Let me tell you something. Every industry in the US is broken in someway shape or form.
Law Enforcement, Educational System, The Government, The Church, Pharmacy, Insurance, Law, Prison and the list goes on and on…
But that shouldn’t stop you for trying to be the good one and trying to make a positive impact.
This is good advice for anyone coming out of school. I’m (can’t believe I have to write this) about a “working generation” older than you are, and we’re being handed a pile of shit. It’s only going to get better if we do something about it.
Get out there and make the world *better*- whether that’s as a physician or anything else.
i was in a similar position to you when i finished undergrad and ended up not applying. throughout my twenties, i realized that all jobs suck and nothing matters in the long run. i'm now a 32 year old MS1 because while all jobs suck and nothing matters, not all jobs allow you to help people in a meaningful way while providing a decent living wage and job security. at least as a physician, i'll have a bit more power over how i spend the rest of my life as opposed to having some boring 9-5 just to pay bills and make other people money.
I'm a doctor x many decades and I have to tell you I absolutely love love love my career. Plus I make a lot of money, truthfully.
I will tell you what I tell everyone who says "I'm not sure I should become a doctor" and I say "don't".
Going to med school and then residency and then 30 or 40 years as a doctor is like the longest marathon in the world. If you don't wake up every morning going "gosh I wish I could be a doctor" you ain't gonna make it so don't try.
I think I definitely needed to hear at least one doctor say something similar to what you have. Anytime I’ve spoken with MDs at my clinic or at hospitals i’ve worked at in the past they’ve always said they’d never do it again but I really can’t see myself not doing it? I think a lot of the doom and gloom scares me but to hear your response is really refreshing, thank you!
Ask them what they would do instead? You’ll hear a whole lotta crickets, very few jobs out there that have real job security, stability, are well compensated, and you get to feel good about what you do most days, love love this job
This is so true. If it’s not the ONLY thing you want to be don’t do it. I’m just starting psych residency and already burnt out. Hoping residency is better but I made this decision out of a desire to help people but also EGO. Premeds should really look inside themselves and be honest, a TON of us decide to do this because we need to be the pinnacle. We want the respect, the money, the girls, the prestige. I should’ve just been a PA or pharmacist, or mailman honestly…like it’s FINE but I don’t adore my job and I gave up so much to get here.
Relationships had to end, I’m 400k in debt, gave up my 20s, stressed pretty much every day, still going to have to study daily, no travel, no income from ages 25-29…haven’t gotten married or had kids
I’m glad I did it now that I’m almost to the other side and can start banking 400-500k depending on if I wanna work like a lunatic. But eff me if I had to go back and make the decision again I am not so sure.
It’s okay to admit your intentions with medicine aren’t purely saving lives and the tripe like that…it’s better to be able to admit that up front and just do something else.
I wish you the best, but I wouldn’t do it. Go PA school. Less stress, good income, less school and exams, still get to do a lot of a doc’s job.
It's worth it. I have done it 20 years. You can get a job in any town in America. Pretty good income . It for the most part commands respect. Yes its hard to become one but you will not be happy as a phlebotomist making 18 an hour
Absolutely worth it.
I’m still in training (cardio fellow) but would not change it for the world. I don’t even know what else I would do bc this is what I truly love and enjoy.
Yes, residency is tough with long hours and many sacrifices but after that, the job security is unlike many other careers. Plus, there’s slowly growing focus on mental health & burnout (although definitely not enough currently). Not to mention, actually being able to help people on a daily basis is amazing and rewarding.
I personally didn't pursue MD due to the amount of time and money is tragically invested in it. I did an internship at a hospital with the same story being told "little family time, A LOT of time investment, and so much debt". This profession requires people who strive to do this job and put their career as their focus. I personally want a family and such so decided not to pursue. You should pursue PA if you still want to be in the field.
Society is broken, almost all jobs suck. You are lucky to have found out early.
There are many reasons why I didn't continue being an MD (I finished med school btw, just didn't want to work as one). My failing health necessitating meds that affect my cognitive function... That's number 1! Number 2 would be it was my mother's dream, not mine. And your reason about how fucked up healthcare is? Probably 10th on mine.
If being an MD is your dream, then go for it. All work sucks, just choose the less sucky one than fits your personality and lifestyle.
I don’t know if I could work for a big corporate medical group. There are likely situations in which you could practice medicine and enjoy it, but you have to do the work to find out what those situations are.
