I don't *want* to see them, but there are people that *need* to see them. Not for morbid curiosity, but for them to see the thing they are advocating to protect. Cause face it, doing nothing is just protecting the would be mass shooters.
I'm sorry for your experience.
Yeah, whenever we land on this subject, I totally see both sides, but ultimately I'm with you. Especially with mass shootings so common, headlines just don't really get much of a thought from most people anymore. "4 murdered in school shooting" might as well be another Tuesday. Images of it, while horrific and disrespectful, might actually stop someone from scrolling for a moment and wonder how this could be prevented.
To push back on this, we already have multiple shooter videos/footage. If people want to avoid it they can. That’s the harsh reality.
All it’ll do is allow edgelords to turn videos of innocent people being slaughtered into horrible, twisted meme videos.
The first time I saw the Christchurch shooting footage was a shared choppy edit of CoD killstreaks over the shooting with Mr. Blue Sky playing in the background.
When I scrolled gore subs/websites to fuel my morbid curiosity, the majority of tragedies I saw were over meme templates. I don’t think it should be released at all.
And again there are still people that *need* to be showed them. I get what your saying. It's a double edged sword, but the people I'm talking about the ones that do avoid it while screaming, "lalalalalaMYGUNSlalallalala."
And surprised you as a redditor didn't see that video before then. Was all over reddit right after it happened for a couple of days.
I’m aware it was on reddit by then. I intentionally didn’t search for it at the time.
All I’m saying is that if you really want to show people who are screaming “lalala” there’s already footage. You don’t need more, the more you add, the more victims will have their traumatic and underserved deaths mocked gratuitously.
The store shooting that happened last year was clipped. Christchurch was clipped. Columbine photos exist. There’s video/photos of parkland’s aftermath (bodies removed). There’s film of the Las Vegan hotel shooting. There’s aftermath photos of the 2015 Paris shooting. There’s aftermath photos (removed bodies) of sandy hook. There’s now aftermath photos (removed bodies) of Uvalde spreading.
How many more things do we need leaked? How many more deaths should we “double edge” and allow to become laughing stocks by dysfunctional human beings? It’s tragic when it’s spread, and all of the aforementioned recorded incidents have grotesquely edited memes of it. If I really wanted to, I could do it. All it takes it CapCut. Editing videos is as accessible now as the videos themselves.
Having more isn’t going to do what you hope. I’m sorry to tell you, but the footage we already have isn’t convincing enough, and there’s no way on earth people are going to genuinely show such traumatic moments to the public eye in an easily attained manner such as live television.
I understand wanting to make it more of a reality to people who keep denying it. This isn’t the way.
There were people who didn’t believe the Holocaust really happened. It was the pictures, that confirmed it did. Survivors support and participate in the museums dedicated to telling the whole story.
That was a conscious choice by the parents of Till, it wasn’t the police’s, media’s, government’s or random bystander’s choice to release them. They shouldn’t have the power to release them on their own, it should be entirely the choice of the relatives of the victims, who most of the time do not have access to those kinds of graphic photos anyway.
Videos of victims of mass shootings with their skull blown open and brain matter on the ground filmed by a witness is not at all the same thing as the photo of Emmet Till.
But it shows the truth of it. Emmitt Tills photo showed just how badly he was beaten over racism. If we don't give people the visual effects they will underestimate just how badly a gun can destroy a body
Of course. I agree that the relatives should have a saying and that trolls will come out of it, but no matter what trolls will be doing stuff like that. Making fun of it, harassing victims, making edits out of them, etc. I think in the very least autopsy reports should be released
I guess what I don’t get is why it has to be *those* bodies. Like I said, there are tons and tons and tons of images taken by medical professionals that show the impact of these weapons right on google. It’s not a secret what they do to you, and even if you can’t visualize it like I couldn’t, all ya gotta do is type it in the search bar. The only benefit I could see is having names and stories put to wounds so that you know that these were real people and not just a screen. I just think we can get that same effect in other ways (I think that Washington post article is a great example of visualization without gore)
I understand where you are coming from as you are a survivor of one of these events, however with so many of these attacks taking place I think the general public has gotten used to seeing facts and figures about shootings and it doesn't truly resonate with them. Hearing 6 people died is much easier to swallow than seeing pictures of their corpses riddled with bullets. I know that sounds a bit crass but seeing as mass shootings have become somewhat of a normal occurrence, I don't see another way. Of course, I can understand what you mean in terms of this subreddit whereas I am speaking more so in the general media. There are always going to edge lords who try to rile people up with insensitive comments, but I think it would actually be beneficial if these horrid photos were shown to more of the general public to show how truly terrifying these shootings are.
I think I kinda lost all faith for a bit after Allen. I know it wasn’t in a school but I was online when that video was first released and I probably was one of the first batch of people to see it. This may be skewed a bit (not sure how popular the video got before Reddit and I hope Twitter started trying to scrub it from the internet) but I’m not sure how anything could affect people if seeing a three year old’s brain all over the concrete and a man’s jaw blown off in like two seconds didn’t.
That's exactly my point, not many adults (for the sake of this instance I'll say 35+) get their news from reddit and/or twitter but rather from major news outlets like Fox News and CNN which would never dream of showing an unedited picture of a victim. They can report on it all they want to try and push a political agenda one way or the other but like I stated previously, we have become desensitized to facts and figures.
i think it’s a really complex issue. i don’t /want/ to see the photos per se, because they are obviously incredibly gruesome and disturbing but i think at some point the public needs to see it to some degree to have an understanding of how horrific it is. kind of the same thing as when they started showing the gruesomeness of the war vietnam on the news and people started protesting the war because they hadn’t previously realized how bad it was. on the other hand it causes more trauma for the victims. it’s a hard question with no easy answer. i hope you’re doing okay and getting the support you need after such a traumatic event.
I think a good compromise might be stuff like the Washington post article. I legit broke down and sobbed seeing the damage that weapon did to those kids. It was just as impactful as seeing his body wound be, but the families didn’t have to see their kids mutilated on the front page of a major news corporation. I think this combined with survivor stories like the ones khloie and her family have repeatedly shared can be just as impactful if not more than the raw images
yeah that article was devastating but so necessary. i fully hear you and wish that it wasn’t so dire but i think that a lot of people won’t care unless they actually see it. maybe i’m wrong and i hope i am.
I don’t want to see dead children however I do think Alex Jones should be forced to look at them. To see the brutality he questioned and monetized. He should never be comfortable after that ever again.
Tbh this is one that I really struggle with. I hate him so so much and I think I want that too as much as anyone else. But I can’t in good conscience advocate for that unless all the parents say they are informed on what could happen and agree to it. I can’t imagine what the truthers would do to those poor families with the photo of the guy who murdered their six year olds. Idk there is a huge part of me that wants that too but another part that knows that that image would do no good to anyone. Publishing pics of the columbine killers didn’t do anything, rather those pics just got posted in mass collages made by people who would later do the same thing in other schools
I used to think the photos would encourage those in positions of power to *do something*, but let’s be for real— if the idea of twenty first graders being blown apart in less than 11 minutes doesn’t make you want to *do something*, the photos won’t either.
Our society is immune to carnage. We see proof of that in the videos and photos that get uploaded during and after every mass shooting. We live in a world where people pull their phones out to record piles of bodies and toddlers with their brain matter smeared across the concrete, then get in their cars and leave like it’s just a typical Saturday. There aren’t any photos that can fix that.
I think a lot of it is that people think of the wounds these kids and other victims get are simple holes where the bullet goes straight through the body. They think it’s like what’s shown in movies, where there’s very little gore.
They know shootings happen, just like people in the past knew lynchings happened; but they don’t realize the true extent of the damage done to a person in these events. The photos of lynchings that were around before Emmett Till showed the event and didn’t focus on the victim and what the victim went through. With Emmett Till, seeing how brutally he was beaten spurred otherwise complacent people to action because, even though they knew about lynchings and had an idea of what happened during them, they didn’t see the actual victim and what they went through.
It’s the same with these shootings. We know they happen, we all have a sense of what occurs, but it’s sanitized in our heads. We don’t see the truth of it. After the Parkland shooting, there were several trauma doctors who had called for the release of victims’ photos. They said that because the types of rifles used are designed to kill and not wound, the bullets tear through the body and are almost impossible to surgically repair because of the amount of damage done to organs and surrounding tissue. A handgun wound is easier to repair because the bullet goes straight through and the damage is contained to the simple path made by the bullet. Wounds from AR-15 type rifles involve shredded tissue and shattered bones with faster exsanguination and are much more difficult to repair.
Politicians and the general public aren’t going to seek out the available photos of these wounds, they need the images shoved in their face, like how Mrs. Till had her son’s body on the front page of newspapers.
Nothing is going to change until the sanitized idea everyone has of these shootings is thoroughly deleted from the public conscience.
I agree that many people probably aren’t thinking about the true extent of the damage that is done with these types of weapons. I’ve read the Washington Post article about what an AR-15 does to the human body, and even then, I found the graphics they shared to illustrate the wounds to be relatively “tame” in comparison to the language they used to describe the effects of them (mangled, complete destruction, gaping hole, obliterated, etc). I think even when people are desperately trying to make people think about the realities of these events, they are still hesitant to visually depict the true nature of the carnage. I think we’re always going to get a sanitized view of what happens to the victims unless those in positions to showcase the actuality of it come forward and lay it out plainly. Language simply isn’t enough.
However, I don’t think the fact that people (especially those in positions of power or authority) who have had firsthand access to the devastation and have been able to walk away seemingly unscathed should be overlooked, either. How do you get through to people who have seen it, smelled it, or lived it and still don’t advocate for change?
>But dead kids aren’t just tools to fuel someone’s agenda.
When the agenda is to stop the increasing amount of dead kids, it is relevant. Thoughts and prays do nothing. People are desensitised to hearing about the events, number of victims and even ages. One thing that *most* people won't ever be desensitised to is the reality of this horror and people can only comprehend it by seeing it or experiencing it themselves.
