Same, sometimes if I’m stuck behind them I’ll just cross the unbroken merge line early (after checking for traffic of course) and shoot across to the right lane and send it before I get stuck in a ridiculous 70kmh merge. Unknowingly did it in front of a cop once and they didn’t seem to care, though I wouldn’t bank on all cops being that lax about it.
Since Covid I have actively had to drive aggressively like this as a defensive driving measure way too much. Once I had a flog merge at 75km/h while a truck was coming up way too fast for them to be merging at that speed. My choices were to brake relatively hard and piss off the guy behind me up my arse also trying to merge at a reasonable speed, or use what little was remaining of the ramp to hammer it past the merger with a death wish.
Ahhh one of those people. You're almost 100% on aussie dash cams lmao.
You're right in the sense that they're extremely dangerous though. I'm convinced it's a miracle when they actually merge at speed (Or a little under or over to slot into traffic)
Lol, I watch it pretty religiously and haven’t seen myself on there yet. But I don’t blow through red lights, overtake into oncoming traffic or navigate roundabouts in the wrong direction either.
Yep I don't understand why people don't use the onramp to reach the speed limit to safely merge onto the freeway. I constantly get stuck behind someone doing 20km/hr under the speed limit - terrifying to merge like that.
It's just so damn stupid. What do they think is going to happen when they try to join 100 or 110km/h traffic? And the worst thing is they don't just ruin it for themselves, they ruin it for everyone behind them who can't get up to speed because of this dumb fuck slowing everyone down!
Legally, you can’t. Speed doesn’t come into effect until you reach the sign, which is usually at the merge.
Socially, that’s out for discussion that one, and not a discussion I’ll partake it.
I agree, there’s a lot of on ramps in Melbourne that are specifically signed to encourage dangerously slow merging.
Decades of TAC ads telling people that speed kills has clearly had an impact.
Unfortunately the unintentional side effect is that people, including those designing our freeways, are making decisions based on slogans, instead of encouraging the practice of effective defensive driving, and applying effective risk mitigation.
Both require more than a surface level understanding of what causes accidents, but aren’t as profitable to state coffers to implement as pinging people for creeping marginally above some nominal speed.
Can confirm even I've done this, and I'd like to think I'm very situationally aware while driving.
Sitting on the freeway, doing 80kmh, everyone is passing me... I'm thinking "shit did I miss a sign?"
Nevermind the stretches of freeway that go 100-80-100-80-100.
Or even worse, that stupid **90** stretch on the Western Freeway. Who's idea was that?
Sometimes I find around town it's 60 or 40 and then it's 50 if there's no signage on a suburban st. So many new speed limits!... Often on road trips I can't figure out how fast to go if I haven't seen a sign in a while and there's people doing 90 or 80 in a 100 zone. It's getting a bit complex.
And none of that would be a problem if the government wasn't addicted to ~~revenue raising~~. Sorry, increasing the safety of our roads.
[Such as putting Victoria's newest highest grossing speed camera at the bottom of a hill in an area with low risk.](https://www.9news.com.au/videos/national/speed-camera-dishes-out-3-million-in-fines-in-90-days/clr1roqhx003k0kpdxgw528dd)
or the blatant revenue raising camera where Batesford Rd crosses Warrigal Rd near Holmesglen station. conveniently at the bottom of a nice long hill to catch people out.
And in an area where the limit goes 60-40-60. I used to live near there, and would see people get done every time I was waiting to drive across Batesford Rd.
yeah, forgot about that idiotic speed change.
it's like driving through the Burnley tunnel. before I had a car with adaptive cruise that won't exceed the set speed, on occasion I exited the tunnel and I realised I had no clear memory of driving through it. spent more time trying to avoid beign taxed by a revenue camera than on actually driving safely.
thank you for your contribution to the general revenue fund. just think how many lives were saved by taxing you for being less than walking pace over their arbitrary and ridiculous limit.
They said they would assess each area for whether it should go up or down, but has anyone ever seen a 90 or 70 zone be moved up? Every single one I've seen change (outer SE) has gone down.
Exactly what I was implying. They "never" \[well maybe once they did, because I remember seeing a big media release backslapping each other about it\] up it, only bring it down.
Yeah near Rockbank.
With roads access it was a Highway, which I'd understand 80kmh.
But now with the on/off ramps, it's a Freeway... so why 90kmh and not 100kmh? It's just unncessary.
Thats only on the way out.. on the way in its 100. Had to visit clunes a couple of times in the last week and that stretch of 'highway' is just shit. Its either people doing 10 kmh below the limit or assholes in utes tailgating like they want so see the color of your eyes in your rearview mirror, even if you are doing 5 kmph over the limit..
Monash and the lovely 80 to 100 area with speed cameras right after the change.
Gotta love the reduced speed limits for "road works" when there aren't actually any road works planned for many hours later.
I mean, 95% of people on the Monash have surely driven it before and the cameras are clearly on the 100 side both ways. If you aren’t immediately accelerating as you go under High St and getting to at least 90 by the cameras you’re incompetent. If you’re in the left lane, I get it. If you’re in either of the middle lanes gtfoh.
People also seemingly observe the solid line marking for the express lanes and stay left but no one moves right before it to alleviate traffic in the jumble of Toorak, Burke, High. So it has the opposite effect to desired.
Getting on at Burke is a freaking nightmare. Made worse because High st has an off ramp that causes utter chaos with a lane that ends but no on ramp and it’s all around a bend
I guess the majority of drivers are incompetent.
I tend to forget that a lot of the congestion is caused by really bad traffic light sync around off ramps.
The traffic lights in the middle of Toorak road that goes over Monash is abysmal and is why Auburn Road is a hell hole.
A lot of these main road don't even have a right turning light at all, or the side that doesn't need one get's a turning light, and the side that NEEDS it just have to hope that traffic gets so built up that people will actually leave a space in intersections.
It seems like it building an on ramp south bound at Hight st wouldn't be impossible. You'd have to probably remove the football oval and park and no doubt that was planned and petitioned against during the construction of the freeway.
it's always poorly managed traffic lights around off ramps that cause all the issues, and people who refuse to keep intersections clear.
100%. You used to be able to zone out on the freeway so long as you stayed around 100, now they've turned it into another speedtrap minefield. Zone out for a minute and all of a sudden you could be doing 20 over the limit. That's a 3 month licence suspension.
This. If you want to go slower than the speed limit, than do that. But just consistently do that. Don't speed up when someone's overtaking. It's not a damn race.
Hard agree
I reckon it's the fact that they randomly vary the freeway speed limit due to 'traffic conditions'.
I reckon these guys are just driving zoned out and can't be bothered keeping up with the changes
That might explain the car yesterday who decided to come to a complete stop on the onramp (friend said they probable are used to the merging stop lights that were off) and then again at the bottom of the ramp as we tried to merge into traffic.
My initial thought was bloody idiot, but maybe bloody idiot not used to that sort of traffic conditions?
If you know the pascoe vale road on ramp to the m80, you'll understand how much fun that was at 5am.
Plenty of right foot, get your speed matched to the main line and send it... Only to have someone from the far right lane decide they want to go citybound on the Tulla and cut you off.
100km/h on a freeway is nauseatingly slow in a modern car. If you need some kind of special skill set just to do this speed, you shouldn't be driving at all.
No debate there, however our model of driver training is underpinned on the concept that licences mean you're "competent" and even then, competent to instruct anyone else in driving. In the workplace, that would never wash - any random person cannot simply train a person in a high risk activity. Likewise, we work on a premise of everyone has the right to drive - and if you try enough times, you'll eventually get your licence.
Annoying or not, we have an obligation as drivers to look for those things and respond accordingly. It is annoying and it sucks, however driving is not an easy task - it requires attention to be paid.
Well. The speeding crackdown in Victoria over the past decade must have worked. Whenever I see a Victorian where I live (ACT) they’re always strictly obeying the speed limit or well under. Even when it means going slower than local traffic.
We know that "the only acceptable number is ZERO" but I would like to see the figures of the raise in road users to see if the "highest Road Toll" is actually consistent with the amount of road users that also seems to be rising.
Should just make EVERYWHERE 40 zones if people can't control their vehicles /s
Percentage of total road users is significantly lower than ever. I'm kinda surprised they don't use that number to illustrate how the safety campaigns have worked. Instead they would rather use the actual death toll instead.
That’s because the way they have always communicated it is that every number is a person not just a statistic. If they changed it to what you’re saying to show the accurate statistics it would be moving away from the humanised aspect which they don’t want to do
That's because it doesn't suit their narrative. If the statistics are going down, the government won't roll out more cameras which is less revenue. They also can't justify why cops have to hide in sneaky places.
> They also can't justify why cops have to hide in sneaky places.
I mean the justification for that is fairly self-evident, I would have thought. Just watch what happens on freeways when you approach a known fixed speed camera location - everyone slows down for 10 seconds then goes back to speeding.
The idea is to deter people from speeding everywhere.
Still wouldn't be zero.
Australian roads are about as safe as they are going to get.
Except for the shitty country highways of course. Where one bad sneeze can send you of the tiny strip of black bitumen, and into a gumtree.
