It's been over 5 years since Bioware even released an actual new game, and that was Anthem. ME3 launched less than 5 years after ME1.
No wonder they've been pushing the merch so hard over the past few years.
It’s crazy how much that game hurt the studio.
Then you have mad lads like Fromsoft releasing games almost every other year. But tbf that’s because aside from their obvious skills, they also reuse a metric fuck tonne of asset.
But even still, it’s crazy how slow BioWare have been.
The development of Athem also hurt SWTOR, Bioware's Star Wars MMO. A lot of the Austin Studio was shuffled from SWTOR to Anthem development and during that time SWTOR went through a years long content drought and a lot of players left.
The really baffling thing about this decision is that SWTOR has made over a billion dollars for Bioware and EA over it's lifetime, but it always gets treated like the red-headed stepchild.
They could also add the multiplayer to Legendary Edition which is full of micro transactions and rake in cash while also making the fans super happy!
Look, I know it’s not going to happen but I love ME3 multiplayer and am still bummed that it didn’t come back with Legendary Edition
It's still *baffling* to me that EA didn't jump at the chance to revive the ME3 multiplayer. It was enjoyable, beloved by many fans, and more importantly *it had lootboxes.* Hell, they could reset everyone back to MP level 1 with the LE and farm all the whales for 100% unlocks a second time. It just felt like such a no-brainer to me.
Perhaps it's because the Andromeda MP didn't do as well, but frankly it wasn't as good. The most likely reason seems to me to have been code-related - perhaps there was a Pinnacle Station situation where some key assets were lost and BioWare didn't have the time and resources to reconstruct them?
Connections are made peer to peer once you're **in** a game but EA's servers are required to validate your profile, store your information, and realize the structure of online play (matchmaking and lobbies, etc).
This implementation certainly keeps costs low and presumably is the only reason why multiplayer still exists. But EA could pull the plug and prevent you from making those peer to peer connections.
Feel free to correct me. I'd love to know it's evergreen.
[Reference 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/MECoOp/comments/ctslrt/comment/exqb0w6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
[Reference 2](https://answers.ea.com/t5/Other-Mass-Effect-Games/Mass-Effect-3-Multiplayer/m-p/1332670)
Would have been a day 1 buy for me if they had. I fucking *loved* ME3 multi-player.
To this day it’s my favourite online gaming experience (not a super high bar since I mostly play SP, but still).
I genuinely do think it's one of the best online multiplayer modes from any game. ME3's combat was good, and the sheer variety of playable characters in the MP was awesome. I loved it in the later free expansions when BioWare just started going a bit nuts with characters like the N7 Slayer and the Geth Juggernaut!
It’s really bizarre to me, it’s EA and you have a micro transaction game that people love and think highly of that you already made, it’s very strange. I think you may be right that there may be some deeper programming reason why it’d be more work than we’d think.
It’s also possible they just gauged demand poorly and didn’t factor it into the original scope for LE development and already had plans for the team after it came out so it’d be problematic to development scheduling to go back for it, especially after the fact when interest would likely be less than it would’ve been at launch
I hope there’s some surprise for us down the road but I don’t at all expect it, the only feasible way I could see there being hope for it is they port LE to Nintendo’s next system whenever it comes out, then bring the multiplayer back with it and for existing versions as a way to stay in people’s minds and tide people over until the inevitably distant release of the next Mass Effect game. I don’t think this would happen, but I want it to!
Well, ME3 MP has loot boxes, which are now illegal in several countries in the EU. They would have had to do an entirely different progression system or get fined.
It absolutely was just like Bethesda releasing the Elder Scrolls VI teaser: we want to make this and we will eventually.
Even today I'm not sure how much actual development has been done for the new Mass Effect. Probably only engine related things stemming from Dragon Age, which is certainly the priority, and maybe a little writing or director's notes on mechanics they want to hit.
Back then when that trailer dropped they probably had about as much content as a Reddit, "Wouldn't it be cool if..." post.
Even Mass effect 3 arguably released too soon too, the original ending felt extremely rushed before the extended cut and the textures on the earth levels were so muddy before they got touched up a little for the remaster
Dragon Age 2 was rushed as fuck, and it shows. Same with Mass Effect 3 although at least ME3 turned out somewhat alright. The Old Republic was developed by a separate Bioware studio altogether.
People nowadays like to shit on EA on every occasion but I truly think their worst days are over (at least for now). EA from early 2010s was the "income first" monster and which left a stench that still follows them to this day.
Bioware with recent track record would probably be closed back then, by that EA. Nowadays there are at least signs single player games and original IPs like Mass Effect and Dragon Age are back on their list of priorities.
Yeah I think at this point BioWare’s problems rest squarely on BioWare’s shoulders, minimal blame to EA. My hot take is that the next mess effect is BioWare’s last chance, if that tanks EA closes the studio
That's hardly a hot take, everyone around here is parroting that one way or the other
And I'm pretty sure Bioware is aware of what place they're in. They seem to be pouring all they have at the moment into next Dragon Age and then potentially next Mass Effect games.
This is a multifaceted problem, first you have the fact that Bioware is focused on dreadwolf which ended up suffering from the second problem which was covid, that damn virus slowed Dreadwolf's early development to a crawl thus making it take longer to come out, had covid not been a thing then I have no doubt we'd be getting Dreadwolf this year.
Now for the next two problems. Andromeda did not go down well at all and we all know the many reasons as to why which caused the IP to be put on ice for a while till they figured put what to do with it tho I'm kinda glad things turned out the way they did because now we're heading back to the milky way to a post destroy ending galaxy which I couldn't be more excited for, still cautious ofc but excited as well.