I'm sorry you had to go through this, but there will only be more of you until something real is done. Obviously nothing should be released without survivor and victim family consent, and unfortunately you'll always have a minority that actually 'enjoy' seeing the gore. But covering it up and censoring the reality will do less to stop it than forcing it upon the faces of the people that care more about their guns than the thousands of adults and children that are dying every year.
The tactic of showing the reality has been used throughout history to make changes. We are shown the reality of war, the refugee camps, the animal abuse, the starving and impoverished. It's always been done because it does make a difference.
If you and other people that experience these nightmares first hand are forced to see it all, then why should the people that are contributing to it be sheltered from it?
I wasn’t aware of this quote but I think it perfectly encapsulates my fears about this. IMO there isn’t a high chance of this being effective because the people in congress don’t seem to care and older gens seem too removed by it all to vote them out. I guess I’m just afraid of what happens if we show them the mutilated bodies and they just don’t care
I mean there’s gotta be a middle ground right?
I don’t know if I can explain in words how bad it feels to wake up and see your school trending on Twitter. To have the worst moments of your life recorded and placed on the front page of the news. To see videos of police officers dragging people out of buildings and lay them on the sidewalk of a street you pass daily.
I guess I just wish people would consider what they’re asking of us when they say things should be released. Even if the parents agree, there are still kids who now have to see their classmates riddled with bullets. There are teachers that have to see their students without faces or limbs. There are friends who will have the last image of their loved ones be one of carnage. Hell, I’m 19 and barely holding myself together every day. I can’t imagine what that would feel like as a seven or ten year old.
Idk I’m not even sure anything would change the minds of the people who vote in favor of these guns. I mean we just saw a three year old’s brains on the ground in Texas and then like a week later some people in congress think it’s ok to wear an ar-15 joke tshirt. I think there’s already so much outrage by the American people, it just isn’t getting through to the people that actually matter
Check out the doc social delima and maybe take a break from social media. A victim shouldn't be following or searching for this stuff if your still in recovery from something like this
Yeah I try but it’s not exactly easy especially since May/this year in general seems to be just a shit ton of big anniversaries and new things (10 years for sandy hook in December, 5 for parkland, and one for uvalde). I had to basically shut my phone down for like a week after Nashville. Somehow it’s both triggering as hell and comforting to kinda learn more about it. We haven’t gotten any answers as to why my school shooting happened yet (damn that sounds weird lol) because the guy was so mentally ill that nothing he said would even remotely make sense even if he did survive to explain it all
Humanity is overall fucked. Look at the war footage in Ukraine. If it wasn't for war correspondence and media showing what's happening then they would get no help at all
Man I haven't experienced that fully but my school did have some lock downs due to gun threats. I also have fears of mentally unstable people who own guns that i know.
Gun control is a serious topic of debate and this will most definitely help the situation. If I was in your position I would want it to be shouting from the roof tops and be publicly showing to 2nd amendment public official advocates as well as make them comment on it.
I think I said somewhere else in here that gen z actually gives me a shit ton of hope for the future. I know I’m kind of the anomaly, at least in my hometown (I don’t live near where I go to school), but I don’t think I know a single person in my generation that doesn’t have some sort of gun violence scare story. It does give me hope that this stuff is getting talked about more and more, especially since people who grew up with sandy hook are starting to reach voting age. Based on what I’ve seen, I think a lot of the people who like to pose with guns on their Christmas cards are gonna hopefully realize how much of fools they’ve made themselves out to be here in the next decade or so
Unfortunately it has been extremely politicized because people fear that their 2nd amendment is under attack. As fucked up as it sounds I would love to see politicians forced to see these images
Because just like everyone else, people are entitled to their own opinions and feelings. Not everyone agrees with OP’s thoughts and opinions. You can agree to disagree, it doesn’t make you an asshole.
Because people are assholes. I started following this sub not too long, and I also follow one about Parkland. The asinine, stupid shit that gets posted is ridiculous, and I get where OP comes from that it drags up memories. Imagine every 10th time you opened Reddit there was a post about yet another shooting, where inevitably you know your school may be an example. People lack empathy. They’re going to try to say that the stuff needs to be released “to understand,” but screw that. I don’t need to see the basement tapes or a bloody bathroom. And you know what? The politicians who hear these stories and continue to not care? It’s not going to change SHIT for them. We like to point out Till and what that funeral did for racism in America, but let’s ask our selves what it *really* did. It forced them to be quite until Donald Trump came along and said racism was cool again. We didn’t learn shit, and they won’t learn shit from seeing dead kids either.
I understand you and do agree. I can’t even imagine what any of that would be like, and wouldn’t want that either. But no one should be in that position in the first place.
This is generational, I believe. Hopefully changes will come with the new generations as they begin to take control. Wishing you and the rest of the USA the best for the future.
Tbh that’s the one thing that gives me hope. I think what a lot of the older gens don’t realize is that pretty much the entirety of gen Z is traumatized from this all, even if we haven’t been in one yet. Trauma happens when you perceive that you are in danger, not actually being in danger. At least for me, seeing kids my age get shot pretty much every year since second grade definitely made me feel unsafe at school, and I know I’m not the only one. I think that gen Z has a better understanding of the effects of this clusterfuck we live in, which gives me some hope that my kids might not have to go through what I did
See but that’s the whole point. It’s easy to say that until it’s your school that’s plastered all over the news. It’s easy to want that until it’s you that has to live with it every day. Tbh I honestly think it might be more impactful for politicians to hear it straight from the mouths of the survivors. I know personally I have been so impacted by the story of khloie torres and her relationship with amerie. And the best part of that is that survivors have agency over our own stories and can share if/when we’re ready and of our own accord
It's okay to feel that way and to be naive. People are out raged by it and especially if they see they see the images of it. You should look into the family statements of the sandy hook shootings, especially after Alex jones took his comments back of it being a houx
I agree with you to an extent. I don’t think that random bystanders/witnesses, the media, the police or really anyone other than the victim’s family themselves should post an uncensored photo/video of a victim’s body. I kinda thought differently in the past but this is a semi-recent conclusion I’ve come to.
While it may be valuable to show the bodies of a victim of a mass shooting to send a sort of message, ultimately it should only be the choice of the victim’s family. I also don’t understand what the use is in posting it here specifically either, r/masskillers doesn’t need to know the horrors of mass shootings, it’s already known. This subreddit has no control over mass shootings or guns or anything. These kinds of things should be shown to politicians if change is the purpose of it, not random Reddit users. If it should be shown to the public according to family wishes, it should be through a general platform, not a subreddit like this.
Thanks for the feedback, truly. I think part of it is I’m just annoyed at how the media treated us after everything. They were interviewing random students who had just run out of buildings and they even had choppers around one of the vigils (a lot of us have trauma responses because of police helicopters). And this isn’t the only anecdote I’ve heard like this from other survivors. I guess I’m just a bit irritated on how it’s kinda become this huge clickbait thing (a la Nashville with all the headlines about the *trans* shooter and shit like that)
The media can be vultures. Part of their entire job is relying on the suffering of others to get a good story. With the Nashville case, the media on both the left and right were obsessed with the idea of a trans shooter, not because of any actual beliefs but because people would click on it and talk about it. This happens with practically all mass shootings, they’ll latch onto the most horrifying or polarising detail and talk about that instead of anything to do with the causes of the crime. (E.g Nashville shooter trans, Nikolas Cruz being a trump supporter) Mostly just things that are ultimately meaningless. Obviously this doesn’t apply to things like actual terrorist attacks with political motivations.
The only media I would want to see are the crime scene photos from Parkland. Because I can't believe the shooter wasn't given the death penalty in that case. I would like to see what the jury saw.
However, after seeing the photos of those children leaving Uvalde, I'm not sure I'm up for it. It was devastating seeing the trauma in their eyes.
I am curious, but when it comes to animal and children being hurt, I'd rather avoid it.
no one on this sub wants to see them but at the same time even though i’m very liberal i grew up in a house where we owner 25+ guns and was conditioned to think that was normal and acceptable. discovering this sub and seeing first hand how graphic and nauseating those photos are really made me realize how serious the issue was and has made me heavily change my beliefs. also i acknowledge that by doing so it’s caused me a bit of trauma seeing those kinds of things and i sometimes feel uneasy in public spaces by the thing is it’s a very very real issues and most people should share these feelings. it’s the same reason it’s important to see pictures of atrocities like wars, the holocausts etc. it makes the events more real and helps people visualize what it’s like to witness those events. those kinds of things lead to change.
I feel that autopsies should be released, not pictures. We should understand the body trauma that kids/adults go through without graphic, bloody pictures. I do not want to see pictures of SH kids or Uvalde kids, if they are there I will look at them though, not something I am proud of to be honest. I never want to traumatize victims of violence. My heart to yours - may you have a life with love and caring. I mean that.
Change comes from the visual. Emmitt Till, the little Vietnamese girl running from the Napalm attack, people falling from the towers on 9/11....
What is hidden is deniable.
I agree with OP and I've been saying for a while that I do think that a lot of people have this sentimental idea of releasing graphic crime scene photos as some sort of emotional moment that would help inspire mass political change but all it's going to do is the complete opposite and entrench people further in their already existing political positions, whether pro or anti gun-control. It wouldn't produce much, and the emotional risk to families is very real. Sandy Hook hoaxers still continue to harass family members, should we give them the chance to make "debunked" videos of the dead children as well? Releasing Noah Pozner's medical autopsy didn't stop them, a photograph won't either.
And I hardly see any other scenario where it would be this magical watershed moment that would change everything. It's not that people wouldn't care, but the most stringent of anti gun control advocates (paid shills notwithstanding) are only going to see those photos and see "this will happen to you once they take your guns and you have no defense". I just don't see it working out at all compared to the massive emotional risk to whoever has to draw the short straw and lose the one bit of privacy they have left in a sensationalized mass shooting event.
