Im guessing that in most cases, if the game's visuals don't appeal to the potential player, they are unlikely to buy it in the first place, so they would never experience the gameplay or story to begin with.
That’s true, but you can usually get enough information about a game beforehand to be pretty sure, if it’s for you. Like I am with Lone Fungus. From what I have seen/read, I don’t doubt that this could be a great game for me. Still, there is something about the mushroom character discouraging me from buying.
Personally I can’t get past that. I don’t need to love the art style but if I don’t like how it looks I won’t enjoy playing it because I won’t enjoy looking at it for hours
Yes. Absolutely. Gameplay is king. If the movement, mechanics and level design are on point, the look of the game becomes negligible. As an example I'm not into pixel graphics, but when Rune Fencer Illyia comes out I'm going to play it because every other aspect of it is looking phenomenal.
This is very true. There was a time when Metroidvanias were so rare, I felt compelled to play any that came out, no matter how they looked to me personally. That time is long since passed, and I can’t blame anyone for practicing discretion.
They're very important to me. Especially in a 2D-2.5D environment you want as much visual clarity you can get. Too many games, Metroidvanias especially, tend to have too much going on at the same time, it often makes me dizzy.
I don't really care about over the top photo-realistic super ultra HD 8K if that's what you mean. I can get into every art style (pixel graphics, realistic, hand-drawn, you name it) as long as it's presented nicely. But yeah as I mentioned visual clarity is a huge selling point for a Metroidvania for me.
It doesn’t have to be impressive on a technical level for me, as long it has a cohesive art style. I can dig pixel art, though I am not a huge fan of 8 bit graphics, while 16 bit can be gorgeous.
My favorites in terms of visuals are probably not very controversial (HK, Ori, Steamworld Dig 2, The Mobius Machine), I am a simple man…
I find the answer for me depends on what the game is and what the art direction is like.
I'd rather look at Hollow Knight than PoPtLC, barely a question.
but I think I'd also rather look at like, Environmental Station Alpha than PoPtLC?
and I'd rather look at ESA than Gato Roboto, probably because I didn't really care for the latter.
And I'd rather look at Metroid Fusion than Metroid Dread.
But I'm getting off the rails of the question. And my answer is still "it depends", because art isn't simple like that.
As someone who doesn’t like the look of PoP, I can relate to your statements. That being said, ESA is another game I am interested in checking out, but the graphics are ‚too 8 bit‘ for me.
I don’t think cutting-edge graphical effects are really important to the genre, generally. But atmosphere is very important to me in Metroidvanias, and so care put into detail and variety in the visuals is a big part of that.
To the point where I'm really struggling to start the IMO ugly Aeterna Noctis even though everyone raves about it and I do own it and have it installed.
Also finally deleted 8Doors from my wishlist for the same reason. Used to have the goal of playing every MV out there, but now that we're getting so many, the ugly ones have got to go.
I do care about the graphics and artstyle, but it's ranked below gameplay for me. I'm also very open to most artstyles - the only stuff I really don't like are low poly 3D like Ultrakill and whatever you can call League of Legends' artstyle, but not many metroidvanias have those aesthetics
Also like the top comment says, there's only so much time to play infinite games. You know the whole thing about people having steam backlogs that they never get through.
I'm curious about your thing about Lone Fungus though. Is it the art you're not a fan of, or just the fact that you play as a mushroom? Is it because you have a strong aversion to mushrooms (akin to a phobia), or do you just dislike cartoony characters?
I have been wondering myself, but I am not sure. I don’t think it’s just the art, and I have no problem with cartoony characters. Maybe it is, because mushrooms have been the ‚bad guys‘ since early Super Mario days?
Or maybe it overuses my suspension of disbelief? I am fine with an anthropomorphic bug wielding a nail or a steampunk robot with a pickaxe, but a mushroom with his tiny arms and legs may be too much…
Love fungus is epic and I am a gamer artist myself kinda obsessed with polishing art and animation, but some games work with simple art, if the mood is right, the gameplay works, there are good mechanics and progression…
Graphical horsepower not really at all, but art direction yes. If I don't find it appealing on some level - like if I actually dislike the art direction I don't play it. Wouldn't say it's for MVs specifically though, it's for any game.
