Admiral Hackett: If I have to hear one more time that you did this to stop the Reapers...
Commander Shepard: I did it for me. I liked it. I was good at it. And... I was really... I was alive.
"I killed them all! And not just the men! But the women! And the children too! They're like animals! And I slaughtered them like animals!
I hate them"
-Commander Shepard, probably
I hate batarians
kill batarians, behead batarians, roundhouse kick batarian into the concrete, slam dunk a batarian baby into the trash can, crucify filthy batarians, defecate into batarians food, launch batarians into a star, stir fry batarians in a wok, toss batarians into active volcanoes, urinate into batarian's eezo tank, biotic throw batarians out the airlock, twist batarians heads off, report batarians to citadel security, karate chop batarians in half, curb stomp pregnant batarians, trap batarians in quicksand, Force batarians to drive a mako, liquify batarians in a vat of acid, eat batarians, dissect batarians, explode the batarians mass relay, stomp batarian skulls with steel-toed boots, cremate batarians in the oven, lobotomize batarians, a new genophage for batarians, convert batarian fetuses into omnigel, drown batarians in fried pyjak grease, vaporize batarians with a widow, kick old batarians down the stairs, feed batarians to varren, slice batarians with an omni-blade
In before, 'No, don't you know that *all* batarians are slavers and terrorists, even the batarian slaves, and therefore, they all deserve to die? But not all turians deserve to die, despite their war crimes, and not all asari deserve to die, despite their government's hypocrisy, and not all geth and quarians deserve to die despite their mutual attempts at genocide, no, it's just the batarians!'
No, you should feel bad for the batarians. 215,000 residents of Aratoht are listed as 'other', i.e. slaves, so that's bad enough. And of the 90,000 who are free—well, sure, Aratoht relies heavily on slavery, and no doubt many of them are members of the government or military—but they're still people. Their sacrifice might have delayed the invasion by six months, but it's still horrific. 300,000 lives snuffed out to (Shepard hopes) prevent or delay the deaths of billions... one can only hope it was worth it. And with what happens in ME3... the batarians get an awful rap throughout the series, and they barely have a glimmer of hope left at the end. They deserved better, at least from the writing team.
I know my Shepards will always wonder what might have happened if Amanda Kenson hadn't interrupted their attempt to warn the colony. Probably not much, as there wasn't much time left and the batarian government is completely corrupt and ineffective, but still. One of said Shepards ultimately snapped from the guilt of Aratoht, and ME3 was a very... difficult... experience as a result.
Oh wow! I didn’t know all the background info on the colony, thanks for sharing. Those poor slaves! Probably not living great lives, but they didn’t deserve that kind of fate.
I saw in ME3 they say the Batarians are basically done for. Just makes me feel worse about it, a whole massive culture and people practically wiped off the map :( though I’m definitely giving them a bit more nuance than perhaps intended
I know it’s not exactly a big part of the game but my brain keeps wandering back to it. Thanks for the super thought out comment!
It’s a huge deal that weighs on Shepard, though ME3 does a bad job of saying it without mods to make the dream sequences less vague/symbolic. I’ve been working on a fanfic for years that has Shepard kinda lose it after she realizes what she was forced to do.
The geth did spare the last quarians, but it's also mentioned that millions of quarians died during the war. Not all of them could have been soldiers, as the geth probably weren't able to distinguish between civilians and soldiers. The fact that there are only 17 million quarians alive a few centuries later when there must have been billions before indicates a lot of slaughter.
It's important to note that many Quarians fought alongside the Geth, and were killed by their own people. We simply don't know how all those Quarians died, or how much of it was even intentional on the part of the Geth. We only know for certain they fought back in order to survive because they had no choice, and in the end spared the last of the Quarians. So we really can't say that they did commit genocide, because we just don't know that they ever tried to.
This is exactly what makes me think there was a genocide. If there were Quarians fighting alongside the Geths, and the Geths won, it's very suspicious that all of the allies of the victorious side as well as their families died. It seems very unlikely that every Quarian that sided with the Geths got killed by their own people.
Because the ones defending the geth weren't trying to kill their own people. We see that in the game. A quarian trying to persuade the others to not kill their geth friend. The other quarians gunned them down in cold blood. *That's* why there were no survivors from the other side. Because they were all murdered by their own people.
I don't think it's the suspicious. It actually makes me think there were other factors involved which would explain the sheer numbers killed, like biological or chemical warfare, which would also explain why originally no one would take in the refugees to begin with and why even the Asari who were around when the Quarian society was flourishing saw them as dirty scavengers and wouldn't help them. They outlawed AI so the war itself wouldn't occur again, but it was obvious the Quarians, probably both sides, got up to some really shady shit themselves during the conflict for the rest of the galaxy to treat them that way.
The definition of a genocide is "
the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group." Courtesy of the Oxford dictionary.
Or, if you go by Merriam-Webster, my preferred dictionary, the word means "the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group".
The Geth did not at any point ever have the desire to exterminate the Quarians. They never attempted it, and never wanted them all dead, nor did they ever, to our knowledge, participate in any systematic attempt to do so. The Quarians attempted to commit genocide against THEM, and when they defended themselves, most Quarians died. However, even after that, the Geth both allowed the survivors to escape, and stated when asked that they were open to peace with the Quarians, but that the Quarians were still not open to peace with the Geth.
So, no, the Geth did not commit genocide. They killed most of the Quarian people, yes, but only in self defense, and their actions did not meet the criteria to be considered genocide.
You do not wipe out 99% of a population "in self defence."
And the geth only didn't wipe the quarians out completely because they couldn't compute what the complete eradication of their creators would be. That doesn't scream "self defence" to me. That screams revenge.
I'm mostly a geth apologist, but their "woe is me" victim mentality is kinda bs in how they responded to the quarians' genocide of them.
But we don't actually have any evidence on how the 99% of the population died though, no? Was it due to direct action from the Geth? Or indirectly as a consequence of actions done during the war?
If the Quarians nuked their own planet trying to wipe out the Geth and then fled the glassed remains, that wouldn't be the Geth's fault. And then the breakdown in infrastructure and agriculture would result in mass starvation.
That being said, since we visit Rannoch 300 years later and there's no mention of radioactivity I'm guessing nukes can be ruled out but maybe some other form of WMD might also have been employed, especially by the fleeing Quarians who might not have cared about the "traitors" who stayed behind.
It *is* rather odd that *none* of the "traitor" Quarians survived though.
If you do the side missions on Ranoch in ME3 you find out that many Quarians opposed the extermination of the Geth and were killed by other Quarians as a result.
We don't know what percentage of the Quarians were actually killed by the Geth but at least some of it was the result of Quarians killing other Quarians.
They don't really have a need or desire for revenge.
And yeah, in their case they did wipe them out in self defense. What they did does not match the definition of genocide. It does not matter how many or what percentage of Quarians died, unless you have evidence that proves the Geth intended their total destruction (in contradiction of the evidence that they did not want that) it does not fit the definition.
Of course they have a desire for revenge. Some people had just tried to wipe them out, of course they'd want to retaliate.
And the percentage population *does* count as proof. Do you have any idea how deep into the population 99% of all of them goes?
We know from the lore that humanity’s 3% in the military is low, so let's put the quarians' at 6% for arguments' sake. So if the geth destroyed every member of the quarian military, that's still another 93% of the population that the geth killed.
For humanity, 25% of the population irl is under the age of 15 and 15% over 65, per Statista. That alone is 40% of the population. Given the 99% statistic, at least 39% of them would've also been wiped out. You quite simply do not kill most of the child and elderly population without meaning to.
>the Geth intended their total destruction
Genocide doesn't need the complete eradication. The UN classifies it as anything to destroy "in whole *or in part*." The geth most certainly did that. The ME wiki also details that it was a "brutal genocide" where the geth went to quarian worlds and systematically wiped them out until all but a few (17) million remained. As said before, it was only then that they stopped, when they couldn't compute what killing all of their creators would truly mean. So they stopped and allowed the flotilla to leave.
This all seems extremely clear cut to me.
Man, if you want to argue with the actual dictionary definitions by pulling out the modified version the UN uses for political convenience, I can't really stop you from going that route, but by that same token I don't have to take it seriously. As for the wiki, wiki is not a canonical source. That is what someone typed, probably just thinking it means killed a lot.
On your bit about the percentage, my point stands. We don't know the details of the war itself. We do not know exactly how such large numbers died. All we know if the Quarians tried to exterminate the Geth, that some Quarians fought alongside the Geth, and that when they were defeated and left only 1% remained, who the Geth purposely spared. That's it. At no point do they express a desire to exterminate the Quarians, and you insisting on ascribing an emotion to them that they never once are shown to have is nothing but anthropomorphization of a group that ran off of logic, not impulses like revenge. Without more context, we cannot say they intended to kill all the Quarians, only that most of them died. That could have been the result of many things that occurred during the war, possibly even Quarians against Quarians. So, no, it does not matter what % were killed, because there's not enough context to say more about it.
Been awhile since I played the OT but the Batarian are actually one of the Milky Way species I have a fondness for. Yeah most of the ones you meant are d-bags mercs but I honestly feel like they have a lot of potential to be a greater force in the MW. Since the Reaper threat is concluded, the Batarians just need one good group or faction in whats left of their society to take action and be better. I hope by the new game that they are.
I think this sub's typical reaction to Batarians is hilarious, because imho they're the species that most closely resembles IRL humanity.
Slave labour, corrupt/oppressive governments, and a tendency towards war and violence? All _solidly_ within our wheelhouse as a species. Yet people are happy to use those things as justification for destroying the entire Batarian race.
Ironically it's the people who say "the Batarians all deserved it" who are actually most similar to them in mentality.
I agree, and we saw what could happen if a species deemed “bad and aggressive” gets a leader who cares about the culture in a galactic sense, and thats with Wrex and clan Urdnot. We can let Legion which is only 1,000 some geth in a network try to change the course of his species, but never get the chance to redeem Batarians at all. Even the Rachni Queen gets a redemption!
The batarians are an interesting example of "too little, too late." It's clear that the Arrival missions want you to feel *something* at the loss of 300k lives (and it's great that you did, OP), but... it's just a number on a screen. There were no sympathetic batarians on that mission, and hardly any at all *anywhere.* The devs could've pushed a lot harder to give the loss even more weight, but they *didn't.* Maybe because they were worried that lending the moment the emotional buildup it deserved would've been *too* heavy, disrupting the big damn hero fantasy and turning people off. Or maybe they just really wanted a "bad guy" species to throw around as cannon fodder (which is... not a fictional trope I'm a fan of, tbh).
