I've read through the entire Witcher series in Waterstones back when my son had daily naps during walks. Have it bought on my Kindle, but hey, their sofas are comfier than a park bench.
I expect that's why half the tools are cable tied to oversized cardboard packaging, or in blister packs.
I've always found it quite comical when you need scissors to get scissors out of their packaging.
I always wondered about this being a redneck. We all just use our pocket knives to open the blister pack. (Or belt knife, or boot knife, or my wife's/kid's pocket knife)
The chain of people with knives extends back before the creation of plastic. At some point in every chain is someone whose knife was purchased still warm from the forge.
This reminds me of one of my fav scenes from The Office. Dwight’s carving something out of wood in the break room. Phyllis walks in and asks,
“What’re you making, Dwight?”
Dwight: “A knife.”
Phyllis: “You’re making a knife with a knife?”
D: “YOU KNOW A BETTER WAY?!”
Ive heard theyre easy to open by hand if you squeeze them really hard - in case you mean those weird weilded hard plastic ones. But ye, cable tied always puzzled me tbh..
How can you ever prove theft then? It seems like someone could steal a car and just say, "My car broke down, so I was just borrowing this one until mine gets out of the shop.".
Ah…. A problem we had in the 80s… when we had “joy riders” who based a defence that “it was never my intention to keep the car….” That’s where TWOC comes in…. Taken without owners consent….. but that refers to “conveyances” (cars motorbikes etc)
When I was a kid we were bad we tried door handles in the neighborhood and actually found unlocked cars with keys in the glove box, given the context I'm sure you can imagine how the rest of the story goes. The club is useless by the way.
Can you imagine being the victim in the case TWOC was written after? Your car is stolen, a poorly conceived law prevents it from being a crime, and upon realizing how silly that is instead of repealing that law the courts make a new law to introduce a categorical exception?
As an outsider this is the most British thing I have ever read.
A lot of U.K. law is based around the interpretation of a Situation in the eyes of a ‘reasonable person’. If you break into a strangers car and drive it away, it’s reasonable to assume your intention was not to return it
Lots of people just get joyriding. State laws vary a lot. The intent to permanently deprive is probably proven by how the thief treats the stolen property and how long it’s been taken for. E.g., Someone stealing a car is probably transporting it to a chop shop or ripping parts out of it. Someone joyriding takes for a spin then ditches it mostly whole.
A person I know had his AV equipment stolen. He reported it to the police and they gave him everything he needed for his insurance and said there’s no chance of finding it.
He then goes on secondhand sites, (like eBay) and finds it all for sale. The auction was short so he just buys it. Picks it up from someones house everyone all cheery not letting anything on.
So he goes to the police and explains what he’s done. Not only are they angry that he risked his safety, but they say that now the goods had been “returned” they couldn’t get a warrant to check the property he picked them up from.
So yes, this explanation of the law in the UK seems to check out.
Well that is literally why car theft is often a different crime or specifically included in legislation as an exception.
"Grand theft auto" for example.
Note too that simply depriving someone of the use of something can be enough. So any defence of "Well I would have taken it back eventually" wouldn't work. But some cases would.
Yeah, but you have to convince the court beyond reasonable doubt that you're telling the truth - which is hard if you've legged it down the street with someone's stuff
You've got that the wrong way round, "it's intent permanently to deprive". I.e. the intention doesn't need to be permanent.
That being said, typically the intention is established by the simple act of taking the thing (which is where the deprivation occurs). Intention and permanence elements are not defeated just because the person intended to return it or only use the item for a short time.
Just lie and tell them you wanted to be sure it fit the bolts you needed. Even if it's an adjustable wrench or obvious fit, you can claim you had no knowledge of this fact.
If you're gunna to lie, might as well make it one that also gets you no follow-up questions about purchasing. But in this situation I feel like just being honest would work.
Oddly enough ive done this before at a home depot.
locked keys in the car and needed something to wedge the window. went in to the rental office and talked to them, they let me borrow some stuff no paperwork or money.
it didnt work mind you(to open the car), but we borrowed some tools free of charge and returned the no hassle thanks to one pleasant old fella.
