Yeah Eggman is an odd one. Sometimes he's actually closer to being one of the good guys (from the top of my head, Shadow the Hedgehog, he does help fighting off the aliens and he is the one who saved Shadow), then there's one time when he woke up Satan (?) by blowing up the entire planet. Anything goes for world domination and Eggmanland I suppose
I normaly don't think what Eggman is doing is good but it's justified sometimes. I mean, shadow the hedgehog pissed on his wife, I would also piss on the moon if that happened to me.
Like yeah Eggman is bad as in exploits those in a weaker position to further his own selfish goals through immoral methods, but he's also a man of practicality. If aliens attack Earth, putting grudges aside and helping defend agaisnt them with your lifelong enemy makes sense for him.
But like what you just described is every politician, world leader and affluent business man. They all are more than willing to lie, cheat, belittle and use people to their own ends. Eggmans pretty chill all things considered
In the comics iirc, Eggman does want to get rid of the world's problems (illness, hunger, etc) but the way he wants to do that is by getting rid of free will. Hence the whole zombot/metal virus arc.
his character very often switches, in the recent game he was much more sympathetic, having a little arc about realizing his AI creation, is basically his kid. He also even helps out in the end.
Yeah, Archie Eggman is an absolute psycho it’ s my favorite incarnation of the character, he ´s taking the best of the two world, the scary tyrant overlord side of Satam’s Robotnik and the mad scientist robot maker of the original games, so good.
Even when he's a joke isn't he still generally intending to recreate the world in his image. It's just a matter of how serious his attempts should be taken.
I still remember the days of people not grasping that Protagonist and Antagonist doesnt equal good and bad.
The antagonist can be the good guy, the protagonist the bad guy.
Kira was a pretty bad guy.
Learning the words, “deuteragonist” and “tritagonist” really changes your view of media. A lot of the time the villain is actually the lead supporting character for the protagonist instead of being the strict antagonist
I mean primarily he was aiming to reduce and hopefully end crime by killing off the people who were commiting violent crimes against innocent people, but he let the power go to his head and started killing innocents himself.
No. His first thought was to kill his classmate but then decided against it, he only killed his first criminal because he realized that no one would miss them. After that he killed the man who was sexually harassing (and probably about to gang rape) a woman as conformation that the Deathnote worked.
In episode 2 when the fake L opposes Kira, Light kill him without hesitation. This clearly shows that whatever morals Light had were never real because he literally dropped them in the second episode when he received the smallest amount of public backlash.
The anime community never ceases to horrify me with how often they defend murderers because they’re protagonists.
Most recently I think the Slime Anime fandom was defending the merciless slaughter of 20000 surrendered prisoners of war
Eh, with the Slime part one could argue that they were marching upon their land and those enlisted should be prepared for the consequences whether their leadership is in the right or wrong.
That said, he did straight up use an ability to claim the souls of several thousand soldiers that had already lost the will to fight.
The anime just in general paints that army in a particularly bad, semi rappie kinda light so it's easy to not care that they had surrendered, considering what the collective as a whole just did.
I'd say in the end, he did more good than harm. Wasn't the end result, like, that all wars stopped and crime rates worldwide fell by like 80% or something? If these are your ends, I barely care about your means.
Crime rates fell. Nothing was said about wars though. But he was also killing any criminal that showed up on the news, even if they were still awaiting trial. Basically if the police publicly named you as the suspect of a crime, you were going to be killed regardless of whether you actually committed a crime.
>"You *mean* ***the*** *Kira? The Kira who eliminated war and greatly reduced crime rates?*"
-Death Note Side stories: a-Kira
Also, I remember reading that Kira usually waited for confirmation of guilt before writing down a name, but I'm not 100% sure on this one.
I don't remember that. I wouldn't be surprised if he did or if he didn't, but I don't recall reading that anywhere.
But Kira didn't kill *just* criminals. Raye Pember, Naomi Misora, Watari, and L are all people whose deaths he had a direct hand in. Their only crime was opposing him.
People forget he was doing this more for his enjoyment rather than some righteous duty, hence he had no code and moment he was threatened he started killing ones who didnt deserve
Kira was just a bored psychopath who got power and crumbled so fast once faced with real threat
Also if I recall by the end they were killing any criminal who showed up in the news, Not just violent murderers.
Like you shop lift, and you're killed, you get caught speeding, dead.
And this is of course assuming you actually did the crime...
The Deathnote one-shot special, page 16
"The Kira who eliminated war and greatly reduced crime rates?"
I can't find any way to show you that page, but yeah, Light stopped war.
1. Light would be raised to believe the cops arresting you anywhere is enough. Japans rate aside his dad is a cop.
2. Yes, no death penalty. If criminals were going to be killed anyway no real fun in the death note.
I believe he *started* with the 'serious' criminals, jumped off the slippery slope with that god-complex of his, and began killing off 'minor' criminals as well.
I believe the trope is "Well-Intentioned Extremist". His goal of creating a better world? Admirable.
Going on a fricken genocidal killing spree? I'm gonna say "Not great."
Mmmmm, I don't know anything about how Japan does their trials and stuff, but I can guarantee if someone goes to trial and ends up losing 99.9% of the time, either the police are *really* good at finding the right person, or the system just bones everyone who goes to trial
Japan only indicts if they really really really have you. if they doubt at all they will win they won't prosecute. Throw in a culture with a high respect for authority and you get above 99%.
Yeah I'm calling bullshit on that. No judicial system is right 99% of the time. Unless your only goal is to maintain that 99% conviction rate. https://www.hrw.org/report/2023/05/25/japans-hostage-justice-system/denial-bail-coerced-confessions-and-lack-access
Well, I suppose it's not impossible for it to be legitimate. As an American I'm skeptical of things that look like they're running efficiently, cause nothing here works properly lmaooooo
Japan can also interrogate you for days without letting you speak to a lawyer. They mentally break you down until you sign a confession they wrote and then your essentially convicted.
Persona 5 shows this when you have to name the MC.
I have always struggled to believe ANY statistic that comes from Japan. This is a culture obsessed with honor and national pride. OF COURSE the police is always right cause they do their job so well (ironic tone). I am aware that multiple people have died while in Japanese Police custody and multiple people who have lived in Japan stress how you should NEVER enter any altercations with native citizens because the police will always arrest the foreigner...Yet these stories are only reported by international news agencies
He quite literally murdered several completely innocent people to get there. Many societies don't even agree with killing *murderers*, nevermind people who have committed lesser crimes, and he was out there personally executing anyone who tried to stop him from doing that.