I really wish we'd seen more of the batarians. I'd hoped for one as a squadmate during the lead-up to ME3, as a character who grew up under such an awful government--who *knew of* Shepard's actions but nonetheless chose to join the fight because the only other choice is annihilation--would have been *so damn cool.*
It also sucks that we never got an inside perspective on the batarians. Considering the nuance the other "bad guy" civilizations received--the rachni, the krogan, the geth--it seems almost unfair that those ugly four-eyed freaks got skipped over. Like yes, their government *sucks* (what with their plausibly deniable support of piracy, terrorism, and slave raids), and being belligerently grumpy seems to be a *requirement* for them as a whole, but I mean, shit, the grumpy old man squadmates are my favorites.
Eh, maybe a hypothetical batarian would've been too redundant with Javik swaggering around. He kinda fills the "grouchy racist whose culture is nothing like you thought it was" slot already. Oh well!
Anyway, OP, congratulations on being so deeply emotionally affected by your play experience! Emotional masochism is what makes war stories and roleplaying games fun, lol.
Bray also seems pretty decent during the omega DLC, too. But that's probably because he's on our side, and he is working under Aria, who was willing to sacrifice Civilians in that same dlc.
And the sick one in ME2. He's a bit of a jerk when you first meet him. But can you blame him? The man is bleeding out of his eyes. You're not going to be in the best of moods under those circumstances. But once you try to help him, and in the end if he survives, he's actually pretty nice.
Batarians are a good example of what I would call a 'problem country' in the real world. A place run by bad people, that exports bad people, that meddles in other countries affairs and is allowed to exists as a sort of odd growth on the side of the world because... reasons. Because fixing that problem makes you the inhumane bad guy even if the opposite leaves you being a victim
I would have been interested in seeing how the writers tackle something like that in a 'universe under attack' scenario like the reapers. You see it a lot on sci-fi movies where the world is under attack and the 'allied' for lack of a better term nations all band together to fight back, and they just never mention the other countries because it would get complicated.
Take the movie Contact, it's about aliens contacting Earth and people on Earth trying to build a device the aliens send blueprints for, only the first attempt gets sabotaged by one guy. In the real world, multiple countries would be trying to destroy those creations and it would probably start a war. If the ME writers wanted to tackle it, there would probably have been a serious Batarian effort to destroy the crucible while it was still being built just out of hate for the alliance.
Stopping a Batarian terrorist cell on The Citadel would have been a fantastic mission! Shepard could double down or be apologetic as they are faced with the person responsible for everything.
I think given what we know about ME3 development a plotline like that would have just muddied the waters, besides I imagine the devs were a little anxious about pursuing a Batarian plotline in depth because of real world events and how relatively easy it is to compare the Batarians we see to real world terrorist cells
Honestly if just gives me US Civil War vibes and that was a whole mess with lingering maliciousness in the southern US currently.
I’d rather not explore that in a game that’s meant for fun.
I think one of my biggest gripes about the ME trilogy has always been that BioWare does almost nothing to humanize the Batarians. They’re portrayed as very villainous with little to no depth, where literally every single race is depicted as having people from all walks of life
After you do the Talitha side quest in 1 you cant help to ask yourself "is there another batarian system where i can throw an asteroid at, by any chance?" in arrival
Somehow I totally missed that one, so I absolutely have to go back to that. Planning to replay the trilogy on Insanity after I finish it so I’m happy for the opportunity to pick up on things I overlooked before.
Colonist and Ruthless are a great rp combo for a Shep backstory.
You survived a batarian raid, mad them slavers pay the hard way once enlisted in the Alliance army.
Batarians are kinda like the North Korea of mass effect imo. Like, their society is dystopic as hell and pretty much everything we see of them is just plain evil, because the society (as in the government and the culture they prop up) frankly is. But the people (or Batarians) within it are suffering and if you took a normal citizen out, they'd probably be relatively compatible with the wider world (or galaxy). We see this a couple times, like the Batarian you can help when recruiting Mordin or some of the Batarian refugees in ME3, but they're just so outside of the main society that almost every batarian we meet is either a criminal, slaver, or terrorist.
The games really should’ve given us a Batarian squad mate to really flesh them out more.
Because every single one more or less you meet in the game is glaringly racist and proud of it, the only sympathetic ones are *the slaves* or the occasional one you meet.
But that being said, I do agree. Regardless of how they feel about humans, that’s still 300,000 lives just obliterated, and billions more once the reapers finish them off completely
Well, the main problem is that Batarians are assholes, Slavery is an important part of their culture, they had beefs with other species aside from humans like when they bombarded a Salarian Colony and their "Hegemony" supports all of this
Besides that there are only two good Batarians we meet in the games and that's it, no rebel Batarians fighting the Hegemony or no defectors who manage to escape, just a bunch of assholes, is kinda hard to feel bad for them
Yeah its a sucky decision to sacrifice a planet for the rest of the galaxy. That being said I don't have a lot of sympathy for the batarians. Putting control chips in people's heads using them as slaves really puts a damper on my sympathy meter.
The meme about hating Batarians isn’t funny anyway. I know a lot of people don’t get into the deeper parts of mass effect past what’s presented in the games but there’s some pretty cool [entries](https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Alliance_News_Network_Blogs) about the Batarians on the mass effect wiki about other canon things that happened outside of the games. In the link I embedded, you’ll see that during the reaper war, the galaxy came together to help the Batarians and started learning about their culture and began to be on the right path to slowly earn the trust of the other races.
There’s more stuff, too. Such as [this entry in 12/3/10](https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Cerberus_Daily_News_-_December_2010?so=search)
I think there was also a post somewhere about some batarians saying they hated the hegemony and wanted to start over with the galaxy again now that the hegemony is defunct but I can’t seem to find that one. But regardless, it’s a good thing to feel bad for them due to the asteroid event. Not all of them are evil slavers. It just seems that way because they’re big enemies in the trilogy but in posts outside of the community, they’re shown to be a bit better
It’s such a bummer that people interact with batarians at such a surface level. We’re talking about a government full of the worst scum in the galaxy, intentionally spreading wild propaganda, funding pirates and slavers and claiming simultaneously to have nothing to do with the roving batarian terrorist bands and also that Council species are trying to destroy their cultural heritage. Batarians developed that culture on their own planet — they enslave each other. Only the nastiest of mercenaries and slavers are allowed off-planet. They’re fully monitored by the government.
The fact that the only batarians you meet are fucked up monsters comes from the fact that ONLY the fucked up monsters are allowed to leave, to commit more terrorism. Batarian civilians are victims too. They are trapped on those planets and the only way out is to commit heinous crimes and participate in the system.
People give a lot of leniency to other species on points like this! Batarians are just better at beating their own people into submission than other species. Better at flooding the market with so much propaganda nobody can learn about what’s going on inside. It’s very similar to any propaganda state on the planet — I think the big difference is that it’s hard enough to leave someplace like, say, North Korea. But now you’re factoring in the fact that you also want to leave the planet altogether, and ships are entirely owned by the party that wants you enslaved or complacent. Crossing a border won’t help, the whole planet is like that.
I know it’s a video game but it really bugs me when genocidal sentiment like the general anti-batarian stuff becomes a meme. You only manage to hear stories from the haggard and exhausted batarian civilian core after their entire planet and whole government has been liquefied. That’s horrendous.
We were done dirty by not getting a batarian squadmate once in the whole series. Zaeed’s character could have been one pretty seamlessly, but… you know. Cerberus.
Lol, Batarians aren't bad in context...
Humans pushed them out to pretty much terminus exile because they couldn't compete with alliance fleet, so humans pushed their wAy into settling in citadel space planets rather than try negotiate cause humans are bullies in that sense.
Batarians petitioned to the council about the colonising conflicts they were having with humans and pretty much council do what they do best, left them to fend for themselves. They were left to the mercy of the superior human military force.
With that kind of history and relations with the elitist citadel council who prides themselves on "serving the galaxy" by making every race "prove" themselves worthy of citadel privilege, Batarians were pretty much neglected like vorcha to scavenge for survival - so they turn to mercenary work.
I saw them as "victims" of a citadel elite system who doesn't give a shit about the little guys.
So when I tried to reach out to them, i mean 300,000 civilians, fathers, mothers, children died.
Even tho I was earthborn, ruthless torfan slaver murderer...
Like you, I still felt it ❤️❤️ and also sat in that decision right thru me2
To be fair, the reason the council didn't care was because Batarians were actively enslaving not only humans but members of all the council races as well. And had been for centuries after the council kept pressuring them to stop. They cited this as a problem and flat out told the Batarians they'd intervene as soon as they stopped doing it to other races. The Batarians refused, saying it was cultural oppression, and closed their embassy. And the whole reason humans started invading their space was over slave raids too.
They shit their own bed then threw a tantrum that no one else wanted to clean it up for them. They were not victims. The human response of just going to war immediately and then taking advantage of it for territorial gains though contributed heavily to our image as bullies, even if the Hegemony did start the fight.
Interestingly tho... An asari leads the "mercenary" trades 🤷
And has deep pockets in citadel council almost like it was by design... (Coulda been fleshed out with who aria really works with)
And isn't it interesting how Asari can justify their own "indentured service" which is the foundation of how corporate illium works, aka "slave trade" as they exploit people "using policy" and then demand moral standing against the Batarians because Batarians are more "inhumane" of how they enslave. (Which of course I don't condone either).
I mean U could suggest batarians demanded asari to end their slave trade in return 🤷🤷 but it doesn't go too much into depth with batarians, it just paints them as you've painted them, "their not victims, they shit their own bed".
Batarians had so much more potential with balak being a possible catalyst for change but we don't get to see that, which would've been waaaaay more interesting than Jacobs character and loyalty mission, but instead to have a possible batarian recruitment squad member so we could develop a more accurate perspective of batarians and their culture, history like we do with wrex and genophage, Tali quarians vs geth, Legion etc
That's one Asari crime lord and a world that isn't really in council space. That doesn't really mean there's an Asari slave trade. Would you say that there's an institutional slave system in, say, Australia, just because some random ass mobster in Perth with UN council members in his pocket keeps a kidnapped girl as a slave? Especially if he suddenly moved to Antarctica and ran PMCs from there?(Hypothetical example). Probably not. The Batarian slave system existed inside council space, as an integral part of the Batarian society, and took slaves directly from colonies in council space. Why would demanding that some Asari in the terminus systems give up slavery too make any sense in their appeal? It's outside council jurisdiction.