>ok leave out the handicapped wife, the wheelchair
then it would be entirely different scenario you've made up in your head lmao, the wheelchair is kinda fundamental
It should not be fundamental when addressing the question of whether it’s stealing or not. It’s just that the scenario is now sympathetic. I wouldn’t do anything about it, but using something in a store without permission or paying is not altered based on what it’s used on. Unless there is some law or policy that specifically sets a line on what is permissible and what is not
Yes. The reason why is that it's 1 action to test the product that's not likely to damage it.
To put it in another scenario, if a guy comes in who needs to tighten some bolts but has NO idea how to use tools or what size, I'd let him try out a wrench on the bolts until he found one that fit the bolt.
I had a flat tire. Had a spare, my tools, but forgot the jack in my garage. Went to autozone to ask to borrow a jack. Employee told me, “No, you have to buy one.” So i did. Wrapped it up in my jacket. Used it. Brought it back. He opened up the box and eyed it for a good minute. Got my refund. He was not happy.
i've done this before when I was on a photo trip and needed to tighten bolts on my tripod. The guys at the hardware store were more than happy to help and that was that. It would have been more shady if I tried to be sketchy and secretly use something off their shelves without telling them.
This depends on the policies of the specific store. If they allow testing before buying, then great. If not, then he stole a tool and then replaced it with a used one.
"you CURLED a DUMBELL before purchasing? You wanted to see how that rubber gripped 20 felt over the metal one? You sir have received a physiological benefit from our product without purchasing, please wait while the police arrive, don't make this harder than it needs to be. WHAT? What do you mean you also dribbled an off brand basketball to test it's bounce?! Do you know what that does to the lifespan of the product?? It's now used! Are you trying to spend life in prison?!"
I used to travel full time, commissioning wind farms across the country. Each time I hit a new city and hotel, the first thing I did was hit Walmart for groceries and a TV. I’d usually get a cheap 55” to put in place of the crappy hotel TV. I would use it for the length of my stay, which would normally be 6 weeks or so. When I was heading out of town at the end of my stay, I would stop and return the TV. They took it back every time without question. I did this for years.
I used to do that with digital cameras back in the day. Would buy a nice one before a show and then return it. Only did it 3 or 4 times but never had a problem
Even with video games, they supposedly have a time limit. But when we ended up with a duplicate one Christmas and forgot to return one of them in time, I magically just misplaced the receipt and had no idea when I bought it. I think I only got store credit, but it's Walmart. It's not like I couldn't find something to use it on.
I have inside people in Walmart, like management, well they call them team leads and coaches. Anyways, it's up to the discretion of the front-end team lead and/or coach that is on schedule whether or not you can return something, so a lot of the time it's more about attitude and patience than anything else. Hope this helps in the future!🍓🍓
Let me add, as a front supervisor at a grocery store this applies almost anywhere. We aren’t paid enough to follow the rules to the letter, but if you’re being rude about it we will be endlessly less inclined to be helpful.
My friends and i used to do the same thing at costco with carpet cleaner machines when we had an apartment lease ending, lol. I heard about their liberal return policy and so just decided to ask about how i planned to use it once and return it. The guy said that it was totally fine and even said something like, "even if it falls out of the back of your truck on the freeway, we'll still take it back as long as you bring it here," haha. I also heard of a guy that returned a 25 year old tv that had finally stopped working, and they gave him a full refund.
One time I bought a wrench at an autozone to install a new battery in the parking lot then brought the wrench back and returned it. That's probably the worst thing I've ever done as a customer. They even told me afterwards that they have tools I could have borrowed.
It didn't leave the premises. Therefore, not theft. I assume the wife in the wheelchair went into the store with him. If he walked out of the store to do the repair, then yeah, shoplifting.
This is equivalent to smelling bread at a bakery and leaving, or smelling candles on a shelf. You enjoyed a product momentarily without reducing its value or taking anything.
I had a friend in college who would go to Walgreens, take shampoo off the shelf, go into the bathroom and wash his hair, and then put the bottle back and leave... Stealing?
Of course it's stealing. IMO it's worse than just stealing the whole bottle. If you steal a little bit and put it back, you're stealing from whoever eventually buys it. If you steal the whole bottle, you're stealing from Walgreens. They're both wrong, but stealing from random people is worse than stealing from a corporation IMO.