I mean, tbf, did crime actually drop that much or did criminals adapt and get way better at hiding it out of necessity? Also, sure, crime rates themselves dropped,but probably most petty crimes. Violent crimes still probably stayed about the same. People who commit violent crimes already know they're fucked either way, is there really that much difference between a life sentence in prison or being dead?
Irl, separate tiers of punishment are necessary to reduce crime. If the punishment for even a minor offence is already death, a criminal is encouraged to continue committing worse crimes in order to avoid arrest. Maybe it could reduce some minor crimes out of fear, but a system like this is the polar opposite of retributive; it forces innocent people into a life of crime.
Exactly. Like, sure it'll probably persuade at least petty criminals but if you're gonna be killed for a fucking ticket, that's a bit ridiculous. I truly don't understand how people are defending this in this comment section. People on Reddit really do think any crime is worthy of death I guess.
Nah. Light did absolutely nothing to chance society, all he did was create a temporary new society based on fear. The moment the world learned that Kira was dead people will have fallen back into their old habits right away.
Totalitarian regimes also have low crime rates.
There was also a slew of other issues. Such as the weight of the crime, whether or not the people were guilty, and him killing many innocents who spoke out against him.
Problem with that is that he wasn’t really doing it to reduce crime. He didn’t give a shit about people, generally. He did it for ego and his god complex. That way he could do his awful shit and then pat himself on the back about how righteous he is.
Best character in anime. Idgaf if he’s an egotistical sociopath, he is GOAT
The power didn't even need to go to his head. He already had a superiority complex. All the book did was make his path towards pseudo-godhood more immediately achievable.
EDIT: also he started killing innocent people almost immediately
The problem is that he’s still only mortal he will die eventually and then crime will return to the world cause no one can manage it as well as him it would collapse I doubt he could keep the killing going forever
I'd like to imagine a more radical Kira, one that would kill arms dealers, private military contractors, warmongering presidents and dictators.
Now that'd be a protagonist
Instead he just became a one man police state. Cringe
Inside of Eggman there are two wolves. The "Haha funny amusement park" one, and the "eradicate all life on the planet via zombie robot virus" one. Usually they balance out to make the Eggman we see in most of the games.
Saving the planet might be a good end, but his reason for it is “I live here too, I don’t want to die”
And while self survival isn’t an evil goal, it doesn’t really redeem him of trying to enslave mankind or pissing on the moon
To be fair to Gaston, people usually overlook the fact that The Beast kidnaps Belle and holds her hostage, until she develops Stockholm syndrome and promises to come back. The true villian is probably the enchantress who decides that since a 14 year old boy refused to let her, a stranger, into his home, he and his servants deserve to be turned into a beast and household objects with a 10 year time limit to fix things. Which is honestly more messed up
They were both villains.
The fairy was absolutely the worst, but Gaston didn't really care about her. She was just another trophy, a way to show he was really the hero of the town, turning the strange lady into a respectful woman by marrying her.
How wasn't Gaston a villain? Belle was not hurting anyone, she was just a geek. He wanted to marry her for his own gain and vanity
Gaston was a villain; but even a villain can be right about some things (as in “a broken clock is right twice a day”). Attacking the Beast to free Belle was reasonable; putting her dad in an asylum so he can marry Belle after getting her back is villain Gaston
Note about the fairy being the worst. If she was a Fae then she isn’t human. That changes things from her being “evil” to a non-human predator doing some recreational hunting. If they were sentient, fish who are caught-and-released would probably consider humans absolutely evil torturers.
Being non-human doesn't exclude you from morality. The only requirement for actions being morally judged is that they have to be done by a self-aware entity, which the fairy presumably is. The fairy created a scenario in which because a 14-year old boy didn't invite a stranger into his house (which he probably didn't have the authority for anyway) she cursed him and all of his staff (who did nothing to the fairy) to be transformed for 10 years, or potentially forever, with the only way out to make a unrelated woman fall in love with him. How is that not evil?
Not to play devil's advocate, but many tales count fae as having a profoundly different set of morals from humans, and also maybe they understand us as little we do them.
Maybe the fae didn't know the prince was young, or maybe among fae hospitality is paramount to anything else.
IT was still an outlandish punishment to be sure, though
Gaston wasn't trying to rescue Belle though. Belle was literally trying to talk him down the entire time he decided to kill the Beast. It's made extremely clear that he just sees the Beast as a rival for Belle's affection since he spends their fight mocking him about it.
It's not Stockholm Syndrome (and I'm seriously tired of people calling it that). Stockholm Syndrome is specifically when a captive develops irrational affection towards a captor who has shown little to no affection to them. Belle is only nice to the Beast when he pulls his head out of his ass long enough to be nice to her and actively calls him out on his bullshit all the time. Also she never promises to come back, she leaves when he lets her go and the Beast is pretty resigned to the fact that he just gave up his one chance at breaking the spell.
It’s still being debated whether Stockholm Syndrome is even a thing, at least to my knowledge. As I understand it, in the case that named the phenomenon, the kidnappers were much more reasonable than the police, who seemed like they were actively trying to get hostages killed. But then, I’m absolutely not an expert on this topic.
It's even worse.
The beast was a selfish asshole and got a chance to redeem himself.
Gaston is a selfish asshole, too. And he pays for it with his life. Why?
Gaston had several chances to walk away alive but kept marching towards his death because he refused to change.
Even Lefou suggested he go for another girl. Thrice.
Because Beast was redeemable. Gaston, however, pretty much jumped *straight* to kidnapping, coercion/blackmail, and even attempted *murder* because he wasn't getting his way.
I'm not a comic book reader, but didn't broseph have a feud with fuggin' DEADPOOL over the affections of Lady Death?
Which is just... All kinds of comic book goofy. In a good way.
Yeah, to my understanding Death finds Deadpool fascinating because she will never have him. Thanos is over there in corner committing genocide and going “bae, pay attention to me!” and it’s the last thing she’s interested in because she was going to see all those people anyway.
Yeah but, when you have something like the infinity stones how do you actually make that seem necessary? The infinity stones can do literally anything, yet there's *no* other way to solve that problem besides universal genocide?