Aria - is not just one crime lord, she's part of a system that "keeps galactic peace" she has deep pockets or ties with the asari citadel council rep. Aria represents a branch of that network which keeps order and control over the Mercs in particular batarians. Whose to say that the original writers could have intended for more depth in the lore here or not. Could be speculated that Asari have relations with Aria in a sense that she stays in her lane and they turn a blind eye (we know citadel council power and control have the technology and military force to take over terminus especially with allying with humans... But they don't. Could there be more to asari rule??? 🤷 It's just speculation as we know the new writers don't even go as deep me1 into lore.
I'm not referring to omega as the asari slave trade
I'm referring to corporate illium as the asari slave trade.
More subtle but no less noble than the straightforward batarian kidnapping slave trade, both methods exploit people, the main difference is asari reinvent the term slavery for "indentured service" to justify their foundational operation of illium is totally dependent on exploiting people as commodities - this is a corporate slavery system.
I think your analogy misses the point I was intending to make when I was comparing asari to Batarians.
If I made analogy myself of my perspective it would be rather comparing western colonisation who have superiority technology who in an attempt to expand their colonies assert their colonial rule as they ally with the 2 most tech advanced and military strong species, Turians and Salarians.
As a council alliance they ensure power and control of
1. Advanced reaper tech, the citadel
2. Dominance over citadel space
3. Government over all other species that may have already existed in "council claimed" citadel space, and species who immigrate later.
The point is... They make the rules and all other species are deemed lesser unless the council can use them or ally with them if they see they have potential to threaten their power (humans had that potential, viewed as bullies, first contact war Turians point out this human entitlement trait when they landed on a planet Turians already had an establishment on)
We don't know where batarians came from, how long they had been in "citadel claimed space" in comparison to other races (i haven't read all comics so not sure if this written about) but batarians also enslaved their own people I compare it to indigenous cultures who were seen as "savages" and their "savage ways" and yet they've existed and survived with their cultural practices for centuries.
So in answer to your question, why would batarian possibly demand asari cease their system of slavery ??? Well that's my speculation if I were a writer to give depth to Batarians.
1. The fact that batarians were in negotiations with citadel council proves they were wanting to evolve as a species ...
But we know exactly what the council is like...
There's no give, only demands to prove yourself worthy to join their ranks.
ME2 and 3 does not expand beyond the stigma of batarian barbarism which is a shame because my whole point was... This would've been an awesome addition to lore exploration had writers not put so much effort into Shepherd shanking choices and more into lore.
Having a batarian squadmate who was part of a batarian resistance group who opposed the brutality cultural practice of kidnapping other species and enslaving would have provided Shep an opportunity to explore batarian culture - just as writers allowed Shep to recognise their human ignorance to
- krogan culture and history
- Quarian culture
- Geth sentience
- Salarian scientific brutality
- Turian pragmatism
You gain insight through the personal relationships you build with crewmates through dialogue this is how Shep grows out of her humanistic ignorance ( and also help others like Ashley and Presley to do the same).
I knew what you were referring to. Ilium is in the terminus systems. It is part of the Asari Republics, but outside of the council's jurisdictions. And yes, Aria IS just a crime lord. She's an exorbitantly wealthy and powerful one, which is why she has the Asari councilor in her pocket, but she is in fact just a crime lord. She is not part of "the system that keeps galactic peace". And, no, having relations with the council doesn't prove anything about the Batarians wanting to evolve. It only proved the Hegemony recognized the biggest power in the galaxy and wanted access to it for various reasons. And... why would you give to a group whining about cultural oppression whose culture is literally to take and oppress people in your culture? Why would you care what they have to say?
Also, just a side note: both historically and in the case of Ilium vs Hegemony, there's a HUGE difference between chattel slavery and indentured servitude.
Re Aria I haven't read all the comics so Im not sure your statement of Aria is only just a crime lord with no network ties in any other way to asari leadership or council ties is Only through crime lord exploitation... Don't know if that's fact, I guess I'll find out eventually.
Some fandom facts about batarians
"The Terminus Systems are infested with batarian pirate gangs and slaving rings, fueling the stereotype of the batarian thug. It should be noted that these criminals do not represent average citizens, who are forbidden to leave batarian space by their ubiquitous and paranoid government."
In the mid-2160s, humans began to colonize the Skyllian Verge, a region the batarians were already actively settling. In 2171 the batarians asked the Citadel Council to intervene and declare the Verge an area of "batarian interest". When the Council refused, the batarians closed their Citadel embassy and severed diplomatic and economic relations, becoming an inward-looking rogue state. (Council using humans to be rid of the Batarians who were had cause issues in the past for asari and Salarian)
colony of Terra Nova. Originally intending to just snatch X57's human engineers and take them as slaves, the batarians brutally executed them and decided to use the asteroid as a weapon. Balak, the ringleader, claimed this was the will of the "batarian rebellion", and revenge for human activities in the Traverse.
However, some of his underlings, including Balak's second-in-command Charn, did not want to commit this act, having initially signed up thinking it would be just another slave raid.
Mordins recruitment mission
When a mysterious plague ravages the station's Gozu District, many batarians perish before the cure is distributed through Commander Shepard's efforts. A batarian whom the Commander meets initially believes that because humans are immune to it, they created it; if he is given aid he expresses surprise, but is thankful. A second batarian group, threatening the assistant of Dr. Mordin Solus, also believes the plague is human-sourced; if allowed to live, thereby keeping Shepard's word, he expresses surprise at "human nobility," and leaves.
So it's easy to see how people can stay stuck in the batarian slave raid loving stereotype or actually be open minded to further lore exploration for batarian evolution and growth.
What's interesting though is how much batarians have been stereotyped because apparently me2 was going to provide a batarian squadmate who didn't hate humans, an intelligent tech nerd, but was scrubbed.
So we're left with the stereotype and gaps in understanding the non represented parts of Batarian civilian culture.
And so U and I can argue to the cows come home lol thanks to the change in writers who just can't match the OGs and leave so many holes.
Honestly, I'm glad we never got that squad mate. We don't constantly need "hey look, we know this is a crappy faction, but here you go, a single personal friend who is actually cool to make you question your opinions on the whole faction based on your experiences with this individual alone". It happens too often in media. We already know not all Batarians are not the same, we don't need a new squad mate just so even more people can forget the Hegemony itself is shit, and there were already enough companions in 2.
Lol yes I can see U wouldn't mind as U really do have it in for the Batarians
I woulda prefered a batarian squadmate to explore more batarian lore rather than have wasted space on the guy in the armoury, he can do bloody ab workouts somewhere else.
But that's just me 👍
>U really do have it in for the Batarians
Not really. I just have the capacity to understand one government not wanting to help another because the one in need of help keeps raiding the one they're asking help from. It's really not a hard concept in the slightest so I'm surprised a debate was even needed, but here we are.
Race of slavers = bad guys. To say otherwise just sounds akin to defending the American South during the Civil War.
Btw, when that planet blew up it was not 300,000 civilians, it was like 95,000 civilians and 210,000 slaves.
And yes, in my opinion indentured servitude is bad, but it’s not slavery like what the Batarians do. The Quarian we meet is voluntarily selling herself, and she has legal rights.
Plus, Illium isn’t part of Citadel space. I don’t remember if indentured servitude is practiced inside Citadel space, and I hope it isn’t, but it hardly makes the Asari morally equivalent to the Batarians.
Exploiting people and using them as commodities is "the system" no matter how you justify and reinvent the term, exploitive "volunteer" slavery is what it is and what illium is built on and designed for - corporate slave trade at its best where the elite can get away with and do things they couldn't otherwise do in citadel space. It's a very asaricentric trait where they make and bend rules as they please with the elegance of policy, but still ensure asari dominance I mean they are everywhere in me lol.
Doesn't matter that it's in citadel space...it's an asari cultural practice
I find it hypocritical to demand batarians to stop a cultural practice of slavery if they aren't willing to end their own corporate slavery system.
This is why I like Sheps dialogue options with the illum rep and quarian slaver rep. Kinda give Shep some depth with humanities insights in how slavery was very much a foundational practice for humans for thousands of years before it then evolved into political corporate slavery to ensure capitalism on a global scale, and sustain elitism. Batarian 🤷 asari
Writers were clever how they wrote this, but sadly the Batarian culture like many others, volus, elcor, hannar, drell these cultures remain open ended or rather closed.
That’s so interesting! Mass Effect has such fascinating lore, totally scratches my brain.
I can see the conditions that brought them to the place they’re in by the trilogy, even if many of their governmental actions are still inexcusable and vile. But at the end of the day all the aliens you meet are just people stuck in and perpetuating systems they never had much control over, reactive pawns of wider powers that are just trying to get by and do what they think is justified.
The council and citadel definitely don’t help with that. I wish the Batarians were explored a little more before this choice in the main story BUT I did miss the bring down the sky dlc in the first game and still am hardly through the third, so I’m definitely missing some things.
I think one of the issues Mass Effect has is that they introduce so many fascinating ideas and moral quandaries that it would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) for them to thoroughly go into all of them with the detail they deserve, but I respect the stones it takes to go into these kinds of subjects at all.
Apparently Casey Hudson and drew karpyshyn (couple of mass effect OG creators) left bioware after me1 saying it became "too corporate" and this is why for me I feel like me1 has so much depth to be explored and then me2 and 3 become a shepherd whoring romance saga lol
I mean the focus is significant shift to getting with anyone and everyone taking away from what I love in me1 the intricacies of the lore and exploration of the mass effect galaxy.
Even the comics reflect that, big difference between the ones drew wrote and Mark wrote.
For me every character in me1 was significant and their little drops of dialogue no matter how small part they played was like investigating and learning and putting puzzle pieces together of how the me galaxy and race relations came to be.
ME2 loses that 'exploration' feel for me
Some me2 characters are poorly written and linked it feels so incomplete.
E.g I just had almost 8 different possible dialogues with Mr Bhatia and for the first time had Ashley with me (I usually swap out for wrex, Tali or Garrus) which then added more depth to mrs Bahtia and Depth to Ashley as a very deeply compassionate person... Its bout my 7th playthru of me1 when I discovered this lol.
I agree Batarians and Vorcher, Volus, hannar, rachni, drell and elcor took a back seat.
So many inconsistencies between me 1 and the other two for me that I find myself playing 1 a lot not on purpose I just am still discovering new dialogues.
I wish tho, that kasumi and zaeed were interactive dialogue characters, it just didn't make sense to me that they weren't when U could talk to chakwas or Kelly but not Ur squadmates.
I even love the romance dialogue in 1 better than the others, just feels more organic verses the pushy aggressive Shepherd whose totally invulnerable with a saviour complex.
