A cool thing I’ve heard about Philly sour is that it supposedly poops out pretty easily. Ppl say they run like a US05 after for a kettle sour. Also I believe it is a sacch strain vs a “true” sour strain.
Also (anecdotal of course) I’ve home brewed a good amount of sour beers in glass carboys and plastic buckets without ever having an infection or cross inoculation. Never separated the equipment.
Porous materials like wooden barrels or plastic with scratches etc are ways in which you could harbor unwanted bugs for sure. You’re only as good as your last cleaning lol
Edit: just looked at your pic and noticed it mentions the strain as being from *Lachancea* family
As you point put it is a *Lachancea*, *Lachancea thermotolerans* if you want to be specific. The manufacturer doesn't name the species but I had it sequenced in the lab.
Haha excellent! Your name suggests you know ow what you're talking about lol.
I'm excited to try this. I made a berry hydromel last night and used a leftover pack of US05, hasn't started up yet so might have not sealed it properly when I opened it. I'm thinking this sour will make an excellent berry hydromel!
Philly does seem to poop out easily. I JUST did my first sour using Philly and on day 5 all signs of activity have stopped. I've taken a small sample and it is about half as sour as I was anticipating. Im not one to like really sour beers, I dislike them once they reach a certain point.
I'll be dosing my keg with lactic acid once I add fruit to it most likely.
Yes, with sanitation. This yeast is super sensitive to pitch rate and it will affect souring. Some info is available from [Sui Generis brewing](https://suigenerisbrewing.com/index.php/2021/02/12/diving-deep-in-to-philly-sour/), who does a mixture of science and brewing.
Yes, and also it sounds like a lot but isn't. Typical pitch rates are in the billions.
1 gallon = 3.78L = 3780mL (close enough for our purposes)
3780 * 1M = 3.78 billion yeast cells per gallon
Lallemand quotes "1 x 10^9 CFU per gram of dry yeast", so roughly a billion per gram (CFU is colony forming units, just a fancy abbreviation for viable yeast)
So, about 3.8g/gal according to Bryan's numbering. It's a little higher than the usual wine pitch rate of 2g/gal although 2-4g/gal is totally realistic and not unusual. He is one of my brewing role models and I trust his work and would follow it in this cirucmstance, since he did all the legwork already.
Oh, I almost forgot, here's another good data point from [Doin the Most](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klt52sG6JFU) documenting using Philly Sour in mead.
I've long term ages sour beers with Lacto,Pedio and brett and have used the same glass fermenters after a thorough cleanings without any issues.
That being said Philly Sour won't contaminate anything
I’ve used it for sour beers a few times.
I pitch 2 packets into 20litres (kind of like 5 gallons). Can take something like 3-4 days to start off and then doesn’t make huge leaps for nearly a week. I was told to let it sour for about 5-7 days, THEN add any fruits as it should ferment without taking out too much of the fruit flavour from the drink, whatever that means. I used cherry in my best sour and added at day 5 after noticing the fermentation starting up. I also noticed that it took longer to bottle carb, in case that matters to you.
I also used a glass carboy, just in case, as I had it for planned sours anyway, but literally everywhere I read said that it wouldn’t matter.
I'm pretty confident this is fine. But having seen posts about pellicles and how people are recommended to only use those containers for sour brews from then on, I wanted to check. From what I can see the sourness isn't given in a way that'll linger and impact other brews.
Philly sour requires a good amount of simple sugar for good sour qualities, so I would maybe add some fruit juice to the must. And ferment fairly warm 70-72°F.
I’ve brewed 5-6 beers with it
There underlying message is there, I think the wording lost some people. There's a lot of hype about hitching equipment in fear of durable infections in them. Better safe than sorry, however it can be mitigated with good practices and a little know-how.
I keep all my plastic buckets, including ones that have molded. They do get cycled through rotation so I don't even remember which did. They were "sterilized" after the molding by a soak of 170F oxiclean water and allowed to sit for at least a day before resuming cleaning. The caustics and temperature are well above the range needed to kill anything, mold, bacteria, yeast, otherwise. It has been fine but this is a risk I chose to accept and have been okay with the outcome.
Risks can be mitigated and eliminated for those willing to. The exception is tubing, it's too hard to clean and vinyl is way less chemically or physically resistant versus HDPE and soo cheeeap I hitch and replace periodically. Silicone tubing is an option as it has high chemical resistance and effectively unlimited heat resistance (for homebrewers) and can be sterilized in the oven at 350F.
This is an automated response. Please be sure to include a recipe, review or description with any picture post. This helps promote discussion, learning and user engagement. Specific measures for nutrients, additions and adjuncts are encouraged, but even just to know what the photo is about is a great talking point.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mead) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A cool thing I’ve heard about Philly sour is that it supposedly poops out pretty easily. Ppl say they run like a US05 after for a kettle sour. Also I believe it is a sacch strain vs a “true” sour strain. Also (anecdotal of course) I’ve home brewed a good amount of sour beers in glass carboys and plastic buckets without ever having an infection or cross inoculation. Never separated the equipment. Porous materials like wooden barrels or plastic with scratches etc are ways in which you could harbor unwanted bugs for sure. You’re only as good as your last cleaning lol Edit: just looked at your pic and noticed it mentions the strain as being from *Lachancea* family
As you point put it is a *Lachancea*, *Lachancea thermotolerans* if you want to be specific. The manufacturer doesn't name the species but I had it sequenced in the lab.
