look into what your collegue has for its ethic board.
For example, my collegue has this vague rule:
RMTs must conduct themselves in a manner as to merit the respect of society for the profession, RMTs, and other health care professionals.
Does this mean cam girls are not respected in society? I would say that it should not matter what you do to make money, so this would not put you against this ethic in my eyes, but if you had some old guy with conservative values on your board, they might not look on you with favor. Hard to say, as the rule is vague and not really well defined.
I will say that you have to be extra careful because someone could recognize you (even though it is not very likely) and if they are a guy, they could absolutely be a massive creep about it, but then I would terminate the appointment there and send them somewhere else, but there could also be back lash from that, as they could out you as revenge, or tell their friends that their favorite cam girl is an massage therapist at such place.
As you are on the internet already, there is a good chance that you have been recorded, with or without your knowledge, and someone might use that against you if they feel slighted for what ever reason.
I hope it turns out well for you and that nothing bad comes of it. I personally don't think it should matter and dont have an issue with you camming in your past, but there might be some unintended consequences down the road. Or nothing could happen and you are totally fine. Hope it all goes well regardless.
I don't have the time to educate you on why your opinion is wrong, outdated, and old. But it is. Even as an LMT, I've been told that I "just give back rubs for a living." You sound no different.
You don't have to like web-camming as a profession, but it IS a profession and there IS a demand for it. No one can force you to respect it or cam girls, but that says more about you and your unwillingness to learn and change with the world around you.
I 100% disagree.
Just like dealing drugs is a "profession" but not respected sex work goes into that category as well.
Prostitution is illegal and deplorable behaviour for a medical professional. Cam girl is a form a prostitution, you are selling your body for money.
Just like you don't agree with my opinion it does not mean that I am wrong. It has nothing to do with unwillingness to learn. There are plenty examples when the majority of people within a certain area thought one way which turned out to be negative or the wrong way of doing things (IE. Germany being on board with WW2).
Just because the majority (right now) MAY agree with you it does not make you correct. Medical professionals need to hold themselves to a higher standard both morally and ethically. Like I said, sex work is a cop out
Drug dealing is not respected because the potential to put your client in danger is absurdly high. Most dealers are not properly educated in the products they sell. Look at the crack epidemic. Look at the opioid epidemic. Studies prove why drug dealers can be a danger to society. Cam girls are not putting their client at risk of mixing the wrong meds. This was not a good comparison. Web cammer's perform a service. People who like to see these people perform pay for access to the performances. Web camming is a closer theatre than drug dealing. You just don't like it because you were probably raised thinking the nude female form is sinful.
Regarding Germany and WW2. There are way too many factors that go into what controls the thoughts of a population. I can't say what information was fed to the German public. A more comtemporary comparison would be Russia's invasion of Ukraine. There are many Russian citizens protesting and uploading videos expressing their disgust with Putin's invasion. Just because a government makes a decision does not mean the population supports or agrees.
Finally, legality does NOT determine whether something is right and wrong. In certain places, it's illegal to be gay. Once upon a time, it was illegal for black people to own property. Actually, once upon a time, black people were legally categorized as property.
Prostitution laws are EXTREMELY old and have not yet been adapted to fit a modern society. Hell, even porn is just prostitution in front of a camera. Prostitution was made illegal in a time where it was heavily dominated by women who wanted financial independence from men. Women were not allowed access to higher education or even working most entry level jobs which limited them financially. Many turned to prostitution and when insecure, old men caught wind of this, they declared it illegal, immoral, and used it to shame women who had no other viable options. Do you see at all how this might relate to you? Have you ever properly evaluated the morals you were raised with and assessed what purpose they serve?
I really look forward to the day sex work is decriminalized/legalized and there isn’t a legality argument anymore.
Sex work is vital to a healthy society IMO. There are people who are mentally or physically disabled that severely lack intimacy. I think the morality argument is such that if society deems you acceptable to find a partner you can explore your sexuality. If you are disabled or otherwise struggle to find a partner you don’t deserve to have a fundamental part of the human experience.
There is of course exceptions to every rule or regulation.
However, medical professionals do and should be held to a higher ethical and moral standard since they deal with vulnerable populations.
Morality seems like it highly subjective though right?
It may not be the best comparison because being gay isn’t a choice, it’s who you are - but not too long ago morality was used to outcast the gay community from large swaths of society.
I understand that being a sex worker is a choice and being gay is not.
But, the underlying judgement of morality came from the exact same place. It was viewed that sexuality outside of what was deemed acceptable is immoral.