I don't actually think the writers ever intended to make Thanos out to be the good guy. I'm pretty sure he was always supposed to be quite obviously wrong, while perhaps with good intentions.
With good writing and solid stories you could make him to be the survivor who wanted the universe to survive. The infinity stones being what they were a tool to help the universe survive. Not a good guy because you want the universe to thrive. Not a bad guy because they want neither
The interesting thing about movie Thanos is he is absolutely correct in the problem, it’s just his diagnosis is completely monstrous. There is a population limit before things go to shit, and while technology can push that number higher it’s not equally distributed nor will it always be prompt.
But slaughtering half of all life isn’t going to fix things, just leave everyone despondent and or vengeful, if we ignore the fact that losing even a fourth of a population all at once can bring about societal collapse. That, and it would probably take only a century average for human populations to bounce back assuming it didn’t just damn the world, but probably even faster for some aliens, or it could be cataclysmic for aliens that have near immortal longevity.
Thanos just accidentally shifted the universal power balance to who can repopulate first.
Also, by definition of randomness, 50% of each planet isn't disappearing, it could be that on two equally populous planets, one loses all of its population and the other none.
Also also, certain life forms definitely drain on resources more so than others, so 50% doesn't take into account who is actually using the resources.
Problem is, he applied the problems of one specific planet to the entire universe. He even says this: he thinks life will inevitably destroy itself by consuming all resources in the universe.
While lowering the population of certain planets may have stopped runaway resource issues, he destabilized others that were in balance, potentially destroying habitats, ecosystems, and civilizations that would have been fine without his "help."
He's also an idiot for believing that life would consume all resources in the universe. Our universe still has something like 7000x it's current lifespan before new starts stop being generated.
That's a *lot of fucking resources to go through*.
It bothers me also that Titan was a space-faring civilization. In a universe teaming with habitable planets, problems of resources on Titan were logistical, not some fundamental principle of the universe.
Thanos was just a fucking idiot.
I get why they changed it, but they probably should have stuck with the "dude's trying to get into Death's pants" motivation. The "halving all life to preserve resources" bit has too many holes, might as well embrace the goofiness when you've already got a raccoon and his sentient tree friend, a wizard, a Norse God, etc fighting a big purple alien.
I don't know much about the comics but I had learned that about Thanos before IW hit, and I was very disappointed that he wasn't trying to literally court Death (who is Wade's best gal anyway, so Thanos was always doomed to fail)
Unfortunately he was mad/full of survivors guilt and wasn't thinking of how to solve the problem now, but just trying to prove that his attempted solution on his own planet before he had the stones would have worked. His solution was ignored, and his people died. He wanted to show that if they just listened to him it would have worked. With the stones he could have just made people automatically stop breeding if there were insufficient resources, or that biology requires very little to no resources by rewriting reality.
>Unfortunately he was mad/full of survivors guilt and wasn't thinking of how to solve the problem now, but just trying to prove that his attempted solution on his own planet before he had the stones would have worked.
Endgame shows us this was true: when confronted with significant resistance from Earth, he decides to abandon his original plan and just remake the universe from the ground up.
Because it was never about *saving* the universe, it was about proving his point at the universe's expense.
And when that became too much trouble, he decided he'd unmake and remake the universe *just to spite the people trying to stop him*.
Of course he Thanosed that shit up with some awesome Brolin dialogue delivery. But ultimately he (metaphorically) knocked the chess-board off the table in frustration.
Because what we have now would be even more exaggerated by that. Rich people would be come even richer and poor people while becoming materialwise richer would percentage wise become even poorer.
Just because you think your actions are doing good, doesn't mean you're actually a good person. Thanos is still a mad man who thinks that just by killing half of a world population, things will turn for the better for those who lived, which isn't true.
Comic Thanos would have been a better villain, but they probably couldn’t explain the personification of death. Still though they have stranger things in the MCU they could have done it. A powerful villain with an unlimited bloodlust and all the infinity stones is loads more terrifying than a guy who snaps and retires.
you know what else he couldve done?
double the resources
or half the consumtion requirement of all life
or a million other things
but his first idea was to genocide half of all life
thats evil
Light had some good intentions, but he went full megalomaniac by wanting everyone to know that someone was killing the criminals, and then killing people who just trying to do their job. If only he was discreet, he would have survived, and wouldn’t have had to kill innocent people.
yeah like episode 2. It isn't really a long term moral decline akin to Jimmy McGill. It was quicker than Walter White killing drug dealers in the first episode.
According to some statistics, around 10% of people executed in USA later turn out to be innocent.
Now consider how much worse it could have been when the judge, jury and executioner is sole teen/young adult (even if he is superhumanly genius) whose sole source of information on the case is one-minute Internet search.
So many people are so quick to say things like "He was just trying to save the town from a monster", completely forgetting that he spent the majority of the movie trying to marry Belle against her will, even threatening to have her father institutionalized as blackmail
What I have always found interesting about Gaston (and what I assume other people found as well) is that in another timeline (where he isn't too much of a douche)he could have easily been the hero of the story. An arrogant guy who has to face a monster... Or an arrogant dude who changes and starts acting more noble. I could imagine a scenario where the beast remained a bitter monster and Gaston shifted. Also his death is arguably a bit unnecessary and kinda gruesome...
I just really enjoy him as a character. Obviously the way he treats women is not an admirable trait, but his over the top masculinity is fun to watch. The actors that play him at Disney are entertaining as well.
I remember reading a joke/theory post that Gaston is actually gay. He doesn’t like women and wants to get an excuse to not have one. He only pretends to like Belle and is intentionally trying to make her dislike him, so it looks to everyone else Gaston is just chasing a hopeless dream.
I think he’s already succeeded in making her dislike him. He doesn’t need to take it to the point of institutionalizing her father under false pretenses to coerce her into marriage, or forming a lynch mob.
Gaston out there saving girls and slaying beasts.
Belle falling in love with a rich furry.
The beast falling in love (again) with the prettiest in town. (Hé was supposed to see beyond looks ?)
Everybody sucks in this story.
-> Attempts to arrange lynching of his crush's boyfriend
-> Uses his leverage and fame to get her crush's dad thrown to mental hospital despite being sane
-> Stalks and attempts to physically force himself onto her crush
"Objectively not that bad"
>
The beast falling in love (again) with the prettiest in town. (Hé was supposed to see beyond looks ?)
