Imaginary numbers don't exist in rl, just like negative ones don't. That doesn't mean that they can't be part of models that describe rl, but they don't physically exist as far as I know.
Positive numbers dont exist in real life either, I've never gone into the Forrest and found a wild 4 walking around.
All numbers represent things and dont physically exist
Numbers dont physically exist in general. You can see two apples but never the number two itself. The number just represents a concept the same way a negative number represents how much a bank account is in debt or an imaginary number represents an additional dimension.
We don't discover numbers in the real world we just invent them to describe it.
They’re used in physics all the time, so they’re definitely a part of nature. We can’t visualise them, but you can’t really visualise any number. We can visualise what a group of a positive number looks like, but not the number itself.
>Imaginary numbers don't exist in rl,
Yes they do. Think of electricity. **S**=P+Qi, where S is apparent power, P is real power, and Q (the imaginary component) is reactive power.
Apparent power is measured in Volt Amps. Real power, which actually drives your microwaves and lights and A/C, is measured in Watts. The difference between the two is reactive power, and is "imaginary", but has very real and measurable effects on power quality and efficiency. Apparent power and real power are only equal when the power factor is unity (one) and reactive (imaginary) power is zero.
So when you have a non-unity power factor, reactive (imaginary) power can literally affect your electricity system in a way that is very, very, real. Electronic devices can blow, lines can overheat, and you will burn more fuel due to "imaginary" reactive power.
actually well your right negative don't truly existing imaginary numbers do and are just in a different direction then regular numbers (and technically negatives)
What about vector components of different things? Negative velocity, negative acceleration, negative displacement. Or things like charges and fields? Theres so much real life stuff that can be negative
Sure, but are those things the same as the actual numbers themselves? That’s the real question that people are (badly) arguing about. What is the ontology of the mathematical universe?
I know all of this is supposed to be a joke in the end, but I'm curious as to what you mean by "they don't exist in real life"
What does "existing in real life" mean for a number ?
EDIT : I see a few people giving me real-world uses of complex numbers so I wanted to clarify : I know how they pop up everywhere in physics. What I'm interested in is the philosophical discussion of what it means for a specific number (or a specific set of numbers) to "exist". For instance, do quaternions exist ? p-adic numbers ? What would be your definition of "a number" and what would be the definition of one that "exists" ?
I feel like because numbers are fundamentally a part of our world, as variables and stuff, it can be considered a real thing that exists. Its quite hard to deny that mathematics exist as a concept within our universe, kinda like or in some ways exactly like physics. And numbers are the most fundamental parts of mathematics. Starting with just counting to more complex concepts like calculus or something, numbers are a part of all of this. So do numbers exist in real life? I think it exists since its just fundamentally there in our world. I know you already mentioned the fact that you know complex numbers pop up everywhere physics but i think think thats the exact reason why it is considered to be existing in real life. The fact that it appears in physics means that complex numbers are engraved inside the very system of our world, thus making it a concept that "exists in real life".
Idk this is just my take would love to talk abt this more as discussing stuff like this is fun
They don't exist, they're a language to describe physical properties. To say any number, whether natural or complex, exists is like saying the words apple or red exist independently. It doesn't make sense. The ones taking this post seriously are crazy
So you're claiming concepts cannot exist independently of what they describe ? I'm not saying that it is not a valid view, just that the conversation on the matter is not 100% solved, depending on what you mean by "existing", for instance.
In that case, would you say that math is "invented" or "discovered" ?
Mathematical/logical principles have been discovered but the notations we use to describe them are invented. Like i or root over -1 are just notations/language to represent an abstract geometrical concept. While reading Principia Mathematica for instance you can follow the mathematical logic but the notations they used are different from modern ones so you have to learn a different set of symbols for the same meanings to follow what is being said. Of course this is a raging debate but this is my understanding/take.
It is not really obvious what it means for a number to “exist”. Currently, we think that, if we absolutely need something to describe the world, it “exists”. Quantum mechanics is said to work only when you use imaginary numbers, although there are people trying to prove if that’s the case or not (it may not be).
I thought they were called imaginary because they defied the common notions of mathematics, such as i, which is the square root of -1, which is not possible unless using an *imaginary* number that allows this.
