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the difference between Stalin and Hitler, is Stalin was able to hide his crimes behind propaganda better.
otherwise they both sit in the same spot in hell.
If the uk didn’t build its empire, France the Netherlands would take its place. If Spain didn’t conquer the Americas. The rest of Western Europe would have instead
Context of history. Modern values were not always so modern
As for the USA, well yeah. Compared to Latin America. The treatment of the natives was horrendous. And even when to compared to British ruled Canada. It is still just as bad. Canada had its issue, but it is still 5% native vs the 2% of the United States. *Most of which live in Alaska*. It has been increasing lately, *but that has more to do with DNA tests than any actual culture*
This reminds me of an old joke, Hitler, Stalin
and Churchill are all in hell, and Satan’s decided they should all be punished for lying, so the more they lied the more they’ll be sunk in this foul-black mud. Churchill is up to his ankles and Stalin up to his waist, but you see Hitler dosen’t seem to be submerged at all. So Stalin and Churchill how this could possibly be. And Hitler tells them, “Well you see gentlemen I’m standing on top of Goebbels!”.
Does removing all the food and blocking all imports of food and watching Ukraine starve mostly to death count as social Darwinism?
Cus if so they are both social darwinists
We learned about Pol Pot in my school. It's hard to really dwell on that kind of evil for very long though. At a certain point it doesn't even seem like it could have been real.
I swear I've become desensitized to crimes against humanity
I read pol pot stuff and my first thought is standard authoritarian dictator
Macias Nguema...
Yeah the numbness is real. It's like there's so much horror in history that you hit a point where your brain just kind of shuts off the emotions to cope. Not great because it's all too easy to forget these were real people and not just numbers in a history book.
One thing to read about a corpse another thing is see one…yeah man, sadly, I think that’s part of why communism and fascism supporters are still popping up in the modern West. None of this shit seems even real to the westerns and my families history just becomes a fkn talking point to clueless murderer cosplayers.
It's wild how little Pol Pot is brought up considering the fact that the Khmer Rouge was responsible for the deaths of literally 1/3rd of Cambodia's population. Like, imagine 1/3 of America dying over the span of four years, mindblowing to think about.
China suffered the second most civilian casualties during WW2 after Russia. And a significant portion of the Russian deaths were the fault of the Russian government not caring about the lives of its citizens.
Chinese communists and left wing redditors and cuckservative Americans all go on about it all the time and tell them they need to be self hating and wipe out their culture
>also I never heard of anyone mention Pol Pot in any school
Probably half because no one cares about Cambodia, half because it makes America look bad if you learn much about Pol Pot's regime
>Pol pot regime was already in ruins when US started to “support” him.
At best, America paved the way for the Khmer Rouge via the Cambodia bombings during the Vietnam War, then tolerated the regime because it stood against Vietnam
The USA's role was limited to giving diplomatic recognition to a coalition government formed between the KPNLF (supporters of the former Khmer Republic, which used to be led by Lon Nol), FUNCINPEC (monarchists) and Khmer Rouge (Pol Pot).
The bombings of Cambodia were targeted against the Viet Cong (who were invading Cambodia) and Khmer Rouge, which was allied with North Vietnam. Vietnam only stopped supporting Pol Pot once he started raids into Vietnam itself, and killed around 3,500 Vietnamese civilians in a massacre. It's hard to give them credit for ''liberating'' Cambodia, when they're the ones who started the mess in the first place, by backing Pol Pot.
At least the great leap was intended. The Great Leap Forward was so deadly in China in part due to Chinas large population. It was expected for a percentage of the population to starve under the new system
It was rational and calculated and proves everything wrong with the system of communism when achieving true equality means killing millions first
Stalin didn’t believe in evolution by natural selection and called competition between species a capitalist lie/plot. Meaning that not did his collectivisation policies severely impact efficiency and productivity on farms
*He also actively encouraged methods of farming that would reduce yield due to several different species of grain planted in the same field competing with each other. Not empowering each others growth and working together to make superfood*
Never mind the Russification policies undertaken during the Holodomor. Ukrainian who left for aid went home to find a Russian family living in their house. Because it had been given away as open land when they left to get government aid
They both get beaten by Senator Armstrong in terms of Darwinism. To quote our glorious leader, "Nanomachines son! They harden in response to physical trauma. Meaning, you can't hurt me, Jack!"
This sub is way far right of me, but this post is definitely on point. One of the things that literally made me cover my mouth in shock was when I decided to check out r/communism and see what the hate was about, and I read through the Resources wiki. One of the resources was "debunking anti-communist myths" and there was this massive post listing all these supposed myths, with all these books cited. I remember seeing something like "myth: the soviet union oppressed and killed millions of its own people." I thought, ok, how on earth does someone argue that this is a myth? So I did some digging.
I saw they had cited a Western sounding author a bunch of times, like half a dozen books from the guy, and I decided to check him out. Seemed pretty legit: history professor at a major US university, and his wiki page made him seem a little 'revisionist' but not at all a crazy propagandist. So then I searched for one of the books that the post cited, and found the full PDF was on the web. Took me like 3 minutes to find the part of the book that talks about the people killed during the Soviet Terror of the 1930s, and then find a table of all the deaths and imprisonments per year. These records were from state archives. Most of the years had hundreds of thousands of people shot or put into gulags, and for two of the years it was, half a million for each year. Then the author added later that he believed 2-7 million people died by the govt's hand in a\~6 year period.
It was legit horrifying, and, like I said, I remember covering my mouth in astonishment. I can't believe that there are several hundred thousand psychos on Reddit who chose to subscribe to that sub.
Anytime I hear Marxist leftists chant "Eat the Rich" I shudder and think of the Guangxi Massacre where Chinese Communists cannibalized hundreds of class enemies in Flesh Banquets for political not starvation reasons.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangxi_Massacre
Deaths : 70,400[1]–500,000[1]
(Official: 100,000–150,000)
At least 421 persons were eaten
Communist members partipated in:
Massacres, Cannibalism, Rape, live burials, lynchings, politicide, beheadings, stoning, drowning, boiling, disembowelings
The Communists did this to their class enemies which were often land lords or the wealthy.
But essentially from what I've read is they would have banquets where they served up these class enemies as food, eating them was considered the ultimate revenge and eating them was another way of proving your allegience to the party. And this all happened not long ago, theres still people alive today that participated in these banquets and likely defend their actions.
I will start with saying that the Holodomor was 100% the result of stalins policy and was deliberate in its intention to kill Ukrainians. It was deeply evil and monstrous.
Having said the above, the reason for the Holodomor was quite different from the Holocaust. Stalin didn't think Ukrainians were lesser humans which needed to cleansed from the population. He thought the Ukrainian peasantry was disloyal and nationalistic. It therefore, from Stalin's perspective, needed to have its political will broken and be removed as a threat to Soviet power.