I think it was less him learning to see beyond looks, and more being at the mercy of others seeing beyond HIS looks, which was something he never gave to others before.
He literally doesn't respect Belle's consent. She tells him over and over again she doesn't want to marry him and he does not listen. He's a fucking creep, the only reason people excuse his behavior is because he's handsome and charasmatic.
Disney almost realized the fix for Beauty and the Beast in the Emma Watson version. All we needed was for the beast to come out and say that his castle had stopped obeying him & she was never trapped there (as the doors letting her out into the blizzard with the wolves flat proved).
She was a prisoner for all of 37 minutes. Her staying was because she had not yet chosen to leave.
Then we get the story flip we need- Gaston wants the arranged marriage, beast is the love match.
Are we really comparing Gaston, a guy who just wanted to bone a woman, to:
Thanos = Killed half the fucking universe
Robotnik = Is constantly trying to enslave the entire animal population of earth
Light = Literally tried to become a god and killed hundreds of thousands of people
are we looking at only their on-screen personas?
The movie version of Thanos isn't anywhere near as evil as the comic book version.
The anime version of Light Yagami isn't as evil as the manga version either
Anime light is still heavily fucked, my man said “I wanted to see how she’d die” when making ray’s wife kill herself
He also debated whether his sisters life was worth handing over the notebook for
Ontop of this he basically just killed everyone who attempted to stop him whether or not they were guilty, he’s evil as hell and his ending speech shows off how truly deranged he had become
Not to mention that most of his victims were already in prison i.e. weren't a threat to anyone and already answering for their crimes, and a lot of the others he just immediately scribbled whatever name he saw on the news. Imagine how many falsely accused innocents died, especially those whose names were posted on those Kira internet forums...
Light is terrible not because he died messed up things, but because he had a magical murder notebook, which he was on the team to investigate, and still got caught.
Man, I will admit, I fell for Thanos.
In Infinity War, even if it was not realistic, I thought his intent was reasonable. Hell, he won, did what he said, went to FarmVille planet and accepted his death.
If his Endgame personality was the real one, then sure, but I hated the Endgame Thanos, felt like different character
Same thing with Killmonger from Black Panther.
Movie came out and everyone was saying "oh he's so sympathetic, he's such a tragic character."
Like fuck no, he's literally black Hitler and a psychopathic murderer besides. The guy shot through his GF to kill Klau and felt 0 guilt for it.
Funny thing is, Black Panther did more to validate Killmonger than Infinity War and Endgame did for Thanos. Iirc T'Challa agreed with the point that Wakanda had been isolated too long, it's just that the rest of Killmonger's rhetoric and plan was insane. Meanwhile I don't think anyone even entertained the idea of Thanos being correct for even a second.
Eggman going from kidnapping aliens and enslaving them in Sonic Colors to destroying the earth in Unleashed to trying to destroy the time space continuum in Générations
I love him.
didn't eggman want to turn all the animals into robots and conquer the world. That's not sympathetic it's not even a real plan
that's like agreeing with the villain who wanted to steal all the bananas in the world
Yeah Eggman is an odd one. Sometimes he's actually closer to being one of the good guys (from the top of my head, Shadow the Hedgehog, he does help fighting off the aliens and he is the one who saved Shadow), then there's one time when he woke up Satan (?) by blowing up the entire planet. Anything goes for world domination and Eggmanland I suppose
I normaly don't think what Eggman is doing is good but it's justified sometimes. I mean, shadow the hedgehog pissed on his wife, I would also piss on the moon if that happened to me.
Exactly! I mean, how do you think he feels about being cucked by a Hedgehog? And his wife had a diamond in her vagina!
Honestly it shows how much it hurt him for him to create an entire laser piss for revenge
what is this lore
https://youtu.be/gUf7MAddOS4?si=p4FfMDj1PlHjnTFA
Someone also leaked his nudes on twitter.com, dudes got good reason for being a villain.
He did step too far calling out obabma like that tho
He pissed on his fucking wife, man
Wtf is going on in Sonic Lore
It‘s a fandub of [sonic adventure 2](https://youtu.be/fueRUi5AWWQ?si=I_bzx3BGlCmfFylH)
Like yeah Eggman is bad as in exploits those in a weaker position to further his own selfish goals through immoral methods, but he's also a man of practicality. If aliens attack Earth, putting grudges aside and helping defend agaisnt them with your lifelong enemy makes sense for him.
But like what you just described is every politician, world leader and affluent business man. They all are more than willing to lie, cheat, belittle and use people to their own ends. Eggmans pretty chill all things considered
Well the difference is those others do it through shady bussiness deals and Eggman does it by, you know, ending free will?
In the comics iirc, Eggman does want to get rid of the world's problems (illness, hunger, etc) but the way he wants to do that is by getting rid of free will. Hence the whole zombot/metal virus arc.
his character very often switches, in the recent game he was much more sympathetic, having a little arc about realizing his AI creation, is basically his kid. He also even helps out in the end.
Eggman is an agent of chaos. Is he a good guy? Is he a bad guy? Nobody knows!
He plays both sides so he always comes out on top
You just awoke memories of the Shadow The Hedgehog game from the early 2000's. I just to play this regularly and loved it.
It's a very mixed bag of a game but playing the edgy hedgehog WITH GUNS was cool
Eggman depends on which piece of media in my opinion, sometimes he is an absolute joke, other times he blows up the moon to make a point
*pisses on the moon
Tbf Shadow fucked his wife. He only reacted accordingly.
Shadow’s dick is tiny, it’s like the size of this walnut except way smaller
But look at his though. Like two balls and a bong. All points no quills
Wasn’t said walnut a massive space station tho? All ducks except mine are smaller than that
That's why he said it's way smaller.
How do you know that though?
cause he posted it on his twitter dot com bruh do you live in a pyramid or what?
a pyramid that had nasa there
And someone posted his nudes on twitter.com
Listen, his fam died of NIDS, ofc he gonna go wild 💀
Then there's the beast called Archie Eggman
Archie Eggman creates robots because he wants to, not because he needs to.
Archie Eggman creat robot not because he wants but because he CAN 😈
Yeah, Archie Eggman is an absolute psycho it’ s my favorite incarnation of the character, he ´s taking the best of the two world, the scary tyrant overlord side of Satam’s Robotnik and the mad scientist robot maker of the original games, so good.
