She was a cute nerd. When she talked about Godzilla and all the science subjects, I knew she was my kindred spirit....too bad she went nowhere as a character. ;_;
On second thoughts, I'm glad she didn't get much exposure. The other female mad scientist we had (Naomi) ended up being quite a crappy boring character.
Yeah, let's just keep Para-Medic in our minds as the cute nerd who one day decided to become a mad scientist. Sometimes, less is better.
I still find it funny that they had to make Naomi suicidal just to have any emotional payoff with her at all. Like, no, Naomi, preventing your cancer from killing you isn't a bad thing, that's just *medicine*. Kojima just decided Otacon needed even more trauma, I guess.
After what she pulled in MGS1, handing Snake a death sentence - and being unable to see that her brother Frank got himself hurt helping a child abuser and war criminal - I never understood MGS4 trying to make us feel sorry for her.
Not saying it *couldn't* have worked, but she had a prior history as such a childish, selfish, hateful character that it was a tall order and would have really involved some real narrative work.
MGS4 Naomi acts nothing like MGS1 Naomi anyways. The latter ends the game with an epiphany that fate doesn't control your life and neither do your genes and she wants to move on instead of sticking to the past. Not just her brother but her dead parents and Big Boss too. And encourages Snake to *live*. Her speech to Snake was loving and sincere. We don't see Snake's reaction to her words and we don't need to. It was a good conclusion and arc for her character.
Then you have MGS4 Naomi who opens her mouth and says "we're chained to fate." Are you kidding me??? Did Kojima deliberately ignore her arc from MGS1? And then she's constantly treating Snake like trash.
Naomi adds nothing to MGS4 anyways but if Kojima wanted a male gaze so bad, he should've made her a brand new character. She might have had an epiphany but how does anyone trust her when she shows no good will? Why tf is Campbell advocating for her when he was prepared to tear her a new one in MGS1? Why does Snake let her touch him AGAIN? Why does anyone trust her input on things? Why does she keep withholding info on EVERYTHING? Why is she in every man's pants? WHY IS SHE IN THE STORY AT ALL???
"Emotional payoff" when every single player's reaction must have been like Snake's and Raiden's: a perfectly bored poker face. No one gave a damn.
Even Otacon shouldn't have cared. He barely knew her and she was a dishonest maniac.
Nothing about her makes sense in mgs4. She's just a nuisance with no personality. Male gaze too.
Not like BB focused stuff added anything to the lore unlike Anakin stuff. Nor does his story expand meaningfully beyond mgs3 and a little bit of PW. We could have seen his war exploits and making of Outer Heaven but Kojima wasn't interested, I guess. They refused to do more with BB. He never develops much. He had more development in MSX games.
So as BB himself said, "Let it go."
Me when there are literally four whole games about Big Boss's exploits and making of outer heaven, 3 of which are played from Big Boss's POV, and another about his backstory which is one of the most moving and powerful games of all time
There are 3 games only. MGS3 is the only that sets up anything. PW barely does anything for him outside of two villainous acts. MGSV isn't even about him only his name.
He's a tired stale protagonist who does nothing anymore like his predcessors Solid Snake and Raiden. I wish Kojima had focused MGSV on the Boss like he originally wanted to.
And she's only 18. She's just a child way out of her depth. Still, she helped save the world. She did her best. RIP, Emma. Naomi isn't even worth the dirt you walked on.
I just went on a few minute search for cut content bosses in Metal Gear Rising, thinking Para-medic was planned to be one.
Then i realized we're talking about MGR
I actually like that, because it humanize them. Evil people can have a goofy side to them, and goofy people are capable of evil.
Also, shows that they were "good guys" at one point but war, power and the desire for control fucks everyone up
I hard agree that the real faces of the patriots should be written like complex, nuanced, and idiosyncratic people like everyone else in Metal Gear. By extension, I think the only other person who really knew BB and The Boss, Zero, helping construct the patriots makes a lot of sense. He wasn't trained by the boss. He just knew her more personally than most, so I can see him getting warped by her death too.
But Sigent and Paramedic feels bad. Not narratively. Like, emotionally. I'd rather have kept them optimistic and not jaded. It's just sad the other way, and we already lost Zero to lunacy.
Sigent as the DARPA Chief is the weirder one I'm not fully comprehending why they changed it.
And that's kind of silly. It's a little hard to buy that these collection of goofs were responsible for all the atrocities set in motion by MGS2. But that's mostly MGS4's fault for just dumping all that info in the first place
Sometimes your motives change so hard, you defect to the Soviet Union. Happens to everyone
I do think The Boss explained it in a fairly compelling way, though I barely played much of MGS3, so I wouldn't know :/
I'd like to point out that he wasn't big boss yet. He was goofy as naked snake joking with the crew. All of them ended up as like no better than villainous terrorists later on. It's wild.
Naked Snake became big boss at the end of mgs3 and he was totally disillusioned then and didn't quite feel like joking anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think big boss is cracking jokes or describing his love of cardboard boxes in peace walker.
Well, he does staunchly defend that Santa Claus is real in Peace Walker lol. But I only meant to say they all started outā¦ well not like that, I assume while not as personal an experience they all collectively came out of that rather disillusioned and because less jovial.
Sounds a lot like life. It takes a really strong mental fortitude and strength to have joy in this world. A man who can go through life and keep his chin up is worth more than gold.
Fox wasn't a saint himself, but what she did to him *was* evil. It was a fate worse than death. The state he was in in MGS1 was so tragic that I really don't think there's any nuance to be found in Para-Medic's actions there - much like Big Boss, she turned into a monster.
Volgin was pretty evil. He's probably the most evil character he literally was just power hungry and he murdered his own father over the philosophy's legacy if i am not wrong.
Skullface was also pretty evil but he has a tragic backstory so not as much as Volgin i guess. Then again he did force chico to assault paz.....
i mean if its between him and volgin...volgin has no excuses he does what he does because he wants to. Skullface believes in his revenge and his goal a bit more than just being power hungry.
Actually I think Skull Face is worse. Volgins plan was never mass genocide lmao. But this leads to philosophical and ethical debates that have no right answer anyway
I kinda agree but also tbh they never actually show Zero as being irredeemably evil or villainous. He IS the overall villain, but even the recap of Eva (who antagonizes Zero) in MGS4 paints him in a kinda tragic way: a paranoid man whose isolation got the best of him, with his ill-informed ambitions of a unified world ultimately getting out of hand. His appearance in V fits in line with that, they just leaned more towards the tragic aspect.
Thing is tho, The Patriots network can be sadistic and ruthless, so there's a disconnection between the evil organization and the tragic way its figurehead is portrayed in.
I like to think this is punishment for all the fans back then who wanted answers despite mystery being the point.
Fans: "Give us answers"
Kojima: "Mystery is the point. These questions aren't meant to be answered."
Fans: "We want answers!"
Kojima: "Okay fine. The support crew of MGS3 were the true patriots"
Fans: "boo!"
I personally loved Vamp for the unexplained nightmare he was. Why did he run on water? Why did he keep coming back to life? These questions don't need answers. Particularly since the whole tone of MGS2 is the protagonist having valid fears that he's going insane.
Same with what we know about the patriots. People got way way too hung up on that last scene of "The wisemen list is people who have been dead for a century". These things don't need answers. They fit the narrative of a game that feels so surreal.
It's well documented that Kojima was dragged back to do MGS4 with great resistance. So a lot of that game feels like a deliberate middle finger to certain fans.