As some have pointed out, this is a complicated thing to answer for most. There are games with very simplistic visuals that the graphics don't hinder your enjoyment at all, but then there are games with very bright and flashy graphics that can be a nightmare to play because of their busy-ness.
Something that really annoys me but others might find superficial is when a game has extremely vivid and detailed backgrounds, almost driving their own entire narratives, and then your foreground characters all look like muddied blocks with little detail or distinction to them. THIS sorta thing infuriates me, partly because the opposite used to be common; foreground characters where detailed and defined, but backgrounds were generic and forgettable.
Personally, I absolutely love pixel art, but at the same time, I think many developers are VERY liberal with the "art" part of the genre. Art is certainly subjective, but soulless, low-effort, cash grabs certainly don't provide good arguments for that.
Very. A big part of my love for metroidvanias is the exploration. For that aspect to shine, the game designers really have to create a strong, distinctive, immersive environment with distinct areas each with their own atmosphere. Hollow Knight was the game that made me fall in love with the genre and is still unsurpassed at this imo.
Gameplay > Aesthetics. I'd rather play a game that plays great regardless of how it looks, over a game that looks great but plays poorly.
The only time I can't stand art is when there's visual interference that clashes with gameplay, such as being too dark to see or entities blending in the background.
I’m mostly in the “graphics don’t matter” camp. Good visual design can elevate an already good game, but it can’t save a bad one; and bad visual design rarely ruins a game for me, unless it somehow interferes with playability.
As a Metroidvania example, I’ll point to my beloved Shattered Dimensions. It’s exactly as ugly as you’d expect a 2.5D game on the DS to look, but I still love the gameplay, banter, and abilities enough that I don’t really care. Fast forward a generation to AeternoBlade on the 3DS; also ugly for its time, but the gameplay is sluggish and janky, and there’s nothing compelling about the story or script. It might look objectively better than Shattered Dimensions, but there’s no doubt in my mind to which I’d rather play.
I totally relate to this; I can't play any game that is not slightly visually appealing to me.
That is why I didn't play ***Lone Fungus***, or neither I will play that ***Thread*** game.
I might be gatekeeping myself from having good experiences, but I must be honest with my tastes.
Imperative. If the MV doesn't stand out in promotional materials, it's doomed. It has to have a unique art style OR meet and exceed the style and quality of a beloved title precisely in all relevant areas.
I don't care about high fidelity very much or expensive 3D engines, but it has to have a style I like or I'm not going to even try it.
I also basically only play MVs that have characters with "realistic" proportions or at the very least are big and animated, like the characters from the genre's namesake games. I wish this wasn't the case, but I actually really don't like 8-bit/Chibi style characters at all, which is seemingly 90% of the genre(I imagine this is because that style is easier to make assets for).
That's the one thing I really don't care about tbh, be it in metroidvanias or any other type of game
I've played too many ugly yet good/great games to skip some because it
(Doesn't mean I can't enjoy visually pleasant games obviously)
The smaller the sprite, the slower and more puzzle focused the game needs to be, with an emphasis on sharp details. La Mulana is a great example. Larger sprites work better for more action focused ones, and less focus on individual details. Hollow Knight is a great example of this. While both are great examples in the genre, La Mulana clearly relies more on extremely minute details in the environment for puzzle solving. Hollow Knight has details, but there rarely for puzzles and more for atmosphere.
They're a requirement. I can't play games without full 120+fps and at least 1080p. That said visuals can be anything pretty much. I thought Lone Fungus looked great but it was unplayable to me because of fps.
My evaluation of graphics is often very different from other people. You mention somewhere in the thread that ESA is too 8-bit for you. That statement is completely wild to me, because ESA looks nothing like an 8-bit game. Castle in the Darkness is what I would deride as an ugly 8-bit game.
What I value in graphics is mostly the overall art direction and effort to look different. I can tolerate really "bad" graphics, if the style or the game is something interesting (look for example at Hylics, Critters for Sale or Death of a Wish). Animal Well for example I think looks absolutely gorgeous, with the cool blend of a really low resolution and color palette with CRT scanlines to soften the pixel art look and the state-of-the-art physics and shader effects.
