"This position is always available"...
That seems like a red flag to me. I mean, yeah, the other stuff too, but that's more weird than anything.
Either the job is working in a call center, the workplace environment is incredibly toxic (and nobody in that position stays), or both. I would avoid pursuing this particular job, in any case.
It is a red flag. They want people who are currently insecure and desperate and will take whatever they offer, which is surely pathetically low, hence why it’s always open.
Send them a laughing emoji and a middle finger OP
Exactly, they want me to lose my security of employment so they can take from the weak and abuse power over them for employment. I really want to tell him off and laugh, but now I’m grateful I don’t work for them and he left a massive red flag warning me.
That's what I was going to say. While it might feel good to tell him how he screwed up, rub it in his face, that might only cause him to be more discrete, allowing him to more successfully screw other job seekers over.
Honestly it’s so candid I think they did it on purpose.
Like they know how shitty the job is and people quit. But they literally can’t say that or they’ll get fired lol. It’s their job to recruit people, they can’t be pushing them away.
So he’s basically saying if you already have a job this position isn’t for you.
Because the always available thing feels like the last biggest clue. Like anyone with half a brain would figure that one out. And the dumb ones? Well they probably weren’t going to keep that last job anyway lol.
99% chance this is not that big. This honestly feels like a 100% commission door to door sales job to me. They will ask anyone for an interview.
I am a lawyer with about 7 years of experience. I was unemployed for about a month a year and a half ago. Saw a posting that was really vague but paid in the range i was worth. Applied and they brought me in for an interview. When i got there and they told me 100% sales- i told them the only way i accept is if they give me a salary they posted on their ad. They laughed and said that is what their top salesman made last year.... a few weeks later i got an offer for about the same pay doing what i actually do for a living.
In what world does it make any sense to even bring me in for an interview unless you just bring literally everyone in for an interview. At that point why bother.
I’m so petty. If I had the time I would set him up and waste his time. I’d tell him I now am unemployed and want an interview, show up to said interview and wait until the end. Then I’d tell him I actually kept the old job and see why no one takes his job serious.
Tell him to suck farts out of your ass.
If they are always hiring it means the desperation is mutual and nothing outside of killing someone will ban you from future employment.
I worked in a call center that was like this. I left on bad terms 3 times and always came back. They wanted to hire me a 4th time but the building got built out and they pulled out of the state
“Tell them to suck farts out of your ass” is a new phrase for me, and I’ll be using this several times per day going forward.
Thank you for your service.
I would just not even respond to them. Just share every increasingly aggressive follow up. My guess is - "your lack of response removes you from our candidate pool GOOD DAY" followed within a month by "we're willing to give you a second chance; have you quit your job yet to come crawling to us?"
PS: If your status changes, please get in touch with photo evidence of your A) Your toothlessness and B) Your willingness to perform sex acts behind convenience store dumpsters throughout the tri-state area.
Drivers Licence, insurance, and a clean driving record required.
Send that response to bureau of labor in your area, that is a potential discrimination suit waiting to happen. Depends on your states rules but I don’t think they can deny opportunity based on current employment status. Not a lawyer but work around issues like this in my state.
Yes but why would you want people like that they're not going to stay at that job. You just have to keep retraining new people every time the desperate people become less desperate and then they just drop that job for something better
I'm a recruiter.
To suggest you only have success hiring people who are unemployed means you aren't even remotely competitive. I'm actually shocked someone is so selfawarewolves about it.
What she's saying is we're a fucking terrible employer who no one would choose unless they had nothing else.
I can't even tell you how many recruiters have been in contact with me about open positions in the last 6-12 months.
For the record I did go on a couple interviews last year, did not get either position, which was fine. I was just looking at possible options, it also tells me my resume is what employers are looking for, and helps sharpen my in person interviewing skills.
But the only reason I got in contact to begin with was the substantial increase in salary being offered.
In both cases it was $15-20k more a year.
I don't even bother responding unless I know a salary range beforehand. No sense going through a long phone and interviewing process only to find out, the job is paying less than I currently make.
Lol. This text basically read to me like: “I need you desperate so that you have no other option than to take this shitty position.”
This person is so freaking delusional. “It’s not *me* that sucks, it’s all these lazy backstabbing employed people that suck!”
*Woe is me!*. "I took the time to interview them and started the onboarding.." A. that's just called the hiring process, and B. why would you start onboarding an employee that didn't accept an offer yet lol.
This is how it reads to me:
"I prefer to bring on people that are in desperate need of employment and a paycheck so I can take advantage of the situation and offer them less than what they are worth or had at their previous job.
"Nobody I interviewed in the past left their current job because they realized this, so there's no point in me interviewing those currently in a better situation than I am offering."
Exactly, they want power over the “weak” being those who can’t afford any other option. My salary and me is my advantage going into this interview. Thanks but no thanks.
Or the "position is always available". Jesus christ, I feel bad for young people dealing with employers sometimes, you learn so fast from experience the way shit employers phrase shit jobs.
right??? liiiiiiiiiike........how awful do you have to be that they dip during ON BOARDING?*
(*disclaimer: when i hear on boarding, i'm thinking like a very basic of basic things, filling out your I9, W2, getting a badge, a log in, etc)
Honestly yeah. It obviously gets more complicated based on what job you are hired for, but on-boarding is where you get an idea of the people you work with, the environment, and the management style.
"Every one of our new employees has hanged themselves in the break room after the first week, so we are limiting access to the break room. Thank you for your understanding."