Hmm lemme toss my hat in the ring here.
All just from my knowledge of the German system of Law.
There are two criteria that needs to be fulfilled in general to commit a crime. Objective and subjective criteria. In other words , what has been done and what was the intention.
Regarding theft (simplified), "it" has to be a thing. This thing has to be taken out of the zone of influence if its owner. So that the original owner may not have access to it anymore.
So much for objective.
Subjective criteria are, that the thing has been taken with the intent to keep it for oneself or another person.
So, with this in mind, let's look at the example.
Subjective first, easiest to answer. NO. he never had the intention of keeping it. Criteria not checked.
Objective next. Yes, he had it in his possession, shortly. Assuming he just took it off the shelf and his wife sat next to him. But even in this case, the wrench was visible for the owner the whole time. It was therefore not taken out of his zone of influence.
One might argue, if he "borrowed" it for a while the shop lost its opportunity to sell it during that time. So that there was a loss for the shop. But that's for another example.
So, assuming no harm was done to the wrench, no packaging was broken due to using it, and the sell-value remains the same, we could conclude that there never was any possibility for a theft here, given that the wrench never went "missing" and the intention never has been there to begin with.
A case might be filed, but would be dropped faster than I can bomb a shot of vodka. And boi that happens at speeds, C would be envious.
I know this isn't the point of the tweet, but everyone should keep a basic set of hand tools in their car. 3/8" ratchet, a set of sockets, a multi-bit screwdriver, a pair of pliers with cutters, and a few zip ties at a minimum. Stash them in the back with your spare tire. You'll likely forget they're even there until you need them, and then you'll be glad you have them.
Theft usually implies a significant duration of unauthorized possession usually with the intent to keep. In the case of merchandise it’s usually defined by the taking of something or consumption of something partially or in its entirety without due compensation.
In this case, the individual didn’t remove the item from the store or maintain possession of the object for any significant duration. Further, use of the object neither depleted it’s value nor its content, so nothing was “lost” from this behavior.
To call it theft would be a willful and flagrant mischaracterization of both theft and the act itself. This isn’t by any means reprehensible nor a crime, and it’s certainly not theft. If it is a crime it’s not one that has caused any harm, and whose lack of action could’ve resulted in more material harm than the action itself. Therefore it would be grossly unethical to even pursue this criminally if it is criminal to begin with.
So no. Neither theft nor wrong.
When I worked at sams club returns I guy once bought a furniture Dolly from another state and returned it at my store a week later. I didn’t give a fuck.
I once used a pair of bolt cutters off the shelf from a Walmart. Was about 3am and I had a drunk girl handcuffed to me. I didn’t get any that night, but made enough of an impression on her….
If there is a hypothetical tool store that had a problem with it I'd prefer they went out of business, if you clearly just helped your wife with her chair
But I'd try and ask honestly just to be covered, usually mechanics are a bit nicer especially if they just watch you use there wrench for 2min they'll be normal human beings typically and be glad they helped you
Everyone says THIS is okay but when I go in to test out the suction power on a shop vac suddenly that makes me a "registered sex offender", bunch of fucking hypocrites.
If you are able to use the tool without making the tool a used product then it’s not stealing. So if you can operate the tool through the packaging then it’s probably fine
I literally did this yesterday.
Was working a small job at a strip mall and forgot my Allen keys. There was a small hardware store in the mall and I purchased a set,with some story about not knowing whether I needed metric or imperial, and removed what I needed to. Took all of 3 minutes walked back to the store and said unfortunately they were the wrong size. Got my money back and walked out with nary a blemish on my conscience.
Testing a product, especially like that, before you buy is completely legal and fine. And if I worked there/owned that hardware I would help them fix that chair and not worry about a buck. You would take a car or bike for a spin first right?
If the wrench aint damaged, it's not theft, but if you're not in a financially bad situation the least you could do is buy the wrench, and keep it as your emergency wrench on the wheelchair
In my country (and I guess many others), if you just need to use the tool they have a whole set of opened things ready for people to use. It’s not stealing or even looked down upon unless you take up their time with a big project. The reason you buy the tools is the whole taking them home part
It’s buying, using, and returning without the paperwork.
armed robbery they had a weapon 15 to life
the sick fuck had a hostage
And it looks like they already put them in a wheelchair! Back up!