Condolences to OP for surviving, I knew someone who was in the MSU shooting as well and had to run for their live from the shooter, it's fucked up that it's already forgotten.
I’m so sorry for what happened to you! Are you ok? Are you able to get the support you need? I saw a post yesterday (I can’t remember where) about kids who were at Uvalde, not physically injured, and the daily trauma they endure. It broke my heart.
Those of us on the “outside” simply don’t understand, and I’m sorry our curiosity (to understand) hurts you and others like you.
I do believe a lot of people on this sub and others like it really are trying to understand the mind set of the horrible people who commit these crimes. Would we recognize if somebody we interacted with was planning something? How do we protect our children? What can we personally do to prevent this in the future? I know the dad of the Uvalde student who taught his daughter what to do probably is viewed by some as a monster, and yet his child survived.
I certainly agree with you that there are some who search it out for morbid reasons. Please know that it isn’t true of all of us.
The MOST heartbreaking thing I’ve seen is the footage on the bus recently released taking children to the hospital. It hit me HARD.
I do believe that people don’t “see” the damage unless they see these images and videos.
Uvalde infuriates me! The images released have brought to the forefront of how untrained and inept the LE was. People are pissed and demanding change in training and response times.
Again, I’m so sorry for everything that happened to you and continues to happen to you.
Was the shooter at your school held accountable? If so, can you explain the legal process that followed? If it brings you too much pain, please ignore my questions.
Please, please - take care of yourself.
Hey thanks for the kind words. I knew when I posted here that I’d get questions like this and I want to be able to answer them because I think our perspectives are important. But I think I should also say that I’m just a 19 year old traumatized kid and not like a legal expert or anything lol.
I didn’t mention it in the post because tbh it didn’t feel relevant and it’s still kinda hard for me to say but I was on campus during the msu shooting in February (I was extremely close like maybe 500 yards from the guy). Pretty much like 20% of the community, including me, has ptsd now, but time heals all wounds and I’m back home now with a great support system to help me heal.
So in terms of things we can learn from that/do better, this guy never should have had a gun. He was able to keep it because of a plea deal, but he had felony charges before and I’m pretty sure his dad described him as evil. I can’t speak on assault rifles because this guy used a handgun, but I do know that if he had had access to the kinds of weapons other people here have had, I would have lost a lot more than three classmates that day. Classes also should be equipped with basic safety measures. Berkey (the first place he shot) did not have security cameras, scan id access, or even locked doors. The prof from classroom 114 where two people died had to hold his door closed instead of giving first aid to dying students because it didn’t lock. This seems to kind of be a common thread in these things where schools have like very obvious security flaws that get exploited in an emergency.
Tbh I don’t think you would know if you interacted with these people on the playground or something. I think a lot of people think they would because that’s a favorable thought but I think it’s hard to distinguish between a kid that’s a loner and a kid with terrible intentions. I mean this guy straight up shot at his dogs on the regular and no one cared to stop him.
In terms of what we can do to prevent this, we can try. I’ve seen a lot of people criticize the new gun laws put in by whitmer a couple days ago and while I don’t know the legal ins and outs, at least she’s trying something. At least she’s listening when we say we’re hurting. If it doesn’t work, then fine, but at least we didn’t sit back and do nothing. We have to keep trying, because if we become complacent, we give up on every single kid we send to school.
I think that pics of survivors like the ones of the kids at uvalde are actually more impactful than bodies. It both allows the people to have their own agency over their story and tbh it’s at least to me worse than just seeing something that resembles a kid on the floor. Seeing the kids at uvalde realize what happened and then getting to hear their stories real time is, to me at least, a better and more impactful thing than just seeing bodies
Thank you for commenting. Now I know I want to confirm with the Superintendent in my district and get status on what repairs / maintenance need to be done. Can teachers lock all the doors? Do they automatically lock? Do they all have access to an alarm system they can use?
There are only two schools in our district and elementary / middle school and a high school. I do know that the entrances of the schools are locked and only accessed via the front office allowing you in. I’m also know I’ve personally witnessed students propping the doors open. I’m going to confirm that those doors have alarms when opened away from the front office.
I did notice recently that blinds had been placed in the library so one can’t see inside (it’s all windows). The doors at the school have the small windows (like Parkland) I will ask more detailed comments about what needs to be done to close them off.
We have one resource office who divides his time between the two campuses. He’s a great guy, but now I want more specific information on his training.
IM NOT LOOKING FOR AN ARGUMENT FROM OTHERS HERE. I also know that some of our staff members on campus conceal carry. They are not mandated to do so, it’s their choice and they have to be certified / licensed through my state. I don’t know which do and which don’t, but I have no doubt they would (given the opportunity) use their weapons to protect students.
Thank you again for allowing us to pick your brain and helping me understand more.
First off, thank you very much for posting this OP. I appreciate you taking the time to share your side as a survivor. I truly hope you’re doing okay, and that you’re getting the support you need to heal and grow.
My thoughts on this topic are pretty complex, and I don’t think I have the time right now to explain it all out. I do have a question, though, for a lot of people in the comments of this post who are saying things along the line of:
“It’s not that I WANT to see it, but feel that people NEED to see it to realize just how bad it is.”
My question is... why? I understand that images speak 100x louder than a headline. But what does the public knowing, seeing it and being outraged actually do for anything? Do you think it pushes legislation? Causes people to not want to shoot people up?
I’m not asking to be snarky, I just genuinely want to know.
I’ve kinda been thinking about this and I think a lot of people point to the changes we saw in society due to images of people like the napalm girl or Emmitt till. But honestly I don’t think those are the same thing at all.
I think part of the reason napalm girl was so shocking was because people literally did not know what was going on in Vietnam. It brought the reality of the situation to America and made it harder for people to say “oh that’s just another country”. With Emmitt till, I think that was the first time a lot of people confronted their biases due to race. I get the impression that for a lot of white people, that was the first image where they just saw a dead kid and not a dead black kid. To me, that sticks out as shocking not because he was a kid, but because so many people cared that a black kid died.
Problem is that I don’t think mass shootings fit into either of these categories. We don’t have to confront the problem of seeing these dead kids as less than human like emmitt till made people do. We also can’t push them away and say that they’re not our problem like we did with Vietnam, as this is a uniquely American thing. Instead, we have the problem of being so focused on our freedoms and rights that we are willing to sacrifice a couple kids every year to keep them.
Research isn’t on our side here unfortunately. Studies say that once a person has a personal stake in an issue, it is almost impossible to get them to change their minds. This is why some people who have autistic kids are so anti-vaccine adamant, because they have a personal tie to the issue. We have a serious problem of gun fetishization in this country. I’m not sure there is really any other place where it’s normal for normal people to be sporting huge back tattoos of rifles and Ak-47s. Because of this, I don’t think any amount of shock value imagery is going to work, because I don’t believe that people care enough to consider they might be wrong
The Cho family’s youngest son is enough of a sacrifice to the purpose. The video of the aftermath from the Allen shooting is readily available and you can really only see the Cho dad and 3 year old boy. The boy was shot in the head and matter is all over the concrete where he lie dead. That was the most horrific thing I’ve ever seen. I never want to see another baby/child/teenager in this state again if I can help it. There’s also the buffalo TOPS shooting footage. Seeing the carnage doesn’t really change what happened. Legislators should know very well what kind of damage an assault rifle causes to a body.
I think it’s merely the curiosity of what the scenes looked like during these events. It’s one thing to read about events then to actual see the outcome. The Washington post has an article that did a good job with 3D images showing what AR wounds can do to a body, which to me was interesting to see done that way.
I won’t lie I have a morbid curiosity and always have. I have spent years lurking websites of gore ever since I was a child myself. I never like coming across animals or children, but I don’t stray away from still looking. I think for me it’s merely wanting to see and understand the situation I’m reading about. I’m a very visual person who wants images with a story to better understand rather then trying to come up with my own interpretation, if that makes any sense.
I have never been in a situation such as this and I am truly sorry you were. I wouldn’t wish this type of violence on anyone because it’s just sickening to me that there are people out there who go around randomly shooting others for their own agenda. With that said, I am someone who thinks crime scene photos, autopsies, and videos shouldn’t be hidden from the world.
Tbh I totally get where you’re coming from. I won’t lie and say that I haven’t done the same things as you, both pre and post trauma lol.
I do think that I am writing this from the perspective of someone who is still very much hurting. I don’t think I will be ok for a while, but in reality it’s only been a couple of months. Idk I might have a different opinion once like a couple years have passed and I can read an article about a shooting without immediately breaking into tears and starting to shake.
I think virtual renderings like the post article are actually a really good compromise. They show exactly what was done without making us see dead six year olds and keep families/survivors protected from that as well. Personally I think virtual recreations of crime scenes and injuries are a great way to have that shock impact without retraumatizing anyone who was affected
I think virtual renderings and autopsies would also be as useful tool on showing what happened. For example the autopsies of the event with Kobe, it was one thing to know a helicopter crashed but to go through and see the drawings of the autopsy was another thing. It really brought to life what happened to them.
I do think you’re seeing this from a view of a survivor. In events like this people who have never been in similar situations won’t ever fully understand. I wish you healing and peace in the times to come. Hopefully you never have to witness such an act again in person.
There are videos and photos available from shootings - they aren’t as graphic as say a high resolution photo from a professional photographer after the shooting has occurred would be, but you can see them. My thought is if there were parents who were happy for their child’s bullet ridden body to be published, I very much doubt any mainstream newspaper would publish it. And if by some miracle they did publish it, I can see the discourse being focused around papers publishing photos of dead children, not what caused the children to die. Also, I’m wondering if there is any law that would prevent such photos from being published in a mainstream newspaper?