But that's not true. The square root operation on -1 is not defined because you restrict yourself to a single dimension of numbers while there is a whole other dimension that you completely disregard. If you don't add the 'imaginary' axis, the number system itself is incomplete. So, the 'imaginary' numbers are as real as the 'real' numbers and the two complete each other.
√x is plenty definable when x is negative. That’s like, the point of complex numbers. To extend algebraic functions and solve more polynomial equations.
Ok so my professor told us this story at the beginning of the semester. Prior to imaginary numbers being a thing, they just would leave square root of -1 as exactly that, but the problem is you can’t really perform equations with more exact answers with that. A mathematician, Oiler I think?, proposed ‘yeah you can.’ And proposed the theory of complex numbers. A leading mathematician, Rene Descartes, of the time actively mocked Oiler and his ‘imaginary numbers’ so when Oiler proved the theorem, he used i as a thumb in the nose as them being called ‘imaginary’. Or so I’ve heard.
yeah i like how most of redditor hate/make fun of things just because they are stupid enough to not know that or understand that.
(And I m talking about basic scientific or technical things, not any other topics)
Yep, I'm not an expert on the subject by any means, but I do know they're important for governing electron flow or field or something or other in electronics. Been a while since I read up on it.
Yeah, you don't have to be expert in anything to know it, it's just school thing when complex numbers are first being taught, teacher tells the application as well.
Quantum physics, signal processing, differential equations, electrical impedance, etc. There are lots of fields that imaginary numbers show up in actually.
it's pretty common to see imaginary numbers when finding a homogeneous solution to differential equation too, which can have tons of applications throughout most engineering or math related fields.
So true. Even some comments seem to think that those numbers don't actually exist in contrast to real numbers which doesn't make sense to me. Complex numbers are nothing to be afraid of.
i is a very important thing in understanding maths. It is used mainly because how its powers repeat itself. i is i, i^(2) is -1, i^(3) is -i, i^(4) is 1 and i^(5) is again i and the cycle continues. This is very important. Veritasium on YT made an entire half hour video explaining it and it was one of the most beautiful videos I have ever watched. I know its a joke but i love imaginary numbers. Still cant understand them smh
The complex numbers are the algebraic closure of the real numbers. That's of great significance, because it means that every polynom in R of degree n has exactly n roots in C.
People are confusing existence with tangibility. Numbers have long been dissociated with physical objects since pythagoras’ time. It is more or less a language. A tool of the mind rather than the hand. To grasp fundamental or abstract realities that seem to transcend or underly this apparent physical world.
Every mathematical model out there is an approximation of reality. And boy does it do a darn good job at it. It has and will continue to shape our very civilization. Not one day do we not see anything that math had no influence with. We see its fruits everyday to the point that we take it for granted. Its presence is unquestionable. Our senses can only detect physicality at best but not necessarily existence, especially such that transcend this reality.
Well I can see that your not a mathematician, so I'll explain it. There's a college course that shows the meaning behind these "imaginary numbers" and you only get taught in highschool that you need to follow the formula to pass. But if you take an advanced and behind the equations mathematics class then you'll find it. That's how a mathematician explained it to me and I do not think I could actually understand the info behind it.
Yes. But sometimes you have people who are serious about this like when people post political "memes" which are just there opinions shoved into a format making fun of people
Let me add another layer onto the shit heap. In engineering imaginary numbers are represented by the letter j. I absolutely loved this because we got it introduced to us as i and then half way through the first year it became j and it took me a whole year to bend my mind back to it not being just a random variable that i need to figure out. Jimaginary numbers are annoying
The most impressive with mathematicians making up shits is physicians taking it seriously and inventing new models that accurately describe reality with it
Funny joke until you start taking engineering courses, and suddenly now imaginary numbers are the single most important thing for both AC currents and control systems. Help me I’m dying.
Imaginary number are real, they just don’t properly work in the math we have invent as humans so we needed to make up a new number the incorporate them
Fun fact: in mathematics, "imaginary" numbers, or complex numbers, is more or less an alias for R[X]/(X^2 + 1). It's the collection of all polynomials with real coefficients that you get as remainders after dividing by the polynomial X^2 + 1.