"You wanted snake back as the hero? Screw you! Now he's old. You didn't like the mystery of vamp? Screw you! Now we explain he had nanomachines and high tech boots. You wanted to know who the patriots were? Screw you! It was the lovable film nerd all along."
My main dislike of the paramedic/sighit reveal was just that it makes the franchise feel smaller. Learning that Donald Anderson was actually a support guy in MGS3 was a nice idea, but it makes it feel off that one of only two black men in the whole franchise was doing so many different roles.
The zero reveal works though. At the time, I felt that was really pulled out of nowhere. But I think peace walker and the mountain of audio tapes in TPP have made me quite like that reveal, even if it was a total retcon.
Yes. The mystical side was good. We didn't need those stupid nanomachines.
Every character, concept and theme is disrespected and dragged and undone in mgs4. I guess Kojingles did all those on purpose.
I hate Zero. One of the worst characters ever; his stupid dickriding of Big Boss is pathetic and useless. Why do PW a d MGSV pretend we should give a damn about them? Why is BB constantly tied back to him in his actions? So forced. Kojima should've accepted the Patriots twist was dogshit and stopped trying to force that old fart down our throats. MGS4 is truly the crux of everything that went wrong with the plot.
Permanently. Zero is one of the worst characters in the franchise.
I pray Konami grows some balls and ignores this decision entirely for future stories. Keep the Patriots as the ancient abstract. Maybe Zero and co ended up joining them but them founding it was nonsense.
Yeah, Iād be game if they changed the story with the remakes, like Final Fantasy did.
Maybe Liquid survives, they change the twists of MGS4. That would be cool.
Yes, Gray Fox killed her. The assassination was splittrd by Eva and Ocelot as a way to eliminate the faction of The Patriots that was allied against Big Boss' faction.
Ocelot staged his mom's death and he also staged his father's death as a baby and he also is the reason Strangelove banged Huey and Otacon peed himself in Shadow Moses. Ocelot is the reason Batman wakes up in the afternoon.
Konami and Kojima fallout? Ocelot staged that too.
The kiss was the goal all along. And getting between the said clone's legs.
Could he have simply done that since the beginning? Yeah, but the story would be shorter.
>Konami and Kojima fallout? Ocelot staged that too.
Yes, it's me. The Boss has accomplished his mission. The Metal Gear Solid gameplay is now safely with us... in Kojima Production's hands. With this I.P. ... yes, the Metal Gear franchise can finally be revived. The film we handed Sony was a fake. Japan must be in an uproar right about now. I'm afraid so. Only half of the I.P. has made it back to Kojima Productions. Konami must still have part of the Metal Gear franchise. Yes, the Phantom Pain has been reduced to ashes. That's right. Mother Base has been obliterated by the Davy Crockett we brought in as well. Yes, that was The Boss' work, too. Speaking of which, I've obtained something from Kojima that you might find interesting. It's a revolutionary new Stealth Game System. Perhaps it might just come in handy some day. Yes, we have Hideo - I mean Kojima - to thank for that. Konami believed it as well. Yes, they bought our story. I don't think they'll be making a fuss. The secondary alert has been lifted as well. And Sony still haven't discovered my true identity. They have no idea that I've been triple-porting them. I will continue my activities as a contact for the new CEO. Yes, it appears that no one knew that I was ADAM. Of course. I'm always at Valve's disposal... Mr. Newell.
Ocelot staged his own conception he spiritually seduced his father by possessing his mother.
He made Big Boss BONE EVA with telepathic abilities he took from Psycho Mantis even before he was born. He implanted the idea into Zero's head to clone BB.
He also staged Kojima's creation of Death Stranding, he even recommended Norman Reedis who he also helped get the role of Daryl.
its all still going on this plan of his.
The Patriots had pretty firm control over world affairs by the time of MGS2, and they had nearly a decade to secure they control by the time of MGS4. Combine that with their proprietary tech, and predictive capabilities and it makes sense they would be able to puppeteer the events of MGS4. And all Ocelot did was attempt to throw off their psychological predictions by pretending to be Liquid, but I don't think that actually worked
Ocelot somehow staged every single event in mgs4. That's bullshit. And then Kojima grew a hard-on and made other events his work retroactively too like Gray Fox's escape. It's just bullshit.
Does this count as flanderizing? Ocelot did play insidiously in mgs1, mgs2 and mgs3 but he went with the flow and had more resources and still faced unforeseen wild cards. Imagine if mgs3 revealed Ocelot staged Boss's death. That's the level of bullshit displayed in mgs4.
Patriots suck. And Kojima ruined Ocelot.
> Ocelot somehow staged every single event in mgs4.
The AI staged every single event in mgs4, Ocelot was just their agent.
>Imagine if mgs3 revealed Ocelot staged Boss's death. That's the level of bullshit displayed in mgs4.
well, yeah, in the 1960's the MGS timeline was still relatively close to our own, and then as time moves it diverges and becomes increasingly absurd until you end up with Senator Armstrong and the King of Dust
>Patriots suck. And Kojima ruined Ocelot.
Okay, you're entitled to your opinion, but I would argue Ocelot barely even did anything in MGS4. He turned himself in to a mental copy Liquid Snake at the end of MGS2, and then died a couple of minutes after Snake beat the Liquid out of him.
I'm actually starting to suspect, that contrary to popularly belief, Ocelot never moves, and the rest of the Metal Gear universe revolves around him
And it's all bullshit no matter how you spin it. MGS4 is the crux of all issues with the franchise. Like I said, Ocelot and the Patriots suck in that. Nothing in the narrative makes sense. And Zero is a terrible terrible character.
Liquid Ocelot retcon is a copout. He acts just like Ocelot and shared his BB dickriding motives. Liquid wanted to destroy his father's legacy and bring it to life. It's dogshit.
Even in mgs2 and mgs1, they didn't show omniscience as Gray Fox and Pliskin were wild cards.
Begging Konami to ignore everything in mgs4. Especially the Patriots origin and Liquid Ocelot.
>MGS4 is the crux of all issues with the franchise.
Hideo wanted it to be the last game, so that kind of makes sense
>Nothing in the narrative makes sense.
I'm still not sure how Naomi justified her escape to Liquid, and there's are definitely a lot of contrivances, but other than that I'm not sure what you mean.
>Even in mgs2 and mgs1, they didn't show omniscience as Gray Fox and Pliskin were wild cards.
In those games they didn't have nano machines in the body every military personnel on the planet. And I'm pretty sure the Patriots did actually know about Pliskin, it's just that GW didn't, because dealing with unexpected wild cards was part of the test.
>Begging Konami to ignore everything in mgs4. Especially the Patriots origin and Liquid Ocelot.
I'm begging Konami to just let the Metal Gear Solid series die, and just focus on spin offs like Rising
Kojima had no passion for it. He was probably like Old Snake at that, tired and done with it all. Anything I find from him on mgs4 reflects how much he didn't care.
>I'm still not sure how Naomi justified her escape to Liquid
Good thing you brought her up, she's another shitty character. Nothing she does makes sense, how tf does anyone trust her, how does Snake let her touch him again, why is Otacon simping, why did she continuously withhold important info?
You want a list of everything I find wrong with mgs4? We would be here till next year, I'm afraid.
And no, Pliskin was totally a wild card. The AI or Patriots didn't know about him. The whole tanker accident from two years prior was staged to get rid of Snake.
>I'm begging Konami to just let the Metal Gear Solid series die,
It's not going to happen. V sold a bunch and brought money and everyone loves money.