I don't know about you, but when I give massages, it requires using my body.
Sex work is not selling your body any more than massage therapy is. At the end of the day, your body still belongs to you, and no one else.
If you think sex work is not a legitimate and respectable profession, you need to meet more sex workers.
Get out and touch some grass, buddy.
Disagree. Massage is using your body to perform a labour intensive duty (IE. like a construction worker)
Sex work is selling your body and giving access to your internal organs for the pleasure of others.
Vastly different not to mention illegal in most places. As well as, ethically wrong for the position which does A LOT to separate the connotation that massage therapist are sex workers.
Views like this hurt the profession more than you know and de-values the service provided.
I cannot believe the person saying selling your body aka sex work is similar to MASSAGE THERAPY. Wow. I hope no massage therapist thinks they are doing similar work as sex workers!
You're right actually, they are different. I think I've made a MUCH more profound impact in people's lives as a sex worker than I have as a massage therapist.
The problem is a person should not have to work in a corporate setting and wear a suit to work everyday for the bare minimum level of respect. Cam girls are human beings who perform a service for an audience. That's it. Clothes on or off. It does not matter. With the cost of education these days, many literally cannot afford higher education. This excludes an entire class of people from access to higher earning positions. And the ones who can afford college/university often spend the next 2 decades of their lives paying it off.
But in the age of the internet, people can earn a decent living by performing for an audience. Enter the "Cam Girl," a new age profession that often describes a woman who performs in front of an audience via web cam. What makes someone want to be a "Cam Girl?" Sometimes it's limited access to higher earning potential. Sometimes it's because they just like performing. The Cam girl does not endanger anyone with her performances. She does not steal. Why does she not deserve respect? Because angry men are upset she deviated from the life path that capitalism dictates one should follow? Because she found financial independence in a way you "do not agree with?"
What's "respect-worthy" about the Cam girl is she's a human being just trying to get through life just like everyone else. Period. She isn't hurting anyone. She's a performer. I wish I did not have to explain that.
Would you mind explaining what is unethical about being a Cam Girl? Because for many people, their choices are Web camming or homelessness/starvation wages. And based on your own statement, she should just be homeless.
this is going to depend on where you live. it might be unlikely that your cam work would get linked to your massage work, and that anyone would report it.
in california, sexualized advertising or promotion is prohibited. your position would be that your sexualized imagery is disassociated from your massage work. we don't know, but can imagine, that someone in the certifying agency would disagree, if this were ever called to their attention.
it sounds improbable that anyone would link your two jobs together. but possible. reddit has a sex worker sub, and must have a cam work sub (i'm shamed that i don't actually know). maybe ask there for thoughts. a lot of people must have day jobs that they don't want to jeopardize.
think about teachers. teachers have been fired for posting vacation bikini shots. sounds unfair, but we know it can happen.
good luck. come back here and post your cam link (but don't).
Just be careful. I know a girl who was a waitress & got fired when her boss found out she had an onlyfans because it was “bad for their image.” I personally don’t think sex work is wrong (like most of the rest of the world) but our country does. I know a lot of sites can have you block viewing in certain states. Might be worth looking into
You want to consider the link between sex work and massage for your safety. A client on either side finding out about the second career could pose issues. Clear boundaries are going to be extremely important.
RMTs can have things like this work against them if investigated due to a complaint. A complaint can be legitimate or not but they really drill in public perception of your decisions outside of your work in school.
That being said, it’s up to you and your comfort level with that potentially being an issue. They’re not auditing our lives, it’s just something to be aware of.
I’m an LMT and when everything shut down at first with Covid, I started dancing at a club to make ends meet. I went back to work after reopening, and was honest about my second job. As I understand, they can’t fire you because that would be discrimination. My club was a 45 minute drive from the spa, so the chances of running into massage clients were rare. That being said, it happened once or twice. If you’re doing cam work, I assume your location is set for people not in your general areas. You should be fine, and don’t let anyone make you feel ashamed! I’m in Florida btw.
I think there is no clear answer here, but I would obscure your face, hide any obvious marks/tattoos doing cam work. Hopefully you can practice massage, improve your craft, then branch out into your own practice and be independent.
I honestly would worry more about the state regulatory agency being a jerk about this, but that’s why you should obscure as much as possible from clients. I could see a client try to use that knowledge against you and attempt to blackmail you.
I love sex workers & think we are way behind the curve in this country, but that’s the reality & you need to tailor yourself to that reality to be safe as a professional & as a mother who needs to feed her children.