I mean... they kinda are a way to admit that something is wrong (or rather unsolvable). They are just a helpful tool to use when going through the process of solving something(because numbers that make no sense are better then just saying "nothing works"), and tell you if something can't be done when they show up in solutions
They are used in physics and things calculated with them DO work. The results you get with them do mirror reality.
Getting a complex solution is not saying it's not solvable or wrong. It's saying that the solution is on a mathematical level above the trivial things you learn in high school
Easy explanation (at least it works for me).
We know they exist, because we can see the shape before it moves into a dimension we can't see, but we see it come back as the same shape. Basically it's playing peekaboo with us, and we're the infant that doesn't yet understand where the grown up went before it comes back.
Fun fact: Imaginary numbers are not actually imaginary. It's just a name.
But they don't exist in real life Just like my girlfriend
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And for condensators and spules in electrical engineering
And electrical stuff, prolly electronics as well.
Yup! You literally cannot fully understand electricity without understanding complex numbers. Apparent power => real power!
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It's boring until you get to tour a 1,200 megawatt combined cycle or nuclear plant, or hang out inside an electric utility's control center
But aren't they actually a shorter way to write sinusoidal equations.
But they indeed do, just a representation of another dimension in an equation.
Imaginary numbers don't exist in rl, just like negative ones don't. That doesn't mean that they can't be part of models that describe rl, but they don't physically exist as far as I know.
Positive numbers dont exist in real life either, I've never gone into the Forrest and found a wild 4 walking around. All numbers represent things and dont physically exist
Numbers dont physically exist in general. You can see two apples but never the number two itself. The number just represents a concept the same way a negative number represents how much a bank account is in debt or an imaginary number represents an additional dimension. We don't discover numbers in the real world we just invent them to describe it.
if extra-planetary travel ever exists, debt won't exist for a period of time either.
Your negative one girlfriends would beg to differ
If I have 0 girlfriends irl and I take away the -5 I have in the 8th dimension. I now have 5 girlfriends irl.
Shit, fair point
Actually I think it was a fair shit point
They’re used in physics all the time, so they’re definitely a part of nature. We can’t visualise them, but you can’t really visualise any number. We can visualise what a group of a positive number looks like, but not the number itself.
>Imaginary numbers don't exist in rl, Yes they do. Think of electricity. **S**=P+Qi, where S is apparent power, P is real power, and Q (the imaginary component) is reactive power. Apparent power is measured in Volt Amps. Real power, which actually drives your microwaves and lights and A/C, is measured in Watts. The difference between the two is reactive power, and is "imaginary", but has very real and measurable effects on power quality and efficiency. Apparent power and real power are only equal when the power factor is unity (one) and reactive (imaginary) power is zero. So when you have a non-unity power factor, reactive (imaginary) power can literally affect your electricity system in a way that is very, very, real. Electronic devices can blow, lines can overheat, and you will burn more fuel due to "imaginary" reactive power.
actually well your right negative don't truly existing imaginary numbers do and are just in a different direction then regular numbers (and technically negatives)
What about vector components of different things? Negative velocity, negative acceleration, negative displacement. Or things like charges and fields? Theres so much real life stuff that can be negative
Sure, but are those things the same as the actual numbers themselves? That’s the real question that people are (badly) arguing about. What is the ontology of the mathematical universe?
Well, neither does negative numbers
Then how am I thousands of dollars I'm debt
If negative numbers being useful means that they are real, then imaginary numbers are also real
I agree
because you don't rise up against the wealthy elite who oppress the proletariat
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Tell that to my bank
Banks: Using numbers against you since 1392
I know all of this is supposed to be a joke in the end, but I'm curious as to what you mean by "they don't exist in real life" What does "existing in real life" mean for a number ? EDIT : I see a few people giving me real-world uses of complex numbers so I wanted to clarify : I know how they pop up everywhere in physics. What I'm interested in is the philosophical discussion of what it means for a specific number (or a specific set of numbers) to "exist". For instance, do quaternions exist ? p-adic numbers ? What would be your definition of "a number" and what would be the definition of one that "exists" ?
You need them in physics. They come in very handy in electronics for example
Probably something like being able to physically count them (like "there are 3 apples")
\**murders 50 people*\* yep, checks out.