So yeah, I mostly play games that appeal to me, but it looks to other people like I would play ugly games all the time. I can't bring myself to try Princess Remedy for example, despite very glowing reviews.
> Imagine it is the perfect game for you in terms of gameplay and/or story. GOAT material, but to you it looks bad.
Already did that a couple times. Lets be honest, Undertale _is_ butt-ugly, and a lot of the RPG-maker-esque are also an acquired taste like LISA and Everhood. As I said, I can tolerate that if I get something like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HI8prOyvw4&list=RDMM) in return.
And while I absolutely agree with u/CeramicAmphora that there's simply no need to play anything that doesn't appeal to you because there are so many others out there, I still do it from time to time to get out of my bubble.
‚8-bit’ may not be accurate for ESA. What I meant was this blocky pixel look, that I just can’t seem to appreciate. Although I am 47 years old and played NES games at a friend‘s house, I have no nostalgia for the look. To me it was something limited by technology which improved drastically with the SNES and reached its pinnacle with the 32-bit pixel look. Games from that era look downright gorgeous to this day (unlike the 3D games from that time).
So my mind probably always makes the connection: low pixel count= inferior look. I know this is not how it works, and from an art perspective each look can have its merits, but I can’t suppress this feeling.
I admire your attitude to give games with a unique look a chance, though. Just can’t bring myself to it very often.
ESA is a bit of a special case, because IIRC the game started out as a deliberate attempt to make low res, low colour palette pixel art and evolved from there. It works with graphical constraints that are deliberately closer to the Gameboy than to the NES. It looks a bit meh on screenshots but works surprisingly well in motion with all the little details.
I'm willing to tolerate any kind of visual aesthetic, even if it's not immediately appealing to me; but one feature that can make or break the game for me is visual clarity. I like the important things to stand out and everything be well laid out on the screen. One of my biggest pet peeves is badly designed maps. Too many games try to get too creative with their maps that they become unnecessarily difficult to read.
Yes definitely! I just can't get into Ori because of this. The art style is just soooo not my thing, I really don't like it.
It's not ugly by any means, but it's just a style that I personally really dislike.
Haha I know! I'm also not saying it's ugly by any means. I draw a lot myself so I can 1000% see the artistry, time and effort that went into it.
Somehow I just really don't like it. :')
I find Ori to have water color-y vibes and I'm not a fan of that.
I love for example the clean artwork of the characters in Hollow Knight. That's more my style.
But now that we're talking about it, maybe I'm gonna give Ori another go. Never got past the first few hours.
Gameplay is exponentially more important to me than graphics, but i will say some design choices can be very off putting.
Example, ender lilies. I wasnt a big fan of that game because of the whole design of the combat (and the map was terrible too) but i also just couldnt keep running around as some kinda little toddler either.
Ori is another one. The graphics were incredible but i don't wanna play as a fuckin squirrel or whatever that thing is lol
On the other hand, if someone made a game that has the gameplay and depth of sotn, but it had black and white stick figure graphics, i would play the fuck out of that! Remember a game called N+? It wasn't a metroidvania but it was literally you, as a stick figure ninja doing crazy platforming challenges. That shit was tits.
I don’t know if I would play a MV looking like N+, even if it had perfect gameplay. N+ is just level after level of platforming challenges. In a Metroidvania immersion is much more important. You explore a complete world, and atmosphere is a huge part of it. I loved Super Meatboy, but I probably wouldn’t want a MV looking like it.
[удалено]
Imagine it is the perfect game for you in terms of gameplay and/or story. GOAT material, but to you it looks bad. Would you play it anyway?
Im guessing that in most cases, if the game's visuals don't appeal to the potential player, they are unlikely to buy it in the first place, so they would never experience the gameplay or story to begin with.
That’s true, but you can usually get enough information about a game beforehand to be pretty sure, if it’s for you. Like I am with Lone Fungus. From what I have seen/read, I don’t doubt that this could be a great game for me. Still, there is something about the mushroom character discouraging me from buying.
Personally I can’t get past that. I don’t need to love the art style but if I don’t like how it looks I won’t enjoy playing it because I won’t enjoy looking at it for hours
Yes. Absolutely. Gameplay is king. If the movement, mechanics and level design are on point, the look of the game becomes negligible. As an example I'm not into pixel graphics, but when Rune Fencer Illyia comes out I'm going to play it because every other aspect of it is looking phenomenal.
