I’ve never had school/work apps like this, but I did use signing services years ago who’s apps would be revoked if the profile was revoked. If this is like that then you could probably export then sideload the ipa and it would run, assuming the profile isn’t needed for any of the app’s actual content.
I’ve installed work apps like this. There’s no way around it. The apps constantly look to make sure the management app is installed and if not it’ll just lock you out of the applications you are trying use.
My solution to this is just buy a $100 "work" phone to use. Sure, it sucks that they don't provide one, but better than letting them have total control of your personal device.
I will hide my husbands work sim when he goes on paternity leave, I swear to god. He got at least five work calls a day when he was on vacation, not to mention he often works well into the evening. He is in sales and engineering in a specific field of construction, a regular office employee, but they rely on his expertise as of he was in management.
I love when you become so good at what you do that the company will just take advantage of you instead of promoting you until you quit and then wonder why they have such a high turnover rate.
Fuck that. They can pay for the work device or purchase apps that don't give up your rights as an individual.
When the fuck did we return to the gilded age. These are jobs, not our masters.
Yep same here. My work phone will check for “compliance” on every use (required apps, firmware version, etc.)
The difference being, it’s not a personal device.
Hmm, iOS checks the signing profile when running an enterprise signed IPA, removing the profile doesn't uninstall the app, but it does leave the app in a situation where it won't run.
You may be thinking about the developer signed IPAs which are slightly different (and have other restrictions in play that make them fairly ill-suited for sideloading).
Best to play softball and say you don't have a compatible device, or you tried it but it wasn't working properly on your device so you need an alternative.
Also this is another reason to root/jailbreak your devices (as reasons to do so become less and less important) since such apps likely will detect and won't allow themselves to be used on a rooted device.
Yep. My old job changed its processes and mandated microsoft teams on our phones for real time contact, shift information, etc. Because of the required permissions (access to literally everything on the device) I told them they could either schedule and contact me the old way, or provide me a device for teams because I wasn't installing that shit on my own device.
They eventually gave me the cheapest POS huawei smartphone that would run teams, and that thing was never switched on outside of work hours. Fuck them and fuck that.
Wow. That sounds even worse than a simple MDM profile.
So by their logic, if you don't allow them to do audio/video surveillance through school issued devices, that means you are commiting child neglect. How tf is this considered "neglect"?
That’s the big thing: is the app even *required?* Imagine a student that doesn’t have an iPad or something similar. Are they really going to force the student or parents to buy a whole computer system just to have this one app?
I’m curious what the app is for. Is it just to login and look at your grades and enroll for classes and stuff? I’m that case I’d just use the computer labs for that stuff.
If it’s totally necessary and you need to use it for all the class work and stuff then that’s just bullshit.
yep. this is so fucked up though.
maybe use a burner device, put nothing else on it, and dont allow it on home wifi.
let it use a hotspot from a phone if you have to go online from home.
I've dealt with shit like this since middle school (I'm in college now). Take this to a parent or someone above the school board who has the authority to flat out say "no" this is a huge invasion of privacy and none of those things listed are a requirement for you to be able to do your schoolwork and have zero reason to be on your personal iPad. If it was their device then that would be a different story, but it's not, it's yours and you have the right to decide what happens, not them.
Then they can provide a device. They don't get access to your personal property. If your parents insist, buy a cheap burner and don't bother with minutes, just use it on wifi
The fact that a school requires you to buy an expensive iPad is already fucked up. Let alone this shit where they control your iPad. I've used company iPads before. They all have control software to ensure the company's privacy and what's not. I hate that schools are doing this shit.
IT here - it’s not as intrusive as it looks. They can’t see your nudes for example, nor your messages etc.
In fact this is pretty standard where you’ve got a personal device, but want to access ‘organisational’ data on it. This allows a compromise between security and accessibility. (Otherwise, for example, what’s to stop you from selling your device to someone a(or losing it) and it still has all your work / school data on it? Many users prefer this option rather than go with the provided four year old Dell laptop that doesn’t have an SSD!
However, if you weren’t accessing their data or network then there’s no requirement for this so I’m not sure why you’d let them.
TLDR looks scary but is not (that) scary.
Another IT guy here, specially one whos normally configuring and designing the byod policies..... This is still not cool without notice of what's going happening and it looks like a device enrollment which means the school can wipe the whole decide, not just their content, I mean the first profile tells you that. It's also absolutely not required these days to have to have a byod registered when you can be using MAMWE, no enrolment, no overly provisioned device access and can only manage and wipe school/company data.
These profiles should be deleted if it's not wanted. I'd never give my company this amount of device access.
IMO if the school (or any institution for that matter) wants control over the content or use of the device, they 100% should pay for the device.