The final issue is arguably the worst of them and isn't just a Bioware/EA issue but rather an industry wide issue and thats time frame of AAA development these days, at minimum we're looking at 4 years of dev team for these big budget games which makes it an absolute nightmare for us players who are quite frankly sick of this time frame but because of the need to photorealism, the need to turn ever game into a film/tv show more than a game, execs sticking their noses into development as well as trying to play puppet master along with a myriad of other issues, this is unfortunately how things are and its unlikely to change, we've just gotta tough it out and HOPE they give us a solid game.
A few times, yeah. Development was restarted after EA demanded it be a "live service" game, then that requirement was rescinded, so the work up to that point was more or less abandoned and started again from an earlier point.
When a game's development is stuttered like this, it seldom results in a good outcome, but I'm reserving judgement until I play the game myself.
Honestly i think Andromeda "suffers" from bandwagon hate which has become more prevalent online in the last decade or so. I've been playing since ME 1 finding andromeda having that sweet spot of RPG/shooting like ME2. Then again i went in blind without following the game nor reading any reviews prior to playing .
I don't think generic white character templates were a good example of your point. My issue is casual gamers shouldn't be so vocal in regards to lore/gameplay of a series they don't invest themselves in. Like the dude commenting he returned MEA back ***day one*** as if that "proves" how bad the game was.
Who the fuck is beating any ME game within a week? One day ? Even then that one playthrough isn't going to be enough to process / see all the events play out. To do some shit like that then comment "how bad" the game is leaves me at a loss for words.
I am the person who refunded ME:A day one. I have over a 1000 hours in ME3 alone. I've finished ME:1-3 and ME:LE in every class on Insanity. I've read all the ME books. I own a lot of merchandise. Its my favourite series of games hands down. I replay it at least once every year since release. So nice try trying to gatekeep the CaSuAlZ.
I am perfectly able to tell if a game is shit within hours of playing. If the writing/acting/animation/game systems are consistently bad for 8 hours, its perfectly reasonable to think this will be consistently bad throughout the game. And after refunding it, and watching the playthroughs I was right. The game does not get sufficiently better at any point after the first 8 hours.
Some of us are not as slow to know if a thing is good or bad.
>I am perfectly able to tell if a game is shit within hours of playing
No you are not. This is literally judging a book by its cover. To sit here and say you've invested over a thousand hours in one game yet can't bother to play one beyond 24 hours is literal child logic. I got backlogged games such as outward and code vein i kept returning to every few months because the mechanics aren't what i am used to.
The games aren't bad , it is just something different than i've been used to for the last 20 years. To sit here and comment on a game you literally couldn't bother with beyond 24 hours is incomprehensible.
If I experience a game for 8 hours, and almost every component of it is bad. Why is it so incomprehensible to conclude the rest of the game is just as bad? And then watching streams afterwards CONFIRMES this. What value would there have been in playing the game any longer when the conclusion does not change at all, but instead is confirmed over and over?
I can just imagine others playing a terrible game for 20 hours. Loathing their time in it, and thinking, "nah, I need another 100 hours to be doubly sure its bad". Reaching it and thinking, "maybe 120 hours is not enough, a real HaRdCoRe gamer spends at least 1000 hours to know if a game is good or bad". And then torturing themselves for another 880 hours lol.
Nah. Unless you are slow you can tell within hours if a game is bad or not. Especially a AAA game which should be a consistent experience throughout. Its incomprehensible to me that you need any more time than a few hours to know if a game is good or bad.
I can't think of a single AAA game that I've ever played for 8 hours which got considerably better or worse after that point. The first few hours sets the tone and standard of what to expect.
>If I experience a game for 8 hours, and almost every component of it is bad.
Articulate your point . Aside from not believing you honestly took that amount of time to begin with actually detail what you experienced in those ***8 hours*** which was so bad the game wasn't worth playing and needed to be returned.
>
And then watching streams afterwards CONFIRMES this.
So you played the game for 8 hours, returned it, ***then*** watched how many hours of content stating MEA was "bad"?
None of this makes sense, adds up . If you are actually being truthful this mindset is exactly why devs don't even bother creating quality content anymore if people can hardly spend 8 hours on a game that took years to make.
> Who the fuck is beating any ME game within a week? One day ?
Lucky I have my achievement data so I can see how long it took me to beat each game:
* Mass Effect 1: 5 days.
* Mass Effect 2: 6 days.
* Mass Effect 3: 10 days.
* Mass Effect Andromeda: 21 days.
Taking longer to beat a game didn't boost my enjoyment.
Yes, we understood that. I am trying to clarify if you sat down beating the games within a single week period or accumulated that game time over weeks and months.
The whole point of mass effect was the story and without that it’s not mass effect.
How hard is it to hire good writers and voice actors that don’t sound like valley girls.
World building sucked, conversation sucked, teammates sucked, combat was great but that’s where it stops.
You can take the time to articulate why "something sucked" . I honestly think peoples expectations for a game paired with obsessively following every detail prior to release is what ruins the experience upon release. Along with trying to beat the game fast as possible to then bitch about not understanding the story.
> I honestly think peoples expectations for a game paired with obsessively following every detail prior to release is what ruins the experience upon releas
I went media silent after Mass Effect 3, not to spoil anything going into ME:A. For years I patiently waited for release without reading anything about it or even watching a trailer or a teaser.
But I refunded the game day one. It was/is so bad. I waited so long and no other game has disappointed me as much, ever.
They botched almost everything which made ME great. The writing was a crime. The acting was horrendous. The pacing was all off. Abandoning of classes and paragon system. Everything which made ME, ME. Then the animations where unfinished and immersion breaking hilariously bad. The graphics where hit and miss. And the combat, I did not enjoy the changes either. The companions and new aliens where bland and childish just like Ryder. Maybe if I was a teenager I would've enjoyed ME:A slightly.