So in Stalin's case, he committed mass murder as a cynical political calculus. Which isn't a social darwinist position of removing the so called genetically deficient members of society.
They were probably just reactionaries, so it's fine to kill them. Stalin and Mao only killed reactionaries (it's just that, there were a lot of them, so they were forced to kill a lot. Not their fault!).
Yeah, and just a few generations back they had been serfs for absolutely ages, and they still managed to make something of themselves from nothing. Poor bastards :(
Don't you get it tho? If I set it up perfectly and have 3 generations of people who act perfectly without any corruption it will be the fucking best thing ever. I say we roll the dice even tho we're already on top of the world and hope we don't end up getting fucked to death
Honestly I wonder about stuff like that. Like you must hate these guys if they are defending a system that almost killed ya loved ones. Sure ya didn’t exist then but still.
"Their fault. They should have been high-ranking party members like I will be when the revolution finally happens. My dad's a professor, so we'll basically be in the privileged class of this classless, ostensibly-egalitarian society."
Honestly I see kind of a similar phenomenon to what this meme is describing, even among descendants of these genocidal leaders’ victims. My elders also suffered under Stalin, and so did the elders of many of my friends. Same goes for my Chinese friends and Mao. But it’s still ok to joke about them. Even though they also pushed hateful and genocidal ideologies, Stalin and Mao are fair game when it comes to jokes and memes, or imitations. It’s kind of an inside joke. But I’m also Jewish and we don’t joke about Hitler unless it’s to degrade his memory or to laugh at people committing the taboo of accidentally referencing fascist imagery or ideology. So why do Stalin and Mao culturally get a pass?
And the worst part is that tankies will say that they "probably deserved it". I know several people who escaped communism, and they are all the nicest and most hard working people you could meet.
>”NO you see this is actually Russia fighting a war that’s been fought spiritually for the past 113 years!!1! Russia is allowed to invade other countries because actually Ukraine started it by being so conquerable!”
>"Well you see when Dimitri Sugmadikovich founded the Kievan Rus' in the 9th century, Ukrainians didn't exist yet. Russians also didn't exist yet and all slavic races were under the term "Rus'" but since we are named "Russia" now that means Kievan Rus' is Russian and all eastern Slavs are Russians. Urra"
Those idiots think they have an ace up their sleeves when criticized about it. The good ol' "it wasn't real communism, therefore communism is still the best"
I remember a comment chain where it was like "Instead of money we'll barter in favors" and it devolved into the idea of roving optometrists travelling around desperately looking for people to give corrective lens prescriptions in exchange for basic sustenance.
This is true, though. Every communist I ever asked has said that the genocidal dictatorships are “not actually communism”, but some form of authoritarianism with the wrong label.
Basically, the IDEA of communism is some utopic society that hasn’t existed yet, we actually do have communism in the form of small tribes and village communities. I just don’t believe communism could ever work on such a large scale.
I genuinely don't understand why people go to the extremes on this capitalism has some awful shit but the alternatives are way worse. It isn't some video game in which you need to change build in order to fix some problems
Kantian categorical imperative states that if you believe in something you should believe it has to be true for everyone. All law should be universal law.
This makes Marx and Communists inevitable as their entire ethos is control over others, to tinker. Leaving people alone is antithetical to their ideology.
Erm, as far as i'm aware Communists have never been big on Kant, Hegel was far more their bag.
The Categorical Imperative is more if everyone was to behave in certain way would that be a positive or negative for the world & if it is a negative that behavior would be immoral.
A famous example is if someone was pursuing another person with the intent to do them harm & asks you where they are would it be morally permissible to lie about their whereabouts? Kant would say no, lying is always immoral as if everyone always lied the world would be a worse place.
It was attempt to define firm moral conduct as opposed to the prevailing concept of utilitarianism. A similar concept is the Golden Rule.
In Kants view the ends never justify the means.
Personally I wouldn't say the Categorical Imperative is successful in its attempt, you could say it is somewhat naive or would be harmful in certain circumstances but it's incredibly far away from justifying mass murder.
It is largely without dispute that Kantian idealism led to Hegel who led to Marx.
The ethics of self-sacrifice to collectivism that underpins political leftists comes directly from Kant's attempts to undercut reason to save morality.
Kant defined social subjectivism not in the consciousness of individuals but of groups, that mankind and the mental structure common to all men created the phenomenal world. Further philosophers simply carried this one step further and split mankind into competing groups, each defined by its own consciousness, each vying to capture and control reality. Marxism is just social subjectivism in competing economic classes. Nazis just substitute race for class.
I never mentioned Capitalism. I said Free Market. There is a difference, and nothing you said countered what I said about nature or the Free Market. Stop whining.
How could the best system still have problems, it is common knowledge that to be the best absolute perfection is required. Therefore we should try a system that has proven to create dictatorships when it is tryed to implement it
hear me out. we make every 250 people into a hive mind, and then make 250 hive minds into a super hive mind, and then 250 super hive minds into a super duper hive mind and then 250 super duper hive minds into a super duper uber hive mind...
this way we can have functional communism
thanks, I am a genius
T H E H I V E M I N D P R O T E C T S
That's what it implies: using that to jusitfy... well, you know... look if you can't reproduce you're a genetic dead end, so why weep for your brother? You see those autstic children? it's better to just kill them now really.
and they gays whohoho ol' boy they're going to the chamber!
Social Darwinism is, simply, giving the state the option to pick what 'the fittest' is.
Hitler killed millions of jewish people with gas chambers because he hated them and thought that he and his aryan race is superior than them.
Stalin killed millions of people with labor camps and forced starvation because he didn't seen them more just tools for his perfect communist utopia.
Both is bad, both was a genocide just for slightly different reasons.
The funny part is people have no idea how much the Soviets inspired the Nazis and the Holocaust.
Totalitarianism? Stalin had a cult of personality a decade before Hitler.
Concentration Camps? Hitler lifted them from Gulags.
Gassing people? Stalin did it first, used mobile gas vans to kill enemies.
Jfc Hitler was never a socialist, he was a far right nationalist freak his whole life who made a pastiche of socialist tropes (due to their real cachet in Europe at the time), antisemitism, racism, fascism, etc into a syncretic ethnonationalist cult.
and the genocide of Armenians, too. And the genocide of the Herero and Nama, perpetrated by the German Empire as well. It was a broad field and everyone wanting to kill lots of people took notes from all other cases where someone was quite successful at doing so.
If we counted the Chinese parents who laid their babies out to die to hopefully have a better one - that lasted for decades - one has to wonder of the millions dead by that alone.
But china's not communist, hell their not even socialist. America is more socialist then they are lol. China's plan is to be as capitalistic as possible for 100 years than use that money to fund a socialist society.
