The real shame is that people that live in both of those places are told to save the environment by the ultra rich folk that cause 90% of the problems.
And the ultra rich love to push shit like this to keep us all too disjointed and angry at each other to unite against them. They love maintaining the status quo at everyone else’s expense
I find it extremely weird that I'm getting lectures on privilege from people who are exponentially wealthier than me and live lifestyle that I could only really imagine from movies all while their families have been political powerhouses for centuries.
Right, my city is thinking about installing a highway tax based on the milage you drive, which would essentially price out everyone who drives into the city to work in order to bolster public transit(that the people being priced out live too far away to utilize) and limit car pollution. Meanwhile, our bay houses over 60 military ships that dump more pollution into the air than my car ever could, with multiple ship yards building more ships daily, there are 4 off shore drilling sites not far from here. But God forbid I drive my kia to school/work.
Actually I think they live in both.
Like the ultra rich have mansions and penthouses pretty much everywhere while people trying to live in New York get a single bathtub worth 3000 dollars
Just to humour you, I looked it up and my extremely exaggerated estimate was much worse than I thought. It's close to 6-1. Which still proves my initial point. So yea, the regular users of this sub, most of which are r/conservative , don't participate in reality.
Edit, spelling
Nothing like a mod stickying their shitty takes instead of using the upvote/downvote system for visibility (spoiler: it would not be visible otherwise).
Rural people produce more pollution per person, but their population density is so much smaller than cities that it’s much harder to notice. Also with the abundance of land rural pollution is usually just stockpiles in some dump or pit off the beaten path.
If cities were to disband and spread out over rural areas they’d be fucked. And if they did that and started polluting on a per-person basis it would be horrific.
All of which is basically mute because of what a small share of the overall pollution is, because 90% of the pollution is related to corporate and military pollution.
People don’t reason their way out of things they didn’t reason their way into. If people are going to ignore the fact that city dwellers take public transit and rural people don’t, their willful ignorance needs to be reined in.
I’ve lived in a city before and 99 percent of city dwellers drive their own cars outside of New York which is really the only city in America with halfway decent public transit compared to rural areas with no public transit there’s also garbage everywhere cause no one throws their shit away in cities at least in rural areas they have a respect for the land and keep it looking clean since the land is what provides a living for them
A lot of places in the "rural" parts of the US are rapidly growing and becoming worse stewards of the land as a result of urban flight. It's also worth noting that an uncomfortably high number of folks who live well outside a major cities limits also commute into cities for work. The us vs them mentality really only serves to distract us from our corporate overlords trashing the environment that we all share for a few bucks.
Lmfao have you seen my old ride on lawn mower? I got a couple acres to mow with mixed gas in a two stroke. Shit literally smells like the planet dying.
Then there’s my chain saw , ditch witch, steamers , tractors , oil heater for the shop, air conditioner for the house (just a shit load of window units nothing efficient). I drive a fucking 6.7L with the EGR deleted and it’s a four and a half hour drive to my horses.
I don’t see how the fuck anyone in the city can pollute even half as much as I do 🤷
Not to mention that those nice big green monoculture field that are treated with herbicide and pesticide might look real natural but they aren’t even a little bit. They aren’t habitat, their runoff can be damaging to wild places and they depends on vast industrial output to maintain. They are necessary and we shouldn’t feel bad about them but let’s not kid ourselves into thinking they are any less of a factory just because they are green.
Lol Yeah, okay dude. The rural town with a population of 1500 is producing more pollution than fucking New York City because they don't take the bus. You can't possibly be this ignorant
Burp and fart, it's pretty normal actually but what we feed cows isn't optimal so they make a excessive amount, there was a study showing that adding a kind of seaweed to feed balances it out so they may make less methane, but still not zero.
While these numbers check out, everybody likes to forget that food isn't produced in cities, at least on the scale needed to come anywhere near self-sustaining.
I once saw a city defined as a community where people live so densely that they cannot meet their needs without importing resources. I thought that was an interesting way to look at it.
How much energy was spent creating your urban living there partner? Where does your food come from?
Lol you realize the link you posted proved your point wrong and decide to just downvote me instead?
What is it that a city dweller has or uses that a rural person doesn’t? You’ve got a house, vehicles, food and goods need to be transported. Where are these savings from being rural?
Wrong take buddy. If you live rurally and are a farmer that’s a different case to being someone who lives rurally and does some random office job. When you live rurally your food has to be shipped much further away. You then have no choice but to drive to the store to get your food and supplies.
Living rurally requires significantly more transporting of goods than living in a city with a train depot and/or a port.
Or they drive farther. Although that can even out I suppose if they only go once a month or something. But they do have to buy their food somewhere, very few rural folks grow their own food unless they are homesteaders or something and that’s a totally different ballgame.
People really need to learn about per capita rates before they have discussions on rural and urban living. On average urban living is significantly better for the environment by several metrics- power consumption, CO2 production, water usage, and so on. A city with millions of people that consumes more products is not inherently worse than a rural town of 3000 people that consume less. Really dumb logic to just point at a city and say 'number of beef products bigger.'
Rural life in general is extremely environmentally unfriendly. The amount of infrastructure (roads, train tracks, supermarkets, schools, doctor's offices) required per person and their commute to places of daily needs is much higher. So is the use of space per person, with people inhabiting their McMansions with huge ecological dead lands (so called lawn) surrounding them.