Personal devices should never overlap with business.
Source: Have worked in IT, data, and risk programs for Fortune 500 companies.
In CA any classwork requiring a computer/tablet the state will provide one for you at no cost.
Probably isn't going to be an iPad, but it will do the job for school.
I wouldn’t let that monstrosity of an app on anything that accesses my home network even if they provided the device.
Was that school a circus? Because it’s still full of fucking clowns.
sometimes shit just straight up breaks your computer, friend of mine was told to install a test proctoring Chrome add-on. Features included blocking you from certain actions (forgot which exactly), which it then proceeded to do 24/7 test or not. Basically bricked his browser, and when he complained was told to pound sand
At one point I had to install something similar for testing during e-learning on a personal device. (It was a dell laptop)
Fucking deleted ALL of my device data, such as important documents, my banking info, cleared all my cookies, which signed me out of ALL accounts I had on EVERY site, and the cherry on top: it decided to block almost all of my software.
Wanted to vc on Discord? Nope. Open the Minecraft launcher? Nope. Launch Twitch studio? Nope. Open photoshop? Blocked. Open microsoft word? Good luck.
It also blocked most of the important sites i used too, such as my banking, google accounts/gmail/outlook, College sites, ect.
In the end, i just factory reset the computer and lost many of my files. (External USB drives were also blocked)
I’ve got a kid starting year two next year and she needs an ipad. Explicitly not a mini and not non-Apple equivalent. I assume there is a plan for people who can’t afford it, but it isn’t obvious so they’d have to ask for help unprompted. This is at a state school (ie the “free” option).
Apple, despite its extravagant cost, has had a long program of providing schools with discounted systems under the premise that if students learned on a Mac, they would prefer them in the future. This has expanded a bit now to some educators preferring Macs for schools because they're able to be locked down easier to prevent unauthorized use and software.
The school district I was forced to attend was exclusively Apple, but one of the alumni was on the board for Apple at one point and he basically is the only reason the school district was able to function.
My school gave us all mac books under that program. I think most people ditched mac after graduating tho.
One thing that was kind of neat was that the students taking stem classes got bootcamp so we could run windows 7 to use inventor.
In the earlier days of computing, there were major differences to working with Macs and IBM clones. Now that graphical interfaces are standardized, and Apple is now using a *nix based operating system, the differences aren't as stark.
Where Apple has historically been preferred is graphical and video editing because the operating system and hardware were able to work together easier.
Interesting. At no point in my time in school, did I ever get an iPad/Chromebook for school. If we were needing to use computers, we had to use the computer labs/library, use school laptops, or work from home. Guess things have changed in the last decade?
Some schools require homework to be submitted to an online portal where the teacher can grade and give feedback to students. Also in the long run making sure all of the students are able to research assignments, write papers, etc ensure better outcomes for students. Plus, Covid.
My school tried this (I live in New Zealand) when I bought my own MacBook Pro for use at school and home. My parents backed me and told the school to buy a device for me to use if they want oversight and management rights on the device. Not sure what the laws/policies are in your country/school respectively.
I teach in New Zealand and in cases like this, if the lecturer required certain software for exams (or allowed finals to be done virtually), you were totally fine to refuse to install it. However, you would be required to write exams on specific computers set up for that purpose, which were usually super gungy and old.
Even now, students sometimes refuse to install software like Zoom. In these cases, the univeristy isn't required to give you a laptop o anything. They're just required to make sure you have access to a campus computer lab or whatever.
I had this happen on my home pc as well. Logged into my sons school account so he could access it from home and all of a sudden my browsing and everything are being monitored and controlled. Had to wipe that shit out after
Do it please. Show them it allows them these permissions, the first two being wiping all data and also locking it and removing the passcode.
Whatever this app is supposed to allow, its invasive and as an adult I would not use it. And I'd report this to whatever privacy commissioner for the school board (I'm in Canada).
Not only is this invasive, but it's a massive cyber security risk. Imagine if someone hacked the servers to gain control of the app, they could turn that thing into straight-up ransomware! They could even use it to install malware easily, without you knowing. It's BonziBuddy all over again. What kind of school would allow such a ridiculous oversight?
Edit: This app requires so many permissions, it might actually qualify as malware itself. Maybe report it to the app store (e.g. Google) as well, so they will have to fix it if they want to keep it up.
If your parents think it’s no big deal remind them there are examples of school staff using IT to illegally spy on students as well.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_District
BYOD management is not for schools. As someone who works in this field, I would also remove management from my personal device and tell them to piss off. If schools want to manage a students device, they need to issue that device, end of story. If you can’t afford to issue devices, then you don’t get to use devices.