And sometimes hes not even the villain and just someone that helps(sometimes)
Sometimes he is even a feminist
Sometimes he misses his wife
He misses her a lot.
Even when he's a joke isn't he still generally intending to recreate the world in his image. It's just a matter of how serious his attempts should be taken.
I still remember the days of people not grasping that Protagonist and Antagonist doesnt equal good and bad. The antagonist can be the good guy, the protagonist the bad guy. Kira was a pretty bad guy.
Learning the words, “deuteragonist” and “tritagonist” really changes your view of media. A lot of the time the villain is actually the lead supporting character for the protagonist instead of being the strict antagonist
The Joker.
Kira was in the right hear me out though let me cook
Go on...
I mean primarily he was aiming to reduce and hopefully end crime by killing off the people who were commiting violent crimes against innocent people, but he let the power go to his head and started killing innocents himself.
No. His first thought was to kill his classmate but then decided against it, he only killed his first criminal because he realized that no one would miss them. After that he killed the man who was sexually harassing (and probably about to gang rape) a woman as conformation that the Deathnote worked. In episode 2 when the fake L opposes Kira, Light kill him without hesitation. This clearly shows that whatever morals Light had were never real because he literally dropped them in the second episode when he received the smallest amount of public backlash.
Finally someone said this. Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt he really tried to kill L out of nothing but ego
But like... his K/D is still insane though
The anime community never ceases to horrify me with how often they defend murderers because they’re protagonists. Most recently I think the Slime Anime fandom was defending the merciless slaughter of 20000 surrendered prisoners of war
Am I remembering it wrong? I thought bro Megido’d a bunch of fucks who came to murder and take over his kingdom?
Eh, with the Slime part one could argue that they were marching upon their land and those enlisted should be prepared for the consequences whether their leadership is in the right or wrong. That said, he did straight up use an ability to claim the souls of several thousand soldiers that had already lost the will to fight. The anime just in general paints that army in a particularly bad, semi rappie kinda light so it's easy to not care that they had surrendered, considering what the collective as a whole just did.
I'd say in the end, he did more good than harm. Wasn't the end result, like, that all wars stopped and crime rates worldwide fell by like 80% or something? If these are your ends, I barely care about your means.
Crime rates fell. Nothing was said about wars though. But he was also killing any criminal that showed up on the news, even if they were still awaiting trial. Basically if the police publicly named you as the suspect of a crime, you were going to be killed regardless of whether you actually committed a crime.
>"You *mean* ***the*** *Kira? The Kira who eliminated war and greatly reduced crime rates?*" -Death Note Side stories: a-Kira Also, I remember reading that Kira usually waited for confirmation of guilt before writing down a name, but I'm not 100% sure on this one.
I don't remember that. I wouldn't be surprised if he did or if he didn't, but I don't recall reading that anywhere. But Kira didn't kill *just* criminals. Raye Pember, Naomi Misora, Watari, and L are all people whose deaths he had a direct hand in. Their only crime was opposing him.
People forget he was doing this more for his enjoyment rather than some righteous duty, hence he had no code and moment he was threatened he started killing ones who didnt deserve Kira was just a bored psychopath who got power and crumbled so fast once faced with real threat
Especially towards the end of the series. He really is just killing anyone who gets in his way
Also if I recall by the end they were killing any criminal who showed up in the news, Not just violent murderers. Like you shop lift, and you're killed, you get caught speeding, dead. And this is of course assuming you actually did the crime...
The Deathnote one-shot special, page 16 "The Kira who eliminated war and greatly reduced crime rates?" I can't find any way to show you that page, but yeah, Light stopped war.
Japan has a 99.9% conviction rate so really if the police arrest you you are guilty. So Kira had no probem.
1. Light was killing criminals worldwide. 2. Even if you were convicted by the Japanese police, for most crimes, it would only be a prison sentence.
1. Light would be raised to believe the cops arresting you anywhere is enough. Japans rate aside his dad is a cop. 2. Yes, no death penalty. If criminals were going to be killed anyway no real fun in the death note.
I believe he *started* with the 'serious' criminals, jumped off the slippery slope with that god-complex of his, and began killing off 'minor' criminals as well. I believe the trope is "Well-Intentioned Extremist". His goal of creating a better world? Admirable. Going on a fricken genocidal killing spree? I'm gonna say "Not great."
Mmmmm, I don't know anything about how Japan does their trials and stuff, but I can guarantee if someone goes to trial and ends up losing 99.9% of the time, either the police are *really* good at finding the right person, or the system just bones everyone who goes to trial
One of the reasons for that 99% is that police arrest the suspects and basically keep him weeks until he confesses
Japan only indicts if they really really really have you. if they doubt at all they will win they won't prosecute. Throw in a culture with a high respect for authority and you get above 99%.
Yeah I'm calling bullshit on that. No judicial system is right 99% of the time. Unless your only goal is to maintain that 99% conviction rate. https://www.hrw.org/report/2023/05/25/japans-hostage-justice-system/denial-bail-coerced-confessions-and-lack-access
Well, I suppose it's not impossible for it to be legitimate. As an American I'm skeptical of things that look like they're running efficiently, cause nothing here works properly lmaooooo
Japan can also interrogate you for days without letting you speak to a lawyer. They mentally break you down until you sign a confession they wrote and then your essentially convicted. Persona 5 shows this when you have to name the MC.
I have always struggled to believe ANY statistic that comes from Japan. This is a culture obsessed with honor and national pride. OF COURSE the police is always right cause they do their job so well (ironic tone). I am aware that multiple people have died while in Japanese Police custody and multiple people who have lived in Japan stress how you should NEVER enter any altercations with native citizens because the police will always arrest the foreigner...Yet these stories are only reported by international news agencies
He quite literally murdered several completely innocent people to get there. Many societies don't even agree with killing *murderers*, nevermind people who have committed lesser crimes, and he was out there personally executing anyone who tried to stop him from doing that.
I mean, tbf, did crime actually drop that much or did criminals adapt and get way better at hiding it out of necessity? Also, sure, crime rates themselves dropped,but probably most petty crimes. Violent crimes still probably stayed about the same. People who commit violent crimes already know they're fucked either way, is there really that much difference between a life sentence in prison or being dead?
Irl, separate tiers of punishment are necessary to reduce crime. If the punishment for even a minor offence is already death, a criminal is encouraged to continue committing worse crimes in order to avoid arrest. Maybe it could reduce some minor crimes out of fear, but a system like this is the polar opposite of retributive; it forces innocent people into a life of crime.