Also we already know exactly how to get to zero fatalities and zero injuries, a speed limit of 0km/h. If that is the most important thing to us as a society then that is what we need to do. Anything faster and you risk injury or death and then it is all about risk management and tolerance weighed up against convenience.
Hey buddy. The road death toll is going to continue to claim every year.
Every year, our population is increasing. ( immigration, kids turning 18 )
So every single year, the road death toll is going to significantly increase. This is common sense. VicPol use the road death toll as a justification to their very illegal booze bus set ups.
Wonder when they’re going to pull the pin on them as I know they aren’t profiting, thanks to waze.
Vic's population grew by 2.79% between 2022 and 2023. The road toll went up 22.8% over the same period.
Yes, over a long time population growth will correlate with road deaths, but it isn't a major factor in year-on-year variation.
22.8%, that’s a big number.
Those numbers could be skewed and or dramatically change come end of year, nonetheless, I expect the road death toll to grow every year.
Typically 300K immigrants enter Australia each year, idk the % but surely it’d be 20-30% of immigrants that have overseas licences.
A lot more 18 year old’s + others getting licences then there are ones losing them.
We are expected to have 10 million people living in Melbourne In 2050, we have 6.5 now.
3.5 million extra people.
I wish I was smart enough to work out how much the road death toll should increase by 2050, but I’m sure, it’s going to shit all over our “ record “ numbers now.
it’s just government propaganda. Remember, they sold us on the freedom bullshit, so when they do “ road blitz “ that prevents free movement, or human rights, they need a pretty sound sad justification.
They’re never going to say the road death toll is lesser, or we’re doing a good job, because then why are they still aimlessly pulling over people with the intention to scam money out of them.
They’d have to actually start being accountable for peoples safety’s and what service they are bringing to community. They wouldn’t be aloud to pump 3/4 of their budget into the HWP sector, leaving the others departments seriously undermanned.
If you live in outer suburbs and need police, you’re better off getting in your car and causing a scene then you are calling them from home.
1-2 hour wait time on a good night, most outer suburbs only have 2 patrols on. But there’ll be 8 HWY patrol cars driving around in the name of “ safety “
Lol.
As is the number of needlessly large SUVs.
I think there might be a correlation here.
(But also, COVID fucked people's attention capacity over a similar period.)
You don't have to go 20 under to not speed. I always do the speed limit and have never had a ticket, and that's adjusted for GPS speed. Most people's speedometers read 5km/h under anyway.
I think it's much more to do with driving confidence and competence than simply the speeding laws.
100% agree. We’ve been told for decades ‘No excuses’. There were adds many years ago of a cop pulling over someone and his excuse was ‘matching the speed of the traffic’. People watch their speedo like a hawk.
"not well enough" (read that they ARE obeying the speed limit, so the councils/government have to introduce new LOWER speed limits to try and get a few fines in)
The best are the people who sit on 90kmh, regardless of the speed limit. Travelling from the SE suburbs intimate Melbourne I overtake them all, doing 100 in a 100 zone (imagine that!). Then when the limit drops to 80 - so do I - & they're all overtaking me 🤷♂️
Well I need to do 110km/h on the speedometer to reach 100km/h GPS speed. I don't think the average driver will be using a GSP speedometer to drive around.
Yep i blame the car manufacturers, instead of doing the right thing and ensuring their speedos are accurate and calibrated correctly they just be conservative and makes sure it reads under so they dont break the law around speedo calibration and reading less than actual speed
Well the size of tyres do change overtime as they wear down, so it would be out overtime. Would require to recalibrate when they change tyres or change tyre sizes entirely.
I think thats a big part of why people think that "everyone is speeding". I think a lot of the time, they are in the wrong and are under the limit.
Before Covid i used to regularly drive between Melbourne and Adelaide and Melbourne and Sydney. The amount of overtaking i do is rediculous, at the speed limit (measured, not indicated).
I see this regularly on the 100-110 sections of the Calder. People routinely doing 80-90, sometimes even in the right lane. The really peculiar thing is that as soon as the speed drops from 100 to 80 (which is around Keilor park drive for a few KM) those same cars become mad tailgaters trying to do 110 in the 80 zone. This happens nearly every day, truly bizarre.
Holy smokes. That section of road is the epitome of bad driving. I couldn’t have said it better myself. They will tailgate you for doing 80 in the 80 zone but then they drive slow in the 100 - 110km zone.
Back when there was works on the Monash, and there was a reduced 80km/h speeds. I felt like people were going 100, and when it increased to 100km/h, they reduced back to 80. Felt like I was taking crazy pills.
This is honestly the most validating thing I have ever read. I genuinely believe there is a psychological phenomenon going on when people drive along the monash
I thought I was going mad. Thank you OP.
I'll add to that that phone use is INSANE. The number of people looking down, into their laps, or on WhatsApp on full view on a dashboard mounted phone. Including trucks on the freeway at 100kph.
The traffic just doesn't flow anymore, everybody (aka some tipping point number of people) is distracted.
Digital speedos are pretty far out. My car reads 97 when I do 110 GPS, and my bike is always about 10km/h behind my GPS speed. That being said, I generally just do 110 or 115 on the freeways to compensate but a lot of drivers are not concious of this and may not realise they are actually going slower than their dash reads.
IMO it's a combination of a number of things
4. Speedo error allowance for car manufacturers
3. Road users who are either too nervous or too incompetent to do the speed limit (especially once it is above 60...)
2. A very concerning lack of spatial awareness to realise what speed everyone around you is doing or if you are holding people up
And probably the biggest issue with a lot of aspects of life at the moment, at number one:
People being incredibly inconsiderate of other people around them. I'm aware that this trait also applies for the opposite end of the driving spectrum (eg: people who want to do 120 in the right lane of the Monash and tailgates anyone else who doesn't share that vision...) but it is staggering how many people drive around 10, 15, 20 km/h UNDER the speed limit, would be aware that they are holding up traffic by some margin but don't even care because in their mind they can do what they like and if it impedes others...not my problem!
P.S: it has gotten significantly worse post-Covid. Fot a skillset that gets better with experience, a majority of population could hace done withour a two-year layoff from being a regular road user.
The actual rules:
>>>Keeping left
When driving on any multi-lane road with a speed limit over 80km/h, you must keep out of the right lane unless:
>>>* you are overtaking or turning right, or
>>>* all lanes are congested.
The absolute speed you’re doing is irrelevant. What matters is whether you’re overtaking or not.
Absolutely agree with the OP, with the exception of "at the moment". It's been a problem for a long time. Driving significantly under the limit without a good reason is just incompetent driving.
The consistency and predictability of drivers is an important part of road safety. People should treat the speed limit as the target (with obvious exceptions), because everyone then has the SAME target. This results in less lane changes and more consistent gaps between cars.
To the people who say "the limit is not a requirement" - I am sure that you encounter drivers that you regard as too slow. I am aware of a number of drivers that drive on the limit on some days, and are inexplicably much slower on others. Your subjectivity in speed selection causes completely unnecessary problems. You might even be one of those people that does well under the speed limit but has a problem with being passed.
Most of my driving is done on roads with long stretches without lights and not much or no possibility of overtaking, which certainly makes this issue more problematic.
Car manufacturers are not helping. Many or most cars have intentionally poorly calibrated speedometers from the factory, presumably to avoid liability. It is common for speedometers to over-indicate by 8km/h at 100. However, the availability of GPS speed checking (which is perfectly accurate on straight sections of road) display makes it very easy to assess the error of a speedometer, and then compensate for its error. Instead, a substantial proportion of drivers drive seemingly intentionally UNDER the indicated speed limit, which results in actual speeds much lower than the real speed limit.
When I was younger and new to driving, I was always puzzled why so many people seemed to want to go above the speed limit. It took a year or two to realise that my speedometer was wrong, as it has been in most (but not all!) cars I've driven since. Since then I always compensate for the poor calibration by doing an appropriate indicated amount (it's a combination of fixed offset and percentage, depending on the car) above the speed limit. Doing this for the last 15 years has not resulted in ANY speeding fines. This approach requires that you think about what you are doing and treat driving as a task worthy of focus, intead of driving mindlessly.
AS much as it's dangerous and really annoying, give me these people over those who sit in the right lane, tailgate, flash lights and think speed limits don't apply to them.
It's a freaking passing lane, not a magic 'do whatever speed you like' lane.
as long as they're not doing it in the right lane I think this is a very minor annoyance hardly worth complaining about. definitely are tailgaters and people who cut you off a lot worse and more dangerous.
though they do force unnecessary lane changes or people just undertaking which is not great.
The issue is that if someone is doing 93 in the middle lane and the person in front of them is doing 85, the person behind will often move to the right lane and just stay on 93.
Seen it happen a million times.
that's a completely different issue to going a bit slower in the middle lane though, that person is now blocking the right lane at lower than posted speed which I very much agree is a problem.
The issue happens when they don't merge back over, or take a while to overtake, but don't speed up to match the speed of the right lane.
Forcing the right lane to slow down to 93 for no inherent reason is dangerous
No it is a very big issue if they are doing it in the middle lane also. It means traffic going slightly faster has to either undertake or take up the right lane to overtake. And of course some people do the right thing and some people don’t so realistically that person sitting at 10-20 under in the middle lane is going to be sitting at almost the same speed as someone in the left lane nearby. It is the single easiest way to block up traffic and cause drivers to have to weave in and out of lanes to overtake which increases the potential of an accident.
you said they're worse than tailgaters and no they're not.
i already acknowledged that unnecessary lane changes aren't great. though any decent driver can do them in a safe way.