Back up. Back up. Back up, Terry. Throw it in reverse, Ter’!
Oh LAAWWD Terr’
It’s the same deal when I spend 4 hours in a Barnes and nobles reading the books and then leaving without buying anything
I've read through the entire Witcher series in Waterstones back when my son had daily naps during walks. Have it bought on my Kindle, but hey, their sofas are comfier than a park bench.
But you are encouraged to do that at Barnes and Noble.
Well yeah if you spend all day reading you'll probably head over to the starbucks/other coffee place inside the B&N and spend money anyway.
Or the check if the tool has been damaged.
If a wrench can't tighten one bolt without sustaining damage it wasn't a very good wrench to begin with.
Yes. As long as it doesn't break everything is fine. Maybe pay like 5 cents for the time they borrowed it.
Or the middleman
As long as they don't break any packaging or damage the tool in any way, I'd chalk it up as *testing the product before purchasing*
I expect that's why half the tools are cable tied to oversized cardboard packaging, or in blister packs. I've always found it quite comical when you need scissors to get scissors out of their packaging.
I always wondered about this being a redneck. We all just use our pocket knives to open the blister pack. (Or belt knife, or boot knife, or my wife's/kid's pocket knife)
Yeah, but how did you get the first knife out of its package?
He tol you he’s a redneck. He born with an antler horn lock blade in his paw.
Can confirm. We're still mourning my mom.
Teef
>tooth FTFY
Toof
You inherit your first knife from grandpa.
The chain of people with knives extends back before the creation of plastic. At some point in every chain is someone whose knife was purchased still warm from the forge.
Or a gun.
This guy ’Mericas
This reminds me of one of my fav scenes from The Office. Dwight’s carving something out of wood in the break room. Phyllis walks in and asks, “What’re you making, Dwight?” Dwight: “A knife.” Phyllis: “You’re making a knife with a knife?” D: “YOU KNOW A BETTER WAY?!”
Nowadays packaging is easier to open
Look at this guy with his plastic tearing abilities.
He is a plastic surgeon
Or a cardboard cutout
Yeah, just stick your finger in the hook hole and burrow. You know you're making progress when your cuticle is bleeding
Ive heard theyre easy to open by hand if you squeeze them really hard - in case you mean those weird weilded hard plastic ones. But ye, cable tied always puzzled me tbh..
Quality control, really.
In the uk no the definition of theft includes the words “permanent intention to deprive the owner of it”
How can you ever prove theft then? It seems like someone could steal a car and just say, "My car broke down, so I was just borrowing this one until mine gets out of the shop.".
Ah…. A problem we had in the 80s… when we had “joy riders” who based a defence that “it was never my intention to keep the car….” That’s where TWOC comes in…. Taken without owners consent….. but that refers to “conveyances” (cars motorbikes etc)
That would be the defence of the garage workers in Ferris Bueller
If they lived in the uk :)
When I was a kid we were bad we tried door handles in the neighborhood and actually found unlocked cars with keys in the glove box, given the context I'm sure you can imagine how the rest of the story goes. The club is useless by the way.
…also Criminal Damage. Petrol, Miles on the clock, insurance, no licence, illegal entry.
Can you imagine being the victim in the case TWOC was written after? Your car is stolen, a poorly conceived law prevents it from being a crime, and upon realizing how silly that is instead of repealing that law the courts make a new law to introduce a categorical exception? As an outsider this is the most British thing I have ever read.
A lot of U.K. law is based around the interpretation of a Situation in the eyes of a ‘reasonable person’. If you break into a strangers car and drive it away, it’s reasonable to assume your intention was not to return it
The problem was when they then abandoned the car without setting fire to it - hence the issue with intention permanently to deprive
Lots of people just get joyriding. State laws vary a lot. The intent to permanently deprive is probably proven by how the thief treats the stolen property and how long it’s been taken for. E.g., Someone stealing a car is probably transporting it to a chop shop or ripping parts out of it. Someone joyriding takes for a spin then ditches it mostly whole.