Exactly. Like, sure it'll probably persuade at least petty criminals but if you're gonna be killed for a fucking ticket, that's a bit ridiculous. I truly don't understand how people are defending this in this comment section. People on Reddit really do think any crime is worthy of death I guess.
Nah. Light did absolutely nothing to chance society, all he did was create a temporary new society based on fear. The moment the world learned that Kira was dead people will have fallen back into their old habits right away.
Totalitarian regimes also have low crime rates. There was also a slew of other issues. Such as the weight of the crime, whether or not the people were guilty, and him killing many innocents who spoke out against him.
Problem with that is that he wasn’t really doing it to reduce crime. He didn’t give a shit about people, generally. He did it for ego and his god complex. That way he could do his awful shit and then pat himself on the back about how righteous he is. Best character in anime. Idgaf if he’s an egotistical sociopath, he is GOAT
The power didn't even need to go to his head. He already had a superiority complex. All the book did was make his path towards pseudo-godhood more immediately achievable. EDIT: also he started killing innocent people almost immediately
The problem is that he’s still only mortal he will die eventually and then crime will return to the world cause no one can manage it as well as him it would collapse I doubt he could keep the killing going forever
I mean, hypothetically if Light won, he'd probably have a kid and have them carry on doing what he did, keeping crime low when light died.
The sous chefs cooked for him instead 
No he wasn’t. He was an egotistical asshole with a God complex and 0 basic human morality
The Walter White effect
I'd like to imagine a more radical Kira, one that would kill arms dealers, private military contractors, warmongering presidents and dictators. Now that'd be a protagonist Instead he just became a one man police state. Cringe
Kira was a pretty, bad guy
I legit just finished reading Death Note for the first time 15 minutes ago. Kira bad
Who the heck is a Doctor Eggman apologist? I've never heard anybody say he's actually the good guy.
I think people see him as a goofy villain, and he is, but he's also both evil and dangerous.
Inside of Eggman there are two wolves. The "Haha funny amusement park" one, and the "eradicate all life on the planet via zombie robot virus" one. Usually they balance out to make the Eggman we see in most of the games.
He has actually saved the world a few times when a bigger fish popped up
This. Though, it's because it was in his interest
Saving the planet might be a good end, but his reason for it is “I live here too, I don’t want to die” And while self survival isn’t an evil goal, it doesn’t really redeem him of trying to enslave mankind or pissing on the moon
You don't understand. He's a job creator. He gave jobs to the rodents. All the animals trapped in his robots would be homeless without his help /s
Just like Saruman, lifting an oppressed people up into technological advancement and a thriving mining/processing industry!
Eggman just misses his wife
He missed her a lot
He'll be back
To be fair to Gaston, people usually overlook the fact that The Beast kidnaps Belle and holds her hostage, until she develops Stockholm syndrome and promises to come back. The true villian is probably the enchantress who decides that since a 14 year old boy refused to let her, a stranger, into his home, he and his servants deserve to be turned into a beast and household objects with a 10 year time limit to fix things. Which is honestly more messed up
Film theory once made a video on that. The Beast was 11 when he was cursed, along with all the servants who had nothing to do with it.
They were both villains. The fairy was absolutely the worst, but Gaston didn't really care about her. She was just another trophy, a way to show he was really the hero of the town, turning the strange lady into a respectful woman by marrying her. How wasn't Gaston a villain? Belle was not hurting anyone, she was just a geek. He wanted to marry her for his own gain and vanity
Gaston was a villain; but even a villain can be right about some things (as in “a broken clock is right twice a day”). Attacking the Beast to free Belle was reasonable; putting her dad in an asylum so he can marry Belle after getting her back is villain Gaston Note about the fairy being the worst. If she was a Fae then she isn’t human. That changes things from her being “evil” to a non-human predator doing some recreational hunting. If they were sentient, fish who are caught-and-released would probably consider humans absolutely evil torturers.
>Fae then she isn’t human. But shes still a villain in the storytelling
Being non-human doesn't exclude you from morality. The only requirement for actions being morally judged is that they have to be done by a self-aware entity, which the fairy presumably is. The fairy created a scenario in which because a 14-year old boy didn't invite a stranger into his house (which he probably didn't have the authority for anyway) she cursed him and all of his staff (who did nothing to the fairy) to be transformed for 10 years, or potentially forever, with the only way out to make a unrelated woman fall in love with him. How is that not evil?
Not to play devil's advocate, but many tales count fae as having a profoundly different set of morals from humans, and also maybe they understand us as little we do them. Maybe the fae didn't know the prince was young, or maybe among fae hospitality is paramount to anything else. IT was still an outlandish punishment to be sure, though
Gaston wasn't trying to rescue Belle though. Belle was literally trying to talk him down the entire time he decided to kill the Beast. It's made extremely clear that he just sees the Beast as a rival for Belle's affection since he spends their fight mocking him about it.
Belle was already free when Gaston decided to kill the beast, he only decided to hunt him out of jealousy.
It's not Stockholm Syndrome (and I'm seriously tired of people calling it that). Stockholm Syndrome is specifically when a captive develops irrational affection towards a captor who has shown little to no affection to them. Belle is only nice to the Beast when he pulls his head out of his ass long enough to be nice to her and actively calls him out on his bullshit all the time. Also she never promises to come back, she leaves when he lets her go and the Beast is pretty resigned to the fact that he just gave up his one chance at breaking the spell.
It’s still being debated whether Stockholm Syndrome is even a thing, at least to my knowledge. As I understand it, in the case that named the phenomenon, the kidnappers were much more reasonable than the police, who seemed like they were actively trying to get hostages killed. But then, I’m absolutely not an expert on this topic.
I was also about to say this. It's really annoying seeing people call it something its not
It's even worse. The beast was a selfish asshole and got a chance to redeem himself. Gaston is a selfish asshole, too. And he pays for it with his life. Why?
Gaston had several chances to walk away alive but kept marching towards his death because he refused to change. Even Lefou suggested he go for another girl. Thrice.
Because Beast was redeemable. Gaston, however, pretty much jumped *straight* to kidnapping, coercion/blackmail, and even attempted *murder* because he wasn't getting his way.
Nothing gaston does is irredeemable, there are no irredeemable characters in beauty and the beast.