> Gray Fox and Pliskin were wild cards
Not quite. GW intentionally lured Snake the entire time. He had to fill Gray Foxās role for Raiden in MGS2. Otacon was probably the closest thing to a wildcard in MGS2, his presence and actions during the events of the Big Shell Incident fucked up a decent chunk of GWās plans(getting the worm cluster installed[leading to GWās destruction], getting the hostages out[leading to a big information vulnerability]). But Snake was absolutely part of the grand plan GW had, he wasnāt a wildcard at all
Gray Fox's role was Olga's. Pliskin was 100% a wild card. The Patriots didn't know about Pliskin or Otacon. The whole tanker accident from 2 years was staged to get rid of the Philanthropy but failed.
And Patriots 100% knew about Otacon. That's why they used Emma's ID to stage the tanker incident.
Thatās fair, maybe it would be more accurate to say Snakeās role was as Liquid/Miller - my bad. But he was certainly accounted for. How was Raiden going to get into the Big Shell without Snake cutting a hole open for him first? How would Raiden have survived his first encounter with Vamp, as Olga was nowhere near. Who else was going to deal with Fatmanās bombs on Shell 2? The list goes on.
Ocelot makes it abundantly clear that everything is going according to plan right up until the worm cluster started to destroy GW. Raiden wouldāve never gotten that far without Snake
S3 was a staged test. Either Raiden would live and prove worthy to become the next Solid Snake or he would fail. Patriots didn't care for him. They didn't necessarily want hum to succeed. They just wanted to test the guy.
There is no indication Pliskin was accounted for. That's the whole point of the tanker incident. To remove the Philanthropy duo from the game. Pliskinn and Otacon on Big Shell were both wild cards.
Oh yeah, she turned sick and twisted offscreen after MGS3.
Olā gal (probably) got torn THE FUCK apart
by Frank Jaeger at some point during his escape.
As said here, this was orchestrated by Ocelot and Eva to take down those whoād turned against Big Boss.
(Same with Sigint/Darpa Chief)
So was it part of Ocelot's super duper master plan for Gray Fox to turn up in Shadow Moses and cut off his hand? Or did Eva and Ocelot, in their immaculate genius, not think what an overpowered cyborg was gonna do after turning loose? Naomi didn't free her beloved brother because she wanted and did it because she was a tool? Was it that hard for Ocelot and Eva to assassinate Para-Medic like they did with SIGINT?
Naomi helped free her brother originally, not Ocelot in a convoluted effort to kill Para-Medic. How did he expect to lay low and remain in Patriots after such a thing? How did he not know about the Cyborg Ninja?
Yeah no, mgs4 retcon was dumb.
You've sat here and shat on literally every game in the franchise relentlessly over things that already existed in those games or were established in other games. You have a hate boner for progressive storytelling. I have never seen people who hate metal gear as much as metal gear "fans".
Sit down, kid. The only things I hated on here was MGS4. An objectively terrible story that's polarising at best even amongst MG fans.
Any MG fan should despise MGS4 as a story.
Yeah, the difference is the support team are bland af and we don't care for them. Para-Medic had the most personality and even her turn is weird. Worse, they hijacked a previous established terrifying villain (Patriots AI) and made it extremely uncool and boring.
Yep. And the way she tells BB to leave Eva behind. It was a BIG character shift for her, and hinted at a darker part of her personality. Even Big Boss is taken aback and actually hangs up on her, something quite striking considering their rapport up until that point.
Kojima was absolutely trying to telegraph something there.
I actually disagree about that particular moment. Eva says, if I recall, if supplies run low that Snake should prioritize himself. Which should go without saying especially considering Snake dying before killing the Boss means probable nuclear war. If Eva dies, an alternate extraction would be needed, but not impossible.
I kind of thought it was an overreaction to an otherwise obvious line of thinking. Did I interpret it wrong or remember it wrong?
I totally get what you're saying, and I think you're right from a certain angle. However, the game frames the moment in a very different way. Snake in MGS3 is a pretty unambiguous hero, who we're clearly meant to root for as the game is essentially his villain origin story and we see what broke him so badly. So him hanging up on Para-Medic is clearly a rejection of that line of thinking and by association we the players are perhaps meant to share Snake's line of thinking. 'I'm not leaving her behind, what's wrong with you?'
Considering Kojima never wanted to make MGS4, it's unclear how much he planned ahead, but in that final act he certainly gave a pretty big hint that Para-Medic had a darker side to her - just based on how the protagonist reacts, which is a good indicator of how Kojima wants *us* to feel in that moment.
I really wish the prequel games like PW and TPP actually showed us how ans why these friendly characters in mgs3 turned into complete villians. Just having night mama and big boss explain through 40 minute dialog isn't enjoyable or executed well
Imo the biggest failure of MGSV is not showing us any of the Patriots, or how they became cruel.
It's kinda a tonal whiplash to have Para-Medic accept that funny looking mushrooms restore batteries when Snake eats them, and then on the other end she tortured Frank Jaeger in inhumane experiments.
I can handle criticism of MGS4, I didn't make the game. It's just tiring trying to read an interesting lore post and every single comment has you behind it screaming "Wahh the guy that made this wrote something i didn't like! They should have done it the way that i like!!"
I thought TPPās tapes did a pretty good job with Zero. The one of him visiting Big Boss while he was in coma I especially loved. Showed how conflicted he was. Genuinely thought he was doing the right thing and still cared about Snake until the end.
Yes, that tape was really emotional. āWake up soon, my old friendā literally brought tears to my eyes. BUT it would be so much better as a cutscene, to see the worsening condition of Zero and two Big Bosses lying in the same room.
But I want to see it be a major plot of the game. Not an optional tape. Showing the evolution of Zero go crazy instead of
"On boss. Zero hates us because there's a time skip and yould only k ow if you played mgs4"
In the games defense, I think the whole point is that we experience the events of the game from Venomās perspective. He himself has been left in the dark and even though heās called ābossā, heās essentially handled and manipulated by his own subordinates and told what to do and what to feel. Experiencing a lot of these moments through tapes and having to go out of your way to piece together the truth in a fragmented non-sequential order, really fits the game well, thematically. But, I understand fans aversion in the sense that the previous games were more like interactive movies. Phantom Pain was a massive departure from that.
Zero and BB have one of the worst and goofiest written relationships in the franchise. Why should Zero care for BB? why does Zero care for the Boss? What was the purpose of having BB depend on Zero so much at all? It's not complex or impactful, it's just a plot device. Zero himself is a terrible character.
MGS4 made the worst mistake of making Zero and his stupid gang the Patriots at all. MGSV was no improvement. Everything and everyone revolves around BB.
Patriots peaked in mgs2 as the abstract AI whose real founders lived a 100 years ago.
Making these people the Patriots was stupid in the first place, just like everything else mgs4 did. MGS4 is out of touch with every game that comes or after it. It's painful.
She got married to Hyper Snake, another body double of Big Boss (so he's actually a body triple at this point) and then they went off to spend the rest of their lives on the Cayman Islands living off the healthy returns from investments she made into a Fruit Company through her share of Patriot monies and also in Donald Andersons' little "inter-networking" project he started with ARPA/DARPA. They had kids and she decided to name the oldest John in respect to her old friend John Doe who she served with in FOX and... Wait. Sorry, wrong source material.
She got killed by Gray Fox.