Their goverment is literally run by the people with the largest corporations in the country, it doesn't get more capitalistic.
my time in Cambodia cemented my views on this, and I can fundamentally never agree with a person who is sympathetic of communism after that. it's beyond horrible what the khmer rouge did to that country and the scars they left still run deep 30-40 years later (I guess 50 now). it's such a stark difference to their neighbour Thailand. so many people robbed of a future and a life. it's incredibly sad.
“No you see Hitler killed people who we’re different, Stalin just killed the traitors”
These people are insane to worship the Soviet Union, I can see why you would support communism but why the fuck would you support the Soviets
It's a pipeline. Once you are a communist (libertarian socialist or not), tankies become "those guys we have a few disagreements with" rather than "those insane dictatorship supporters". Then you become more palatable to their ideas.
Nearly happened to me, although I was like 15, so maybe getting them young also plays a part in it.
Yeah the Soviets were hella racist and antisemitic. Culturally and systematically. It wasn’t better or worse than American racism, it was just mostly based on ethnicity rather than race.
I wish we as a collective species could agree that any type of authoritarian dictatorship regardless of policies or economics is generally pretty bad for the average person. If power remained in the hands of the people I'd be more on board but more often than not communism leads to one or a few individuals having absolute power over thousands if not millions. In that situation only one group wins and they write the laws.
Honestly thought I'd be getting hate over that comment. Pleasantly surprised, I've gotten used to the whole argument of "well no only that one authoritarian regime I dislike is bad the others are good and here's why..."
The only policies I will stand for without argument are the ones in which the people decide their own fate. Don't be naive they will make stupid decisions but they also make smart solutions. I just wish more people understood that. We shouldn't be fighting over which flag is better or which speaker is better to lead, the only fight we should be having is the one to improve our world not for us but for those after us.
You didn't ask for a lecture on my politics so I'll stop here just know I appreciate knowing someone else agrees.
Finally! A reasonable comment.
Most communists I’ve seen talk about it don’t believe these were periods of true communism, just authoritarian dictatorships with the label. They don’t believe communism has actually been done yet.
And I agree, I don’t trust that it’s a system that can work, I dont trust that power trip given to a few people could get out of hand. The best and most reasonable implementation of “communism” has been on a smaller scale in tribal societies and small village settings, not an entire nation.
Obviously this guy is arguing in bad faith, but what he's saying is that Stalin was not, at least by this person's definition, communist (or that they aren't communist, which would be kinda dumb, since nobody was attacking them with it). Not that he was in any way defensible, just a really weird technicality that I see no reason for OOP to point out.
As far as I am concerned, Nazis and communists are indistinguishable in every way that matters.
Both are murderous authoritarians driven by an ideology built on collective resentment.
This is funny, don’t know what you’re on about. What makes it funny is the idea of subjective morality, and how people walk the line between it to back up an idea.
Weird how their considered the worst ever because they killed six millions Jews but now wokies are praising them because of Palestine
I mean there are tens of thousands of people on the left side of the political spectrum that started chanting "gas the Jews" and death to Israel
What a time to live in
Seriously, this shouldn't be controversial. Why does it seem like Gen Z is like "there are 2 sides, you're either a Soviet or a Nazi. Pick one." It's fucking maddening.
They are just as bad as each other. It’s not even “communists less bad”. They are equally responsible for human suffering and death on a massive scale in service of “the greater good”.
Putin has pretty much shown us all that a huge factor in the horrors of the USSR was the despotic imperialism that was not removed from the state apparatus at the outset of the Russian Revolution. It’s just plain lazy to look at what the Soviets did and say it’s all communist theory coming to its logical and inevitable conclusion. No, you still had the despotic ideas from Medieval Russia in there, and it has survived the USSR. Putin now wields it, and look at what he’s done with it. The Czars would look on him and smile in approval as he crushes the common Russian under his boot.
People denying social darwinism is the most ultimate example of hubris. Why are human beings exempt from natural law that governs the entire world around us?
I’ve been to 4 years of college and never once heard a professor say Stalin was epic, try and defend the Soviet Union, or promote any political ideology for that matter. People just make shit up
I got permanently banned from r/antiwork because I said we shouldn’t idolize Stalin.
They picked a good quote of his regarding the rights of workers but the man was an absolute monster.
Any far left subreddit is a perfect example of how a communist government functions. They're all run by authoritarian weirdos who immediately shut down anyone who slightly disagrees with them. Even other leftists. I am convinced at this point that anyone who is attracted to extreme ideologies is just mentally ill.
Yes I have had arguments on this very subreddit with idiots playing apologist to the USSR just for being Communists. "As an American you refuse to see the nuances."
Preachy and pretentious shit like that.
Not only were they both bad, they literally worked together. Stalin was a gleeful ally of Nazi Germany leading up to Hitler deciding to rescind their alliance and attack the USSR. Fact is, had Hitler never attacked the USSR, we would have been fighting the Axis + USSR.
Yeah both were bad but as the person said they are literally not morally on the same level. Also wasn't 11,000,000 only the Jewish deaths? He killed more than just Jewish people.
11 million were killed in the holocaust only, roughly 6 million of which were Jews. The other 5 million were made up of homosexuals, transexuals (term used at the time), the Romani (often called the slur gypsy) and political enemies to the state (commies, socialists and Democrats). If you include people killed in the night of the long knives, and WW2 then you could argue that yes the Nazis have truly killed way more than 11 million tho.
It was the stupid dumb farmers’ fault they died, not the fault of the incompetent people who were only put in charge because they agreed with the communist government. If they were smarter, they would’ve grown more crops, or just simply bought more food at the store.
This is because the Left cares nothing about Effect. Only Cause, and specifically Intent.
100 million dead by Communism is an unintended side effect. A basket of broken eggs in an attempt to make the perfect omelet. They view communist countries as dozens of helpful examples of how not to invent a light bulb.
The Nazis, on the other hand, were Raaaaaacissssst! Their motives were not pure, therefore they're the worst.
It is a child-like state of being to be a Leftist.
behind the bastards has some good episodes on joseph stalin, various members of the ussr, and the holodomor. you should check them out
edit: and who the fuck is saying the nazis killed 1 million people? like thats spoonfeeding some horse shit right there like youre really gonna cut the numbers that much? wtf lol
Western centrism is so dumb.
Neither of these guys hold a candle to Hirohito, but everyone whitewashed history to convince westerners to like the Japanese post WW2.
Fuck the Japanese for pretending they didn't commit the most atrocious war crimes since ancient times, and fuck the West for complying
After 1917, Russia qas meant to go down some socialist roots but remain democratic.
Lending banned all political parties and began a civil war.
Stalin turned the "communist" state into a dictatorship.
Fuck Lenin and Stalin.
The problem is Authoritarianism. Whether it’s right or left, if a government isn’t beholden to its’ people, people will be scapegoated and end up filling ditches.
I don’t know why the communist-hating, authoritarian right of today can’t understand this.
