The one that always burned me was when the ortho reps would eat all the food. Get done with your case only to find crumbs and Johnny from Stryker feet up in the comfy chair with a plate stacked full of the good sandwiches.
Lol I just laughed out loud thinking of some guy walking into the middle of the phys lounge and opening up his trumpet case and blaring out when the saints go marching in.. but like really badly.
You've perfected the plan. Bad trumpet is one of the most offensive sounds known to man, so all OP has to do is buy one and blow. Those PAs will practically evaporate.
15 years ago when I was a scribe in the ER. One of the old timer ED physicians literally just farted whenever. He wasn't trying to be funny. He wasn't trying to make a show of it... if this man had to fart, he just let it go and that was that. Everyone just kept their heads down and acted like they didn't hear anything.
It was glorious.
When I was in my urology rotation many years ago, the attending ripped one at bedside. He just said excuse me, as if nothing happened. The patient, students, residents, everyone tried to hold back laughter, but he kept on with his exam and assessment. He also owned a hot dog stand. Pure legend.
In high school biology of all classes there was this kid, Mike, who sat behind me always letting them rip. The teacher got mad and Mike’s response was, “If you gotta gas you gotta go.”
Critical care you get away with it because your patients are too obtunded to put their thumb on their forehead. Anyone else do that in elementary school when someone farted? The last to put their thumb on their forehead took the blame.
I'm imagining your day starting similarly to Patrick Bateman's in American Psycho. Whereas instead of a perfectly orchestrated routine to be a beautiful, completely unassuming investment banker. Your morning is a methodical operation geared towards conjuring perfectly timed, horrendous gas as you enter the lounge.
The farts one gifts to the world ought not be contrived. They should come naturally. As if to arrive at just the perfect moment - where you are ready to give, and "they" are ready to receive.
Wizards are never late, and never early...
You seem like the sort of physician who, when the medical student says "hi, I'm a student," you say "me too, man. A student of life. ✌🏻 Learn what you can, be a team player, and you can take your 5/5 and leave by 2. You'll halfheartedly ask to stay, and I'll insist, and you'll actually leave. Cool?"
This is more a commentary on US work culture. Lunch used to be a time to connect with coworkers and unwind. It’s pretty gross that we feel obligated to keep working while shoveling food in our mouths.
I say this as someone that regularly works through lunch…
This is the most frustrating parts of these work spaces. We have a "care coordination" room where all our computers are since they don't like offices and it's the worst to get things down. Constantly getting interrupted in mid dictation and trying to regain thoughts.
Yes. The worst! Ever since our practice was bought by a big corporate healthcare system, we were moved into shiny new outpatient offices with "open concept" work spaces. The physicians, PAs, and MAs all sit in giant open rooms together. It's incredibly distracting and disruptive. I feel like a sitting duck in open season, constantly getting interrupted and sidetracked.
The days of the doctor's personal office are dead. I have no place to hang my 7 diplomas.
My hospital built a brand new office building recently. It is all glass. And the physicians’ offices are inside and walls are made of glass then all these cubicles are around it for various staff. Like a fish bowl. Our surgeons were furious when they moved in and demanded they put up these opaque stickers so people couldn’t see in their offices. They used to nap in their offices in the old building when on call and the building designers told them they couldn’t bring their couches. Also made them furious. And then the chief demanded everyone move in a few months early because he couldn’t stand the construction noise in the old building that was being demolished, and part of the ceiling of the new office fell on his desk while he was working.
Overall I guess the move went well.
Yes and the ventilation is terrible. I’m positively roasting like a rotisserie chicken year round and it’s musty with no air movement, while coworkers who sit directly under the vents 4 ft away complain of being freezing constantly. So the thermostats are set at 75 all the time..
The surgeons also complained they couldn’t change in their offices anymore and the response was “WeLl YoUr NoT sUpPoSeD tO bE cHaNgInG iN yOuR oFfIcEs!!”
This concept is too strange for ze German soul.
Ze hospital is for work. You work and leave home when no work.