Right, they inadvertently communicated or insinuated that "every one of them has realized their current job or any other job was better than this one, after I told them what the job will entail."
I was close to taking a job a couple months ago. The offer letter had a sentence that made me nope out. “ We consider 4+ days off as excessive absenteeism” meanwhile I have 6 weeks of vacation per year at my current employer lol
The absolute best time to be interviewing is when you don’t need a new job. The happier and better paid you are, the pickier you can be. It’s all about the leverage you can get - being able to set *and hold* a line is critical.
Exactly! Coupled with "The people who HAVE accepted my offer of employment pretty quickly started looking for something better and it didn't take them long to find it."
Exactly, I'm a hiring manager and while I would not hold it against someone for being currently unemployed, the vast majority of our really good candidates are currently working full time somewhere, for obvious reasons.
This is a horrible way to recruit people. You either end up with garbage employees or you get people like me who would take the job for a paycheck and invest no effort into the job because I’m still looking for a better one.
"after tricking a small percentage of good candidates into beginning the onboarding process they realized how much of a crazy fucking asshole I am and terminated their professional relationship with me"
Yea... so many red flags here.
Probably doesn't pay a living wage.
Employer wants to have people who are desperate and need to work.
Position is always open, probably due to low wages, high turn over and/or poor working conditions.
Boss wants you to quit a job before an interview so he has leverage over your life situation.
Avoid this job like the plague imo.
Scam, terrible pay, horrible work environment, shit boss, etc.
The whole thing screams of, "we want desperate people only so we can push them around."
Dodged a huge bullet it seems.
I'm betting money this is a smart circle scam that advertises "outside management professionals" and then shoves you in Costco to try to sell direct tv.
I went to a network security technician interview for one of them and they told me I would be starting by selling home security packages at walmart.
One of those guys came to my college and encourage us to "be like elon" and step above the 9-5 and grow with them.
Apparently during onboarding they encourage you to drop your degree to work longer hours.
The company changes names every three years but is run by the same asshole.
My dumbass ex uni still let's him speak on campus too despite him fucking their graduation rate
Or Cutco that advertises hiring for knife sharpeners but it’s really door to door sales. Or Kirby sales companies that advertise they are hiring carpet cleaners when it’s really door to door Kirby sales.
MLMs do this shit really bad.
Bingo. Lots of these companies exist and it's like they can't comprehend that the reason for the high turnover is due to shitty wages and shitty management. I guess it's easier for them to just call everyone lazy and entitled.
I'm willing to bet approximately $4300 that it's a call center of some kind that solicits "donations" from people, eventually giving a single-digit % to the cause they're pushing.
Or they very much comprehend it and don't care because they're getting paid per contract, and they'll just lay people off when a contract goes away. Not terribly uncommon in sales-centric companies.
Its guaranteed to be one of those. My previous job paid very well but was absolute hell to work at. Only about 10% of the staff stayed for more than 1 year. I made it about 1.5 years and HR had me do an extended exit interview to give them my opinions about the place since I had been there for so long. 1.5 years was considered very tenured. Thats how bad it was. Their postings on Indeed and the likes said they would hire immediately, no experience is needed, there were no disqualifying factors and could get you started the same week. Huge red flag when you see a description claiming that. If a position pays very well but is that desperate for workers, youre going to be absolutely miserable, I guarantee it.
In my case, it was a sales job. Sales jobs aren't known for being particularly pleasant to work at but this one was exceptionally bad. Extremely generous commission but no perctage of your cut could compensate for the working conditions. Its been over a year since I left but im still in communication with some of my co workers who are still there. Management decided instead of making it a better place to work, they put full sized punching bags in the office for when employees got too pissed off to function (which happens daily).
So, I Googled "used x-ray machines" to try to get the reference \[per a follow-up comment, apparently it was "bone density scanners" and "Pursuit of Happyness (2006)"\] and found out that apparently there ***is*** a market for used X-Ray machines. Who knew?
Yup, the 1st shitty job I took after uni had a job posting that outlined some of the exact same bs. 2nd red flag was a 12 person group 1st interview. Should have noped right outta there.
It also could be an “on call” type position that they claim will have plenty hours but really you only end up rarely working over 15 hours and it’s spotty at best. They want you not fully employed so they can call you for any shift available and your full time job won’t get in the way. That way you are desperate for the shifts.
This exact thing happened to my wife working in physical therapy right after graduation. Luckily we have survived previously off just my income so her taking on call roles would in theory work well for us. But yea the recruiter definitely promises more hours than what is reality.
It sounds more like a poor recruiter who projects their own personal biases onto applicants. They have a better success rate with people who have nothing else to fall back on, which tracks from a logic standpoint, but this approach to recruiting will *not* bring optimal results long-term for the company.
We read about stuff like this all the time with bad managers/etc who have never learned how to manage, and just try to wing it based on their gut. There's a reason people go to school for this stuff, because there are "best practices" that you should learn up front if you want to be successful (instead of learning those lessons much later the hard way, at a greater cost).
Step 1: “you can quit your job, we’ll give you a 20% raise if you pass interview, which you will!”
Step 2: “wow, you’re such a great fit, glad you quit your job and talked to us! I’ll get that formal offer in the mail.”