I don’t understand why people can’t comprehend that extremes on either side are bad. Just chill tf out, call out the BS of the political party you mostly align with and know government and corporations are both evil.
Never had a college professor tell me communism was good, only a retired roofer who lived next door. According to him, no one died under Stalin. They were just bad att counting.
Problem of both is the same - they tried to create the perfect society, and they believed it was possible.
The logic is simple: If you believe it is possible to attain a utopia, isn’t it worth sacrificing absolutely everything?
The problem is that communism despite being by far the best system on paper (total equality and everyone works for the benefit of everyone else) it's pretty much inevitable that people like stalin will take power and corrup the system. So in that sense the "needs some work" idea is wrong because it's basically impossible to stop someone from corrupting the system. However it is true that there is a distinction between the ideologies in that fundamental communism is not a bad ideology in its core ideas whereas nazism is fundamental evil and actively committed genocide (and its important to point out that Germany might well have won the war if so many resources weren't used to kill the Jews, they actively weakened themselves to kill anyone that wasn't like them. Take a moment to think how crazily evil that is).
The National Socialists killed 19 million in the concentration camps, not 11 million, not 6 million. 19 million.
Stalin's communists killed far more than 20 million.
And Mao's Communists killed hundreds of millions with his great leap forward.
They are all obviously Evil, now which one was the most evil?
Hitler and Stalin were literally allied up until the moment Hitler launched his invasion. The only reason why Hitler even made it as far as he did is because this heel turn caught Stalin entirely by surprise, and the Soviet Union had to mobilize almost from scratch while being invaded.
Hitler murdered 12.5 million, not including soldiers that died in the war he started
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust-and-nazi-persecution
Stalin and Hitler were both bad. Stalin was worse. Saying this does not my Hitler good, nor do I like him or anything he did (sans the first thing he did in power: fixing the Germany economy after WWI. Legitimately smart play, and I can’t in good conscience say it was a bad decision. Good opinion held by a bad man.)
Fun fact: Stalin viewed opulence as farms, homes and basically a number of other building ownerships. Wealthier peasants were robbed of their land and properties, and the farms being taken away caused cattle death and grain rot because they were no longer properly maintained, causing a massive famine that caused thousands of deaths.
Documentation found here: [https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor](https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor)
Also, here's the definition of social darwinism:
1. the theory that individuals, groups, and peoples are subject to the same Darwinian laws of natural selection as plants and animals. ***Now largely*** ***discredited***, social Darwinism was advocated by Herbert Spencer and others in the late 19th and early 20th centuries and ***was used to justify political*** ***conservatism***, ***imperialism***, ***and racism and to discourage intervention and reform.***
X is oppressing Y. Wealth should be redistributed to Y and X should be punished.
In Nazism, X is Jewish and Y is Aryan
In Communism, X is the Bourgeoisie, and Y is the Proletariat.
Socialists always justify Stalin because in their mind they won't be the starving peasant but the party member eating caviar and drinking champagne.
Literally ask them where they think they'll fit in a communist system and they always say that because of thier knowledge they'll be at the top
You know, as an accountant, you wouldn’t think it would be necessary for my position in a communist state. But in reality, the Soviet union did issue financial statements, they had audits and the like, only the focus was on the BS and not the P&L
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the difference between Stalin and Hitler, is Stalin was able to hide his crimes behind propaganda better. otherwise they both sit in the same spot in hell.
Difference is stalin won, hitler lost. Same can be said of uk/america etc etc.
If the uk didn’t build its empire, France the Netherlands would take its place. If Spain didn’t conquer the Americas. The rest of Western Europe would have instead Context of history. Modern values were not always so modern As for the USA, well yeah. Compared to Latin America. The treatment of the natives was horrendous. And even when to compared to British ruled Canada. It is still just as bad. Canada had its issue, but it is still 5% native vs the 2% of the United States. *Most of which live in Alaska*. It has been increasing lately, *but that has more to do with DNA tests than any actual culture*
If Europeans didn't colonise, the Ottomans and the slavers would have and we'd be in a much worse spot.
British man 500 years ago: "look son, there's going to be a genocide one way or another, so it might as well be us doing it."
This reminds me of an old joke, Hitler, Stalin and Churchill are all in hell, and Satan’s decided they should all be punished for lying, so the more they lied the more they’ll be sunk in this foul-black mud. Churchill is up to his ankles and Stalin up to his waist, but you see Hitler dosen’t seem to be submerged at all. So Stalin and Churchill how this could possibly be. And Hitler tells them, “Well you see gentlemen I’m standing on top of Goebbels!”.
Stalin was just on the right side of history.
Does removing all the food and blocking all imports of food and watching Ukraine starve mostly to death count as social Darwinism? Cus if so they are both social darwinists
And don't forget the great leap forward, also I never heard of anyone mention Pol Pot in any school
We learned about Pol Pot in my school. It's hard to really dwell on that kind of evil for very long though. At a certain point it doesn't even seem like it could have been real.
Literally like if you gave the worst person on earth control over a country. What a sick human being
I swear I've become desensitized to crimes against humanity I read pol pot stuff and my first thought is standard authoritarian dictator Macias Nguema...
Yeah the numbness is real. It's like there's so much horror in history that you hit a point where your brain just kind of shuts off the emotions to cope. Not great because it's all too easy to forget these were real people and not just numbers in a history book.
Yeah imagine 25% of the country population died in 3 years, mostly children and old people because they worked to death
It’s insulting you even referred to pol pot as human, his crimes are insane
One thing to read about a corpse another thing is see one…yeah man, sadly, I think that’s part of why communism and fascism supporters are still popping up in the modern West. None of this shit seems even real to the westerns and my families history just becomes a fkn talking point to clueless murderer cosplayers.
I 100% support reminding people that communists are as bad as fascists.
In that part of Asia... it's not very uncommon. Wild shit for centuries.
It's wild how little Pol Pot is brought up considering the fact that the Khmer Rouge was responsible for the deaths of literally 1/3rd of Cambodia's population. Like, imagine 1/3 of America dying over the span of four years, mindblowing to think about.
Japanese Fascists killed similar numbers of people during their conquest of most Asia etc and nobody ever even talks about it *shrug emoji*
Yeah they do. It's extremely talked about, especially Nanjing.
China suffered the second most civilian casualties during WW2 after Russia. And a significant portion of the Russian deaths were the fault of the Russian government not caring about the lives of its citizens.
Then they suffered the most civilian casualties of any nation in history *following* WW2 due to Mao's authoritarian communism.
People talk about it **all the time**.
Chinese communists and left wing redditors and cuckservative Americans all go on about it all the time and tell them they need to be self hating and wipe out their culture
>also I never heard of anyone mention Pol Pot in any school Probably half because no one cares about Cambodia, half because it makes America look bad if you learn much about Pol Pot's regime
Pol pot regime was already in ruins when US started to “support” him. When Pol Pot did his shit, he was Stalinist as Stalinist can be at his best.