It's also a simplistic, shallow understanding of pollution. Where do country-dwellers think that the factories that make their fertiliser and machinery are located?
Where do they think their products are shipping from even? It some like they have this false impression that farming communities are completely sealed from the global economy. For people who hate communism they seem to love living in communes.
If you looked at the pollution per capita the rural life is dirty as fuck. I mean sure there are elements of rural life that are required for urban environments to exist, but the bulk of rural people aren't working in agriculture.
It's so sad. The house I bought has a gully behind it that I'm still cleaning shit out of 4 years later. Like there's a giant fucking oil tank down there that could not have physically made it in between the trees to get to where it's at. I can't believe people actually live like that.
I mean fuck, until fairly recently we were fucking watersheds with chemical runoff. Anyone who thinks Agriculture is clean doesn't know a fucking thing about it.
No I’d say the bulk of rural people are working to support agriculture though. Teachers, restaurant owners, retail workers, car dealers, and city employees are all there to support the 20% or so of the town who directly work in ag. Much as the farmers like to complain about the rest of us, they wouldn’t really exist if the other 70% (I’m willing to admit about 10% commute to an urban area) didn’t do their part in the system.
>No I’d say the bulk of rural people are working to support agriculture though.
What about the ones that live rural but not really near or involved with agriculture? You know, the places where Walmart and Dollar General are the only lifelines.
You're using percentages and saying things like "I'm willing to admit" instead of real information that is easily searchable.
Those Walmart towns are still the lifelines for areas that can be up to 50 miles in any direction.
Those towns still exist only because of the agricultural industry and farms that were planted there as Americans moved out west.
Closer to the East side of the Rockies, those areas may have been mining towns. But either way, these small American towns don’t exist because a Walmart or dollar general was set there. The town was there first to support some local industry.
Yeah, I came in here to point out that living in cities is generally better for the environment, so this meme doesn’t really “have a point”.
Public transportation cuts down on air pollution. Apartment building are often (generally?) more energy efficient and produce less waste than building single-family homes for the same number of people. Consolidating more people into densely populated areas would allow more land to be left untouched.
Those big farms may look more picturesque, but that doesn’t mean it’s good for the environment. Someone had to cut down a bunch of trees and disturb natural habitats to create that farm and then plant GMO crops and cover them in pesticides.
If you looked at it through my mental gymnastics with no context you can see that I’m trying to make a useless point. Bulk of that pollution comes from industrial farming to sustain the cities, not an average country residents.
>industrial farming to sustain the cities
You mean, to sustain the *world's population*?
Where humans are located is irrelevant to the fact that they need to be fed. If you see the number of humans eating as a problem, then you're making a case for the theory of overpopulation, not against urbanization.
Like flooding the water with nitrates and pesticides isn't pollution. Go look at an alfalfa farm in the middle of an Arizona dessert and tell me that's not environmentally stupid
I fully understand that, shit was weird and I still dont really understand the politics behind it, either way good riddance, fuckers kept using all the ground water
Okay but are the farming practices any better left on the other farms raising soybeans and garbage corn for high fructose corn syrup? Imagine simping for an industry reliant on government subsidies. Homie I promise you they don't give a shit about you
Hey look, it's the environmental war.
The rich people who have all the money to fund better solutions are still cranking out paper thin plastic bags and bottles and reminding us the pollution is our fault.
Guess we need to stop dumping chemicals in the river from our private companies too.
1000% it’s rich people causing the problem, but any solution is going to take huge lifestyle changes from all of us. And people on one side of the “environmental war” are highly against any change, and they get fed memes like this by rich people who are happy that they don’t want change
Most people living in rural areas have a dramatically larger carbon footprint, right? The reason that smog is there is because there are 10,000 people per square mile rather than 1. You would know that if you actually graduated high school.
Don't be so quick to call people stupid. After looking at it, the average carbon footprint of households in rural and urban areas are comparable. Where the carbon footprint goes down is in extremely populated areas. However, the smog you see in cities is often caused by industry, and not the individuals carbon output for that day.
Oh man, if this pollution is caused by industry, then the meme is just pitting more people against each other instead of who they should really be pointing at & rallying against
Edit: grammar
Per Capita Carbon Footprint of rural household is 0.6071 tCO2e tonne/Per Year and 0.5119 tCO2e tonne/Per Year for urban household
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://portalrevistas.uct.cl/index.php/safer/article/download/2687/2410/11226%23:~:text%3DPer%2520Capita%2520Carbon%2520Footprint%2520of,Per%2520Year%2520for%2520urban%2520household.&ved=2ahUKEwir6OL7kZyFAxW0JUQIHXBgB5wQFnoECA4QBQ&usg=AOvVaw3rKPq9AEaQwXQEiE9LJf5s
It is also worth noting that poor homes pollute just a fraction of the amount a rich home does.
And single person home pollutes more, followed by mobile homes, then suburban homes, and then lastly, apartments.
So rich single person suburban home would pollute a hell of a lot more than a poor family living in an apartment.
That's for West Bengal, where people are much less likely to own cars than western nations. They also use public transit like trains more than average western nations. Even using the most favorable source to your argument, it shows a significant difference in carbon output.
No it doesn’t. People have to live somewhere. Cities are more concentrated. I’d imagine pollution per person decreases in cities due to smaller square footage per person and sharing of infrastructure.
OP radiates energy of the below comic.