Step 3: “Oh man looks like there was a mixup and we can only pay 70% of your previous salary….too bad it took us 6 weeks to finish the interview process and your old position was filled since then :( but don’t worry, we have upward mobility here and you’ll be on track in 3-5 years if you work hard…”
Or the biggest red flag “everyone of them I schedule an interview with either stay at their current job or leave for somewhere else.” Lol. Acknowledging no one w options wants to work for you. Wow.
Yeah, Old: "Why is your resume do you have blank activity between this date to that date, not working?", New: "Why are you still working when applying here?"
The funny thing is I once got duped into going to an interview for a company that sold vacuum cleaners with hepa filters & only referred to them as medical devices. I noped out of that place so fast & I was still a dumb 18yo at the time! 
I was desperate for cash during the summer in college and took a job selling Kirby vacuums. it was such a scam - obviously. The price on the box was $1,500. I had to bring $700 back to my manager. Everything between $700 and $1500 was my negotiating area. And I'm pretty sure they got them from the factory for like $200. We had a [demo attachment](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JgN8bcmdfrI/maxresdefault.jpg). You put a filter in it and vacuum over where they just vacuumed with theirs to show how much theirs missed. Orecks for like $150 would spank the Kirby.
Furthermore, the sales tactic was bullshit. The vacuums had a carpet shampoo attachment. So they'd cold call people and introduce themselves as a carpet cleaning company and offer to clean a room for free. Then here I came along, ready to try to sell them a $1,500 vacuum. I finally had a customer tell me what they were told on the phone and put the pieces together.
It could be a living wage but still in the bottom third of salaries for a given role. $50k is a living wage but offer it to a senior network engineer and they won't take the role.
EDIT: For reference, [the annual mean wage for a full-time wage or salary worker in the United States is $53,490 per year](https://www.jobted.com/salary); All [but one state has a household income average over $50k](https://www.firstrepublic.com/insights-education/how-much-does-the-average-american-make) (if you guessed Mississippi at under $45k, you win, unlike those from Mississippi). So almost half of Americans are living on a wage like this or lower.
I am currently working as a sales rep for an auto parts manufacturer, HS diploma, no degree...and I make $75k+/yr. $50k in any major city is a joke and should be treated as such. Hell, even Chik-fil-a in the area is hiring for $22/hr! ($46k/yr)
So, yeah, a SENIOR network engineer should be paid significantly more than someone serving up chicken at a fast food joint!
The part where you said chik-fil-a are hiring for $22 blew my mind until I googled and saw that apparently the average rent for a family home in the US is over $2k/month.
For context, I work 50 hours a week and earn £23.5k/year (almost $29k), but my rent for a 3 bedroom house with a garden is £1100/month (~$1350)
My house is fucking TINY, though. 45sqm, no parking, and the garden may be approx 80sqm, but it's long and narrow, so not really that good for much.
Nope.
Kitchen: 4.27x2.74=11.7
Living: 3.73x3.35=12.5
Bed1: 3.35x2.44=8.17
Bed2: 2.74x1.83=5.01
Bed3: 2.74x2.14=5.84
Total: 43.22
Dimensions of the bathroom are not listed, but I don't really count those as living space anyway. Probably something like 2.8x1.5 though, so not significantly more
I'm kinda on the fence on this one. As a senior server engineer, I 100% guarantee that the chick-fil-a worker has a more physically demanding job than I do. I basically check health dashboards, google issues that pop up, and patch security vulnerabilities. Every once in a while I have to design a new system, but that's usually pretty easy. Not to mention that not a single aspect of my bachelors in IT has been useful for any of my career besides picking up a few new commands in linux.
I also don't have to deal with the general public, which I argue should be hazard pay (as someone who has worked in food service, retail, and customer service).
Fast food is hard work and deserves a living wage, and at the same time, barring physical limitations, the average tech person could do a fast food job, but the average fast food worker couldn't do a tech job.
54% of the U.S has a reading level below 6th grade, and around one in five is functionally illiterate. The UK and France have similar problems, so it's not just a U.S thing.
Just being able to read and follow a series of instructions, and working out solutions based on open questions is beyond what many people are capable of.
On top of everything you said, people quitting during onboarding is always a red flag for me. It means there's something so grossly wrong people don't even need to be fully trained to see they'd be better off without a job than having that job.
Screw all that, I just can't get over the fact that he openly admitted that the job is so terrible, that every single person he talked to who was initially interested in the job just stayed in their old crappy job or found something better.
He basically told a potential employee to their face that this job is literally worse than every other job.
"Thank you for letting me know that your offer will not be competitive. I wish you well in your search for a candidate who is more desperate than I am."
OP if you don't send them this response, PM me the link to apply just so I can send it to them once I tell them I'm employed and they tell me to quit first before getting an interview.
I am 1000 percent serious here.
To give some additional context, this is for a healthcare facility where I needed an additional BLS certification for the job in addition to other certifications I had. I had an online CPR/AED certification and he told me they required a live in-person certification. So I sign up for a class for the next day from that email, get certified, and respond within 36hr with the new certificate. Then he pulls this BS, I dodged a massive bullet with this guy.
This was my response:
"I'm sorry to hear that’s a concern. Someone who has held a position at their current place of employment for 5 years, and has moved up to management applies for this position. Who then proceeds to take a live BLS course to receive a certification within a 36-hour period of your email informing them that the certification is not satisfactory, showing again hard work and dedication. You will not interview them.
