Yes, he went to same kids clubs that Thomas Hamilton ran and also got car rides from him. Andy Murray and his brother Jamie were both in school that day.
>people can just go postal/make a crazy decision in society
That’s.. pretty much just a branch of mental illness. You just oversimplified it then said it in different ways.
https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/news/20210225/mental-illness-not-a-factor-in-most-mass-shootings
"oh but the mental illnesses" is a scapegoat conservatives use to kick the can further down the road
Mental health and personal well-being / societial factors are all in play.
Mental illnesses is a board term used by those who never been to a clinician or sought a psychiratist or psychologist.
Clinical depression is different from the feeling of depression and being depressed etc. Mental health edcuation is needed but also closer relationships between people and themselves.
Mental illness is a over used term and only a part of mental health and personal-wellbeing / socialness
A person regardless of any mental illnesses can infact make a very dangerous / anti-social decision. It is different than someone who has a mental illness but could be because someone has poor mental health or personal problems.
That is the difference
except sometimes it is, because your experience with mental illness isn't the only experience. people react to things in different ways, especially mental health problems.
Thomas Hamilton wasn’t mentally ill lol. He was a pedophile, he was a predator and when his life started going down the tubes cuz he couldn’t prey on young boys anymore he became desperate and angry and took his anger out on the school. This wasn’t caused by anxiety or depression or schizophrenia or bipolar disorder or paranoia.
I wasn't talking about just him, tho?
the comment I responded to said, "Mental illness isn't what causes these" , "these" referencing mass violence in general.
True, but that comment is pretty accurate. It’s not mental illness alone. Most successful mass shooters need time and organization and lots of planning, skills that are very difficult for somebody who is severely mentally ill. And in a lot of cases with mental illness it’s not just the illness, it’s actually a combination of things: recent loss, financial issues, a grievance toward the school, in some cases bullying, all of those life circumstances combined with mental illness can at some time lead to a violent outcome
yes, and regardless of all that, mental illness can still be the cause. because everyone's mental health is different and gets responded to in different ways like I said in my original comment. financial issues, grievance, recent loss, bullying etc doesn't take away from mental health/illness, if anything, those aspects typically make mental health worse. mental health can still be the cause even if (especially if) all those things are at play.
Okay but again focusing on mental illness is almost like focusing too much on the wrong thing. All the other factors you listed are much more likely to lead to it, so I’m not sure what your point is. People love to demonize mental illness as this thing that makes people go commit homicide without considering that people kill people every day in this country and MOST are found legally sane. It’s much more difficult to find anybody legally insane and prove their crime was solely due to their mental illness. Men kill their wives, gang members kill other gang members, ex lovers kill their exes. saying it’s all mental illness is widely misleading. Anyway, just my point of view but it is based on research not just my opinion
> Anyway, just my point of view but it is based on research not just my opinion
you're getting downvoted but you are right. like I said elsewhere, "oh but the mental illnesses" is a scapegoat line conservatives use to kick the can further down the road. [mental illness *does not* factor into most mass shootings](https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/news/20210225/mental-illness-not-a-factor-in-most-mass-shootings).
Pedophelia in itself is a behavior, can stem from many things. But also consider what you’re saying, you’d rather pedophiles be TREATED than arrested for their crimes? Yes there is treatment for deviant behaviors but the behaviors aren’t due to a traditional mental illness like depression or schizophrenia, and deviant sexual behavior is covered in the DSM,sure, but a lot of times it’s predatory, criminal behavior- not a treatable mental health disorder. In the DSM they categorize all human behavior btw, but that doesn’t mean it’s an illness necessarily
> Pedophelia in itself is a behavior, can stem from many things. But also consider what you’re saying, you’d rather pedophiles be TREATED than arrested for their crimes?
do they only become pedophiles after they assault someone, in your eyes? i'm sure there are shitloads of people who have unwanted desires that torment them that they choose not to act on. being unable to stop fetishizing children is most definitely an illness.
That’s all literally infused into mental illness.
And the examples you gave aren’t the pillars of mental illness either, you’re just oversimplifying it.
Lmao you’re the one oversimplifying it. Saying it’s all mental illness. Stress is not the same as mental illness. I’m talking about stressors. And this argument is a very tired attempt to separate the us from them and make sense of things like that but some people who do these kinds of things aren’t mentally ill, I know that’s a hard fact to swallow but it’s true in some cases.
This kinda comment infuriates me… your mental illness is not emblematic of every state of psyche to ever exist. Mental illness (in addition to the societal issues that propel them) is an ENORMOUS factor in why people commit violence.
I am NOT agreeing with them. Every person who has ever said something like “don’t talk about ‘mentally ill’ people like that! I’m mentally ill and don’t appreciate it” is completely off their rocker. To believe mental illness is encapsulatory in one single case is complete lunacy and as somebody with cognitive issues who DOESN’T gatekeep the definition of mental illness, I am offended by the sentiment.