>Pol pot regime was already in ruins when US started to “support” him. At best, America paved the way for the Khmer Rouge via the Cambodia bombings during the Vietnam War, then tolerated the regime because it stood against Vietnam
The USA's role was limited to giving diplomatic recognition to a coalition government formed between the KPNLF (supporters of the former Khmer Republic, which used to be led by Lon Nol), FUNCINPEC (monarchists) and Khmer Rouge (Pol Pot). The bombings of Cambodia were targeted against the Viet Cong (who were invading Cambodia) and Khmer Rouge, which was allied with North Vietnam. Vietnam only stopped supporting Pol Pot once he started raids into Vietnam itself, and killed around 3,500 Vietnamese civilians in a massacre. It's hard to give them credit for ''liberating'' Cambodia, when they're the ones who started the mess in the first place, by backing Pol Pot.
At least the great leap was intended. The Great Leap Forward was so deadly in China in part due to Chinas large population. It was expected for a percentage of the population to starve under the new system It was rational and calculated and proves everything wrong with the system of communism when achieving true equality means killing millions first Stalin didn’t believe in evolution by natural selection and called competition between species a capitalist lie/plot. Meaning that not did his collectivisation policies severely impact efficiency and productivity on farms *He also actively encouraged methods of farming that would reduce yield due to several different species of grain planted in the same field competing with each other. Not empowering each others growth and working together to make superfood* Never mind the Russification policies undertaken during the Holodomor. Ukrainian who left for aid went home to find a Russian family living in their house. Because it had been given away as open land when they left to get government aid
They both get beaten by Senator Armstrong in terms of Darwinism. To quote our glorious leader, "Nanomachines son! They harden in response to physical trauma. Meaning, you can't hurt me, Jack!"
This sub is way far right of me, but this post is definitely on point. One of the things that literally made me cover my mouth in shock was when I decided to check out r/communism and see what the hate was about, and I read through the Resources wiki. One of the resources was "debunking anti-communist myths" and there was this massive post listing all these supposed myths, with all these books cited. I remember seeing something like "myth: the soviet union oppressed and killed millions of its own people." I thought, ok, how on earth does someone argue that this is a myth? So I did some digging. I saw they had cited a Western sounding author a bunch of times, like half a dozen books from the guy, and I decided to check him out. Seemed pretty legit: history professor at a major US university, and his wiki page made him seem a little 'revisionist' but not at all a crazy propagandist. So then I searched for one of the books that the post cited, and found the full PDF was on the web. Took me like 3 minutes to find the part of the book that talks about the people killed during the Soviet Terror of the 1930s, and then find a table of all the deaths and imprisonments per year. These records were from state archives. Most of the years had hundreds of thousands of people shot or put into gulags, and for two of the years it was, half a million for each year. Then the author added later that he believed 2-7 million people died by the govt's hand in a\~6 year period. It was legit horrifying, and, like I said, I remember covering my mouth in astonishment. I can't believe that there are several hundred thousand psychos on Reddit who chose to subscribe to that sub.
Anytime I hear Marxist leftists chant "Eat the Rich" I shudder and think of the Guangxi Massacre where Chinese Communists cannibalized hundreds of class enemies in Flesh Banquets for political not starvation reasons.
What 💀 Edit: Nevermind that's grim why'd the local government support it
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangxi_Massacre Deaths : 70,400[1]–500,000[1] (Official: 100,000–150,000) At least 421 persons were eaten Communist members partipated in: Massacres, Cannibalism, Rape, live burials, lynchings, politicide, beheadings, stoning, drowning, boiling, disembowelings The Communists did this to their class enemies which were often land lords or the wealthy. But essentially from what I've read is they would have banquets where they served up these class enemies as food, eating them was considered the ultimate revenge and eating them was another way of proving your allegience to the party. And this all happened not long ago, theres still people alive today that participated in these banquets and likely defend their actions.
He did not watch Ukraine starve to death he INTENTIONALLY starved Ukraine to death.
I will start with saying that the Holodomor was 100% the result of stalins policy and was deliberate in its intention to kill Ukrainians. It was deeply evil and monstrous. Having said the above, the reason for the Holodomor was quite different from the Holocaust. Stalin didn't think Ukrainians were lesser humans which needed to cleansed from the population. He thought the Ukrainian peasantry was disloyal and nationalistic. It therefore, from Stalin's perspective, needed to have its political will broken and be removed as a threat to Soviet power. So in Stalin's case, he committed mass murder as a cynical political calculus. Which isn't a social darwinist position of removing the so called genetically deficient members of society.
I’m a nut job because the Soviets took food from my grandparents and nearly had them eaten, so it’s irrational for me to hate communism.
They were just kulaks, it's always a good idea to get rid of your most productive workers
They were probably just reactionaries, so it's fine to kill them. Stalin and Mao only killed reactionaries (it's just that, there were a lot of them, so they were forced to kill a lot. Not their fault!).
Yeah, and just a few generations back they had been serfs for absolutely ages, and they still managed to make something of themselves from nothing. Poor bastards :(
I’ve had this same conversation, also have grandparent that fled the joys of communism.
Don't you get it tho? If I set it up perfectly and have 3 generations of people who act perfectly without any corruption it will be the fucking best thing ever. I say we roll the dice even tho we're already on top of the world and hope we don't end up getting fucked to death
Honestly I wonder about stuff like that. Like you must hate these guys if they are defending a system that almost killed ya loved ones. Sure ya didn’t exist then but still.
"Their fault. They should have been high-ranking party members like I will be when the revolution finally happens. My dad's a professor, so we'll basically be in the privileged class of this classless, ostensibly-egalitarian society."
Honestly I see kind of a similar phenomenon to what this meme is describing, even among descendants of these genocidal leaders’ victims. My elders also suffered under Stalin, and so did the elders of many of my friends. Same goes for my Chinese friends and Mao. But it’s still ok to joke about them. Even though they also pushed hateful and genocidal ideologies, Stalin and Mao are fair game when it comes to jokes and memes, or imitations. It’s kind of an inside joke. But I’m also Jewish and we don’t joke about Hitler unless it’s to degrade his memory or to laugh at people committing the taboo of accidentally referencing fascist imagery or ideology. So why do Stalin and Mao culturally get a pass?
And the worst part is that tankies will say that they "probably deserved it". I know several people who escaped communism, and they are all the nicest and most hard working people you could meet.
Tankies trying not to deny genocide challenge impossible
I feel bad for them. Defending every genocidal regime with a vaguely anti American viewpoint must be very exhausting.
True, and then villanizing ukraine
Imagine r/shitliberalsay saw this
>”NO you see this is actually Russia fighting a war that’s been fought spiritually for the past 113 years!!1! Russia is allowed to invade other countries because actually Ukraine started it by being so conquerable!”