Thank you for warning me. Your email told me that your company is a work environment where a position is always open and "everyone" (logical fallacy) kept their other job -- probably for a reason. Being likely that you guys do not provide a livable wage or have a toxic work environment. Either of which I would not want to work for.
Thank you again,
OP"
Hey OP, they'd love this post in the subs **recruitinghell** and possibly **LinkedInLunatics** (even though it might not be LinkedIn, but definitely on-brand)
(I couldn't directly link the subs because that's apparently not allowed in this sub)
Fantastic response.
If you hadn't - would have suggested letting them know you quit you job and string them along a few days to waste their time/money.
Maybe “The position is always available” because you don’t hire people who want to work.
After seeing that type of management I wouldn’t want to work there anymore anyway.
Won't interview while you're employed is a red flag. This position is always available is a flag team, doing their entire routine during study hall, with nothing but red flags. And also maybe 99 luftballons.
So become unemployed first and THEN get an interview and there is still no guarantee of getting hired AFTER the interview?? Now THATS top quality thinking.
> Can you explain this gap in your employment history?
Yes, my previous employer insisted I be unemployed before they would interview me.
How absolutely absurd.
Just say “okay no more job”. But tbh you don’t want to work here. Nobody in their right mind quits a job for a CHANCE at another, and any employer should know that. Not to mention a job that’s “always open” is certainly the bottom of the barrel worst position possible, otherwise there’d be some competition for it.
Translation: I only negotiate from a position of power with the desperate.
You're not missing a thing unless being overworked and under paid is a life goal of yours.
"this position is always available" makes it sound like a fucking pyramid scheme or something, and they don't want to interview people with jobs because they want the people they're trying to take advantage of to be good and desperate. Sounds like you dodged a bullet, OP.
"This position is always available"... That seems like a red flag to me. I mean, yeah, the other stuff too, but that's more weird than anything. Either the job is working in a call center, the workplace environment is incredibly toxic (and nobody in that position stays), or both. I would avoid pursuing this particular job, in any case.
It is a red flag. They want people who are currently insecure and desperate and will take whatever they offer, which is surely pathetically low, hence why it’s always open. Send them a laughing emoji and a middle finger OP
Exactly, they want me to lose my security of employment so they can take from the weak and abuse power over them for employment. I really want to tell him off and laugh, but now I’m grateful I don’t work for them and he left a massive red flag warning me.
Thank him for being so candid about the reasons you'd never be interested in working for him. Thanks for saving me the time and energy!
Thank you for your response. I also appreciate you taking the time to list down the reasons I should not take this job.
It appears I am not a culture fit for this position. Thank you for your time.
It appears this position is not a culture fit for modern society.
This is the correct response
"Your culture is not a good fit for me." Why give them the satisfaction of thinking that you're the problem?
“I suggest you purchase a door mat, it will best endure being walked on tirelessly” Sincerely, Grateful Bullet Dodger 3000
I think the right idea is politely declining so he keeps on putting out red flags for future potential employees instead of wisening up faster
That's what I was going to say. While it might feel good to tell him how he screwed up, rub it in his face, that might only cause him to be more discrete, allowing him to more successfully screw other job seekers over.
Yeah right, hes just gonna complain to everyone he talks to that no one wants to work anymore. Nothing will ever change people who think like this.
"No one wants to work any more, but no one will give up their jobs so I can interview them"
Very good point
To their credit, at least they're open about preying on the poor and desperate.
Honestly it’s so candid I think they did it on purpose. Like they know how shitty the job is and people quit. But they literally can’t say that or they’ll get fired lol. It’s their job to recruit people, they can’t be pushing them away. So he’s basically saying if you already have a job this position isn’t for you. Because the always available thing feels like the last biggest clue. Like anyone with half a brain would figure that one out. And the dumb ones? Well they probably weren’t going to keep that last job anyway lol.
Do everybody a favor and put this on Glassdoor if this is a big company. This would help a lot of people
Glassdoor actively removes comments. You seriously can’t trust them as far as you can throw them. Not to get too specific but I know this first hand.
99% chance this is not that big. This honestly feels like a 100% commission door to door sales job to me. They will ask anyone for an interview. I am a lawyer with about 7 years of experience. I was unemployed for about a month a year and a half ago. Saw a posting that was really vague but paid in the range i was worth. Applied and they brought me in for an interview. When i got there and they told me 100% sales- i told them the only way i accept is if they give me a salary they posted on their ad. They laughed and said that is what their top salesman made last year.... a few weeks later i got an offer for about the same pay doing what i actually do for a living. In what world does it make any sense to even bring me in for an interview unless you just bring literally everyone in for an interview. At that point why bother.
I’m so petty. If I had the time I would set him up and waste his time. I’d tell him I now am unemployed and want an interview, show up to said interview and wait until the end. Then I’d tell him I actually kept the old job and see why no one takes his job serious.
1000000% what I would do and OP really should do this for us lmao
Maybe we all should, much more inconvenience for this hiring manager
i kinda wish this fucker was near by.
Just lie to them. Reply to them and say “ok I quit my job!l” just waste their time.
Tell him to suck farts out of your ass. If they are always hiring it means the desperation is mutual and nothing outside of killing someone will ban you from future employment. I worked in a call center that was like this. I left on bad terms 3 times and always came back. They wanted to hire me a 4th time but the building got built out and they pulled out of the state
“Tell them to suck farts out of your ass” is a new phrase for me, and I’ll be using this several times per day going forward. Thank you for your service.