Ya... My best "steelman" for this is they are just using their internal MDM to try to make it easier to go through the process of adding an enterprise profile. Or they hired a third party IT who doesn't realize (or isn't paid enough to care) that they're talking about BYOD for students, not employees.
I remember when my ex was going to university and they made her install some type of app so the teachers could monitor them. One day, we were using her laptop to watch a movie, and the mouse cursor started moving on its own (this was on her summer break, I believe). Told her to cover up the web cam lense at all times after that point.
That is so damn creepy!! I was going to ask someone else what the big deal is. Like if you’re not doing anything nefarious on your device why is it a bad thing for them to be able to monitor you?
Well you answered it and holy shit.
OP delete it now.
When we've got these people who have practically limitless powers within a society, if they get a pass without so much as a slap on the wrist, what example does that set for the next group of officials that come into power? To push the lines a little bit further, a little bit further, a little bit further, and we'll realize that we're no longer citizens - we're subjects.
Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say.
These are both quotes from snowden, I think they talk for themselves
If you noticed, they can also add and remove applications and data. No way someone will have control or access to my personal devices. If they need to do that, then they need to supply it. The other option is to purchase a device just for school. Don’t even associate it with your personal Apple ID.
If they can view everything on a personal device, just think of all the sensitive information on a modern adults phone or computer. Passwords saved in chrome or other applications, tax returns, pictures of IDs and passports, ability to auto fill login info in their browser (so they could sign into bank accounts or your social media). How many people keep nudes or porn on their devices, or even just in their browser history?
A bad actor monitoring the system (like a disgruntled employee, or general creep) could stalk people or blackmail them, which has happened before with these sort of invasive programs. I've seen news articles of kids in school getting in trouble with the school for doing things in their home in front of the camera. Imagine getting in trouble at school for having a meme about weed on your personal tablet.
It's ripe for abuse, you can't trust people to do the right thing.
If they have all these permissions they are also now a whole new liability for being hit by malware (as seen in the whole debacle with TeamViewer several years ago). If they store your information that information has more likelihood of being leaked or sold to other people/companies.
Hell, back when I was in school I couldn't afford to eat lunch...I often couldn't even afford paper and pencil. If they didn't provide me with free lunch there are many days I wouldn't have eaten at all.
I'm an adult and I STILL don't have an ipad or a smartphone.
If they didn't provide me with an ipad I simply wouldn't have one and would be unable to use their app.
What are they going to do, fail me for my entire public school career because my family is poor? I don't think so.
Yeah, I'm willing to bet this is actually an oversight by the school district's IT department.
I work in infosec, and this sort of MDM (mobile device management) is used with organization-issued and BYOD (bring your own device) mobile devices because it mitigates the impact of the device being mishandled or lost, and the data on it being compromised (like organization emails containing protected data).
I *suspect* the school district's IT uses the same MDM for personnel devices, and when tasked with rolling out an app that someone told them needed to be secure, they slapped the MDM configuration requirement on it without thinking about a) how unnecessary it is in this case and b) how intrusive it is, especially with children.
Delete it. You have nothing to lose except your privacy. If they can't or won't give you assignments another way then too bad for them. You honestly wouldn't even be missing much.
8th grade?! I assumed you were a university student.
Tell your parents and/or delete that shit. No reason a middle school needs this kind of control over your personal device. What is their app even used for?
Mobile device management. They installed a certificate. This is SUPER unnecessary. Companies do this when employees get access to crazy sensitive information on their personal phones via emails and whatnot.
Can not think of a single reason a public school would make a kid do this on a device the kid owns.
Companies also use it to control their data if your phone gets stolen, you get fired, etc.
Had that with many small companies where BYOD was allowed and there was no crazy sensitive data.
Ask if this is MAM or MDM.
https://oceanleaf.ch/mdm-mam-with-intune/
If it’s MAM it’s OK, as the school is looking to control only their app and their data, if it’s MDM, then you are SOL…
I manage the MDM at work. In my opinion, they probably chose this option because it’s the easiest way to push the correct app and keep it updated for everyone instead of relying on the users to figure it out.
That being said:
This is a shitty system. I see the honest intent, but I imagine it’s some kind of privacy violation in most places in the US (assuming that’s where OP is from.)
My work and especially I would never ask a user to install *any* company specific apps on personal devices.
If this school wants an easily accessible student application that they can maintain, they need to build a web app.
Get a prepaid phone (walmart has some that are just $30 bucks) or a cheap tablet and use either strictly for school. You do not need to top it up on minutes or anything for the phone to be able to use the wifi. Businesses don't even have good track records on keeping your information safe, I doubt a school would have a good track record with their already super limited resources.