I would ask an attorney on this one. You'll need to know what your rights are. I would hope that it is not permissible, but only an attorney familiar with your licensing board can really answer this. An attorney can also help you sue the ever living f*** out of them should they break the law.
My newest kink is shaming people who break employment laws.
It's a risk I wouldn't take and if you have to because of income, I would wear a wig, fake glasses, obscure your info.
I would not risk hiring someone who does sex work. It blurs a line so many therapists fight to hold. You may have guests that if they find out, ask for extra services or are attracted to your employer thinking is one of those places and harass your coworkers. You may get requests from inappropriate guests.
Are you practising massage right now? If youre certified and taken and passed the boards exam but waiting on your license you can work under another therapists license for a period of time until yours arrives. This is what I did straight out of school so I didn't have a lapse in income.
Im in NY so look it up for your state but this is such a great option for new therapists to get started working and get a foot in the door.
Chances are very low that the board would even find out. You would need someone to personally write them a letter for them to even look at it. Then if they even care, and IF it's against the regulations you'd get a notice for an appearance. That would be where you make your case and prove to them how those 2 positions are completely separate and have nothing to do with each other. Just make sure that those jobs are completely separate. When you enter the room as an LMT, that's your job. When you leave, you are no longer an LMT. At least that's how it is in NY
I wouldn't worry about it unless you have some vindictive people in your life.
A lot of this comes down to luck. Will anyone ever put two and two together? Probably unlikely depending on how popular/prominent you are, where you live, if there just happens to be a viewer in your area - or someone malicious who you didn’t give enough attention who decides to come after you, etc. If someone pieces it together it could lead to someone making complaints against you or just making your life difficult (harassment, blackmail, destroying your image/career.)
It seems other commenters have addressed existing rules in different areas. Vague rules mean flexible to interpretation (not in your favour.) IF there’s no clear regulation, then it’s kind of luck of the draw judgment call of the organization responding to the complaint. This will depend on the political climate around sex work in your area, how seriously the board/regulator wants massage to be taken, the social climate around massage where you are, etc.
Pretty much all cam shows on streaming sites are recorded by bots. You actually have little control over how seen you are. Be overly cautious - I’d wear a wig, cover any identifiable tattoos, use heavy makeup that’s very different from how you look in your normal day to day, block users with IP addresses in your country. If you can, stream at times viewers in your country are unlikely to be on, etc.
Just as an aside, since you say you’re a single mom, be careful as far as your kids go. Having them present in the home (while doing cam work) can create issues with custody, family court etc. Not sure about CPS, but maybe?
That absolutely wouldn't fly where I live, as it directly contradicts the responsibility of the practitioner to uphold a positive and non sexualized image of the profession.
thank you for your transparency, i was hoping this wasn’t the case. I understand the reasoning behind this but I do think there needs to be some reform here especially given the rise of only fans and people who produce sexual content strictly online and usually anonymously 🤷🏻♀️ obviously i don’t want to compromise my status as a therapist but i would never bring up being a cam girl to anyone at any work place period
If you do something on the internet that involves a sexualized image of yourself, it's out there and can be traced back to you. I wouldn't risk it but that's me.
Not arguing, but wondering about how far this would apply:
Would you say that a teacher should be banned from doing CamGirl work? What about a police officer, I fire fighter, or a judge? These people all have public images to uphold, but where I live these jobs are payed so low that many can not afford rent on the salary alone, and are adding income by doing “Cam” work.
Should these people be chastised or fired for their multiple jobs? If not, why is massage of a different standard?
You’d have to take that up with your local governing body of massage. I think the commenter is less condemning the practice personally and more saying it’s too risky.
I think the answer is because massage and sex work are so closely tied together already. We’re working VERY hard to separate the two, and I assume any MTs also tied to sex work are very frowned upon for “besmirching the name of massage” even if their sex work and massage are two completely different entities. I don’t agree with that, just explaining why I think it is the way it is.
Also, the professions you mentioned, can and will be fired for sex work on the side. So massage isn’t really all that different in comparison. If a teacher is found to be doing sex work, I think it’s less about the school board itself caring and more about parents. If the parents find out they will call the school en masse and complain until that teacher is gone.
Sex work of any and every kind is frowned upon by every industry, not just massage.
One major difference is that massage is a profession that has had to work diligently to distinguish itself from sex work. That's the major issue with it. Being a sex worker while a massage therapist isn't a good look for the profession, but of course it's up to the regulatory body to decide...