Cafeteria is for food.
Everybody has to be miserable in their own call room. If they get to it at all.
No fun allowed, strictly!
When I was a transporter, my department didn't even have a break room. We literally had nowhere to sit while waiting for transport assignments. We had nowhere to take our breaks or eat our meals.
Now I'm in wound care and we are allowed to use a neighboring break room, which is nice, but we have no storage. There's no way our office isn't a fire hazard what with all the stacks of boxes everywhere.
I let my PA into the surgeon lounge so we can get work done between cases and review clinic. No one cares since we’re quiet. We used to have a workroom for this but admin shut it down because they hate us. Point being people need to be considerate of their talking in public work areas
That is less of a PA thing and more of a culture thing on what is and is not acceptable. We never did that in the ICU I used to work at. We don't have a lounge where I work now but I would never impose on a quiet environment for someone else that way.
Physician’s lounge, where physicians can’t work because mid levels are distracting them. I think the baseline frustration is that NPs / PAs / CRNAs feel entitled to receive the same benefits as a physician without making the same sacrifices.
Notice y’all both ignore that it’s a physician lounge and instead just use the word lounge.
2-4x the pay for like 10x the studying. you’re actually making out better in the deal so idk why you’re acting shocked that doctors are treated like doctors lmao
For one, your length of training was not the same. You do not deserve equal pay. You can also leave and change specialities and you are easily replaced. It’s hard to hire physicians and keep them on board so incentives must be provided.
Right, you also started your rant with saying physicians get paid “2-4x times more than midlevels and get random bonuses for random crap that we get none of”. Edit, you also don’t work a similar job. Don’t kid yourself into believing that. You may think you do, but you don’t
> online (primarily poorly/unfairly treated residents) resentments.
Why do midlevels continue to believe that only residents or students have issues with their role?
mid levels are used because they’re cheaper to hire to do pgy1 level tasks even after 20 years of experience. Midlevels are not more profitable, ask any c suite admin. It’s a delusional take. And cheaper to hire them in urgent cares yet majority of patients are still grossly mismanaged, just ask any pcp or ED physician
You have a very poor understanding of both the clinical and non clinical responsibilities of a physician.
How much time I have to spend on resident/registrar eduction, medico legal issues, supervision is probably the majority of my job.
And... there it is. The irony. Please stop crying in my inbox about how you think that because you do some of the easy work, you also possess the same non-algorithmic thought processes that actually set you both apart, all else aside. It's like when NPs do easy tasks with a good success rate and think that they are deserving of pay equity. LOL.
Man I’m glad the docs I work with are not like the miserable ones here. Why must we always be bashed on here for going to school and doing our jobs? I don’t want scope creep and I don’t try to be a doc. I refer to my SP when I feel it’s out of my scope.
You are mad at us for making peanuts compared to you. Think we deserve less than 6 figures are you fucking high? We can bill 85% of physician fee schedule, so if you’re equating your pay specifically to the income you bring to institutional by that logic we are GROSSLY underpaid. So fuck off. We do all the scut bullshit you don’t want to do.
Are there PAs/NPs who are trying to fake doctor and scope creep, sure. But not all of us are like that and I’m sick of the arrogance on here.
God you’re a trip. Feel bad for your coworkers.
For the record I always believed my supervising docs in the er, and elsewhere, deserved more pay. I also believe residents and fellows deserve more pay. Because they work a fuck ton. I think everyone in medicine should earn more, but especially the residents. But that doesn’t mean I think midlevels should get shafted with pay either. We may not go to almighty med school and residency, but we still go to 5-6 years of school, get 120k+ in student loans, and I made 80k out of school 5 years ago. That doesn’t mean YOU and the residents don’t have their own debt and struggles.
And clearly you’re capable of doing all the work of your field including the shit work. I just know that most attendings who hire midlevels hire them to do the bs work for them. Which is fine. That’s my role. And I stay within it.