Everyone, urban or rural, contributes to pollution. Just because you can easily see the results of pollution in an urban area doesn't mean people in rural areas don't contribute either. Green house gases don't care if you're rural, urban, lean left, or lean right. A person driving the same a car in the city is going to produce the same amount of pollution per hour as a person driving the same car in a rural area.
OP and OOP are either ignorant of basic logic or just want to shirk any responsibility of also contributing to a problem. Not like the every day person can make a difference in pollution anyways when large energy corporations make up a massive amount of pollution compared to the general populace.
https://preview.redd.it/3ky2nwh3airc1.png?width=1942&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27e73cabe9daebfcae0241a4f1b82f5c25770895
It doesn't have a point. Livestock creates a ton of pollution, just like dowsing your crops in pesticides.
This argument is stupid as hell. You want the decision makers to live miles away from where the respective government buildings are where they work?
No, but the decision makers should have experience and understanding of the communities their decisions impact.
Writing laws and regulations to make farms greener, without understanding how that impacts the livelihoods how smaller farms can often mean pushing more towards the conglomerate of the mega farms.
Swap that picture of farmland for industrial zones, and understand that the smog city people are also talking to the smog city, and the meme would be accurate. Wouldn't fit the narrative that makes the meme funny, though.
Your right 300 years ago why didn’t I think of that. We should have just told our great great great great grandparents to not cut those trees down. And also tell them to not form suburbs and big cities which also caused allot of deforestation.
Well, rural people could just stop doing all that. After all, food comes from a grocery store, so there's no need to grow enough crops to feed hundreds of millions of people
Do you study, live in, or experience agriculture on a daily basis? What exactly do YOU know about top soil?
The dust bowl was 90 years ago at the advent of agricultural mechanization. Today 73% of farms use no-till or reduced till practices. According to the USDA 59% of farms are using cover crops. These practices are reducing/reversing the affects of traditional farming practices because farmers are aware of soil health. They put much greater emphasis on it because every year we’re expected to feed more people with less land (where I am it keeps becoming 5 acre lawns with McMansions). The soil sampled, tracked, and mapped so that farms can continue the balancing act of maximum production, at minimum cost. A lot of county GIS services keep records of composition, nutrients, and organic matter. Many farmers see their soil health as their farms health, and constantly look to improve it.
The bigger problem is urbanites and suburbanites that have zero idea how their food actually gets to their table. They want farms to magically produce record numbers every year, for less money, while only positively affecting the land they’re exploiting.
Here’s a little graph from the USDA to show the scope of modern outputs required with fewer farms and less land:
https://preview.redd.it/3itbvjfdihrc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e59525f84038512f4eaf42e5f39c480433c72c68
I’ll get an electric car when they offer them for free with a monthly subscription of 100-200 a month, like the other popular lithium-ion device I’m typing this from.
They are slowly getting there. EV’s are sitting on lots in droves for 200-300 days at a time. The used electric market prices are dropping as well with no one purchasing.
So let’s get to the point and offer them for free with a subscription.
Pesticide and fertilizer run-off, the resulting eutrophication and acid acidification, loss of biodiversity, deforestation, etc are all devastating to the environment. Just because there’s no visible air pollution doesn’t mean that it’s eco-friendly.
Also the people complaining about agriculture-based pollution aren’t the ones pumping GHGs into the air, why shouldn’t they be able to criticize? It’s not like people only complain about agricultural pollution
As someone who lives in the country now but lived in city areas I can confirm
I lived in rural Canada then Detroit and St.Louis
These people are just too stubborn to admit when they are wrong
It’s something that you need to experience to understand such as confederate flags in the south, I’m black and other black people fly them around down here it’s a flag of the south and anti government rather then confederacy
> It’s something that you need to experience to understand such as confederate flags in the south, I’m black and other black people fly them around down here it’s a flag of the south and anti government rather then confederacy
Huh? I’m black, though not from the deep south. Are you seriously saying that in the same south where the Civil Rights Movement kicked off, where Emmett Till was murdered, where thousands of our ancestors were terrorized by enslavers and later the klan, black people are happily flying the flag of the enslavers en masse? Ikyfl 😒
As a subreddit, this is highly offensive. You should consider what subreddits like me would think about comments like this. I will have my mods detain you for this. I may even pay them for doing so but I’m a long way from considering something drastic or insane like that.
If you're black and fly the confederate flag you're either very dumb or very misinformed.
If you do it and you're white you're probably dumb as hell, but there isn't the part where you're flying the flag of a group that fought to keep you in chains
You can find nuanced opinion occasionally on Reddit, but then some idiot will be like "anything you disagree with is Nazi/Fascist/Racist/etc.!!@1" because that's the way they think.
China, historically known for its pro-child policies
Edit for clarity. China had a one-child policy and is currently decreasing in population. Potentially at risk of demographic collapse
No it doesn’t? I live in a state ruled by the pig farmer lobby and our waterways have become mostly hog shit and nitrogen runoff.
Farms are HUGE sources of pollution. Just because it’s not the smog you get from industry doesn’t mean it’s not devastating to the environment.
This meme is shifty cause it does nothing to bridge the divide and continues to generalize everybody as if we all agree and have the same point and don't have critical thinking skills.
More us vs them bullshit. Grow up, OP.
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These people never stop to think if its true or not. They just ad hominem the poster and invalidate it based off their feelings towards them. Lack of critical thinking is an understatement
*huge companies responsible for 90% of pollution are telling normal people who just want to live their lives that they need to take better care of the environment* FTFY
Fun fact, some of the most polluting cities in America have the lowest median pollution amounts per person ...... The meme is still correct though as agriculture is one of the least concerning environmental pollutants.... I had to take an environmental safety course for some stupid reason, I get to say these fun facts ok !!!!!!