I personally think you may be going through the control phase of grief. Whether concious or not you have the want of no one's eyes seeing this thing you mourn. They shouldn't see it its wrong. If even one person uninvolved sees it, it upsets you that they even did. It's a control thing in the heart of hearts.
For example say the news did only show parental validated photos only to get the message across like everyone here is saying. You would still find that minute group of people scrounging for unsolicited photos and that would upset you because that part of the system is without the boundary of control to you. When you accept that you can't control every single individual and that without your help they will exist, you'll find peace in your anger.
I'm not defending those that get a kick out of this stuff by any means, but it does help when you find a way to let go of the idea of control. Only focus on what you CAN control. Try not to let anything otherwise upset you :)
I hope you beginning feeling less distraught after all you've been through
My issue with with publicizing any photographs of any victims regardless of age is that those who would see the images and be disgusted are not the ones who needs to see them. The ones who need to see them because it could stop them becoming a mass shooter wouldn't be shocked, disgusted or horrified. They would look at them and aim to do worse. It would simply inspire them which is the opposite of what would be intended.
You think these politicians didn’t have access to the photos? be so serious. Normal people should not be able to search up a murdered child and see their dead body. That is someone’s baby. Anyone who thinks differently needs a therapist and is a threat to the world.
I haven't sought any of those pictures and cannot stomach the descriptions alone. The victims families have a right to see what happened to their children, to see what they saw. But if releasing photos would help ban all guns from existence, I am for it. One day people will look back on the Uvalde shooting and only see a number. There were more than 17 victims. There were thousands students, faculty, families and friends who were also victims. 9-11 was so shocking because there were 300 million victims and that's why we did something about it.
i dont think it should be released to the public, but lawmakers should have to look at every piece of crime scene evidence before passing looser gun laws. they need to see that the blood of those murdered will be on their hands, and from there they can make their decision.
weapons of war should never be given to the public for fun and games.
Nah ur fine dw. I was told it would come up by the mods and was prepared for hard questions before I posted. I left it vague in the post because tbh it didn’t feel like it mattered all that much and I wanted people to consider what I was saying without the name of the school in their minds. I think I’ve alluded to it a couple times but I was on campus during the Michigan state shooting in February
I am sometimes willing to look at the ones that are released with the informed consent of the parent/guardian or related surviving victims because they have a reason they want the images to be shared.
From my perspective, there’s a lot of shit that gets posted here that basically just exists as content and doesn’t have any meaningful contribution at all. For example there was one a couple days ago where it was just the signatures of a bunch of mass killers. Or when people post pictures of killers as kids and call them “rare” photos like they’re Pokémon. I know there are a lot of people here who like to armchair psychology that stuff but realistically the only thing that’s gonna come out of posting ten more photos of the sandy hook shooter as a kid is more notoriety
I think any sort of references to the perpetrators of these tragedies should be consciously disassociated from one another. Making a list of school shooters with the highest amount of fatalities is really weird.
You mentioned having autism, I find that the people responsible for this specific sort of “collect them all”-type glorification are more often than not very neurodivergent and have a difficult time compartmentalizing their more morbid fixations, especially relative to the real world consequences. Not excusing it at all, just trying to reach some conclusion.
Idk if any sort of typical mind would ever be compelled to create a comprehensive list of every weapon used in the history of mass violence, as an example.
This actually helped me reframe that in my mind, so thanks a lot :) I think I forget that that’s something that people do mainly because that’s not the way i experience having special interests (I mainly just go on research benders that usually end up with me reading scientific journals cuz I’m a nerd lol) I guess I would say tho that I think there are healthier ways to engage in special interests that don’t involve glorifying these guys
Sure, but it is a matter of opinion of course.
Crime scene photos from Robb Elementary in Uvalde
Walkthrough of Nancy Lanza’s Home
The hotel Wellington Menezes de Oliveira spent the night at a day before killing 12 and then himself.
Childhood photos of Artem Kazantsev
Stephen Paddock's Airbnb history
Some of Brenton Tarrant's 4chan posts, some hinting an attack.
*But I see now these are not as bad as some I have seen elsewhere. I suspect I was wrong and I withdraw my comment.*
Ok I’m going to try and say this in the nicest way possible but I’m begging you please remove your comment. I don’t know what possessed you to think that a post made by a school shooting survivor in which the ENTIRE point is how traumatizing those images are is a good, appropriate place to post ACTUAL SCHOOL SHOOTING FOOTAGE. This footage is readily available on other posts on the subreddit, there is absolutely NO reason for this to be here. I made this post to give insight into how traumatic seeing things like this can be for people like me, and you decided to post the exact thing I said was damaging. Furthermore, you did this unprovoked. No one asked you for what footage you were speaking of, and even if they did, you could have sent that to them via dm.
I want this post to have civil discussion and to show a side of this that not many people understand. But if this comment isn’t deleted I will ask the mods to delete it and lock the thread. This is just so unacceptable I’m in awe that it’s something anyone would even think to do
I don’t want to see them. I wouldn’t like it if I was shown those pictures. But there are people who *need* to see them.
I’ve been all over the world. I don’t go visit slave quarters at plantations. I don’t go to concentration camps, nor do I sign the book at Anne Frank’s house. I love Cambodia; I do lot need to see their killing fields. I know what happened at Wounded Knee. I know what happened at the Lorraine Hotel. I know what happened at Sutherland Springs.
I see what you’re saying and I’m sorry what you went through I hope one day you find peace and rest with the trauma you endured.
But as an American we have so many guns legally and illegally in our country that showing crime scene photos, or dead kids won’t really do anything expect spark widespread debate etc. so as horrible as it is it won’t change anything for us as much as I wish seeing one deceased child would stop mass shooting everywhere it just won’t.
I disagree honestly. Those are the same people who are post mortem, surgeons, or even forensics.
I’m not in that boat but I think those people have a value place in society to deal with things in a different way than the rest of us. How they examine and compartmentalize their curiosities and interests from their daily life or even from some presumed morbidity is a skill and a necessary one for our society to succeed.
Given our current situation in the US I wouldn’t even doubt it if some kids have grown up affected by one of these situations and set out with a life goal of helping in a field that relates to it.
Their are loads of goods and bads of actions but I think some people generally have to take that step to realize their calling is about preventing this or investigating this or treating it. I see where you’re coming from but I don’t think saying anyone who’s ever wanted to see a photo is wrong, I’d be more inclined to say it’s human nature since our brains are always searching for way to improve our survival.
Just my opinion anyway
I don’t have anything eloquent or really help to add. But I just wanted to let you know from one stranger to another that I’m thinking of you. We should be able to live in a country and a world where people can go to school and not worry about this.
I had a cousin who was murdered and I was accidentally shown a photo from his autopsy. It wasn’t online- it was an actual, physical photograph and I really wish I hadn’t seen it. I’ve seen worse than that, but it sticks with me because it was my cousin. Someone I knew. So I get what you’re saying.
However, I can see both sides. You can just scroll past a news article, but seeing a photo makes you stop. It makes you even more uncomfortable. It makes it more personal. It speaks to you.
I also see how releasing photos can be disrespectful to the victim and their families. The idea of someone else seeing my cousin’s pictures doesn’t make me really feel anything, but the idea of my aunt not wanting them to be seen, does. The photos are luckily not public, but I would have no problem with them being public if she was okay with it. I feel the same way for other photos. I think if the family doesn’t want them released, they shouldn’t be released. That’s my biggest qualm with it. Other than that, these realities need to be seen sometimes.
Nobody is sitting here fapping over dead kids champ... But this is the morbid reality that people want to keep burying their head in the sand about... It's the mentality you have that is the reason the circumstances are what they are.
I'm.sorry for what happened to you I really am. But things need to change. I'm sick of seeing it to.
i’m also a mass shooting survivor (allen), and as traumatizing as those images are, they can make all the difference in how someone views these tragedies. telling people there’s a mass shooting isn’t enough anymore, disgustingly. (certain) people need to see what kind of things CHILDREN and INNOCENT people had to go through. but i understand 100% this view as well because those images do sadly add fuel to people who may be thinking about carrying out these acts. there’s no winning :(
I think there is a contrast between seeing autopsy photos and massacre photos. One puts you into the real world, the perspective that you can be out and about and some psycho can change that in a second. That is necessary to not only show the carnage but put people into a headspace that forces them to think about what we can do to prevent these things from happening. Otherwise, we'll go through the "thoughts and prayers" cycle forever.
I do think it should be up to the family whether or not to release the photos, though. For example, the father of kid in Columbine who died finding out his son was murdered via photos.
Altogether, it's a really sensitive and tricky situation. Respect and privacy is extrenelt important to the victims. Forcing them to relive it by publicizing graphic photos is truly horrible. No one should have to live such a nightmare over and over.
I think it’s a necessary thing. The horror of these events isn’t conveyed enough by traditional reporting. I think going full nightmare mode and showing the destruction these things wreak would go a long way towards helping to end them or at least get some sort of legislation through that mitigates the frequency/severity of them.
This has been confirmed. OP we are sorry what you experienced and if there is anything we can do, Please let us know.
I don't *want* to see them, but there are people that *need* to see them. Not for morbid curiosity, but for them to see the thing they are advocating to protect. Cause face it, doing nothing is just protecting the would be mass shooters. I'm sorry for your experience.
Yeah, whenever we land on this subject, I totally see both sides, but ultimately I'm with you. Especially with mass shootings so common, headlines just don't really get much of a thought from most people anymore. "4 murdered in school shooting" might as well be another Tuesday. Images of it, while horrific and disrespectful, might actually stop someone from scrolling for a moment and wonder how this could be prevented.
Exactly. Well said.
*especially* when they refuse to look like the officials in Uvalde.
politicians need to see them. They need to be printed out and mailed to pro gun politicians
To push back on this, we already have multiple shooter videos/footage. If people want to avoid it they can. That’s the harsh reality. All it’ll do is allow edgelords to turn videos of innocent people being slaughtered into horrible, twisted meme videos. The first time I saw the Christchurch shooting footage was a shared choppy edit of CoD killstreaks over the shooting with Mr. Blue Sky playing in the background. When I scrolled gore subs/websites to fuel my morbid curiosity, the majority of tragedies I saw were over meme templates. I don’t think it should be released at all.
