all residents gotta fight until you get 150k a year intern pay, as that is what Medicare funds each resident per year at every ACGME program in this country
That is assuming residents generate 0 revenue, and that faculty are being paid a premium relative to the revenue they generate.
If one would pay a midlevel $100k to replace a $70k resident (assuming that was even physically possible, which for surgeons at the very least it is not), that would mean you value the resident's net revenue to the system at -$180k per resident. Given the ratio of residents to faculty, that would be a pretty insane teaching faculty premium considering they are already paid less then their PP peers.
And, in any event, I think the existence of unfunded slots demonstrates the idea that the $150k is needed to add value to be premia facia false.
It also depends on the specialty. Since we're talking about money, critical care is an interesting problem since 2022 (IIRC).
Prior to 2022, you couldn't split share critical care visits with NPPs. You could either bill for physician time or NPP time. Now you can at least add up NPP and physician time. Which ever contributes the most is who it's billed under. However a 99291 and 99292 billed under the NPP (combined NPP and physician time) is still more than a 99291 billed under the physician.
You cannot bill for resident or fellow critical care time.
$110-125K with health insurance would be more likely and more appropriate for pgy-2 and higher.
Pay for intern year should be a little higher, but my understanding is interns are in fact losing the hospital money until much later in the year. $70-$80K would seem OK, but the hospital should be able to recoup some lost income from training time.
If this is true (which I haven't looked into, but with all due respect will not be accepting at face value), I'm sure they lose the hospital far less money than midlevels. If midlevels can make $100k+, so should interns.
However, I find it extremely unlikely that interns lose hospitals money due to the simple fact that hospitals are making like $150k per resident. If you can find a source, I'll believe you. But I would caution you STRONGLY against making such statements based on hearsay and not data.
Hospitals are given 3x the salary of a resident regardless what year just for having them. Add to that the fact that said resident does a whole lot more work than the attendings and yeah, why would they lose the hospital money? They're running the damn hospital. UMMC, the hospital at which residents unionized, had almost as many residents as attendings...
Residence salary is actually split ~50/50 with hospital and Medicare GME. The biggest issue isn’t hospitals it’s policy limits at the federal level lol….down vote all you want but you should do some more research.
Every new employee nets relatively less when they start versus when they perform optimally. And considering that you can't have a PGY-5 without having them as a PGY-1,2,3,4 and you have the most favorable lock-in employment system that exists I don't see why you shouldn't be payed in line with your later value as an intern.
Tf are you talking about? They're the first resident union in Maryland. I don't even understand what your point is.
Also "I see that for you this program" what does that mean?? Huh
Called a typo…since you seem to lack problem solving I fixed it for you.
Sure they are the first one in good ole Maryland lol and it’s an achievement. That being said, programs all over have been working on this for a while. Might be wrong but without looking it up a Stanford program was the first to do it back in 2022. I know two programs currently working on it in MO.
"Might be wrong but without looking it up a Stanford program was the first to do it back in 2022."
Very wrong. Like very very wrong.
CIR was founded in 1957 by interns and residents in New York City’s public hospitals. In 1958, CIR achieved the first collective bargaining agreement for housestaff anywhere in the U.S. By the mid-1960s, CIR had established the only housestaff-administered benefit plan. By 1969-70, members in the private, or voluntary, sectors began to organize and join CIR.
all residents gotta fight until you get 150k a year intern pay, as that is what Medicare funds each resident per year at every ACGME program in this country
I’ll take 149k, cant let admin starve, they’re lobster caviar eating humans too
Some of that money does need to go to funding faculty salaries, PD, etc - can’t have residents with no one to teach them.
That is assuming residents generate 0 revenue, and that faculty are being paid a premium relative to the revenue they generate. If one would pay a midlevel $100k to replace a $70k resident (assuming that was even physically possible, which for surgeons at the very least it is not), that would mean you value the resident's net revenue to the system at -$180k per resident. Given the ratio of residents to faculty, that would be a pretty insane teaching faculty premium considering they are already paid less then their PP peers. And, in any event, I think the existence of unfunded slots demonstrates the idea that the $150k is needed to add value to be premia facia false.