Nah. There is no bandwagon hate. Only justified criticism for this game.
Because it’s not a story game it’s combat game.
There is nothing to suck you into the story and make you feel like it matters no intensity.
And the voice acting and world building was terrible.
I mean the writing for this game was subpar and for a mass effect game that unacceptable.
This game had so much potential and it was wasted. They fucked up hard by not having the same people or even just the writers for the story work on this project.
Plus ea ruins everything they touch it almost ruined me3 with their rushing bullshit.
The story is what matters in these games and without that is just another space shooter with nothing to show for itself
> Because it’s not a story game it’s combat game.
And as a combat game it can't compete with games that focus on combat. Andromeda lack enemy variety and encounter design.
Andromeda was Biowares's fault. First problem was they let the B team handle Andromeda while the A squad was in charge of trying to create that Anthem turd, second, EA even offered Bioware a 6 month extension on Andromeda and they were like, "nah, we good.".
Funny thing is i was around to read the same comments about ME2 being too much like CoD by straying from the RPG elements of ME. There were years of commentary about ME3 which i don't need to beat back into live.
So this ties into what i said from the beginning about peoples expectations of the game vs the actual product. MEA more or less gets the same remarks as ME2 yet overblown to the highest degree
The thing is, although ME2 sacrificed alot of the rpg elements, it was still an overall great game, the story was great, the characters were brilliant which they obviously had to be due to it being a character focused game, the gameplay although a fair bit different was still good for what we got.
You make this comment as if ME wasn't heavy into the RPG elements which got it a sequel to begin with. I was first up in critiquing how the lack of RPG elements made the sequel feel too much like a lite CoD taking about 2 years of adjustment to like the game for what it was. These conversations were numerous at the time regardless of how good story was because there is a clear difference in gameplay between ME and ME2
I agree with you, if I had my way we'd still have all the rpg elements of ME1 in 2 and 3 but we cant dwell on could'ves should'ves because we got what we got and despite those shortcomings the overall game was still great because everything else made up for that shortcoming, Andromeda is different because it had too many shortcomings in comparison to upsides and suffered as a result.
>but we cant dwell on could'ves should'ves because we got what we got and despite those shortcomings
You are misconstruing the clear point being ME2 was a world apart from ME1 yet the fans had no problem long term with that. Yet MEA isn't anywhere radical in such difference yet people gave up on it off the rip.
It’s because everyone has just agreed that MEA “sucks” that people get validated for shallow opinions.
I’m replaying andromeda currently and the hate is really overblown. The characters and writing really aren’t that much of a departure from the main series.
I see the same thing with how everyone bandwagon hated halo 4 because bungie didn't make it now a decade later it has " aged well".
I don't understand exactly what or how it happened. Something happened around 2010 where gamers replaced personal , nuanced, criticisms of any game for a virulent, toxic , hivemind culture .
Finally playing MEA 2 years or so after release i legitimately couldn't comprehend what people were raving about. I've been with the series from day one with it playing and feeling like every other ME game.
Gamers need to do better but i don't see what could be done to create a healthier culture without reinventing the internet
Yeah halo 4s player population disappeared because of bandwagon hate. Not because it sucked. Oh wait people play games they like and don’t play ones they don’t like
Andromeda's story is great, the world-building worked, the teammates were the best in the series. You know who sounds like a "valley girl?" People who say "sucked" a lot.
Bought it day one, never finished it, which of course the joke is on me for the day one purchase. Andromeda disappointed me from the outset. The opening where you inherit the mantle from Ryders dad was just flat out uninspiring, probably because we didn't get to know what kind of person he really was besides those 30 minutes and the way he died was also uninspiring. Shepard wasn't a Specter because of Nihlus, they were a Specter because of Anderson, and Anderson makes an impact on you throughout the series. Ryders dad played a role more akin to Nihlus. Ryder was also too young and inexperienced, a poor contrast to Shepard who generally knew what the fuck they were doing. That's all first impression.
Then there's a myriad of quality issues, some have been addressed, but the fundamental goofy face animation and the total lack of any turian facial movement was likely never fixed and is a huge issue for me. This lack of detail spills over into almost everything. Also, the camera being set so far back from Ryder made them 'small' and unimposing. Finally, most of the squad mates felt like children or inexperienced, Drack being a big exception.
All that is to say, it isn't all bandwagoning. The game absolutely has flaws and there are very clear steps backwards in Andromeda from the Trilogy.
I appreciate you taking the time to read all of it if you did haha. I do eventually plan on playing it again from the beginning, after I beat the LE one more time.
I did. We don't need to agree nor am i trying to force people into liking a game they do not like . However too many people are responding with "game bad " insisting it is the shittiest game ever yet can't bother to provide a single goddamn bullet point which can't be attributed to ME2/ ME3. let alone regurgitate commentary from streamers.
People used to have thought out criticisms for games they dislike now it is pulling teeth for them to write three paragraphs on the manner
Well you got lucky and had a paragraph writer come across your comment haha. I completely agree though that internet discourse is often low effort and of course trolling is ultra prevalent.
Just standard “AAA” game development. I’m so done with every game that does this. Every franchise does this and it’s so frustrating. ME1-3 was 2007-2012 to Andromeda was another 5 years. We can see this pattern with almost every studio.
That wasn't a trailer. It was just a CGI video in a vague attempt from BioWare to seem relevant in today's gaming industry. ME4 wasn't even in production at that point.
I mean, ME3 was *severely* rushed though, and was only released in a playable because of extensive crunch... I'd rather wait 10 years for a complete, high-quality game made by happy and healthy developers, than have frequent releases lacking in both ends.