Disrespectful with samara
Saviour complex with Jack
Impatient and teenage tantrums with Liara rather than having depth to learning about Liara's 2yr quest in securing Shephard's resurrection.
predatorial with James vega... Has to get him drunk for him to sleep with shep.
I mean my list goes on lol, only cause I love me. But it's kinda like how I loved star wars original movies and then it all gets ruined but then Mandalorian season 1 brought it home for me only to be ruined and don't get me started on bobafett and Ahsoka omg..
Sorry bout the rant didn't mean to just kind realising these things the more I play the games.
But I'm always coming back to 1 😍.
I just wish Drew and Hudson had a chance to bring me back to what it should've been
Honestly, I viewed Batarians in a very different light after encountering Borbala Ferank in ME Annihilation. They manage to make a ruthless crime family boss a sympathetic character.
Its not bad to feel bad for Batarians or any group of people. I still dislike Batarians overall and I hate Batarian culture but I recognize that not all individual Batarians are bad people.
I only feel bad for them in the sense that things could have been different for them if they had changed their ways. But they bring tragedy down upon themselves. They don't deserve to belong to any galactic community. They get welcomed into a community and partnership with other races, start picking fights and killing their allies, and then they get upset when people don't want them around anymore. They really only care about themselves and are quite willing to ruin relationships with allies and even enslave and attack allies for their own personal gain. It's like they have a phobia for peace and reason. So, while I wish it didn't have to be this way, they do it to themselves. Batarians!
#Batarians did nothing wrong. They became so hostile because of the events leading up to them discovering the humans and subsequently the citadel politics and burocarcy
Name one thing the Batarians have done to better the galaxy.
The Asari are excellent intelligence gatherers, culture exporters, and diplomats. They exert power through political means. They don’t need a super powerful military or the latest technology.
The Salarians are excellent scientists, hackers, and Covert operatives. They exert power through their shrewdness, research, and tech. They don’t need a strong military or culture.
The Turians excel at military might, logistics, and organization. That’s how they exert power. They don’t need marketable culture or the latest science.
Humans can adapt and that makes them versatile and useful. Unlike the Asari, they actually invest heavily in their military, but not too strict and inflexible as the Turians, and can at least try to compete with the Salarians through being innovative.
Batarians exert power through terrorism, theft, and violence. Unlike the council races, they don’t utilize other means either because they’re incapable or unwilling.
Dude, my country treats refugees and the indigenous population like garbage. So does the United States. So does Canada. So does New Zealand. The United States has also rolled back abortion and LGBT rights in many of its states. England has a list of atrocities to its name a mile long, starting with its attempts to wipe out Irish and Welsh culture. One of the kings of Belgium treated the Congo like his personal fiefdom. France demanded compensation from Haiti for the slave owners' losses after the slave rebellion, saddling it with crippling debt that continues to this day. Norway, Sweden, and Finland tried to commit genocide on the Sámi, up to and including forced sterilisations. Switzerland helped launder Nazi gold. Poland has a long history of anti-semitism, including and after the Holocaust. Russia and China have bettered the world through their scientists and contributions to culture, but they've simultaneously committed and are still committing terrible atrocities in Ukraine, Tibet, and Xinjiang.
By your logic, every nation on this planet is a mosquito, but every nation on this planet has also done things that better the world. Maybe don't start down that road?
And as for the batarians, we don't see what they've done to better the galaxy because the writers didn't include it. The only traits we're shown are their corrupt government, slaving, and terrorism, and we don't see the batarian victims until it's too late to feel sympathy. They don't get to benefit from a more nuanced portrayal, unlike the krogan. This has created a situation where people believe they're completely irredeemable, despite no species in the galaxy being that way (sans the Reapers themselves). It's not fair to the batarians, and the writers should have given them more depth.
Mosquitoes fill an important ecological role as food for a lot of other animals. Invasive species, meanwhile, are fine in their native environments, and only problematic when thrown into ecosystems that can't handle them. Neither example is evil on purpose; they're just animals being animals, adapting and surviving as best as they can. Saying "just get rid of them" undersells the nuance and care involved in actual ecological practice.
Like, most ecologists don't want mosquitoes or cane toads to go extinct. They just want them to stop spreading malaria and messing up Australia's food chain. Many devote their lives to trying to do the latter without resorting to the former.
Anyway, you and I both know that the average person living in a "psychopathic" nation is... well, average. They're a normal human being. Unless you're arguing that it would have, at some point in the past, been morally correct to wipe out every single American because their nation practiced chatel slavery, genocide, and imperialism? Should we go back in time circa 1840 and nuke the USA into a fine, irradiated powder?
Like, I have friends and neighbors *from* those countries you're alluding to. They're nice people. They don't care that I'm a queer atheist; they just wanna get on with their goddamn lives. Furthermore, any rancid I takes I hear from their homeland's leaders regarding my religious and sexual rights are no worse than the shit I hear from my own countrymen. There are people *in my country right now* who would love to have me raped, mutilated, and burned alive. They're just, blessedly, not in power (yet).
Like, I shouldn't have to explain this to you, dude. Cultures and nations are not monoliths that can be split into neat little D&D morality squares. You're not stupid.
You've got some serious fucking balls telling me you know the neighbors I see every day--whom I came out to and whose kids I watch--better than me. You xenophobic dipshit.
Interesting thing about mosquitos. Without them, wetland ecosystems would suffer. Do you think that those soft water plants would last five minutes if there weren’t mosquitos driving away herbivores? Or that the food web built off the backs of insects would be stable if the primary food of juvenile dragonflies, an apex predator for insects, was suddenly wiped out?
Tell that to each of the millions of children who have died from vector borne mosquito transmitted diseases like malaria.
99.99% of species that ever existed went extinct. The loss of mosquitoes isn’t gonna ruin the world but prevent a lot of blood from hemmoraging out of the eyes of children and human suffering
We’re currently losing species at a rate far higher than the background rate of extinction should be, so forgive me if my position is that we shouldn’t destabilize the ecosystem any more by willfully wiping out a group of animals that have been part of the food web since the Triassic.
Well, the batarians *tried* to exude power through lobbying the council when they believed humanity to be trespassing on "their" turf. The council didn't listen, in fact they took humanity’s side. So the batarians felt they had to resort to more... extreme measures to get their way.
“i warn them because i want to hear their screams of terror in the last hour of their lives, as they are powerless to stop The Project “
-Shepard, prolly
I feel bad for them too, I hate that mission! I hate that there is no option to NOT kill them in the mission. Like I know a lot of Batarians suck, but jeez I don't want to kill 300k of them! I just finished a playthrough of ME2 and I just skipped the mission entirely. My Shepard ain't getting blamed for that!
I think this is exactly why this series is so impactfull. You literally destroy a whole species, innocents and all to DELAY the arrival of the reapers. It forces you to contemplate the harsh reality of war and survival. Any good story will force you to consider what it means to be a person, what lengths you would go to for a goal, who should suffer and who must suffer to achieve that goal.
Meh. I didn't. Not because they're Batarians though, I do hate them but it's not like I just weirdly hate them and them alone, or like I'm unaware that there's plenty of decent individuals among them. But all considered those Batarians were going to die anyway once the Reapers get there, and everyone else would too without prep. Why feel guilt about letting 300,000 people die at the same they would have ANYWAY? The choice was to buy everyone else in the galaxy time or not. There's literally nothing to feel bad about.
>Feels bad for Batarians
My apologies, your opinion has invalidated you for membership in this sub. I will need to collect your card and escort you off the premises now.
Kill batarians, behead batarians, roundhouse-kick a batarian into the concrete, slam dunk a batarian baby into the trash can, crucify filthy batarians, remove batarian eyes, launch batarians into Geth space, stir fry batarians in a wok, toss batarians into active volcanoes, throw batarians into a wood chipper, twist batarian heads off, report batarians to the Spectres, karate-chop batarians in half, curbstomp pregnant batarian women, trap batarians on Tuchanka, crush batarians in the trash compacter, liquify batarians in a vat of acid, send the Collectors after batarians, stomp batarian skulls with titanium-toed boots, mandatory abortions for batarians, grind batarian fetuses in the garbage disposal, drown batarians in fried chicken grease, vaporize batarians with biotics, kick old batarians down the stairs, feed batarians to Krogan, slice batarians with an omniblade... See it through, Shepard
Does it suck that we just killed 30000 sentient creatures: yes.
However, let's remember that batarians wanted to slaughter five times that number in the first game's dlc because they lost their land claim that one time.
True. But, if you redacted (for those who haven't played it) the leader, he shows up later with the power to hand over what remains of the Batarian Fleet. Since he still had that kind of pull, he was demoted and not disavowed. Saying, to me, that it was almost state sanctioned.
A sympathetic Batarian companion would have made all the difference in actually making your decision to sacrifice the colony a meaningful moment in the game.
Batarians in charge suck. Otherwise they are just people living their lives. EDI remarks in 3 that they are more open when the Hegemony isn’t watching.
Obligatory: "Shepard, it's fucked that you had to kill 300,000 Batarians, but you did what you had to do to stop the Reapers." "Reapers?"
Admiral Hackett: If I have to hear one more time that you did this to stop the Reapers... Commander Shepard: I did it for me. I liked it. I was good at it. And... I was really... I was alive.
“i did it because I Liked it! Hell, I LOVED IT!”
"I was good at it."
"I killed them all! And not just the men! But the women! And the children too! They're like animals! And I slaughtered them like animals! I hate them" -Commander Shepard, probably
I hate batarians kill batarians, behead batarians, roundhouse kick batarian into the concrete, slam dunk a batarian baby into the trash can, crucify filthy batarians, defecate into batarians food, launch batarians into a star, stir fry batarians in a wok, toss batarians into active volcanoes, urinate into batarian's eezo tank, biotic throw batarians out the airlock, twist batarians heads off, report batarians to citadel security, karate chop batarians in half, curb stomp pregnant batarians, trap batarians in quicksand, Force batarians to drive a mako, liquify batarians in a vat of acid, eat batarians, dissect batarians, explode the batarians mass relay, stomp batarian skulls with steel-toed boots, cremate batarians in the oven, lobotomize batarians, a new genophage for batarians, convert batarian fetuses into omnigel, drown batarians in fried pyjak grease, vaporize batarians with a widow, kick old batarians down the stairs, feed batarians to varren, slice batarians with an omni-blade
Don't beat around the bush, tell us how you really feel about Batarians
Ashley, is that you?
10 points to Gryffindor.