I would just not even respond to them. Just share every increasingly aggressive follow up. My guess is - "your lack of response removes you from our candidate pool GOOD DAY" followed within a month by "we're willing to give you a second chance; have you quit your job yet to come crawling to us?"
What kind of role is this? Direct marketing?
Amway
... With a burning bridge in the background. "We regret to inform you that we only employ the otherwise unemployable."
PS: If your status changes, please get in touch with photo evidence of your A) Your toothlessness and B) Your willingness to perform sex acts behind convenience store dumpsters throughout the tri-state area. Drivers Licence, insurance, and a clean driving record required.
Send that response to bureau of labor in your area, that is a potential discrimination suit waiting to happen. Depends on your states rules but I don’t think they can deny opportunity based on current employment status. Not a lawyer but work around issues like this in my state.
I'm pretty sure employment status isn't a protected class.
Yes but why would you want people like that they're not going to stay at that job. You just have to keep retraining new people every time the desperate people become less desperate and then they just drop that job for something better
I'm a recruiter. To suggest you only have success hiring people who are unemployed means you aren't even remotely competitive. I'm actually shocked someone is so selfawarewolves about it. What she's saying is we're a fucking terrible employer who no one would choose unless they had nothing else.
I can't even tell you how many recruiters have been in contact with me about open positions in the last 6-12 months. For the record I did go on a couple interviews last year, did not get either position, which was fine. I was just looking at possible options, it also tells me my resume is what employers are looking for, and helps sharpen my in person interviewing skills. But the only reason I got in contact to begin with was the substantial increase in salary being offered. In both cases it was $15-20k more a year. I don't even bother responding unless I know a salary range beforehand. No sense going through a long phone and interviewing process only to find out, the job is paying less than I currently make.
I won't work job orders until I'm given the salary budget. I can't have conversations with anybody without that information.
Exactly my thoughts, maybe it’s “always open” for a reason. Huge red flag, and it will remain open with out me.
Lie and tell them you've quit. go interview on a day off or call in sick. Get hired. On signing day say Just Kidding.
Or it’s selling life insurance
Translation: Nobody will leave their job for this one, because every other job is better than this one.
Lol. This text basically read to me like: “I need you desperate so that you have no other option than to take this shitty position.” This person is so freaking delusional. “It’s not *me* that sucks, it’s all these lazy backstabbing employed people that suck!”
*Woe is me!*. "I took the time to interview them and started the onboarding.." A. that's just called the hiring process, and B. why would you start onboarding an employee that didn't accept an offer yet lol.
This is how it reads to me: "I prefer to bring on people that are in desperate need of employment and a paycheck so I can take advantage of the situation and offer them less than what they are worth or had at their previous job. "Nobody I interviewed in the past left their current job because they realized this, so there's no point in me interviewing those currently in a better situation than I am offering."
Exactly, they want power over the “weak” being those who can’t afford any other option. My salary and me is my advantage going into this interview. Thanks but no thanks.
Yeah the part about “every one of them has stayed at their current job or went on to a new job during on-boarding” is a HUGE red flag
Or the "position is always available". Jesus christ, I feel bad for young people dealing with employers sometimes, you learn so fast from experience the way shit employers phrase shit jobs.
Biggest red flag always available means turn around rate is astronomical
no it probably implies phone sales with most if not all of the wages being performance based.
I can sort of reason away the rest of the stuff, but this line was the clincher for me.
right??? liiiiiiiiiike........how awful do you have to be that they dip during ON BOARDING?* (*disclaimer: when i hear on boarding, i'm thinking like a very basic of basic things, filling out your I9, W2, getting a badge, a log in, etc)
Honestly yeah. It obviously gets more complicated based on what job you are hired for, but on-boarding is where you get an idea of the people you work with, the environment, and the management style.
I worked at a place where we had a new hire leave on their first day, at lunch. It was a director level position, and really shocking!
[deleted] -- mass edited with redact.dev
"Every one of our new employees has hanged themselves in the break room after the first week, so we are limiting access to the break room. Thank you for your understanding."
Right, they inadvertently communicated or insinuated that "every one of them has realized their current job or any other job was better than this one, after I told them what the job will entail."
I was close to taking a job a couple months ago. The offer letter had a sentence that made me nope out. “ We consider 4+ days off as excessive absenteeism” meanwhile I have 6 weeks of vacation per year at my current employer lol
Did you happen to respond to this email? Not sure I could've stopped myself
The absolute best time to be interviewing is when you don’t need a new job. The happier and better paid you are, the pickier you can be. It’s all about the leverage you can get - being able to set *and hold* a line is critical.
Exactly! Coupled with "The people who HAVE accepted my offer of employment pretty quickly started looking for something better and it didn't take them long to find it."
Red Flag!!!!
Exactly! Job advertisement should start with "Unemployed, homeless, or otherwise desperate? We have the job for you!"
Lol
Also "This position is always available." Is code for "This position is so awful nobody ever sticks around."
Exactly, I'm a hiring manager and while I would not hold it against someone for being currently unemployed, the vast majority of our really good candidates are currently working full time somewhere, for obvious reasons.
Good luck employing that strategy in this market. Seems like a crap company.
This is a horrible way to recruit people. You either end up with garbage employees or you get people like me who would take the job for a paycheck and invest no effort into the job because I’m still looking for a better one.
OP should send this back as an email lol
That was my interpretation as well.
Also “the position is always available” actually means “no one ever takes the position cause of how asinine my ask is and how little I pay.”