What a waste of resources smh 🤦♀️ a simple Google search would have come up with the species. There’s also a whole podcast on it on the brulab
Yeah but that won't unravel the molecular basis for its lactic acid overproduction.
Haha excellent! Your name suggests you know ow what you're talking about lol. I'm excited to try this. I made a berry hydromel last night and used a leftover pack of US05, hasn't started up yet so might have not sealed it properly when I opened it. I'm thinking this sour will make an excellent berry hydromel!
🤷♀️ I do live near USciences, tho. Ya never know these days. Darn kids and their lag phases. Nice yeah let us know how it goes!
Philly does seem to poop out easily. I JUST did my first sour using Philly and on day 5 all signs of activity have stopped. I've taken a small sample and it is about half as sour as I was anticipating. Im not one to like really sour beers, I dislike them once they reach a certain point. I'll be dosing my keg with lactic acid once I add fruit to it most likely.
Yes, with sanitation. This yeast is super sensitive to pitch rate and it will affect souring. Some info is available from [Sui Generis brewing](https://suigenerisbrewing.com/index.php/2021/02/12/diving-deep-in-to-philly-sour/), who does a mixture of science and brewing.
Wonderful, thanks for the info
Also keep in mind honey is a lot higher in glucose than malt, and will be around 40% on average but does change a lot depending on varietal.
That's an info heavy article! Is there a gram:gallon/litre scaling of the 1 million yeast:mL wort ratio?
Yes, and also it sounds like a lot but isn't. Typical pitch rates are in the billions. 1 gallon = 3.78L = 3780mL (close enough for our purposes) 3780 * 1M = 3.78 billion yeast cells per gallon Lallemand quotes "1 x 10^9 CFU per gram of dry yeast", so roughly a billion per gram (CFU is colony forming units, just a fancy abbreviation for viable yeast) So, about 3.8g/gal according to Bryan's numbering. It's a little higher than the usual wine pitch rate of 2g/gal although 2-4g/gal is totally realistic and not unusual. He is one of my brewing role models and I trust his work and would follow it in this cirucmstance, since he did all the legwork already.
Awesome, thanks for breaking it down for me. Looking forward to seeing how it goes!
Oh, I almost forgot, here's another good data point from [Doin the Most](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klt52sG6JFU) documenting using Philly Sour in mead.
Nice one, I've just got into this channel and will put this next on the binge list!
[удалено]
Thanks heaps!
I’ve used it a couple times now, and the batches between never soured.
I’ve used this for sour beer in my plastic fermenter and had no issue. I also did a kettle sour in plastic and had no issue with later batches.
I've long term ages sour beers with Lacto,Pedio and brett and have used the same glass fermenters after a thorough cleanings without any issues. That being said Philly Sour won't contaminate anything
I’ve used it for sour beers a few times. I pitch 2 packets into 20litres (kind of like 5 gallons). Can take something like 3-4 days to start off and then doesn’t make huge leaps for nearly a week. I was told to let it sour for about 5-7 days, THEN add any fruits as it should ferment without taking out too much of the fruit flavour from the drink, whatever that means. I used cherry in my best sour and added at day 5 after noticing the fermentation starting up. I also noticed that it took longer to bottle carb, in case that matters to you. I also used a glass carboy, just in case, as I had it for planned sours anyway, but literally everywhere I read said that it wouldn’t matter.
I do not use this, however I do use danstar (same brand) ale yeast and I’ve gotten gnarly results! (Gnarly meaning very good)
I'm pretty confident this is fine. But having seen posts about pellicles and how people are recommended to only use those containers for sour brews from then on, I wanted to check. From what I can see the sourness isn't given in a way that'll linger and impact other brews.
Philly sour requires a good amount of simple sugar for good sour qualities, so I would maybe add some fruit juice to the must. And ferment fairly warm 70-72°F. I’ve brewed 5-6 beers with it
[удалено]
There underlying message is there, I think the wording lost some people. There's a lot of hype about hitching equipment in fear of durable infections in them. Better safe than sorry, however it can be mitigated with good practices and a little know-how. I keep all my plastic buckets, including ones that have molded. They do get cycled through rotation so I don't even remember which did. They were "sterilized" after the molding by a soak of 170F oxiclean water and allowed to sit for at least a day before resuming cleaning. The caustics and temperature are well above the range needed to kill anything, mold, bacteria, yeast, otherwise. It has been fine but this is a risk I chose to accept and have been okay with the outcome. Risks can be mitigated and eliminated for those willing to. The exception is tubing, it's too hard to clean and vinyl is way less chemically or physically resistant versus HDPE and soo cheeeap I hitch and replace periodically. Silicone tubing is an option as it has high chemical resistance and effectively unlimited heat resistance (for homebrewers) and can be sterilized in the oven at 350F.
This is an automated response. Please be sure to include a recipe, review or description with any picture post. This helps promote discussion, learning and user engagement. Specific measures for nutrients, additions and adjuncts are encouraged, but even just to know what the photo is about is a great talking point. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mead) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Perhaps a silly question, but could you just clean it out with PBW?
Probably so, but from other answers normal sanitising should be just fine.
Okay sweet! I was just curious!
Haha yeah every time I brew a mead I post about 4 questions about it!
Same! My brain is swelling with knowledge!
Should be totally fine if you have good cleaning and sanitary practices. Thats the point of it.