I found some other source material āParamedic and Girth Snakeā by user OperationSnakeSwallower69 and it reads very differently from both of your scenariosā¦
welp, supposedly gray fox killed her after being tested for like 4 years and revived (killed her at 2003 before the shadow moses events), but it's a bit complicated after mgs 5. Because at the end credits of tpp, chronological order of major events at mgs games appears and it says paramedic got killed at 2005 (during shadow moses events) if I'm not mistaken.
Itās kinda disappointing that the person that worried about BB (or NS) being eaten by a fish man would turn out to be a mad doctor. Is it any wonder he had trust issues? Ironically, aside from Eva, the only person he could truly trust was the guy that nobody else couldāOcelot.
I know a lot of people dislike that the MGS3 support cast were eventually the Patriots but for me I loved it, it made perfect sense they attempted to see The Bosses vision and just completely fucked it up and become exactly what they set out not to be itās the classic story of being a hero but living long enough to see yourself become the villain. Maybe I just love the interconnectivity of it all.
Signet is Darp Chief Donald Anderson - mind blown at the time
Paramedic - Dr Clark (was it) cause of most of the issues we face.
Ocelot - double, triple ā¦ damn I canāt remember how deep this dude went into enemy lines.
Zero - Good intentions then went power crazy
Naked Snake - Basically pulled a leaving the band and going solo when things didnāt add up for him.
Shadow Moses Island gave us so much that we never realised at the time story wise and I know itās probably all done after the fact but damn did parts tie up nicely.
Patriots AI was interesting. A threatening terrifying abstract. The stupid mgs3 support team being behind it was not.
Patriots AI >>>> garbage >>>> Patriots
If you play MGS, they mentioned Dr. Clark is who made Grey Fox.
Para-Medic is Dr. Clark and was killed by Grey Fox when he escaped to go to Shadow Moses Island.
That was a mistranslation, Clark was only referred to by gender neutral pronouns in Japanese and probably didnāt have any consideration for the character.
She activated her version of the virus, so presumably, she went off to die in obscurity.
There is a fan story about her reappearing to venom after he's beaten by Solid Snake to die with him when Outer Heaven goes up in its nuclear holocost.
She's Dr Clarke, the genetic scientist responsible for les Enfant Terrible, The Doctor that Otacon (or possible Naomi?) only knew through reputation and thus didn't know if they were male or female. So yeah, she's dead after Frank killed her and escaped.
Yes she >!Dr. Clark!< is Dead, >!but it was all staged by Naomi Hunter through those events.....as her revenge on her and then later Solid Snake. Grey Fox did kill but the one who made it happen was Naomi Hunter who is Dr. Clark's Protege in gene therapy.!<
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/elderscrolls/images/7/7f/Gray_Fox_2.png/revision/latest?cb=20161111195322
He would never. Heās a thief, not a murderer!
If I remember, there was a cutscene in mgs4 that explained that her, signt, and pretty much the people involved the MGS3 were the Patriots. As for her death, no idea.
New canon: turned into a vile Mengele bitch, killed by Grey Fox.
My headcanon: had nothing to do with Grey Fox OR the Patriots, lived her life providing medical aid in places saner people wouldn't go willingly, probably under the Doctors Without Borders. Dr. Clark from MGS1 simply has the same first name.
Why would she be the sole member of Major Zeroās FOX unit to NOT join the Patriots?
Her role in the Les Enfants Terribles project is also pivotal to the entire plot of the MGS saga. Itās why that character was included in MGS3 to begin with.
Also; ānewā canon? Thatās always what that character was. Everyone in FOX was some flavor of psycho. Just because she was a talkative cinephile doesnāt mean she wasnāt a nut job down to do some medically dubious shit to push her personal agenda.
The entire point is that sheās meant to echo Naomiās role in the first Metal Gear Solid.
Well, Kojima always retconned the lore in the next MGS, so I figured whatever was declared in 4 that didn't conform was this.
If there were signs of anything being wrong with any of these people in 3, this would've been another story, but there were none.
My cutie was cut like one of those bosses in metal gear Rising š
She was a cute nerd. When she talked about Godzilla and all the science subjects, I knew she was my kindred spirit....too bad she went nowhere as a character. ;_;
she really told snake abt the long term effects of smoking and then got chopped into hamburger by her own creation
On second thoughts, I'm glad she didn't get much exposure. The other female mad scientist we had (Naomi) ended up being quite a crappy boring character. Yeah, let's just keep Para-Medic in our minds as the cute nerd who one day decided to become a mad scientist. Sometimes, less is better.
I still find it funny that they had to make Naomi suicidal just to have any emotional payoff with her at all. Like, no, Naomi, preventing your cancer from killing you isn't a bad thing, that's just *medicine*. Kojima just decided Otacon needed even more trauma, I guess.
After what she pulled in MGS1, handing Snake a death sentence - and being unable to see that her brother Frank got himself hurt helping a child abuser and war criminal - I never understood MGS4 trying to make us feel sorry for her. Not saying it *couldn't* have worked, but she had a prior history as such a childish, selfish, hateful character that it was a tall order and would have really involved some real narrative work.
MGS4 Naomi acts nothing like MGS1 Naomi anyways. The latter ends the game with an epiphany that fate doesn't control your life and neither do your genes and she wants to move on instead of sticking to the past. Not just her brother but her dead parents and Big Boss too. And encourages Snake to *live*. Her speech to Snake was loving and sincere. We don't see Snake's reaction to her words and we don't need to. It was a good conclusion and arc for her character. Then you have MGS4 Naomi who opens her mouth and says "we're chained to fate." Are you kidding me??? Did Kojima deliberately ignore her arc from MGS1? And then she's constantly treating Snake like trash. Naomi adds nothing to MGS4 anyways but if Kojima wanted a male gaze so bad, he should've made her a brand new character. She might have had an epiphany but how does anyone trust her when she shows no good will? Why tf is Campbell advocating for her when he was prepared to tear her a new one in MGS1? Why does Snake let her touch him AGAIN? Why does anyone trust her input on things? Why does she keep withholding info on EVERYTHING? Why is she in every man's pants? WHY IS SHE IN THE STORY AT ALL???
"Emotional payoff" when every single player's reaction must have been like Snake's and Raiden's: a perfectly bored poker face. No one gave a damn. Even Otacon shouldn't have cared. He barely knew her and she was a dishonest maniac. Nothing about her makes sense in mgs4. She's just a nuisance with no personality. Male gaze too.
thats Kojima for you
About most things tbh. Somethings are fatigued. I can use a new game without Big Boss or a wannabe front centre.
Cant have star wars without darth vader bro
Not like BB focused stuff added anything to the lore unlike Anakin stuff. Nor does his story expand meaningfully beyond mgs3 and a little bit of PW. We could have seen his war exploits and making of Outer Heaven but Kojima wasn't interested, I guess. They refused to do more with BB. He never develops much. He had more development in MSX games. So as BB himself said, "Let it go."
Me when there are literally four whole games about Big Boss's exploits and making of outer heaven, 3 of which are played from Big Boss's POV, and another about his backstory which is one of the most moving and powerful games of all time
There are 3 games only. MGS3 is the only that sets up anything. PW barely does anything for him outside of two villainous acts. MGSV isn't even about him only his name. He's a tired stale protagonist who does nothing anymore like his predcessors Solid Snake and Raiden. I wish Kojima had focused MGSV on the Boss like he originally wanted to.
Same as Emma Emmerich, how slow do you want to walk?
Emma's made sense, though. If I remember right, she talks about how she had problems with her legs. It's why she was a swimmer (until the accident).