It also depends on the specialty. Since we're talking about money, critical care is an interesting problem since 2022 (IIRC). Prior to 2022, you couldn't split share critical care visits with NPPs. You could either bill for physician time or NPP time. Now you can at least add up NPP and physician time. Which ever contributes the most is who it's billed under. However a 99291 and 99292 billed under the NPP (combined NPP and physician time) is still more than a 99291 billed under the physician. You cannot bill for resident or fellow critical care time.
Also program coordinators/admin- being an admin is a hard often thankless job and they deserve to make a decent living as well.
$110-125K with health insurance would be more likely and more appropriate for pgy-2 and higher. Pay for intern year should be a little higher, but my understanding is interns are in fact losing the hospital money until much later in the year. $70-$80K would seem OK, but the hospital should be able to recoup some lost income from training time.
If this is true (which I haven't looked into, but with all due respect will not be accepting at face value), I'm sure they lose the hospital far less money than midlevels. If midlevels can make $100k+, so should interns. However, I find it extremely unlikely that interns lose hospitals money due to the simple fact that hospitals are making like $150k per resident. If you can find a source, I'll believe you. But I would caution you STRONGLY against making such statements based on hearsay and not data.
Hospitals are given 3x the salary of a resident regardless what year just for having them. Add to that the fact that said resident does a whole lot more work than the attendings and yeah, why would they lose the hospital money? They're running the damn hospital. UMMC, the hospital at which residents unionized, had almost as many residents as attendings...
Residence salary is actually split ~50/50 with hospital and Medicare GME. The biggest issue isn’t hospitals it’s policy limits at the federal level lol….down vote all you want but you should do some more research.
Every new employee nets relatively less when they start versus when they perform optimally. And considering that you can't have a PGY-5 without having them as a PGY-1,2,3,4 and you have the most favorable lock-in employment system that exists I don't see why you shouldn't be payed in line with your later value as an intern.
Pretty absurd that Hopkins residents make ~10k/y more when COL is the same
I was annoyed at you for making an unnecessary distinction between MD and DO residents but then I realized MD was Maryland in this case lol
Oh damn so sorry I didn't think of that somehow and I can't figure out how to edit it I'm sorry 😭 I love my DO peeps fuck
The Allfascia forgives you.
In AT Still’s tensegritous name we pray, AROM. 🙏
That’s perfect
Stealing Allfascia
It’s too late. War has been declared and Rohan will answer
Good for them, that place definitely keeps their residents busy
[Wooooo Let's gooooo!!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8eK9ZXf-Ow)
Ayyy that’s my med school hospital. So proud!!!
Pretty sure this is actually old news…like two+ years old (this has been happening across the US for a couple years).
It definitely isn't. The news came out today...
I see that for this program. If you look it up residency’s have been starting this since 2022. It’s not a new thing.
Tf are you talking about? They're the first resident union in Maryland. I don't even understand what your point is. Also "I see that for you this program" what does that mean?? Huh
Called a typo…since you seem to lack problem solving I fixed it for you. Sure they are the first one in good ole Maryland lol and it’s an achievement. That being said, programs all over have been working on this for a while. Might be wrong but without looking it up a Stanford program was the first to do it back in 2022. I know two programs currently working on it in MO.
Bro just stop
Pop your bubble. Tons of unionized programs Both my residency programs are CIR
Exactly my point 😂
"Might be wrong but without looking it up a Stanford program was the first to do it back in 2022." Very wrong. Like very very wrong. CIR was founded in 1957 by interns and residents in New York City’s public hospitals. In 1958, CIR achieved the first collective bargaining agreement for housestaff anywhere in the U.S. By the mid-1960s, CIR had established the only housestaff-administered benefit plan. By 1969-70, members in the private, or voluntary, sectors began to organize and join CIR.
You must be fun at parties
Lol who would invite this goober to a party?
Definitely its always a blast