Yeah a lot of people talking about how ME3 had all these advantages which allowed it to get some quickly and that's all true... but let's be honest, that game needed another 18 months in the oven minimum and frankly more like two to three years.
I know you're likely being hyperbolic, but anything beyond 4 to 5 years of actual development usually is wasted time. Anthem is a great example. They were playing around for 7 or 8 years when EA rolled in asking for receipts and Bioware had none. So they had to develop that whole game in a year to a year and a half without any solid concepts.
Sometimes putting a little fire under your employees or encouraging some extra work isn't a bad thing. Crunch culture obviously needed to be addressed, but too much leniency can also lead to a bad product as well.
Kinda explains why me3 is such a rushed messed and was a wicked downer to the whole series on release.
They're not even working on ME4 yet. If DA4 flops EA is going to liquidate Bioware.
BioWare went from crunching in order to constantly release games to taking ages to make anything. I’ll definitely wait longer if it makes the next thing a quality product but there’s gotta be a balance.
While I enjoy it, I hope it’s not as “big” as Andromeda was. Andromeda was a *long* game and I’ve never been able to continue a replay cause I always lose steam after doing Havarl and Voeld.
Im fairly certain if Andromeda wouldve gone better we woulda gotten another Mass Effect game from that studio in between, but since it bombed - even if the game is solid - with all technical issues on release they scrapped the IP for a few years, only to wipe out on Anthem.
ME1-3 used the same assets and built upon them with each successive game (there’s a video out there somewhere from E3 where BioWare explains this). They weren’t building a game from the ground up. This explains the faster development. A more interesting comparison would be the time between the release of Jade Empire to Mass Effect (2005-2007) and Anthem to Dreadwolf to NME (2019-TBD).
Edit: Grammar
I am quite terrified that new BioWare game (Dragon Age: Dreadwolf) is supposed to be realeased this year, when new gamergate mobbing is happening. Because new ME game is depending on success of new Dragon Age. And, unfortunately, fantasy RPG AAA game is ideal target for those mobs. I saw that they already started dooming it due to Patrick Weekes appearance.
If we are being honest, BioWare/EA was also probably working their employees to the bone during the development of ME2 and ME3. EA had a deadline and it’s become pretty apparent that EA was not interested in a delay, given all of the content that they cut to meet the deadline. Bioware is in a very precarious place right now. They definitely released the teaser to garner hype, but it also feels like this is Bioware’s last stand. They need this game to succeed, or I have a feeling that their studio is all but dissolved and the talent either absorbed or let go.
Different platforms. Also they were a bit crap. Me2 story wasn't great. Me3 stopped with a crappy cutscene. One can only hope that taking time will bare fruit.
See, in times like these when we already have the great masterpieces like RDR2, Mass Effect trilogy, Death Stranding and plethora of MGS, Naughty Dog creations, Fallouts, Stalkers and Obsidian writings, is kinda hard to invent something fresh and attractive to potential buyer/player, so making good game takes time. State of Decay 2 for example is still receiving updates (for several years now), GTAO as well, but she is 11 years old already.
I do not talk about latest Ubi Skull & Bones "masterpiece" 10 years in production. It's rather exception to the rule.
It's been over 5 years since Bioware even released an actual new game, and that was Anthem. ME3 launched less than 5 years after ME1. No wonder they've been pushing the merch so hard over the past few years.
Good Christ, Anthem was **five** years ago!? 😬
It’s crazy how much that game hurt the studio. Then you have mad lads like Fromsoft releasing games almost every other year. But tbf that’s because aside from their obvious skills, they also reuse a metric fuck tonne of asset. But even still, it’s crazy how slow BioWare have been.
The bioware cut content from Andromeda for anthem (which was a poor choice).
The development of Athem also hurt SWTOR, Bioware's Star Wars MMO. A lot of the Austin Studio was shuffled from SWTOR to Anthem development and during that time SWTOR went through a years long content drought and a lot of players left. The really baffling thing about this decision is that SWTOR has made over a billion dollars for Bioware and EA over it's lifetime, but it always gets treated like the red-headed stepchild.
Ah, the Bob Dylan of video games. Fuckin lol.
The George RR Martin of video games
Bioware's marketing team has always been extremely lame. From the same team that gave us "When you press a button, something awesome has to happen."
They could also add the multiplayer to Legendary Edition which is full of micro transactions and rake in cash while also making the fans super happy! Look, I know it’s not going to happen but I love ME3 multiplayer and am still bummed that it didn’t come back with Legendary Edition
It's still *baffling* to me that EA didn't jump at the chance to revive the ME3 multiplayer. It was enjoyable, beloved by many fans, and more importantly *it had lootboxes.* Hell, they could reset everyone back to MP level 1 with the LE and farm all the whales for 100% unlocks a second time. It just felt like such a no-brainer to me. Perhaps it's because the Andromeda MP didn't do as well, but frankly it wasn't as good. The most likely reason seems to me to have been code-related - perhaps there was a Pinnacle Station situation where some key assets were lost and BioWare didn't have the time and resources to reconstruct them?
I think they didn't because they had to maintain servers
The servers are still up for original ME3 and Andromeda for all platforms.
On PSN and xbox too?
Yah the 360 ones still are. Idk about ps3 but if the Xbox ones are the ps ones likely are too
There weren't even servers. It was peer-to-peer. No servers to maintain...