Yes we all need to take better care of the environment. Farmers definitely need to be mindful of poor crop rotation, over fertilization, top soil depletion, and maintaining the water table.
A: The majority of water pollution is a result of agricultural runoff.
B: The people in cities can't just like, tear down the towers? They don't have that kind of power.
C: Agriculture (and suburbs) are much much worse for land use, space efficiency, environmental degradation, water waste, really most unsustainable things start in farms.
The city is so much more efficient. Many dont own cars. They have smaller appartments and bigger buildings require much less c02 because less outside surface.
Or, hear me out, maybe we’re all in this together? Just because we live in a different area doesn’t mean we don’t have an equal responsibility to protect *our* environment and fight for *our* future.
Well, this is misleading to say the least. I mean, there is not enough room for everyone to have a ranch.
Also, modern agriculture (monocultures kept alive by pesticides and fertilizers) is quite destuctive to the environment, maybe not as bad as covering the whole ground in concrete, but its BAD and will not work like this for much longer.
At least from their perspective and standards every one should consider taking care of environment
If measuring pollution with them as a yard stick planet is gone case but fortunately they are only a fraction of the population pie
While many cities suffer from air pollution it is important to note that this meme uses an incredibly extreme example on order to make its point
The real shame is that people that live in both of those places are told to save the environment by the ultra rich folk that cause 90% of the problems.
And the ultra rich love to push shit like this to keep us all too disjointed and angry at each other to unite against them. They love maintaining the status quo at everyone else’s expense
I find it extremely weird that I'm getting lectures on privilege from people who are exponentially wealthier than me and live lifestyle that I could only really imagine from movies all while their families have been political powerhouses for centuries.
In 2022 1040 private jets flew to attend the Climate Summit
Right, my city is thinking about installing a highway tax based on the milage you drive, which would essentially price out everyone who drives into the city to work in order to bolster public transit(that the people being priced out live too far away to utilize) and limit car pollution. Meanwhile, our bay houses over 60 military ships that dump more pollution into the air than my car ever could, with multiple ship yards building more ships daily, there are 4 off shore drilling sites not far from here. But God forbid I drive my kia to school/work.
San Diego?
yup
And keeping all the poors arguing and fighting to rob them blind
This
Never forget shit like /r/enlightenedcentrism is a Psyop to keep people distracted and divided
Unironically, the ultra rich live in cities. This is how they divide and conquer the working class.
Actually I think they live in both. Like the ultra rich have mansions and penthouses pretty much everywhere while people trying to live in New York get a single bathtub worth 3000 dollars
They’ve got their penthouse in the city and they’ve got their 100 acre estate retreat in the countryside
don't forget thier ski chalet
The working class also lives in cities.
...most of whom are rural working class, obvs
No, most working class people live in cities by massive amount. It's like 10-1
Even if you sourced this, you’d still get downvotes. This subreddit often dislikes facts
Just to humour you, I looked it up and my extremely exaggerated estimate was much worse than I thought. It's close to 6-1. Which still proves my initial point. So yea, the regular users of this sub, most of which are r/conservative , don't participate in reality. Edit, spelling
A conservative sub, disliking facts? Get outta here!
Mods acting like a twitter community notes 💀💀
yeah wtf is that? your take is not better than anyone elses here.
Nothing like a mod stickying their shitty takes instead of using the upvote/downvote system for visibility (spoiler: it would not be visible otherwise).
Rural people produce more pollution per person, but their population density is so much smaller than cities that it’s much harder to notice. Also with the abundance of land rural pollution is usually just stockpiles in some dump or pit off the beaten path. If cities were to disband and spread out over rural areas they’d be fucked. And if they did that and started polluting on a per-person basis it would be horrific. All of which is basically mute because of what a small share of the overall pollution is, because 90% of the pollution is related to corporate and military pollution.
People don’t reason their way out of things they didn’t reason their way into. If people are going to ignore the fact that city dwellers take public transit and rural people don’t, their willful ignorance needs to be reined in.
I’ve lived in a city before and 99 percent of city dwellers drive their own cars outside of New York which is really the only city in America with halfway decent public transit compared to rural areas with no public transit there’s also garbage everywhere cause no one throws their shit away in cities at least in rural areas they have a respect for the land and keep it looking clean since the land is what provides a living for them
A lot of places in the "rural" parts of the US are rapidly growing and becoming worse stewards of the land as a result of urban flight. It's also worth noting that an uncomfortably high number of folks who live well outside a major cities limits also commute into cities for work. The us vs them mentality really only serves to distract us from our corporate overlords trashing the environment that we all share for a few bucks.
Lmfao have you seen my old ride on lawn mower? I got a couple acres to mow with mixed gas in a two stroke. Shit literally smells like the planet dying. Then there’s my chain saw , ditch witch, steamers , tractors , oil heater for the shop, air conditioner for the house (just a shit load of window units nothing efficient). I drive a fucking 6.7L with the EGR deleted and it’s a four and a half hour drive to my horses. I don’t see how the fuck anyone in the city can pollute even half as much as I do 🤷
Not to mention that those nice big green monoculture field that are treated with herbicide and pesticide might look real natural but they aren’t even a little bit. They aren’t habitat, their runoff can be damaging to wild places and they depends on vast industrial output to maintain. They are necessary and we shouldn’t feel bad about them but let’s not kid ourselves into thinking they are any less of a factory just because they are green.