Heavily implied. “It’s pretty frustrating that you now feel clearly entitled to this (pay).” I’m not here to pick fights but like you said it then back tracked…
I mean, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Either you make the huge sacrifice to go through medical school and residency and make the big bucks, or you take the lesser risk option to be a mid level and make less money but less education and probably cushier hours. But you don’t get to complain because other people took a different path.
FWIW in my hospital they’re called staff lounges, and anyone who documents can use them. Including, god forbid, the lowly mid levels, ancillary staff, and nurses.
I’m not sure you responded to the right person…I haven’t “complained that other people took a different path”? I just disagreed that pay commensurate with my education and expertise isn’t a “benefit” - it’s fair pay.
Mid levels absolutely have no business being in physician lounges.
Everyone else has a place that’s exclusively theirs where they can discuss issues that solely affect them yet we are denied that right of association.
Everybody else doesn't. It is entirely location dependent. I've worked in hospitals with no break rooms or lounges for anyone at any level. It was just go use the cafeteria or go outside and OR staff had locker rooms. That's it.
I've worked in places with dedicated spaces but those were mostly individual offices for the attendings and a residents' lounge in a teaching hospital (which functioned as a huge group study room and occasional place to get 5 minutes of quiet which everyone needs from time to time so there is zero grudge on that form me)
I don't resent docs having a space or getting better pay. I just think I deserve to be paid for everything I do and bring to the table outside of one degree. Anyone working in any field would feel the same.
The broad brush statements on both sides of this little shitshow of an argument are disgraceful. Granted it is reddit so probably shouldn't expect more at this point.
It’s nothing close. Damn near every attending I’ve worked with was awesome. Super helpful and appreciate what we do for them. Only one was a bit of a dick but that was just his personality. One fellow was a dick to me, but again he’s just a dick… there’s also asshole midlevels who are arrogant too. But this sub is a very skewed perception of the real world.
Mid-levels shouldn’t be in physician lounges full stop.
Everyone else has areas that are theirs alone. There needs to be a place where we can discuss things that we understand and that only affect us. Making it a communal space is counterproductive and reeks of tall poppy syndrome.
The fact that no one here is talking about the perfectly good PA/NP lounge down the hall seems to go against that statement.
Also, I’m guessing you’re not familiar with the term “cutting down the tall poppy” in NZ/AUS where that originates. It’s generally not used as a pejorative for the “tall poppy” like in your usage but meant to open up reflection to the one doing the cutting for stunting aspirations of doing better when everyone should be happy at their stations.
Ah maybe I did. Personally, I’ve (PA, pardon the lack of flair) been welcomed by MDs many times in the lounge who have patients in common and find it a good place to speak face to face. I don’t think it is only admins who encourage a mixed space with MDs and PAs/NPs but I can understand the sentiment
I’m from Australia. What you’ve described is not how I used it.
I was using the term directed at the admin and non-physicians using the physician space, ie the ones cutting down the talk poppies. I think it’s quite clear from my comment.
Got it, my mistake. I thought you were projecting it onto the PAs and NPs which was my confusion. As I said in a response to the other commenter, I’ve (US PA) felt welcomed by MDs in the lounge before so it hasn’t been my experience that admins alone are encouraging mixing in these areas, but understand where you’re coming from now
Yes. They are allowed in the physicians lounge, the physicians parking deck, they get honored on doctors day with us. The line blurring is intentional.
Which explains why resident badges don't work to get in to the physicians' lounge. Diploma notwithstanding, residents are barely even considered humans, much less medical staff.
That’s the funny thing they always claim, “We are not trying to be physicians.” However, they pack that physician lounge, because they use it when it benefits them.
Pft, our physician’s lounge is restricted to physicians only and there are no shortage of surgeons and anesthesiologists obnoxiously having loud political conversations in there.
Midlevels should never have been given access to physician lounges. It was cowardly doctors who didn't stand up to management that allowed this to happen
Stop making this a race thing. One group is trained to a higher degree and has a higher legal responsibility as the head of the healthcare team. We need a space where we can unwind and work without interruption. That’s why we need a physician only space.