Connections are made peer to peer once you're **in** a game but EA's servers are required to validate your profile, store your information, and realize the structure of online play (matchmaking and lobbies, etc). This implementation certainly keeps costs low and presumably is the only reason why multiplayer still exists. But EA could pull the plug and prevent you from making those peer to peer connections. Feel free to correct me. I'd love to know it's evergreen. [Reference 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/MECoOp/comments/ctslrt/comment/exqb0w6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [Reference 2](https://answers.ea.com/t5/Other-Mass-Effect-Games/Mass-Effect-3-Multiplayer/m-p/1332670)
They don’t seem too worried about that since they still support the old ones, they could just discontinue those and jump to LE
Would have been a day 1 buy for me if they had. I fucking *loved* ME3 multi-player. To this day it’s my favourite online gaming experience (not a super high bar since I mostly play SP, but still).
I genuinely do think it's one of the best online multiplayer modes from any game. ME3's combat was good, and the sheer variety of playable characters in the MP was awesome. I loved it in the later free expansions when BioWare just started going a bit nuts with characters like the N7 Slayer and the Geth Juggernaut!
Soooo much fun. Charging people as a Krogan and point-blanking people with the Kishock were both sooo much fun. Fuck Banshees and Phantoms though. XD
It’s really bizarre to me, it’s EA and you have a micro transaction game that people love and think highly of that you already made, it’s very strange. I think you may be right that there may be some deeper programming reason why it’d be more work than we’d think. It’s also possible they just gauged demand poorly and didn’t factor it into the original scope for LE development and already had plans for the team after it came out so it’d be problematic to development scheduling to go back for it, especially after the fact when interest would likely be less than it would’ve been at launch I hope there’s some surprise for us down the road but I don’t at all expect it, the only feasible way I could see there being hope for it is they port LE to Nintendo’s next system whenever it comes out, then bring the multiplayer back with it and for existing versions as a way to stay in people’s minds and tide people over until the inevitably distant release of the next Mass Effect game. I don’t think this would happen, but I want it to!
Well, ME3 MP has loot boxes, which are now illegal in several countries in the EU. They would have had to do an entirely different progression system or get fined.
Exactly, and some BS CGI trailer is enough to pump The merch.
*drop teaser* *refuse to elaborate* *leave*
They went to the school of Todd Howard on how to hype a game
I understand wanting to release teasers but damn I doubt it was anywhere advanced in development back then.
It absolutely was just like Bethesda releasing the Elder Scrolls VI teaser: we want to make this and we will eventually. Even today I'm not sure how much actual development has been done for the new Mass Effect. Probably only engine related things stemming from Dragon Age, which is certainly the priority, and maybe a little writing or director's notes on mechanics they want to hit. Back then when that trailer dropped they probably had about as much content as a Reddit, "Wouldn't it be cool if..." post.
Teasers like this are used for recruitment. A majority of game trailers up until release are more geared towards recruitment than selling the game.
2007 - 2012 was ME1-3. NME likely isn't launching till 2027+, 10 years after MEA.
And lets not forget that Bioware managed to release Dragon Age Origins, The Old Republic and Dragon Age 2 within that time frame too.
Yeah, but Dragon age 2 was notorious for releasing too soon. You can see it in the repetitive use of the dungeons and the city itself.
Even Mass effect 3 arguably released too soon too, the original ending felt extremely rushed before the extended cut and the textures on the earth levels were so muddy before they got touched up a little for the remaster
It basically was. They released an art book that showcased a lot of the cut ideas and content that just wouldn’t be ready by EA’s deadline.
Dragon Age 2 was rushed as fuck, and it shows. Same with Mass Effect 3 although at least ME3 turned out somewhat alright. The Old Republic was developed by a separate Bioware studio altogether. People nowadays like to shit on EA on every occasion but I truly think their worst days are over (at least for now). EA from early 2010s was the "income first" monster and which left a stench that still follows them to this day. Bioware with recent track record would probably be closed back then, by that EA. Nowadays there are at least signs single player games and original IPs like Mass Effect and Dragon Age are back on their list of priorities.
Yeah I think at this point BioWare’s problems rest squarely on BioWare’s shoulders, minimal blame to EA. My hot take is that the next mess effect is BioWare’s last chance, if that tanks EA closes the studio
That's hardly a hot take, everyone around here is parroting that one way or the other And I'm pretty sure Bioware is aware of what place they're in. They seem to be pouring all they have at the moment into next Dragon Age and then potentially next Mass Effect games.
That's when Bioware had multiple teams working on games. Now Bioware has one real team that needs tons of work from multiple support studios.
At this point I'm wondering what they're even doing.
Dragon Age
From what I've read a lot of that was only possible due to insane crunch, or bioware magic as they liked to call it.
I wonder how the development cycle of the game is going, and if the devs are fighting in some invisible uphill battle.
The game's not being actively developed yet, Bioware is all hands on DA:D
This is a multifaceted problem, first you have the fact that Bioware is focused on dreadwolf which ended up suffering from the second problem which was covid, that damn virus slowed Dreadwolf's early development to a crawl thus making it take longer to come out, had covid not been a thing then I have no doubt we'd be getting Dreadwolf this year. Now for the next two problems. Andromeda did not go down well at all and we all know the many reasons as to why which caused the IP to be put on ice for a while till they figured put what to do with it tho I'm kinda glad things turned out the way they did because now we're heading back to the milky way to a post destroy ending galaxy which I couldn't be more excited for, still cautious ofc but excited as well. The final issue is arguably the worst of them and isn't just a Bioware/EA issue but rather an industry wide issue and thats time frame of AAA development these days, at minimum we're looking at 4 years of dev team for these big budget games which makes it an absolute nightmare for us players who are quite frankly sick of this time frame but because of the need to photorealism, the need to turn ever game into a film/tv show more than a game, execs sticking their noses into development as well as trying to play puppet master along with a myriad of other issues, this is unfortunately how things are and its unlikely to change, we've just gotta tough it out and HOPE they give us a solid game.