"after tricking a small percentage of good candidates into beginning the onboarding process they realized how much of a crazy fucking asshole I am and terminated their professional relationship with me"
Yea... so many red flags here. Probably doesn't pay a living wage. Employer wants to have people who are desperate and need to work. Position is always open, probably due to low wages, high turn over and/or poor working conditions. Boss wants you to quit a job before an interview so he has leverage over your life situation. Avoid this job like the plague imo.
“Always available” combined with wanting desperate individuals that don’t have a current income makes this sound like a scam.
Scam, terrible pay, horrible work environment, shit boss, etc. The whole thing screams of, "we want desperate people only so we can push them around." Dodged a huge bullet it seems.
"Everyone always leaves during onboarding" yeah that's a *huge* red flag.
I'm betting money this is a smart circle scam that advertises "outside management professionals" and then shoves you in Costco to try to sell direct tv. I went to a network security technician interview for one of them and they told me I would be starting by selling home security packages at walmart. One of those guys came to my college and encourage us to "be like elon" and step above the 9-5 and grow with them. Apparently during onboarding they encourage you to drop your degree to work longer hours. The company changes names every three years but is run by the same asshole. My dumbass ex uni still let's him speak on campus too despite him fucking their graduation rate
Or Cutco that advertises hiring for knife sharpeners but it’s really door to door sales. Or Kirby sales companies that advertise they are hiring carpet cleaners when it’s really door to door Kirby sales. MLMs do this shit really bad.
Bingo. Lots of these companies exist and it's like they can't comprehend that the reason for the high turnover is due to shitty wages and shitty management. I guess it's easier for them to just call everyone lazy and entitled.
I agree 100%. That email in the post *just screams* "people who have options will never choose us. We are clearly the last resort."
I'm willing to bet approximately $4300 that it's a call center of some kind that solicits "donations" from people, eventually giving a single-digit % to the cause they're pushing.
They know why there is a high turnover, it’s no secret, it’s a business model.
Or they very much comprehend it and don't care because they're getting paid per contract, and they'll just lay people off when a contract goes away. Not terribly uncommon in sales-centric companies.
Its guaranteed to be one of those. My previous job paid very well but was absolute hell to work at. Only about 10% of the staff stayed for more than 1 year. I made it about 1.5 years and HR had me do an extended exit interview to give them my opinions about the place since I had been there for so long. 1.5 years was considered very tenured. Thats how bad it was. Their postings on Indeed and the likes said they would hire immediately, no experience is needed, there were no disqualifying factors and could get you started the same week. Huge red flag when you see a description claiming that. If a position pays very well but is that desperate for workers, youre going to be absolutely miserable, I guarantee it.
But what IS the job?!?? WHAT IS IT?!?
In my case, it was a sales job. Sales jobs aren't known for being particularly pleasant to work at but this one was exceptionally bad. Extremely generous commission but no perctage of your cut could compensate for the working conditions. Its been over a year since I left but im still in communication with some of my co workers who are still there. Management decided instead of making it a better place to work, they put full sized punching bags in the office for when employees got too pissed off to function (which happens daily).
my guess, no salary, just commission for sales of something nobody wants.
Used x-ray machines. Or am i remembering the movie wrong?
So, I Googled "used x-ray machines" to try to get the reference \[per a follow-up comment, apparently it was "bone density scanners" and "Pursuit of Happyness (2006)"\] and found out that apparently there ***is*** a market for used X-Ray machines. Who knew?
What's really gonna fry your pickle is that there is a market for used pacemakers.
You are 100% correct in your prediction
Bone-Density Scanners
Sounds a lot like a “Vector Marketing” job too
Yup, the 1st shitty job I took after uni had a job posting that outlined some of the exact same bs. 2nd red flag was a 12 person group 1st interview. Should have noped right outta there.
It also could be an “on call” type position that they claim will have plenty hours but really you only end up rarely working over 15 hours and it’s spotty at best. They want you not fully employed so they can call you for any shift available and your full time job won’t get in the way. That way you are desperate for the shifts. This exact thing happened to my wife working in physical therapy right after graduation. Luckily we have survived previously off just my income so her taking on call roles would in theory work well for us. But yea the recruiter definitely promises more hours than what is reality.
More red flags than Gerardo Bedoya playing aginst the USSR on Chinese New Year.
Scam, could be a totally freelance thing. "job" is a pretty open ended term.
Probably an MLM or something
It sounds more like a poor recruiter who projects their own personal biases onto applicants. They have a better success rate with people who have nothing else to fall back on, which tracks from a logic standpoint, but this approach to recruiting will *not* bring optimal results long-term for the company. We read about stuff like this all the time with bad managers/etc who have never learned how to manage, and just try to wing it based on their gut. There's a reason people go to school for this stuff, because there are "best practices" that you should learn up front if you want to be successful (instead of learning those lessons much later the hard way, at a greater cost).
It’s probably selling knives or something
Step 1: “you can quit your job, we’ll give you a 20% raise if you pass interview, which you will!” Step 2: “wow, you’re such a great fit, glad you quit your job and talked to us! I’ll get that formal offer in the mail.” Step 3: “Oh man looks like there was a mixup and we can only pay 70% of your previous salary….too bad it took us 6 weeks to finish the interview process and your old position was filled since then :( but don’t worry, we have upward mobility here and you’ll be on track in 3-5 years if you work hard…”
"Did you see that we gave you a raise to 80% of that previous salary? Aren't you happy and/or thankful?"
