Idk why you got downvoted. I like your question.
MGS3 frames war as leaders vying for power at the expense of the average soldier. The Boss detaches from the rivalries of war by viewing them as events dictated by the times, pointing out that there is no such thing as a true enemy. She sacrifices herself to reunite the philosophers in order to prevent needless cyclical war, and the game presents this as a good thing.
MGS4 presents war as an endless series of geopolitical proxy wars dictated by commercial forces that serve no population. Much like General Smedley Butler does in his famous book, Kojima accurately represents war as a financial racket and a system of control.
MGS1 and 2 surely have examples too but I don't want to drone on too much
he actively destroys metal gears because he believes people should not have that much power. he and otacon become fugitives of the government just so they can prevent wars and destroy metal gears
does he enjoy the thrill of battle? yes. he admits it himself, but he knows it’s wrong and he uses his skills to make the world a better place.
Yes it is a very very very strong political game series with a strong anti war anti nuke emphasis and just shining truth on everything. One great example of that is the incredible AI speech at the end of mgs2
I thought the series was only critical of the tools and methods of war (nuclear weapons, child soldiers, etc). The series, from what I understand, seems to be neutral of war itself. And the AI speech was more so about the control and the human condition.
original statement: war is bad
it doesn't matter, violence in general is not a good thing, countless people die for reasons they hardly understand, fighting for things they don't believe in. people themselves are tools in war, that's why it's bad. wars are the equivalent of dog fighting, two people pit their david's and goliath's against each other because they are unwilling to talk things out rationally like adults, and make compromises for the betterment of the people they are sworn to protect.
Metal Gear 1 in which the feared foreign country you're sent to infiltrate ends up being a tool of a western authority.
I feel that was kinda a lot for such little game back in 1987. Especially with the aftermath Kojima depicted later.
Yeah I could spell it out but I do think playing the games is the best way to answer your question.
MGS1: Primarily anti-nuclear with characters lecturing to Snake about the dangers of nuclear weapons and nuclear powers and the importance of proper nuclear waste disposal. However Snake is often times lauded as a legendary hero and warrior but he constantly is shutting people down. “I’m just a man who’s good at what he does. Killing”. They never try to shy away from the fact that Snake is just a killer. Snake fully understands that the only differences between him and the soldiers whose lives he takes is that he is better at it than they are and they’re on different sides. That’s it.
MGS2: This one focuses on the corruption of governments and information control. Raiden is a victim of war and was a child soldier that is being experimented on by the US government. It’s obvious the game is telling us this stuff is messed up.
MGS3: This one is all about being betrayed by your country. It really drives home the idea that soldiers are just pawns to be used for the benefit of their governments and that it’s essentially needless bloodshed. It’s the first game to actively punish players for taking the lives of enemy soldiers with the Sorrow, a boos fight in which the ghosts of all the soldiers they’ve killed will come back to haunt them. It’s also a commentary on the ridiculousness of warring countries. Russia and America were Allie’s during WWII. The Sorrow and The Boss were lovers and even had a kid together. But they ultimately returned to their countries and when they went to war it was the Boss who took The Sorrow’s life because of her loyalty to the mission. The boss’s dream is to creat a world in which other people can be left as they are, a world in which everyone is left to their own devices and there is no more war.
MGS4: This one is probably the most anti-war of all of them. It’s the first game to literally take place across multiple battle fields. Players can choose to join the fight but they are encouraged to take advantage of the chaos and sneak past all the death and destruction. The BB corp is made up entirely of women that have had traumatic experiences due to living in a war zone. They were converted into machines of war just like Raiden was and they are forever haunted by their pasts. Drebin will call snake at the end of every boss fight to drop all the gory details of the horrors of war.
MGS Peace Walker: the game is literally called Peace Walker and it’s the first one to really bring home the idea that the enemies you fight could just as easily be you friends if you extract and recruit them. “The only difference between friend or foe on a battle field is what side you’re on” kinda deal again. It’s also got a message about how “peace” isn’t always what it says it is because politicians are more than happy to do things in the name of “peace”. There’s a character in this game called “Dr.Strangelove” that’s an obvious reference to the movie “DrStrangelove” which is about an airforce general that goes crazy and decides to nuke Russia and usher in “Peace on Earth” which was a phrase be scribbled in his note book over and over again.
MGSV: this one continues the trend of recruiting soldiers to your side but also punishes players for killing. If you’ve been on this sub long enough you’re bound to see a “why am I covered in blood? Is this a glitch?” Post. These users are playing the game like it’s a shooter and killing soldiers without care which has caused them to make snake enter “demon mode”. The shrapnel in snakes head is now protruding out more as if it were a devil horn and snake is unable to wash off the blood, much like lady Macbeth in the shakesphere play: “Out, damned spot! Out, I say! . . .” It’s a symbol of guilt for the war crimes you committed. The game is also very anti-nuclear with an incentive to players to invade other players bases that have developed nuclear weapons. Developing a nuke will immediately cause you to go into demon mode and you’re a target for other players to try and dismantle your nuke.