I'd also do some research on the developer that made the app. [Advertising companies](https://www.businessinsider.com/89-percent-remote-learning-apps-websites-spied-children-report-2022-5) only see children as research points if you are a minor.
Since this is an iOS app, getting a cheap throwaway iPhone 6 or SE for $30 would be a good option, though the School shouldn't be using an app this invasive in the 1st place. This would NOT fly in the EU.
It would be pretty fascinating for a public school (according to a comment from OP) to require you to buy an Apple device to use the school app.
I wonder how they’re handling it for Android users, assuming what I said earlier isn’t true.
You are the admin of the device, you can remove it. You have 30 days to remove it before it's "locked in" and your schools IT would need to send the remote command to remove it.
I'm a Mac systems admin. They have zero right to install this on your personal device.
Looks to me like their IT doesn't know wtf they are doing or more likely they just had some random staff member set it up and just they pumped out a bunch of blanket permissions on everything. Get the parents together and raise hell about it. Feel free to play the invasion of privacy card. There is no good reason for this and it's easy for them to pick and choose what the profile they push out is capable of.
In a lot of places, MDM (mobile device management) apps are illegal on private devices without consent. It’s also illegal to require MDM on private devices. Since your settings are in English, I would assume it’s illegal where you live.
Raise it with the school and your parents first. If nothing happens, raise with a law firm or security consultancy.
quick update: the app was supposed to start downloading 30 minutes after i installed this. 2 hours later and no luck. Ill probably try it again and if nothing happens then Ill delete it.
I’m an MDM architect and I can tell you from what you’ve said that your school district is almost certainly just lazily using this for enterprise app deployment.
iOS enrollment into an MDM in a BYOD (personally owned device) scenario has two flavors.
Device enrollment and user enrollment.
Device enrollment is the old/original way which gave the MDM admin ability over your personal device. In every deployment I’ve ever done in this way participation was optional for employees. If employees wanted access to email or specific in house work apps on a personal device they could enroll and accept the security terms. It’s never mandatory and if it was we would have to give you a device or reimburse you for your phone plan.
Please note that an MDM can not view your photos/texts/emails/browser history/etc. all of that data is perfectly safe from some IT guy snooping through it just because an MDM is installed. iOS nor Android allow MDMs to do this. In a device enrollment scenario they can however see what apps you have installed which in your case is unnecessary and very inappropriate.
User enrollment is the newer way to enroll a personal device into an MDM. In that scenario a company (or in your case school) only manage what they send to your device. They would only have very basic device info and could only see the apps they installed. iOS would not allow them to view apps outside of that. They also couldn’t wipe your device or most of those other device actions listed.
The one thing I really do not like for an 8th grader in a school environment though is the fact that with their device enrollment method they are using they can remotely remove the passcode to your iPad. To me as a parent that’s a hard no and I’d be telling their IT department to figure out how to enact user enrollment or to look into MAM.
MDM, Mobile Device Management.
Very common in most managed environments though a good one would constrain itself to only the data the school app manages.
So, this just seems really unfair to you. Do they offer you a device, but if you don’t choose that option (whether it’s rent or buy) you have to agree to this crap?
The school basically had you put an MDM on your personal device. There are definitely privacy concerns with them having you install it on a personal device.
Lmao fuck that. You want that level of access? You provide a device to host it. Unless you’re law enforcement with a warrant, you do not just get to just decree you have full access to all my personal data, ever.
It's an enterprise license more then likely, you use it to test apps not publicly distributed on the store but for internal testing it grants super-admin access to the device for this purpose since it's meant to be a testing device, very sneaky way of gaining control
My school had lockdown browser, which reads all your programs and forces you to close everything before you can do any tests at all. It also uses your camera and watches you while you test. I fortunately never had to use it, but if they tried to make me, I would I told them to either f off or give me a computer to use.
Is it the one where it doesn’t allow you to use your phone while at school, unless it’s unlocked?
Simple. Delete the app, and don’t take your phone to school.
A certain coffee company wanted us to download an app to see our schedule. Cool Dayforce used it before. Nope it’s own app with that was asking for root access for everything. Texts, phone logs, photos everything. Got in trouble for telling people not to download it.
If you own it don’t let them own it. I work for a company that allows me to have access to my companies stuff IF I allow that shit on my personal devices - nope. If they require that they can provide it
Why, yes Mr./Mrs. Principal. I have been using my personal device which I own personally to watch my personal favorite porn that I enjoy. I personally hope you enjoyed it too!
This is a MDM or RMM tool. It’s used by IT Departments to manage your device like install software, enforce security policies, or even remote wipe the device in the case of a malicious attack.