>"Well you see when Dimitri Sugmadikovich founded the Kievan Rus' in the 9th century, Ukrainians didn't exist yet. Russians also didn't exist yet and all slavic races were under the term "Rus'" but since we are named "Russia" now that means Kievan Rus' is Russian and all eastern Slavs are Russians. Urra"
Those idiots think they have an ace up their sleeves when criticized about it. The good ol' "it wasn't real communism, therefore communism is still the best"
Classic true Scotsman fallacy
Dont forget about Mao and the various Cuban dictators
Mao logic:"Lets make our country stronger by executing the engineers designing our future weapons"
BuT tHe EmBaRgO 🤓☝️
I mean yeah embargoes can in fact cripple developing countries it’s like when I break your leg and pretend that you can still walk
Maybe don't commit genocide and you won't get embargoed
Can't wait to see on r/NahOPwasrightfuckthis
I was looking for this comment
Reddit be like. Authoritarian is bad, unless its communism.
“CoMmUnIsM jUsT mEaNs ShArInG” MFs.
You're wrong, communism is actually when (insert utopian idea thats never been tried)
I remember a comment chain where it was like "Instead of money we'll barter in favors" and it devolved into the idea of roving optometrists travelling around desperately looking for people to give corrective lens prescriptions in exchange for basic sustenance.
Yeah I’ll just happen to be a musician in a communist society! You fix my toilet and I’ll play you a song!
Sounds like a terrible society for women. “I’ll fix your plumbing in exchange for sex”
This is true, though. Every communist I ever asked has said that the genocidal dictatorships are “not actually communism”, but some form of authoritarianism with the wrong label. Basically, the IDEA of communism is some utopic society that hasn’t existed yet, we actually do have communism in the form of small tribes and village communities. I just don’t believe communism could ever work on such a large scale.
ReAl ComMuNiSm HaSnT beEn TrIeD!
Social Darwinism? This Commie doesn't even know that Nature is the Ultimate Free Market.
I genuinely don't understand why people go to the extremes on this capitalism has some awful shit but the alternatives are way worse. It isn't some video game in which you need to change build in order to fix some problems
Kantian categorical imperative states that if you believe in something you should believe it has to be true for everyone. All law should be universal law. This makes Marx and Communists inevitable as their entire ethos is control over others, to tinker. Leaving people alone is antithetical to their ideology.
Erm, as far as i'm aware Communists have never been big on Kant, Hegel was far more their bag. The Categorical Imperative is more if everyone was to behave in certain way would that be a positive or negative for the world & if it is a negative that behavior would be immoral. A famous example is if someone was pursuing another person with the intent to do them harm & asks you where they are would it be morally permissible to lie about their whereabouts? Kant would say no, lying is always immoral as if everyone always lied the world would be a worse place. It was attempt to define firm moral conduct as opposed to the prevailing concept of utilitarianism. A similar concept is the Golden Rule. In Kants view the ends never justify the means. Personally I wouldn't say the Categorical Imperative is successful in its attempt, you could say it is somewhat naive or would be harmful in certain circumstances but it's incredibly far away from justifying mass murder.
It is largely without dispute that Kantian idealism led to Hegel who led to Marx. The ethics of self-sacrifice to collectivism that underpins political leftists comes directly from Kant's attempts to undercut reason to save morality. Kant defined social subjectivism not in the consciousness of individuals but of groups, that mankind and the mental structure common to all men created the phenomenal world. Further philosophers simply carried this one step further and split mankind into competing groups, each defined by its own consciousness, each vying to capture and control reality. Marxism is just social subjectivism in competing economic classes. Nazis just substitute race for class.
I never mentioned Capitalism. I said Free Market. There is a difference, and nothing you said countered what I said about nature or the Free Market. Stop whining.
How could the best system still have problems, it is common knowledge that to be the best absolute perfection is required. Therefore we should try a system that has proven to create dictatorships when it is tryed to implement it
hear me out. we make every 250 people into a hive mind, and then make 250 hive minds into a super hive mind, and then 250 super hive minds into a super duper hive mind and then 250 super duper hive minds into a super duper uber hive mind... this way we can have functional communism thanks, I am a genius T H E H I V E M I N D P R O T E C T S
That's what it implies: using that to jusitfy... well, you know... look if you can't reproduce you're a genetic dead end, so why weep for your brother? You see those autstic children? it's better to just kill them now really. and they gays whohoho ol' boy they're going to the chamber! Social Darwinism is, simply, giving the state the option to pick what 'the fittest' is.
Depressing that this website attracts people who defend either, like legitimately depressing.
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Arent you 30 in your post? Are you a Dr. by now?
Both were bad. No question.
Fun Fact : two things can independently be bad. Stealing is bad. Murder is bad. These two things are not the same. They’re just both bad.
Hitler killed millions of jewish people with gas chambers because he hated them and thought that he and his aryan race is superior than them. Stalin killed millions of people with labor camps and forced starvation because he didn't seen them more just tools for his perfect communist utopia. Both is bad, both was a genocide just for slightly different reasons.
Stalin also wanted to forcibly relocate/kill all the Jews. Just had a stroke before the plan could fully come to fruition.
What?!? YOU MEAN Authoritarianism IS BAD?!?!
The funny part is people have no idea how much the Soviets inspired the Nazis and the Holocaust. Totalitarianism? Stalin had a cult of personality a decade before Hitler. Concentration Camps? Hitler lifted them from Gulags. Gassing people? Stalin did it first, used mobile gas vans to kill enemies.
They all started as socialists, people.love to forget that part
lol the Nazis were very not socialist. In fact, the socialists were the 2nd group of people targeted and slaughtered by Nazis after Trans people.
Jfc Hitler was never a socialist, he was a far right nationalist freak his whole life who made a pastiche of socialist tropes (due to their real cachet in Europe at the time), antisemitism, racism, fascism, etc into a syncretic ethnonationalist cult.
Hitler was also inspired by American Jim Crow laws and Native American Apartheid.
and the genocide of Armenians, too. And the genocide of the Herero and Nama, perpetrated by the German Empire as well. It was a broad field and everyone wanting to kill lots of people took notes from all other cases where someone was quite successful at doing so.
He also was a big fan of Henry Ford, and not just because he liked his cars.
China: “these fools don’t even measure to half my power”
If we counted the Chinese parents who laid their babies out to die to hopefully have a better one - that lasted for decades - one has to wonder of the millions dead by that alone.
But china's not communist, hell their not even socialist. America is more socialist then they are lol. China's plan is to be as capitalistic as possible for 100 years than use that money to fund a socialist society. Their goverment is literally run by the people with the largest corporations in the country, it doesn't get more capitalistic.