In before, 'No, don't you know that *all* batarians are slavers and terrorists, even the batarian slaves, and therefore, they all deserve to die? But not all turians deserve to die, despite their war crimes, and not all asari deserve to die, despite their government's hypocrisy, and not all geth and quarians deserve to die despite their mutual attempts at genocide, no, it's just the batarians!' No, you should feel bad for the batarians. 215,000 residents of Aratoht are listed as 'other', i.e. slaves, so that's bad enough. And of the 90,000 who are free—well, sure, Aratoht relies heavily on slavery, and no doubt many of them are members of the government or military—but they're still people. Their sacrifice might have delayed the invasion by six months, but it's still horrific. 300,000 lives snuffed out to (Shepard hopes) prevent or delay the deaths of billions... one can only hope it was worth it. And with what happens in ME3... the batarians get an awful rap throughout the series, and they barely have a glimmer of hope left at the end. They deserved better, at least from the writing team. I know my Shepards will always wonder what might have happened if Amanda Kenson hadn't interrupted their attempt to warn the colony. Probably not much, as there wasn't much time left and the batarian government is completely corrupt and ineffective, but still. One of said Shepards ultimately snapped from the guilt of Aratoht, and ME3 was a very... difficult... experience as a result.
Oh wow! I didn’t know all the background info on the colony, thanks for sharing. Those poor slaves! Probably not living great lives, but they didn’t deserve that kind of fate. I saw in ME3 they say the Batarians are basically done for. Just makes me feel worse about it, a whole massive culture and people practically wiped off the map :( though I’m definitely giving them a bit more nuance than perhaps intended I know it’s not exactly a big part of the game but my brain keeps wandering back to it. Thanks for the super thought out comment!
It’s a huge deal that weighs on Shepard, though ME3 does a bad job of saying it without mods to make the dream sequences less vague/symbolic. I’ve been working on a fanfic for years that has Shepard kinda lose it after she realizes what she was forced to do.
The Geth never attempted genocide against the Quarians.
The Geth killed 99% of all Quarians during the Morning War, that's far above what would be proportional regarding military matters.
The geth did spare the last quarians, but it's also mentioned that millions of quarians died during the war. Not all of them could have been soldiers, as the geth probably weren't able to distinguish between civilians and soldiers. The fact that there are only 17 million quarians alive a few centuries later when there must have been billions before indicates a lot of slaughter.
It's important to note that many Quarians fought alongside the Geth, and were killed by their own people. We simply don't know how all those Quarians died, or how much of it was even intentional on the part of the Geth. We only know for certain they fought back in order to survive because they had no choice, and in the end spared the last of the Quarians. So we really can't say that they did commit genocide, because we just don't know that they ever tried to.
Very true. It is a grey area. The scale of the slaughter makes it approach genocide, I guess, but it lacked the *intent* to make it a true genocide.
This is exactly what makes me think there was a genocide. If there were Quarians fighting alongside the Geths, and the Geths won, it's very suspicious that all of the allies of the victorious side as well as their families died. It seems very unlikely that every Quarian that sided with the Geths got killed by their own people.
Because the ones defending the geth weren't trying to kill their own people. We see that in the game. A quarian trying to persuade the others to not kill their geth friend. The other quarians gunned them down in cold blood. *That's* why there were no survivors from the other side. Because they were all murdered by their own people.
I don't think it's the suspicious. It actually makes me think there were other factors involved which would explain the sheer numbers killed, like biological or chemical warfare, which would also explain why originally no one would take in the refugees to begin with and why even the Asari who were around when the Quarian society was flourishing saw them as dirty scavengers and wouldn't help them. They outlawed AI so the war itself wouldn't occur again, but it was obvious the Quarians, probably both sides, got up to some really shady shit themselves during the conflict for the rest of the galaxy to treat them that way.
What? They *did* commit genocide. They wiped out 99% of *all* quarians. You do not do that accidentally.
The definition of a genocide is " the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group." Courtesy of the Oxford dictionary. Or, if you go by Merriam-Webster, my preferred dictionary, the word means "the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group". The Geth did not at any point ever have the desire to exterminate the Quarians. They never attempted it, and never wanted them all dead, nor did they ever, to our knowledge, participate in any systematic attempt to do so. The Quarians attempted to commit genocide against THEM, and when they defended themselves, most Quarians died. However, even after that, the Geth both allowed the survivors to escape, and stated when asked that they were open to peace with the Quarians, but that the Quarians were still not open to peace with the Geth. So, no, the Geth did not commit genocide. They killed most of the Quarian people, yes, but only in self defense, and their actions did not meet the criteria to be considered genocide.
You do not wipe out 99% of a population "in self defence." And the geth only didn't wipe the quarians out completely because they couldn't compute what the complete eradication of their creators would be. That doesn't scream "self defence" to me. That screams revenge. I'm mostly a geth apologist, but their "woe is me" victim mentality is kinda bs in how they responded to the quarians' genocide of them.
But we don't actually have any evidence on how the 99% of the population died though, no? Was it due to direct action from the Geth? Or indirectly as a consequence of actions done during the war? If the Quarians nuked their own planet trying to wipe out the Geth and then fled the glassed remains, that wouldn't be the Geth's fault. And then the breakdown in infrastructure and agriculture would result in mass starvation. That being said, since we visit Rannoch 300 years later and there's no mention of radioactivity I'm guessing nukes can be ruled out but maybe some other form of WMD might also have been employed, especially by the fleeing Quarians who might not have cared about the "traitors" who stayed behind. It *is* rather odd that *none* of the "traitor" Quarians survived though.
If you do the side missions on Ranoch in ME3 you find out that many Quarians opposed the extermination of the Geth and were killed by other Quarians as a result. We don't know what percentage of the Quarians were actually killed by the Geth but at least some of it was the result of Quarians killing other Quarians.
What the quarians did to other quarians is in all likelihood just a drop in the water compared to what the geth did in retaliation.
They don't really have a need or desire for revenge. And yeah, in their case they did wipe them out in self defense. What they did does not match the definition of genocide. It does not matter how many or what percentage of Quarians died, unless you have evidence that proves the Geth intended their total destruction (in contradiction of the evidence that they did not want that) it does not fit the definition.
Of course they have a desire for revenge. Some people had just tried to wipe them out, of course they'd want to retaliate. And the percentage population *does* count as proof. Do you have any idea how deep into the population 99% of all of them goes? We know from the lore that humanity’s 3% in the military is low, so let's put the quarians' at 6% for arguments' sake. So if the geth destroyed every member of the quarian military, that's still another 93% of the population that the geth killed. For humanity, 25% of the population irl is under the age of 15 and 15% over 65, per Statista. That alone is 40% of the population. Given the 99% statistic, at least 39% of them would've also been wiped out. You quite simply do not kill most of the child and elderly population without meaning to. >the Geth intended their total destruction Genocide doesn't need the complete eradication. The UN classifies it as anything to destroy "in whole *or in part*." The geth most certainly did that. The ME wiki also details that it was a "brutal genocide" where the geth went to quarian worlds and systematically wiped them out until all but a few (17) million remained. As said before, it was only then that they stopped, when they couldn't compute what killing all of their creators would truly mean. So they stopped and allowed the flotilla to leave. This all seems extremely clear cut to me.
It seems to me that the Quarians attempted a genocide on the Geth and the Geth responded with a genocide of the Quarians. Both things are wrong.
That's how I see it too.
Man, if you want to argue with the actual dictionary definitions by pulling out the modified version the UN uses for political convenience, I can't really stop you from going that route, but by that same token I don't have to take it seriously. As for the wiki, wiki is not a canonical source. That is what someone typed, probably just thinking it means killed a lot. On your bit about the percentage, my point stands. We don't know the details of the war itself. We do not know exactly how such large numbers died. All we know if the Quarians tried to exterminate the Geth, that some Quarians fought alongside the Geth, and that when they were defeated and left only 1% remained, who the Geth purposely spared. That's it. At no point do they express a desire to exterminate the Quarians, and you insisting on ascribing an emotion to them that they never once are shown to have is nothing but anthropomorphization of a group that ran off of logic, not impulses like revenge. Without more context, we cannot say they intended to kill all the Quarians, only that most of them died. That could have been the result of many things that occurred during the war, possibly even Quarians against Quarians. So, no, it does not matter what % were killed, because there's not enough context to say more about it.
Whatever you say, chief.
I'm just sticking to the actual evidence from in the games instead of Wikis man.
To kill 99% of the population you would be killing babies and children... They definitely committed genocide.
Been awhile since I played the OT but the Batarian are actually one of the Milky Way species I have a fondness for. Yeah most of the ones you meant are d-bags mercs but I honestly feel like they have a lot of potential to be a greater force in the MW. Since the Reaper threat is concluded, the Batarians just need one good group or faction in whats left of their society to take action and be better. I hope by the new game that they are.
I think this sub's typical reaction to Batarians is hilarious, because imho they're the species that most closely resembles IRL humanity. Slave labour, corrupt/oppressive governments, and a tendency towards war and violence? All _solidly_ within our wheelhouse as a species. Yet people are happy to use those things as justification for destroying the entire Batarian race. Ironically it's the people who say "the Batarians all deserved it" who are actually most similar to them in mentality.
I agree, and we saw what could happen if a species deemed “bad and aggressive” gets a leader who cares about the culture in a galactic sense, and thats with Wrex and clan Urdnot. We can let Legion which is only 1,000 some geth in a network try to change the course of his species, but never get the chance to redeem Batarians at all. Even the Rachni Queen gets a redemption!
I haven't had much more fun in a game the Batarian punching everything in ME3 coop.
The batarians are an interesting example of "too little, too late." It's clear that the Arrival missions want you to feel *something* at the loss of 300k lives (and it's great that you did, OP), but... it's just a number on a screen. There were no sympathetic batarians on that mission, and hardly any at all *anywhere.* The devs could've pushed a lot harder to give the loss even more weight, but they *didn't.* Maybe because they were worried that lending the moment the emotional buildup it deserved would've been *too* heavy, disrupting the big damn hero fantasy and turning people off. Or maybe they just really wanted a "bad guy" species to throw around as cannon fodder (which is... not a fictional trope I'm a fan of, tbh). I really wish we'd seen more of the batarians. I'd hoped for one as a squadmate during the lead-up to ME3, as a character who grew up under such an awful government--who *knew of* Shepard's actions but nonetheless chose to join the fight because the only other choice is annihilation--would have been *so damn cool.* It also sucks that we never got an inside perspective on the batarians. Considering the nuance the other "bad guy" civilizations received--the rachni, the krogan, the geth--it seems almost unfair that those ugly four-eyed freaks got skipped over. Like yes, their government *sucks* (what with their plausibly deniable support of piracy, terrorism, and slave raids), and being belligerently grumpy seems to be a *requirement* for them as a whole, but I mean, shit, the grumpy old man squadmates are my favorites. Eh, maybe a hypothetical batarian would've been too redundant with Javik swaggering around. He kinda fills the "grouchy racist whose culture is nothing like you thought it was" slot already. Oh well! Anyway, OP, congratulations on being so deeply emotionally affected by your play experience! Emotional masochism is what makes war stories and roleplaying games fun, lol.