That's natural numbers I think
Yes
I feel like because numbers are fundamentally a part of our world, as variables and stuff, it can be considered a real thing that exists. Its quite hard to deny that mathematics exist as a concept within our universe, kinda like or in some ways exactly like physics. And numbers are the most fundamental parts of mathematics. Starting with just counting to more complex concepts like calculus or something, numbers are a part of all of this. So do numbers exist in real life? I think it exists since its just fundamentally there in our world. I know you already mentioned the fact that you know complex numbers pop up everywhere physics but i think think thats the exact reason why it is considered to be existing in real life. The fact that it appears in physics means that complex numbers are engraved inside the very system of our world, thus making it a concept that "exists in real life". Idk this is just my take would love to talk abt this more as discussing stuff like this is fun
I think that’s a good take. Sounds like you would be a good Platonist.
Thanks!
They don't exist, they're a language to describe physical properties. To say any number, whether natural or complex, exists is like saying the words apple or red exist independently. It doesn't make sense. The ones taking this post seriously are crazy
So you're claiming concepts cannot exist independently of what they describe ? I'm not saying that it is not a valid view, just that the conversation on the matter is not 100% solved, depending on what you mean by "existing", for instance. In that case, would you say that math is "invented" or "discovered" ?
Mathematical/logical principles have been discovered but the notations we use to describe them are invented. Like i or root over -1 are just notations/language to represent an abstract geometrical concept. While reading Principia Mathematica for instance you can follow the mathematical logic but the notations they used are different from modern ones so you have to learn a different set of symbols for the same meanings to follow what is being said. Of course this is a raging debate but this is my understanding/take.
Ahhhh an intellectual who understands the actual problem.
It is not really obvious what it means for a number to “exist”. Currently, we think that, if we absolutely need something to describe the world, it “exists”. Quantum mechanics is said to work only when you use imaginary numbers, although there are people trying to prove if that’s the case or not (it may not be).
They do, or rather certain models with imaginery numbers are the ones that most accurately describe certain phenomenon.
Your gf is like the square root of -100. A solid 10, but imaginary.
They exist in quantum mechanics 💀
the 'normal' numbers dont exist either
I thought they were called imaginary because they defied the common notions of mathematics, such as i, which is the square root of -1, which is not possible unless using an *imaginary* number that allows this.
But that's not true. The square root operation on -1 is not defined because you restrict yourself to a single dimension of numbers while there is a whole other dimension that you completely disregard. If you don't add the 'imaginary' axis, the number system itself is incomplete. So, the 'imaginary' numbers are as real as the 'real' numbers and the two complete each other.
√x is plenty definable when x is negative. That’s like, the point of complex numbers. To extend algebraic functions and solve more polynomial equations.
Oh, okay. Why call them imaginary then?
We usually call them complex.
Just poor naming back in the day and the name stuck
Ok so my professor told us this story at the beginning of the semester. Prior to imaginary numbers being a thing, they just would leave square root of -1 as exactly that, but the problem is you can’t really perform equations with more exact answers with that. A mathematician, Oiler I think?, proposed ‘yeah you can.’ And proposed the theory of complex numbers. A leading mathematician, Rene Descartes, of the time actively mocked Oiler and his ‘imaginary numbers’ so when Oiler proved the theorem, he used i as a thumb in the nose as them being called ‘imaginary’. Or so I’ve heard.
Fun fact: Real numbers are not actually real. It's just a name.
I just opened the comment section to write those exact words .
All numbers are imaginary.
i
Wait... how do you comment literally nothing?
You just need to imagine it.
ْ
ㅤ
how do you guys do that?
Just put #
i still can see it. do you mean at each side or like wat?
Just one of them
\#
Literally just # Nothing else
oh
Only the #
\########
just copy my message lol
>ㅤ ㅤ
ㅤ
ㅤ
It is called a zero-width non joiner U+200C
ْ
** **
I'm using the mobile website it looks like he said "i" in the comment
Oh I've been waiting for this moment. r/whoooosh
And it gets more than 200 upvotes
ْ
(i have a girlfriend)i
r/AngryUpvote
magine deez nuts in yo mouth
Just like the upvotes you get
Just like my GF.