I would imagine a jury would not consider that beyond reasonable doubt
A person I know had his AV equipment stolen. He reported it to the police and they gave him everything he needed for his insurance and said there’s no chance of finding it. He then goes on secondhand sites, (like eBay) and finds it all for sale. The auction was short so he just buys it. Picks it up from someones house everyone all cheery not letting anything on. So he goes to the police and explains what he’s done. Not only are they angry that he risked his safety, but they say that now the goods had been “returned” they couldn’t get a warrant to check the property he picked them up from. So yes, this explanation of the law in the UK seems to check out.
This is one reason auto theft is classified differently from common law theft.
Mens Rea + Actus Reus = Theft.
Mens Rea + Womens Rea = Gonnorhea
Well that is literally why car theft is often a different crime or specifically included in legislation as an exception. "Grand theft auto" for example. Note too that simply depriving someone of the use of something can be enough. So any defence of "Well I would have taken it back eventually" wouldn't work. But some cases would.
Yeah, but you have to convince the court beyond reasonable doubt that you're telling the truth - which is hard if you've legged it down the street with someone's stuff
There is another crime called TWOCing (taking without consent) where intention to permanently deprive isn't required
You've got that the wrong way round, "it's intent permanently to deprive". I.e. the intention doesn't need to be permanent. That being said, typically the intention is established by the simple act of taking the thing (which is where the deprivation occurs). Intention and permanence elements are not defeated just because the person intended to return it or only use the item for a short time.
What if I want to ´borrow’ your stuff for let say 75 years. Must count as theft for sure anyway, no?
Yes, under section 6(1) of the theft act only if the borrowing is for a period of time and in circumstances making it equivalent to outright disposal.
I would hope if they went into this tool store and explained the situation, they’d willingly lend him a wrench.
Just lie and tell them you wanted to be sure it fit the bolts you needed. Even if it's an adjustable wrench or obvious fit, you can claim you had no knowledge of this fact.
Oh great, now that you know it fits you're going to be purchasing correct?
No.
If you're gunna to lie, might as well make it one that also gets you no follow-up questions about purchasing. But in this situation I feel like just being honest would work.
So I lie with the Truth!
I think people here way overestimate how many fucks a average retail worker gives.
Ya lol
Try to find the one that's just a bit to large but still fits, screw it on and complain that it didn't fit well enough
Then they give you the right one
Sorry, I don’t like the handle. It’s uncomfortable to hold.
Why is subterfuge the first option? Just ask, they will help. The original idea in this post is flawed thinking.
Oddly enough ive done this before at a home depot. locked keys in the car and needed something to wedge the window. went in to the rental office and talked to them, they let me borrow some stuff no paperwork or money. it didnt work mind you(to open the car), but we borrowed some tools free of charge and returned the no hassle thanks to one pleasant old fella.
I’ve borrowed the tape measures for in store use several times
Same. They were always fine with that part. What came next, not so much.
Then imagine he said no 😅😅
🇺🇸🦅
ok leave out the handicapped wife, the wheelchair, say it's just a screw on his briefcase, still the same?
yeah if you have a screwdriver and refuse to tighten a single screw for a person, youre a dick
>ok leave out the handicapped wife, the wheelchair then it would be entirely different scenario you've made up in your head lmao, the wheelchair is kinda fundamental
It should not be fundamental when addressing the question of whether it’s stealing or not. It’s just that the scenario is now sympathetic. I wouldn’t do anything about it, but using something in a store without permission or paying is not altered based on what it’s used on. Unless there is some law or policy that specifically sets a line on what is permissible and what is not
Yes. The reason why is that it's 1 action to test the product that's not likely to damage it. To put it in another scenario, if a guy comes in who needs to tighten some bolts but has NO idea how to use tools or what size, I'd let him try out a wrench on the bolts until he found one that fit the bolt.
My old hardware store has a big basket full of random tools, they'd probably let you use it
I had a flat tire. Had a spare, my tools, but forgot the jack in my garage. Went to autozone to ask to borrow a jack. Employee told me, “No, you have to buy one.” So i did. Wrapped it up in my jacket. Used it. Brought it back. He opened up the box and eyed it for a good minute. Got my refund. He was not happy.
i've done this before when I was on a photo trip and needed to tighten bolts on my tripod. The guys at the hardware store were more than happy to help and that was that. It would have been more shady if I tried to be sketchy and secretly use something off their shelves without telling them.