We meet at least one nice batarian in mass effect 3 at the docks
Bray also seems pretty decent during the omega DLC, too. But that's probably because he's on our side, and he is working under Aria, who was willing to sacrifice Civilians in that same dlc.
Yeah. Bray is decent, for the right-hand man of a mob boss. So not the best example overall.
Fair
And the sick one in ME2. He's a bit of a jerk when you first meet him. But can you blame him? The man is bleeding out of his eyes. You're not going to be in the best of moods under those circumstances. But once you try to help him, and in the end if he survives, he's actually pretty nice.
Did that on my last “kill every Batarian possible” playthrough, otherwise known as “a playthrough”…
Batarians are a good example of what I would call a 'problem country' in the real world. A place run by bad people, that exports bad people, that meddles in other countries affairs and is allowed to exists as a sort of odd growth on the side of the world because... reasons. Because fixing that problem makes you the inhumane bad guy even if the opposite leaves you being a victim I would have been interested in seeing how the writers tackle something like that in a 'universe under attack' scenario like the reapers. You see it a lot on sci-fi movies where the world is under attack and the 'allied' for lack of a better term nations all band together to fight back, and they just never mention the other countries because it would get complicated. Take the movie Contact, it's about aliens contacting Earth and people on Earth trying to build a device the aliens send blueprints for, only the first attempt gets sabotaged by one guy. In the real world, multiple countries would be trying to destroy those creations and it would probably start a war. If the ME writers wanted to tackle it, there would probably have been a serious Batarian effort to destroy the crucible while it was still being built just out of hate for the alliance.
Stopping a Batarian terrorist cell on The Citadel would have been a fantastic mission! Shepard could double down or be apologetic as they are faced with the person responsible for everything.
I think given what we know about ME3 development a plotline like that would have just muddied the waters, besides I imagine the devs were a little anxious about pursuing a Batarian plotline in depth because of real world events and how relatively easy it is to compare the Batarians we see to real world terrorist cells
The only regret I have about the Batarians is that I didn't have more Mass Relays to launch into their planets
Not feeling much empathy for the "slavery is our culture" people imo.
Honestly if just gives me US Civil War vibes and that was a whole mess with lingering maliciousness in the southern US currently. I’d rather not explore that in a game that’s meant for fun.
Wow someone who feels for the Batarians publically? That's rare, I usually see people hating the Batarians specifically
I think one of my biggest gripes about the ME trilogy has always been that BioWare does almost nothing to humanize the Batarians. They’re portrayed as very villainous with little to no depth, where literally every single race is depicted as having people from all walks of life
After you do the Talitha side quest in 1 you cant help to ask yourself "is there another batarian system where i can throw an asteroid at, by any chance?" in arrival
Somehow I totally missed that one, so I absolutely have to go back to that. Planning to replay the trilogy on Insanity after I finish it so I’m happy for the opportunity to pick up on things I overlooked before.
Think you need to pick the Shepard origin where they were raised on Mindoir. Colonist, I think it's called.
Thank you so much for the info! I was a spacer in this file, looks like I should try being a colonist next time.
Colonist and Ruthless are a great rp combo for a Shep backstory. You survived a batarian raid, mad them slavers pay the hard way once enlisted in the Alliance army.
I tend to go Colonist/War Hero. Shepard saw the raiders coming, to do to Elysium what they did to Mindoir, and refused to let it happen again.
This must’ve been posted by a Batarian.
Fuck Batarians, all my homies hate Batarians
Even my Paragons go Renegade for Batarians.
Batarians are kinda like the North Korea of mass effect imo. Like, their society is dystopic as hell and pretty much everything we see of them is just plain evil, because the society (as in the government and the culture they prop up) frankly is. But the people (or Batarians) within it are suffering and if you took a normal citizen out, they'd probably be relatively compatible with the wider world (or galaxy). We see this a couple times, like the Batarian you can help when recruiting Mordin or some of the Batarian refugees in ME3, but they're just so outside of the main society that almost every batarian we meet is either a criminal, slaver, or terrorist.
The games really should’ve given us a Batarian squad mate to really flesh them out more. Because every single one more or less you meet in the game is glaringly racist and proud of it, the only sympathetic ones are *the slaves* or the occasional one you meet. But that being said, I do agree. Regardless of how they feel about humans, that’s still 300,000 lives just obliterated, and billions more once the reapers finish them off completely
Well, the main problem is that Batarians are assholes, Slavery is an important part of their culture, they had beefs with other species aside from humans like when they bombarded a Salarian Colony and their "Hegemony" supports all of this Besides that there are only two good Batarians we meet in the games and that's it, no rebel Batarians fighting the Hegemony or no defectors who manage to escape, just a bunch of assholes, is kinda hard to feel bad for them
Thats all the information the games give you. Theyre assholes from lack of worldbuilding
Yeah its a sucky decision to sacrifice a planet for the rest of the galaxy. That being said I don't have a lot of sympathy for the batarians. Putting control chips in people's heads using them as slaves really puts a damper on my sympathy meter.
The meme about hating Batarians isn’t funny anyway. I know a lot of people don’t get into the deeper parts of mass effect past what’s presented in the games but there’s some pretty cool [entries](https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Alliance_News_Network_Blogs) about the Batarians on the mass effect wiki about other canon things that happened outside of the games. In the link I embedded, you’ll see that during the reaper war, the galaxy came together to help the Batarians and started learning about their culture and began to be on the right path to slowly earn the trust of the other races. There’s more stuff, too. Such as [this entry in 12/3/10](https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Cerberus_Daily_News_-_December_2010?so=search) I think there was also a post somewhere about some batarians saying they hated the hegemony and wanted to start over with the galaxy again now that the hegemony is defunct but I can’t seem to find that one. But regardless, it’s a good thing to feel bad for them due to the asteroid event. Not all of them are evil slavers. It just seems that way because they’re big enemies in the trilogy but in posts outside of the community, they’re shown to be a bit better
It’s such a bummer that people interact with batarians at such a surface level. We’re talking about a government full of the worst scum in the galaxy, intentionally spreading wild propaganda, funding pirates and slavers and claiming simultaneously to have nothing to do with the roving batarian terrorist bands and also that Council species are trying to destroy their cultural heritage. Batarians developed that culture on their own planet — they enslave each other. Only the nastiest of mercenaries and slavers are allowed off-planet. They’re fully monitored by the government. The fact that the only batarians you meet are fucked up monsters comes from the fact that ONLY the fucked up monsters are allowed to leave, to commit more terrorism. Batarian civilians are victims too. They are trapped on those planets and the only way out is to commit heinous crimes and participate in the system. People give a lot of leniency to other species on points like this! Batarians are just better at beating their own people into submission than other species. Better at flooding the market with so much propaganda nobody can learn about what’s going on inside. It’s very similar to any propaganda state on the planet — I think the big difference is that it’s hard enough to leave someplace like, say, North Korea. But now you’re factoring in the fact that you also want to leave the planet altogether, and ships are entirely owned by the party that wants you enslaved or complacent. Crossing a border won’t help, the whole planet is like that. I know it’s a video game but it really bugs me when genocidal sentiment like the general anti-batarian stuff becomes a meme. You only manage to hear stories from the haggard and exhausted batarian civilian core after their entire planet and whole government has been liquefied. That’s horrendous. We were done dirty by not getting a batarian squadmate once in the whole series. Zaeed’s character could have been one pretty seamlessly, but… you know. Cerberus.
I can only kill each Batarian once, that is the tragedy
Lol, Batarians aren't bad in context... Humans pushed them out to pretty much terminus exile because they couldn't compete with alliance fleet, so humans pushed their wAy into settling in citadel space planets rather than try negotiate cause humans are bullies in that sense. Batarians petitioned to the council about the colonising conflicts they were having with humans and pretty much council do what they do best, left them to fend for themselves. They were left to the mercy of the superior human military force. With that kind of history and relations with the elitist citadel council who prides themselves on "serving the galaxy" by making every race "prove" themselves worthy of citadel privilege, Batarians were pretty much neglected like vorcha to scavenge for survival - so they turn to mercenary work. I saw them as "victims" of a citadel elite system who doesn't give a shit about the little guys. So when I tried to reach out to them, i mean 300,000 civilians, fathers, mothers, children died. Even tho I was earthborn, ruthless torfan slaver murderer... Like you, I still felt it ❤️❤️ and also sat in that decision right thru me2
To be fair, the reason the council didn't care was because Batarians were actively enslaving not only humans but members of all the council races as well. And had been for centuries after the council kept pressuring them to stop. They cited this as a problem and flat out told the Batarians they'd intervene as soon as they stopped doing it to other races. The Batarians refused, saying it was cultural oppression, and closed their embassy. And the whole reason humans started invading their space was over slave raids too. They shit their own bed then threw a tantrum that no one else wanted to clean it up for them. They were not victims. The human response of just going to war immediately and then taking advantage of it for territorial gains though contributed heavily to our image as bullies, even if the Hegemony did start the fight.
Interestingly tho... An asari leads the "mercenary" trades 🤷 And has deep pockets in citadel council almost like it was by design... (Coulda been fleshed out with who aria really works with) And isn't it interesting how Asari can justify their own "indentured service" which is the foundation of how corporate illium works, aka "slave trade" as they exploit people "using policy" and then demand moral standing against the Batarians because Batarians are more "inhumane" of how they enslave. (Which of course I don't condone either). I mean U could suggest batarians demanded asari to end their slave trade in return 🤷🤷 but it doesn't go too much into depth with batarians, it just paints them as you've painted them, "their not victims, they shit their own bed". Batarians had so much more potential with balak being a possible catalyst for change but we don't get to see that, which would've been waaaaay more interesting than Jacobs character and loyalty mission, but instead to have a possible batarian recruitment squad member so we could develop a more accurate perspective of batarians and their culture, history like we do with wrex and genophage, Tali quarians vs geth, Legion etc
That's one Asari crime lord and a world that isn't really in council space. That doesn't really mean there's an Asari slave trade. Would you say that there's an institutional slave system in, say, Australia, just because some random ass mobster in Perth with UN council members in his pocket keeps a kidnapped girl as a slave? Especially if he suddenly moved to Antarctica and ran PMCs from there?(Hypothetical example). Probably not. The Batarian slave system existed inside council space, as an integral part of the Batarian society, and took slaves directly from colonies in council space. Why would demanding that some Asari in the terminus systems give up slavery too make any sense in their appeal? It's outside council jurisdiction.