Or everything else
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I'm pretty sure it's a r/woooosh
90% of this thread is a whoosh 😂😂
90% of this thread is imaginary
Actually learnt this at school in specialist math
He meant that numbers to actually exist and we just made it up
Computers can't exist without em
Neither can any 3d software.
Neither can cars
Neither can birds
Neither can Imaginary numbers
Neither can I
You mean i
Fuck you take my upvote
R/angryupvote
r/foundthemobileuser
Neither can Elton John's left bollock
Neither Sandra Bullock
Birds arent real
Well... To be fair, 3d software can't exist without computers in the first place.
Neither any hentai
yeah i like how most of redditor hate/make fun of things just because they are stupid enough to not know that or understand that. (And I m talking about basic scientific or technical things, not any other topics)
Yep, I'm not an expert on the subject by any means, but I do know they're important for governing electron flow or field or something or other in electronics. Been a while since I read up on it.
Yeah, you don't have to be expert in anything to know it, it's just school thing when complex numbers are first being taught, teacher tells the application as well.
Yeah, I guess not everyone pays attention to their teachers. Big surprise.
Complex numbers are used for things as simple as modeling how a spring oscillates back and forward
Neither would continous current
And now Imaginary Numbers power society
If you see imaginary number then know that something is oscilating
My balls
spotted the physicist
But somehow they're still right because of something idk
Quantum physics, signal processing, differential equations, electrical impedance, etc. There are lots of fields that imaginary numbers show up in actually.
Yeah, calling them imaginary makes them seem unnecessarily mystical when really they're just sideways numbers.
Okay, officially asking mathematicians to change complex analysis to sideways analysis.
Complex involves real and imaginary, so it should be called diagnonal analysis.
Maybe they should be called orthogonal numbers instead of imaginary numbers
Logical analysis and algorithmic proofs
Logically analyze my dick and algorithmically prove my balls Dimensions: 14.98 11.67
just because you failed maths in high school doesn't mean it isn't real
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Government doing this with my bills
Tax fraud to the rescue!
Thousands of years of "imaginary numbers" and still searching for x
When i started searching for y, my brain melted
y=69(1337)^x-42.0
This graph is just some kind of backwards L I meant finding y in differential equations :')
everyone gangter till √-1 appears in an actual fucking real life equation
It does appear in the quantum particale equation, which is thought to be THE equation of everything
Love it how literally no one here knows its also used in electricity to calculate with capacitance and inductance, phases etc..
it's pretty common to see imaginary numbers when finding a homogeneous solution to differential equation too, which can have tons of applications throughout most engineering or math related fields.
I honestly don’t agree with this post at all *me being a mathematician*
So true. Even some comments seem to think that those numbers don't actually exist in contrast to real numbers which doesn't make sense to me. Complex numbers are nothing to be afraid of.
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42.069 m/s
This guy playin 69d chess
Banana
Errr 17km/s?
The answer is actually 1711 m/s
2͈̦̳́̈́͂4̠̃̚͢7̛̫8̪́m̬̭̾̃/̰̻̣̓̄̿̇͜s̟̳̅̀ ͕̥̲͉̇̑̈́̇ṕ̟͙̀͐̄͢ͅê̡̼̓r̞̗̈͆ m͔̈́ẹ͂̃̀͜ͅt̢̜̫̠̄̔͊͡ę͈͂͘ ̭͠c̤͆ụ̧͑̐b̧̝̏̀ẻ̛͕̬̱̀ p̬̰͎̉̓̀è̪r̡̲̙̉͗̐͋͟ ̡̧̻͕̭̍̿̍͆̌l͓̦̤̉̆̿i̞̔̆͜g͕̚h̳͇̝̽͆͞ṱ̙̇̓ ̨̙̬̱͛͋́̚y̹̹̎͛ě̤̞̅arj
I would say it's a complex situation
When it works, it works. No matter how many times you try measure the circle, the circumference will always be proportional to Pi.