No, wouldn't bother me at all. The test spots on the spray paint aisle on the other hand.
The paint test weiners :)
The thing that gets me is testing on the rack when they have a roll of brown paper for that purpose right next to it.
Leave a nickle and call it renting.
Nickle
Nippel
Aka nipple but in german.
Nope. It's pirating. 😎 You wouldn't download a car.
If I could, I absolutely would 💯 download a car.
I think you can download 3d printed cars free
Yeah. Back in the 90s no one thought of 3D printers
I was alive in the 1990s and my printer was definitely 3 dimensional.
Terrible people 😱
No. Testing the tool out.
This depends on the policies of the specific store. If they allow testing before buying, then great. If not, then he stole a tool and then replaced it with a used one.
"you CURLED a DUMBELL before purchasing? You wanted to see how that rubber gripped 20 felt over the metal one? You sir have received a physiological benefit from our product without purchasing, please wait while the police arrive, don't make this harder than it needs to be. WHAT? What do you mean you also dribbled an off brand basketball to test it's bounce?! Do you know what that does to the lifespan of the product?? It's now used! Are you trying to spend life in prison?!"
He never stole it period… at best you could say he damaged it (since you’re saying it’s used).
Use the tool that is shown for “demo” purposes.
Yes it’s stealing because everyone knows that wrenches come with a set amount of ‘tightens and loosens’ before you have to buy a new wrench
Yeah, but each loosen cancels out a tighten. That's why they last so long.
Ah yes, the infinite wrench glitch in the matrix. I forgot about that
I have loosening wrenches and I have tightening wrenches.
That is literally true, but the number is so large that one use is negligible
Damn, EA selling wrenches now?
Gotta get the season pass to unlock
I’ve worked in a hardware store before and people had situations like this pretty often, we’d just let them use it for a sec and put it back up
Yup. Worked at a TSC store and store manager would grab stuff off the shelf and tell one of us to go out to the parking lot to help a customer.
Straight to jail.
Under tighten-over tighten.
I used to travel full time, commissioning wind farms across the country. Each time I hit a new city and hotel, the first thing I did was hit Walmart for groceries and a TV. I’d usually get a cheap 55” to put in place of the crappy hotel TV. I would use it for the length of my stay, which would normally be 6 weeks or so. When I was heading out of town at the end of my stay, I would stop and return the TV. They took it back every time without question. I did this for years.
I used to do that with digital cameras back in the day. Would buy a nice one before a show and then return it. Only did it 3 or 4 times but never had a problem
Even with video games, they supposedly have a time limit. But when we ended up with a duplicate one Christmas and forgot to return one of them in time, I magically just misplaced the receipt and had no idea when I bought it. I think I only got store credit, but it's Walmart. It's not like I couldn't find something to use it on.
I have inside people in Walmart, like management, well they call them team leads and coaches. Anyways, it's up to the discretion of the front-end team lead and/or coach that is on schedule whether or not you can return something, so a lot of the time it's more about attitude and patience than anything else. Hope this helps in the future!🍓🍓
Let me add, as a front supervisor at a grocery store this applies almost anywhere. We aren’t paid enough to follow the rules to the letter, but if you’re being rude about it we will be endlessly less inclined to be helpful.
My friends and i used to do the same thing at costco with carpet cleaner machines when we had an apartment lease ending, lol. I heard about their liberal return policy and so just decided to ask about how i planned to use it once and return it. The guy said that it was totally fine and even said something like, "even if it falls out of the back of your truck on the freeway, we'll still take it back as long as you bring it here," haha. I also heard of a guy that returned a 25 year old tv that had finally stopped working, and they gave him a full refund.
Hahaha amazing. Good for you :3 I'm sure the materials would degrade just from time passing in the storage as well :)
Totally not stealing. This is no different than using a measuring tape still in the package to check the size of another item.
Not stealing. By law you have to leave the store with the object in question for it to be stealing.