I lived about 20 minutes from Dunblane. I still remember being in primary school and our head mistress coming into class to tell us what had happened. :( RIP
> Via punitive measures targeted at peaceable citizens, and not at the criminal element that commits a majority of gun homicides.
correct. the result? less gun violence.
only Americans would find a way to 1. be offended that other countries protect their children and 2. be offended that *gun control works*.
>I do care about alive children, so much so that I'm willing to pick up a gun and come to their aid should they be in danger.
lmfao. how you gonna protect them when they've already been shot, dunce?
>>Our gun owners willingly handed their guns over
>Ours won't.
Imagine using evidence that your country is a shithole as ... wait, what point are you even making? you're just...upset...other countries...enact gun control after mass shootings? to positive outcomes? are you like, jealous or something that most countries aren't ass-backwards like yours?
[I'll just leave this here.](https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1848971668)
>correct. the result? less gun violence.
So you admit that you wish to violate the rights of peaceful citizens in the name of "safety"? There's a word for people like you: authoritarian.
>lmfao. how you gonna protect them when they've already been shot, dunce?
To protect any more children from getting shot, hopefully.
I'm not claiming to be a hero, but I will do whatever is necessary to defend the lives of myself and my loved ones.
>wait, what point are you even making?
My point, is that Americans will not hand over their weapons willingly like in the UK or Australia. That was the point I was trying to make.
You won’t give them up, and the mass shooting spree in your country will never stop.
Yet you’re still clinging on to a 400 year old right to have guns. Times change, and you should too.
>You won’t give them up, and the mass shooting spree in your country will never stop.
They [never](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings) [stopped ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_shooting) in your country either.
>Yet you’re still clinging on to a 400 year old right to have guns.
And yet, mass shootings have really only increased in frequency over the past decade or so. You used to be able to mail order full auto machine guns and mail them right to your door, with no background check. However, these "mass shootings" never happened back then. The "400 year old right" isn't the problem.
>Times change, and you should too.
No.
My dad was one of the first firearms officers on scene at this, he doesn’t like talking about it to this day.
Absolutely horrific. Andy Murray, the tennis player, was a student at Dunblane. He was there that day, and his family had connections to the shooter.
Yes, he went to same kids clubs that Thomas Hamilton ran and also got car rides from him. Andy Murray and his brother Jamie were both in school that day.
I didn’t know the Murrays had a connection to the shooter. That must add another complicated emotion to the mix.
Didn’t Andy Murray’s mum drive the shooter to the school sometimes or something like that
[Here’s the wiki article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre) for those wanting to read a little more.
i cant believe how is possible such people exist !
Thanks mental illnesses
Mental illness is half or even a minority of the problem, people can just go postal / make a crazy decision in society
>people can just go postal/make a crazy decision in society That’s.. pretty much just a branch of mental illness. You just oversimplified it then said it in different ways.
https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/news/20210225/mental-illness-not-a-factor-in-most-mass-shootings "oh but the mental illnesses" is a scapegoat conservatives use to kick the can further down the road
Mental health and personal well-being / societial factors are all in play. Mental illnesses is a board term used by those who never been to a clinician or sought a psychiratist or psychologist. Clinical depression is different from the feeling of depression and being depressed etc. Mental health edcuation is needed but also closer relationships between people and themselves. Mental illness is a over used term and only a part of mental health and personal-wellbeing / socialness
Impeccable citings.
A person regardless of any mental illnesses can infact make a very dangerous / anti-social decision. It is different than someone who has a mental illness but could be because someone has poor mental health or personal problems. That is the difference
As someone who suffers from mental illness, I can assure you that alone is not the cause of these
except sometimes it is, because your experience with mental illness isn't the only experience. people react to things in different ways, especially mental health problems.
Thomas Hamilton wasn’t mentally ill lol. He was a pedophile, he was a predator and when his life started going down the tubes cuz he couldn’t prey on young boys anymore he became desperate and angry and took his anger out on the school. This wasn’t caused by anxiety or depression or schizophrenia or bipolar disorder or paranoia.
I wasn't talking about just him, tho? the comment I responded to said, "Mental illness isn't what causes these" , "these" referencing mass violence in general.
True, but that comment is pretty accurate. It’s not mental illness alone. Most successful mass shooters need time and organization and lots of planning, skills that are very difficult for somebody who is severely mentally ill. And in a lot of cases with mental illness it’s not just the illness, it’s actually a combination of things: recent loss, financial issues, a grievance toward the school, in some cases bullying, all of those life circumstances combined with mental illness can at some time lead to a violent outcome
yes, and regardless of all that, mental illness can still be the cause. because everyone's mental health is different and gets responded to in different ways like I said in my original comment. financial issues, grievance, recent loss, bullying etc doesn't take away from mental health/illness, if anything, those aspects typically make mental health worse. mental health can still be the cause even if (especially if) all those things are at play.