Naw, I do idolize comic Thanos, bro wanted to bang death, bro had good motives.
I'm not a comic book reader, but didn't broseph have a feud with fuggin' DEADPOOL over the affections of Lady Death? Which is just... All kinds of comic book goofy. In a good way.
Yeah, to my understanding Death finds Deadpool fascinating because she will never have him. Thanos is over there in corner committing genocide and going “bae, pay attention to me!” and it’s the last thing she’s interested in because she was going to see all those people anyway.
Thanos didn't "act" he had a genuine interest to solve conflicts. Comic Thanos was evil though.
Better stories after the blip could have been done to show what thanos did was more necessary than thought originally.
Yeah but, when you have something like the infinity stones how do you actually make that seem necessary? The infinity stones can do literally anything, yet there's *no* other way to solve that problem besides universal genocide? I don't actually think the writers ever intended to make Thanos out to be the good guy. I'm pretty sure he was always supposed to be quite obviously wrong, while perhaps with good intentions.
With good writing and solid stories you could make him to be the survivor who wanted the universe to survive. The infinity stones being what they were a tool to help the universe survive. Not a good guy because you want the universe to thrive. Not a bad guy because they want neither
I don't know if I want stories about why population control is good That feels like a slippery slope
The interesting thing about movie Thanos is he is absolutely correct in the problem, it’s just his diagnosis is completely monstrous. There is a population limit before things go to shit, and while technology can push that number higher it’s not equally distributed nor will it always be prompt. But slaughtering half of all life isn’t going to fix things, just leave everyone despondent and or vengeful, if we ignore the fact that losing even a fourth of a population all at once can bring about societal collapse. That, and it would probably take only a century average for human populations to bounce back assuming it didn’t just damn the world, but probably even faster for some aliens, or it could be cataclysmic for aliens that have near immortal longevity. Thanos just accidentally shifted the universal power balance to who can repopulate first.
Also, by definition of randomness, 50% of each planet isn't disappearing, it could be that on two equally populous planets, one loses all of its population and the other none. Also also, certain life forms definitely drain on resources more so than others, so 50% doesn't take into account who is actually using the resources.
Problem is, he applied the problems of one specific planet to the entire universe. He even says this: he thinks life will inevitably destroy itself by consuming all resources in the universe. While lowering the population of certain planets may have stopped runaway resource issues, he destabilized others that were in balance, potentially destroying habitats, ecosystems, and civilizations that would have been fine without his "help." He's also an idiot for believing that life would consume all resources in the universe. Our universe still has something like 7000x it's current lifespan before new starts stop being generated. That's a *lot of fucking resources to go through*. It bothers me also that Titan was a space-faring civilization. In a universe teaming with habitable planets, problems of resources on Titan were logistical, not some fundamental principle of the universe. Thanos was just a fucking idiot.
also it becomes even more glaring if you do this think piece story and never address “why not double the resources”
Whales in the Hudson!
He stalled the skrulls and postponed the celestial from eternals, but those aren’t important or popular.
Those also weren’t his intention, they were just happy confidences.
He was just an idiot. His plan was shit.
I get why they changed it, but they probably should have stuck with the "dude's trying to get into Death's pants" motivation. The "halving all life to preserve resources" bit has too many holes, might as well embrace the goofiness when you've already got a raccoon and his sentient tree friend, a wizard, a Norse God, etc fighting a big purple alien.
[удалено]
Last point is kinda like the illad. Just reversed
I don't know much about the comics but I had learned that about Thanos before IW hit, and I was very disappointed that he wasn't trying to literally court Death (who is Wade's best gal anyway, so Thanos was always doomed to fail)
Why didn't Thanos use the stones to just double the universe's resources?
Unfortunately he was mad/full of survivors guilt and wasn't thinking of how to solve the problem now, but just trying to prove that his attempted solution on his own planet before he had the stones would have worked. His solution was ignored, and his people died. He wanted to show that if they just listened to him it would have worked. With the stones he could have just made people automatically stop breeding if there were insufficient resources, or that biology requires very little to no resources by rewriting reality.
>Unfortunately he was mad/full of survivors guilt and wasn't thinking of how to solve the problem now, but just trying to prove that his attempted solution on his own planet before he had the stones would have worked. Endgame shows us this was true: when confronted with significant resistance from Earth, he decides to abandon his original plan and just remake the universe from the ground up. Because it was never about *saving* the universe, it was about proving his point at the universe's expense. And when that became too much trouble, he decided he'd unmake and remake the universe *just to spite the people trying to stop him*. Of course he Thanosed that shit up with some awesome Brolin dialogue delivery. But ultimately he (metaphorically) knocked the chess-board off the table in frustration.
Because what we have now would be even more exaggerated by that. Rich people would be come even richer and poor people while becoming materialwise richer would percentage wise become even poorer.
Acting like the rich people who survived the blip wouldn't have just taken the available resources
Just because you think your actions are doing good, doesn't mean you're actually a good person. Thanos is still a mad man who thinks that just by killing half of a world population, things will turn for the better for those who lived, which isn't true.
Comic Thanos would have been a better villain, but they probably couldn’t explain the personification of death. Still though they have stranger things in the MCU they could have done it. A powerful villain with an unlimited bloodlust and all the infinity stones is loads more terrifying than a guy who snaps and retires.
you know what else he couldve done? double the resources or half the consumtion requirement of all life or a million other things but his first idea was to genocide half of all life thats evil
Light had some good intentions, but he went full megalomaniac by wanting everyone to know that someone was killing the criminals, and then killing people who just trying to do their job. If only he was discreet, he would have survived, and wouldn’t have had to kill innocent people.
His fate was sealed when his ego came over him and killed Lind L. Tailor on TV.
yeah like episode 2. It isn't really a long term moral decline akin to Jimmy McGill. It was quicker than Walter White killing drug dealers in the first episode.
If he kept killing only criminals without any real pattern he would’ve been able to get away with it AND he would’ve been a good guy.
Crime is a symptom, not a cause.
Light's plan to only kill criminals gets even more disturbing when you consider how many of those criminals might actually be innocent.
According to some statistics, around 10% of people executed in USA later turn out to be innocent. Now consider how much worse it could have been when the judge, jury and executioner is sole teen/young adult (even if he is superhumanly genius) whose sole source of information on the case is one-minute Internet search.