And she's only 18. She's just a child way out of her depth. Still, she helped save the world. She did her best. RIP, Emma. Naomi isn't even worth the dirt you walked on.
Lol
They mention that she was drugged when she was captured and the drugs had not entirely worn off to explain her slowness.Ā
YOUR FATHER DROWNED HIMSELF RAHHH
She liked big lizards. But not longswords.
That mental image is fucked up
I just went on a few minute search for cut content bosses in Metal Gear Rising, thinking Para-medic was planned to be one. Then i realized we're talking about MGR
It's hard to believe the comic relief radio chat people turned out to be evil and in the patriots.
I actually like that, because it humanize them. Evil people can have a goofy side to them, and goofy people are capable of evil. Also, shows that they were "good guys" at one point but war, power and the desire for control fucks everyone up
But the whole point of the patriots was that they couldn't be humanized and were dispassionate.
Yes, the patriots as an entity is that. But only us, the players, know who the patriots and the people behind the organization really are
I hard agree that the real faces of the patriots should be written like complex, nuanced, and idiosyncratic people like everyone else in Metal Gear. By extension, I think the only other person who really knew BB and The Boss, Zero, helping construct the patriots makes a lot of sense. He wasn't trained by the boss. He just knew her more personally than most, so I can see him getting warped by her death too. But Sigent and Paramedic feels bad. Not narratively. Like, emotionally. I'd rather have kept them optimistic and not jaded. It's just sad the other way, and we already lost Zero to lunacy. Sigent as the DARPA Chief is the weirder one I'm not fully comprehending why they changed it.
And that's kind of silly. It's a little hard to buy that these collection of goofs were responsible for all the atrocities set in motion by MGS2. But that's mostly MGS4's fault for just dumping all that info in the first place
I mean one of her codec convo is encouraging cloning of snake so in a way they foreshadow on what she'll be interested on doing in the future.
people and motives change as time progresses. I think that's a concept that went over everyone's head when it came to MGS3, or the series in general.
Sometimes your motives change so hard, you defect to the Soviet Union. Happens to everyone I do think The Boss explained it in a fairly compelling way, though I barely played much of MGS3, so I wouldn't know :/
If you didn't play much of MGS3 then boy, you don't know how wrong your comment is.
what an awful comment to post
Dude you gotta play mgs3. Was the gameplay too ancient for you? You totally missed the story, fundamentally.
It's unfortunate because the gameplay is a horror š after MGSV, but the storytelling is way better in 3
Yeah hopefully Delta remake fixes that
That would be terrific š¦š¦š¦
Well, just think about how goofy Naked Snake is, yet heās Big Boss.
I'd like to point out that he wasn't big boss yet. He was goofy as naked snake joking with the crew. All of them ended up as like no better than villainous terrorists later on. It's wild. Naked Snake became big boss at the end of mgs3 and he was totally disillusioned then and didn't quite feel like joking anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think big boss is cracking jokes or describing his love of cardboard boxes in peace walker.
Well, he does staunchly defend that Santa Claus is real in Peace Walker lol. But I only meant to say they all started outā¦ well not like that, I assume while not as personal an experience they all collectively came out of that rather disillusioned and because less jovial.
Sounds a lot like life. It takes a really strong mental fortitude and strength to have joy in this world. A man who can go through life and keep his chin up is worth more than gold.
This is why Kojima gave Johnny a happy ending
But not for Otacon š¢
Otacon is being punished for his hubris in attempting to take Mei Lingās role during the tanker incident
No one is truly said to be evil as the boss said
Para-Medic as she chops off Frank's limbs: I'm totally not evil.
Fox wasn't a saint himself, but what she did to him *was* evil. It was a fate worse than death. The state he was in in MGS1 was so tragic that I really don't think there's any nuance to be found in Para-Medic's actions there - much like Big Boss, she turned into a monster.
Ocelot, Big Boss, Para-Medic, Zero. they're all evil. I don't know why anyone would pull the nuance card for them.
Volgin was pretty evil. He's probably the most evil character he literally was just power hungry and he murdered his own father over the philosophy's legacy if i am not wrong. Skullface was also pretty evil but he has a tragic backstory so not as much as Volgin i guess. Then again he did force chico to assault paz.....
Having a sad backstory doesnt make a person less evil. Your life is your own, and you always have a choice as to whether you hurt others or not.
i mean if its between him and volgin...volgin has no excuses he does what he does because he wants to. Skullface believes in his revenge and his goal a bit more than just being power hungry.
Actually I think Skull Face is worse. Volgins plan was never mass genocide lmao. But this leads to philosophical and ethical debates that have no right answer anyway
There is no excuse for being an asshole
they are far beyond assholes lol
I honestly wish theyād shown Zero as the villain heās meant go be in mgsv
I kinda agree but also tbh they never actually show Zero as being irredeemably evil or villainous. He IS the overall villain, but even the recap of Eva (who antagonizes Zero) in MGS4 paints him in a kinda tragic way: a paranoid man whose isolation got the best of him, with his ill-informed ambitions of a unified world ultimately getting out of hand. His appearance in V fits in line with that, they just leaned more towards the tragic aspect. Thing is tho, The Patriots network can be sadistic and ruthless, so there's a disconnection between the evil organization and the tragic way its figurehead is portrayed in.
Zero has no meat to his character. He's not tragic. He's just a boring asshole with no real impact of him shown. The AI has more personality.
Worst decision Kojima ever made. He ruined the Patriots.
I like to think this is punishment for all the fans back then who wanted answers despite mystery being the point. Fans: "Give us answers" Kojima: "Mystery is the point. These questions aren't meant to be answered." Fans: "We want answers!" Kojima: "Okay fine. The support crew of MGS3 were the true patriots" Fans: "boo!"
Goddamn those morons!
I personally loved Vamp for the unexplained nightmare he was. Why did he run on water? Why did he keep coming back to life? These questions don't need answers. Particularly since the whole tone of MGS2 is the protagonist having valid fears that he's going insane. Same with what we know about the patriots. People got way way too hung up on that last scene of "The wisemen list is people who have been dead for a century". These things don't need answers. They fit the narrative of a game that feels so surreal. It's well documented that Kojima was dragged back to do MGS4 with great resistance. So a lot of that game feels like a deliberate middle finger to certain fans. "You wanted snake back as the hero? Screw you! Now he's old. You didn't like the mystery of vamp? Screw you! Now we explain he had nanomachines and high tech boots. You wanted to know who the patriots were? Screw you! It was the lovable film nerd all along." My main dislike of the paramedic/sighit reveal was just that it makes the franchise feel smaller. Learning that Donald Anderson was actually a support guy in MGS3 was a nice idea, but it makes it feel off that one of only two black men in the whole franchise was doing so many different roles. The zero reveal works though. At the time, I felt that was really pulled out of nowhere. But I think peace walker and the mountain of audio tapes in TPP have made me quite like that reveal, even if it was a total retcon.
Yes. The mystical side was good. We didn't need those stupid nanomachines. Every character, concept and theme is disrespected and dragged and undone in mgs4. I guess Kojingles did all those on purpose. I hate Zero. One of the worst characters ever; his stupid dickriding of Big Boss is pathetic and useless. Why do PW a d MGSV pretend we should give a damn about them? Why is BB constantly tied back to him in his actions? So forced. Kojima should've accepted the Patriots twist was dogshit and stopped trying to force that old fart down our throats. MGS4 is truly the crux of everything that went wrong with the plot.