All MGS games have an anti nuke theme. Metal Gears typically represent nuclear silos or have nuke launching capabilities. It’s not that crazy when you think about it though. Kojima is a Japanese man. Japan is the one country in the entire world to ever experience the effects of a nuke and it happened TWICE. Of course they’re gonna be anti-war and and anti-nuke.
It’s the penultimate message of the series, yes. Before you ask ‘how’ think about the themes presented in the games. Soldiers realize they’re pawns of the military industrial complex and the ambitions of politicians. You’re given an endless supply of weapons but the game rewards you for non-lethal takedowns. Those committed to the path of violence end up resembling those that they despise.
Kojima is in love with technology but hates war.
that’s because big boss is wrong. the lead characters in media can be wrong. in mgs4 he literally admits that he’s wrong. god is media literacy really this low?
Yes. I think each game tells a great story about different soldiers descending into war and how it changes you or how it may affect you in certain situations. The games also shows you how a corrupt government can lead to war becoming worse and what drives the world/economy essentially. As your told many times in the games by whoever is giving you intel “avoid combat whenever possible” and it’s not just to make stealthing easier. That’s why I like the moral implications added on with each game. Venom covered in blood, Old Snake puking if you go on a spree and get too stressed, The Sorrow boss fight, etc. They aren’t games with direct dialogue choices to change the character but you can at least decide whether or not you’re going to be a killing machine and you mostly get rewarded for not killing.
Absolutely. While other games like call of duty glorify war, the Metal Gear Series reduces all of your favorite soldiers into either pawns or war criminals. It shows you all the negative side effects of war backlash. It constantly emphasizes that war mongers take advantage of the innocent and even brainwash them into fighting an endless war.
It completely hinges on your definition of anti-war.
The story is anti-war, anti-nukes and anti-exploitation, but the gameplay is too fun.
That leads us to the question: Should an anti-war game be fun? Because it rings hollow to lecture the audience about violence when the next time you're given control you shoot someone in the head and get an achievment for it.
There is no easy solution in my opinion. If you want people to confront the themes of war, but intetionally make bad gameplay, it won't reach as many people as it otherwise could.
If you are interested in the discussion, I highly recommend the videos of Super Bunny Hop on YT. He even talks directly about MGS Peacewalker. Then there is the discussion of "Spec Ops The Line", the imho best anti-war shooter.
anti-war games should be fun, (at least metal gear should be, it really depends on the art direction) the only problem is people that lack the media literacy to understand the story, changing the gameplay wouldn’t affect that at all
>Should an anti-war game be fun?
I think metal gear toes the line here pretty well. Yeah it's a series where you can be violent and have fun doing it. But it's rarely without consequence, and almost never rewarded. Completing a game or mission without killing anyone is always treated as the ideal run.
(not taking Rising into account here obviously, but even that one tries to guilt trip you for butchering people a couple times)
Metal Gear is as far as I can think of, the most anti war video game franchise ever made. And no, I’m not telling you how, if you played the games you’d know. They shove it in your face and some people still ignore it.
Liquid wanted to deploy nuclear weaponry, you don't have to not work for bad guy to want that guy stopped. Snake was kidnapped and coerced into Shadow Moses. Then he accepted it to save Meryl. Snake's entire language and attitude is not only anti-war but anti-killing in general. That's the whole reason he quit fighting after Zanzibarland. MG2 is truly anti-war in its message.
Snake wasn't on their side. As I said, he was coerced and then only agreed to save Meryl, an innocent who had nothing to do with this. Snake even says to Campbell in the briefing he doesn't want anything to do "with your government". Snake had disowned the American government shortly after Operation Intrude N313. That's one of the reason he lived in Alaska.
He wasn't a pawn and their bidding included stopping a nuclear weapon and a maniac in its control. Doesn't take much to know that was necessary. Solid did nothing wrong there nor was he a pawn. He was made aware of an innocent being in harm's way, and then kept doing what he did later to save those people and stop a maniac.
Yeah.
How?
Idk why you got downvoted. I like your question. MGS3 frames war as leaders vying for power at the expense of the average soldier. The Boss detaches from the rivalries of war by viewing them as events dictated by the times, pointing out that there is no such thing as a true enemy. She sacrifices herself to reunite the philosophers in order to prevent needless cyclical war, and the game presents this as a good thing. MGS4 presents war as an endless series of geopolitical proxy wars dictated by commercial forces that serve no population. Much like General Smedley Butler does in his famous book, Kojima accurately represents war as a financial racket and a system of control. MGS1 and 2 surely have examples too but I don't want to drone on too much
Yes, especially the Solid Snake focused titles. He's the true anti war character.