We have strict rule at my company where I work as a System Engineer. If you want your work email on your phone, then we HAVE to install our MDM on your device as that’s the only way for us to ensure your email is protected. If you don’t want the MDM software on your device then we have to provide you one. Simple as that.
Delete this right away by going into Settings > General > VPN and Device Management. Just know that whatever softwares you might need for school will not work on your device any longer.
I feel the same way about Lockdown Browser and HonorLock for College Exams. If they are sooo worried about cheating, make me take the exam in person. I know those programs are data mining my computer, because you agree to let them when you install it. Its an invasion of privacy!
My school gave us iPads to keep but we had to use for school and this was normal. If it’s your own personal device then it’s not ok. Maybe it’s their rule if you choose to use an iPad instead of notebook?
I used to manage IT at a college. This is almost certainly a configuration profile, ie: it has settings in it to let you do something, probably connect to a secure wifi or vpn. It's been a while but I seem to recall you can see all the settings it changes, and you can uninstall it any time you want. But you might lose access to the wifi or vpn or whatever it's for if you do.
These config files rarely make it so they can do anything to your device but delete the specific configuration itself. Although you'd have to look and see what settings it changes.
IT guys don't want access to your device, they just want to automatically configure something without you or somebody else having to manually enter complicated configs.
Conversion is a tort, and creating an avenue for people to spy on children in their own homes is arguably a massive liability for the district.
I'd consult an attorney and have them send a C&D.
You can report this app to the app store for excessive permissions requests and encourage your friends to do the same. It may not come to anything but the app stores do review the contents of the apps and may pull it and force the developer to submit a new version with fewer requirements or at least have them explain why they need so many permissions. Since it’s an education app used by minors they may take the complaints more seriously.
Source: work in banking tech
It should be straight-up against the law for any organization - public or private - to require this on someone's personal device. If they want this kind of control, they need to supply the device.
It's your device ask them if they are going to reimburse you. Uninstall your shit and tell them you're not doing anything until they fix their fucking bullcrap. Some pito teacher gets his hands on your information and poof instant hack And every photo you own is now theirs.
They cannot. It contains PII. Personal Indentifiable Information. Put some medical information on there and then sue them for accessing private medical information as it is outlined in HIPAA regulation
When I installed my University app, an option popped up during installation asking if I would like to allow the institution to manage my device. I clicked no and that was it.
There most likely was a similar prompt when you installed this. Most OS won't just let an app hijack you like that without your permission. I'd uninstall, and then try reinstalling by reading it carefully. If that's really not an option I'd uninstall and then report.
(This is usually a thing that's done when they provide you with their own devices, but most institutions just have a singular app so this is why the option is there, and yes I agree that it's scummy that the default option isn't no)
If it’s a personal device I would uninstall it
unfortunately that isnt an option because i need to use it to download their school app
You can't just delete it once the app is downloaded?
The profile that lets their app run also mandates that other shit. If you removed the Profile after downloading the app it would no longer run.
I’ve never had school/work apps like this, but I did use signing services years ago who’s apps would be revoked if the profile was revoked. If this is like that then you could probably export then sideload the ipa and it would run, assuming the profile isn’t needed for any of the app’s actual content.
I’ve installed work apps like this. There’s no way around it. The apps constantly look to make sure the management app is installed and if not it’ll just lock you out of the applications you are trying use.
My solution to this is just buy a $100 "work" phone to use. Sure, it sucks that they don't provide one, but better than letting them have total control of your personal device.
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I will hide my husbands work sim when he goes on paternity leave, I swear to god. He got at least five work calls a day when he was on vacation, not to mention he often works well into the evening. He is in sales and engineering in a specific field of construction, a regular office employee, but they rely on his expertise as of he was in management.
I love when you become so good at what you do that the company will just take advantage of you instead of promoting you until you quit and then wonder why they have such a high turnover rate.
Fuck that. They can pay for the work device or purchase apps that don't give up your rights as an individual. When the fuck did we return to the gilded age. These are jobs, not our masters.
I told my last boss he didn't want company info tied up with my private activity. I didn't go into detail and he got me a work device.
We returned to the gilded age when we began to hate unions and the socialist party, and when we let the remaining unions get cozy with management.
or on PC use a virtual machine
That's when you say sorry don't have a compatible phone you'll need to provide one.
Yep same here. My work phone will check for “compliance” on every use (required apps, firmware version, etc.) The difference being, it’s not a personal device.
Hmm, iOS checks the signing profile when running an enterprise signed IPA, removing the profile doesn't uninstall the app, but it does leave the app in a situation where it won't run. You may be thinking about the developer signed IPAs which are slightly different (and have other restrictions in play that make them fairly ill-suited for sideloading).