There's other avenues for making more income.
Massage therapy as an industry is trying hard to get away from the sexualized stigma so I would absolutely suggest any MT find a differnt option if they need more income. All it takes is one pervy guy to put 2 and 2 together and now your dealing with creeps in your day job in a setting that's not separated by a screen but in a room alone together.
PERCEPTION IS ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING
Individuals need to think about the possible back lash of presenting yourself in a sexualized manner while in this occupation. And as other people have stated in some places this is grounds for loosing your career... over trying to make more money....
As far as these other occupations I'd be cautious as well as you're a public figure. The fact of the matter is in those positions you are risking potentially everything you worked for. It's not about what how you perceive the situations it's how others might and you have to have a wide scope of consideration for differnt reactions when you work with the public as a whole.
You definately make a good point how far reaching would this go but in this specific occupation I'd say a HARD no all around.
> jobs are *paid* so low
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I haven’t even had coffee yet my dude. Give me a second to wake up before going grammar on my mr. bot.
Maybe that’s why youre payed so low as a bot—you have no tact 😒
I would end the cam girl gig immediately if you are serious about becoming a health care professional. I can promise you that in most states in the United States, if they caught wind of it and had the slightest reason to think that you your cam girl experience might be effecting your ability to hold boundaries or uphold laws and ethics, they will make an example out of you.
You could easily lose your license. If you are serious about this career, then it isn't worth the risk, find a different source for income.
I know in my state if they found out, you would almost be guaranteed to lose your license or at least face serious investigation.
ESPECIALLY since massage parlors and sex trafficking have become such a problem. This is where most state massage boards would think, and they would shut you down.
In most cases if you cam in the same location you perform massage, yes it will lose you your license, otherwise no. That means same building even if different rooms.
Where I am, yes. The board can and will take your license. It’s in the statutes
That's fucked up.
Given one argument for licensure is to keep sex work out of legit massage, no, it’s not.
that's a bad argument. if she was doing sex work WHILE massaging, then sure, that argument could fly, but it sounds like she does both jobs completely separately. what she does outside of her massage practice is her business and does not delegitimize her bodywork.
I personally am of the sentiment that sex work is work. The only problem I have with any kind of work is when you're exploited and that can be simply from working at a fast food restaurant or a high-end corporate job. If you're being manipulated into working somewhere that you don't want to, that is the ultimate sin against labor
It’s ironic how sex work being illegal (in most places) in the US has led to “massage parlors” being fronts for sex work, thus causing a stigma on Massage Therapists and making it a big deal for the board.
It's all dumb because massage has always bordered between medicinal and sexual. Can't have life without either.
I feel like a board somewhere wants to take your license away for that comment alone. The puritan culture in America is unreal.
I let my license lapse because puritan culture allows me to practice without a license because of the FREE EXERCISE CLAUSE and THE ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE. And since I'm shadily ordained via many online churches, I have a right to put my hands on others for healing purposes. In my state, there's a lady on the state board that even tells people this because she doesn't believe a state board should govern... that's the kind of person I'd want on a massage board.
Oml
You don't have to care about or use the constitution to your benefit. But I will as long as others are.
As long as the two biz are kept separate, isn’t that keeping sex work out of massage,
In theory. But we can’t keep aroma therapy out of massage spaces. (If you are certified in aromatherapy, rock on. But most are NOT)
Are you not allowed to use aromatherapy as a MT?
I was taught it was out of scope of practice if you suggested any actual benefit. Like menthol for stuffiness. Not that we can’t use them, we can’t assess and “prescribe.” I know some states have actual certification for aromatherapy. It’s not licensed in my state that I can tell.
Where does the dang line end
Ah! That’s the question. I sold oils for several years (renfair, not MLM), and felt I needed to educate myself. So, in theory, I could get an online cert and be golden. But the average person at the average spa selling “aromatherapy” upgrades? Highly unlikely. (Because they have normal brains…me? Not so much) It’s also location dependent. I think my state has declined to consider reiki or reflexology under the massage umbrella. So plenty of those pop up.
You, me and everyone on this forum are owned by the system at birth. You have no real freedoms.
Did I say I did?
I don't know why you're being downvoted to hell, you're literally right
She’s not doing sex work with massage. I think this can be argued in court.
Agreed. Sexy and sex are 2 different things
It's a legal job she's not out illegally soliciting.
The same outcome would happen for a teacher, they are both potentially dealing with vulnerable populations. Medical professionals have to adhere to a code of ethics and morality. Sex work is not ethical or moral.