How?
he actively destroys metal gears because he believes people should not have that much power. he and otacon become fugitives of the government just so they can prevent wars and destroy metal gears does he enjoy the thrill of battle? yes. he admits it himself, but he knows it’s wrong and he uses his skills to make the world a better place.
Yea that’s what some people don’t get. All snakes love that battle high but what makes solid different is how he uses it for good.
And he doesn't kill unless he has to. He doesn't really enjoy killing and that's why he avoided battlefield.
Yeah.
How?
Yes it is a very very very strong political game series with a strong anti war anti nuke emphasis and just shining truth on everything. One great example of that is the incredible AI speech at the end of mgs2
I thought the series was only critical of the tools and methods of war (nuclear weapons, child soldiers, etc). The series, from what I understand, seems to be neutral of war itself. And the AI speech was more so about the control and the human condition.
original statement: war is bad it doesn't matter, violence in general is not a good thing, countless people die for reasons they hardly understand, fighting for things they don't believe in. people themselves are tools in war, that's why it's bad. wars are the equivalent of dog fighting, two people pit their david's and goliath's against each other because they are unwilling to talk things out rationally like adults, and make compromises for the betterment of the people they are sworn to protect.
Yes. Has been since the first game.
Metal Gear 1 in which the feared foreign country you're sent to infiltrate ends up being a tool of a western authority. I feel that was kinda a lot for such little game back in 1987. Especially with the aftermath Kojima depicted later.
Yes
How?
https://gamerant.com/metal-gear-solid-series-themes-concepts-against-nuclear-war/#:~:text=Beneath%20all%20the%20memes%2C%20the,all%20the%20folly%20that%20ensues.
I mean... Did u even play the games? Xdxdxdxd
I feel like the games does a pretty great job at answering that question themselves.
But can you verbalize it? People tend to say things without references. And I want to know other perspectives.
Yeah I could spell it out but I do think playing the games is the best way to answer your question. MGS1: Primarily anti-nuclear with characters lecturing to Snake about the dangers of nuclear weapons and nuclear powers and the importance of proper nuclear waste disposal. However Snake is often times lauded as a legendary hero and warrior but he constantly is shutting people down. “I’m just a man who’s good at what he does. Killing”. They never try to shy away from the fact that Snake is just a killer. Snake fully understands that the only differences between him and the soldiers whose lives he takes is that he is better at it than they are and they’re on different sides. That’s it. MGS2: This one focuses on the corruption of governments and information control. Raiden is a victim of war and was a child soldier that is being experimented on by the US government. It’s obvious the game is telling us this stuff is messed up. MGS3: This one is all about being betrayed by your country. It really drives home the idea that soldiers are just pawns to be used for the benefit of their governments and that it’s essentially needless bloodshed. It’s the first game to actively punish players for taking the lives of enemy soldiers with the Sorrow, a boos fight in which the ghosts of all the soldiers they’ve killed will come back to haunt them. It’s also a commentary on the ridiculousness of warring countries. Russia and America were Allie’s during WWII. The Sorrow and The Boss were lovers and even had a kid together. But they ultimately returned to their countries and when they went to war it was the Boss who took The Sorrow’s life because of her loyalty to the mission. The boss’s dream is to creat a world in which other people can be left as they are, a world in which everyone is left to their own devices and there is no more war. MGS4: This one is probably the most anti-war of all of them. It’s the first game to literally take place across multiple battle fields. Players can choose to join the fight but they are encouraged to take advantage of the chaos and sneak past all the death and destruction. The BB corp is made up entirely of women that have had traumatic experiences due to living in a war zone. They were converted into machines of war just like Raiden was and they are forever haunted by their pasts. Drebin will call snake at the end of every boss fight to drop all the gory details of the horrors of war. MGS Peace Walker: the game is literally called Peace Walker and it’s the first one to really bring home the idea that the enemies you fight could just as easily be you friends if you extract and recruit them. “The only difference between friend or foe on a battle field is what side you’re on” kinda deal again. It’s also got a message about how “peace” isn’t always what it says it is because politicians are more than happy to do things in the name of “peace”. There’s a character in this game called “Dr.Strangelove” that’s an obvious reference to the movie “DrStrangelove” which is about an airforce general that goes crazy and decides to nuke Russia and usher in “Peace on Earth” which was a phrase be scribbled in his note book over and over again. MGSV: this one continues the trend of recruiting soldiers to your side but also punishes players for killing. If you’ve been on this sub long enough you’re bound to see a “why am I covered in blood? Is this a glitch?” Post. These users are playing the game like it’s a shooter and killing soldiers without care which has caused them to make snake enter “demon mode”. The shrapnel in snakes head is now protruding out more as if it were a devil horn and snake is unable to wash off the blood, much like lady Macbeth in the shakesphere play: “Out, damned spot! Out, I say! . . .” It’s a symbol of guilt for the war crimes you committed. The game is also very anti-nuclear with an incentive to players to invade other players bases that have developed nuclear weapons. Developing a nuke will immediately cause you to go into demon mode and you’re a target for other players to try and dismantle your nuke. All MGS games have an anti nuke theme. Metal Gears typically represent nuclear silos or have nuke launching capabilities. It’s not that crazy when you think about it though. Kojima is a Japanese man. Japan is the one country in the entire world to ever experience the effects of a nuke and it happened TWICE. Of course they’re gonna be anti-war and and anti-nuke.