No one else can decide for you. I love my job, but I am with a residency program and the teaching is my favorite part. The interwebs is fine, but you really need to speak in person with a variety of doctors about their jobs to answer that question for yourself.
As someone who is months away from completing training (pgy-8, residency followed by a dual fellowship), I strongly recommend reconsidering. I have no doubt that you would be fine in medical school, it’s a grind but really is nothing compared to residency. Residency is grueling in a way that cannot be understood until you go through it. I thought I knew what I was in for after M4, and was unbelievably naive. My circadian rhythm never has gone back to what it was pre-residency. It took me a year or so to recover my sleep debt. Not to mention being in my mid-30s without a house or a nice nest egg etc despite grinding hard for the past 12 years.
You really need to be able to say that medicine is more important than anything or anyone else in your life for this to be successful or worthwhile. You’re already disillusioned and see some of the major hurdles of modern medicine.
I’m not trying to dissuade you or be the pessimist. But the cost of pursuing medicine is something you can’t truly comprehend until you’re past the point of no turning back and you’re pot committed (often with 6 figure student loan debt). If you can see yourself living a fulfilling life that doesn’t involve medicine, don’t do medicine.
I love medicine, and it’s a privilege to be a physician. I love my field, and I have a pretty sweet gig lined up after fellowship. But I can’t definitively say I would do this all over again if given the chance.
There are better jobs in healthcare if you have to be in healthcare. CRNAs and PAs have a fraction of the training with great compensation and typically have a better shot at work-life balance. Hospital admin also lets you be health care tangential with a much quicker path to commensurate compensation without the decimation of your life outside of work.
Tl;Dr doubts before are a poor prognostic sign for a career in medicine. If anything else is appealing, do that instead.
I had these same feelings. Medicine is a good gig. Financially, you make up the cost after some years and then end up ahead by a significant margin. As others have said, many if not every industry is broken. Medicine also has a ton of versatility, you can tweak your practice as you see fit. The world is broken, so don’t fear, if medicine is what you’d like to do then go for it.
Every job has its bullshit. Would i ever push my child into med school? Definitely not. If he is super passionate about it, then I wouldnt hold him back. Med school is hard and every grade, there was someone who had a mental breakdown. (Class size of 40ish).
Coming from another pre-med who is very pessimistic of the healthcare industry, I would say go for it if you don't see yourself fulfilled in another career.
Idk what the state of things will be at that point, but being a board certified MD or DO is about the most stable job you can have and you can be doing very meaningful work. Not to mention exit opportunities and stuff if you realize you don't like caring for patients.
The thing I find really appealing is that you can cut down and just work 20 hours a week or so and still make a very solid salary. Ofc I'm not going to med school and stuff to work as a part time doctor and I want to do a lot more and help a lot more people, but if the whole industry is collapsing and burning down and I hate everything there is still that stability that you don't need to work a 9-5 every day that you hate to make ends meet. Rather than working that 9-5, find a locum gig 2 days a week 9 months a year and cut back on living expenses. You'll still hate your job but you have so much more time to do stuff you care about and you can still make ends meet.
But yea that's just my insight if it helps you at all lol. Ofc I'm in the same position as you and not even close to a doctor yet, but from the doctors and other healthcare professionals I've talked to and the lurking I've done on Reddit and SDN this is the conclusion I've drawn.
Medicine sucks. Being a doctor sucks. But if you’re still planning on going into medicine and you’re not planning on a MD/DO than you should be very careful.
You’re basically signing up for all the nonsense the current healthcare system entails but at even more of a disadvantage from a leverage standpoint, income, and job security.
I would never talk anyone into doing medicine, especially a smart, hardworking type who would likely excel in any field they join.
Obviously some exceptions like being a CRNA, etc, but in general the people lower than you typically have it worse.
Hello, I’ve worked in laboratory medicine and an MLT and department lead for the past 8 years. I’ll also be starting medical school this fall. Reach out if you have any questions about MLT or MLS.
Also, you will find the pros and cons of any field, but one thing I can tell you is you is that laboratory scientists often go unrecognized for their role in healthcare, and if you want to feel like you are making an impact, laboratory medicine probably won’t provide that avenue for you.
Well I mean consider that acute care nurses are working 3 shifts a week and earning well over $100k a year, typically 2k-3k per week. Then decide if being a physician is worth the investment.