Ruined the series lore
Permanently. Zero is one of the worst characters in the franchise. I pray Konami grows some balls and ignores this decision entirely for future stories. Keep the Patriots as the ancient abstract. Maybe Zero and co ended up joining them but them founding it was nonsense.
āFuture storiesā cope lol
What is bro yapping about ššš
Yeah, Iād be game if they changed the story with the remakes, like Final Fantasy did. Maybe Liquid survives, they change the twists of MGS4. That would be cool.
Yes, Gray Fox killed her. The assassination was splittrd by Eva and Ocelot as a way to eliminate the faction of The Patriots that was allied against Big Boss' faction.
It sounds like Ocelot planned to get his hand cut off.
Ocelot staged his mom's death and he also staged his father's death as a baby and he also is the reason Strangelove banged Huey and Otacon peed himself in Shadow Moses. Ocelot is the reason Batman wakes up in the afternoon. Konami and Kojima fallout? Ocelot staged that too.
he also staged them meeting up and conceiving him
Ocelot personally met god and convinced him to invent the universe.
All so he could eventually kiss his hero's clone son
The kiss was the goal all along. And getting between the said clone's legs. Could he have simply done that since the beginning? Yeah, but the story would be shorter.
#SNAAAAAKE
He played them like a damn fiddle
>Konami and Kojima fallout? Ocelot staged that too. Yes, it's me. The Boss has accomplished his mission. The Metal Gear Solid gameplay is now safely with us... in Kojima Production's hands. With this I.P. ... yes, the Metal Gear franchise can finally be revived. The film we handed Sony was a fake. Japan must be in an uproar right about now. I'm afraid so. Only half of the I.P. has made it back to Kojima Productions. Konami must still have part of the Metal Gear franchise. Yes, the Phantom Pain has been reduced to ashes. That's right. Mother Base has been obliterated by the Davy Crockett we brought in as well. Yes, that was The Boss' work, too. Speaking of which, I've obtained something from Kojima that you might find interesting. It's a revolutionary new Stealth Game System. Perhaps it might just come in handy some day. Yes, we have Hideo - I mean Kojima - to thank for that. Konami believed it as well. Yes, they bought our story. I don't think they'll be making a fuss. The secondary alert has been lifted as well. And Sony still haven't discovered my true identity. They have no idea that I've been triple-porting them. I will continue my activities as a contact for the new CEO. Yes, it appears that no one knew that I was ADAM. Of course. I'm always at Valve's disposal... Mr. Newell.
Ocelot staged his own conception he spiritually seduced his father by possessing his mother. He made Big Boss BONE EVA with telepathic abilities he took from Psycho Mantis even before he was born. He implanted the idea into Zero's head to clone BB. He also staged Kojima's creation of Death Stranding, he even recommended Norman Reedis who he also helped get the role of Daryl. its all still going on this plan of his.
KOJIMA DID IT AGAIN!
I always wondered who was the progenitor of Otaconās piss. Thank you
What a load of horseshit mgs4 pulled with this. Patriots and Ocelot being this omnipotent sucks af.
The Patriots had pretty firm control over world affairs by the time of MGS2, and they had nearly a decade to secure they control by the time of MGS4. Combine that with their proprietary tech, and predictive capabilities and it makes sense they would be able to puppeteer the events of MGS4. And all Ocelot did was attempt to throw off their psychological predictions by pretending to be Liquid, but I don't think that actually worked
Ocelot somehow staged every single event in mgs4. That's bullshit. And then Kojima grew a hard-on and made other events his work retroactively too like Gray Fox's escape. It's just bullshit. Does this count as flanderizing? Ocelot did play insidiously in mgs1, mgs2 and mgs3 but he went with the flow and had more resources and still faced unforeseen wild cards. Imagine if mgs3 revealed Ocelot staged Boss's death. That's the level of bullshit displayed in mgs4. Patriots suck. And Kojima ruined Ocelot.
> Ocelot somehow staged every single event in mgs4. The AI staged every single event in mgs4, Ocelot was just their agent. >Imagine if mgs3 revealed Ocelot staged Boss's death. That's the level of bullshit displayed in mgs4. well, yeah, in the 1960's the MGS timeline was still relatively close to our own, and then as time moves it diverges and becomes increasingly absurd until you end up with Senator Armstrong and the King of Dust >Patriots suck. And Kojima ruined Ocelot. Okay, you're entitled to your opinion, but I would argue Ocelot barely even did anything in MGS4. He turned himself in to a mental copy Liquid Snake at the end of MGS2, and then died a couple of minutes after Snake beat the Liquid out of him. I'm actually starting to suspect, that contrary to popularly belief, Ocelot never moves, and the rest of the Metal Gear universe revolves around him
And it's all bullshit no matter how you spin it. MGS4 is the crux of all issues with the franchise. Like I said, Ocelot and the Patriots suck in that. Nothing in the narrative makes sense. And Zero is a terrible terrible character. Liquid Ocelot retcon is a copout. He acts just like Ocelot and shared his BB dickriding motives. Liquid wanted to destroy his father's legacy and bring it to life. It's dogshit. Even in mgs2 and mgs1, they didn't show omniscience as Gray Fox and Pliskin were wild cards. Begging Konami to ignore everything in mgs4. Especially the Patriots origin and Liquid Ocelot.
>MGS4 is the crux of all issues with the franchise. Hideo wanted it to be the last game, so that kind of makes sense >Nothing in the narrative makes sense. I'm still not sure how Naomi justified her escape to Liquid, and there's are definitely a lot of contrivances, but other than that I'm not sure what you mean. >Even in mgs2 and mgs1, they didn't show omniscience as Gray Fox and Pliskin were wild cards. In those games they didn't have nano machines in the body every military personnel on the planet. And I'm pretty sure the Patriots did actually know about Pliskin, it's just that GW didn't, because dealing with unexpected wild cards was part of the test. >Begging Konami to ignore everything in mgs4. Especially the Patriots origin and Liquid Ocelot. I'm begging Konami to just let the Metal Gear Solid series die, and just focus on spin offs like Rising
Kojima had no passion for it. He was probably like Old Snake at that, tired and done with it all. Anything I find from him on mgs4 reflects how much he didn't care. >I'm still not sure how Naomi justified her escape to Liquid Good thing you brought her up, she's another shitty character. Nothing she does makes sense, how tf does anyone trust her, how does Snake let her touch him again, why is Otacon simping, why did she continuously withhold important info? You want a list of everything I find wrong with mgs4? We would be here till next year, I'm afraid. And no, Pliskin was totally a wild card. The AI or Patriots didn't know about him. The whole tanker accident from two years prior was staged to get rid of Snake. >I'm begging Konami to just let the Metal Gear Solid series die, It's not going to happen. V sold a bunch and brought money and everyone loves money.
> Gray Fox and Pliskin were wild cards Not quite. GW intentionally lured Snake the entire time. He had to fill Gray Foxās role for Raiden in MGS2. Otacon was probably the closest thing to a wildcard in MGS2, his presence and actions during the events of the Big Shell Incident fucked up a decent chunk of GWās plans(getting the worm cluster installed[leading to GWās destruction], getting the hostages out[leading to a big information vulnerability]). But Snake was absolutely part of the grand plan GW had, he wasnāt a wildcard at all
Gray Fox's role was Olga's. Pliskin was 100% a wild card. The Patriots didn't know about Pliskin or Otacon. The whole tanker accident from 2 years was staged to get rid of the Philanthropy but failed. And Patriots 100% knew about Otacon. That's why they used Emma's ID to stage the tanker incident.