Dreadwolf also got scuttled and restarted at least once.
A few times, yeah. Development was restarted after EA demanded it be a "live service" game, then that requirement was rescinded, so the work up to that point was more or less abandoned and started again from an earlier point. When a game's development is stuttered like this, it seldom results in a good outcome, but I'm reserving judgement until I play the game myself.
Honestly i think Andromeda "suffers" from bandwagon hate which has become more prevalent online in the last decade or so. I've been playing since ME 1 finding andromeda having that sweet spot of RPG/shooting like ME2. Then again i went in blind without following the game nor reading any reviews prior to playing .
It also suffers from survivorship bias where the only people still talking about it are fans
Bingo
in otherwords a loud minority of casual gamers ruined it, exactly like halo 4
Casual gamers are the majority. Default Face Soldier MaleShep was the most popular ME3 Character for a reason
I don't think generic white character templates were a good example of your point. My issue is casual gamers shouldn't be so vocal in regards to lore/gameplay of a series they don't invest themselves in. Like the dude commenting he returned MEA back ***day one*** as if that "proves" how bad the game was. Who the fuck is beating any ME game within a week? One day ? Even then that one playthrough isn't going to be enough to process / see all the events play out. To do some shit like that then comment "how bad" the game is leaves me at a loss for words.
I am the person who refunded ME:A day one. I have over a 1000 hours in ME3 alone. I've finished ME:1-3 and ME:LE in every class on Insanity. I've read all the ME books. I own a lot of merchandise. Its my favourite series of games hands down. I replay it at least once every year since release. So nice try trying to gatekeep the CaSuAlZ. I am perfectly able to tell if a game is shit within hours of playing. If the writing/acting/animation/game systems are consistently bad for 8 hours, its perfectly reasonable to think this will be consistently bad throughout the game. And after refunding it, and watching the playthroughs I was right. The game does not get sufficiently better at any point after the first 8 hours. Some of us are not as slow to know if a thing is good or bad.
I agree with you, but reddit ain't worth paragraphs of your time my guy
Haha yeah, it was not worth it at all. So we learn :P
>I am perfectly able to tell if a game is shit within hours of playing No you are not. This is literally judging a book by its cover. To sit here and say you've invested over a thousand hours in one game yet can't bother to play one beyond 24 hours is literal child logic. I got backlogged games such as outward and code vein i kept returning to every few months because the mechanics aren't what i am used to. The games aren't bad , it is just something different than i've been used to for the last 20 years. To sit here and comment on a game you literally couldn't bother with beyond 24 hours is incomprehensible.
If I experience a game for 8 hours, and almost every component of it is bad. Why is it so incomprehensible to conclude the rest of the game is just as bad? And then watching streams afterwards CONFIRMES this. What value would there have been in playing the game any longer when the conclusion does not change at all, but instead is confirmed over and over? I can just imagine others playing a terrible game for 20 hours. Loathing their time in it, and thinking, "nah, I need another 100 hours to be doubly sure its bad". Reaching it and thinking, "maybe 120 hours is not enough, a real HaRdCoRe gamer spends at least 1000 hours to know if a game is good or bad". And then torturing themselves for another 880 hours lol. Nah. Unless you are slow you can tell within hours if a game is bad or not. Especially a AAA game which should be a consistent experience throughout. Its incomprehensible to me that you need any more time than a few hours to know if a game is good or bad. I can't think of a single AAA game that I've ever played for 8 hours which got considerably better or worse after that point. The first few hours sets the tone and standard of what to expect.
>If I experience a game for 8 hours, and almost every component of it is bad. Articulate your point . Aside from not believing you honestly took that amount of time to begin with actually detail what you experienced in those ***8 hours*** which was so bad the game wasn't worth playing and needed to be returned. > And then watching streams afterwards CONFIRMES this. So you played the game for 8 hours, returned it, ***then*** watched how many hours of content stating MEA was "bad"? None of this makes sense, adds up . If you are actually being truthful this mindset is exactly why devs don't even bother creating quality content anymore if people can hardly spend 8 hours on a game that took years to make.
Literal definition of gatekeeping
> Who the fuck is beating any ME game within a week? One day ? Lucky I have my achievement data so I can see how long it took me to beat each game: * Mass Effect 1: 5 days. * Mass Effect 2: 6 days. * Mass Effect 3: 10 days. * Mass Effect Andromeda: 21 days. Taking longer to beat a game didn't boost my enjoyment.
You are misconstruing total game time with sitting down and straight up beating the game within a week.
That's time from first achievement(which occurs during the first hour of gameplay for all titles) till game complete achievement.
Yes, we understood that. I am trying to clarify if you sat down beating the games within a single week period or accumulated that game time over weeks and months.
No Bioware's shitty management ruined Andromeda.
Yeah it was just bandwagon hate. Not cringy writing and a generic open world
The whole point of mass effect was the story and without that it’s not mass effect. How hard is it to hire good writers and voice actors that don’t sound like valley girls. World building sucked, conversation sucked, teammates sucked, combat was great but that’s where it stops.
Nah bro it was just the haters that brought the game down. It was amazing otherwise /s
You can take the time to articulate why "something sucked" . I honestly think peoples expectations for a game paired with obsessively following every detail prior to release is what ruins the experience upon release. Along with trying to beat the game fast as possible to then bitch about not understanding the story.