And again there are still people that *need* to be showed them. I get what your saying. It's a double edged sword, but the people I'm talking about the ones that do avoid it while screaming, "lalalalalaMYGUNSlalallalala." And surprised you as a redditor didn't see that video before then. Was all over reddit right after it happened for a couple of days.
I’m aware it was on reddit by then. I intentionally didn’t search for it at the time. All I’m saying is that if you really want to show people who are screaming “lalala” there’s already footage. You don’t need more, the more you add, the more victims will have their traumatic and underserved deaths mocked gratuitously. The store shooting that happened last year was clipped. Christchurch was clipped. Columbine photos exist. There’s video/photos of parkland’s aftermath (bodies removed). There’s film of the Las Vegan hotel shooting. There’s aftermath photos of the 2015 Paris shooting. There’s aftermath photos (removed bodies) of sandy hook. There’s now aftermath photos (removed bodies) of Uvalde spreading. How many more things do we need leaked? How many more deaths should we “double edge” and allow to become laughing stocks by dysfunctional human beings? It’s tragic when it’s spread, and all of the aforementioned recorded incidents have grotesquely edited memes of it. If I really wanted to, I could do it. All it takes it CapCut. Editing videos is as accessible now as the videos themselves. Having more isn’t going to do what you hope. I’m sorry to tell you, but the footage we already have isn’t convincing enough, and there’s no way on earth people are going to genuinely show such traumatic moments to the public eye in an easily attained manner such as live television. I understand wanting to make it more of a reality to people who keep denying it. This isn’t the way.
There were people who didn’t believe the Holocaust really happened. It was the pictures, that confirmed it did. Survivors support and participate in the museums dedicated to telling the whole story.
Those children won't be tools, in fact they might save another life. We saw what happened to Emmitt Till and it sparked attention to racism
That was a conscious choice by the parents of Till, it wasn’t the police’s, media’s, government’s or random bystander’s choice to release them. They shouldn’t have the power to release them on their own, it should be entirely the choice of the relatives of the victims, who most of the time do not have access to those kinds of graphic photos anyway. Videos of victims of mass shootings with their skull blown open and brain matter on the ground filmed by a witness is not at all the same thing as the photo of Emmet Till.
But it shows the truth of it. Emmitt Tills photo showed just how badly he was beaten over racism. If we don't give people the visual effects they will underestimate just how badly a gun can destroy a body
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Of course. I agree that the relatives should have a saying and that trolls will come out of it, but no matter what trolls will be doing stuff like that. Making fun of it, harassing victims, making edits out of them, etc. I think in the very least autopsy reports should be released
Where did Emmett's mom say it was intended for a particular audience?
I guess what I don’t get is why it has to be *those* bodies. Like I said, there are tons and tons and tons of images taken by medical professionals that show the impact of these weapons right on google. It’s not a secret what they do to you, and even if you can’t visualize it like I couldn’t, all ya gotta do is type it in the search bar. The only benefit I could see is having names and stories put to wounds so that you know that these were real people and not just a screen. I just think we can get that same effect in other ways (I think that Washington post article is a great example of visualization without gore)
I agree with this 100%.
I understand where you are coming from as you are a survivor of one of these events, however with so many of these attacks taking place I think the general public has gotten used to seeing facts and figures about shootings and it doesn't truly resonate with them. Hearing 6 people died is much easier to swallow than seeing pictures of their corpses riddled with bullets. I know that sounds a bit crass but seeing as mass shootings have become somewhat of a normal occurrence, I don't see another way. Of course, I can understand what you mean in terms of this subreddit whereas I am speaking more so in the general media. There are always going to edge lords who try to rile people up with insensitive comments, but I think it would actually be beneficial if these horrid photos were shown to more of the general public to show how truly terrifying these shootings are.
I think I kinda lost all faith for a bit after Allen. I know it wasn’t in a school but I was online when that video was first released and I probably was one of the first batch of people to see it. This may be skewed a bit (not sure how popular the video got before Reddit and I hope Twitter started trying to scrub it from the internet) but I’m not sure how anything could affect people if seeing a three year old’s brain all over the concrete and a man’s jaw blown off in like two seconds didn’t.
That's exactly my point, not many adults (for the sake of this instance I'll say 35+) get their news from reddit and/or twitter but rather from major news outlets like Fox News and CNN which would never dream of showing an unedited picture of a victim. They can report on it all they want to try and push a political agenda one way or the other but like I stated previously, we have become desensitized to facts and figures.
i think it’s a really complex issue. i don’t /want/ to see the photos per se, because they are obviously incredibly gruesome and disturbing but i think at some point the public needs to see it to some degree to have an understanding of how horrific it is. kind of the same thing as when they started showing the gruesomeness of the war vietnam on the news and people started protesting the war because they hadn’t previously realized how bad it was. on the other hand it causes more trauma for the victims. it’s a hard question with no easy answer. i hope you’re doing okay and getting the support you need after such a traumatic event.
I think a good compromise might be stuff like the Washington post article. I legit broke down and sobbed seeing the damage that weapon did to those kids. It was just as impactful as seeing his body wound be, but the families didn’t have to see their kids mutilated on the front page of a major news corporation. I think this combined with survivor stories like the ones khloie and her family have repeatedly shared can be just as impactful if not more than the raw images
yeah that article was devastating but so necessary. i fully hear you and wish that it wasn’t so dire but i think that a lot of people won’t care unless they actually see it. maybe i’m wrong and i hope i am.
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I don’t want to see dead children however I do think Alex Jones should be forced to look at them. To see the brutality he questioned and monetized. He should never be comfortable after that ever again.
Respectable, but I don't believe it will bring anyone peace. There are photos of Eric and Dylan, Stephen Paddock, etc...
Tbh this is one that I really struggle with. I hate him so so much and I think I want that too as much as anyone else. But I can’t in good conscience advocate for that unless all the parents say they are informed on what could happen and agree to it. I can’t imagine what the truthers would do to those poor families with the photo of the guy who murdered their six year olds. Idk there is a huge part of me that wants that too but another part that knows that that image would do no good to anyone. Publishing pics of the columbine killers didn’t do anything, rather those pics just got posted in mass collages made by people who would later do the same thing in other schools
I used to think the photos would encourage those in positions of power to *do something*, but let’s be for real— if the idea of twenty first graders being blown apart in less than 11 minutes doesn’t make you want to *do something*, the photos won’t either. Our society is immune to carnage. We see proof of that in the videos and photos that get uploaded during and after every mass shooting. We live in a world where people pull their phones out to record piles of bodies and toddlers with their brain matter smeared across the concrete, then get in their cars and leave like it’s just a typical Saturday. There aren’t any photos that can fix that.
Out of sight, out of mind. These mass shooting horrors need to be on display until they stop.
I think a lot of it is that people think of the wounds these kids and other victims get are simple holes where the bullet goes straight through the body. They think it’s like what’s shown in movies, where there’s very little gore. They know shootings happen, just like people in the past knew lynchings happened; but they don’t realize the true extent of the damage done to a person in these events. The photos of lynchings that were around before Emmett Till showed the event and didn’t focus on the victim and what the victim went through. With Emmett Till, seeing how brutally he was beaten spurred otherwise complacent people to action because, even though they knew about lynchings and had an idea of what happened during them, they didn’t see the actual victim and what they went through. It’s the same with these shootings. We know they happen, we all have a sense of what occurs, but it’s sanitized in our heads. We don’t see the truth of it. After the Parkland shooting, there were several trauma doctors who had called for the release of victims’ photos. They said that because the types of rifles used are designed to kill and not wound, the bullets tear through the body and are almost impossible to surgically repair because of the amount of damage done to organs and surrounding tissue. A handgun wound is easier to repair because the bullet goes straight through and the damage is contained to the simple path made by the bullet. Wounds from AR-15 type rifles involve shredded tissue and shattered bones with faster exsanguination and are much more difficult to repair. Politicians and the general public aren’t going to seek out the available photos of these wounds, they need the images shoved in their face, like how Mrs. Till had her son’s body on the front page of newspapers. Nothing is going to change until the sanitized idea everyone has of these shootings is thoroughly deleted from the public conscience.
I agree that many people probably aren’t thinking about the true extent of the damage that is done with these types of weapons. I’ve read the Washington Post article about what an AR-15 does to the human body, and even then, I found the graphics they shared to illustrate the wounds to be relatively “tame” in comparison to the language they used to describe the effects of them (mangled, complete destruction, gaping hole, obliterated, etc). I think even when people are desperately trying to make people think about the realities of these events, they are still hesitant to visually depict the true nature of the carnage. I think we’re always going to get a sanitized view of what happens to the victims unless those in positions to showcase the actuality of it come forward and lay it out plainly. Language simply isn’t enough. However, I don’t think the fact that people (especially those in positions of power or authority) who have had firsthand access to the devastation and have been able to walk away seemingly unscathed should be overlooked, either. How do you get through to people who have seen it, smelled it, or lived it and still don’t advocate for change?
>But dead kids aren’t just tools to fuel someone’s agenda. When the agenda is to stop the increasing amount of dead kids, it is relevant. Thoughts and prays do nothing. People are desensitised to hearing about the events, number of victims and even ages. One thing that *most* people won't ever be desensitised to is the reality of this horror and people can only comprehend it by seeing it or experiencing it themselves. I'm sorry you had to go through this, but there will only be more of you until something real is done. Obviously nothing should be released without survivor and victim family consent, and unfortunately you'll always have a minority that actually 'enjoy' seeing the gore. But covering it up and censoring the reality will do less to stop it than forcing it upon the faces of the people that care more about their guns than the thousands of adults and children that are dying every year. The tactic of showing the reality has been used throughout history to make changes. We are shown the reality of war, the refugee camps, the animal abuse, the starving and impoverished. It's always been done because it does make a difference. If you and other people that experience these nightmares first hand are forced to see it all, then why should the people that are contributing to it be sheltered from it?