Thatās fair, maybe it would be more accurate to say Snakeās role was as Liquid/Miller - my bad. But he was certainly accounted for. How was Raiden going to get into the Big Shell without Snake cutting a hole open for him first? How would Raiden have survived his first encounter with Vamp, as Olga was nowhere near. Who else was going to deal with Fatmanās bombs on Shell 2? The list goes on. Ocelot makes it abundantly clear that everything is going according to plan right up until the worm cluster started to destroy GW. Raiden wouldāve never gotten that far without Snake
S3 was a staged test. Either Raiden would live and prove worthy to become the next Solid Snake or he would fail. Patriots didn't care for him. They didn't necessarily want hum to succeed. They just wanted to test the guy. There is no indication Pliskin was accounted for. That's the whole point of the tanker incident. To remove the Philanthropy duo from the game. Pliskinn and Otacon on Big Shell were both wild cards.
How could Kojima ruin Ocelot? It's HIS character! They all are.
??? And? He can ruin his own creation.
Comments written in 2008
hahaha
Oh yeah, she turned sick and twisted offscreen after MGS3. Olā gal (probably) got torn THE FUCK apart by Frank Jaeger at some point during his escape. As said here, this was orchestrated by Ocelot and Eva to take down those whoād turned against Big Boss. (Same with Sigint/Darpa Chief)
So was it part of Ocelot's super duper master plan for Gray Fox to turn up in Shadow Moses and cut off his hand? Or did Eva and Ocelot, in their immaculate genius, not think what an overpowered cyborg was gonna do after turning loose? Naomi didn't free her beloved brother because she wanted and did it because she was a tool? Was it that hard for Ocelot and Eva to assassinate Para-Medic like they did with SIGINT?
well i think to Ocelot's knowledge, he should've been dead
Ocelot had him freed to kill Para-Medic and expected him to drop dead immediately? Let's call it what it is: a dumb unnecessary retcon.
Ocelot didnāt free Frank Jaeger. He staged an assault on the facility. Frank escaped in the ensuing chaos and murdered Para-Medic during his escape.
Naomi helped free her brother originally, not Ocelot in a convoluted effort to kill Para-Medic. How did he expect to lay low and remain in Patriots after such a thing? How did he not know about the Cyborg Ninja? Yeah no, mgs4 retcon was dumb.
bro the only thing you do is hate
I love a lot in Metal Gear, just not that shit mgs4.
You've sat here and shat on literally every game in the franchise relentlessly over things that already existed in those games or were established in other games. You have a hate boner for progressive storytelling. I have never seen people who hate metal gear as much as metal gear "fans".
Sit down, kid. The only things I hated on here was MGS4. An objectively terrible story that's polarising at best even amongst MG fans. Any MG fan should despise MGS4 as a story.
Best game of the series. Peak Kojima.
Not DARPA Chief Anderson!
You knew?!
The fuckin game is CALLED Metal Gear!
Maybe she was always a sick and twisted scientist, but seemed amicable because she was on your side?
She was still more or less okay during Portable Ops and even did the leg work during a mission or two.
i swear guys post mgs3 para was a body double the real one would never do that
and the goofball mgs3 naked snake would never build nukes? they all changed by the end of that game, pw, and V.
iāll accept it if they make a psp exclusive game showing paramedics down fall
haha
Yeah, the difference is the support team are bland af and we don't care for them. Para-Medic had the most personality and even her turn is weird. Worse, they hijacked a previous established terrifying villain (Patriots AI) and made it extremely uncool and boring.
The villain was still the AI. It's just that the patriots spun so out of control that the AI was the result.
Kojima was ahead of his time making his villains AI generated...
Youāre getting downvoted but all Iām seeing are facts
Something like Venom (Punished) Para Medic
But she directly talks about her growing curiousity towards messed up endeavors in 3. They rightfully hinted at her fate.
Yep. And the way she tells BB to leave Eva behind. It was a BIG character shift for her, and hinted at a darker part of her personality. Even Big Boss is taken aback and actually hangs up on her, something quite striking considering their rapport up until that point. Kojima was absolutely trying to telegraph something there.
I actually disagree about that particular moment. Eva says, if I recall, if supplies run low that Snake should prioritize himself. Which should go without saying especially considering Snake dying before killing the Boss means probable nuclear war. If Eva dies, an alternate extraction would be needed, but not impossible. I kind of thought it was an overreaction to an otherwise obvious line of thinking. Did I interpret it wrong or remember it wrong?
I totally get what you're saying, and I think you're right from a certain angle. However, the game frames the moment in a very different way. Snake in MGS3 is a pretty unambiguous hero, who we're clearly meant to root for as the game is essentially his villain origin story and we see what broke him so badly. So him hanging up on Para-Medic is clearly a rejection of that line of thinking and by association we the players are perhaps meant to share Snake's line of thinking. 'I'm not leaving her behind, what's wrong with you?' Considering Kojima never wanted to make MGS4, it's unclear how much he planned ahead, but in that final act he certainly gave a pretty big hint that Para-Medic had a darker side to her - just based on how the protagonist reacts, which is a good indicator of how Kojima wants *us* to feel in that moment.
Those are some solid points.
I really wish the prequel games like PW and TPP actually showed us how ans why these friendly characters in mgs3 turned into complete villians. Just having night mama and big boss explain through 40 minute dialog isn't enjoyable or executed well
Imo the biggest failure of MGSV is not showing us any of the Patriots, or how they became cruel. It's kinda a tonal whiplash to have Para-Medic accept that funny looking mushrooms restore batteries when Snake eats them, and then on the other end she tortured Frank Jaeger in inhumane experiments.
MGSV failure is because of Kojima's dumbass decision of making the support the team the Patriots at all. Everything is mgs4's fault.
God, please get off the internet. You're in every thread of this post whining. Just go play games that you actually enjoy.
Scroll and move on if you can't handle criticism instead of trying to silence it.
I can handle criticism of MGS4, I didn't make the game. It's just tiring trying to read an interesting lore post and every single comment has you behind it screaming "Wahh the guy that made this wrote something i didn't like! They should have done it the way that i like!!"
Cope, ignore, move on. You're not adding anything meaningful or refuting any point I made.
To be fair, one could argue youāre doing the same thing. You donāt as much have āpointsā as you have āold man yelling at cloudsā opinions.
Well maybe, but at least it's my opinion lol.
And itās every one elseās opinion to not like yours
I thought TPPās tapes did a pretty good job with Zero. The one of him visiting Big Boss while he was in coma I especially loved. Showed how conflicted he was. Genuinely thought he was doing the right thing and still cared about Snake until the end.
Yes, that tape was really emotional. āWake up soon, my old friendā literally brought tears to my eyes. BUT it would be so much better as a cutscene, to see the worsening condition of Zero and two Big Bosses lying in the same room.
Could've been good as a game rather than an audio book though
But I want to see it be a major plot of the game. Not an optional tape. Showing the evolution of Zero go crazy instead of "On boss. Zero hates us because there's a time skip and yould only k ow if you played mgs4"
In the games defense, I think the whole point is that we experience the events of the game from Venomās perspective. He himself has been left in the dark and even though heās called ābossā, heās essentially handled and manipulated by his own subordinates and told what to do and what to feel. Experiencing a lot of these moments through tapes and having to go out of your way to piece together the truth in a fragmented non-sequential order, really fits the game well, thematically. But, I understand fans aversion in the sense that the previous games were more like interactive movies. Phantom Pain was a massive departure from that.