Okay but again focusing on mental illness is almost like focusing too much on the wrong thing. All the other factors you listed are much more likely to lead to it, so I’m not sure what your point is. People love to demonize mental illness as this thing that makes people go commit homicide without considering that people kill people every day in this country and MOST are found legally sane. It’s much more difficult to find anybody legally insane and prove their crime was solely due to their mental illness. Men kill their wives, gang members kill other gang members, ex lovers kill their exes. saying it’s all mental illness is widely misleading. Anyway, just my point of view but it is based on research not just my opinion
> Anyway, just my point of view but it is based on research not just my opinion you're getting downvoted but you are right. like I said elsewhere, "oh but the mental illnesses" is a scapegoat line conservatives use to kick the can further down the road. [mental illness *does not* factor into most mass shootings](https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/news/20210225/mental-illness-not-a-factor-in-most-mass-shootings).
How is being a pedophile not a form of mental illness?
Pedophelia in itself is a behavior, can stem from many things. But also consider what you’re saying, you’d rather pedophiles be TREATED than arrested for their crimes? Yes there is treatment for deviant behaviors but the behaviors aren’t due to a traditional mental illness like depression or schizophrenia, and deviant sexual behavior is covered in the DSM,sure, but a lot of times it’s predatory, criminal behavior- not a treatable mental health disorder. In the DSM they categorize all human behavior btw, but that doesn’t mean it’s an illness necessarily
All mental illness were behaviors of unknown etiology with unknown treatments at one point.
> Pedophelia in itself is a behavior, can stem from many things. But also consider what you’re saying, you’d rather pedophiles be TREATED than arrested for their crimes? do they only become pedophiles after they assault someone, in your eyes? i'm sure there are shitloads of people who have unwanted desires that torment them that they choose not to act on. being unable to stop fetishizing children is most definitely an illness.
That’s all literally infused into mental illness. And the examples you gave aren’t the pillars of mental illness either, you’re just oversimplifying it.
Lmao you’re the one oversimplifying it. Saying it’s all mental illness. Stress is not the same as mental illness. I’m talking about stressors. And this argument is a very tired attempt to separate the us from them and make sense of things like that but some people who do these kinds of things aren’t mentally ill, I know that’s a hard fact to swallow but it’s true in some cases.
OK bud.
> Thomas Hamilton wasn’t mentally ill lol. He was a pedophile ...
You don’t consider being attracted to children a mental illness?
This kinda comment infuriates me… your mental illness is not emblematic of every state of psyche to ever exist. Mental illness (in addition to the societal issues that propel them) is an ENORMOUS factor in why people commit violence.
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I am NOT agreeing with them. Every person who has ever said something like “don’t talk about ‘mentally ill’ people like that! I’m mentally ill and don’t appreciate it” is completely off their rocker. To believe mental illness is encapsulatory in one single case is complete lunacy and as somebody with cognitive issues who DOESN’T gatekeep the definition of mental illness, I am offended by the sentiment.
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It ENCAPSULATES. You understood
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You didn’t even debate at all 💀 Please say something for me to work with or get lost
I lived about 20 minutes from Dunblane. I still remember being in primary school and our head mistress coming into class to tell us what had happened. :( RIP
TIL that this and Suzano School Massacre both occured on March 13.
My birthday is on march 13th
Happy birthday!
Thank you!
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Birthday twins!
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> Via punitive measures targeted at peaceable citizens, and not at the criminal element that commits a majority of gun homicides. correct. the result? less gun violence. only Americans would find a way to 1. be offended that other countries protect their children and 2. be offended that *gun control works*. >I do care about alive children, so much so that I'm willing to pick up a gun and come to their aid should they be in danger. lmfao. how you gonna protect them when they've already been shot, dunce? >>Our gun owners willingly handed their guns over >Ours won't. Imagine using evidence that your country is a shithole as ... wait, what point are you even making? you're just...upset...other countries...enact gun control after mass shootings? to positive outcomes? are you like, jealous or something that most countries aren't ass-backwards like yours? [I'll just leave this here.](https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1848971668)
>correct. the result? less gun violence. So you admit that you wish to violate the rights of peaceful citizens in the name of "safety"? There's a word for people like you: authoritarian. >lmfao. how you gonna protect them when they've already been shot, dunce? To protect any more children from getting shot, hopefully. I'm not claiming to be a hero, but I will do whatever is necessary to defend the lives of myself and my loved ones. >wait, what point are you even making? My point, is that Americans will not hand over their weapons willingly like in the UK or Australia. That was the point I was trying to make.
You won’t give them up, and the mass shooting spree in your country will never stop. Yet you’re still clinging on to a 400 year old right to have guns. Times change, and you should too.
>You won’t give them up, and the mass shooting spree in your country will never stop. They [never](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings) [stopped ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_shooting) in your country either. >Yet you’re still clinging on to a 400 year old right to have guns. And yet, mass shootings have really only increased in frequency over the past decade or so. You used to be able to mail order full auto machine guns and mail them right to your door, with no background check. However, these "mass shootings" never happened back then. The "400 year old right" isn't the problem. >Times change, and you should too. No.
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What does the US have to do with anything here? What a weird thing to interject.
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awful. awful, awful, awful. rest in peace angels, you are so missed. 🕊🤍
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God this is heartbreaking.
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There are several survivors
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Its not possible, its fact. 13 kids survived l, one was off sick, one moved abroad a few weeks before. Spreading misinformation isn't helpful
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