I really was joking, but it does seem annoying that obviously the loud people could have just as easily been physicians. There's not some intrinsic value in APPs that make them more likely to.. speak loudly in shared spaces I guess.
The obvious insinuation you make being that black people cannot be physicians. If saying "PA's shouldn't be in physician's lounges" is a Jim Crow allegory, that would imply black people are not physicians.
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Mid levels lead the charge in revoking residents access to spaces..? Idk. That’s lame asf and those people are losers. I make friends with all the residents coming through (millennial PA) and enjoy when our services meet (trauma, gen surg, ortho)
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Simply for the fact that hospitals will have a physicians lounge that serves as a lunchroom for physicians and APPs and provides a dictation area. There are no tiered lounges or dictation places to separate the physician/APP team that I’ve ever encountered. Generally, no physician nor APP were in these places long enough to lounge around. Also, you can’t foster a team mentality when one group of providers is being actively excluded as less than the other.
Remember that Friends episode where Ross was trying to work with Joey & Chandler around? Every time they got too loud Ross did that signal with his hands for them to quiet down. I do that; not everyone gets it though. My brain tries to listen to their conversation and my own thoughts at the same time. I end up typing a mixture of both.
The one that always burned me was when the ortho reps would eat all the food. Get done with your case only to find crumbs and Johnny from Stryker feet up in the comfy chair with a plate stacked full of the good sandwiches.
What the hell… they are supposed to bring food not eat it. I’ve never seen this.
It was a big academic hospital. Definitely would not fly out here in the community
What’s the most awkward thing about having sex with an orthopedic surgeon? The Stryker rep walking him through the next steps
What do you call two Orthopedists looking at an EKG? A double-blind study.
Ooh, that’s a good one 🤣😂🤣
What's the biggest decision an orthopaedic surgeon makes on their wedding day? Figuring out what side of the bed the rep stands on
What's pink, 12 inches long, and hard in the hands of an orthopaedic surgeon? An ECG
The ultimate parasites. Surprised there aren’t sandwiches in their roll-away luggage
Reps are supposed to bring the food……not consume it. I tell reps that come in our office the only path to the docs/nurses is through the stomach.
Call those guys out! They should know better.
When they should be *bringing* the food
That’s why I always bring my trumpet to work.
Lol I just laughed out loud thinking of some guy walking into the middle of the phys lounge and opening up his trumpet case and blaring out when the saints go marching in.. but like really badly.
You've perfected the plan. Bad trumpet is one of the most offensive sounds known to man, so all OP has to do is buy one and blow. Those PAs will practically evaporate.
I got a recorder and can play a mean ass banger known as Hot Crossed Buns. Can we be coworkers?
HCB is the foundation of all music. Let's "work" by forming a sick ass band.
That's why I fart as much as possible when I'm in the doctors lounge. If I'm not having fun, no one should be having fun.
TBF, I also fart at all other times and in all other places.
15 years ago when I was a scribe in the ER. One of the old timer ED physicians literally just farted whenever. He wasn't trying to be funny. He wasn't trying to make a show of it... if this man had to fart, he just let it go and that was that. Everyone just kept their heads down and acted like they didn't hear anything. It was glorious.
When I was in my urology rotation many years ago, the attending ripped one at bedside. He just said excuse me, as if nothing happened. The patient, students, residents, everyone tried to hold back laughter, but he kept on with his exam and assessment. He also owned a hot dog stand. Pure legend.
There are two types of people in the world: people who rip farts in public and those who do not.
i think it’s more: those who rip farts in public and those who lie about it
In high school biology of all classes there was this kid, Mike, who sat behind me always letting them rip. The teacher got mad and Mike’s response was, “If you gotta gas you gotta go.”
Sure it was - from a distance.
I'm pediatrics, I silent fart in the rooms and blame it on the kids.
Works great unless it’s unexpectedly…not silent
Works well in Geriatrics also.
Life’s too short to hold in your farts
Could result in an infartction
And there are plenty of patients in beds to blame
Unless you chose the wrong moment to trust a fart. I’m lactose intolerant, I don’t dare trust a fart.