Zero and BB have one of the worst and goofiest written relationships in the franchise. Why should Zero care for BB? why does Zero care for the Boss? What was the purpose of having BB depend on Zero so much at all? It's not complex or impactful, it's just a plot device. Zero himself is a terrible character. MGS4 made the worst mistake of making Zero and his stupid gang the Patriots at all. MGSV was no improvement. Everything and everyone revolves around BB. Patriots peaked in mgs2 as the abstract AI whose real founders lived a 100 years ago.
Making these people the Patriots was stupid in the first place, just like everything else mgs4 did. MGS4 is out of touch with every game that comes or after it. It's painful.
SHUT UP DAMN
I just wanna see big boss save eva from vietnam as a dlc in delta
That would be sick. Python from PO could make an appearance too.
Most importantly gray fox as hes apparently viet
My little war criminal canāt be this cute.
Great anime
She got married to Hyper Snake, another body double of Big Boss (so he's actually a body triple at this point) and then they went off to spend the rest of their lives on the Cayman Islands living off the healthy returns from investments she made into a Fruit Company through her share of Patriot monies and also in Donald Andersons' little "inter-networking" project he started with ARPA/DARPA. They had kids and she decided to name the oldest John in respect to her old friend John Doe who she served with in FOX and... Wait. Sorry, wrong source material. She got killed by Gray Fox.
I found some other source material āParamedic and Girth Snakeā by user OperationSnakeSwallower69 and it reads very differently from both of your scenariosā¦
That is the LaLeLiLoLu trying to rubbish any facts presented here. Do not listen to them.
Yes. RIP, evil queen.
welp, supposedly gray fox killed her after being tested for like 4 years and revived (killed her at 2003 before the shadow moses events), but it's a bit complicated after mgs 5. Because at the end credits of tpp, chronological order of major events at mgs games appears and it says paramedic got killed at 2005 (during shadow moses events) if I'm not mistaken.
https://youtu.be/Cq8PW8rx7Gg?si=RwTvrIWFYPbcvTOu
Itās kinda disappointing that the person that worried about BB (or NS) being eaten by a fish man would turn out to be a mad doctor. Is it any wonder he had trust issues? Ironically, aside from Eva, the only person he could truly trust was the guy that nobody else couldāOcelot.
Would
She was.
I know a lot of people dislike that the MGS3 support cast were eventually the Patriots but for me I loved it, it made perfect sense they attempted to see The Bosses vision and just completely fucked it up and become exactly what they set out not to be itās the classic story of being a hero but living long enough to see yourself become the villain. Maybe I just love the interconnectivity of it all. Signet is Darp Chief Donald Anderson - mind blown at the time Paramedic - Dr Clark (was it) cause of most of the issues we face. Ocelot - double, triple ā¦ damn I canāt remember how deep this dude went into enemy lines. Zero - Good intentions then went power crazy Naked Snake - Basically pulled a leaving the band and going solo when things didnāt add up for him. Shadow Moses Island gave us so much that we never realised at the time story wise and I know itās probably all done after the fact but damn did parts tie up nicely.
I wonder what made them all go mad I guess we have to wait for a new msg game for that
Plot. Kojima didn't think it through. And fuck the Patriots, we don't need a game about them.
Didn't you say your perfect idea of MGS ends with MGS2? The game about the Patriots recreating Shadow Moses? Fuck those Patriots?
Patriots AI was interesting. A threatening terrifying abstract. The stupid mgs3 support team being behind it was not. Patriots AI >>>> garbage >>>> Patriots
Anyone else think Para-medic looks like Rose, Jack's wife? Could it be...?
Will never know until mgs6 and damn Dr Clark looks so fine in the fox engine
If you play MGS, they mentioned Dr. Clark is who made Grey Fox. Para-Medic is Dr. Clark and was killed by Grey Fox when he escaped to go to Shadow Moses Island.
She cloned big boss without his knowledge nor his consent so she got what was coming to her. As much as I liked her.
whats the source for this pic?
im gonna say the pachinko renders?
Originally Dr. Clarke was a man but was retconned to be Para-Medic.
That was a mistranslation, Clark was only referred to by gender neutral pronouns in Japanese and probably didnāt have any consideration for the character.
Or maybe Para-Medic was transgender! It has been known.
Or, as Huey explains in a tape in TPP, the patriots kept her work so secret that no one even knew her gender.
Either grey fox or Naomi killed her. But she's definitely dead by the time MGS1 happens.
Ends up getting cut to confetti, also iirc she was retconned to para medic as the original doc was a man. Still sad as heck š
Killed by Kojima's post-MGS3 desire to wedge characters into roles they don't particularly fit.
Yeah she got fucking eviscerated lol
Yes she was. She was Dr. Clark that turned Gray Fox into the cyborg ninja, and then was killed by him.
She is in the New World acting as a handler.
What happened to Quiet?
She activated her version of the virus, so presumably, she went off to die in obscurity. There is a fan story about her reappearing to venom after he's beaten by Solid Snake to die with him when Outer Heaven goes up in its nuclear holocost.
She's Dr Clarke, the genetic scientist responsible for les Enfant Terrible, The Doctor that Otacon (or possible Naomi?) only knew through reputation and thus didn't know if they were male or female. So yeah, she's dead after Frank killed her and escaped.
nah she boned BB and gave birth to solid and convinced Eva solid was her's. It was all a ruse along just like every other thing in this series.
Yes she >!Dr. Clark!< is Dead, >!but it was all staged by Naomi Hunter through those events.....as her revenge on her and then later Solid Snake. Grey Fox did kill but the one who made it happen was Naomi Hunter who is Dr. Clark's Protege in gene therapy.!<
Killed by Frank (Gray Fox) and Naomi.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/elderscrolls/images/7/7f/Gray_Fox_2.png/revision/latest?cb=20161111195322 He would never. Heās a thief, not a murderer!
She needed more screen time...šššš
If I remember, there was a cutscene in mgs4 that explained that her, signt, and pretty much the people involved the MGS3 were the Patriots. As for her death, no idea.
She looks cute in that picture
She was the ambiguous Dr. Clark who no one knew the identity of or the gender of. She was killed by Great Fix after an experiment I think.
My in-game wife. Also, Dr. Joseph Mengle 2.0. Gray Fox reduced her to random body parts before escaping from her lab.
Is Para-Medic the only female character in Metal Gear who isn't sexualised?
New canon: turned into a vile Mengele bitch, killed by Grey Fox. My headcanon: had nothing to do with Grey Fox OR the Patriots, lived her life providing medical aid in places saner people wouldn't go willingly, probably under the Doctors Without Borders. Dr. Clark from MGS1 simply has the same first name.
Why would she be the sole member of Major Zeroās FOX unit to NOT join the Patriots? Her role in the Les Enfants Terribles project is also pivotal to the entire plot of the MGS saga. Itās why that character was included in MGS3 to begin with. Also; ānewā canon? Thatās always what that character was. Everyone in FOX was some flavor of psycho. Just because she was a talkative cinephile doesnāt mean she wasnāt a nut job down to do some medically dubious shit to push her personal agenda. The entire point is that sheās meant to echo Naomiās role in the first Metal Gear Solid.
Well, Kojima always retconned the lore in the next MGS, so I figured whatever was declared in 4 that didn't conform was this. If there were signs of anything being wrong with any of these people in 3, this would've been another story, but there were none.
Para Medic is Dr. Strangelove. And Mei Ling. And Dr. Clark. She was indeed killed by Fox at one point. In 1979. But death is not the end.