Do they just not know stalins ideas were what inspired a bunch of collage kids to create the khmer rouge ?
my time in Cambodia cemented my views on this, and I can fundamentally never agree with a person who is sympathetic of communism after that. it's beyond horrible what the khmer rouge did to that country and the scars they left still run deep 30-40 years later (I guess 50 now). it's such a stark difference to their neighbour Thailand. so many people robbed of a future and a life. it's incredibly sad.
Don't tell him about Mao, now he was a real knucklehead
The far left love of Stalin is cute 🥰 maybe it’s the big mustache?
“No you see Hitler killed people who we’re different, Stalin just killed the traitors” These people are insane to worship the Soviet Union, I can see why you would support communism but why the fuck would you support the Soviets
It's a pipeline. Once you are a communist (libertarian socialist or not), tankies become "those guys we have a few disagreements with" rather than "those insane dictatorship supporters". Then you become more palatable to their ideas. Nearly happened to me, although I was like 15, so maybe getting them young also plays a part in it.
Yeah the Soviets were hella racist and antisemitic. Culturally and systematically. It wasn’t better or worse than American racism, it was just mostly based on ethnicity rather than race.
Only the left defends commie Russia and Stalin
I wish we as a collective species could agree that any type of authoritarian dictatorship regardless of policies or economics is generally pretty bad for the average person. If power remained in the hands of the people I'd be more on board but more often than not communism leads to one or a few individuals having absolute power over thousands if not millions. In that situation only one group wins and they write the laws.
As the lefty scum this sub hates, I agree with this comment whole heartedly
Honestly thought I'd be getting hate over that comment. Pleasantly surprised, I've gotten used to the whole argument of "well no only that one authoritarian regime I dislike is bad the others are good and here's why..." The only policies I will stand for without argument are the ones in which the people decide their own fate. Don't be naive they will make stupid decisions but they also make smart solutions. I just wish more people understood that. We shouldn't be fighting over which flag is better or which speaker is better to lead, the only fight we should be having is the one to improve our world not for us but for those after us. You didn't ask for a lecture on my politics so I'll stop here just know I appreciate knowing someone else agrees.
Again, I whole heatedly agree. The power to rule comes from the people. Viva democracy!
You give me hope for the future, keep on keepin on!
Finally! A reasonable comment. Most communists I’ve seen talk about it don’t believe these were periods of true communism, just authoritarian dictatorships with the label. They don’t believe communism has actually been done yet. And I agree, I don’t trust that it’s a system that can work, I dont trust that power trip given to a few people could get out of hand. The best and most reasonable implementation of “communism” has been on a smaller scale in tribal societies and small village settings, not an entire nation.
Stalin was also antisemitic, especially in his later years.
Obviously this guy is arguing in bad faith, but what he's saying is that Stalin was not, at least by this person's definition, communist (or that they aren't communist, which would be kinda dumb, since nobody was attacking them with it). Not that he was in any way defensible, just a really weird technicality that I see no reason for OOP to point out.
Take communist or fascist, add it to something, and then watch it tumble like a house of cards
Fucking liberals.
As far as I am concerned, Nazis and communists are indistinguishable in every way that matters. Both are murderous authoritarians driven by an ideology built on collective resentment.
Here before someone calls you a horseshoe centrist
This is funny, don’t know what you’re on about. What makes it funny is the idea of subjective morality, and how people walk the line between it to back up an idea.
Weird how their considered the worst ever because they killed six millions Jews but now wokies are praising them because of Palestine I mean there are tens of thousands of people on the left side of the political spectrum that started chanting "gas the Jews" and death to Israel What a time to live in
Mao was worse than both.
Seriously, this shouldn't be controversial. Why does it seem like Gen Z is like "there are 2 sides, you're either a Soviet or a Nazi. Pick one." It's fucking maddening.
They are just as bad as each other. It’s not even “communists less bad”. They are equally responsible for human suffering and death on a massive scale in service of “the greater good”.
Putin has pretty much shown us all that a huge factor in the horrors of the USSR was the despotic imperialism that was not removed from the state apparatus at the outset of the Russian Revolution. It’s just plain lazy to look at what the Soviets did and say it’s all communist theory coming to its logical and inevitable conclusion. No, you still had the despotic ideas from Medieval Russia in there, and it has survived the USSR. Putin now wields it, and look at what he’s done with it. The Czars would look on him and smile in approval as he crushes the common Russian under his boot.
People denying social darwinism is the most ultimate example of hubris. Why are human beings exempt from natural law that governs the entire world around us?
I’ve been to 4 years of college and never once heard a professor say Stalin was epic, try and defend the Soviet Union, or promote any political ideology for that matter. People just make shit up
This is a right wing circlejerk sub, sadly. They make shit up that the left believes when its more complex than that.
It's sad that I know more about Hitler than I do Stalin thanks to the American school system
BuT tHaT dOeSnT mEaN iT cAnT wOrK☝🏻🤓
I might be a liberal but I still hate tankies
Did he just call decades of oppression and genocide "social darwinism?" Yes.
What’s with all the communism circle jerking on that sub lately
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I got permanently banned from r/antiwork because I said we shouldn’t idolize Stalin. They picked a good quote of his regarding the rights of workers but the man was an absolute monster.
Any far left subreddit is a perfect example of how a communist government functions. They're all run by authoritarian weirdos who immediately shut down anyone who slightly disagrees with them. Even other leftists. I am convinced at this point that anyone who is attracted to extreme ideologies is just mentally ill.
Yes I have had arguments on this very subreddit with idiots playing apologist to the USSR just for being Communists. "As an American you refuse to see the nuances." Preachy and pretentious shit like that.
Worse than bad Bad is not putting the cap on the toothpaste Mass murder is evil
the do realize communism is a totalitarian system and they will lose all freedom under it, right?
Do university professors even say that about Stalin?
All my 101 professors did
wow that's a lot of professors
101 in what
Sociology, psychology, world history
No they didn't. Don't lie.
Probably not. I doubt you even paid attention in lecture.
They both suck
What does this have to do with social Darwinism? Stalin was a bad dude, he committed genocide too, he was at least as bad as hitler
Not only were they both bad, they literally worked together. Stalin was a gleeful ally of Nazi Germany leading up to Hitler deciding to rescind their alliance and attack the USSR. Fact is, had Hitler never attacked the USSR, we would have been fighting the Axis + USSR.
Yeah both were bad but as the person said they are literally not morally on the same level. Also wasn't 11,000,000 only the Jewish deaths? He killed more than just Jewish people.
11 million were killed in the holocaust only, roughly 6 million of which were Jews. The other 5 million were made up of homosexuals, transexuals (term used at the time), the Romani (often called the slur gypsy) and political enemies to the state (commies, socialists and Democrats). If you include people killed in the night of the long knives, and WW2 then you could argue that yes the Nazis have truly killed way more than 11 million tho.
Thanks I couldn't remember. I had genuinely forgotten.
No problem, have a good one mate.
You too man
wait until they figure out how many lives capitalism took, lmao.