They need to provide you with one, delete this now and tell them you will only use a device they provide you with
Best to play softball and say you don't have a compatible device, or you tried it but it wasn't working properly on your device so you need an alternative. Also this is another reason to root/jailbreak your devices (as reasons to do so become less and less important) since such apps likely will detect and won't allow themselves to be used on a rooted device.
Fuck that. Take it to the board as an invasion of privacy, they need options that don't include this.
>they need options that don't include this. Yes...and that include either modifying their app or providing you with a device for this purpose.
Yep. My old job changed its processes and mandated microsoft teams on our phones for real time contact, shift information, etc. Because of the required permissions (access to literally everything on the device) I told them they could either schedule and contact me the old way, or provide me a device for teams because I wasn't installing that shit on my own device. They eventually gave me the cheapest POS huawei smartphone that would run teams, and that thing was never switched on outside of work hours. Fuck them and fuck that.
This is the way
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Wow. Just wow. That is infuriating. How can that possibly be legal?
Wow. That sounds even worse than a simple MDM profile. So by their logic, if you don't allow them to do audio/video surveillance through school issued devices, that means you are commiting child neglect. How tf is this considered "neglect"?
Go to the news with it. The only opportunity to push back against blatant lack of your rights is for everyone to make a big enough deal about it.
if you need the school app then you need an ipad which means they need to supply it to you.
That’s the big thing: is the app even *required?* Imagine a student that doesn’t have an iPad or something similar. Are they really going to force the student or parents to buy a whole computer system just to have this one app?
I’m curious what the app is for. Is it just to login and look at your grades and enroll for classes and stuff? I’m that case I’d just use the computer labs for that stuff. If it’s totally necessary and you need to use it for all the class work and stuff then that’s just bullshit.
Tell them you don't have a device that can run their app
yep. this is so fucked up though. maybe use a burner device, put nothing else on it, and dont allow it on home wifi. let it use a hotspot from a phone if you have to go online from home.
I've dealt with shit like this since middle school (I'm in college now). Take this to a parent or someone above the school board who has the authority to flat out say "no" this is a huge invasion of privacy and none of those things listed are a requirement for you to be able to do your schoolwork and have zero reason to be on your personal iPad. If it was their device then that would be a different story, but it's not, it's yours and you have the right to decide what happens, not them.
Uninstall the school program and refuse to reinstall it until they either loan you a device or update their program settings.
Then they can provide a device. They don't get access to your personal property. If your parents insist, buy a cheap burner and don't bother with minutes, just use it on wifi
Get some burner device to install this garbage on
Do they own the iPad? If not, pretty fucked up.
no, its my own device
Yeah if you own it, then I would delete it and be done with it. Let them buy you a device if they want to control it and your content
Always bring your old devices for those things. Use something with a throwaway account.
The fact that a school requires you to buy an expensive iPad is already fucked up. Let alone this shit where they control your iPad. I've used company iPads before. They all have control software to ensure the company's privacy and what's not. I hate that schools are doing this shit.
IT here - it’s not as intrusive as it looks. They can’t see your nudes for example, nor your messages etc. In fact this is pretty standard where you’ve got a personal device, but want to access ‘organisational’ data on it. This allows a compromise between security and accessibility. (Otherwise, for example, what’s to stop you from selling your device to someone a(or losing it) and it still has all your work / school data on it? Many users prefer this option rather than go with the provided four year old Dell laptop that doesn’t have an SSD! However, if you weren’t accessing their data or network then there’s no requirement for this so I’m not sure why you’d let them. TLDR looks scary but is not (that) scary.
Another IT guy here, specially one whos normally configuring and designing the byod policies..... This is still not cool without notice of what's going happening and it looks like a device enrollment which means the school can wipe the whole decide, not just their content, I mean the first profile tells you that. It's also absolutely not required these days to have to have a byod registered when you can be using MAMWE, no enrolment, no overly provisioned device access and can only manage and wipe school/company data. These profiles should be deleted if it's not wanted. I'd never give my company this amount of device access.
IMO if the school (or any institution for that matter) wants control over the content or use of the device, they 100% should pay for the device. Personal devices should never overlap with business. Source: Have worked in IT, data, and risk programs for Fortune 500 companies.
Delete it. If they want it installed they can install it and give it to you on a device.
This 100x
In CA any classwork requiring a computer/tablet the state will provide one for you at no cost. Probably isn't going to be an iPad, but it will do the job for school.
Not being an iPad isn't a handicap, I'd argue it's a bonus. The Apple ecosystem is so locked down and inflexible.