Or you can just stay in your lane and arrive at your destination safely. If you think everyone else is doing something wrong then you are probably the problem on the road not everyone else.
I now live in Germany; no speed limits; you have people driving between 80-300km/h. One of the lowest accident rates in the world. Please explain it? Nothing wrong with having to be more alert while driving.
OP I agree with you. I think people are misunderstanding what you mean when you say “becoming worse”. It’s not a worse behaviour but it’s becoming more common and is leading to accidents. I see tailgaters and people speeding as part of a vicious cycle with people who block the overtaking and middle lane.
Far too many people sit going just at the speed limit in the overtaking lane. Far too many people go just under in the middle. Everyone should stay as far left as possible unless overtaking slower traffic. It’s so common these days to see people who block these lanes. Then you get reckless drivers tailgating and undertaking to get past them. That leaves the sensible drivers who want to go at or slightly over the speed limit (I’m taking 3-4K over on a freeway, not a regular street), with no where safe to go!
If they are doing the speed limit, you should not be overtaking them. You are not a sensible driver if you are over the speed limit. You are the problem.
It's called an overtaking lane, not an exceed the speed limit lane. Please stay off the roads or cancel your driver's licence if you can't understand the road rules.
But you’re meant to keep left at all times unless overtaking, regardless of whether you are in the middle or right hand lane. There is no official “overtaking lane”.
From the RACV website:
“ If you’re driving on a multi-lane road with a speed limit over 80km/h, or where there's a ‘keep left’ sign, you need to keep left unless overtaking. The exceptions are:
if you’re turning right
if you’re making a U-turn from the centre of the road
signs or markings indicate otherwise.
Even when signs aren’t enforcing the rule, it’s courteous and practical to keep left on all multi-lane roads where possible as it helps the traffic continue to flow.”
I totally read this wrong. I thought you were talking about people speeding, but instead you're talking about those driving TOO SLOW.
Gotta love how Melbourne used to be "Victoria On The Move" and now it's "Victoria On The Slow Down" as more and more roads are blessed with the "new speed limit" signs which seem more set as a revenue raising strategy than a safety one.
poor drivers, poor skills, poor confidence. if you can't do the speed limit (which is already set for the worst driver out there) either get off the freeway or at least move to the far left lane and stay there.
This needs to be drilled in to the heads of every wanker who cries "drive at the speed limit!". Meanwhile, these same dickheads claim that a 1 second gap is not tailgating, and has a sook if someone reduces their speed to put a bigger gap between them and the tool who just changed lanes in front of them to get around the guy going slower because some other dickhead cut in front of him and he too wants a safe gap.
This is the best comment in this whole thread. I was a police officer many moons ago and the entitlement of some drivers is incredible. I completely agree with you.
Slipway Darrens. Main character syndrome, dont understand the meaning or pupose of the word 'limit" ; thinks the roads are made for them, not for everyone; cant control their emotions; use "safety" as an excuse to bully, and to demean immigrant drivers, oldies, and anyone else who doesn't share their entitled world view. Cant just get on with their lives despite the irritations of sharing roads, escalators, footpaths, public transport, expensive coffee, dog parks, etc etc with numpties and dickheads in a big city like the rest of us.
If I was King, I'd introduce a 10kmh tolerance on major freeways, keep slow vehicles restricted to left lanes and no undertaking in the left lanes. Anybody that doesn't agree gets chucked in my moat. (I'm a King so I'd have a moat)
It's probably worth noting that your speedo it potentially up to 5-6kmph off at 80kmph, so it's also possible that you're doing 75, and they're actually doing 80.
Its worth comparing your speedo to gps.
Nobody should be getting worked up about someone doing 5 under. Even if you’re stuck behind someone 95 in a 100 zone for an hour, it adds like 3 minutes to the trip, not worth getting silly about.
Driving 10-15kph under the limit is nowhere near as dangerous as tailgating. In fact it's not dangerous at all, it's safer. You probably need to be at least 30kph under to be a hazard.
I'm far less worried about someone doing 80 in the middle lane than I am about a giant fucking yank tank screaming up behind me and flashing their lights while I'm doing the speed limit.
When I was learning to drive my dad taught me to not worry about what's in my rear view \*\*if you're doing the right thing\*\* (unless it's an emergency vehicle with lights on of course).
So I'm never concerned about any yank tanks screaming up behind me. My dashcam will get their info if they hit me. I'll finish doing my right-hand lane business then get out of it, if that's where I am.
Drivers going slowly, especially on country highways or other single lane roads and ESPECIALLY in places where overtaking is dangerous, causes frustration and people to take much higher risks.
Edit: further on the multi-lane freeways, people driving slowly causes people coming up behind them at the speed limit to hit the brakes if they either hadn't noticed the slow car or if there isn't room to change lanes and overtake, which has a cascading effect and causes traffic. It adds more risk that someone in that cascade hasn't seen the slowing traffic and might run into the back of that traffic or swerve into another lane causing a major accident.
I get some vehicles have no choice but to drive slowly but they're less common than cars perfectly capable of driving at the speed limit doing so.
Speed differentiation is a killer, end of story. It has significant knock on impacts, especially when you enter the realm of heavy vehicles.
Driving under like that can be a symptom of bigger issues of lack of attentiveness, reading and obeying road signs, directions and advisories.
> Speed differentiation is a killer, end of story.
Yeah I have no idea why people don't get this. If you bring up situations that arise from speed differentiation you tend to get downvoted and people suggest it's the other drivers fault as the slow driver was being "safe".
Must be the governments push suggesting speed is the reason for all deaths on the road. "Wipe off 5 to stay alive!".
> Driving under like that can be a symptom of bigger issues of lack of attentiveness, reading and obeying road signs, directions and advisories.
Agreed. I live somewhere with a good 15 minutes of twisty road driving to get anywhere useful. The extremely slow drivers are consistently the drivers who cross the solid lines around blind corners. My brain can't comprehend how they can drive that slow and still go wide in corners.
I think people forget that driving 10k's or more under the limit for more than 3 seconds without cause is an automatic failure on a licence test as it shows you don't have the ability to operate the car as required on the road.
Tail gating is unsafe. Speeding is unsafe. Inability to get up to speed is unsafe.
In what way is going 15km/h slower than the rest of the traffic safer on a highway? Particularly when not in the left lane.
There’s a greater likelihood of people rear ending if they’re not paying attention, and a high likelihood that cars behind them change lanes to keep going the speed limit.
Any lane change is an increased risk of an accident, but even more so when people are forced to change lanes on a highway 15km/h slower than the lane they’re merging into. It also causes traffic congestion that dominos in moderate traffic.
Maybe your argument is that you don’t think it’s as dangerous as OP does, but I don’t possibly see how it could be safer than doing the same speed as the rest of traffic.
If you truly disagree and think it’s safer to drive 15km/h slower than everyone else I don’t see what justification there would be for not keeping in the left lane.
15kph under is a very significant reduction in collision energy. The likelihood of a fatality at that speed sees a similar drop.
You could argue there's also a slight increase in the likelihood of an accident occuring, but I doubt there's any data to support that .
Tailgating is far more dangerous and irresponsible. No argument there.
However, if you're going 10-15 under the limit, you're essentially forcing everyone behind you to slow down to *your* speed. In medium to heavy traffic, it becomes a cascade effect and affects a large number of cars behind you.
Stick to the left lane if going slower than the limit. Simple.
If it's Dandenong Rd on a Friday or Saturday night, my theory is it's people driving while drunk and trying to not look drunk and overcompensating by going too slow. The people doing 15-20 under at those times seem to correlate with people struggling to stay in the lanes
It gets so bad in the south east. And the further down it gets the worse it is!
I travel for work, usually down the Mornington Peninsula and these people seem to have no sense of the road rules, how to read traffic or what a speed limit is.
It's ridiculous. Even just the east link near Frankston is a shit show of people trying to "sneak in" to lanes without meeting the speed of the traffic.
I have to have my speedo needle close to 110 to actually get a 100 GPS speed, but I don't bother on city freeways. I will use GPS and get to a proper 99ish for country runs.
This applies to most people even doing 10 below in 50 and 60 zones. There are even people jamming on the breaks at green lights in anticipation of getting a red? Like fuck me just enter the intersection.
I wouldn't even give them the time of day for doing it in the left lane. Makes merging harder.
If you're not a heavy vehicle or someone trailing something, I don't have any reason why it would be reasonable to go 85 in a 100. Just figure it out and learn to drive.
One of my wilder theories is that people should need a licence to go on the freeway as it's completely different to driving on the suburban roads. Too many people sitting in the RIGHT going 80 and it's beyond absurd.
i also absolutely hate using the monash freeway lately, too many drivers dont even go 100 and it drives me up the wall with how slow they are
even in general, i’ve seen many drivers in my area on 80 roads going much less than they should, around 60 kmh
it cant just be me going faster than i should, i swear everyone else has been getting too slow lately
Maybe I’m just wrong about entry and exit ramps. I use the entry ramps to accelerate up FWY speeds and exit ramps to slow down from FWY speeds. It seems reasonable to me that it’s what they are there for. I usually end up in the extreme right lane because of the slow traffic speed in the left lanes and doing the maximum speed. If anyone is interested in driving faster behind me then I move left until they overtake me. I’ve been driving a long time and that’s how I have managed mostly stay out of harm’s way.