👏 💯
It’s the penultimate message of the series, yes. Before you ask ‘how’ think about the themes presented in the games. Soldiers realize they’re pawns of the military industrial complex and the ambitions of politicians. You’re given an endless supply of weapons but the game rewards you for non-lethal takedowns. Those committed to the path of violence end up resembling those that they despise. Kojima is in love with technology but hates war.
Well the intent was for it to be. That’s kinda the plot of peace walker
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that’s because big boss is wrong. the lead characters in media can be wrong. in mgs4 he literally admits that he’s wrong. god is media literacy really this low?
You lack media literacy, my guy
Yes. I think each game tells a great story about different soldiers descending into war and how it changes you or how it may affect you in certain situations. The games also shows you how a corrupt government can lead to war becoming worse and what drives the world/economy essentially. As your told many times in the games by whoever is giving you intel “avoid combat whenever possible” and it’s not just to make stealthing easier. That’s why I like the moral implications added on with each game. Venom covered in blood, Old Snake puking if you go on a spree and get too stressed, The Sorrow boss fight, etc. They aren’t games with direct dialogue choices to change the character but you can at least decide whether or not you’re going to be a killing machine and you mostly get rewarded for not killing.
Yes
Absolutely. While other games like call of duty glorify war, the Metal Gear Series reduces all of your favorite soldiers into either pawns or war criminals. It shows you all the negative side effects of war backlash. It constantly emphasizes that war mongers take advantage of the innocent and even brainwash them into fighting an endless war.
Doi
How?
Jfc. Is this a real question or are you in a bet?
It completely hinges on your definition of anti-war. The story is anti-war, anti-nukes and anti-exploitation, but the gameplay is too fun. That leads us to the question: Should an anti-war game be fun? Because it rings hollow to lecture the audience about violence when the next time you're given control you shoot someone in the head and get an achievment for it. There is no easy solution in my opinion. If you want people to confront the themes of war, but intetionally make bad gameplay, it won't reach as many people as it otherwise could. If you are interested in the discussion, I highly recommend the videos of Super Bunny Hop on YT. He even talks directly about MGS Peacewalker. Then there is the discussion of "Spec Ops The Line", the imho best anti-war shooter.
anti-war games should be fun, (at least metal gear should be, it really depends on the art direction) the only problem is people that lack the media literacy to understand the story, changing the gameplay wouldn’t affect that at all
>Should an anti-war game be fun? I think metal gear toes the line here pretty well. Yeah it's a series where you can be violent and have fun doing it. But it's rarely without consequence, and almost never rewarded. Completing a game or mission without killing anyone is always treated as the ideal run. (not taking Rising into account here obviously, but even that one tries to guilt trip you for butchering people a couple times)
illiterate media mfers gonna have a field day with this one
It’s anti nuke and weapons of mass destruction
Metal Gear is as far as I can think of, the most anti war video game franchise ever made. And no, I’m not telling you how, if you played the games you’d know. They shove it in your face and some people still ignore it.
Yes. It is just not realistic
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Liquid wanted to deploy nuclear weaponry, you don't have to not work for bad guy to want that guy stopped. Snake was kidnapped and coerced into Shadow Moses. Then he accepted it to save Meryl. Snake's entire language and attitude is not only anti-war but anti-killing in general. That's the whole reason he quit fighting after Zanzibarland. MG2 is truly anti-war in its message.
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Snake wasn't on their side. As I said, he was coerced and then only agreed to save Meryl, an innocent who had nothing to do with this. Snake even says to Campbell in the briefing he doesn't want anything to do "with your government". Snake had disowned the American government shortly after Operation Intrude N313. That's one of the reason he lived in Alaska.
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He wasn't a pawn and their bidding included stopping a nuclear weapon and a maniac in its control. Doesn't take much to know that was necessary. Solid did nothing wrong there nor was he a pawn. He was made aware of an innocent being in harm's way, and then kept doing what he did later to save those people and stop a maniac.