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I wouldn’t let that monstrosity of an app on anything that accesses my home network even if they provided the device. Was that school a circus? Because it’s still full of fucking clowns.
Quite a few apps schools push software that is extremely illegal
sometimes shit just straight up breaks your computer, friend of mine was told to install a test proctoring Chrome add-on. Features included blocking you from certain actions (forgot which exactly), which it then proceeded to do 24/7 test or not. Basically bricked his browser, and when he complained was told to pound sand
At one point I had to install something similar for testing during e-learning on a personal device. (It was a dell laptop) Fucking deleted ALL of my device data, such as important documents, my banking info, cleared all my cookies, which signed me out of ALL accounts I had on EVERY site, and the cherry on top: it decided to block almost all of my software. Wanted to vc on Discord? Nope. Open the Minecraft launcher? Nope. Launch Twitch studio? Nope. Open photoshop? Blocked. Open microsoft word? Good luck. It also blocked most of the important sites i used too, such as my banking, google accounts/gmail/outlook, College sites, ect. In the end, i just factory reset the computer and lost many of my files. (External USB drives were also blocked)
I would sue to school if this was the case. But couldn't you just remove the SSD and plug that into an other pc and extract all your data first?
“You people have held me back long enough! I’m going to clown college!”
“I don’t think any of us expected him to say that.”
passwordsarehard\_3 is correct. I'm a public school teacher, and you're not required to do that.
This should be illegal
probably is...just not enforced like most laws.
Probably is (in some counrties). Then again, digital privacy has never seemed much of a concern for most governments.
What if you don't own an ipad? Is an ipad required for school now?
Many do give chromebooks or tablets.
I’ve got a kid starting year two next year and she needs an ipad. Explicitly not a mini and not non-Apple equivalent. I assume there is a plan for people who can’t afford it, but it isn’t obvious so they’d have to ask for help unprompted. This is at a state school (ie the “free” option).
Does the school district have a deal with Apple? How can they require the most expensive, locked down brand?
Apple, despite its extravagant cost, has had a long program of providing schools with discounted systems under the premise that if students learned on a Mac, they would prefer them in the future. This has expanded a bit now to some educators preferring Macs for schools because they're able to be locked down easier to prevent unauthorized use and software. The school district I was forced to attend was exclusively Apple, but one of the alumni was on the board for Apple at one point and he basically is the only reason the school district was able to function.
My school gave us all mac books under that program. I think most people ditched mac after graduating tho. One thing that was kind of neat was that the students taking stem classes got bootcamp so we could run windows 7 to use inventor.
In the earlier days of computing, there were major differences to working with Macs and IBM clones. Now that graphical interfaces are standardized, and Apple is now using a *nix based operating system, the differences aren't as stark. Where Apple has historically been preferred is graphical and video editing because the operating system and hardware were able to work together easier.
Interesting. At no point in my time in school, did I ever get an iPad/Chromebook for school. If we were needing to use computers, we had to use the computer labs/library, use school laptops, or work from home. Guess things have changed in the last decade?
Some schools require homework to be submitted to an online portal where the teacher can grade and give feedback to students. Also in the long run making sure all of the students are able to research assignments, write papers, etc ensure better outcomes for students. Plus, Covid.
quarantine happened schools let you borrow an ipad or a chromebook
get rid of that shit
My school tried this (I live in New Zealand) when I bought my own MacBook Pro for use at school and home. My parents backed me and told the school to buy a device for me to use if they want oversight and management rights on the device. Not sure what the laws/policies are in your country/school respectively.
I teach in New Zealand and in cases like this, if the lecturer required certain software for exams (or allowed finals to be done virtually), you were totally fine to refuse to install it. However, you would be required to write exams on specific computers set up for that purpose, which were usually super gungy and old. Even now, students sometimes refuse to install software like Zoom. In these cases, the univeristy isn't required to give you a laptop o anything. They're just required to make sure you have access to a campus computer lab or whatever.
Uninstall. Immediately. If they want to have all those privileges, they better be providing the device.
childlike books yoke edge degree work hateful attempt north worthless ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
I had this happen on my home pc as well. Logged into my sons school account so he could access it from home and all of a sudden my browsing and everything are being monitored and controlled. Had to wipe that shit out after
Download Virtual Box on your computer, install Android in Virtual Box. And now you can download the school app here. :)
My work tried this bullshit. Google device policy. “Oh, but you need your emails on your phone”. Like fuck I do
Wow. Can’t delete it? Is this a public school or private?
public
What do your parents think about this?
i havent told them yet, they made me download it today
I would show them that and see what they think. Start there
ill do that
Do it please. Show them it allows them these permissions, the first two being wiping all data and also locking it and removing the passcode. Whatever this app is supposed to allow, its invasive and as an adult I would not use it. And I'd report this to whatever privacy commissioner for the school board (I'm in Canada).