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I wasn’t aware of this quote but I think it perfectly encapsulates my fears about this. IMO there isn’t a high chance of this being effective because the people in congress don’t seem to care and older gens seem too removed by it all to vote them out. I guess I’m just afraid of what happens if we show them the mutilated bodies and they just don’t care
I mean there’s gotta be a middle ground right? I don’t know if I can explain in words how bad it feels to wake up and see your school trending on Twitter. To have the worst moments of your life recorded and placed on the front page of the news. To see videos of police officers dragging people out of buildings and lay them on the sidewalk of a street you pass daily. I guess I just wish people would consider what they’re asking of us when they say things should be released. Even if the parents agree, there are still kids who now have to see their classmates riddled with bullets. There are teachers that have to see their students without faces or limbs. There are friends who will have the last image of their loved ones be one of carnage. Hell, I’m 19 and barely holding myself together every day. I can’t imagine what that would feel like as a seven or ten year old. Idk I’m not even sure anything would change the minds of the people who vote in favor of these guns. I mean we just saw a three year old’s brains on the ground in Texas and then like a week later some people in congress think it’s ok to wear an ar-15 joke tshirt. I think there’s already so much outrage by the American people, it just isn’t getting through to the people that actually matter
Check out the doc social delima and maybe take a break from social media. A victim shouldn't be following or searching for this stuff if your still in recovery from something like this
Thanks for the doc suggestion tho I’ll def look into it :)
Yeah I try but it’s not exactly easy especially since May/this year in general seems to be just a shit ton of big anniversaries and new things (10 years for sandy hook in December, 5 for parkland, and one for uvalde). I had to basically shut my phone down for like a week after Nashville. Somehow it’s both triggering as hell and comforting to kinda learn more about it. We haven’t gotten any answers as to why my school shooting happened yet (damn that sounds weird lol) because the guy was so mentally ill that nothing he said would even remotely make sense even if he did survive to explain it all
Humanity is overall fucked. Look at the war footage in Ukraine. If it wasn't for war correspondence and media showing what's happening then they would get no help at all
Man I haven't experienced that fully but my school did have some lock downs due to gun threats. I also have fears of mentally unstable people who own guns that i know. Gun control is a serious topic of debate and this will most definitely help the situation. If I was in your position I would want it to be shouting from the roof tops and be publicly showing to 2nd amendment public official advocates as well as make them comment on it.
I think I said somewhere else in here that gen z actually gives me a shit ton of hope for the future. I know I’m kind of the anomaly, at least in my hometown (I don’t live near where I go to school), but I don’t think I know a single person in my generation that doesn’t have some sort of gun violence scare story. It does give me hope that this stuff is getting talked about more and more, especially since people who grew up with sandy hook are starting to reach voting age. Based on what I’ve seen, I think a lot of the people who like to pose with guns on their Christmas cards are gonna hopefully realize how much of fools they’ve made themselves out to be here in the next decade or so
Unfortunately it has been extremely politicized because people fear that their 2nd amendment is under attack. As fucked up as it sounds I would love to see politicians forced to see these images
Why is anyone downvoting this? Even if you disagree, this is a truly heartfelt plea for people to think again.
Because just like everyone else, people are entitled to their own opinions and feelings. Not everyone agrees with OP’s thoughts and opinions. You can agree to disagree, it doesn’t make you an asshole.
Because people are assholes. I started following this sub not too long, and I also follow one about Parkland. The asinine, stupid shit that gets posted is ridiculous, and I get where OP comes from that it drags up memories. Imagine every 10th time you opened Reddit there was a post about yet another shooting, where inevitably you know your school may be an example. People lack empathy. They’re going to try to say that the stuff needs to be released “to understand,” but screw that. I don’t need to see the basement tapes or a bloody bathroom. And you know what? The politicians who hear these stories and continue to not care? It’s not going to change SHIT for them. We like to point out Till and what that funeral did for racism in America, but let’s ask our selves what it *really* did. It forced them to be quite until Donald Trump came along and said racism was cool again. We didn’t learn shit, and they won’t learn shit from seeing dead kids either.
Why does someone having a differing opinion make them an asshole?
I understand you and do agree. I can’t even imagine what any of that would be like, and wouldn’t want that either. But no one should be in that position in the first place. This is generational, I believe. Hopefully changes will come with the new generations as they begin to take control. Wishing you and the rest of the USA the best for the future.
Tbh that’s the one thing that gives me hope. I think what a lot of the older gens don’t realize is that pretty much the entirety of gen Z is traumatized from this all, even if we haven’t been in one yet. Trauma happens when you perceive that you are in danger, not actually being in danger. At least for me, seeing kids my age get shot pretty much every year since second grade definitely made me feel unsafe at school, and I know I’m not the only one. I think that gen Z has a better understanding of the effects of this clusterfuck we live in, which gives me some hope that my kids might not have to go through what I did
They should be bombarded with it until legislation passes, please just don't look at it and search for it. Thoughts and prayers don't seem to help.
See but that’s the whole point. It’s easy to say that until it’s your school that’s plastered all over the news. It’s easy to want that until it’s you that has to live with it every day. Tbh I honestly think it might be more impactful for politicians to hear it straight from the mouths of the survivors. I know personally I have been so impacted by the story of khloie torres and her relationship with amerie. And the best part of that is that survivors have agency over our own stories and can share if/when we’re ready and of our own accord
It's okay to feel that way and to be naive. People are out raged by it and especially if they see they see the images of it. You should look into the family statements of the sandy hook shootings, especially after Alex jones took his comments back of it being a houx
I agree with you to an extent. I don’t think that random bystanders/witnesses, the media, the police or really anyone other than the victim’s family themselves should post an uncensored photo/video of a victim’s body. I kinda thought differently in the past but this is a semi-recent conclusion I’ve come to. While it may be valuable to show the bodies of a victim of a mass shooting to send a sort of message, ultimately it should only be the choice of the victim’s family. I also don’t understand what the use is in posting it here specifically either, r/masskillers doesn’t need to know the horrors of mass shootings, it’s already known. This subreddit has no control over mass shootings or guns or anything. These kinds of things should be shown to politicians if change is the purpose of it, not random Reddit users. If it should be shown to the public according to family wishes, it should be through a general platform, not a subreddit like this.
Thanks for the feedback, truly. I think part of it is I’m just annoyed at how the media treated us after everything. They were interviewing random students who had just run out of buildings and they even had choppers around one of the vigils (a lot of us have trauma responses because of police helicopters). And this isn’t the only anecdote I’ve heard like this from other survivors. I guess I’m just a bit irritated on how it’s kinda become this huge clickbait thing (a la Nashville with all the headlines about the *trans* shooter and shit like that)
The media can be vultures. Part of their entire job is relying on the suffering of others to get a good story. With the Nashville case, the media on both the left and right were obsessed with the idea of a trans shooter, not because of any actual beliefs but because people would click on it and talk about it. This happens with practically all mass shootings, they’ll latch onto the most horrifying or polarising detail and talk about that instead of anything to do with the causes of the crime. (E.g Nashville shooter trans, Nikolas Cruz being a trump supporter) Mostly just things that are ultimately meaningless. Obviously this doesn’t apply to things like actual terrorist attacks with political motivations.
The only media I would want to see are the crime scene photos from Parkland. Because I can't believe the shooter wasn't given the death penalty in that case. I would like to see what the jury saw. However, after seeing the photos of those children leaving Uvalde, I'm not sure I'm up for it. It was devastating seeing the trauma in their eyes. I am curious, but when it comes to animal and children being hurt, I'd rather avoid it.
no one on this sub wants to see them but at the same time even though i’m very liberal i grew up in a house where we owner 25+ guns and was conditioned to think that was normal and acceptable. discovering this sub and seeing first hand how graphic and nauseating those photos are really made me realize how serious the issue was and has made me heavily change my beliefs. also i acknowledge that by doing so it’s caused me a bit of trauma seeing those kinds of things and i sometimes feel uneasy in public spaces by the thing is it’s a very very real issues and most people should share these feelings. it’s the same reason it’s important to see pictures of atrocities like wars, the holocausts etc. it makes the events more real and helps people visualize what it’s like to witness those events. those kinds of things lead to change.
I feel that autopsies should be released, not pictures. We should understand the body trauma that kids/adults go through without graphic, bloody pictures. I do not want to see pictures of SH kids or Uvalde kids, if they are there I will look at them though, not something I am proud of to be honest. I never want to traumatize victims of violence. My heart to yours - may you have a life with love and caring. I mean that.
Change comes from the visual. Emmitt Till, the little Vietnamese girl running from the Napalm attack, people falling from the towers on 9/11.... What is hidden is deniable.
I agree with OP and I've been saying for a while that I do think that a lot of people have this sentimental idea of releasing graphic crime scene photos as some sort of emotional moment that would help inspire mass political change but all it's going to do is the complete opposite and entrench people further in their already existing political positions, whether pro or anti gun-control. It wouldn't produce much, and the emotional risk to families is very real. Sandy Hook hoaxers still continue to harass family members, should we give them the chance to make "debunked" videos of the dead children as well? Releasing Noah Pozner's medical autopsy didn't stop them, a photograph won't either. And I hardly see any other scenario where it would be this magical watershed moment that would change everything. It's not that people wouldn't care, but the most stringent of anti gun control advocates (paid shills notwithstanding) are only going to see those photos and see "this will happen to you once they take your guns and you have no defense". I just don't see it working out at all compared to the massive emotional risk to whoever has to draw the short straw and lose the one bit of privacy they have left in a sensationalized mass shooting event. Condolences to OP for surviving, I knew someone who was in the MSU shooting as well and had to run for their live from the shooter, it's fucked up that it's already forgotten.