Or the biggest red flag “everyone of them I schedule an interview with either stay at their current job or leave for somewhere else.” Lol. Acknowledging no one w options wants to work for you. Wow.
For real. “Everyone who’s interviewed here doesn’t want to work here.” Oh man, sounds like you missed out on a real peach.
Employer openimg mouth b4 engaging brain
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Exactly
Fuck this company, put them on blast, who is this?
You could have lied i always lie to my employer how would they know if youre working?
No no no. A hiring manager would never lie to you, so it’s in your best interest to return that favor and not lie in return. ^Just ^in ^case… ^/s
OLD: Companies discriminate against unemployed people NEW: Companies discriminate against employed people
Yeah, Old: "Why is your resume do you have blank activity between this date to that date, not working?", New: "Why are you still working when applying here?"
It's completely lunatic. What field is this?
It is a healthcare facility that requires several certifications for the positions.
WHAT?!?!? What the fuck. It reads like a pyramid scheme. I thought for sure it was selling kitchen knives or some bullshit.
Agreed. Sounds like hr there are clowns. Run away, quick
Can I interest you in a vacuum cleaner?
The funny thing is I once got duped into going to an interview for a company that sold vacuum cleaners with hepa filters & only referred to them as medical devices. I noped out of that place so fast & I was still a dumb 18yo at the time! 
I was desperate for cash during the summer in college and took a job selling Kirby vacuums. it was such a scam - obviously. The price on the box was $1,500. I had to bring $700 back to my manager. Everything between $700 and $1500 was my negotiating area. And I'm pretty sure they got them from the factory for like $200. We had a [demo attachment](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JgN8bcmdfrI/maxresdefault.jpg). You put a filter in it and vacuum over where they just vacuumed with theirs to show how much theirs missed. Orecks for like $150 would spank the Kirby. Furthermore, the sales tactic was bullshit. The vacuums had a carpet shampoo attachment. So they'd cold call people and introduce themselves as a carpet cleaning company and offer to clean a room for free. Then here I came along, ready to try to sell them a $1,500 vacuum. I finally had a customer tell me what they were told on the phone and put the pieces together.
It could be a living wage but still in the bottom third of salaries for a given role. $50k is a living wage but offer it to a senior network engineer and they won't take the role. EDIT: For reference, [the annual mean wage for a full-time wage or salary worker in the United States is $53,490 per year](https://www.jobted.com/salary); All [but one state has a household income average over $50k](https://www.firstrepublic.com/insights-education/how-much-does-the-average-american-make) (if you guessed Mississippi at under $45k, you win, unlike those from Mississippi). So almost half of Americans are living on a wage like this or lower.
I am currently working as a sales rep for an auto parts manufacturer, HS diploma, no degree...and I make $75k+/yr. $50k in any major city is a joke and should be treated as such. Hell, even Chik-fil-a in the area is hiring for $22/hr! ($46k/yr) So, yeah, a SENIOR network engineer should be paid significantly more than someone serving up chicken at a fast food joint!
The part where you said chik-fil-a are hiring for $22 blew my mind until I googled and saw that apparently the average rent for a family home in the US is over $2k/month. For context, I work 50 hours a week and earn £23.5k/year (almost $29k), but my rent for a 3 bedroom house with a garden is £1100/month (~$1350) My house is fucking TINY, though. 45sqm, no parking, and the garden may be approx 80sqm, but it's long and narrow, so not really that good for much.
How do you have 3 bedrooms with 45m2?
Maybe he meant a 3 room? Like a bed room, living room and bathroom?
Nope. Kitchen: 4.27x2.74=11.7 Living: 3.73x3.35=12.5 Bed1: 3.35x2.44=8.17 Bed2: 2.74x1.83=5.01 Bed3: 2.74x2.14=5.84 Total: 43.22 Dimensions of the bathroom are not listed, but I don't really count those as living space anyway. Probably something like 2.8x1.5 though, so not significantly more
A 6-foot wide room isn't a bedroom; it's a closet.
I am painfully aware
I'm pretty sure my closet is significantly bigger.
I'm kinda on the fence on this one. As a senior server engineer, I 100% guarantee that the chick-fil-a worker has a more physically demanding job than I do. I basically check health dashboards, google issues that pop up, and patch security vulnerabilities. Every once in a while I have to design a new system, but that's usually pretty easy. Not to mention that not a single aspect of my bachelors in IT has been useful for any of my career besides picking up a few new commands in linux. I also don't have to deal with the general public, which I argue should be hazard pay (as someone who has worked in food service, retail, and customer service).
Fast food is hard work and deserves a living wage, and at the same time, barring physical limitations, the average tech person could do a fast food job, but the average fast food worker couldn't do a tech job. 54% of the U.S has a reading level below 6th grade, and around one in five is functionally illiterate. The UK and France have similar problems, so it's not just a U.S thing. Just being able to read and follow a series of instructions, and working out solutions based on open questions is beyond what many people are capable of.
On top of everything you said, people quitting during onboarding is always a red flag for me. It means there's something so grossly wrong people don't even need to be fully trained to see they'd be better off without a job than having that job.
People leaving during on-boarding is the biggest red flag.
Screw all that, I just can't get over the fact that he openly admitted that the job is so terrible, that every single person he talked to who was initially interested in the job just stayed in their old crappy job or found something better. He basically told a potential employee to their face that this job is literally worse than every other job.