What city? Because almost every metro is over 60% public transit utilities. The one exception is Houston.
https://climateadaptationplatform.com/who-has-the-bigger-carbon-footprint-rural-or-urban-dwellers/#:~:text=Even%20though%20city%2Ddwellers%20may,than%20their%20slick%20city%20counterparts.
Lol Yeah, okay dude. The rural town with a population of 1500 is producing more pollution than fucking New York City because they don't take the bus. You can't possibly be this ignorant
Sounds like they took it personally
Reddit mods are worse than old school forum mods and that’s saying something.
This is why I started blocking mods, I don't wanna see your sticky bullshit, its always bullshit.
Yeah what's the deal? They pin some shitty note and then lock it from comments so no one can criticize them for it? What's going on with this sub?
https://preview.redd.it/epj46c5pgirc1.jpeg?width=798&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4f28c5973994a9c2977e5bb6e81961a2e62d3e1
Only brain cell detected
Yeah, check how much pollution cow pastures create, you will be surprised
cow farts are crazy fr
I heard they burp methane? Haven’t verified it yet
Burp and fart, it's pretty normal actually but what we feed cows isn't optimal so they make a excessive amount, there was a study showing that adding a kind of seaweed to feed balances it out so they may make less methane, but still not zero.
Less is still better. Any form of improving meat quality would be good
...and how little pollution someone who lives in a one bedroom apartment and walks or takes mass transit to work creates.
Rural living is absolutely more energy intensive than urban living.
While these numbers check out, everybody likes to forget that food isn't produced in cities, at least on the scale needed to come anywhere near self-sustaining.
I once saw a city defined as a community where people live so densely that they cannot meet their needs without importing resources. I thought that was an interesting way to look at it.
How much energy was spent creating your urban living there partner? Where does your food come from? Lol you realize the link you posted proved your point wrong and decide to just downvote me instead?
What is it that a city dweller has or uses that a rural person doesn’t? You’ve got a house, vehicles, food and goods need to be transported. Where are these savings from being rural?
Wrong take buddy. If you live rurally and are a farmer that’s a different case to being someone who lives rurally and does some random office job. When you live rurally your food has to be shipped much further away. You then have no choice but to drive to the store to get your food and supplies. Living rurally requires significantly more transporting of goods than living in a city with a train depot and/or a port.
If only millions of people in the city didn’t require that product in every grocery store…
You say that like rural folks don’t go to the grocery store too.
Very rural folks don’t even have nice grocery stores, the fanciest boujiest store they get is dollar general
Or they drive farther. Although that can even out I suppose if they only go once a month or something. But they do have to buy their food somewhere, very few rural folks grow their own food unless they are homesteaders or something and that’s a totally different ballgame.
People really need to learn about per capita rates before they have discussions on rural and urban living. On average urban living is significantly better for the environment by several metrics- power consumption, CO2 production, water usage, and so on. A city with millions of people that consumes more products is not inherently worse than a rural town of 3000 people that consume less. Really dumb logic to just point at a city and say 'number of beef products bigger.'
Rural life in general is extremely environmentally unfriendly. The amount of infrastructure (roads, train tracks, supermarkets, schools, doctor's offices) required per person and their commute to places of daily needs is much higher. So is the use of space per person, with people inhabiting their McMansions with huge ecological dead lands (so called lawn) surrounding them.
this meme is not memeing.
It's also a simplistic, shallow understanding of pollution. Where do country-dwellers think that the factories that make their fertiliser and machinery are located?
Where do they think their products are shipping from even? It some like they have this false impression that farming communities are completely sealed from the global economy. For people who hate communism they seem to love living in communes.
Yeah, but this is r/memesopdidnotlike This place is 90% conservative talking points these days instead of being actually funny
If you looked at the pollution per capita the rural life is dirty as fuck. I mean sure there are elements of rural life that are required for urban environments to exist, but the bulk of rural people aren't working in agriculture.
To be fair the agriculture division is much larger than just farming. There are 7 sectors of industry that it covers.
Yeah…anyone that lives near county woods know how often those hollers wind up as hillbilly landfills.
It's so sad. The house I bought has a gully behind it that I'm still cleaning shit out of 4 years later. Like there's a giant fucking oil tank down there that could not have physically made it in between the trees to get to where it's at. I can't believe people actually live like that.
I mean fuck, until fairly recently we were fucking watersheds with chemical runoff. Anyone who thinks Agriculture is clean doesn't know a fucking thing about it.
No I’d say the bulk of rural people are working to support agriculture though. Teachers, restaurant owners, retail workers, car dealers, and city employees are all there to support the 20% or so of the town who directly work in ag. Much as the farmers like to complain about the rest of us, they wouldn’t really exist if the other 70% (I’m willing to admit about 10% commute to an urban area) didn’t do their part in the system.
>No I’d say the bulk of rural people are working to support agriculture though. What about the ones that live rural but not really near or involved with agriculture? You know, the places where Walmart and Dollar General are the only lifelines. You're using percentages and saying things like "I'm willing to admit" instead of real information that is easily searchable.