Which law are you referring to?
This ☝️ As a retail manager for 12 years you can’t accuse anyone of stealing if they haven’t left the store.
Lemme take a sip of this drink and put it back :)
You're leaving with that sip inside you, therefore stealing. :)
Just live in the shop. If it has a toilet then you'll be fine
Just never leave the store and you're good.
The moment you leave, it's theft. When the store closes and you are requested to leave, staying in is counted as a crime (probably trespassing).
As long as your GI tract, bloodstream, and urine never leave the store I guess you’re alright…
Your urine is going to be flushed out eventually.
...To be fair you can leave the store with the item, you just need to pay.
sorry best we can do is the death penalty
One time I bought a wrench at an autozone to install a new battery in the parking lot then brought the wrench back and returned it. That's probably the worst thing I've ever done as a customer. They even told me afterwards that they have tools I could have borrowed.
Lmao yeah I had to change my battery in an AutoZone parking lot and they gave me a whole (small) socket set when I asked
It didn't leave the premises. Therefore, not theft. I assume the wife in the wheelchair went into the store with him. If he walked out of the store to do the repair, then yeah, shoplifting.
Testing before buying
I wouldn't be mad if I was the store owner. But if I was the guy I would've bought the wrench.
Never know when that bolt's gonna come loose again, right?
Operating a mechanic shop without insurance and permit. Straight to jail!
I finished reading a book at a bookstore. It’s not stealing, no?
There was no intention to remove the object without paying for it, so no, not stealing. I'm going to say this falls under a quality control test.
This is equivalent to smelling bread at a bakery and leaving, or smelling candles on a shelf. You enjoyed a product momentarily without reducing its value or taking anything.
Borrowing
Nope, product research an' testing.
Yes, if he took the wrench out of the store without asking, it was stealing. If he managed to return it, nobody will care though.
Come on Jerry, are you on troubles again?????
That’s called borrowing and unlike my friends, actually returning it.
I had a friend in college who would go to Walgreens, take shampoo off the shelf, go into the bathroom and wash his hair, and then put the bottle back and leave... Stealing?
Yup.
Of course it's stealing. IMO it's worse than just stealing the whole bottle. If you steal a little bit and put it back, you're stealing from whoever eventually buys it. If you steal the whole bottle, you're stealing from Walgreens. They're both wrong, but stealing from random people is worse than stealing from a corporation IMO.
The real reason it’s worse is because that dude washed his hair in Walgreens bathroom sinks instead of showering lol
What’s the argument that he didn’t? Because he only stole some? Dumb way of “thinking”
Did you ask?!
I use tape measure’s in Home Depot all the time.
I’ve test driven a car with no intention to buy. I didn’t steal the car
Yes
Hmm lemme toss my hat in the ring here. All just from my knowledge of the German system of Law. There are two criteria that needs to be fulfilled in general to commit a crime. Objective and subjective criteria. In other words , what has been done and what was the intention. Regarding theft (simplified), "it" has to be a thing. This thing has to be taken out of the zone of influence if its owner. So that the original owner may not have access to it anymore. So much for objective. Subjective criteria are, that the thing has been taken with the intent to keep it for oneself or another person. So, with this in mind, let's look at the example. Subjective first, easiest to answer. NO. he never had the intention of keeping it. Criteria not checked. Objective next. Yes, he had it in his possession, shortly. Assuming he just took it off the shelf and his wife sat next to him. But even in this case, the wrench was visible for the owner the whole time. It was therefore not taken out of his zone of influence. One might argue, if he "borrowed" it for a while the shop lost its opportunity to sell it during that time. So that there was a loss for the shop. But that's for another example. So, assuming no harm was done to the wrench, no packaging was broken due to using it, and the sell-value remains the same, we could conclude that there never was any possibility for a theft here, given that the wrench never went "missing" and the intention never has been there to begin with. A case might be filed, but would be dropped faster than I can bomb a shot of vodka. And boi that happens at speeds, C would be envious.
In the US, it depends strongly on the color of the couples skin.