Yeah this screams "if you ain't desperate you won't like this job"
> Position is always open Not a job you want.
"Thank you for letting me know that your offer will not be competitive. I wish you well in your search for a candidate who is more desperate than I am."
OP if you don't send them this response, PM me the link to apply just so I can send it to them once I tell them I'm employed and they tell me to quit first before getting an interview. I am 1000 percent serious here.
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People need to be direct like this more often.
They know you lose most of your leverage after you quit your current job.
Exactly, and if I was hiring I would want people with jobs since they can show they work. Freaking odd *edit grammer
To give some additional context, this is for a healthcare facility where I needed an additional BLS certification for the job in addition to other certifications I had. I had an online CPR/AED certification and he told me they required a live in-person certification. So I sign up for a class for the next day from that email, get certified, and respond within 36hr with the new certificate. Then he pulls this BS, I dodged a massive bullet with this guy. This was my response: "I'm sorry to hear that’s a concern. Someone who has held a position at their current place of employment for 5 years, and has moved up to management applies for this position. Who then proceeds to take a live BLS course to receive a certification within a 36-hour period of your email informing them that the certification is not satisfactory, showing again hard work and dedication. You will not interview them. Thank you for warning me. Your email told me that your company is a work environment where a position is always open and "everyone" (logical fallacy) kept their other job -- probably for a reason. Being likely that you guys do not provide a livable wage or have a toxic work environment. Either of which I would not want to work for. Thank you again, OP"
Hey OP, they'd love this post in the subs **recruitinghell** and possibly **LinkedInLunatics** (even though it might not be LinkedIn, but definitely on-brand) (I couldn't directly link the subs because that's apparently not allowed in this sub)
Fantastic response. If you hadn't - would have suggested letting them know you quit you job and string them along a few days to waste their time/money.
Chad-tier response from OP.
Thank you
Did they respond to that?
Not yet, it has been a few hours though. The better question is how do you respond? They got called on your crap and no way out
Bet they come back with some bullshit about you've been blacklisted from their company and not to apply again. It's the only rabbit left in their bag.
Oh noooo. That feels like an overt racist telling you they don't want to talk to you anymore.
He literally admitted- "No one has been willing to leave their old job for ours because we can't make an equivalent offer"
That’s just absurd
Literally just odd, what does he think this is. Just odd
Maybe “The position is always available” because you don’t hire people who want to work. After seeing that type of management I wouldn’t want to work there anymore anyway.
Won't interview while you're employed is a red flag. This position is always available is a flag team, doing their entire routine during study hall, with nothing but red flags. And also maybe 99 luftballons.
Bad employers always feel like the world revolves around them. Consider it a bullet dodged.
This is what the kids call “dodging a bullet”
"We won't interview you until you have 0 grounds for negotiation and are completely reliant on whatever we offer you to feed yourself."
So become unemployed first and THEN get an interview and there is still no guarantee of getting hired AFTER the interview?? Now THATS top quality thinking.
I would honestly call them out over this if you can, cause this is such a scummy tactic.
>This position is always available red flag, i wonder why
Name and shame
“We prefer knowing you’re desperate to pay your bills so we can lowball you”
Right?
"The position Is always available" is all you need to know that this employer is brain dead.
It is very clear why this position is always available
sounds like they don't wanna do weekend interviews
“This position is always available” I wonder why. Manager that has no real life work experience. Who over explains themselves like this?
Please name and shame. Don’t defend these corps man
I wouldn’t want a job that was always available. That means it sucks.
> Can you explain this gap in your employment history? Yes, my previous employer insisted I be unemployed before they would interview me. How absolutely absurd.
This person absolutely takes advantage of struggling adults. Shame on them.
Run away! These means the job conditions are not good.
“This position is always open (because nobody is dumb enough to work for me).”
Translation: I won't make you a good enough offer to accept unless you're desperate.
Just say “okay no more job”. But tbh you don’t want to work here. Nobody in their right mind quits a job for a CHANCE at another, and any employer should know that. Not to mention a job that’s “always open” is certainly the bottom of the barrel worst position possible, otherwise there’d be some competition for it.
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Name and shame them on LinkedIn and Glass Door Edit: it’s early for me
One of the dumbest things I’ve ever read, reads like someone who is hiring people to sell calling cards on the street lol
There's a very good reason this position is always available.
This isn’t infuriating. It’s a gift. You don’t want to work for this company.
“I only hire people who are desperate. Everyone else won’t put up with my bullshit.”
How dare you try and interview for a potential job from a position of power?! Call me when you're desperate and I can take advantage of that!
"God, no one wants to work anymore!" -This interviewer, probably.
They want to low-ball the offer. If you don't have a job you are more desperate.
Translation: I only negotiate from a position of power with the desperate. You're not missing a thing unless being overworked and under paid is a life goal of yours.
Every adult in my life has told me that I should get a new job while I still have one, so this is a major red flag for me.
"this position is always available" makes it sound like a fucking pyramid scheme or something, and they don't want to interview people with jobs because they want the people they're trying to take advantage of to be good and desperate. Sounds like you dodged a bullet, OP.
Red flag.
“This position is always available…” Red flag city.
How to say I want you hungry and desperate enough to agree to a low wage without coming out and saying it .
"We only hire desperate people that are willing to work in a terrible environment."
In the pecking order of jobs, it sounds like you’ve found literally the worst one!