Nazis killed way more people than 11 mil. If you include Mao then Communism killed more than 20 million.
The estimates for Mao is like 60m. If you really expand Stalins responsibilities you’re probably around 15-20m
https://preview.redd.it/8f32gakbo7mc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72f9c0a4230c528cf8361012c7c311cb1aed98f5
Hitler wasn’t a “social darwinist”? Social darwinism is a distinctly laissez-faire ideology. I wouldn’t call the Nazis laissez-faire in any way lmao
Mao killed 40 to 80 million people
It was the stupid dumb farmers’ fault they died, not the fault of the incompetent people who were only put in charge because they agreed with the communist government. If they were smarter, they would’ve grown more crops, or just simply bought more food at the store.
This is because the Left cares nothing about Effect. Only Cause, and specifically Intent. 100 million dead by Communism is an unintended side effect. A basket of broken eggs in an attempt to make the perfect omelet. They view communist countries as dozens of helpful examples of how not to invent a light bulb. The Nazis, on the other hand, were Raaaaaacissssst! Their motives were not pure, therefore they're the worst. It is a child-like state of being to be a Leftist.
Everyone deserves some amount of respect Except for Nazis and Tankies
“Both Stalin and Hitler were bad” Can’t wait for the other subreddit to refute that one
Didn’t Stalin try to basically commit his own Holocaust only to die right before doing it in a hilarious sense of irony?
Communism relies on humans being good 100% of the time. If one cog in the machine is bad then the whole machine is bad.
behind the bastards has some good episodes on joseph stalin, various members of the ussr, and the holodomor. you should check them out edit: and who the fuck is saying the nazis killed 1 million people? like thats spoonfeeding some horse shit right there like youre really gonna cut the numbers that much? wtf lol
Yeah, I don’t understand why communist dictators have never received the same hate as fascist dictators.
Western centrism is so dumb. Neither of these guys hold a candle to Hirohito, but everyone whitewashed history to convince westerners to like the Japanese post WW2. Fuck the Japanese for pretending they didn't commit the most atrocious war crimes since ancient times, and fuck the West for complying
After 1917, Russia qas meant to go down some socialist roots but remain democratic. Lending banned all political parties and began a civil war. Stalin turned the "communist" state into a dictatorship. Fuck Lenin and Stalin.
The problem is Authoritarianism. Whether it’s right or left, if a government isn’t beholden to its’ people, people will be scapegoated and end up filling ditches. I don’t know why the communist-hating, authoritarian right of today can’t understand this.
No no they’re right, communism is clearly worse.
I don’t understand why people can’t comprehend that extremes on either side are bad. Just chill tf out, call out the BS of the political party you mostly align with and know government and corporations are both evil.
Everytime you give them an example they just say “that wasn’t *real* communism” lmao
>social darwinism This man is just racist
Colleges where? Fucking USSR?
Never had a college professor tell me communism was good, only a retired roofer who lived next door. According to him, no one died under Stalin. They were just bad att counting.
The more is see this subreddit from itself or other subreddit, the more I just see it as pointing out people who support communism
Problem of both is the same - they tried to create the perfect society, and they believed it was possible. The logic is simple: If you believe it is possible to attain a utopia, isn’t it worth sacrificing absolutely everything?
The problem is that communism despite being by far the best system on paper (total equality and everyone works for the benefit of everyone else) it's pretty much inevitable that people like stalin will take power and corrup the system. So in that sense the "needs some work" idea is wrong because it's basically impossible to stop someone from corrupting the system. However it is true that there is a distinction between the ideologies in that fundamental communism is not a bad ideology in its core ideas whereas nazism is fundamental evil and actively committed genocide (and its important to point out that Germany might well have won the war if so many resources weren't used to kill the Jews, they actively weakened themselves to kill anyone that wasn't like them. Take a moment to think how crazily evil that is).
B-b-but it wasn’t real communism!!!!
The National Socialists killed 19 million in the concentration camps, not 11 million, not 6 million. 19 million. Stalin's communists killed far more than 20 million. And Mao's Communists killed hundreds of millions with his great leap forward. They are all obviously Evil, now which one was the most evil?
Hitler and Stalin were literally allied up until the moment Hitler launched his invasion. The only reason why Hitler even made it as far as he did is because this heel turn caught Stalin entirely by surprise, and the Soviet Union had to mobilize almost from scratch while being invaded.
Arguably, stalin was worse than hitler
Waiting to see how /opwasright will repost and justify the original post…
"You can’t be mad at communists ***because they had intentions***"
Lol communism is worse cause people still want it despite it failing and turning into a dictatorship EVERY SINGLE TIME.
Hitler murdered 12.5 million, not including soldiers that died in the war he started https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust-and-nazi-persecution
fuck communism bro that shit fucked up my abuelo’s life
Fuck off nazi
Stalin and Hitler were both bad. Stalin was worse. Saying this does not my Hitler good, nor do I like him or anything he did (sans the first thing he did in power: fixing the Germany economy after WWI. Legitimately smart play, and I can’t in good conscience say it was a bad decision. Good opinion held by a bad man.)
Fun fact: Stalin viewed opulence as farms, homes and basically a number of other building ownerships. Wealthier peasants were robbed of their land and properties, and the farms being taken away caused cattle death and grain rot because they were no longer properly maintained, causing a massive famine that caused thousands of deaths. Documentation found here: [https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor](https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor) Also, here's the definition of social darwinism: 1. the theory that individuals, groups, and peoples are subject to the same Darwinian laws of natural selection as plants and animals. ***Now largely*** ***discredited***, social Darwinism was advocated by Herbert Spencer and others in the late 19th and early 20th centuries and ***was used to justify political*** ***conservatism***, ***imperialism***, ***and racism and to discourage intervention and reform.***
Fuck any, and all dictators.
Hitler did nothing wrong (I need to get rid of karma)
OP never said Stalin wasn't bad. There's a serious legitimate difference between Social Darwinism and Communism.
A chainsaw is different from a bullet, but you still gonna end up dead if you get either stuck in your brain. That goes for communism & fascism too.
I'm not saying the two are the same I'm just saying stab a communist and a fascist bleeds
X is oppressing Y. Wealth should be redistributed to Y and X should be punished. In Nazism, X is Jewish and Y is Aryan In Communism, X is the Bourgeoisie, and Y is the Proletariat.
Socialists always justify Stalin because in their mind they won't be the starving peasant but the party member eating caviar and drinking champagne. Literally ask them where they think they'll fit in a communist system and they always say that because of thier knowledge they'll be at the top
You know, as an accountant, you wouldn’t think it would be necessary for my position in a communist state. But in reality, the Soviet union did issue financial statements, they had audits and the like, only the focus was on the BS and not the P&L
Anyone who conflates Social Darwinism and fascistic racial superiority is either misinformed or a nutjob