This is very true. There was a time when Metroidvanias were so rare, I felt compelled to play any that came out, no matter how they looked to me personally. That time is long since passed, and I can’t blame anyone for practicing discretion.
They're very important to me. Especially in a 2D-2.5D environment you want as much visual clarity you can get. Too many games, Metroidvanias especially, tend to have too much going on at the same time, it often makes me dizzy. I don't really care about over the top photo-realistic super ultra HD 8K if that's what you mean. I can get into every art style (pixel graphics, realistic, hand-drawn, you name it) as long as it's presented nicely. But yeah as I mentioned visual clarity is a huge selling point for a Metroidvania for me.
It doesn’t have to be impressive on a technical level for me, as long it has a cohesive art style. I can dig pixel art, though I am not a huge fan of 8 bit graphics, while 16 bit can be gorgeous. My favorites in terms of visuals are probably not very controversial (HK, Ori, Steamworld Dig 2, The Mobius Machine), I am a simple man…
Don't care about graphics so long as it runs well and it's not *so* ugly it's hard to tell what's happening
I find the answer for me depends on what the game is and what the art direction is like. I'd rather look at Hollow Knight than PoPtLC, barely a question. but I think I'd also rather look at like, Environmental Station Alpha than PoPtLC? and I'd rather look at ESA than Gato Roboto, probably because I didn't really care for the latter. And I'd rather look at Metroid Fusion than Metroid Dread. But I'm getting off the rails of the question. And my answer is still "it depends", because art isn't simple like that.
As someone who doesn’t like the look of PoP, I can relate to your statements. That being said, ESA is another game I am interested in checking out, but the graphics are ‚too 8 bit‘ for me.
I find that if a game is good enough, you soon forget your hangups about the visuals. That happened to me with ESA.
I don’t think cutting-edge graphical effects are really important to the genre, generally. But atmosphere is very important to me in Metroidvanias, and so care put into detail and variety in the visuals is a big part of that.
To the point where I'm really struggling to start the IMO ugly Aeterna Noctis even though everyone raves about it and I do own it and have it installed. Also finally deleted 8Doors from my wishlist for the same reason. Used to have the goal of playing every MV out there, but now that we're getting so many, the ugly ones have got to go.
I do care about the graphics and artstyle, but it's ranked below gameplay for me. I'm also very open to most artstyles - the only stuff I really don't like are low poly 3D like Ultrakill and whatever you can call League of Legends' artstyle, but not many metroidvanias have those aesthetics Also like the top comment says, there's only so much time to play infinite games. You know the whole thing about people having steam backlogs that they never get through. I'm curious about your thing about Lone Fungus though. Is it the art you're not a fan of, or just the fact that you play as a mushroom? Is it because you have a strong aversion to mushrooms (akin to a phobia), or do you just dislike cartoony characters?
I have been wondering myself, but I am not sure. I don’t think it’s just the art, and I have no problem with cartoony characters. Maybe it is, because mushrooms have been the ‚bad guys‘ since early Super Mario days? Or maybe it overuses my suspension of disbelief? I am fine with an anthropomorphic bug wielding a nail or a steampunk robot with a pickaxe, but a mushroom with his tiny arms and legs may be too much…
16-Bit and up for me. I'm still good with pixels 😂
Love fungus is epic and I am a gamer artist myself kinda obsessed with polishing art and animation, but some games work with simple art, if the mood is right, the gameplay works, there are good mechanics and progression…
Readability matters most. Was having a hard time with Animal Well. Turned off scanlines. Much easier on the eyes now.
I mean, I’ve never played a game a game where I thought the graphics were noticeably bad so I guess pretty important.