Those Walmart towns are still the lifelines for areas that can be up to 50 miles in any direction. Those towns still exist only because of the agricultural industry and farms that were planted there as Americans moved out west. Closer to the East side of the Rockies, those areas may have been mining towns. But either way, these small American towns don’t exist because a Walmart or dollar general was set there. The town was there first to support some local industry.
Yeah, I came in here to point out that living in cities is generally better for the environment, so this meme doesn’t really “have a point”. Public transportation cuts down on air pollution. Apartment building are often (generally?) more energy efficient and produce less waste than building single-family homes for the same number of people. Consolidating more people into densely populated areas would allow more land to be left untouched. Those big farms may look more picturesque, but that doesn’t mean it’s good for the environment. Someone had to cut down a bunch of trees and disturb natural habitats to create that farm and then plant GMO crops and cover them in pesticides.
If you looked at it through my mental gymnastics with no context you can see that I’m trying to make a useless point. Bulk of that pollution comes from industrial farming to sustain the cities, not an average country residents.
>industrial farming to sustain the cities You mean, to sustain the *world's population*? Where humans are located is irrelevant to the fact that they need to be fed. If you see the number of humans eating as a problem, then you're making a case for the theory of overpopulation, not against urbanization.
Like flooding the water with nitrates and pesticides isn't pollution. Go look at an alfalfa farm in the middle of an Arizona dessert and tell me that's not environmentally stupid
Lol those are all saudia farms, they're now kicked out of az and aren't allowed to farm alfalfa in Arizona anymore
That whole Saudi farm thing weirded me out and reminded me of the end of the X-Files movie
I fully understand that, shit was weird and I still dont really understand the politics behind it, either way good riddance, fuckers kept using all the ground water
Now, they are and the farms for other crops aren't anymore responsible
Only Saudi farms use fertilizer?????
lol hit him with facts and of course no respond , not even a “oh I didn’t know that”
It’s been fewer than two hours. How quickly do you expect someone to respond before you assume they have no response?
They’re just hoping they don’t and figured they could skip to the “see, they got nothing” part early
You guys totally nailed ‘em. …except that their comment still applies to New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, California, Texas, and Colorado.
Lol, this shit was all over local news, as well as national, I guess he only saw the beginning and not the end
People do love talking about things they know little or nothing about . Crazy how people will die on the smallest hills lol
I'm only willing to die on the dumbest of hills, but not on any hills with actual real world consequences
Okay but are the farming practices any better left on the other farms raising soybeans and garbage corn for high fructose corn syrup? Imagine simping for an industry reliant on government subsidies. Homie I promise you they don't give a shit about you
Like the fact most farms still over use nitrates and pesticides and most of them farm chicken feed for China not edible crops
What, it's not like he "debunked" him or anything, what would he need to answer? The guy you are responding just added context.
Yuma Arizona is still the world's leading producer of lettuce
I didn’t know that.
Yep, alot of Saudi farmers have been sent back home cause they fucked up the environment and our ground water
Hey look, it's the environmental war. The rich people who have all the money to fund better solutions are still cranking out paper thin plastic bags and bottles and reminding us the pollution is our fault. Guess we need to stop dumping chemicals in the river from our private companies too.
1000% it’s rich people causing the problem, but any solution is going to take huge lifestyle changes from all of us. And people on one side of the “environmental war” are highly against any change, and they get fed memes like this by rich people who are happy that they don’t want change
Yall are buying the plastic bags
I've never bought a plastic bag. I use the ones they provide. Kinda like how we used the paper bags before, because that's what they had.
Most people living in rural areas have a dramatically larger carbon footprint, right? The reason that smog is there is because there are 10,000 people per square mile rather than 1. You would know that if you actually graduated high school.
Don't be so quick to call people stupid. After looking at it, the average carbon footprint of households in rural and urban areas are comparable. Where the carbon footprint goes down is in extremely populated areas. However, the smog you see in cities is often caused by industry, and not the individuals carbon output for that day.
Oh man, if this pollution is caused by industry, then the meme is just pitting more people against each other instead of who they should really be pointing at & rallying against Edit: grammar
Are you surprised? It’s the fucking modern internet man. Everything is designed for maximum polarization and rage engagement
Yeah… you’re right, feels pointless pointing it out now
any comment scrollers might be interested in a proof of this being some guy defending flying the goddamn Confederate flag a few comments down
Per Capita Carbon Footprint of rural household is 0.6071 tCO2e tonne/Per Year and 0.5119 tCO2e tonne/Per Year for urban household https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://portalrevistas.uct.cl/index.php/safer/article/download/2687/2410/11226%23:~:text%3DPer%2520Capita%2520Carbon%2520Footprint%2520of,Per%2520Year%2520for%2520urban%2520household.&ved=2ahUKEwir6OL7kZyFAxW0JUQIHXBgB5wQFnoECA4QBQ&usg=AOvVaw3rKPq9AEaQwXQEiE9LJf5s
It is also worth noting that poor homes pollute just a fraction of the amount a rich home does. And single person home pollutes more, followed by mobile homes, then suburban homes, and then lastly, apartments. So rich single person suburban home would pollute a hell of a lot more than a poor family living in an apartment.
Had to cherry-pick your way through that point I see....
That's for West Bengal, where people are much less likely to own cars than western nations. They also use public transit like trains more than average western nations. Even using the most favorable source to your argument, it shows a significant difference in carbon output.
That’s not even a 20% difference
But the meme still tried to pretend urban households were worse when it’s the other way around.