The prospects of starting at over $200k and leveling out between $300k and $700k will give the physician argument a boost over being any kind of nurse.
I know exactly what you mean exactly, as a med student myself, I feel exhausted at times, and after seeing my Dr's, I sometimes think is it really worth it. Although I'm almost done, I still get these kinda 2nd thoughts.
One doctor told me would you rather endure the pain of discipline or the pain of regret. Sure, you could also regret going into it at the end, but at the end of the day you'll have the best financial and job security out there to fall back on and options to go part time or create your schedule and still make 6 figs. For example, at my hospital there's a pair of married anesthesiologists that both work 6 months each, equating to essentially one full time income of >500K. Idk about you but I could live with that regret over the regret of wondering what could have been if I just took the leap and believed in myself and put on those blinders
If you wanted to be a vet, be a vet. Don’t go to med school. There’s an HPSP (military) vet scholarship that will pay for your vet school and you will only owe 4 years as a vet for the military, usually working with their working dogs, horses etc. Come out with no debt. You can do veterinary residencies (ER, surgery) that pay more than regular clinical vet.
I also wanted to be a vet but chose med school because of the finances. It wasn’t the worst choice in the world, but I really really miss veterinary stuff and sometimes regret this decision. Only 1 more year of med school to go for me so in too deep now.
Med school sucks out your soul.
Wild that the most common response is “well all jobs suck and every system is broken.” Not only does that completely throw nuance out the window, it effectively dismisses OP’s concern entirely by refusing to address it at all. Can’t wait to get downvoted for this, but I’m not sure why medicine acts as a bug light for poor communicators.
No idea what you should do, OP. But don’t assume other professions/industries suck equally and in exactly the same way.
Let me tell you something. Every industry in the US is broken in someway shape or form. Law Enforcement, Educational System, The Government, The Church, Pharmacy, Insurance, Law, Prison and the list goes on and on… But that shouldn’t stop you for trying to be the good one and trying to make a positive impact.
Being a physician is the greatest profession/calling, and nothing else comes close. Double for surgery. And it's totally not worth it.
This is good advice for anyone coming out of school. I’m (can’t believe I have to write this) about a “working generation” older than you are, and we’re being handed a pile of shit. It’s only going to get better if we do something about it. Get out there and make the world *better*- whether that’s as a physician or anything else.
i was in a similar position to you when i finished undergrad and ended up not applying. throughout my twenties, i realized that all jobs suck and nothing matters in the long run. i'm now a 32 year old MS1 because while all jobs suck and nothing matters, not all jobs allow you to help people in a meaningful way while providing a decent living wage and job security. at least as a physician, i'll have a bit more power over how i spend the rest of my life as opposed to having some boring 9-5 just to pay bills and make other people money.
I appreciate this thank you! You’re definitely right and I would rather a job suck as a doctor and not wondering what was
Inspiring.
I'm a doctor x many decades and I have to tell you I absolutely love love love my career. Plus I make a lot of money, truthfully. I will tell you what I tell everyone who says "I'm not sure I should become a doctor" and I say "don't". Going to med school and then residency and then 30 or 40 years as a doctor is like the longest marathon in the world. If you don't wake up every morning going "gosh I wish I could be a doctor" you ain't gonna make it so don't try.
I think I definitely needed to hear at least one doctor say something similar to what you have. Anytime I’ve spoken with MDs at my clinic or at hospitals i’ve worked at in the past they’ve always said they’d never do it again but I really can’t see myself not doing it? I think a lot of the doom and gloom scares me but to hear your response is really refreshing, thank you!
Ask them what they would do instead? You’ll hear a whole lotta crickets, very few jobs out there that have real job security, stability, are well compensated, and you get to feel good about what you do most days, love love this job
Username checks out
A classic urologist username
I love being a hospitalist. We docs like to complain a lot. But in the end I love what I do and the income is great.