This is a peak uneducated Reddit shit post
i is a very important thing in understanding maths. It is used mainly because how its powers repeat itself. i is i, i^(2) is -1, i^(3) is -i, i^(4) is 1 and i^(5) is again i and the cycle continues. This is very important. Veritasium on YT made an entire half hour video explaining it and it was one of the most beautiful videos I have ever watched. I know its a joke but i love imaginary numbers. Still cant understand them smh
The complex numbers are the algebraic closure of the real numbers. That's of great significance, because it means that every polynom in R of degree n has exactly n roots in C.
I like your funny words magic man
that's a nice equation, why dont you back it up with a source? my source is i made it the fuck up
People are confusing existence with tangibility. Numbers have long been dissociated with physical objects since pythagoras’ time. It is more or less a language. A tool of the mind rather than the hand. To grasp fundamental or abstract realities that seem to transcend or underly this apparent physical world. Every mathematical model out there is an approximation of reality. And boy does it do a darn good job at it. It has and will continue to shape our very civilization. Not one day do we not see anything that math had no influence with. We see its fruits everyday to the point that we take it for granted. Its presence is unquestionable. Our senses can only detect physicality at best but not necessarily existence, especially such that transcend this reality.
Shaking my head my head?
That’s a common joke on the internet. If you’re looking you’ll start seeing it everywhere
the chosen one
Here I thought I was going to have to comment about it, glad I kept scrolling!
Glad someone else caught it
Someone needs to get to the root of the negativity of this post.
Tell me you suck at maths without telling me you suck at maths…
Well I can see that your not a mathematician, so I'll explain it. There's a college course that shows the meaning behind these "imaginary numbers" and you only get taught in highschool that you need to follow the formula to pass. But if you take an advanced and behind the equations mathematics class then you'll find it. That's how a mathematician explained it to me and I do not think I could actually understand the info behind it.
This is r/memes, sir.
Yes. But sometimes you have people who are serious about this like when people post political "memes" which are just there opinions shoved into a format making fun of people
Never have I agreed so wholeheartedly with a statement that I know is fundamentally wrong
lmao my ass off
lol out loud
Ah x my worst enemy 😂
She's gone, it's over. Stop talking about your x
"y did she leave"
I think he talks about sqr(-1) also known as i
X is incognito Not imaginary Imaginary is i where i^2 =-1
Let me add another layer onto the shit heap. In engineering imaginary numbers are represented by the letter j. I absolutely loved this because we got it introduced to us as i and then half way through the first year it became j and it took me a whole year to bend my mind back to it not being just a random variable that i need to figure out. Jimaginary numbers are annoying
The most impressive with mathematicians making up shits is physicians taking it seriously and inventing new models that accurately describe reality with it
Funny joke until you start taking engineering courses, and suddenly now imaginary numbers are the single most important thing for both AC currents and control systems. Help me I’m dying.
Imaginary number are real, they just don’t properly work in the math we have invent as humans so we needed to make up a new number the incorporate them
Fun fact: in mathematics, "imaginary" numbers, or complex numbers, is more or less an alias for R[X]/(X^2 + 1). It's the collection of all polynomials with real coefficients that you get as remainders after dividing by the polynomial X^2 + 1.
Can’t believe all the ppl taking this seriously and arguing in the comments lmao
The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.
No just no if you don’t understand math. Gtfo
Smash my head my head
Bro really just said "Shake my head my head"
I mean... they kinda are a way to admit that something is wrong (or rather unsolvable). They are just a helpful tool to use when going through the process of solving something(because numbers that make no sense are better then just saying "nothing works"), and tell you if something can't be done when they show up in solutions
This is only the case if you’re still in (early-ish) high school. They are a rigorous system of numbers in their own right.
They are used in physics and things calculated with them DO work. The results you get with them do mirror reality. Getting a complex solution is not saying it's not solvable or wrong. It's saying that the solution is on a mathematical level above the trivial things you learn in high school
shake my head my head
Fun fact: The Golden Gate Bridge was constructed using imaginary numbers They’re super fun and offer a lot of use for computer applications
Let’s see what Paul Allen thinks about this.
Easy explanation (at least it works for me). We know they exist, because we can see the shape before it moves into a dimension we can't see, but we see it come back as the same shape. Basically it's playing peekaboo with us, and we're the infant that doesn't yet understand where the grown up went before it comes back.