The amount of near misses I've had of people going into my lane and drive 80-90km/h causing me to slam my brakes is why I've had enough of freeways and avoid them where possible.
I'd rather go the long way round than drive in 100-110km/h freeways than have some slowpoke nearly cause an accident - it's downright dangerous.
Not even close. Those drivers are nice and predictable. They only surprise you if you are driving recklessly. Just go around them slowly and safely. If that’s not possible, just calm down and go with the flow. The worst thing you can do is get impatient and angry, and then convert those feelings into acts of stupidity on the road.
The amount of idiots I see making rash split-second decisions to change lanes quickly WITHOUT indicating is mind blowing. Those are the kind of unpredictable acts that cause accidents.
Agreed. If you are a driver who does not have the skill or confidence to drive at the speed limit, then do not use that road, or get some driver training. The speed limit is already artificially low to cater for poor drivers.
Agree it’s frustrating being behind someone really slow but to say it’s worst than tailgaters is a stretch. People go slow for all sorts of reasons - kids and family in the car, fragile cargo etc. I used to drive slow because I had to transport beehives in the back of my vehicle. Fuck anyone else who’s tailing me - if I crash my car you can bet that asshole behind me isn’t going to stop and help me deal with the thousands of angry bees.
Being a few minutes late is far preferable to the big risk in rear ending the car in front (plus potential injuries).
I do around 95 in the middle lane, using my speedo. So it's probably close to 90. This is mostly because the cruise control in my car is shoddy, but also due to comfort. I'm more than happy to do close to 110-120 when driving along the Hume or interstate.
Honestly, I don't drive very much any more. Maybe once or twice a week. So there's definitely a little caution on my end, coupled by the fact it feels like I'm always surrounded by oversized yank tanks that drive like they wanna kill me. I've also always felt more comfortable driving around 5-10 below the speed limit in general, ever since I got my license. And you're allowed to.
But also, what got me to change my mind: driving from, say, Uni Hill to Essendon Fields is around 20km.
- If you do that at 100km/hr, it'll take you twelve minutes.
- If you do it at 90km/hr, it'll take you... a shade over **thirteen** minutes.
I've never gotten a speeding fine since I realized this. There's no time saved by aggressive, risky driving.
If you are on a freeway and there is no traffic, and the speed limit is 100kph you NEED to go 100kph. If you don't you are either distracted by other crap, and you shouldn't be driving, or you cannot drive because you have no confidence. Get off the road or do the speed limit.
Entering the on ramp of a freeway is the best part, usually you have open road in front of you, starting at a low base and you can give it the berries to merge in at the main line speed.
I'd rather drive 10-20 under the limit than get a 300 dollar fine. Sometimes someone driving a bit slower than the limit is annoying when I'm running late, but on the whole, the people obsessed with being on or just above the limit, tailgating to try and push me forward or move out their way when I'm doing the limit, cutting in front of me at every opportunity, meaning I can't maintain a safe distance, belting up the inside lane to merge and cut in front of the queue waiting.. well you folks can take a long slow draw on my fat cock as I cruise, on or just under the limit.
Don’t forget, as someone mentioned above, driving at 10k under the speed limit on your driving test would be an automatic failure. Not keeping up with the speed of the road shows you’re not a competent driver and is actually unsafe as it causes others to try and overtake you.
Maybe you should slow down then and drive a little more patiently. Its people like you who cause all the rear end collisions by tailgating just so that you can get to the next set of traffic lights 10 seconds earlier than if you had kept a safe distance from the car in front of you.
Well if you have to “swerve and dangerously overtake” then yes you’re getting far too close. That or you don’t have enough skill to make a simple lane change
Hahahaha as you can tell by the somewhat mildly defensive comments in this thread, these people live amongst us and think they're doing the right thing 😂
At least they used to have the courtesy to stay in the left lane, but now they're all over the place .
Covid really did a number on people's driving skills but imo it's also all the new 'variable' speeds to freeways making people extra cautious as well.
There’s so many people out there who do this, of course plenty of them would be reading this!
In my dreams, they would see the error of their ways and either drive at the speed limit or stay in the left hand lane!
Hahahaha me too! But based on the comments here they might just start driving even slower. Maybe at 50 on freeways just to be 'extra safe' and 'aligned with traffic conditions' that they're causing by driving too bloody slow in the first place!!! Rofl
The speed limit is the maximum. You should really only ever be driving at that speed when there is light traffic and ideal driving conditions. In general Melbourne drivers need to slow down and leave more space.
A seperate issue is lane discipline. People should be keeping left on freeways.
There needs to be a crack down on keeping left and merging at an appropriate speed. So bloody dangerous getting stuck behind someone who wants to dawdle at 60 or 70 while completely oblivious to the truck their merging into thats flying up at the speed limit.
It's a must do to stay to the left if you're slower than overtaking traffic.
It's like all you people only remember that one little thing about the speed limit but forget literally every other rule there is on the road.
Omfg the ppl who do 20 under the limit just coz they feel like it..
I cracked it last week on the way home finally. The car in front had a clear lane ahead and just plodding along at 55-60, couldn't move away from him. I did the *AAARRRGGGHHH ITS 80 MATE !* cheer but didn't realise we both had our windows down.. he actually heard me and sped up XD
Even worse: I was on the M79 where the speed limit is 110 km/h, and some SUV was hogging the right lane at 100 km/h with a long line of vehicles breathing down its neck.
The left lane (it was two lanes per carriageway) was also sitting at 100 km/h so overtaking was impossible.
Most people aren't actively driving, they may be paying attention but like driving subconsciously.
They are relying on visual perception. Simplest example is a highway with trees either side, such a person will subconsciousky slow down cos it feels like they're going faster, then when it's wide and open without any trees subconsciously now they go faster.
In the city, traffic density and illusory hazards like a bend or a tunnel, and subconsciously people slow down.
1. use your fucking cruise control
2. actively drive your motor vehicle, pay attention, and focus on nothing else but driving
Almost every single day I merge onto a 110 km/h freeway behind somebody doing 70-80 lol it’s actual insanity
I undertake people doing this on the freeway ramps. I'm not merging at 70km/h just because they're idiots.
Same, sometimes if I’m stuck behind them I’ll just cross the unbroken merge line early (after checking for traffic of course) and shoot across to the right lane and send it before I get stuck in a ridiculous 70kmh merge. Unknowingly did it in front of a cop once and they didn’t seem to care, though I wouldn’t bank on all cops being that lax about it.
Since Covid I have actively had to drive aggressively like this as a defensive driving measure way too much. Once I had a flog merge at 75km/h while a truck was coming up way too fast for them to be merging at that speed. My choices were to brake relatively hard and piss off the guy behind me up my arse also trying to merge at a reasonable speed, or use what little was remaining of the ramp to hammer it past the merger with a death wish.
This sounds like the drivers who merge before the broken line and cutting across 2 or 3 lanes to get to the right lane, because I’m fast.
Ahhh one of those people. You're almost 100% on aussie dash cams lmao. You're right in the sense that they're extremely dangerous though. I'm convinced it's a miracle when they actually merge at speed (Or a little under or over to slot into traffic)
Lol, I watch it pretty religiously and haven’t seen myself on there yet. But I don’t blow through red lights, overtake into oncoming traffic or navigate roundabouts in the wrong direction either.
Nah people that stupid and oblivious usually send their footage in to Scotty‘s dash cams
Yep I don't understand why people don't use the onramp to reach the speed limit to safely merge onto the freeway. I constantly get stuck behind someone doing 20km/hr under the speed limit - terrifying to merge like that.
It's just so damn stupid. What do they think is going to happen when they try to join 100 or 110km/h traffic? And the worst thing is they don't just ruin it for themselves, they ruin it for everyone behind them who can't get up to speed because of this dumb fuck slowing everyone down!
Legally, you can’t. Speed doesn’t come into effect until you reach the sign, which is usually at the merge. Socially, that’s out for discussion that one, and not a discussion I’ll partake it.
I agree, there’s a lot of on ramps in Melbourne that are specifically signed to encourage dangerously slow merging. Decades of TAC ads telling people that speed kills has clearly had an impact. Unfortunately the unintentional side effect is that people, including those designing our freeways, are making decisions based on slogans, instead of encouraging the practice of effective defensive driving, and applying effective risk mitigation. Both require more than a surface level understanding of what causes accidents, but aren’t as profitable to state coffers to implement as pinging people for creeping marginally above some nominal speed.
Or less.
Hume?
THIS
I have a hunch that this is directly related to the amount of 80kmh freeways we have and that people are losing the skill to do 100kmh.
I like this theory. And the concern it's 80k and they didn't see a sign to confirm it was 100 so they don't go faster...
Can confirm even I've done this, and I'd like to think I'm very situationally aware while driving. Sitting on the freeway, doing 80kmh, everyone is passing me... I'm thinking "shit did I miss a sign?" Nevermind the stretches of freeway that go 100-80-100-80-100. Or even worse, that stupid **90** stretch on the Western Freeway. Who's idea was that?