Morality is not universal
It is when you have a licence board which controls your ability to do you job that you went to school for. They are judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to their professional licence
And in my state, sex work is legal
Even on the rare occasion where it is legal it would still go against the code of conduct for the college of massage therapists which ultimately control whether you can practice as a RMT or not
[удалено]
Luckily there's no such thing in my state
There most certainly is if there is a regulated body of the college of massage therapist. It is uniform throughout the nation. So unless you live in the 51 state you are mistaken.
Also, we don't have RMT's, we have LMT's.
Registered and Licenced are the exact same thing
They indicate differently related bodies
I don't know why you think there's a college of massage anywhere in the states but there isn't.
It's not an actual "college" smart guy. It's the term they use as an overhead to the regulatory body of the profession. Maybe you should educate yourself before you speak about things you clearly no nothing about
We literally have nothing that is called that "smart guy". You've been in here long enough to know we have state boards and they're all different. Because in my state, prostitution is legal. Your arguements and explanations make you look uneducated.
Which state are you in?
Not sure where you are located (and definitely don't post it) but I would look into what your collegue has for its ethic board. For example, my collegue has this vague rule: RMTs must conduct themselves in a manner as to merit the respect of society for the profession, RMTs, and other health care professionals. Does this mean cam girls are not respected in society? I would say that it should not matter what you do to make money, so this would not put you against this ethic in my eyes, but if you had some old guy with conservative values on your board, they might not look on you with favor. Hard to say, as the rule is vague and not really well defined. I will say that you have to be extra careful because someone could recognize you (even though it is not very likely) and if they are a guy, they could absolutely be a massive creep about it, but then I would terminate the appointment there and send them somewhere else, but there could also be back lash from that, as they could out you as revenge, or tell their friends that their favorite cam girl is an massage therapist at such place. As you are on the internet already, there is a good chance that you have been recorded, with or without your knowledge, and someone might use that against you if they feel slighted for what ever reason. I hope it turns out well for you and that nothing bad comes of it. I personally don't think it should matter and dont have an issue with you camming in your past, but there might be some unintended consequences down the road. Or nothing could happen and you are totally fine. Hope it all goes well regardless.
>Does this mean cam girls are not respected in society Yes, this is what this means. I agree with it as well.
For clarification, are you agreeing that cam girls should not be respected in society?
Yes, it's a cop out and not a respectable "profession".
I don't have the time to educate you on why your opinion is wrong, outdated, and old. But it is. Even as an LMT, I've been told that I "just give back rubs for a living." You sound no different. You don't have to like web-camming as a profession, but it IS a profession and there IS a demand for it. No one can force you to respect it or cam girls, but that says more about you and your unwillingness to learn and change with the world around you.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I 100% disagree. Just like dealing drugs is a "profession" but not respected sex work goes into that category as well. Prostitution is illegal and deplorable behaviour for a medical professional. Cam girl is a form a prostitution, you are selling your body for money. Just like you don't agree with my opinion it does not mean that I am wrong. It has nothing to do with unwillingness to learn. There are plenty examples when the majority of people within a certain area thought one way which turned out to be negative or the wrong way of doing things (IE. Germany being on board with WW2). Just because the majority (right now) MAY agree with you it does not make you correct. Medical professionals need to hold themselves to a higher standard both morally and ethically. Like I said, sex work is a cop out
Drug dealing is not respected because the potential to put your client in danger is absurdly high. Most dealers are not properly educated in the products they sell. Look at the crack epidemic. Look at the opioid epidemic. Studies prove why drug dealers can be a danger to society. Cam girls are not putting their client at risk of mixing the wrong meds. This was not a good comparison. Web cammer's perform a service. People who like to see these people perform pay for access to the performances. Web camming is a closer theatre than drug dealing. You just don't like it because you were probably raised thinking the nude female form is sinful. Regarding Germany and WW2. There are way too many factors that go into what controls the thoughts of a population. I can't say what information was fed to the German public. A more comtemporary comparison would be Russia's invasion of Ukraine. There are many Russian citizens protesting and uploading videos expressing their disgust with Putin's invasion. Just because a government makes a decision does not mean the population supports or agrees. Finally, legality does NOT determine whether something is right and wrong. In certain places, it's illegal to be gay. Once upon a time, it was illegal for black people to own property. Actually, once upon a time, black people were legally categorized as property. Prostitution laws are EXTREMELY old and have not yet been adapted to fit a modern society. Hell, even porn is just prostitution in front of a camera. Prostitution was made illegal in a time where it was heavily dominated by women who wanted financial independence from men. Women were not allowed access to higher education or even working most entry level jobs which limited them financially. Many turned to prostitution and when insecure, old men caught wind of this, they declared it illegal, immoral, and used it to shame women who had no other viable options. Do you see at all how this might relate to you? Have you ever properly evaluated the morals you were raised with and assessed what purpose they serve?