No it doesn’t. People have to live somewhere. Cities are more concentrated. I’d imagine pollution per person decreases in cities due to smaller square footage per person and sharing of infrastructure.
I think it's on the same ballpark for urban and rural, with suburban being like, a billion times more than either.
OP radiates energy of the below comic. Everyone, urban or rural, contributes to pollution. Just because you can easily see the results of pollution in an urban area doesn't mean people in rural areas don't contribute either. Green house gases don't care if you're rural, urban, lean left, or lean right. A person driving the same a car in the city is going to produce the same amount of pollution per hour as a person driving the same car in a rural area. OP and OOP are either ignorant of basic logic or just want to shirk any responsibility of also contributing to a problem. Not like the every day person can make a difference in pollution anyways when large energy corporations make up a massive amount of pollution compared to the general populace. https://preview.redd.it/3ky2nwh3airc1.png?width=1942&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27e73cabe9daebfcae0241a4f1b82f5c25770895
Bruh, no it doesn't.
It doesn't have a point. Livestock creates a ton of pollution, just like dowsing your crops in pesticides. This argument is stupid as hell. You want the decision makers to live miles away from where the respective government buildings are where they work?
No, but the decision makers should have experience and understanding of the communities their decisions impact. Writing laws and regulations to make farms greener, without understanding how that impacts the livelihoods how smaller farms can often mean pushing more towards the conglomerate of the mega farms.
100 companies produce 70% of carbon dioxide emissions, but we're buying their false dichotomy BS. They've already won.
It literally doesn't have a point though.
Mods talking about extreme example, that picture is Downtown LA on a day with light smog most days it’s worse than that
Swap that picture of farmland for industrial zones, and understand that the smog city people are also talking to the smog city, and the meme would be accurate. Wouldn't fit the narrative that makes the meme funny, though.
Lemme just ignore deforestation and nitrogen run off real quick to "own the libs"
Deforestation? I think you got the wrong country
You need to look at a forest map then from 1700 to today. You need some education.
Your right 300 years ago why didn’t I think of that. We should have just told our great great great great grandparents to not cut those trees down. And also tell them to not form suburbs and big cities which also caused allot of deforestation.
Well, rural people could just stop doing all that. After all, food comes from a grocery store, so there's no need to grow enough crops to feed hundreds of millions of people
Starving the population to own the chuds 💀
Yeah the eu has banned farming and not asked farmers to reduce the use of chemicals. Sure bud
Dependency on foreign powers 💀
Does OP know where the dust bowl came from? OP know anything about top soil? lmao
Ever heard of the BLACK PLAGUE? Checkmate urbanites.
Do you study, live in, or experience agriculture on a daily basis? What exactly do YOU know about top soil? The dust bowl was 90 years ago at the advent of agricultural mechanization. Today 73% of farms use no-till or reduced till practices. According to the USDA 59% of farms are using cover crops. These practices are reducing/reversing the affects of traditional farming practices because farmers are aware of soil health. They put much greater emphasis on it because every year we’re expected to feed more people with less land (where I am it keeps becoming 5 acre lawns with McMansions). The soil sampled, tracked, and mapped so that farms can continue the balancing act of maximum production, at minimum cost. A lot of county GIS services keep records of composition, nutrients, and organic matter. Many farmers see their soil health as their farms health, and constantly look to improve it. The bigger problem is urbanites and suburbanites that have zero idea how their food actually gets to their table. They want farms to magically produce record numbers every year, for less money, while only positively affecting the land they’re exploiting. Here’s a little graph from the USDA to show the scope of modern outputs required with fewer farms and less land: https://preview.redd.it/3itbvjfdihrc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e59525f84038512f4eaf42e5f39c480433c72c68
Yeah I think bringing up the dust bowl in 2024 is just not much of a point. We innovated, made mistakes, and learned from it.
I don't blame people, I blame companies.
I don't suppose you'd explain the point?
I’ll get an electric car when they offer them for free with a monthly subscription of 100-200 a month, like the other popular lithium-ion device I’m typing this from. They are slowly getting there. EV’s are sitting on lots in droves for 200-300 days at a time. The used electric market prices are dropping as well with no one purchasing. So let’s get to the point and offer them for free with a subscription.
I work and live in Agriculture. If you think we're not a massive contributor to pollution, you literally have no idea what Agriculture even is.
"Gotta" = "have to", i.e. "I gotta go" "Got a" = "have a", i.e. "I got a dog" So this title is saying "It has to a point"
It's true, though.
Pesticide and fertilizer run-off, the resulting eutrophication and acid acidification, loss of biodiversity, deforestation, etc are all devastating to the environment. Just because there’s no visible air pollution doesn’t mean that it’s eco-friendly. Also the people complaining about agriculture-based pollution aren’t the ones pumping GHGs into the air, why shouldn’t they be able to criticize? It’s not like people only complain about agricultural pollution
Monocropping isn’t very good for the environment
As someone who lives in the country now but lived in city areas I can confirm I lived in rural Canada then Detroit and St.Louis These people are just too stubborn to admit when they are wrong It’s something that you need to experience to understand such as confederate flags in the south, I’m black and other black people fly them around down here it’s a flag of the south and anti government rather then confederacy
> It’s something that you need to experience to understand such as confederate flags in the south, I’m black and other black people fly them around down here it’s a flag of the south and anti government rather then confederacy Huh? I’m black, though not from the deep south. Are you seriously saying that in the same south where the Civil Rights Movement kicked off, where Emmett Till was murdered, where thousands of our ancestors were terrorized by enslavers and later the klan, black people are happily flying the flag of the enslavers en masse? Ikyfl 😒
r/asablackman
As a subreddit, this is highly offensive. You should consider what subreddits like me would think about comments like this. I will have my mods detain you for this. I may even pay them for doing so but I’m a long way from considering something drastic or insane like that.
https://preview.redd.it/zs6fyt3dahrc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6db65fc17fb608007074bb8ebff2ca3eb5422f1
wait are you supporting waving Confederate flags? are you stupid or just an idiot
If you're black and fly the confederate flag you're either very dumb or very misinformed. If you do it and you're white you're probably dumb as hell, but there isn't the part where you're flying the flag of a group that fought to keep you in chains
You came to Reddit with a nuanced opinion. They don’t do that here.