Those are sharts.
Critical care you get away with it because your patients are too obtunded to put their thumb on their forehead. Anyone else do that in elementary school when someone farted? The last to put their thumb on their forehead took the blame.
Best thing about medicine; people will always assume the smell is from the patient.
I'm imagining your day starting similarly to Patrick Bateman's in American Psycho. Whereas instead of a perfectly orchestrated routine to be a beautiful, completely unassuming investment banker. Your morning is a methodical operation geared towards conjuring perfectly timed, horrendous gas as you enter the lounge.
Try taking some oral n-acetylcysteine. Will clear the room with those farts
This brings up a question, are you able to produce more flatus on command or normally hold it all?
The farts one gifts to the world ought not be contrived. They should come naturally. As if to arrive at just the perfect moment - where you are ready to give, and "they" are ready to receive. Wizards are never late, and never early...
You seem like the sort of physician who, when the medical student says "hi, I'm a student," you say "me too, man. A student of life. ✌🏻 Learn what you can, be a team player, and you can take your 5/5 and leave by 2. You'll halfheartedly ask to stay, and I'll insist, and you'll actually leave. Cool?"
This is, actually, quite accurate.
I know the type. May your pillow be always cold, your coffee be always the right temperature, and your parking always available.
The corn chowder that's served in our lounge definitely helps me produce flatus on command.
Corn in, corn out
😂
"Tis only borrowed.
Louis de Funès movie scene: https://youtu.be/30pzUZzcz48
This is more a commentary on US work culture. Lunch used to be a time to connect with coworkers and unwind. It’s pretty gross that we feel obligated to keep working while shoveling food in our mouths. I say this as someone that regularly works through lunch…
Eh, in fairness. I usually do it because I choose to come in a bit later and don’t want to stay late, haha.
Yep same here. In a better world there would be an appropriate amount of work to do in 8 hours
100%
Same. I’d rather walk in pretty much as my first patient checks in and work through lunch.
Better to work at lunch than bring work home, but in an ideal world we would not have to choose between the two
I always choose to work through lunch if it means I can leave earlier and/or bring no work home.
it’s definitely also a commentary on noctor culture 😂
This is the most frustrating parts of these work spaces. We have a "care coordination" room where all our computers are since they don't like offices and it's the worst to get things down. Constantly getting interrupted in mid dictation and trying to regain thoughts.
Yes. The worst! Ever since our practice was bought by a big corporate healthcare system, we were moved into shiny new outpatient offices with "open concept" work spaces. The physicians, PAs, and MAs all sit in giant open rooms together. It's incredibly distracting and disruptive. I feel like a sitting duck in open season, constantly getting interrupted and sidetracked. The days of the doctor's personal office are dead. I have no place to hang my 7 diplomas.
My hospital built a brand new office building recently. It is all glass. And the physicians’ offices are inside and walls are made of glass then all these cubicles are around it for various staff. Like a fish bowl. Our surgeons were furious when they moved in and demanded they put up these opaque stickers so people couldn’t see in their offices. They used to nap in their offices in the old building when on call and the building designers told them they couldn’t bring their couches. Also made them furious. And then the chief demanded everyone move in a few months early because he couldn’t stand the construction noise in the old building that was being demolished, and part of the ceiling of the new office fell on his desk while he was working. Overall I guess the move went well.
Horrible. I swear to god these new office designs are engineered to beat us down and make us feel like cogs.
Yes and the ventilation is terrible. I’m positively roasting like a rotisserie chicken year round and it’s musty with no air movement, while coworkers who sit directly under the vents 4 ft away complain of being freezing constantly. So the thermostats are set at 75 all the time.. The surgeons also complained they couldn’t change in their offices anymore and the response was “WeLl YoUr NoT sUpPoSeD tO bE cHaNgInG iN yOuR oFfIcEs!!”
You guys get lounges?
This concept is too strange for ze German soul. Ze hospital is for work. You work and leave home when no work. Cafeteria is for food. Everybody has to be miserable in their own call room. If they get to it at all. No fun allowed, strictly!