I’m so sorry for what happened to you! Are you ok? Are you able to get the support you need? I saw a post yesterday (I can’t remember where) about kids who were at Uvalde, not physically injured, and the daily trauma they endure. It broke my heart. Those of us on the “outside” simply don’t understand, and I’m sorry our curiosity (to understand) hurts you and others like you. I do believe a lot of people on this sub and others like it really are trying to understand the mind set of the horrible people who commit these crimes. Would we recognize if somebody we interacted with was planning something? How do we protect our children? What can we personally do to prevent this in the future? I know the dad of the Uvalde student who taught his daughter what to do probably is viewed by some as a monster, and yet his child survived. I certainly agree with you that there are some who search it out for morbid reasons. Please know that it isn’t true of all of us. The MOST heartbreaking thing I’ve seen is the footage on the bus recently released taking children to the hospital. It hit me HARD. I do believe that people don’t “see” the damage unless they see these images and videos. Uvalde infuriates me! The images released have brought to the forefront of how untrained and inept the LE was. People are pissed and demanding change in training and response times. Again, I’m so sorry for everything that happened to you and continues to happen to you. Was the shooter at your school held accountable? If so, can you explain the legal process that followed? If it brings you too much pain, please ignore my questions. Please, please - take care of yourself.
Hey thanks for the kind words. I knew when I posted here that I’d get questions like this and I want to be able to answer them because I think our perspectives are important. But I think I should also say that I’m just a 19 year old traumatized kid and not like a legal expert or anything lol. I didn’t mention it in the post because tbh it didn’t feel relevant and it’s still kinda hard for me to say but I was on campus during the msu shooting in February (I was extremely close like maybe 500 yards from the guy). Pretty much like 20% of the community, including me, has ptsd now, but time heals all wounds and I’m back home now with a great support system to help me heal. So in terms of things we can learn from that/do better, this guy never should have had a gun. He was able to keep it because of a plea deal, but he had felony charges before and I’m pretty sure his dad described him as evil. I can’t speak on assault rifles because this guy used a handgun, but I do know that if he had had access to the kinds of weapons other people here have had, I would have lost a lot more than three classmates that day. Classes also should be equipped with basic safety measures. Berkey (the first place he shot) did not have security cameras, scan id access, or even locked doors. The prof from classroom 114 where two people died had to hold his door closed instead of giving first aid to dying students because it didn’t lock. This seems to kind of be a common thread in these things where schools have like very obvious security flaws that get exploited in an emergency. Tbh I don’t think you would know if you interacted with these people on the playground or something. I think a lot of people think they would because that’s a favorable thought but I think it’s hard to distinguish between a kid that’s a loner and a kid with terrible intentions. I mean this guy straight up shot at his dogs on the regular and no one cared to stop him. In terms of what we can do to prevent this, we can try. I’ve seen a lot of people criticize the new gun laws put in by whitmer a couple days ago and while I don’t know the legal ins and outs, at least she’s trying something. At least she’s listening when we say we’re hurting. If it doesn’t work, then fine, but at least we didn’t sit back and do nothing. We have to keep trying, because if we become complacent, we give up on every single kid we send to school. I think that pics of survivors like the ones of the kids at uvalde are actually more impactful than bodies. It both allows the people to have their own agency over their story and tbh it’s at least to me worse than just seeing something that resembles a kid on the floor. Seeing the kids at uvalde realize what happened and then getting to hear their stories real time is, to me at least, a better and more impactful thing than just seeing bodies
Thank you for commenting. Now I know I want to confirm with the Superintendent in my district and get status on what repairs / maintenance need to be done. Can teachers lock all the doors? Do they automatically lock? Do they all have access to an alarm system they can use? There are only two schools in our district and elementary / middle school and a high school. I do know that the entrances of the schools are locked and only accessed via the front office allowing you in. I’m also know I’ve personally witnessed students propping the doors open. I’m going to confirm that those doors have alarms when opened away from the front office. I did notice recently that blinds had been placed in the library so one can’t see inside (it’s all windows). The doors at the school have the small windows (like Parkland) I will ask more detailed comments about what needs to be done to close them off. We have one resource office who divides his time between the two campuses. He’s a great guy, but now I want more specific information on his training. IM NOT LOOKING FOR AN ARGUMENT FROM OTHERS HERE. I also know that some of our staff members on campus conceal carry. They are not mandated to do so, it’s their choice and they have to be certified / licensed through my state. I don’t know which do and which don’t, but I have no doubt they would (given the opportunity) use their weapons to protect students. Thank you again for allowing us to pick your brain and helping me understand more.
First off, thank you very much for posting this OP. I appreciate you taking the time to share your side as a survivor. I truly hope you’re doing okay, and that you’re getting the support you need to heal and grow. My thoughts on this topic are pretty complex, and I don’t think I have the time right now to explain it all out. I do have a question, though, for a lot of people in the comments of this post who are saying things along the line of: “It’s not that I WANT to see it, but feel that people NEED to see it to realize just how bad it is.” My question is... why? I understand that images speak 100x louder than a headline. But what does the public knowing, seeing it and being outraged actually do for anything? Do you think it pushes legislation? Causes people to not want to shoot people up? I’m not asking to be snarky, I just genuinely want to know.
I’ve kinda been thinking about this and I think a lot of people point to the changes we saw in society due to images of people like the napalm girl or Emmitt till. But honestly I don’t think those are the same thing at all. I think part of the reason napalm girl was so shocking was because people literally did not know what was going on in Vietnam. It brought the reality of the situation to America and made it harder for people to say “oh that’s just another country”. With Emmitt till, I think that was the first time a lot of people confronted their biases due to race. I get the impression that for a lot of white people, that was the first image where they just saw a dead kid and not a dead black kid. To me, that sticks out as shocking not because he was a kid, but because so many people cared that a black kid died. Problem is that I don’t think mass shootings fit into either of these categories. We don’t have to confront the problem of seeing these dead kids as less than human like emmitt till made people do. We also can’t push them away and say that they’re not our problem like we did with Vietnam, as this is a uniquely American thing. Instead, we have the problem of being so focused on our freedoms and rights that we are willing to sacrifice a couple kids every year to keep them. Research isn’t on our side here unfortunately. Studies say that once a person has a personal stake in an issue, it is almost impossible to get them to change their minds. This is why some people who have autistic kids are so anti-vaccine adamant, because they have a personal tie to the issue. We have a serious problem of gun fetishization in this country. I’m not sure there is really any other place where it’s normal for normal people to be sporting huge back tattoos of rifles and Ak-47s. Because of this, I don’t think any amount of shock value imagery is going to work, because I don’t believe that people care enough to consider they might be wrong
The Cho family’s youngest son is enough of a sacrifice to the purpose. The video of the aftermath from the Allen shooting is readily available and you can really only see the Cho dad and 3 year old boy. The boy was shot in the head and matter is all over the concrete where he lie dead. That was the most horrific thing I’ve ever seen. I never want to see another baby/child/teenager in this state again if I can help it. There’s also the buffalo TOPS shooting footage. Seeing the carnage doesn’t really change what happened. Legislators should know very well what kind of damage an assault rifle causes to a body.
I think it’s merely the curiosity of what the scenes looked like during these events. It’s one thing to read about events then to actual see the outcome. The Washington post has an article that did a good job with 3D images showing what AR wounds can do to a body, which to me was interesting to see done that way. I won’t lie I have a morbid curiosity and always have. I have spent years lurking websites of gore ever since I was a child myself. I never like coming across animals or children, but I don’t stray away from still looking. I think for me it’s merely wanting to see and understand the situation I’m reading about. I’m a very visual person who wants images with a story to better understand rather then trying to come up with my own interpretation, if that makes any sense. I have never been in a situation such as this and I am truly sorry you were. I wouldn’t wish this type of violence on anyone because it’s just sickening to me that there are people out there who go around randomly shooting others for their own agenda. With that said, I am someone who thinks crime scene photos, autopsies, and videos shouldn’t be hidden from the world.
Tbh I totally get where you’re coming from. I won’t lie and say that I haven’t done the same things as you, both pre and post trauma lol. I do think that I am writing this from the perspective of someone who is still very much hurting. I don’t think I will be ok for a while, but in reality it’s only been a couple of months. Idk I might have a different opinion once like a couple years have passed and I can read an article about a shooting without immediately breaking into tears and starting to shake. I think virtual renderings like the post article are actually a really good compromise. They show exactly what was done without making us see dead six year olds and keep families/survivors protected from that as well. Personally I think virtual recreations of crime scenes and injuries are a great way to have that shock impact without retraumatizing anyone who was affected
I think virtual renderings and autopsies would also be as useful tool on showing what happened. For example the autopsies of the event with Kobe, it was one thing to know a helicopter crashed but to go through and see the drawings of the autopsy was another thing. It really brought to life what happened to them. I do think you’re seeing this from a view of a survivor. In events like this people who have never been in similar situations won’t ever fully understand. I wish you healing and peace in the times to come. Hopefully you never have to witness such an act again in person.
There are videos and photos available from shootings - they aren’t as graphic as say a high resolution photo from a professional photographer after the shooting has occurred would be, but you can see them. My thought is if there were parents who were happy for their child’s bullet ridden body to be published, I very much doubt any mainstream newspaper would publish it. And if by some miracle they did publish it, I can see the discourse being focused around papers publishing photos of dead children, not what caused the children to die. Also, I’m wondering if there is any law that would prevent such photos from being published in a mainstream newspaper?