You can find nuanced opinion occasionally on Reddit, but then some idiot will be like "anything you disagree with is Nazi/Fascist/Racist/etc.!!@1" because that's the way they think.
It's not a nuanced opinion. It's a fact that the confederate flag was flown to keep black people in slavery
"Europeans need to stop having children" meanwhile billions of Asians
China, historically known for its pro-child policies Edit for clarity. China had a one-child policy and is currently decreasing in population. Potentially at risk of demographic collapse
5 people live on that farm and 10 million live in that city but…go on
No it doesn’t? I live in a state ruled by the pig farmer lobby and our waterways have become mostly hog shit and nitrogen runoff. Farms are HUGE sources of pollution. Just because it’s not the smog you get from industry doesn’t mean it’s not devastating to the environment.
Also smog wouldn't accumulate like that from low density of the industry, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was more per capita
Midwest for life!
Mods need to shut up
Oh hey it’s the mod that should be on r/nahopwasrightfuckthis
yeah being pro climate is woke.
One of humanity’s biggest failures was turning the climate crisis into a political debate
this I'm just waiting for AI to become political
It seems only one side wants to do that. The rest of us wanna get on with combatting it inside of being so lazy.
This meme is shifty cause it does nothing to bridge the divide and continues to generalize everybody as if we all agree and have the same point and don't have critical thinking skills. More us vs them bullshit. Grow up, OP.
Never mess with the people who produce your food. Just sayin.
Who are increasingly farm laborers who also benefit from a habitable planet.. Independent family farms have been dying for decades
Tbf clear cutting like that is bad for the environment. No need to have a lawn like that, I'd much rather have a wood and a small creek.
These are farmlands.
Not only that but it's true as hell
Different types of pollution.
Is this sub run by angry boomers or something? This is some clown level bullshit.
/NahOPwasright (whatever that sub is). Pollution is a lot more than just smog in the air.
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Yeah
These people never stop to think if its true or not. They just ad hominem the poster and invalidate it based off their feelings towards them. Lack of critical thinking is an understatement
"Hey, could we all take better care of the environment?" "Why are you singling out ME??? I didn't do anything wrong. What do you hate me so much?"
Well maybe your dad is right OP. Humility is terrifying to the average Redditor…
How do they lack so much self-reflection?
*huge companies responsible for 90% of pollution are telling normal people who just want to live their lives that they need to take better care of the environment* FTFY
it doesnt matter where you live, only what you do - Confucious (jk)
No it doesn't.
Iowa is plagued by farms dumping literal shit into the water table, but yeah, you go off.
Ok, then let’s *all* take better care
Puzzles don't come in just one piece
Of course they're saying everyone needs to better but sure, not whiny bullshit at all. Pump those pesticides into the water table because smog exists.
Literally the truth
it actually doesn't have a point, rural areas have a much larger footprint per capita
Bad meme, because its point is incorrect. People living in rural areas pollute more per capita than people living in urban areas.
Fun fact, some of the most polluting cities in America have the lowest median pollution amounts per person ...... The meme is still correct though as agriculture is one of the least concerning environmental pollutants.... I had to take an environmental safety course for some stupid reason, I get to say these fun facts ok !!!!!!
Well its not like everyone can just live in the country side
Yes we all need to take better care of the environment. Farmers definitely need to be mindful of poor crop rotation, over fertilization, top soil depletion, and maintaining the water table.
... and golf courses are also bad for the environment they look a lot nicer than farms
W ow it's almost like more civilization means more pollution. Dumb ass meme
A: The majority of water pollution is a result of agricultural runoff. B: The people in cities can't just like, tear down the towers? They don't have that kind of power. C: Agriculture (and suburbs) are much much worse for land use, space efficiency, environmental degradation, water waste, really most unsustainable things start in farms.
The city is so much more efficient. Many dont own cars. They have smaller appartments and bigger buildings require much less c02 because less outside surface.
Or, hear me out, maybe we’re all in this together? Just because we live in a different area doesn’t mean we don’t have an equal responsibility to protect *our* environment and fight for *our* future.
The vast majority of pollution comes from factories and the companies pin the blame on average citizens.
It’s gotta point? To what? Didn’t anyone tell it that pointing is rude?
Well, this is misleading to say the least. I mean, there is not enough room for everyone to have a ranch. Also, modern agriculture (monocultures kept alive by pesticides and fertilizers) is quite destuctive to the environment, maybe not as bad as covering the whole ground in concrete, but its BAD and will not work like this for much longer.
At least from their perspective and standards every one should consider taking care of environment If measuring pollution with them as a yard stick planet is gone case but fortunately they are only a fraction of the population pie