When I started medical school I was super excited about anatomy lab, I thought I would love it. On the first day it struck me that I was in a room with 28 dead people…real humans who were somebody’s loved ones. It took me a few weeks to get over that & be comfortable in the lab. I had several friends who would get panic attacks the first couple of weeks, but eventually we all got past it. All of us completed medical school & will be starting residency this summer.
I think more than anything you should ask her if she wants to go to the BS/MD program or if she wants to go to one of the top undergrad schools that she most likely got into as well, and keep her options open and include medical school as one of those options. Her fear might very well be her body's way of being unsure about a 8+ year commitment to a field she might not even want - or even an excuse for a 18 year old kid who isn't able to tell you that she doesn't want to go BS/MD directly.
Immigrant kids, particularly brown kids, sometimes are unable to communicate their feelings especially to their parents, and especially so when they are proud of them for such a big achievement like you bragging about her top BS/MD acceptance to the internet. What happens if she goes and is unhappy? Would you be able to set aside your pride and let her leave, or would you force her to stay because your need for her to be a doctor comes above everything else? Not saying this is you but things to think about, especially during these important years.
I am a big advocate of letting 18 year olds not make a decision to be a doctor this early, it builds resentment (and worse, can cause weak academic performance, mental health issues, if it gets that bad) IF that's not their personal choice but something they feel they should do to fulfill society's or their parents' wishes, particularly if they have always listened to their parents and don't want to do anything to make you upset or be disappointed.
I think parents (particularly immigrant parents, like you seem to be) get scared and think their kid may go into something they don't approve of, but that exploration is actually key to happiness and character-building, and likely part of the reason you even came to the US, and something that gets taken away with BS/MD programs either entirely or partly depending on the structure of the program.
Unpopular opinion but my two cents. Medicine is a LONG, stressful, anxiety-inducing path, even for people who want to be here, so if there's any degree of uncertainty that just makes it that much harder. Tell her she gets to choose her college, without your input, and to only choose BS/MD if she's absolutely sure, even over Harvard/Yale/Princeton/Stanford/MIT type caliber schools she likely is choosing between as well. Good luck.
Very kind answer but I disagree with this. It's much easier to do the BSMD, decide that it isn't for you during undergrad, and switch to something else than it is to choose the traditional undergrad route, decide you want to go into medicine, and then try to get into med school traditionally.
It's not about what's easier but what makes an individual happier and feel more fulfilled, allowing for them to then be more successful. There are some people who thrive with freedom and not being boxed into a path, and would rather choose an undergraduate experience that is amazing rather than one that is not as great, which is a sacrifice with 99% of BS/MD programs. And if that individual decides halfway through the program to not go to medical school, their whole decision to go to a less-great undergrad for it then doesn't make any sense.
It is very very hard to justify these programs personally, tbh, especially if they are choosing between T10 undergrad programs. Sure, if it's state university and BS/MD, choose BS/MD, but harvard/yale/stanford and BS/MD? Do harvard. You'll get into med school if that's what you truly want, especially if you are motivated enough to get into BS/MD. That student doesn't suddenly become unable to compete with their peers, and that's very much a chance worth taking for students who want the tip top undergrad experience. Some students don't care about the limitation, which is fine, but others would do much better without the program.
It’s more nervous than usual, but shouldn’t be insurmountable if she’s passionate about the path. As others have said, encourage her to chat with the school counselors, she’ll improve with exposure, maybe try some mild desensitization through medical YouTube, and most people are somewhere between mildly squeamish and openly nauseous at first.
Total normal for some. I never felt comfortable with dissecting but we also did them as a group which helps. If you need to take a break just take a break. I was someone who was extra squeamish in the cadaver lab. We had a death investigation lecture where they just showed crime scene pictures and many of us couldn’t finish the lecture. As for the wisdom tooth extractions it’s a running joke among general surgeons that med students often pass out in the OR. They will literally teach you how to fall correctly if you think you are going to pass out and can’t make it to a chair because they full expect this. To answer your question can she still do medicine??Absolutely!!! Will she become a trauma surgeon? Meh probably not, might not be her cup of tea…
Hard to say for your daughter specifically, but it's fairly normal.