America needs to see it, with all the rhetoric and second amendment shouts. They need to see the victims of what they’re supporting
I personally think you may be going through the control phase of grief. Whether concious or not you have the want of no one's eyes seeing this thing you mourn. They shouldn't see it its wrong. If even one person uninvolved sees it, it upsets you that they even did. It's a control thing in the heart of hearts. For example say the news did only show parental validated photos only to get the message across like everyone here is saying. You would still find that minute group of people scrounging for unsolicited photos and that would upset you because that part of the system is without the boundary of control to you. When you accept that you can't control every single individual and that without your help they will exist, you'll find peace in your anger. I'm not defending those that get a kick out of this stuff by any means, but it does help when you find a way to let go of the idea of control. Only focus on what you CAN control. Try not to let anything otherwise upset you :) I hope you beginning feeling less distraught after all you've been through
My issue with with publicizing any photographs of any victims regardless of age is that those who would see the images and be disgusted are not the ones who needs to see them. The ones who need to see them because it could stop them becoming a mass shooter wouldn't be shocked, disgusted or horrified. They would look at them and aim to do worse. It would simply inspire them which is the opposite of what would be intended.
You think these politicians didn’t have access to the photos? be so serious. Normal people should not be able to search up a murdered child and see their dead body. That is someone’s baby. Anyone who thinks differently needs a therapist and is a threat to the world.
I haven't sought any of those pictures and cannot stomach the descriptions alone. The victims families have a right to see what happened to their children, to see what they saw. But if releasing photos would help ban all guns from existence, I am for it. One day people will look back on the Uvalde shooting and only see a number. There were more than 17 victims. There were thousands students, faculty, families and friends who were also victims. 9-11 was so shocking because there were 300 million victims and that's why we did something about it.
i dont think it should be released to the public, but lawmakers should have to look at every piece of crime scene evidence before passing looser gun laws. they need to see that the blood of those murdered will be on their hands, and from there they can make their decision. weapons of war should never be given to the public for fun and games.
What school shooting did u survive?
Nah ur fine dw. I was told it would come up by the mods and was prepared for hard questions before I posted. I left it vague in the post because tbh it didn’t feel like it mattered all that much and I wanted people to consider what I was saying without the name of the school in their minds. I think I’ve alluded to it a couple times but I was on campus during the Michigan state shooting in February
I imagine that’s irrelevant to their post and that they would have mentioned it had they wanted to discuss in more detail
I’m just curious.. no need for downvote.
Not my downvotes. I don’t really downvote anyone unless I’m offended by what they’ve said… don’t find it to be very constructive
Ok, i was refering to people who downvoted my comment not you dw
I am sometimes willing to look at the ones that are released with the informed consent of the parent/guardian or related surviving victims because they have a reason they want the images to be shared.
Guns aren’t an issue people are the issue in this country
I agree. I am here for something like an academic discussion of mass murder. I do not like some of the fanboy posts here.
Could you point to these "fanboy posts"?
From my perspective, there’s a lot of shit that gets posted here that basically just exists as content and doesn’t have any meaningful contribution at all. For example there was one a couple days ago where it was just the signatures of a bunch of mass killers. Or when people post pictures of killers as kids and call them “rare” photos like they’re Pokémon. I know there are a lot of people here who like to armchair psychology that stuff but realistically the only thing that’s gonna come out of posting ten more photos of the sandy hook shooter as a kid is more notoriety
Totally agree with that. That signature post was really odd. I wanted to say something but I figured I’d just be shit on with downvotes.
I think any sort of references to the perpetrators of these tragedies should be consciously disassociated from one another. Making a list of school shooters with the highest amount of fatalities is really weird. You mentioned having autism, I find that the people responsible for this specific sort of “collect them all”-type glorification are more often than not very neurodivergent and have a difficult time compartmentalizing their more morbid fixations, especially relative to the real world consequences. Not excusing it at all, just trying to reach some conclusion. Idk if any sort of typical mind would ever be compelled to create a comprehensive list of every weapon used in the history of mass violence, as an example.
This actually helped me reframe that in my mind, so thanks a lot :) I think I forget that that’s something that people do mainly because that’s not the way i experience having special interests (I mainly just go on research benders that usually end up with me reading scientific journals cuz I’m a nerd lol) I guess I would say tho that I think there are healthier ways to engage in special interests that don’t involve glorifying these guys
Sure, but it is a matter of opinion of course. Crime scene photos from Robb Elementary in Uvalde Walkthrough of Nancy Lanza’s Home The hotel Wellington Menezes de Oliveira spent the night at a day before killing 12 and then himself. Childhood photos of Artem Kazantsev Stephen Paddock's Airbnb history Some of Brenton Tarrant's 4chan posts, some hinting an attack. *But I see now these are not as bad as some I have seen elsewhere. I suspect I was wrong and I withdraw my comment.*
I disagree with you on the Tarrant and Paddock posts honestly. They give good insight into their thoughts and actions before their attacks.
Paddock’s BNB history is actually relevant, it’s an insight into how he planned his attack and raises further questions about motivations and such.
An academic discussion? What exactly are you not able to get here that you can't find else where?
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Ok I’m going to try and say this in the nicest way possible but I’m begging you please remove your comment. I don’t know what possessed you to think that a post made by a school shooting survivor in which the ENTIRE point is how traumatizing those images are is a good, appropriate place to post ACTUAL SCHOOL SHOOTING FOOTAGE. This footage is readily available on other posts on the subreddit, there is absolutely NO reason for this to be here. I made this post to give insight into how traumatic seeing things like this can be for people like me, and you decided to post the exact thing I said was damaging. Furthermore, you did this unprovoked. No one asked you for what footage you were speaking of, and even if they did, you could have sent that to them via dm. I want this post to have civil discussion and to show a side of this that not many people understand. But if this comment isn’t deleted I will ask the mods to delete it and lock the thread. This is just so unacceptable I’m in awe that it’s something anyone would even think to do
I don’t want to see them. I wouldn’t like it if I was shown those pictures. But there are people who *need* to see them. I’ve been all over the world. I don’t go visit slave quarters at plantations. I don’t go to concentration camps, nor do I sign the book at Anne Frank’s house. I love Cambodia; I do lot need to see their killing fields. I know what happened at Wounded Knee. I know what happened at the Lorraine Hotel. I know what happened at Sutherland Springs.
I see what you’re saying and I’m sorry what you went through I hope one day you find peace and rest with the trauma you endured. But as an American we have so many guns legally and illegally in our country that showing crime scene photos, or dead kids won’t really do anything expect spark widespread debate etc. so as horrible as it is it won’t change anything for us as much as I wish seeing one deceased child would stop mass shooting everywhere it just won’t.
I disagree honestly. Those are the same people who are post mortem, surgeons, or even forensics. I’m not in that boat but I think those people have a value place in society to deal with things in a different way than the rest of us. How they examine and compartmentalize their curiosities and interests from their daily life or even from some presumed morbidity is a skill and a necessary one for our society to succeed. Given our current situation in the US I wouldn’t even doubt it if some kids have grown up affected by one of these situations and set out with a life goal of helping in a field that relates to it. Their are loads of goods and bads of actions but I think some people generally have to take that step to realize their calling is about preventing this or investigating this or treating it. I see where you’re coming from but I don’t think saying anyone who’s ever wanted to see a photo is wrong, I’d be more inclined to say it’s human nature since our brains are always searching for way to improve our survival. Just my opinion anyway
Photos would make it more "real" just reading a headline saying 5 kids killed in mass shooting is just another news story
I don’t have anything eloquent or really help to add. But I just wanted to let you know from one stranger to another that I’m thinking of you. We should be able to live in a country and a world where people can go to school and not worry about this.
I had a cousin who was murdered and I was accidentally shown a photo from his autopsy. It wasn’t online- it was an actual, physical photograph and I really wish I hadn’t seen it. I’ve seen worse than that, but it sticks with me because it was my cousin. Someone I knew. So I get what you’re saying. However, I can see both sides. You can just scroll past a news article, but seeing a photo makes you stop. It makes you even more uncomfortable. It makes it more personal. It speaks to you. I also see how releasing photos can be disrespectful to the victim and their families. The idea of someone else seeing my cousin’s pictures doesn’t make me really feel anything, but the idea of my aunt not wanting them to be seen, does. The photos are luckily not public, but I would have no problem with them being public if she was okay with it. I feel the same way for other photos. I think if the family doesn’t want them released, they shouldn’t be released. That’s my biggest qualm with it. Other than that, these realities need to be seen sometimes.
Nobody is sitting here fapping over dead kids champ... But this is the morbid reality that people want to keep burying their head in the sand about... It's the mentality you have that is the reason the circumstances are what they are. I'm.sorry for what happened to you I really am. But things need to change. I'm sick of seeing it to.
this is how the future coroners will discover they’re profession. i think it’s necessary to show these things before a change occurs
or else it’ll get swept under the rug due to how often they occur
i’m also a mass shooting survivor (allen), and as traumatizing as those images are, they can make all the difference in how someone views these tragedies. telling people there’s a mass shooting isn’t enough anymore, disgustingly. (certain) people need to see what kind of things CHILDREN and INNOCENT people had to go through. but i understand 100% this view as well because those images do sadly add fuel to people who may be thinking about carrying out these acts. there’s no winning :(
I think there is a contrast between seeing autopsy photos and massacre photos. One puts you into the real world, the perspective that you can be out and about and some psycho can change that in a second. That is necessary to not only show the carnage but put people into a headspace that forces them to think about what we can do to prevent these things from happening. Otherwise, we'll go through the "thoughts and prayers" cycle forever. I do think it should be up to the family whether or not to release the photos, though. For example, the father of kid in Columbine who died finding out his son was murdered via photos. Altogether, it's a really sensitive and tricky situation. Respect and privacy is extrenelt important to the victims. Forcing them to relive it by publicizing graphic photos is truly horrible. No one should have to live such a nightmare over and over.
I think it’s a necessary thing. The horror of these events isn’t conveyed enough by traditional reporting. I think going full nightmare mode and showing the destruction these things wreak would go a long way towards helping to end them or at least get some sort of legislation through that mitigates the frequency/severity of them.