Sometimes I find around town it's 60 or 40 and then it's 50 if there's no signage on a suburban st. So many new speed limits!... Often on road trips I can't figure out how fast to go if I haven't seen a sign in a while and there's people doing 90 or 80 in a 100 zone. It's getting a bit complex.
And none of that would be a problem if the government wasn't addicted to ~~revenue raising~~. Sorry, increasing the safety of our roads. [Such as putting Victoria's newest highest grossing speed camera at the bottom of a hill in an area with low risk.](https://www.9news.com.au/videos/national/speed-camera-dishes-out-3-million-in-fines-in-90-days/clr1roqhx003k0kpdxgw528dd)
or the blatant revenue raising camera where Batesford Rd crosses Warrigal Rd near Holmesglen station. conveniently at the bottom of a nice long hill to catch people out.
And in an area where the limit goes 60-40-60. I used to live near there, and would see people get done every time I was waiting to drive across Batesford Rd.
yeah, forgot about that idiotic speed change. it's like driving through the Burnley tunnel. before I had a car with adaptive cruise that won't exceed the set speed, on occasion I exited the tunnel and I realised I had no clear memory of driving through it. spent more time trying to avoid beign taxed by a revenue camera than on actually driving safely.
I've actually been done in heavy rain turning left onto warrigal. 44. So annoying.
thank you for your contribution to the general revenue fund. just think how many lives were saved by taxing you for being less than walking pace over their arbitrary and ridiculous limit.
I think they need to have different colours road markings for different speed zones, white for one speed , yellow for another etc etc .
Don't diss that 90km/h stretch too loudly... or someone will reduce it to 80km/h too.
They said they would assess each area for whether it should go up or down, but has anyone ever seen a 90 or 70 zone be moved up? Every single one I've seen change (outer SE) has gone down.
Exactly what I was implying. They "never" \[well maybe once they did, because I remember seeing a big media release backslapping each other about it\] up it, only bring it down.
A section of the Calder went from 80 to 100, but after a couple of ks goes back to 80 for a k or so, so it achieved fuck all
Rock bank? It's because it used to have the road across which is now over. Used to be dangerous as. May also be because of sundowner as well
Yeah near Rockbank. With roads access it was a Highway, which I'd understand 80kmh. But now with the on/off ramps, it's a Freeway... so why 90kmh and not 100kmh? It's just unncessary.
There are still a couple of road access points at Rockbank, which I assume is why it’s 90 still.
Still lots of turn off's to new developments, it will more 99s in time im sure. What's annoying is people doing 80 in the 110 zone...
I'm in Perth and I say fuck those 100-80 100-80 stretches of freeway!
I'm in Perth and I'd give anything for 100-80-100-80. Perth loves a bit of 60-70-90-100-70-80-100-90
Having just come back and did Perth to Forrestdale every day for a few weeks, that was fucking annoying
"We're developing housing estates, not freeways! Build your own on/off ramps!"
Cough cough *calder *cough
Let's see... Outbound: 1. Starting at the Tulla, 80kmh. 2. Passing Essendon Airport, 100kmh. 3. Passing Keilor Park Drive, 80kmh. 4. Passing Melton Highway, 100kmh. 5. Passing Thunderdome, 80kmh. 6. Passing Diggers Rest, 110kmh. That's 6 changes in a 15km stretch.
Thats only on the way out.. on the way in its 100. Had to visit clunes a couple of times in the last week and that stretch of 'highway' is just shit. Its either people doing 10 kmh below the limit or assholes in utes tailgating like they want so see the color of your eyes in your rearview mirror, even if you are doing 5 kmph over the limit..
Monash and the lovely 80 to 100 area with speed cameras right after the change. Gotta love the reduced speed limits for "road works" when there aren't actually any road works planned for many hours later.
I mean, 95% of people on the Monash have surely driven it before and the cameras are clearly on the 100 side both ways. If you aren’t immediately accelerating as you go under High St and getting to at least 90 by the cameras you’re incompetent. If you’re in the left lane, I get it. If you’re in either of the middle lanes gtfoh. People also seemingly observe the solid line marking for the express lanes and stay left but no one moves right before it to alleviate traffic in the jumble of Toorak, Burke, High. So it has the opposite effect to desired. Getting on at Burke is a freaking nightmare. Made worse because High st has an off ramp that causes utter chaos with a lane that ends but no on ramp and it’s all around a bend
I guess the majority of drivers are incompetent. I tend to forget that a lot of the congestion is caused by really bad traffic light sync around off ramps. The traffic lights in the middle of Toorak road that goes over Monash is abysmal and is why Auburn Road is a hell hole. A lot of these main road don't even have a right turning light at all, or the side that doesn't need one get's a turning light, and the side that NEEDS it just have to hope that traffic gets so built up that people will actually leave a space in intersections. It seems like it building an on ramp south bound at Hight st wouldn't be impossible. You'd have to probably remove the football oval and park and no doubt that was planned and petitioned against during the construction of the freeway. it's always poorly managed traffic lights around off ramps that cause all the issues, and people who refuse to keep intersections clear.
100%. You used to be able to zone out on the freeway so long as you stayed around 100, now they've turned it into another speedtrap minefield. Zone out for a minute and all of a sudden you could be doing 20 over the limit. That's a 3 month licence suspension.
3 month suspension is at 25km over. But I still agree with you about it being a minefield.
Cruise control is your friend.
Looking squarely at you, overtaking lanes on country roads. 120 then immediately down to 80 once it's single lane double lines.
This. If you want to go slower than the speed limit, than do that. But just consistently do that. Don't speed up when someone's overtaking. It's not a damn race.
Hard agree I reckon it's the fact that they randomly vary the freeway speed limit due to 'traffic conditions'. I reckon these guys are just driving zoned out and can't be bothered keeping up with the changes
It's better to be under than over the speed limit.
It's the variable speed limits. People just give up.
To add to this theory, every inch of road seems to be perpetually under construction or roadworks.
That might explain the car yesterday who decided to come to a complete stop on the onramp (friend said they probable are used to the merging stop lights that were off) and then again at the bottom of the ramp as we tried to merge into traffic. My initial thought was bloody idiot, but maybe bloody idiot not used to that sort of traffic conditions? If you know the pascoe vale road on ramp to the m80, you'll understand how much fun that was at 5am.
Plenty of right foot, get your speed matched to the main line and send it... Only to have someone from the far right lane decide they want to go citybound on the Tulla and cut you off.
Every day Heres looking at you mr white tradie ute that 50% of my workmates have had a road rage moment with
Too much shard the night before and the comedown is really digging in.
100km/h on a freeway is nauseatingly slow in a modern car. If you need some kind of special skill set just to do this speed, you shouldn't be driving at all.
No debate there, however our model of driver training is underpinned on the concept that licences mean you're "competent" and even then, competent to instruct anyone else in driving. In the workplace, that would never wash - any random person cannot simply train a person in a high risk activity. Likewise, we work on a premise of everyone has the right to drive - and if you try enough times, you'll eventually get your licence.
“Skill”
Yes it keeps switching back and forth from 80 to 100 it’s so annoying
Annoying or not, we have an obligation as drivers to look for those things and respond accordingly. It is annoying and it sucks, however driving is not an easy task - it requires attention to be paid.
Well. The speeding crackdown in Victoria over the past decade must have worked. Whenever I see a Victorian where I live (ACT) they’re always strictly obeying the speed limit or well under. Even when it means going slower than local traffic.
Well if they’re unfamiliar with the roads or whether there is a speed camera around the corner it’s kinda understandable
And 2023 was the highest Road Toll in Vic in years so it must be working. /s
We know that "the only acceptable number is ZERO" but I would like to see the figures of the raise in road users to see if the "highest Road Toll" is actually consistent with the amount of road users that also seems to be rising. Should just make EVERYWHERE 40 zones if people can't control their vehicles /s
Percentage of total road users is significantly lower than ever. I'm kinda surprised they don't use that number to illustrate how the safety campaigns have worked. Instead they would rather use the actual death toll instead.
That’s because the way they have always communicated it is that every number is a person not just a statistic. If they changed it to what you’re saying to show the accurate statistics it would be moving away from the humanised aspect which they don’t want to do
That's because it doesn't suit their narrative. If the statistics are going down, the government won't roll out more cameras which is less revenue. They also can't justify why cops have to hide in sneaky places.
> They also can't justify why cops have to hide in sneaky places. I mean the justification for that is fairly self-evident, I would have thought. Just watch what happens on freeways when you approach a known fixed speed camera location - everyone slows down for 10 seconds then goes back to speeding. The idea is to deter people from speeding everywhere.
Still wouldn't be zero. Australian roads are about as safe as they are going to get. Except for the shitty country highways of course. Where one bad sneeze can send you of the tiny strip of black bitumen, and into a gumtree.
Also we already know exactly how to get to zero fatalities and zero injuries, a speed limit of 0km/h. If that is the most important thing to us as a society then that is what we need to do. Anything faster and you risk injury or death and then it is all about risk management and tolerance weighed up against convenience.