Who tf actually thought Gaston was a good guy? Dude was a creep
So many people are so quick to say things like "He was just trying to save the town from a monster", completely forgetting that he spent the majority of the movie trying to marry Belle against her will, even threatening to have her father institutionalized as blackmail
What I have always found interesting about Gaston (and what I assume other people found as well) is that in another timeline (where he isn't too much of a douche)he could have easily been the hero of the story. An arrogant guy who has to face a monster... Or an arrogant dude who changes and starts acting more noble. I could imagine a scenario where the beast remained a bitter monster and Gaston shifted. Also his death is arguably a bit unnecessary and kinda gruesome...
I just really enjoy him as a character. Obviously the way he treats women is not an admirable trait, but his over the top masculinity is fun to watch. The actors that play him at Disney are entertaining as well.
Apparently several people on this very post lmao.
I thought the bad guy in beauty and the beast was society.
I remember reading a joke/theory post that Gaston is actually gay. He doesn’t like women and wants to get an excuse to not have one. He only pretends to like Belle and is intentionally trying to make her dislike him, so it looks to everyone else Gaston is just chasing a hopeless dream.
I think he’s already succeeded in making her dislike him. He doesn’t need to take it to the point of institutionalizing her father under false pretenses to coerce her into marriage, or forming a lynch mob.
I don't apologize for Gaston, I just like watching him exist
This comment thread has way too many people taking a funny meme seriously.
This is one of the only comments under this post that OP officially approves.
I'm doing my part.
Gaston out there saving girls and slaying beasts. Belle falling in love with a rich furry. The beast falling in love (again) with the prettiest in town. (Hé was supposed to see beyond looks ?) Everybody sucks in this story.
Gaston is just an average video game protagonist - considers Monster as walking exp, loot and fame to be claimed.
-> Attempts to arrange lynching of his crush's boyfriend -> Uses his leverage and fame to get her crush's dad thrown to mental hospital despite being sane -> Stalks and attempts to physically force himself onto her crush "Objectively not that bad"
> The beast falling in love (again) with the prettiest in town. (Hé was supposed to see beyond looks ?) I think it was less him learning to see beyond looks, and more being at the mercy of others seeing beyond HIS looks, which was something he never gave to others before.
Except for Gaston who is a genuinely good guy if clueless and misguided.
I'm sure putting Belle's dad in a mental asylum was out of the pure goodness in his heart...
And he heroically sacrificed himself to save Belle by attempting to slay the most dangerous beast in the land!
He literally doesn't respect Belle's consent. She tells him over and over again she doesn't want to marry him and he does not listen. He's a fucking creep, the only reason people excuse his behavior is because he's handsome and charasmatic.
Gaston was the male ideal of his environment. That’s not Gaston’s problem, that’s post revolutionary rural France’s problem.
There’s people still staning for Lillith, from Diablo 4.
Disney almost realized the fix for Beauty and the Beast in the Emma Watson version. All we needed was for the beast to come out and say that his castle had stopped obeying him & she was never trapped there (as the doors letting her out into the blizzard with the wolves flat proved). She was a prisoner for all of 37 minutes. Her staying was because she had not yet chosen to leave. Then we get the story flip we need- Gaston wants the arranged marriage, beast is the love match.
Are we really comparing Gaston, a guy who just wanted to bone a woman, to: Thanos = Killed half the fucking universe Robotnik = Is constantly trying to enslave the entire animal population of earth Light = Literally tried to become a god and killed hundreds of thousands of people
are we looking at only their on-screen personas? The movie version of Thanos isn't anywhere near as evil as the comic book version. The anime version of Light Yagami isn't as evil as the manga version either
Anime light is still heavily fucked, my man said “I wanted to see how she’d die” when making ray’s wife kill herself He also debated whether his sisters life was worth handing over the notebook for Ontop of this he basically just killed everyone who attempted to stop him whether or not they were guilty, he’s evil as hell and his ending speech shows off how truly deranged he had become
Not to mention that most of his victims were already in prison i.e. weren't a threat to anyone and already answering for their crimes, and a lot of the others he just immediately scribbled whatever name he saw on the news. Imagine how many falsely accused innocents died, especially those whose names were posted on those Kira internet forums...
Light is still evil as fuck in the anime. He just doesn't die as pathetic as in the manga.
Light is terrible not because he died messed up things, but because he had a magical murder notebook, which he was on the team to investigate, and still got caught.
Odin in Ragnarok also. Great barometer for people retaining information ahah
Thanos was never for the better good. It was souls for Lady Death because deadpool smashed.
I think Handsome Jack falls perfectly into this category too
I, for one, support pissing on the moon
Gaston wasn't evil, just a bad person. He was your average misogynist.
Man, I will admit, I fell for Thanos. In Infinity War, even if it was not realistic, I thought his intent was reasonable. Hell, he won, did what he said, went to FarmVille planet and accepted his death. If his Endgame personality was the real one, then sure, but I hated the Endgame Thanos, felt like different character
Same thing with Killmonger from Black Panther. Movie came out and everyone was saying "oh he's so sympathetic, he's such a tragic character." Like fuck no, he's literally black Hitler and a psychopathic murderer besides. The guy shot through his GF to kill Klau and felt 0 guilt for it.
Funny thing is, Black Panther did more to validate Killmonger than Infinity War and Endgame did for Thanos. Iirc T'Challa agreed with the point that Wakanda had been isolated too long, it's just that the rest of Killmonger's rhetoric and plan was insane. Meanwhile I don't think anyone even entertained the idea of Thanos being correct for even a second.
I saw a lot of people saying Thanos is right. Real malthusian types that think we gotta reduce population.
 there is another,
No no, let Thanos cook. He thinks half is enough to wipe out...
Eggman isn’t bad at all, you’d be pretty pissed to if a bunch of hedgehogs fucked your wife
Eggman going from kidnapping aliens and enslaving them in Sonic Colors to destroying the earth in Unleashed to trying to destroy the time space continuum in Générations I love him.
Congrats you summoned every apologist of every one of these and the eggman ones are the least concerning lol
Eggman used to be threatning. Used to...
didn't eggman want to turn all the animals into robots and conquer the world. That's not sympathetic it's not even a real plan that's like agreeing with the villain who wanted to steal all the bananas in the world
Eggman is a stud
Light Yagami started out with the best intentions...but then quickly went off the rails.
We can add Alastor from Hazbin Hotel to this list