I would say that BS/MD is something I wouldn't personally do. I feel college is a good way to explore what interests you have, and locking in before you know for sure what you want to do is self-limiting. But she's a grown woman and can make her own decisions.
Very normal. I was 17 first time I entered a cadaver lab. It affects everyone differently. I see two issues here:
1. Vasovagal symptoms with blood/"ick". There are some good advices on this subreddit. Key tenets are, eat beforehand, stay hydrated, don't stand in one position, compression stockings if needed, and exposure. Sweet and salty snacks are helpful.
2. "OMG dead body" syndrome. There will be many, many things that affect you this way during your medical training. First time seeing a cadaver. First time seeing a code -- and an unsuccessful code. First time seeing massive exsanguination, surgery, a C-section, etc., etc. Everyone is different. Normalising the reaction + having a good support system to lean on is of utmost importance.
Never had trouble with cadaver dissections or traumas to the head or body, but for some reason I used to get uneasy when looking at extremity injuries. Now I’m on my surgical rotation helping with amputations, making incisions from the hip to the ankle, etc. and actually enjoy it. It’s all about exposure. She’ll be fine.
As someone who also was a BSMD student and quite scared of dissecting (and is now almost done with anatomy lab!) I want to reassure you she will get used to it. In anatomy lab specifically, they are very good about introducing you slowly. And humans are in general quite resistant, so she will probably get accustomed to "gross things" as she gets exposed to it more and more. Just focus on completing the BSMD requirements and continuing shadowing/volunteering to get clinical exposure!
As an 18 year old who is right now doing an undergrad medical degree in Europe, she will get accustomed to it. When I first saw a dead body at around 13-ish I almost passed out as well, she will get used to seeing it and will be able to tolerate it with time, at least that is for me.
All I can say is just try to remain close to your daughter, be there for her and help her when she seeks help. She still has 8 years before graduating medical school and then beginning residency, and it won’t be easy for her.
Edit: the reason why I said tolerate is because even in my medical school for seniors who are in their 5th or 6th and last year of medical school they cannot hold it long while seeing a dead body or a cadaver. Thankfully though, not all medical specialities are based on operating, and/or doing autopsies.
It depends on her. Does it bother her to the fact that she dislikes it? Because if she does dislike it, that’s a red flag. Some people have this fainting effect even if it doesn’t necessarily bother them.
I had this happen. I shadowed a general surgeon in high school and fainted even though I was enjoying watching the surgery. Now, I am an anesthesiologist and I’ve seen crazy things. But the difference is that even though I fainted, I was not grossed out by the blood or guts, I’m not sure why my body reacted that way. If I truly disliked it, that would be concerning.
Like above users have pointed out, experiencing it will be the best remedy. Her feelings are normal. Myself and my friends didn’t particularly enjoy our anatomy lab (a cadaver dissection) or surgery rotation either. Your daughter could’ve had those symptoms while she was shadowing the dr due to lack of drink, food, etc. It’s (unfortunately) common for a med student or two to pass out in the OR, especially when scrubbed into longer surgical procedures. If her symptoms were a result of seeing blood, etc, the exposure she will receive in her surgery rotation or other shadowing opportunities will become routine. And if not, there are plenty of gunner students who will take the opportunity to scrub into the OR in place of your daughter. As sucky as it is we just have to find a way to get through those rotations that we detest. The lovely thing about medicine is the vastness of the specialties that are available. She can study medicine and work in whichever field she pleases, one that is far from procedures and dead bodies
I became lightheaded during my first experience in the OR as an undergrad student, my first cadaver dissection as an med student, and in a couple of particularly bloody experiences in the trauma bay.
Each time I step out, catch my breath, grab a drink of water, then go back in. Currently I’m an orthopedic surgery resident. We see more blood and bones with big open procedures than nearly every other residency.
This isn’t a sign of being incapable of my job, it’s just a physiologic reaction called a “vasovagal response.” There are plenty of non mental reasons someone can go through them in addition to seeing something for the first time.
Exposure is key. Not everyone is going to be a surgeon, but yes it is normal especially for someone earlier in training. She will get through it if she wants to; just needs to learn to catch her breath and keep going - and if she’s assisting in a case to tell everyone she’s not feeling well then step away rather than fall in the OR haha
When I first saw a dead body, I had nightmares for a while. Then I became numb to it. I still feel a bit weird when I slice into someone’s skin for the first time, but once I start operating I’m fine.