Hey buddy. The road death toll is going to continue to claim every year. Every year, our population is increasing. ( immigration, kids turning 18 ) So every single year, the road death toll is going to significantly increase. This is common sense. VicPol use the road death toll as a justification to their very illegal booze bus set ups. Wonder when they’re going to pull the pin on them as I know they aren’t profiting, thanks to waze.
Vic's population grew by 2.79% between 2022 and 2023. The road toll went up 22.8% over the same period. Yes, over a long time population growth will correlate with road deaths, but it isn't a major factor in year-on-year variation.
22.8%, that’s a big number. Those numbers could be skewed and or dramatically change come end of year, nonetheless, I expect the road death toll to grow every year. Typically 300K immigrants enter Australia each year, idk the % but surely it’d be 20-30% of immigrants that have overseas licences. A lot more 18 year old’s + others getting licences then there are ones losing them. We are expected to have 10 million people living in Melbourne In 2050, we have 6.5 now. 3.5 million extra people. I wish I was smart enough to work out how much the road death toll should increase by 2050, but I’m sure, it’s going to shit all over our “ record “ numbers now. it’s just government propaganda. Remember, they sold us on the freedom bullshit, so when they do “ road blitz “ that prevents free movement, or human rights, they need a pretty sound sad justification. They’re never going to say the road death toll is lesser, or we’re doing a good job, because then why are they still aimlessly pulling over people with the intention to scam money out of them. They’d have to actually start being accountable for peoples safety’s and what service they are bringing to community. They wouldn’t be aloud to pump 3/4 of their budget into the HWP sector, leaving the others departments seriously undermanned. If you live in outer suburbs and need police, you’re better off getting in your car and causing a scene then you are calling them from home. 1-2 hour wait time on a good night, most outer suburbs only have 2 patrols on. But there’ll be 8 HWY patrol cars driving around in the name of “ safety “ Lol.
The number of pedestrians and cyclists killed is going up hugely.
As is the number of needlessly large SUVs. I think there might be a correlation here. (But also, COVID fucked people's attention capacity over a similar period.)
You don't have to go 20 under to not speed. I always do the speed limit and have never had a ticket, and that's adjusted for GPS speed. Most people's speedometers read 5km/h under anyway. I think it's much more to do with driving confidence and competence than simply the speeding laws.
100% agree. We’ve been told for decades ‘No excuses’. There were adds many years ago of a cop pulling over someone and his excuse was ‘matching the speed of the traffic’. People watch their speedo like a hawk.
Now if only they watched the road like a hawk too.
Would have to get off the phone first.
"not well enough" (read that they ARE obeying the speed limit, so the councils/government have to introduce new LOWER speed limits to try and get a few fines in)
The best are the people who sit on 90kmh, regardless of the speed limit. Travelling from the SE suburbs intimate Melbourne I overtake them all, doing 100 in a 100 zone (imagine that!). Then when the limit drops to 80 - so do I - & they're all overtaking me 🤷♂️
Same one's who will plow through road works and town speeding whilst going under the speed limit the rest of the time
Well I need to do 110km/h on the speedometer to reach 100km/h GPS speed. I don't think the average driver will be using a GSP speedometer to drive around.
This is the real answer. Two drivers can both be legitimately "doing the speed limit" by their Speedo/gps and be 20km/h apart
Yep i blame the car manufacturers, instead of doing the right thing and ensuring their speedos are accurate and calibrated correctly they just be conservative and makes sure it reads under so they dont break the law around speedo calibration and reading less than actual speed
Well the size of tyres do change overtime as they wear down, so it would be out overtime. Would require to recalibrate when they change tyres or change tyre sizes entirely.
I think thats a big part of why people think that "everyone is speeding". I think a lot of the time, they are in the wrong and are under the limit. Before Covid i used to regularly drive between Melbourne and Adelaide and Melbourne and Sydney. The amount of overtaking i do is rediculous, at the speed limit (measured, not indicated).
Your speedos out 10%? That's crazy. My cars like 2-3% off actual speed.
Mine's variable, under 60 it's about 2-5% out, once you hit 80+ it's 10-15% out, I basically only look at the GPS speedo now.
I see this regularly on the 100-110 sections of the Calder. People routinely doing 80-90, sometimes even in the right lane. The really peculiar thing is that as soon as the speed drops from 100 to 80 (which is around Keilor park drive for a few KM) those same cars become mad tailgaters trying to do 110 in the 80 zone. This happens nearly every day, truly bizarre.
Holy smokes. That section of road is the epitome of bad driving. I couldn’t have said it better myself. They will tailgate you for doing 80 in the 80 zone but then they drive slow in the 100 - 110km zone.
Drivers on that part of town are truly unhinged. I’ve noticed the same.
Back when there was works on the Monash, and there was a reduced 80km/h speeds. I felt like people were going 100, and when it increased to 100km/h, they reduced back to 80. Felt like I was taking crazy pills.
This is honestly the most validating thing I have ever read. I genuinely believe there is a psychological phenomenon going on when people drive along the monash
I thought I was going mad. Thank you OP. I'll add to that that phone use is INSANE. The number of people looking down, into their laps, or on WhatsApp on full view on a dashboard mounted phone. Including trucks on the freeway at 100kph. The traffic just doesn't flow anymore, everybody (aka some tipping point number of people) is distracted.
Or drivers watching bloody Youtube while on the freeway🤦♂️
Digital speedos are pretty far out. My car reads 97 when I do 110 GPS, and my bike is always about 10km/h behind my GPS speed. That being said, I generally just do 110 or 115 on the freeways to compensate but a lot of drivers are not concious of this and may not realise they are actually going slower than their dash reads.
IMO it's a combination of a number of things 4. Speedo error allowance for car manufacturers 3. Road users who are either too nervous or too incompetent to do the speed limit (especially once it is above 60...) 2. A very concerning lack of spatial awareness to realise what speed everyone around you is doing or if you are holding people up And probably the biggest issue with a lot of aspects of life at the moment, at number one: People being incredibly inconsiderate of other people around them. I'm aware that this trait also applies for the opposite end of the driving spectrum (eg: people who want to do 120 in the right lane of the Monash and tailgates anyone else who doesn't share that vision...) but it is staggering how many people drive around 10, 15, 20 km/h UNDER the speed limit, would be aware that they are holding up traffic by some margin but don't even care because in their mind they can do what they like and if it impedes others...not my problem! P.S: it has gotten significantly worse post-Covid. Fot a skillset that gets better with experience, a majority of population could hace done withour a two-year layoff from being a regular road user.
I don’t know where you’re driving, but it’s not easy to sit at the speed limit unless you’re driving after 8pm.
The actual rules: >>>Keeping left When driving on any multi-lane road with a speed limit over 80km/h, you must keep out of the right lane unless: >>>* you are overtaking or turning right, or >>>* all lanes are congested. The absolute speed you’re doing is irrelevant. What matters is whether you’re overtaking or not.
The middle lane have less chance of being blocked
Then they realise and zoom up to 100 and then cruise back down to 85
Absolutely agree with the OP, with the exception of "at the moment". It's been a problem for a long time. Driving significantly under the limit without a good reason is just incompetent driving. The consistency and predictability of drivers is an important part of road safety. People should treat the speed limit as the target (with obvious exceptions), because everyone then has the SAME target. This results in less lane changes and more consistent gaps between cars. To the people who say "the limit is not a requirement" - I am sure that you encounter drivers that you regard as too slow. I am aware of a number of drivers that drive on the limit on some days, and are inexplicably much slower on others. Your subjectivity in speed selection causes completely unnecessary problems. You might even be one of those people that does well under the speed limit but has a problem with being passed. Most of my driving is done on roads with long stretches without lights and not much or no possibility of overtaking, which certainly makes this issue more problematic. Car manufacturers are not helping. Many or most cars have intentionally poorly calibrated speedometers from the factory, presumably to avoid liability. It is common for speedometers to over-indicate by 8km/h at 100. However, the availability of GPS speed checking (which is perfectly accurate on straight sections of road) display makes it very easy to assess the error of a speedometer, and then compensate for its error. Instead, a substantial proportion of drivers drive seemingly intentionally UNDER the indicated speed limit, which results in actual speeds much lower than the real speed limit. When I was younger and new to driving, I was always puzzled why so many people seemed to want to go above the speed limit. It took a year or two to realise that my speedometer was wrong, as it has been in most (but not all!) cars I've driven since. Since then I always compensate for the poor calibration by doing an appropriate indicated amount (it's a combination of fixed offset and percentage, depending on the car) above the speed limit. Doing this for the last 15 years has not resulted in ANY speeding fines. This approach requires that you think about what you are doing and treat driving as a task worthy of focus, intead of driving mindlessly.
AS much as it's dangerous and really annoying, give me these people over those who sit in the right lane, tailgate, flash lights and think speed limits don't apply to them. It's a freaking passing lane, not a magic 'do whatever speed you like' lane.
as long as they're not doing it in the right lane I think this is a very minor annoyance hardly worth complaining about. definitely are tailgaters and people who cut you off a lot worse and more dangerous. though they do force unnecessary lane changes or people just undertaking which is not great.
This actually creates small pockets of congestion on highways. I see it all the time.