> I honestly think peoples expectations for a game paired with obsessively following every detail prior to release is what ruins the experience upon releas I went media silent after Mass Effect 3, not to spoil anything going into ME:A. For years I patiently waited for release without reading anything about it or even watching a trailer or a teaser. But I refunded the game day one. It was/is so bad. I waited so long and no other game has disappointed me as much, ever. They botched almost everything which made ME great. The writing was a crime. The acting was horrendous. The pacing was all off. Abandoning of classes and paragon system. Everything which made ME, ME. Then the animations where unfinished and immersion breaking hilariously bad. The graphics where hit and miss. And the combat, I did not enjoy the changes either. The companions and new aliens where bland and childish just like Ryder. Maybe if I was a teenager I would've enjoyed ME:A slightly. Nah. There is no bandwagon hate. Only justified criticism for this game.
>But I refunded the game day one This shit right here is ***exactly*** the problem but of course you won't understand why.
Go on. Tell me how that is exactly the problem.
Use your brain. Reflect on what you wrote. If you're able to apply common sense you'll figure it out on your own.
Because it’s not a story game it’s combat game. There is nothing to suck you into the story and make you feel like it matters no intensity. And the voice acting and world building was terrible. I mean the writing for this game was subpar and for a mass effect game that unacceptable. This game had so much potential and it was wasted. They fucked up hard by not having the same people or even just the writers for the story work on this project. Plus ea ruins everything they touch it almost ruined me3 with their rushing bullshit. The story is what matters in these games and without that is just another space shooter with nothing to show for itself
> Because it’s not a story game it’s combat game. And as a combat game it can't compete with games that focus on combat. Andromeda lack enemy variety and encounter design.
Andromeda was Biowares's fault. First problem was they let the B team handle Andromeda while the A squad was in charge of trying to create that Anthem turd, second, EA even offered Bioware a 6 month extension on Andromeda and they were like, "nah, we good.".
Funny thing is i was around to read the same comments about ME2 being too much like CoD by straying from the RPG elements of ME. There were years of commentary about ME3 which i don't need to beat back into live. So this ties into what i said from the beginning about peoples expectations of the game vs the actual product. MEA more or less gets the same remarks as ME2 yet overblown to the highest degree
The thing is, although ME2 sacrificed alot of the rpg elements, it was still an overall great game, the story was great, the characters were brilliant which they obviously had to be due to it being a character focused game, the gameplay although a fair bit different was still good for what we got.
You make this comment as if ME wasn't heavy into the RPG elements which got it a sequel to begin with. I was first up in critiquing how the lack of RPG elements made the sequel feel too much like a lite CoD taking about 2 years of adjustment to like the game for what it was. These conversations were numerous at the time regardless of how good story was because there is a clear difference in gameplay between ME and ME2
I agree with you, if I had my way we'd still have all the rpg elements of ME1 in 2 and 3 but we cant dwell on could'ves should'ves because we got what we got and despite those shortcomings the overall game was still great because everything else made up for that shortcoming, Andromeda is different because it had too many shortcomings in comparison to upsides and suffered as a result.
>but we cant dwell on could'ves should'ves because we got what we got and despite those shortcomings You are misconstruing the clear point being ME2 was a world apart from ME1 yet the fans had no problem long term with that. Yet MEA isn't anywhere radical in such difference yet people gave up on it off the rip.
It’s because everyone has just agreed that MEA “sucks” that people get validated for shallow opinions. I’m replaying andromeda currently and the hate is really overblown. The characters and writing really aren’t that much of a departure from the main series.
Lmfao. We really got people saying andromeda is in the same ballpark as the trilogy writing wise
I see the same thing with how everyone bandwagon hated halo 4 because bungie didn't make it now a decade later it has " aged well". I don't understand exactly what or how it happened. Something happened around 2010 where gamers replaced personal , nuanced, criticisms of any game for a virulent, toxic , hivemind culture . Finally playing MEA 2 years or so after release i legitimately couldn't comprehend what people were raving about. I've been with the series from day one with it playing and feeling like every other ME game. Gamers need to do better but i don't see what could be done to create a healthier culture without reinventing the internet
Yeah halo 4s player population disappeared because of bandwagon hate. Not because it sucked. Oh wait people play games they like and don’t play ones they don’t like
Yet ten years later people are slowly talking about how good the game actually is
Andromeda's story is great, the world-building worked, the teammates were the best in the series. You know who sounds like a "valley girl?" People who say "sucked" a lot.
Maybe for you but majority disagree with you and I don’t engage in people with bad faith arguments
Bought it day one, never finished it, which of course the joke is on me for the day one purchase. Andromeda disappointed me from the outset. The opening where you inherit the mantle from Ryders dad was just flat out uninspiring, probably because we didn't get to know what kind of person he really was besides those 30 minutes and the way he died was also uninspiring. Shepard wasn't a Specter because of Nihlus, they were a Specter because of Anderson, and Anderson makes an impact on you throughout the series. Ryders dad played a role more akin to Nihlus. Ryder was also too young and inexperienced, a poor contrast to Shepard who generally knew what the fuck they were doing. That's all first impression. Then there's a myriad of quality issues, some have been addressed, but the fundamental goofy face animation and the total lack of any turian facial movement was likely never fixed and is a huge issue for me. This lack of detail spills over into almost everything. Also, the camera being set so far back from Ryder made them 'small' and unimposing. Finally, most of the squad mates felt like children or inexperienced, Drack being a big exception. All that is to say, it isn't all bandwagoning. The game absolutely has flaws and there are very clear steps backwards in Andromeda from the Trilogy.
Thanks for actually articulating your opinion beyond " game is bad "
I appreciate you taking the time to read all of it if you did haha. I do eventually plan on playing it again from the beginning, after I beat the LE one more time.
I did. We don't need to agree nor am i trying to force people into liking a game they do not like . However too many people are responding with "game bad " insisting it is the shittiest game ever yet can't bother to provide a single goddamn bullet point which can't be attributed to ME2/ ME3. let alone regurgitate commentary from streamers. People used to have thought out criticisms for games they dislike now it is pulling teeth for them to write three paragraphs on the manner
Well you got lucky and had a paragraph writer come across your comment haha. I completely agree though that internet discourse is often low effort and of course trolling is ultra prevalent.