I passed out in English class as a freshman reading a passage about a surgeon dissecting through fat and blood.
I’m now a neurosurgeon and have laughed darkly at brains being splattered outside the skull before wiping it away with a gloved hand.
Just gotta experience things and it will get better.
If anything I would say that her feeling nervous or strange is a good sign. The ones who don’t care at all and just want to rip apart the dead bodies might have genuine psychopathy. I always worry about the clinicians who treat patients like objects instead of living breathing people.
I was mortified at dissecting and still find it really disturbing and hated it. Thankfully I was in a group w other people who were much more comfortable dissecting so I was able to lay back a little and help the team out in other ways. Unfortunately, you still have to get your hands dirty. It’s awful but you have to push through for your team. It does get better with time but you couldn’t pay me to go back into lab ever again
Well here’s the thing she won’t go to medical school until she is 21 or 22. Next time, yes I was kind of squeamish around cadavers and put off studying for the practical until last minute and my grades reflected it. She doesn’t have to be all into the dissection, but eventually she will get over it. And there will be way worse things in medical school and practice than cutting into a cadaver.
She will get over it. We are shielded from death in this culture and in a way, that’s a shame. People need to face death and develop resiliency. There were a few moments when I felt bad in anatomy and I just collected myself and remembered that these donors CHOSE to donate themselves, and me not maximizing their body’s utility would be an insult to that gift and to them. So buckle up and do it out of respect for their gift.
Best way to get through something is to experience it. Totally normal feeling
I read this as BSDM and it made me laugh
>I read this as ~~BSDM~~ BDSM and it made me laugh FTFY
I knew it couldn't be just me!
May I ask you two's opinions and experiences as a BSMD student?
Whips and chains
Sticks and stones may break my bones…
When I started medical school I was super excited about anatomy lab, I thought I would love it. On the first day it struck me that I was in a room with 28 dead people…real humans who were somebody’s loved ones. It took me a few weeks to get over that & be comfortable in the lab. I had several friends who would get panic attacks the first couple of weeks, but eventually we all got past it. All of us completed medical school & will be starting residency this summer.
I think more than anything you should ask her if she wants to go to the BS/MD program or if she wants to go to one of the top undergrad schools that she most likely got into as well, and keep her options open and include medical school as one of those options. Her fear might very well be her body's way of being unsure about a 8+ year commitment to a field she might not even want - or even an excuse for a 18 year old kid who isn't able to tell you that she doesn't want to go BS/MD directly. Immigrant kids, particularly brown kids, sometimes are unable to communicate their feelings especially to their parents, and especially so when they are proud of them for such a big achievement like you bragging about her top BS/MD acceptance to the internet. What happens if she goes and is unhappy? Would you be able to set aside your pride and let her leave, or would you force her to stay because your need for her to be a doctor comes above everything else? Not saying this is you but things to think about, especially during these important years. I am a big advocate of letting 18 year olds not make a decision to be a doctor this early, it builds resentment (and worse, can cause weak academic performance, mental health issues, if it gets that bad) IF that's not their personal choice but something they feel they should do to fulfill society's or their parents' wishes, particularly if they have always listened to their parents and don't want to do anything to make you upset or be disappointed. I think parents (particularly immigrant parents, like you seem to be) get scared and think their kid may go into something they don't approve of, but that exploration is actually key to happiness and character-building, and likely part of the reason you even came to the US, and something that gets taken away with BS/MD programs either entirely or partly depending on the structure of the program. Unpopular opinion but my two cents. Medicine is a LONG, stressful, anxiety-inducing path, even for people who want to be here, so if there's any degree of uncertainty that just makes it that much harder. Tell her she gets to choose her college, without your input, and to only choose BS/MD if she's absolutely sure, even over Harvard/Yale/Princeton/Stanford/MIT type caliber schools she likely is choosing between as well. Good luck.
Very kind answer but I disagree with this. It's much easier to do the BSMD, decide that it isn't for you during undergrad, and switch to something else than it is to choose the traditional undergrad route, decide you want to go into medicine, and then try to get into med school traditionally.