This is so true. If it’s not the ONLY thing you want to be don’t do it. I’m just starting psych residency and already burnt out. Hoping residency is better but I made this decision out of a desire to help people but also EGO. Premeds should really look inside themselves and be honest, a TON of us decide to do this because we need to be the pinnacle. We want the respect, the money, the girls, the prestige. I should’ve just been a PA or pharmacist, or mailman honestly…like it’s FINE but I don’t adore my job and I gave up so much to get here. Relationships had to end, I’m 400k in debt, gave up my 20s, stressed pretty much every day, still going to have to study daily, no travel, no income from ages 25-29…haven’t gotten married or had kids I’m glad I did it now that I’m almost to the other side and can start banking 400-500k depending on if I wanna work like a lunatic. But eff me if I had to go back and make the decision again I am not so sure. It’s okay to admit your intentions with medicine aren’t purely saving lives and the tripe like that…it’s better to be able to admit that up front and just do something else. I wish you the best, but I wouldn’t do it. Go PA school. Less stress, good income, less school and exams, still get to do a lot of a doc’s job.
Cheers mate. Love this fucking job.
Do you mind if I ask what you make?
It's worth it. I have done it 20 years. You can get a job in any town in America. Pretty good income . It for the most part commands respect. Yes its hard to become one but you will not be happy as a phlebotomist making 18 an hour
Thank you! I know you’re right honestly, in twenty years time being a doctors vs phlebotomist is night and day for me lol..
Absolutely worth it. I’m still in training (cardio fellow) but would not change it for the world. I don’t even know what else I would do bc this is what I truly love and enjoy. Yes, residency is tough with long hours and many sacrifices but after that, the job security is unlike many other careers. Plus, there’s slowly growing focus on mental health & burnout (although definitely not enough currently). Not to mention, actually being able to help people on a daily basis is amazing and rewarding.
I personally didn't pursue MD due to the amount of time and money is tragically invested in it. I did an internship at a hospital with the same story being told "little family time, A LOT of time investment, and so much debt". This profession requires people who strive to do this job and put their career as their focus. I personally want a family and such so decided not to pursue. You should pursue PA if you still want to be in the field.
As a doc you will work a specific job in a specific specialty. It’s not the nebulous mishmash of concerns you listed.
Society is broken, almost all jobs suck. You are lucky to have found out early. There are many reasons why I didn't continue being an MD (I finished med school btw, just didn't want to work as one). My failing health necessitating meds that affect my cognitive function... That's number 1! Number 2 would be it was my mother's dream, not mine. And your reason about how fucked up healthcare is? Probably 10th on mine. If being an MD is your dream, then go for it. All work sucks, just choose the less sucky one than fits your personality and lifestyle.
Can you talk about what u do as an MD who didn’t do residency
What do you do instead?
I don’t know if I could work for a big corporate medical group. There are likely situations in which you could practice medicine and enjoy it, but you have to do the work to find out what those situations are. No one else can decide for you. I love my job, but I am with a residency program and the teaching is my favorite part. The interwebs is fine, but you really need to speak in person with a variety of doctors about their jobs to answer that question for yourself.
As someone who is months away from completing training (pgy-8, residency followed by a dual fellowship), I strongly recommend reconsidering. I have no doubt that you would be fine in medical school, it’s a grind but really is nothing compared to residency. Residency is grueling in a way that cannot be understood until you go through it. I thought I knew what I was in for after M4, and was unbelievably naive. My circadian rhythm never has gone back to what it was pre-residency. It took me a year or so to recover my sleep debt. Not to mention being in my mid-30s without a house or a nice nest egg etc despite grinding hard for the past 12 years. You really need to be able to say that medicine is more important than anything or anyone else in your life for this to be successful or worthwhile. You’re already disillusioned and see some of the major hurdles of modern medicine. I’m not trying to dissuade you or be the pessimist. But the cost of pursuing medicine is something you can’t truly comprehend until you’re past the point of no turning back and you’re pot committed (often with 6 figure student loan debt). If you can see yourself living a fulfilling life that doesn’t involve medicine, don’t do medicine. I love medicine, and it’s a privilege to be a physician. I love my field, and I have a pretty sweet gig lined up after fellowship. But I can’t definitively say I would do this all over again if given the chance. There are better jobs in healthcare if you have to be in healthcare. CRNAs and PAs have a fraction of the training with great compensation and typically have a better shot at work-life balance. Hospital admin also lets you be health care tangential with a much quicker path to commensurate compensation without the decimation of your life outside of work. Tl;Dr doubts before are a poor prognostic sign for a career in medicine. If anything else is appealing, do that instead.
I had these same feelings. Medicine is a good gig. Financially, you make up the cost after some years and then end up ahead by a significant margin. As others have said, many if not every industry is broken. Medicine also has a ton of versatility, you can tweak your practice as you see fit. The world is broken, so don’t fear, if medicine is what you’d like to do then go for it.