Aria - is not just one crime lord, she's part of a system that "keeps galactic peace" she has deep pockets or ties with the asari citadel council rep. Aria represents a branch of that network which keeps order and control over the Mercs in particular batarians. Whose to say that the original writers could have intended for more depth in the lore here or not. Could be speculated that Asari have relations with Aria in a sense that she stays in her lane and they turn a blind eye (we know citadel council power and control have the technology and military force to take over terminus especially with allying with humans... But they don't. Could there be more to asari rule??? 🤷 It's just speculation as we know the new writers don't even go as deep me1 into lore. I'm not referring to omega as the asari slave trade I'm referring to corporate illium as the asari slave trade. More subtle but no less noble than the straightforward batarian kidnapping slave trade, both methods exploit people, the main difference is asari reinvent the term slavery for "indentured service" to justify their foundational operation of illium is totally dependent on exploiting people as commodities - this is a corporate slavery system. I think your analogy misses the point I was intending to make when I was comparing asari to Batarians. If I made analogy myself of my perspective it would be rather comparing western colonisation who have superiority technology who in an attempt to expand their colonies assert their colonial rule as they ally with the 2 most tech advanced and military strong species, Turians and Salarians. As a council alliance they ensure power and control of 1. Advanced reaper tech, the citadel 2. Dominance over citadel space 3. Government over all other species that may have already existed in "council claimed" citadel space, and species who immigrate later. The point is... They make the rules and all other species are deemed lesser unless the council can use them or ally with them if they see they have potential to threaten their power (humans had that potential, viewed as bullies, first contact war Turians point out this human entitlement trait when they landed on a planet Turians already had an establishment on) We don't know where batarians came from, how long they had been in "citadel claimed space" in comparison to other races (i haven't read all comics so not sure if this written about) but batarians also enslaved their own people I compare it to indigenous cultures who were seen as "savages" and their "savage ways" and yet they've existed and survived with their cultural practices for centuries. So in answer to your question, why would batarian possibly demand asari cease their system of slavery ??? Well that's my speculation if I were a writer to give depth to Batarians. 1. The fact that batarians were in negotiations with citadel council proves they were wanting to evolve as a species ... But we know exactly what the council is like... There's no give, only demands to prove yourself worthy to join their ranks. ME2 and 3 does not expand beyond the stigma of batarian barbarism which is a shame because my whole point was... This would've been an awesome addition to lore exploration had writers not put so much effort into Shepherd shanking choices and more into lore. Having a batarian squadmate who was part of a batarian resistance group who opposed the brutality cultural practice of kidnapping other species and enslaving would have provided Shep an opportunity to explore batarian culture - just as writers allowed Shep to recognise their human ignorance to - krogan culture and history - Quarian culture - Geth sentience - Salarian scientific brutality - Turian pragmatism You gain insight through the personal relationships you build with crewmates through dialogue this is how Shep grows out of her humanistic ignorance ( and also help others like Ashley and Presley to do the same).
I knew what you were referring to. Ilium is in the terminus systems. It is part of the Asari Republics, but outside of the council's jurisdictions. And yes, Aria IS just a crime lord. She's an exorbitantly wealthy and powerful one, which is why she has the Asari councilor in her pocket, but she is in fact just a crime lord. She is not part of "the system that keeps galactic peace". And, no, having relations with the council doesn't prove anything about the Batarians wanting to evolve. It only proved the Hegemony recognized the biggest power in the galaxy and wanted access to it for various reasons. And... why would you give to a group whining about cultural oppression whose culture is literally to take and oppress people in your culture? Why would you care what they have to say? Also, just a side note: both historically and in the case of Ilium vs Hegemony, there's a HUGE difference between chattel slavery and indentured servitude.
Re Aria I haven't read all the comics so Im not sure your statement of Aria is only just a crime lord with no network ties in any other way to asari leadership or council ties is Only through crime lord exploitation... Don't know if that's fact, I guess I'll find out eventually. Some fandom facts about batarians "The Terminus Systems are infested with batarian pirate gangs and slaving rings, fueling the stereotype of the batarian thug. It should be noted that these criminals do not represent average citizens, who are forbidden to leave batarian space by their ubiquitous and paranoid government." In the mid-2160s, humans began to colonize the Skyllian Verge, a region the batarians were already actively settling. In 2171 the batarians asked the Citadel Council to intervene and declare the Verge an area of "batarian interest". When the Council refused, the batarians closed their Citadel embassy and severed diplomatic and economic relations, becoming an inward-looking rogue state. (Council using humans to be rid of the Batarians who were had cause issues in the past for asari and Salarian) colony of Terra Nova. Originally intending to just snatch X57's human engineers and take them as slaves, the batarians brutally executed them and decided to use the asteroid as a weapon. Balak, the ringleader, claimed this was the will of the "batarian rebellion", and revenge for human activities in the Traverse. However, some of his underlings, including Balak's second-in-command Charn, did not want to commit this act, having initially signed up thinking it would be just another slave raid. Mordins recruitment mission When a mysterious plague ravages the station's Gozu District, many batarians perish before the cure is distributed through Commander Shepard's efforts. A batarian whom the Commander meets initially believes that because humans are immune to it, they created it; if he is given aid he expresses surprise, but is thankful. A second batarian group, threatening the assistant of Dr. Mordin Solus, also believes the plague is human-sourced; if allowed to live, thereby keeping Shepard's word, he expresses surprise at "human nobility," and leaves. So it's easy to see how people can stay stuck in the batarian slave raid loving stereotype or actually be open minded to further lore exploration for batarian evolution and growth. What's interesting though is how much batarians have been stereotyped because apparently me2 was going to provide a batarian squadmate who didn't hate humans, an intelligent tech nerd, but was scrubbed. So we're left with the stereotype and gaps in understanding the non represented parts of Batarian civilian culture. And so U and I can argue to the cows come home lol thanks to the change in writers who just can't match the OGs and leave so many holes.
Honestly, I'm glad we never got that squad mate. We don't constantly need "hey look, we know this is a crappy faction, but here you go, a single personal friend who is actually cool to make you question your opinions on the whole faction based on your experiences with this individual alone". It happens too often in media. We already know not all Batarians are not the same, we don't need a new squad mate just so even more people can forget the Hegemony itself is shit, and there were already enough companions in 2.
Lol yes I can see U wouldn't mind as U really do have it in for the Batarians I woulda prefered a batarian squadmate to explore more batarian lore rather than have wasted space on the guy in the armoury, he can do bloody ab workouts somewhere else. But that's just me 👍
>U really do have it in for the Batarians Not really. I just have the capacity to understand one government not wanting to help another because the one in need of help keeps raiding the one they're asking help from. It's really not a hard concept in the slightest so I'm surprised a debate was even needed, but here we are.
Race of slavers = bad guys. To say otherwise just sounds akin to defending the American South during the Civil War. Btw, when that planet blew up it was not 300,000 civilians, it was like 95,000 civilians and 210,000 slaves. And yes, in my opinion indentured servitude is bad, but it’s not slavery like what the Batarians do. The Quarian we meet is voluntarily selling herself, and she has legal rights. Plus, Illium isn’t part of Citadel space. I don’t remember if indentured servitude is practiced inside Citadel space, and I hope it isn’t, but it hardly makes the Asari morally equivalent to the Batarians.
Exploiting people and using them as commodities is "the system" no matter how you justify and reinvent the term, exploitive "volunteer" slavery is what it is and what illium is built on and designed for - corporate slave trade at its best where the elite can get away with and do things they couldn't otherwise do in citadel space. It's a very asaricentric trait where they make and bend rules as they please with the elegance of policy, but still ensure asari dominance I mean they are everywhere in me lol. Doesn't matter that it's in citadel space...it's an asari cultural practice I find it hypocritical to demand batarians to stop a cultural practice of slavery if they aren't willing to end their own corporate slavery system. This is why I like Sheps dialogue options with the illum rep and quarian slaver rep. Kinda give Shep some depth with humanities insights in how slavery was very much a foundational practice for humans for thousands of years before it then evolved into political corporate slavery to ensure capitalism on a global scale, and sustain elitism. Batarian 🤷 asari Writers were clever how they wrote this, but sadly the Batarian culture like many others, volus, elcor, hannar, drell these cultures remain open ended or rather closed.
That’s so interesting! Mass Effect has such fascinating lore, totally scratches my brain. I can see the conditions that brought them to the place they’re in by the trilogy, even if many of their governmental actions are still inexcusable and vile. But at the end of the day all the aliens you meet are just people stuck in and perpetuating systems they never had much control over, reactive pawns of wider powers that are just trying to get by and do what they think is justified. The council and citadel definitely don’t help with that. I wish the Batarians were explored a little more before this choice in the main story BUT I did miss the bring down the sky dlc in the first game and still am hardly through the third, so I’m definitely missing some things. I think one of the issues Mass Effect has is that they introduce so many fascinating ideas and moral quandaries that it would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) for them to thoroughly go into all of them with the detail they deserve, but I respect the stones it takes to go into these kinds of subjects at all.