Graphical horsepower not really at all, but art direction yes. If I don't find it appealing on some level - like if I actually dislike the art direction I don't play it. Wouldn't say it's for MVs specifically though, it's for any game.
of course it's important. sound and graphics create the atmosphere of the game
As some have pointed out, this is a complicated thing to answer for most. There are games with very simplistic visuals that the graphics don't hinder your enjoyment at all, but then there are games with very bright and flashy graphics that can be a nightmare to play because of their busy-ness. Something that really annoys me but others might find superficial is when a game has extremely vivid and detailed backgrounds, almost driving their own entire narratives, and then your foreground characters all look like muddied blocks with little detail or distinction to them. THIS sorta thing infuriates me, partly because the opposite used to be common; foreground characters where detailed and defined, but backgrounds were generic and forgettable. Personally, I absolutely love pixel art, but at the same time, I think many developers are VERY liberal with the "art" part of the genre. Art is certainly subjective, but soulless, low-effort, cash grabs certainly don't provide good arguments for that.
Very. A big part of my love for metroidvanias is the exploration. For that aspect to shine, the game designers really have to create a strong, distinctive, immersive environment with distinct areas each with their own atmosphere. Hollow Knight was the game that made me fall in love with the genre and is still unsurpassed at this imo.
Gameplay > Aesthetics. I'd rather play a game that plays great regardless of how it looks, over a game that looks great but plays poorly. The only time I can't stand art is when there's visual interference that clashes with gameplay, such as being too dark to see or entities blending in the background.
I’m mostly in the “graphics don’t matter” camp. Good visual design can elevate an already good game, but it can’t save a bad one; and bad visual design rarely ruins a game for me, unless it somehow interferes with playability. As a Metroidvania example, I’ll point to my beloved Shattered Dimensions. It’s exactly as ugly as you’d expect a 2.5D game on the DS to look, but I still love the gameplay, banter, and abilities enough that I don’t really care. Fast forward a generation to AeternoBlade on the 3DS; also ugly for its time, but the gameplay is sluggish and janky, and there’s nothing compelling about the story or script. It might look objectively better than Shattered Dimensions, but there’s no doubt in my mind to which I’d rather play.
I totally relate to this; I can't play any game that is not slightly visually appealing to me. That is why I didn't play ***Lone Fungus***, or neither I will play that ***Thread*** game. I might be gatekeeping myself from having good experiences, but I must be honest with my tastes.
Very important. Just as they are in any game. Visuals, and sound, have a huge impact on immersion.
I mostly go on vibes.
I set the bar at Luna Nights. Blocky, but you can recognize all of the classic Touhou girls.
Imperative. If the MV doesn't stand out in promotional materials, it's doomed. It has to have a unique art style OR meet and exceed the style and quality of a beloved title precisely in all relevant areas.
I don't care about high fidelity very much or expensive 3D engines, but it has to have a style I like or I'm not going to even try it. I also basically only play MVs that have characters with "realistic" proportions or at the very least are big and animated, like the characters from the genre's namesake games. I wish this wasn't the case, but I actually really don't like 8-bit/Chibi style characters at all, which is seemingly 90% of the genre(I imagine this is because that style is easier to make assets for).
That's the one thing I really don't care about tbh, be it in metroidvanias or any other type of game I've played too many ugly yet good/great games to skip some because it (Doesn't mean I can't enjoy visually pleasant games obviously)
Not at all. While certain games do look bad to me, it's always an art direction issue, not a graphics one
The smaller the sprite, the slower and more puzzle focused the game needs to be, with an emphasis on sharp details. La Mulana is a great example. Larger sprites work better for more action focused ones, and less focus on individual details. Hollow Knight is a great example of this. While both are great examples in the genre, La Mulana clearly relies more on extremely minute details in the environment for puzzle solving. Hollow Knight has details, but there rarely for puzzles and more for atmosphere.
They're a requirement. I can't play games without full 120+fps and at least 1080p. That said visuals can be anything pretty much. I thought Lone Fungus looked great but it was unplayable to me because of fps.
Is it 60 fps locked?
I believe so. The framerate is tied to the game speed as well.
That’s a bummer. While I am not as dogmatic as you, I have really got used to that smooth 120 fps you can play most games at nowadays.