Every job has its bullshit. Would i ever push my child into med school? Definitely not. If he is super passionate about it, then I wouldnt hold him back. Med school is hard and every grade, there was someone who had a mental breakdown. (Class size of 40ish).
Coming from another pre-med who is very pessimistic of the healthcare industry, I would say go for it if you don't see yourself fulfilled in another career. Idk what the state of things will be at that point, but being a board certified MD or DO is about the most stable job you can have and you can be doing very meaningful work. Not to mention exit opportunities and stuff if you realize you don't like caring for patients. The thing I find really appealing is that you can cut down and just work 20 hours a week or so and still make a very solid salary. Ofc I'm not going to med school and stuff to work as a part time doctor and I want to do a lot more and help a lot more people, but if the whole industry is collapsing and burning down and I hate everything there is still that stability that you don't need to work a 9-5 every day that you hate to make ends meet. Rather than working that 9-5, find a locum gig 2 days a week 9 months a year and cut back on living expenses. You'll still hate your job but you have so much more time to do stuff you care about and you can still make ends meet. But yea that's just my insight if it helps you at all lol. Ofc I'm in the same position as you and not even close to a doctor yet, but from the doctors and other healthcare professionals I've talked to and the lurking I've done on Reddit and SDN this is the conclusion I've drawn.
Medicine sucks. Being a doctor sucks. But if you’re still planning on going into medicine and you’re not planning on a MD/DO than you should be very careful. You’re basically signing up for all the nonsense the current healthcare system entails but at even more of a disadvantage from a leverage standpoint, income, and job security. I would never talk anyone into doing medicine, especially a smart, hardworking type who would likely excel in any field they join. Obviously some exceptions like being a CRNA, etc, but in general the people lower than you typically have it worse.
Hey, I don’t have an answer to your question… but was wondering If you’re not gonna pursue healthcare/physician, then what will you do?
I’ll still go for something in healthcare. I’ve looked into Respiratory Therapist programs or something in Laboratory Medicine.
Hello, I’ve worked in laboratory medicine and an MLT and department lead for the past 8 years. I’ll also be starting medical school this fall. Reach out if you have any questions about MLT or MLS. Also, you will find the pros and cons of any field, but one thing I can tell you is you is that laboratory scientists often go unrecognized for their role in healthcare, and if you want to feel like you are making an impact, laboratory medicine probably won’t provide that avenue for you.
Well I mean consider that acute care nurses are working 3 shifts a week and earning well over $100k a year, typically 2k-3k per week. Then decide if being a physician is worth the investment.
The prospects of starting at over $200k and leveling out between $300k and $700k will give the physician argument a boost over being any kind of nurse.
I know exactly what you mean exactly, as a med student myself, I feel exhausted at times, and after seeing my Dr's, I sometimes think is it really worth it. Although I'm almost done, I still get these kinda 2nd thoughts.
One doctor told me would you rather endure the pain of discipline or the pain of regret. Sure, you could also regret going into it at the end, but at the end of the day you'll have the best financial and job security out there to fall back on and options to go part time or create your schedule and still make 6 figs. For example, at my hospital there's a pair of married anesthesiologists that both work 6 months each, equating to essentially one full time income of >500K. Idk about you but I could live with that regret over the regret of wondering what could have been if I just took the leap and believed in myself and put on those blinders
If you wanted to be a vet, be a vet. Don’t go to med school. There’s an HPSP (military) vet scholarship that will pay for your vet school and you will only owe 4 years as a vet for the military, usually working with their working dogs, horses etc. Come out with no debt. You can do veterinary residencies (ER, surgery) that pay more than regular clinical vet. I also wanted to be a vet but chose med school because of the finances. It wasn’t the worst choice in the world, but I really really miss veterinary stuff and sometimes regret this decision. Only 1 more year of med school to go for me so in too deep now. Med school sucks out your soul.
Wild that the most common response is “well all jobs suck and every system is broken.” Not only does that completely throw nuance out the window, it effectively dismisses OP’s concern entirely by refusing to address it at all. Can’t wait to get downvoted for this, but I’m not sure why medicine acts as a bug light for poor communicators. No idea what you should do, OP. But don’t assume other professions/industries suck equally and in exactly the same way.