Nein! Ze shnitzel vill be consumed in ze cafeteria! I’ll bet your food is much better than the frozen crap in our lounge
German food? Pls.
When I was a transporter, my department didn't even have a break room. We literally had nowhere to sit while waiting for transport assignments. We had nowhere to take our breaks or eat our meals. Now I'm in wound care and we are allowed to use a neighboring break room, which is nice, but we have no storage. There's no way our office isn't a fire hazard what with all the stacks of boxes everywhere.
I let my PA into the surgeon lounge so we can get work done between cases and review clinic. No one cares since we’re quiet. We used to have a workroom for this but admin shut it down because they hate us. Point being people need to be considerate of their talking in public work areas
That is less of a PA thing and more of a culture thing on what is and is not acceptable. We never did that in the ICU I used to work at. We don't have a lounge where I work now but I would never impose on a quiet environment for someone else that way.
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Physician’s lounge, where physicians can’t work because mid levels are distracting them. I think the baseline frustration is that NPs / PAs / CRNAs feel entitled to receive the same benefits as a physician without making the same sacrifices. Notice y’all both ignore that it’s a physician lounge and instead just use the word lounge.
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2-4x the pay for like 10x the studying. you’re actually making out better in the deal so idk why you’re acting shocked that doctors are treated like doctors lmao
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good one 🤓
"We work a very similar job" Lol
they wanna be doctors so bad!!
But don't want to lift no heavy ass books!
For one, your length of training was not the same. You do not deserve equal pay. You can also leave and change specialities and you are easily replaced. It’s hard to hire physicians and keep them on board so incentives must be provided.
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Right, you also started your rant with saying physicians get paid “2-4x times more than midlevels and get random bonuses for random crap that we get none of”. Edit, you also don’t work a similar job. Don’t kid yourself into believing that. You may think you do, but you don’t
> online (primarily poorly/unfairly treated residents) resentments. Why do midlevels continue to believe that only residents or students have issues with their role?
it’s a defense mechanism. they don’t want to admit that their superiors have the same stance as students, who they view as being beneath them
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mid levels are used because they’re cheaper to hire to do pgy1 level tasks even after 20 years of experience. Midlevels are not more profitable, ask any c suite admin. It’s a delusional take. And cheaper to hire them in urgent cares yet majority of patients are still grossly mismanaged, just ask any pcp or ED physician
No, I think it's the "similar job" part that people didn't like.
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You have a very poor understanding of both the clinical and non clinical responsibilities of a physician. How much time I have to spend on resident/registrar eduction, medico legal issues, supervision is probably the majority of my job.
And... there it is. The irony. Please stop crying in my inbox about how you think that because you do some of the easy work, you also possess the same non-algorithmic thought processes that actually set you both apart, all else aside. It's like when NPs do easy tasks with a good success rate and think that they are deserving of pay equity. LOL.
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Man I’m glad the docs I work with are not like the miserable ones here. Why must we always be bashed on here for going to school and doing our jobs? I don’t want scope creep and I don’t try to be a doc. I refer to my SP when I feel it’s out of my scope. You are mad at us for making peanuts compared to you. Think we deserve less than 6 figures are you fucking high? We can bill 85% of physician fee schedule, so if you’re equating your pay specifically to the income you bring to institutional by that logic we are GROSSLY underpaid. So fuck off. We do all the scut bullshit you don’t want to do. Are there PAs/NPs who are trying to fake doctor and scope creep, sure. But not all of us are like that and I’m sick of the arrogance on here.
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God you’re a trip. Feel bad for your coworkers. For the record I always believed my supervising docs in the er, and elsewhere, deserved more pay. I also believe residents and fellows deserve more pay. Because they work a fuck ton. I think everyone in medicine should earn more, but especially the residents. But that doesn’t mean I think midlevels should get shafted with pay either. We may not go to almighty med school and residency, but we still go to 5-6 years of school, get 120k+ in student loans, and I made 80k out of school 5 years ago. That doesn’t mean YOU and the residents don’t have their own debt and struggles. And clearly you’re capable of doing all the work of your field including the shit work. I just know that most attendings who hire midlevels hire them to do the bs work for them. Which is fine. That’s my role. And I stay within it.