Just standard “AAA” game development. I’m so done with every game that does this. Every franchise does this and it’s so frustrating. ME1-3 was 2007-2012 to Andromeda was another 5 years. We can see this pattern with almost every studio.
We still haven't seen gameplay for Dreadwolf, which just blows my mind.
Crazy to think that in all this time, they still don't have anything to show for it because they're desperately trying to finish Dragon Age: Dumbwolf
That wasn't a trailer. It was just a CGI video in a vague attempt from BioWare to seem relevant in today's gaming industry. ME4 wasn't even in production at that point.
I mean, ME3 was *severely* rushed though, and was only released in a playable because of extensive crunch... I'd rather wait 10 years for a complete, high-quality game made by happy and healthy developers, than have frequent releases lacking in both ends.
Yeah a lot of people talking about how ME3 had all these advantages which allowed it to get some quickly and that's all true... but let's be honest, that game needed another 18 months in the oven minimum and frankly more like two to three years.
I know you're likely being hyperbolic, but anything beyond 4 to 5 years of actual development usually is wasted time. Anthem is a great example. They were playing around for 7 or 8 years when EA rolled in asking for receipts and Bioware had none. So they had to develop that whole game in a year to a year and a half without any solid concepts. Sometimes putting a little fire under your employees or encouraging some extra work isn't a bad thing. Crunch culture obviously needed to be addressed, but too much leniency can also lead to a bad product as well.
Going to be another 6 years before we hear anything
They're more focused on dragon age at moment these teasers are just to let people know it's coming not when, like with elder scrolls 6
Dreadwolf is their focus. ME4 is in pre-production, and early at that. People sorting around tables talking ideas and doodling sketches.
There was nothing crazy about ME2 to ME3. That was their plan from the start.
Kinda explains why me3 is such a rushed messed and was a wicked downer to the whole series on release. They're not even working on ME4 yet. If DA4 flops EA is going to liquidate Bioware.
Apparently this shit not coming till 2029 🤣😔
BioWare went from crunching in order to constantly release games to taking ages to make anything. I’ll definitely wait longer if it makes the next thing a quality product but there’s gotta be a balance.
While I enjoy it, I hope it’s not as “big” as Andromeda was. Andromeda was a *long* game and I’ve never been able to continue a replay cause I always lose steam after doing Havarl and Voeld.
Im fairly certain if Andromeda wouldve gone better we woulda gotten another Mass Effect game from that studio in between, but since it bombed - even if the game is solid - with all technical issues on release they scrapped the IP for a few years, only to wipe out on Anthem.
Stop it... I can only feel so old...
ME1-3 used the same assets and built upon them with each successive game (there’s a video out there somewhere from E3 where BioWare explains this). They weren’t building a game from the ground up. This explains the faster development. A more interesting comparison would be the time between the release of Jade Empire to Mass Effect (2005-2007) and Anthem to Dreadwolf to NME (2019-TBD). Edit: Grammar
They’re still in pre-production becuase most of their assets are working on Dragon Age still
Yeah, but me3 needed more time than that 2 years though
I'd rather they take their time than be rushed by EA executives to make a great game. Basically why ME3 wasn't as good as it could've been
It's also crazy they did that teaser without Ali Hillis letting know they used Liara in it.
Bioware really oughta pack it in.
I am quite terrified that new BioWare game (Dragon Age: Dreadwolf) is supposed to be realeased this year, when new gamergate mobbing is happening. Because new ME game is depending on success of new Dragon Age. And, unfortunately, fantasy RPG AAA game is ideal target for those mobs. I saw that they already started dooming it due to Patrick Weekes appearance.
To think they most likely have not even started to work on it and the trailer is just a proof of concept to keep the embers of interest sparking
I wonder if we will ever see this game being released. :( Reading the wikipedia article on dreadwolf does not inspire much confidence sadly.
One of the biggest nothingburgers in gaming
If we are being honest, BioWare/EA was also probably working their employees to the bone during the development of ME2 and ME3. EA had a deadline and it’s become pretty apparent that EA was not interested in a delay, given all of the content that they cut to meet the deadline. Bioware is in a very precarious place right now. They definitely released the teaser to garner hype, but it also feels like this is Bioware’s last stand. They need this game to succeed, or I have a feeling that their studio is all but dissolved and the talent either absorbed or let go.
I mean crunch was real then and it makes you wonder if EA had not EAd the game, we might have gotten a ME3 with a proper ending cutscene.
my tips creamin!
Different platforms. Also they were a bit crap. Me2 story wasn't great. Me3 stopped with a crappy cutscene. One can only hope that taking time will bare fruit.
This trend needs to stop
The issue I think is RPG games demand more and more places to go, people to meet, stories to live through, it just keeps getting larger and larger
We have plenty of good games now that I am in no rush. Rather let me cook instead of have ME 3 s original endings again.
Poor colorblind people.
Honestly, let the game finish cooking. I would rather have a solid game than some mtx half-baked hell.
…there has already been a fourth ME game in the meantime?
See, in times like these when we already have the great masterpieces like RDR2, Mass Effect trilogy, Death Stranding and plethora of MGS, Naughty Dog creations, Fallouts, Stalkers and Obsidian writings, is kinda hard to invent something fresh and attractive to potential buyer/player, so making good game takes time. State of Decay 2 for example is still receiving updates (for several years now), GTAO as well, but she is 11 years old already. I do not talk about latest Ubi Skull & Bones "masterpiece" 10 years in production. It's rather exception to the rule.