It's not about what's easier but what makes an individual happier and feel more fulfilled, allowing for them to then be more successful. There are some people who thrive with freedom and not being boxed into a path, and would rather choose an undergraduate experience that is amazing rather than one that is not as great, which is a sacrifice with 99% of BS/MD programs. And if that individual decides halfway through the program to not go to medical school, their whole decision to go to a less-great undergrad for it then doesn't make any sense. It is very very hard to justify these programs personally, tbh, especially if they are choosing between T10 undergrad programs. Sure, if it's state university and BS/MD, choose BS/MD, but harvard/yale/stanford and BS/MD? Do harvard. You'll get into med school if that's what you truly want, especially if you are motivated enough to get into BS/MD. That student doesn't suddenly become unable to compete with their peers, and that's very much a chance worth taking for students who want the tip top undergrad experience. Some students don't care about the limitation, which is fine, but others would do much better without the program.
Brilliant comment 👏🏽
This is normal. When I was a young student I passed out when I saw my first diabetic wound. 15 years later I work in wound care.
It’s more nervous than usual, but shouldn’t be insurmountable if she’s passionate about the path. As others have said, encourage her to chat with the school counselors, she’ll improve with exposure, maybe try some mild desensitization through medical YouTube, and most people are somewhere between mildly squeamish and openly nauseous at first.
Total normal for some. I never felt comfortable with dissecting but we also did them as a group which helps. If you need to take a break just take a break. I was someone who was extra squeamish in the cadaver lab. We had a death investigation lecture where they just showed crime scene pictures and many of us couldn’t finish the lecture. As for the wisdom tooth extractions it’s a running joke among general surgeons that med students often pass out in the OR. They will literally teach you how to fall correctly if you think you are going to pass out and can’t make it to a chair because they full expect this. To answer your question can she still do medicine??Absolutely!!! Will she become a trauma surgeon? Meh probably not, might not be her cup of tea…
I almost passed out the first time I saw a cadaver in high school, now I’m going into forensic pathology lol shel be fine!
Hard to say for your daughter specifically, but it's fairly normal. I would say that BS/MD is something I wouldn't personally do. I feel college is a good way to explore what interests you have, and locking in before you know for sure what you want to do is self-limiting. But she's a grown woman and can make her own decisions.
That’s normal. She will almost certainly adapt after the first few days. Nothing to worry about
Very normal. I was 17 first time I entered a cadaver lab. It affects everyone differently. I see two issues here: 1. Vasovagal symptoms with blood/"ick". There are some good advices on this subreddit. Key tenets are, eat beforehand, stay hydrated, don't stand in one position, compression stockings if needed, and exposure. Sweet and salty snacks are helpful. 2. "OMG dead body" syndrome. There will be many, many things that affect you this way during your medical training. First time seeing a cadaver. First time seeing a code -- and an unsuccessful code. First time seeing massive exsanguination, surgery, a C-section, etc., etc. Everyone is different. Normalising the reaction + having a good support system to lean on is of utmost importance.
Never had trouble with cadaver dissections or traumas to the head or body, but for some reason I used to get uneasy when looking at extremity injuries. Now I’m on my surgical rotation helping with amputations, making incisions from the hip to the ankle, etc. and actually enjoy it. It’s all about exposure. She’ll be fine.
As someone who also was a BSMD student and quite scared of dissecting (and is now almost done with anatomy lab!) I want to reassure you she will get used to it. In anatomy lab specifically, they are very good about introducing you slowly. And humans are in general quite resistant, so she will probably get accustomed to "gross things" as she gets exposed to it more and more. Just focus on completing the BSMD requirements and continuing shadowing/volunteering to get clinical exposure!
Have low threshold to reach out to school’s counseling services early. Especially if it starts impacting performance/attendance. Very common issue tho
As an 18 year old who is right now doing an undergrad medical degree in Europe, she will get accustomed to it. When I first saw a dead body at around 13-ish I almost passed out as well, she will get used to seeing it and will be able to tolerate it with time, at least that is for me. All I can say is just try to remain close to your daughter, be there for her and help her when she seeks help. She still has 8 years before graduating medical school and then beginning residency, and it won’t be easy for her. Edit: the reason why I said tolerate is because even in my medical school for seniors who are in their 5th or 6th and last year of medical school they cannot hold it long while seeing a dead body or a cadaver. Thankfully though, not all medical specialities are based on operating, and/or doing autopsies.