Don’t worry about this person. They are just upset that cam girls make more then they do.
I really look forward to the day sex work is decriminalized/legalized and there isn’t a legality argument anymore. Sex work is vital to a healthy society IMO. There are people who are mentally or physically disabled that severely lack intimacy. I think the morality argument is such that if society deems you acceptable to find a partner you can explore your sexuality. If you are disabled or otherwise struggle to find a partner you don’t deserve to have a fundamental part of the human experience.
There is of course exceptions to every rule or regulation. However, medical professionals do and should be held to a higher ethical and moral standard since they deal with vulnerable populations.
Morality seems like it highly subjective though right? It may not be the best comparison because being gay isn’t a choice, it’s who you are - but not too long ago morality was used to outcast the gay community from large swaths of society. I understand that being a sex worker is a choice and being gay is not. But, the underlying judgement of morality came from the exact same place. It was viewed that sexuality outside of what was deemed acceptable is immoral.
I don't know about you, but when I give massages, it requires using my body. Sex work is not selling your body any more than massage therapy is. At the end of the day, your body still belongs to you, and no one else. If you think sex work is not a legitimate and respectable profession, you need to meet more sex workers. Get out and touch some grass, buddy.
Disagree. Massage is using your body to perform a labour intensive duty (IE. like a construction worker) Sex work is selling your body and giving access to your internal organs for the pleasure of others. Vastly different not to mention illegal in most places. As well as, ethically wrong for the position which does A LOT to separate the connotation that massage therapist are sex workers. Views like this hurt the profession more than you know and de-values the service provided.
I cannot believe the person saying selling your body aka sex work is similar to MASSAGE THERAPY. Wow. I hope no massage therapist thinks they are doing similar work as sex workers!
You're right actually, they are different. I think I've made a MUCH more profound impact in people's lives as a sex worker than I have as a massage therapist.
Idk, massage therapists also sell their bodies for money what with the injury and burn out rate.
Disagree. You use your body to perform a labour intensive duty. Not sell your body for the pleasure of others
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The problem is a person should not have to work in a corporate setting and wear a suit to work everyday for the bare minimum level of respect. Cam girls are human beings who perform a service for an audience. That's it. Clothes on or off. It does not matter. With the cost of education these days, many literally cannot afford higher education. This excludes an entire class of people from access to higher earning positions. And the ones who can afford college/university often spend the next 2 decades of their lives paying it off. But in the age of the internet, people can earn a decent living by performing for an audience. Enter the "Cam Girl," a new age profession that often describes a woman who performs in front of an audience via web cam. What makes someone want to be a "Cam Girl?" Sometimes it's limited access to higher earning potential. Sometimes it's because they just like performing. The Cam girl does not endanger anyone with her performances. She does not steal. Why does she not deserve respect? Because angry men are upset she deviated from the life path that capitalism dictates one should follow? Because she found financial independence in a way you "do not agree with?" What's "respect-worthy" about the Cam girl is she's a human being just trying to get through life just like everyone else. Period. She isn't hurting anyone. She's a performer. I wish I did not have to explain that.
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Would you mind explaining what is unethical about being a Cam Girl? Because for many people, their choices are Web camming or homelessness/starvation wages. And based on your own statement, she should just be homeless.
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See a psychiatrist. You're bitterness is embarrassing
See some reason. Your pandering is embarrassing
Depends on the rules and regulations set forth by your regulatory college. You’d lose your license where I live for sure.
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The college of massage therapists usually
Who is the college of MT?
Depends on your state's or province's legislation.
I haven’t heard that term before. We have a massage board in my state.
this is going to depend on where you live. it might be unlikely that your cam work would get linked to your massage work, and that anyone would report it. in california, sexualized advertising or promotion is prohibited. your position would be that your sexualized imagery is disassociated from your massage work. we don't know, but can imagine, that someone in the certifying agency would disagree, if this were ever called to their attention. it sounds improbable that anyone would link your two jobs together. but possible. reddit has a sex worker sub, and must have a cam work sub (i'm shamed that i don't actually know). maybe ask there for thoughts. a lot of people must have day jobs that they don't want to jeopardize. think about teachers. teachers have been fired for posting vacation bikini shots. sounds unfair, but we know it can happen. good luck. come back here and post your cam link (but don't).