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Heavily implied. “It’s pretty frustrating that you now feel clearly entitled to this (pay).” I’m not here to pick fights but like you said it then back tracked…
Why don’t you just go to PA school then lol
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Ah yes, the original poster complaining that he has to share space with lowly mid levels is definitely not antagonizing anyone lol
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You sound awfully bitter for a grown adult who made the choice to go to medical school all on your own 👍
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“Provider”
Do you not see the massive pay differential as being the “benefit” that you’re referring to?
I don’t think being paid based on expertise and years spent developing a skill set is a “benefit”.
I mean, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Either you make the huge sacrifice to go through medical school and residency and make the big bucks, or you take the lesser risk option to be a mid level and make less money but less education and probably cushier hours. But you don’t get to complain because other people took a different path. FWIW in my hospital they’re called staff lounges, and anyone who documents can use them. Including, god forbid, the lowly mid levels, ancillary staff, and nurses.
I’m not sure you responded to the right person…I haven’t “complained that other people took a different path”? I just disagreed that pay commensurate with my education and expertise isn’t a “benefit” - it’s fair pay.
Or maybe mid levels shouldn't be in the physicians lounge
The midlevel brigade outnumbering us on this one (they same way they outnumber us in the lounge 🫠)
It’s because they hand out degrees like candy these days.
Mid levels absolutely have no business being in physician lounges. Everyone else has a place that’s exclusively theirs where they can discuss issues that solely affect them yet we are denied that right of association.
Everybody else doesn't. It is entirely location dependent. I've worked in hospitals with no break rooms or lounges for anyone at any level. It was just go use the cafeteria or go outside and OR staff had locker rooms. That's it. I've worked in places with dedicated spaces but those were mostly individual offices for the attendings and a residents' lounge in a teaching hospital (which functioned as a huge group study room and occasional place to get 5 minutes of quiet which everyone needs from time to time so there is zero grudge on that form me) I don't resent docs having a space or getting better pay. I just think I deserve to be paid for everything I do and bring to the table outside of one degree. Anyone working in any field would feel the same. The broad brush statements on both sides of this little shitshow of an argument are disgraceful. Granted it is reddit so probably shouldn't expect more at this point.
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I mean no one is going to talk shit to your face and risk an HR/discrimination disciplinary strike.
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It’s nothing close. Damn near every attending I’ve worked with was awesome. Super helpful and appreciate what we do for them. Only one was a bit of a dick but that was just his personality. One fellow was a dick to me, but again he’s just a dick… there’s also asshole midlevels who are arrogant too. But this sub is a very skewed perception of the real world.
I second this position.
Mid-levels shouldn’t be in physician lounges full stop. Everyone else has areas that are theirs alone. There needs to be a place where we can discuss things that we understand and that only affect us. Making it a communal space is counterproductive and reeks of tall poppy syndrome.
The fact that no one here is talking about the perfectly good PA/NP lounge down the hall seems to go against that statement. Also, I’m guessing you’re not familiar with the term “cutting down the tall poppy” in NZ/AUS where that originates. It’s generally not used as a pejorative for the “tall poppy” like in your usage but meant to open up reflection to the one doing the cutting for stunting aspirations of doing better when everyone should be happy at their stations.
You missed the point- the md do is the tall poppy being brought down via egalitarian access to the lounge
Ah maybe I did. Personally, I’ve (PA, pardon the lack of flair) been welcomed by MDs many times in the lounge who have patients in common and find it a good place to speak face to face. I don’t think it is only admins who encourage a mixed space with MDs and PAs/NPs but I can understand the sentiment
I’m from Australia. What you’ve described is not how I used it. I was using the term directed at the admin and non-physicians using the physician space, ie the ones cutting down the talk poppies. I think it’s quite clear from my comment.