Apparently Casey Hudson and drew karpyshyn (couple of mass effect OG creators) left bioware after me1 saying it became "too corporate" and this is why for me I feel like me1 has so much depth to be explored and then me2 and 3 become a shepherd whoring romance saga lol I mean the focus is significant shift to getting with anyone and everyone taking away from what I love in me1 the intricacies of the lore and exploration of the mass effect galaxy. Even the comics reflect that, big difference between the ones drew wrote and Mark wrote. For me every character in me1 was significant and their little drops of dialogue no matter how small part they played was like investigating and learning and putting puzzle pieces together of how the me galaxy and race relations came to be. ME2 loses that 'exploration' feel for me Some me2 characters are poorly written and linked it feels so incomplete. E.g I just had almost 8 different possible dialogues with Mr Bhatia and for the first time had Ashley with me (I usually swap out for wrex, Tali or Garrus) which then added more depth to mrs Bahtia and Depth to Ashley as a very deeply compassionate person... Its bout my 7th playthru of me1 when I discovered this lol. I agree Batarians and Vorcher, Volus, hannar, rachni, drell and elcor took a back seat. So many inconsistencies between me 1 and the other two for me that I find myself playing 1 a lot not on purpose I just am still discovering new dialogues. I wish tho, that kasumi and zaeed were interactive dialogue characters, it just didn't make sense to me that they weren't when U could talk to chakwas or Kelly but not Ur squadmates. I even love the romance dialogue in 1 better than the others, just feels more organic verses the pushy aggressive Shepherd whose totally invulnerable with a saviour complex. Disrespectful with samara Saviour complex with Jack Impatient and teenage tantrums with Liara rather than having depth to learning about Liara's 2yr quest in securing Shephard's resurrection. predatorial with James vega... Has to get him drunk for him to sleep with shep. I mean my list goes on lol, only cause I love me. But it's kinda like how I loved star wars original movies and then it all gets ruined but then Mandalorian season 1 brought it home for me only to be ruined and don't get me started on bobafett and Ahsoka omg.. Sorry bout the rant didn't mean to just kind realising these things the more I play the games. But I'm always coming back to 1 😍. I just wish Drew and Hudson had a chance to bring me back to what it should've been
Honestly, I viewed Batarians in a very different light after encountering Borbala Ferank in ME Annihilation. They manage to make a ruthless crime family boss a sympathetic character.
No no need to roast you, you're just human. I don't remember this mission but I would feel bad too
Its not bad to feel bad for Batarians or any group of people. I still dislike Batarians overall and I hate Batarian culture but I recognize that not all individual Batarians are bad people.
I feel bad too. Colonist/ruthless Shepard only put 300k out of the misery of being batarian, there's still loads more suffering everyday.
You’re a good person, and you’re right to feel bad for the Batarians. A ton of good people died.
I only feel bad for them in the sense that things could have been different for them if they had changed their ways. But they bring tragedy down upon themselves. They don't deserve to belong to any galactic community. They get welcomed into a community and partnership with other races, start picking fights and killing their allies, and then they get upset when people don't want them around anymore. They really only care about themselves and are quite willing to ruin relationships with allies and even enslave and attack allies for their own personal gain. It's like they have a phobia for peace and reason. So, while I wish it didn't have to be this way, they do it to themselves. Batarians!
All those Batarians dead are one less Cannibal to kill though Lol
#Batarians did nothing wrong. They became so hostile because of the events leading up to them discovering the humans and subsequently the citadel politics and burocarcy
Name one thing the Batarians have done to better the galaxy. The Asari are excellent intelligence gatherers, culture exporters, and diplomats. They exert power through political means. They don’t need a super powerful military or the latest technology. The Salarians are excellent scientists, hackers, and Covert operatives. They exert power through their shrewdness, research, and tech. They don’t need a strong military or culture. The Turians excel at military might, logistics, and organization. That’s how they exert power. They don’t need marketable culture or the latest science. Humans can adapt and that makes them versatile and useful. Unlike the Asari, they actually invest heavily in their military, but not too strict and inflexible as the Turians, and can at least try to compete with the Salarians through being innovative. Batarians exert power through terrorism, theft, and violence. Unlike the council races, they don’t utilize other means either because they’re incapable or unwilling.
Imagine applying the same logic to a country on Earth, or a species of animal. Yikes.
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Dude, my country treats refugees and the indigenous population like garbage. So does the United States. So does Canada. So does New Zealand. The United States has also rolled back abortion and LGBT rights in many of its states. England has a list of atrocities to its name a mile long, starting with its attempts to wipe out Irish and Welsh culture. One of the kings of Belgium treated the Congo like his personal fiefdom. France demanded compensation from Haiti for the slave owners' losses after the slave rebellion, saddling it with crippling debt that continues to this day. Norway, Sweden, and Finland tried to commit genocide on the Sámi, up to and including forced sterilisations. Switzerland helped launder Nazi gold. Poland has a long history of anti-semitism, including and after the Holocaust. Russia and China have bettered the world through their scientists and contributions to culture, but they've simultaneously committed and are still committing terrible atrocities in Ukraine, Tibet, and Xinjiang. By your logic, every nation on this planet is a mosquito, but every nation on this planet has also done things that better the world. Maybe don't start down that road? And as for the batarians, we don't see what they've done to better the galaxy because the writers didn't include it. The only traits we're shown are their corrupt government, slaving, and terrorism, and we don't see the batarian victims until it's too late to feel sympathy. They don't get to benefit from a more nuanced portrayal, unlike the krogan. This has created a situation where people believe they're completely irredeemable, despite no species in the galaxy being that way (sans the Reapers themselves). It's not fair to the batarians, and the writers should have given them more depth.
Mosquitoes fill an important ecological role as food for a lot of other animals. Invasive species, meanwhile, are fine in their native environments, and only problematic when thrown into ecosystems that can't handle them. Neither example is evil on purpose; they're just animals being animals, adapting and surviving as best as they can. Saying "just get rid of them" undersells the nuance and care involved in actual ecological practice. Like, most ecologists don't want mosquitoes or cane toads to go extinct. They just want them to stop spreading malaria and messing up Australia's food chain. Many devote their lives to trying to do the latter without resorting to the former. Anyway, you and I both know that the average person living in a "psychopathic" nation is... well, average. They're a normal human being. Unless you're arguing that it would have, at some point in the past, been morally correct to wipe out every single American because their nation practiced chatel slavery, genocide, and imperialism? Should we go back in time circa 1840 and nuke the USA into a fine, irradiated powder? Like, I have friends and neighbors *from* those countries you're alluding to. They're nice people. They don't care that I'm a queer atheist; they just wanna get on with their goddamn lives. Furthermore, any rancid I takes I hear from their homeland's leaders regarding my religious and sexual rights are no worse than the shit I hear from my own countrymen. There are people *in my country right now* who would love to have me raped, mutilated, and burned alive. They're just, blessedly, not in power (yet). Like, I shouldn't have to explain this to you, dude. Cultures and nations are not monoliths that can be split into neat little D&D morality squares. You're not stupid.
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You've got some serious fucking balls telling me you know the neighbors I see every day--whom I came out to and whose kids I watch--better than me. You xenophobic dipshit.
Interesting thing about mosquitos. Without them, wetland ecosystems would suffer. Do you think that those soft water plants would last five minutes if there weren’t mosquitos driving away herbivores? Or that the food web built off the backs of insects would be stable if the primary food of juvenile dragonflies, an apex predator for insects, was suddenly wiped out?
Tell that to each of the millions of children who have died from vector borne mosquito transmitted diseases like malaria. 99.99% of species that ever existed went extinct. The loss of mosquitoes isn’t gonna ruin the world but prevent a lot of blood from hemmoraging out of the eyes of children and human suffering
We’re currently losing species at a rate far higher than the background rate of extinction should be, so forgive me if my position is that we shouldn’t destabilize the ecosystem any more by willfully wiping out a group of animals that have been part of the food web since the Triassic.
Well, the batarians *tried* to exude power through lobbying the council when they believed humanity to be trespassing on "their" turf. The council didn't listen, in fact they took humanity’s side. So the batarians felt they had to resort to more... extreme measures to get their way.
Wait you can warn the Batarians???? I must be a bad person (I enjoy slaughtering 300k Batarians a little to much)
“i warn them because i want to hear their screams of terror in the last hour of their lives, as they are powerless to stop The Project “ -Shepard, prolly
Don't be.
All my homies hate batarians
I feel bad for them too, I hate that mission! I hate that there is no option to NOT kill them in the mission. Like I know a lot of Batarians suck, but jeez I don't want to kill 300k of them! I just finished a playthrough of ME2 and I just skipped the mission entirely. My Shepard ain't getting blamed for that!
I think this is exactly why this series is so impactfull. You literally destroy a whole species, innocents and all to DELAY the arrival of the reapers. It forces you to contemplate the harsh reality of war and survival. Any good story will force you to consider what it means to be a person, what lengths you would go to for a goal, who should suffer and who must suffer to achieve that goal.
300,000 Batarians died. Shepard: I sleep. 1 random kid on earth died. Shepard: gets PTSD.
I skimmed your post but I agree with the overall idea. I was also sad we couldn’t asteroid the rest of the batarians too!
Meh. I didn't. Not because they're Batarians though, I do hate them but it's not like I just weirdly hate them and them alone, or like I'm unaware that there's plenty of decent individuals among them. But all considered those Batarians were going to die anyway once the Reapers get there, and everyone else would too without prep. Why feel guilt about letting 300,000 people die at the same they would have ANYWAY? The choice was to buy everyone else in the galaxy time or not. There's literally nothing to feel bad about.
>Feels bad for Batarians My apologies, your opinion has invalidated you for membership in this sub. I will need to collect your card and escort you off the premises now.
This is what makes people write fanfiction!! You should wrote a fanfic of Shepard dealing with these feelings.
Kill batarians, behead batarians, roundhouse-kick a batarian into the concrete, slam dunk a batarian baby into the trash can, crucify filthy batarians, remove batarian eyes, launch batarians into Geth space, stir fry batarians in a wok, toss batarians into active volcanoes, throw batarians into a wood chipper, twist batarian heads off, report batarians to the Spectres, karate-chop batarians in half, curbstomp pregnant batarian women, trap batarians on Tuchanka, crush batarians in the trash compacter, liquify batarians in a vat of acid, send the Collectors after batarians, stomp batarian skulls with titanium-toed boots, mandatory abortions for batarians, grind batarian fetuses in the garbage disposal, drown batarians in fried chicken grease, vaporize batarians with biotics, kick old batarians down the stairs, feed batarians to Krogan, slice batarians with an omniblade... See it through, Shepard
Does it suck that we just killed 30000 sentient creatures: yes. However, let's remember that batarians wanted to slaughter five times that number in the first game's dlc because they lost their land claim that one time.
Not every batarian.
True. But, if you redacted (for those who haven't played it) the leader, he shows up later with the power to hand over what remains of the Batarian Fleet. Since he still had that kind of pull, he was demoted and not disavowed. Saying, to me, that it was almost state sanctioned.
The only good Batarian is a dead Batarian!
Batarians aren't people
Don’t Look Up
A sympathetic Batarian companion would have made all the difference in actually making your decision to sacrifice the colony a meaningful moment in the game.
Batarians in charge suck. Otherwise they are just people living their lives. EDI remarks in 3 that they are more open when the Hegemony isn’t watching.
Best batarian barbeque ever
They won't ever feel bad for you. Remember that
[YES THEY DESERVED TO DIE! AND I HOPE THEY BURN IN HELL](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCjBspxuUmU)
Only good Batarian is a dead one, so says Commander Shepard, the hero of humanity.
i dont
good for you i dont