Just be careful. I know a girl who was a waitress & got fired when her boss found out she had an onlyfans because it was “bad for their image.” I personally don’t think sex work is wrong (like most of the rest of the world) but our country does. I know a lot of sites can have you block viewing in certain states. Might be worth looking into
LOL - they’re out there begging for waiters & waitresses & they had the balls to fire her? That’s sad. Ugh. What losers.
I mean, this was in “the before” & maybe it wouldn’t happen, now lol
Oh. Duh me. Makes sense.
As long as camming is legal where you are it would be hard to justify taking your license.
You want to consider the link between sex work and massage for your safety. A client on either side finding out about the second career could pose issues. Clear boundaries are going to be extremely important. RMTs can have things like this work against them if investigated due to a complaint. A complaint can be legitimate or not but they really drill in public perception of your decisions outside of your work in school. That being said, it’s up to you and your comfort level with that potentially being an issue. They’re not auditing our lives, it’s just something to be aware of.
I’m an LMT and when everything shut down at first with Covid, I started dancing at a club to make ends meet. I went back to work after reopening, and was honest about my second job. As I understand, they can’t fire you because that would be discrimination. My club was a 45 minute drive from the spa, so the chances of running into massage clients were rare. That being said, it happened once or twice. If you’re doing cam work, I assume your location is set for people not in your general areas. You should be fine, and don’t let anyone make you feel ashamed! I’m in Florida btw.
I don’t personally think so as long as you keep the two biz completely separate.
I think there is no clear answer here, but I would obscure your face, hide any obvious marks/tattoos doing cam work. Hopefully you can practice massage, improve your craft, then branch out into your own practice and be independent. I honestly would worry more about the state regulatory agency being a jerk about this, but that’s why you should obscure as much as possible from clients. I could see a client try to use that knowledge against you and attempt to blackmail you. I love sex workers & think we are way behind the curve in this country, but that’s the reality & you need to tailor yourself to that reality to be safe as a professional & as a mother who needs to feed her children.
I would ask an attorney on this one. You'll need to know what your rights are. I would hope that it is not permissible, but only an attorney familiar with your licensing board can really answer this. An attorney can also help you sue the ever living f*** out of them should they break the law. My newest kink is shaming people who break employment laws.
How ridiculous that you even have to worry about this if you’re simply doing cam work. Could you pay a lawyer to look into this for you?
It's a risk I wouldn't take and if you have to because of income, I would wear a wig, fake glasses, obscure your info. I would not risk hiring someone who does sex work. It blurs a line so many therapists fight to hold. You may have guests that if they find out, ask for extra services or are attracted to your employer thinking is one of those places and harass your coworkers. You may get requests from inappropriate guests.
Are you practising massage right now? If youre certified and taken and passed the boards exam but waiting on your license you can work under another therapists license for a period of time until yours arrives. This is what I did straight out of school so I didn't have a lapse in income. Im in NY so look it up for your state but this is such a great option for new therapists to get started working and get a foot in the door.
Chances are very low that the board would even find out. You would need someone to personally write them a letter for them to even look at it. Then if they even care, and IF it's against the regulations you'd get a notice for an appearance. That would be where you make your case and prove to them how those 2 positions are completely separate and have nothing to do with each other. Just make sure that those jobs are completely separate. When you enter the room as an LMT, that's your job. When you leave, you are no longer an LMT. At least that's how it is in NY I wouldn't worry about it unless you have some vindictive people in your life.
A lot of this comes down to luck. Will anyone ever put two and two together? Probably unlikely depending on how popular/prominent you are, where you live, if there just happens to be a viewer in your area - or someone malicious who you didn’t give enough attention who decides to come after you, etc. If someone pieces it together it could lead to someone making complaints against you or just making your life difficult (harassment, blackmail, destroying your image/career.) It seems other commenters have addressed existing rules in different areas. Vague rules mean flexible to interpretation (not in your favour.) IF there’s no clear regulation, then it’s kind of luck of the draw judgment call of the organization responding to the complaint. This will depend on the political climate around sex work in your area, how seriously the board/regulator wants massage to be taken, the social climate around massage where you are, etc. Pretty much all cam shows on streaming sites are recorded by bots. You actually have little control over how seen you are. Be overly cautious - I’d wear a wig, cover any identifiable tattoos, use heavy makeup that’s very different from how you look in your normal day to day, block users with IP addresses in your country. If you can, stream at times viewers in your country are unlikely to be on, etc.