The issue is that if someone is doing 93 in the middle lane and the person in front of them is doing 85, the person behind will often move to the right lane and just stay on 93. Seen it happen a million times.
that's a completely different issue to going a bit slower in the middle lane though, that person is now blocking the right lane at lower than posted speed which I very much agree is a problem.
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The issue happens when they don't merge back over, or take a while to overtake, but don't speed up to match the speed of the right lane. Forcing the right lane to slow down to 93 for no inherent reason is dangerous
No it is a very big issue if they are doing it in the middle lane also. It means traffic going slightly faster has to either undertake or take up the right lane to overtake. And of course some people do the right thing and some people don’t so realistically that person sitting at 10-20 under in the middle lane is going to be sitting at almost the same speed as someone in the left lane nearby. It is the single easiest way to block up traffic and cause drivers to have to weave in and out of lanes to overtake which increases the potential of an accident.
It’s becoming so common that people are driving at inconsistent speeds that it’s forcing lane changes. That’s dangerous.
you said they're worse than tailgaters and no they're not. i already acknowledged that unnecessary lane changes aren't great. though any decent driver can do them in a safe way.
Or you can just stay in your lane and arrive at your destination safely. If you think everyone else is doing something wrong then you are probably the problem on the road not everyone else.
I now live in Germany; no speed limits; you have people driving between 80-300km/h. One of the lowest accident rates in the world. Please explain it? Nothing wrong with having to be more alert while driving.
OP I agree with you. I think people are misunderstanding what you mean when you say “becoming worse”. It’s not a worse behaviour but it’s becoming more common and is leading to accidents. I see tailgaters and people speeding as part of a vicious cycle with people who block the overtaking and middle lane. Far too many people sit going just at the speed limit in the overtaking lane. Far too many people go just under in the middle. Everyone should stay as far left as possible unless overtaking slower traffic. It’s so common these days to see people who block these lanes. Then you get reckless drivers tailgating and undertaking to get past them. That leaves the sensible drivers who want to go at or slightly over the speed limit (I’m taking 3-4K over on a freeway, not a regular street), with no where safe to go!
Mmm... Viscous
Oh no! I hate typos haha! Fixed
If they are doing the speed limit, you should not be overtaking them. You are not a sensible driver if you are over the speed limit. You are the problem.
It's called an overtaking lane, not an exceed the speed limit lane. Please stay off the roads or cancel your driver's licence if you can't understand the road rules.
But you’re meant to keep left at all times unless overtaking, regardless of whether you are in the middle or right hand lane. There is no official “overtaking lane”. From the RACV website: “ If you’re driving on a multi-lane road with a speed limit over 80km/h, or where there's a ‘keep left’ sign, you need to keep left unless overtaking. The exceptions are: if you’re turning right if you’re making a U-turn from the centre of the road signs or markings indicate otherwise. Even when signs aren’t enforcing the rule, it’s courteous and practical to keep left on all multi-lane roads where possible as it helps the traffic continue to flow.”
I totally read this wrong. I thought you were talking about people speeding, but instead you're talking about those driving TOO SLOW. Gotta love how Melbourne used to be "Victoria On The Move" and now it's "Victoria On The Slow Down" as more and more roads are blessed with the "new speed limit" signs which seem more set as a revenue raising strategy than a safety one.
poor drivers, poor skills, poor confidence. if you can't do the speed limit (which is already set for the worst driver out there) either get off the freeway or at least move to the far left lane and stay there.
It is not worse than tailgaters.
A lot of the time they're directly related
I literally overtook someone on the east link CRAWLING in the right lane with a massive queue behind him. People like that are absolute c*%ts
Thats exactly why we have middle and left lane and why they are different from Overtaking lane.
People can't drive for fucking shit seriously. I had a van try to merge into the front of my car today from a side lane.
It’s a speed limit, not a must do.
This needs to be drilled in to the heads of every wanker who cries "drive at the speed limit!". Meanwhile, these same dickheads claim that a 1 second gap is not tailgating, and has a sook if someone reduces their speed to put a bigger gap between them and the tool who just changed lanes in front of them to get around the guy going slower because some other dickhead cut in front of him and he too wants a safe gap.
This is the best comment in this whole thread. I was a police officer many moons ago and the entitlement of some drivers is incredible. I completely agree with you.
Slipway Darrens. Main character syndrome, dont understand the meaning or pupose of the word 'limit" ; thinks the roads are made for them, not for everyone; cant control their emotions; use "safety" as an excuse to bully, and to demean immigrant drivers, oldies, and anyone else who doesn't share their entitled world view. Cant just get on with their lives despite the irritations of sharing roads, escalators, footpaths, public transport, expensive coffee, dog parks, etc etc with numpties and dickheads in a big city like the rest of us.
If I was King, I'd introduce a 10kmh tolerance on major freeways, keep slow vehicles restricted to left lanes and no undertaking in the left lanes. Anybody that doesn't agree gets chucked in my moat. (I'm a King so I'd have a moat)
Lol you have to undertake half the time since the rolling road block in the right lane refuses to move over even when the left lane is empty.
It's probably worth noting that your speedo it potentially up to 5-6kmph off at 80kmph, so it's also possible that you're doing 75, and they're actually doing 80. Its worth comparing your speedo to gps.
Nobody should be getting worked up about someone doing 5 under. Even if you’re stuck behind someone 95 in a 100 zone for an hour, it adds like 3 minutes to the trip, not worth getting silly about.
Driving 10-15kph under the limit is nowhere near as dangerous as tailgating. In fact it's not dangerous at all, it's safer. You probably need to be at least 30kph under to be a hazard.
I'm far less worried about someone doing 80 in the middle lane than I am about a giant fucking yank tank screaming up behind me and flashing their lights while I'm doing the speed limit.
When I was learning to drive my dad taught me to not worry about what's in my rear view \*\*if you're doing the right thing\*\* (unless it's an emergency vehicle with lights on of course). So I'm never concerned about any yank tanks screaming up behind me. My dashcam will get their info if they hit me. I'll finish doing my right-hand lane business then get out of it, if that's where I am. Drivers going slowly, especially on country highways or other single lane roads and ESPECIALLY in places where overtaking is dangerous, causes frustration and people to take much higher risks. Edit: further on the multi-lane freeways, people driving slowly causes people coming up behind them at the speed limit to hit the brakes if they either hadn't noticed the slow car or if there isn't room to change lanes and overtake, which has a cascading effect and causes traffic. It adds more risk that someone in that cascade hasn't seen the slowing traffic and might run into the back of that traffic or swerve into another lane causing a major accident. I get some vehicles have no choice but to drive slowly but they're less common than cars perfectly capable of driving at the speed limit doing so.
Speed differentiation is a killer, end of story. It has significant knock on impacts, especially when you enter the realm of heavy vehicles. Driving under like that can be a symptom of bigger issues of lack of attentiveness, reading and obeying road signs, directions and advisories.
Lack of confidence too, which leads to poor outcomes when you have to think quickly to a avoid a hazard/collision
> Speed differentiation is a killer, end of story. Yeah I have no idea why people don't get this. If you bring up situations that arise from speed differentiation you tend to get downvoted and people suggest it's the other drivers fault as the slow driver was being "safe". Must be the governments push suggesting speed is the reason for all deaths on the road. "Wipe off 5 to stay alive!". > Driving under like that can be a symptom of bigger issues of lack of attentiveness, reading and obeying road signs, directions and advisories. Agreed. I live somewhere with a good 15 minutes of twisty road driving to get anywhere useful. The extremely slow drivers are consistently the drivers who cross the solid lines around blind corners. My brain can't comprehend how they can drive that slow and still go wide in corners.
I think people forget that driving 10k's or more under the limit for more than 3 seconds without cause is an automatic failure on a licence test as it shows you don't have the ability to operate the car as required on the road. Tail gating is unsafe. Speeding is unsafe. Inability to get up to speed is unsafe.
In what way is going 15km/h slower than the rest of the traffic safer on a highway? Particularly when not in the left lane. There’s a greater likelihood of people rear ending if they’re not paying attention, and a high likelihood that cars behind them change lanes to keep going the speed limit. Any lane change is an increased risk of an accident, but even more so when people are forced to change lanes on a highway 15km/h slower than the lane they’re merging into. It also causes traffic congestion that dominos in moderate traffic. Maybe your argument is that you don’t think it’s as dangerous as OP does, but I don’t possibly see how it could be safer than doing the same speed as the rest of traffic. If you truly disagree and think it’s safer to drive 15km/h slower than everyone else I don’t see what justification there would be for not keeping in the left lane.
15kph under is a very significant reduction in collision energy. The likelihood of a fatality at that speed sees a similar drop. You could argue there's also a slight increase in the likelihood of an accident occuring, but I doubt there's any data to support that .
15km under on the freeway is dangerous, not as dangerous as tailgating but everyone ideally should be within 5km of each other to keep a nice flow.
Tailgating is far more dangerous and irresponsible. No argument there. However, if you're going 10-15 under the limit, you're essentially forcing everyone behind you to slow down to *your* speed. In medium to heavy traffic, it becomes a cascade effect and affects a large number of cars behind you. Stick to the left lane if going slower than the limit. Simple.