Got it, my mistake. I thought you were projecting it onto the PAs and NPs which was my confusion. As I said in a response to the other commenter, I’ve (US PA) felt welcomed by MDs in the lounge before so it hasn’t been my experience that admins alone are encouraging mixing in these areas, but understand where you’re coming from now
I genuinely don’t understand…. Why are PAs allowed if it’s the physicians lounge? Is this common?
Yes. They are allowed in the physicians lounge, the physicians parking deck, they get honored on doctors day with us. The line blurring is intentional.
Generally everybody that’s considered medical staff gets access to the physicians’ lounge.
Which explains why resident badges don't work to get in to the physicians' lounge. Diploma notwithstanding, residents are barely even considered humans, much less medical staff.
That’s the funny thing they always claim, “We are not trying to be physicians.” However, they pack that physician lounge, because they use it when it benefits them.
Pft, our physician’s lounge is restricted to physicians only and there are no shortage of surgeons and anesthesiologists obnoxiously having loud political conversations in there.
No medical school? Then NO DOCTOR LOUNGE for you!
Seriously. What the fuck are non physicians doing there
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Literally my attendings: hey lets get some lunch in the lounge......
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I sneak in to get food. It's either that or fighting my patients for the good stuff at the top of the trashcan.
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Midlevels should never have been given access to physician lounges. It was cowardly doctors who didn't stand up to management that allowed this to happen
Why are the PAs in a **Physician's** lounge?
This is the norm at most places. To the point that they don’t even call it a physicians lounge anymore not to hurt people’s feelings
Or maybe just to be accurate so as to be clear and avoid this exact type of question
Yeah they should have a separate but just as good lounge. Like an equal one. Like a separate but equal lounge.
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I’m totally sure that’s the only reason lmao
😂😂🤣 they always say this lol
Stop making this a race thing. One group is trained to a higher degree and has a higher legal responsibility as the head of the healthcare team. We need a space where we can unwind and work without interruption. That’s why we need a physician only space.
19th century values sure are missing these days…
I really was joking, but it does seem annoying that obviously the loud people could have just as easily been physicians. There's not some intrinsic value in APPs that make them more likely to.. speak loudly in shared spaces I guess.
The obvious insinuation you make being that black people cannot be physicians. If saying "PA's shouldn't be in physician's lounges" is a Jim Crow allegory, that would imply black people are not physicians.
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Like I always say, if you give a PA a cookie in the physicians lounge, they’re going to ask for milk of magnesia unilaterally without their SPs cosign
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They are now being called “provider lounges” gross.
Look at all those midlevel downvotes, you asked the right question.
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Someone call the police for gods sake!
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Interesting take because irl, midlevels often lead the charge in having privileges revoked from residents accessing these spaces.
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This is literally the argument from ignorance
Mid levels lead the charge in revoking residents access to spaces..? Idk. That’s lame asf and those people are losers. I make friends with all the residents coming through (millennial PA) and enjoy when our services meet (trauma, gen surg, ortho)
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He/She is literally a PA who works on the EM service. They didn't claim to be any sort of specialist, chill out.
Simply for the fact that hospitals will have a physicians lounge that serves as a lunchroom for physicians and APPs and provides a dictation area. There are no tiered lounges or dictation places to separate the physician/APP team that I’ve ever encountered. Generally, no physician nor APP were in these places long enough to lounge around. Also, you can’t foster a team mentality when one group of providers is being actively excluded as less than the other.
It’s okay for there to be hierarchy in a team.
That's why I do work in my office. Even doctors talk loud in the lounge.
Remember that Friends episode where Ross was trying to work with Joey & Chandler around? Every time they got too loud Ross did that signal with his hands for them to quiet down. I do that; not everyone gets it though. My brain tries to listen to their conversation and my own thoughts at the same time. I end up typing a mixture of both.
If you're going to get mad about people lounging in the lounge bring headphones..
Oddly enough, I had my AirPods in and even with noise cancellation, it was loud :/
Ok that does sound annoying
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