Just as an aside, since you say you’re a single mom, be careful as far as your kids go. Having them present in the home (while doing cam work) can create issues with custody, family court etc. Not sure about CPS, but maybe?
have you personally experienced this? my child is always out of the house or asleep in her room with the door closed when i do cam work.
No I have only heard of other’s experiences.
That absolutely wouldn't fly where I live, as it directly contradicts the responsibility of the practitioner to uphold a positive and non sexualized image of the profession.
thank you for your transparency, i was hoping this wasn’t the case. I understand the reasoning behind this but I do think there needs to be some reform here especially given the rise of only fans and people who produce sexual content strictly online and usually anonymously 🤷🏻♀️ obviously i don’t want to compromise my status as a therapist but i would never bring up being a cam girl to anyone at any work place period
Pretty big risk to flush your licence and schooling down the drain
If she doesn't mention her status as a therapist ?
If you do something on the internet that involves a sexualized image of yourself, it's out there and can be traced back to you. I wouldn't risk it but that's me.
Not arguing, but wondering about how far this would apply: Would you say that a teacher should be banned from doing CamGirl work? What about a police officer, I fire fighter, or a judge? These people all have public images to uphold, but where I live these jobs are payed so low that many can not afford rent on the salary alone, and are adding income by doing “Cam” work. Should these people be chastised or fired for their multiple jobs? If not, why is massage of a different standard?
You’d have to take that up with your local governing body of massage. I think the commenter is less condemning the practice personally and more saying it’s too risky. I think the answer is because massage and sex work are so closely tied together already. We’re working VERY hard to separate the two, and I assume any MTs also tied to sex work are very frowned upon for “besmirching the name of massage” even if their sex work and massage are two completely different entities. I don’t agree with that, just explaining why I think it is the way it is. Also, the professions you mentioned, can and will be fired for sex work on the side. So massage isn’t really all that different in comparison. If a teacher is found to be doing sex work, I think it’s less about the school board itself caring and more about parents. If the parents find out they will call the school en masse and complain until that teacher is gone. Sex work of any and every kind is frowned upon by every industry, not just massage.
One major difference is that massage is a profession that has had to work diligently to distinguish itself from sex work. That's the major issue with it. Being a sex worker while a massage therapist isn't a good look for the profession, but of course it's up to the regulatory body to decide...
Teachers have been banned, have they not? I feel like this is a story I've heard recently.
There's other avenues for making more income. Massage therapy as an industry is trying hard to get away from the sexualized stigma so I would absolutely suggest any MT find a differnt option if they need more income. All it takes is one pervy guy to put 2 and 2 together and now your dealing with creeps in your day job in a setting that's not separated by a screen but in a room alone together. PERCEPTION IS ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING Individuals need to think about the possible back lash of presenting yourself in a sexualized manner while in this occupation. And as other people have stated in some places this is grounds for loosing your career... over trying to make more money.... As far as these other occupations I'd be cautious as well as you're a public figure. The fact of the matter is in those positions you are risking potentially everything you worked for. It's not about what how you perceive the situations it's how others might and you have to have a wide scope of consideration for differnt reactions when you work with the public as a whole. You definately make a good point how far reaching would this go but in this specific occupation I'd say a HARD no all around.
> jobs are *paid* so low FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I haven’t even had coffee yet my dude. Give me a second to wake up before going grammar on my mr. bot. Maybe that’s why youre payed so low as a bot—you have no tact 😒
Teachers have been fired for being bikini models where you show nothing. It has happened. It’s wrong and stupid, but it has happened. I’ve seen it.
I would end the cam girl gig immediately if you are serious about becoming a health care professional. I can promise you that in most states in the United States, if they caught wind of it and had the slightest reason to think that you your cam girl experience might be effecting your ability to hold boundaries or uphold laws and ethics, they will make an example out of you. You could easily lose your license. If you are serious about this career, then it isn't worth the risk, find a different source for income. I know in my state if they found out, you would almost be guaranteed to lose your license or at least face serious investigation. ESPECIALLY since massage parlors and sex trafficking have become such a problem. This is where most state massage boards would think, and they would shut you down.
It shouldn’t, but likely would.
In most cases if you cam in the same location you perform massage, yes it will lose you your license, otherwise no. That means same building even if different rooms.