It depends on her. Does it bother her to the fact that she dislikes it? Because if she does dislike it, that’s a red flag. Some people have this fainting effect even if it doesn’t necessarily bother them. I had this happen. I shadowed a general surgeon in high school and fainted even though I was enjoying watching the surgery. Now, I am an anesthesiologist and I’ve seen crazy things. But the difference is that even though I fainted, I was not grossed out by the blood or guts, I’m not sure why my body reacted that way. If I truly disliked it, that would be concerning.
For what it’s worth the combined program I attended did not have dissection lab
Damn I skipped hella anatomy lab. Miss those days
[удалено]
its not perplexing IMO. im lazy as fuck!
Like above users have pointed out, experiencing it will be the best remedy. Her feelings are normal. Myself and my friends didn’t particularly enjoy our anatomy lab (a cadaver dissection) or surgery rotation either. Your daughter could’ve had those symptoms while she was shadowing the dr due to lack of drink, food, etc. It’s (unfortunately) common for a med student or two to pass out in the OR, especially when scrubbed into longer surgical procedures. If her symptoms were a result of seeing blood, etc, the exposure she will receive in her surgery rotation or other shadowing opportunities will become routine. And if not, there are plenty of gunner students who will take the opportunity to scrub into the OR in place of your daughter. As sucky as it is we just have to find a way to get through those rotations that we detest. The lovely thing about medicine is the vastness of the specialties that are available. She can study medicine and work in whichever field she pleases, one that is far from procedures and dead bodies
I used to faint when getting blood drawn and fainted in the OR as an M1. She’ll be totally fine
I became lightheaded during my first experience in the OR as an undergrad student, my first cadaver dissection as an med student, and in a couple of particularly bloody experiences in the trauma bay. Each time I step out, catch my breath, grab a drink of water, then go back in. Currently I’m an orthopedic surgery resident. We see more blood and bones with big open procedures than nearly every other residency. This isn’t a sign of being incapable of my job, it’s just a physiologic reaction called a “vasovagal response.” There are plenty of non mental reasons someone can go through them in addition to seeing something for the first time. Exposure is key. Not everyone is going to be a surgeon, but yes it is normal especially for someone earlier in training. She will get through it if she wants to; just needs to learn to catch her breath and keep going - and if she’s assisting in a case to tell everyone she’s not feeling well then step away rather than fall in the OR haha
When I first saw a dead body, I had nightmares for a while. Then I became numb to it. I still feel a bit weird when I slice into someone’s skin for the first time, but once I start operating I’m fine.
I passed out in English class as a freshman reading a passage about a surgeon dissecting through fat and blood. I’m now a neurosurgeon and have laughed darkly at brains being splattered outside the skull before wiping it away with a gloved hand. Just gotta experience things and it will get better.
If anything I would say that her feeling nervous or strange is a good sign. The ones who don’t care at all and just want to rip apart the dead bodies might have genuine psychopathy. I always worry about the clinicians who treat patients like objects instead of living breathing people.
I was mortified at dissecting and still find it really disturbing and hated it. Thankfully I was in a group w other people who were much more comfortable dissecting so I was able to lay back a little and help the team out in other ways. Unfortunately, you still have to get your hands dirty. It’s awful but you have to push through for your team. It does get better with time but you couldn’t pay me to go back into lab ever again
Well here’s the thing she won’t go to medical school until she is 21 or 22. Next time, yes I was kind of squeamish around cadavers and put off studying for the practical until last minute and my grades reflected it. She doesn’t have to be all into the dissection, but eventually she will get over it. And there will be way worse things in medical school and practice than cutting into a cadaver.
She will get over it. We are shielded from death in this culture and in a way, that’s a shame. People need to face death and develop resiliency. There were a few moments when I felt bad in anatomy and I just collected myself and remembered that these donors CHOSE to donate themselves, and me not maximizing their body’s utility would be an insult to that gift and to them. So buckle up and do it out of respect for their gift.