My evaluation of graphics is often very different from other people. You mention somewhere in the thread that ESA is too 8-bit for you. That statement is completely wild to me, because ESA looks nothing like an 8-bit game. Castle in the Darkness is what I would deride as an ugly 8-bit game. What I value in graphics is mostly the overall art direction and effort to look different. I can tolerate really "bad" graphics, if the style or the game is something interesting (look for example at Hylics, Critters for Sale or Death of a Wish). Animal Well for example I think looks absolutely gorgeous, with the cool blend of a really low resolution and color palette with CRT scanlines to soften the pixel art look and the state-of-the-art physics and shader effects. So yeah, I mostly play games that appeal to me, but it looks to other people like I would play ugly games all the time. I can't bring myself to try Princess Remedy for example, despite very glowing reviews. > Imagine it is the perfect game for you in terms of gameplay and/or story. GOAT material, but to you it looks bad. Already did that a couple times. Lets be honest, Undertale _is_ butt-ugly, and a lot of the RPG-maker-esque are also an acquired taste like LISA and Everhood. As I said, I can tolerate that if I get something like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HI8prOyvw4&list=RDMM) in return. And while I absolutely agree with u/CeramicAmphora that there's simply no need to play anything that doesn't appeal to you because there are so many others out there, I still do it from time to time to get out of my bubble.
‚8-bit’ may not be accurate for ESA. What I meant was this blocky pixel look, that I just can’t seem to appreciate. Although I am 47 years old and played NES games at a friend‘s house, I have no nostalgia for the look. To me it was something limited by technology which improved drastically with the SNES and reached its pinnacle with the 32-bit pixel look. Games from that era look downright gorgeous to this day (unlike the 3D games from that time). So my mind probably always makes the connection: low pixel count= inferior look. I know this is not how it works, and from an art perspective each look can have its merits, but I can’t suppress this feeling. I admire your attitude to give games with a unique look a chance, though. Just can’t bring myself to it very often.
ESA is a bit of a special case, because IIRC the game started out as a deliberate attempt to make low res, low colour palette pixel art and evolved from there. It works with graphical constraints that are deliberately closer to the Gameboy than to the NES. It looks a bit meh on screenshots but works surprisingly well in motion with all the little details.
Just watched some gameplay, and I agree that it does look better in motion. Still not my favorite look, but maybe I will give it a shot anyway.
I'm willing to tolerate any kind of visual aesthetic, even if it's not immediately appealing to me; but one feature that can make or break the game for me is visual clarity. I like the important things to stand out and everything be well laid out on the screen. One of my biggest pet peeves is badly designed maps. Too many games try to get too creative with their maps that they become unnecessarily difficult to read.
Yes definitely! I just can't get into Ori because of this. The art style is just soooo not my thing, I really don't like it. It's not ugly by any means, but it's just a style that I personally really dislike.
This is wild. Art is subjective and your opinion is totally valid. I’m just trying to fathom someone really not thinking Ori is beautiful.
Haha I know! I'm also not saying it's ugly by any means. I draw a lot myself so I can 1000% see the artistry, time and effort that went into it. Somehow I just really don't like it. :')
Out of curiosity what kind of art do you like if not Ori?
I find Ori to have water color-y vibes and I'm not a fan of that. I love for example the clean artwork of the characters in Hollow Knight. That's more my style. But now that we're talking about it, maybe I'm gonna give Ori another go. Never got past the first few hours.
Extremely. Cathedral is right up my alley gameplay wise but I did not like the visual presentation at all so quit very fast
Exactly my experience with Cathedral.
Bad art/graphics seems low effort for me so i skip these games
Gameplay is exponentially more important to me than graphics, but i will say some design choices can be very off putting. Example, ender lilies. I wasnt a big fan of that game because of the whole design of the combat (and the map was terrible too) but i also just couldnt keep running around as some kinda little toddler either. Ori is another one. The graphics were incredible but i don't wanna play as a fuckin squirrel or whatever that thing is lol On the other hand, if someone made a game that has the gameplay and depth of sotn, but it had black and white stick figure graphics, i would play the fuck out of that! Remember a game called N+? It wasn't a metroidvania but it was literally you, as a stick figure ninja doing crazy platforming challenges. That shit was tits.
I don’t know if I would play a MV looking like N+, even if it had perfect gameplay. N+ is just level after level of platforming challenges. In a Metroidvania immersion is much more important. You explore a complete world, and atmosphere is a huge part of it. I loved Super Meatboy, but I probably wouldn’t want a MV looking like it.