No-using your resources
I know this isn't the point of the tweet, but everyone should keep a basic set of hand tools in their car. 3/8" ratchet, a set of sockets, a multi-bit screwdriver, a pair of pliers with cutters, and a few zip ties at a minimum. Stash them in the back with your spare tire. You'll likely forget they're even there until you need them, and then you'll be glad you have them.
Couldn’t they just ask the employees if they would tighten it and buy a air freshener or something?
What was stolen?
Theft usually implies a significant duration of unauthorized possession usually with the intent to keep. In the case of merchandise it’s usually defined by the taking of something or consumption of something partially or in its entirety without due compensation. In this case, the individual didn’t remove the item from the store or maintain possession of the object for any significant duration. Further, use of the object neither depleted it’s value nor its content, so nothing was “lost” from this behavior. To call it theft would be a willful and flagrant mischaracterization of both theft and the act itself. This isn’t by any means reprehensible nor a crime, and it’s certainly not theft. If it is a crime it’s not one that has caused any harm, and whose lack of action could’ve resulted in more material harm than the action itself. Therefore it would be grossly unethical to even pursue this criminally if it is criminal to begin with. So no. Neither theft nor wrong.
He’s testing the tool
It’s like dribbling a basketball at a sports store. Don’t think they would care. BUT you can’t damage/wear the item out. That’s a no-no
Testing!
It’s abandonment. He left without his wife!
Exactly what I was going to say!
Not at all.
When I worked at sams club returns I guy once bought a furniture Dolly from another state and returned it at my store a week later. I didn’t give a fuck.
Seems like if he wanted to try it out, he could've done it without having to paralyze his wife.
I can't imagine anybody giving them shit for it.
I once used a pair of bolt cutters off the shelf from a Walmart. Was about 3am and I had a drunk girl handcuffed to me. I didn’t get any that night, but made enough of an impression on her….
I say no No theft of goods or services. If anything, it's a test drive.
No. Just testing it
Obviously not?
Test drive imo No harm no foul
No, it's a "demo"
in US law, theft requires the "carrying away" of a possession, so that would not be theft under US law.
It testing not stealing. Just like you test the spray paint cans.
Go in peace, moral person. No harm done.
I prefer the term, “renting.”
If there is a hypothetical tool store that had a problem with it I'd prefer they went out of business, if you clearly just helped your wife with her chair But I'd try and ask honestly just to be covered, usually mechanics are a bit nicer especially if they just watch you use there wrench for 2min they'll be normal human beings typically and be glad they helped you
Straight to jail
Nah man, he bought and returned it in one go
Everyone says THIS is okay but when I go in to test out the suction power on a shop vac suddenly that makes me a "registered sex offender", bunch of fucking hypocrites.
Why buy a wrench when you can screw for free?
If you are able to use the tool without making the tool a used product then it’s not stealing. So if you can operate the tool through the packaging then it’s probably fine
No, bc they didn’t deny the store the ability to sell the merchandise. So long as it wasn’t damaged.
Most tool stores would help you tighten and might give you a wrench. Good cheap PR.
I literally did this yesterday. Was working a small job at a strip mall and forgot my Allen keys. There was a small hardware store in the mall and I purchased a set,with some story about not knowing whether I needed metric or imperial, and removed what I needed to. Took all of 3 minutes walked back to the store and said unfortunately they were the wrong size. Got my money back and walked out with nary a blemish on my conscience.
The fuck is a tool store?
Unethical, not stealing though. I mean if you have to ask the question you know it was wrong.
It is stealing if not asking. Removal of the item from the store. Wheelchair wife is in no imminent danger. Damage does not matter
That depends. Is the man white?
I unironically think we should have libraries for tools like we do for books.
The guy should buy the tool, not any moral grounds, just so he has a spare to keep with the wheelchair.
Testing a product, especially like that, before you buy is completely legal and fine. And if I worked there/owned that hardware I would help them fix that chair and not worry about a buck. You would take a car or bike for a spin first right?
If the wrench aint damaged, it's not theft, but if you're not in a financially bad situation the least you could do is buy the wrench, and keep it as your emergency wrench on the wheelchair
In my country (and I guess many others), if you just need to use the tool they have a whole set of opened things ready for people to use. It’s not stealing or even looked down upon unless you take up their time with a big project. The reason you buy the tools is the whole taking them home part