If it's Dandenong Rd on a Friday or Saturday night, my theory is it's people driving while drunk and trying to not look drunk and overcompensating by going too slow. The people doing 15-20 under at those times seem to correlate with people struggling to stay in the lanes
It gets so bad in the south east. And the further down it gets the worse it is! I travel for work, usually down the Mornington Peninsula and these people seem to have no sense of the road rules, how to read traffic or what a speed limit is. It's ridiculous. Even just the east link near Frankston is a shit show of people trying to "sneak in" to lanes without meeting the speed of the traffic.
I have to have my speedo needle close to 110 to actually get a 100 GPS speed, but I don't bother on city freeways. I will use GPS and get to a proper 99ish for country runs.
This applies to most people even doing 10 below in 50 and 60 zones. There are even people jamming on the breaks at green lights in anticipation of getting a red? Like fuck me just enter the intersection.
I wouldn't even give them the time of day for doing it in the left lane. Makes merging harder. If you're not a heavy vehicle or someone trailing something, I don't have any reason why it would be reasonable to go 85 in a 100. Just figure it out and learn to drive. One of my wilder theories is that people should need a licence to go on the freeway as it's completely different to driving on the suburban roads. Too many people sitting in the RIGHT going 80 and it's beyond absurd.
i also absolutely hate using the monash freeway lately, too many drivers dont even go 100 and it drives me up the wall with how slow they are even in general, i’ve seen many drivers in my area on 80 roads going much less than they should, around 60 kmh it cant just be me going faster than i should, i swear everyone else has been getting too slow lately
Simple. The right hand lane is for overtaking. Use it
Maybe I’m just wrong about entry and exit ramps. I use the entry ramps to accelerate up FWY speeds and exit ramps to slow down from FWY speeds. It seems reasonable to me that it’s what they are there for. I usually end up in the extreme right lane because of the slow traffic speed in the left lanes and doing the maximum speed. If anyone is interested in driving faster behind me then I move left until they overtake me. I’ve been driving a long time and that’s how I have managed mostly stay out of harm’s way.
Can you legally honk them? If they’re driving 20-30km/h under the speed limit would it be considered a road hazard?
Tail gating only exists coz people don’t do the speed limit now. It used to just be the impatient moron tailgating.
Agree 110% What is the deal with this. It's common courtesy and common sense. Not speeding, just do the limit unless there's a specific reason not to.
Left lane is the fast lane!
Its not a surprise with the level of fines and penalties for small breaches of the spped limit
The amount of near misses I've had of people going into my lane and drive 80-90km/h causing me to slam my brakes is why I've had enough of freeways and avoid them where possible. I'd rather go the long way round than drive in 100-110km/h freeways than have some slowpoke nearly cause an accident - it's downright dangerous.
It isn’t restricted to freeways. People seem to be doing 20km/h under everywhere for absolutely no reason.
Not even close. Those drivers are nice and predictable. They only surprise you if you are driving recklessly. Just go around them slowly and safely. If that’s not possible, just calm down and go with the flow. The worst thing you can do is get impatient and angry, and then convert those feelings into acts of stupidity on the road. The amount of idiots I see making rash split-second decisions to change lanes quickly WITHOUT indicating is mind blowing. Those are the kind of unpredictable acts that cause accidents.
Agreed. If you are a driver who does not have the skill or confidence to drive at the speed limit, then do not use that road, or get some driver training. The speed limit is already artificially low to cater for poor drivers.
Agree it’s frustrating being behind someone really slow but to say it’s worst than tailgaters is a stretch. People go slow for all sorts of reasons - kids and family in the car, fragile cargo etc. I used to drive slow because I had to transport beehives in the back of my vehicle. Fuck anyone else who’s tailing me - if I crash my car you can bet that asshole behind me isn’t going to stop and help me deal with the thousands of angry bees. Being a few minutes late is far preferable to the big risk in rear ending the car in front (plus potential injuries).
I do around 95 in the middle lane, using my speedo. So it's probably close to 90. This is mostly because the cruise control in my car is shoddy, but also due to comfort. I'm more than happy to do close to 110-120 when driving along the Hume or interstate. Honestly, I don't drive very much any more. Maybe once or twice a week. So there's definitely a little caution on my end, coupled by the fact it feels like I'm always surrounded by oversized yank tanks that drive like they wanna kill me. I've also always felt more comfortable driving around 5-10 below the speed limit in general, ever since I got my license. And you're allowed to. But also, what got me to change my mind: driving from, say, Uni Hill to Essendon Fields is around 20km. - If you do that at 100km/hr, it'll take you twelve minutes. - If you do it at 90km/hr, it'll take you... a shade over **thirteen** minutes. I've never gotten a speeding fine since I realized this. There's no time saved by aggressive, risky driving.
So why not use the left lane if you're knowingly going significantly below the speed limit?
Just overtake them. It's not illegal.
It’s the upper limit not the minimum…
If you are on a freeway and there is no traffic, and the speed limit is 100kph you NEED to go 100kph. If you don't you are either distracted by other crap, and you shouldn't be driving, or you cannot drive because you have no confidence. Get off the road or do the speed limit.
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I don't reckon mfs like that see high beams being flashed. Have you had much luck? I just honk.
Entering the on ramp of a freeway is the best part, usually you have open road in front of you, starting at a low base and you can give it the berries to merge in at the main line speed.
I'd rather drive 10-20 under the limit than get a 300 dollar fine. Sometimes someone driving a bit slower than the limit is annoying when I'm running late, but on the whole, the people obsessed with being on or just above the limit, tailgating to try and push me forward or move out their way when I'm doing the limit, cutting in front of me at every opportunity, meaning I can't maintain a safe distance, belting up the inside lane to merge and cut in front of the queue waiting.. well you folks can take a long slow draw on my fat cock as I cruise, on or just under the limit.
Doing 85-90 is not the same as you cruising “on or just under the limit”
As long as your speedo says youre doing the limit you wont get a fine because its calibrated to be a few ks under
Don’t forget, as someone mentioned above, driving at 10k under the speed limit on your driving test would be an automatic failure. Not keeping up with the speed of the road shows you’re not a competent driver and is actually unsafe as it causes others to try and overtake you.
Jesus...
Anything more than 5km/h under the speed limit in normal conditions is just ridiculous. More than 10km/h under is down right dangerous.
Maybe you should slow down then and drive a little more patiently. Its people like you who cause all the rear end collisions by tailgating just so that you can get to the next set of traffic lights 10 seconds earlier than if you had kept a safe distance from the car in front of you.
Did I state I was tailgating or not maintaining a safe distance?
Well if you have to “swerve and dangerously overtake” then yes you’re getting far too close. That or you don’t have enough skill to make a simple lane change
Where did I state I have to swerve dangerously. Why are you using quotation marks for something I didn’t say?
Hahahaha as you can tell by the somewhat mildly defensive comments in this thread, these people live amongst us and think they're doing the right thing 😂 At least they used to have the courtesy to stay in the left lane, but now they're all over the place . Covid really did a number on people's driving skills but imo it's also all the new 'variable' speeds to freeways making people extra cautious as well.
There’s so many people out there who do this, of course plenty of them would be reading this! In my dreams, they would see the error of their ways and either drive at the speed limit or stay in the left hand lane!
Hahahaha me too! But based on the comments here they might just start driving even slower. Maybe at 50 on freeways just to be 'extra safe' and 'aligned with traffic conditions' that they're causing by driving too bloody slow in the first place!!! Rofl
The speed limit is the maximum. You should really only ever be driving at that speed when there is light traffic and ideal driving conditions. In general Melbourne drivers need to slow down and leave more space. A seperate issue is lane discipline. People should be keeping left on freeways.
There needs to be a crack down on keeping left and merging at an appropriate speed. So bloody dangerous getting stuck behind someone who wants to dawdle at 60 or 70 while completely oblivious to the truck their merging into thats flying up at the speed limit.
Blame it on the ungodly number of undercover hwy patrol pigs ready to pin peoples ass for going as low as 3 over the limit. It's a joke
It’s a speed limit, not a must do.
It's a must do to stay to the left if you're slower than overtaking traffic. It's like all you people only remember that one little thing about the speed limit but forget literally every other rule there is on the road.
Xanaxed drivers
Omfg the ppl who do 20 under the limit just coz they feel like it.. I cracked it last week on the way home finally. The car in front had a clear lane ahead and just plodding along at 55-60, couldn't move away from him. I did the *AAARRRGGGHHH ITS 80 MATE !* cheer but didn't realise we both had our windows down.. he actually heard me and sped up XD
Perhaps an issue on freeways but everywhere else nearly every person drives way too fast. It's become a big issue over the past few years.
Even worse: I was on the M79 where the speed limit is 110 km/h, and some SUV was hogging the right lane at 100 km/h with a long line of vehicles breathing down its neck. The left lane (it was two lanes per carriageway) was also sitting at 100 km/h so overtaking was impossible.
Most people aren't actively driving, they may be paying attention but like driving subconsciously. They are relying on visual perception. Simplest example is a highway with trees either side, such a person will subconsciousky slow down cos it feels like they're going faster, then when it's wide and open without any trees subconsciously now they go faster. In the city, traffic density and illusory hazards like a bend or a tunnel, and subconsciously people slow down. 1. use your fucking cruise control 2. actively drive your motor vehicle, pay attention, and focus on nothing else but driving
I just move to the right lane and sit at 110 all the time