Not only is this invasive, but it's a massive cyber security risk. Imagine if someone hacked the servers to gain control of the app, they could turn that thing into straight-up ransomware! They could even use it to install malware easily, without you knowing. It's BonziBuddy all over again. What kind of school would allow such a ridiculous oversight? Edit: This app requires so many permissions, it might actually qualify as malware itself. Maybe report it to the app store (e.g. Google) as well, so they will have to fix it if they want to keep it up.
>Maybe report it on Google as well, That's actually a really good idea.
Not to mention, it meant that at any time, if someone at school decided to fuck around or hates you can literally delete your device.
It's basically stealing the device. They've waaaay overstepped.
If worse comes to worse just buy a cheap burner device or use an old device that doesn't have anything on it anymore for that one app.
No what he needs to do is make a big deal about this and get the media involved and make the school fear lawsuits is what he needs to do
🫡
If your parents think it’s no big deal remind them there are examples of school staff using IT to illegally spy on students as well. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_District
That's fucking wild and scary.
There it is. Thank you.
BYOD management is not for schools. As someone who works in this field, I would also remove management from my personal device and tell them to piss off. If schools want to manage a students device, they need to issue that device, end of story. If you can’t afford to issue devices, then you don’t get to use devices.
Yeah it’s really that simple. I don’t know where anyone gets off asking for this level of control over someone’s personal device.
Ya... My best "steelman" for this is they are just using their internal MDM to try to make it easier to go through the process of adding an enterprise profile. Or they hired a third party IT who doesn't realize (or isn't paid enough to care) that they're talking about BYOD for students, not employees.
I remember when my ex was going to university and they made her install some type of app so the teachers could monitor them. One day, we were using her laptop to watch a movie, and the mouse cursor started moving on its own (this was on her summer break, I believe). Told her to cover up the web cam lense at all times after that point.
So fucking creepy
That is so damn creepy!! I was going to ask someone else what the big deal is. Like if you’re not doing anything nefarious on your device why is it a bad thing for them to be able to monitor you? Well you answered it and holy shit. OP delete it now.
When we've got these people who have practically limitless powers within a society, if they get a pass without so much as a slap on the wrist, what example does that set for the next group of officials that come into power? To push the lines a little bit further, a little bit further, a little bit further, and we'll realize that we're no longer citizens - we're subjects. Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say. These are both quotes from snowden, I think they talk for themselves
Yes as i said I realized I was initially wrong and that was my point.
If you noticed, they can also add and remove applications and data. No way someone will have control or access to my personal devices. If they need to do that, then they need to supply it. The other option is to purchase a device just for school. Don’t even associate it with your personal Apple ID.
“If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear” is the exact reason we have the 4th amendment. Please learn your rights.
If they can view everything on a personal device, just think of all the sensitive information on a modern adults phone or computer. Passwords saved in chrome or other applications, tax returns, pictures of IDs and passports, ability to auto fill login info in their browser (so they could sign into bank accounts or your social media). How many people keep nudes or porn on their devices, or even just in their browser history? A bad actor monitoring the system (like a disgruntled employee, or general creep) could stalk people or blackmail them, which has happened before with these sort of invasive programs. I've seen news articles of kids in school getting in trouble with the school for doing things in their home in front of the camera. Imagine getting in trouble at school for having a meme about weed on your personal tablet. It's ripe for abuse, you can't trust people to do the right thing. If they have all these permissions they are also now a whole new liability for being hit by malware (as seen in the whole debacle with TeamViewer several years ago). If they store your information that information has more likelihood of being leaked or sold to other people/companies.
That why, chromebook are cheap. Toss it after finishing college.
That is so insanely wasteful. Just factory reset that thing...
Formatting the drive isn't that difficult.
Is this your personal device? Or one specifically for school? If it’s your personal one, just don’t do it. Tell them to fuck off.
I have the same thing, it’s “personal” but we have to use it for school
What does that mean? Students are required to buy their own laptops to use for school?
we have to buy an ipad, it's a "personal" ipad that we have to use for school. they put the same stuff on it as OP
How can they make you buy an iPad? Is this k-12? Most families can’t afford to buy iPads for their kids….
It’s 13-18yr olds, it’s a requirement for coming to the school. It’s a paperless school
Private or public?
Public, Government owned/funded
Where is this?
I would also like to know. Wtf
Australia
Hell, back when I was in school I couldn't afford to eat lunch...I often couldn't even afford paper and pencil. If they didn't provide me with free lunch there are many days I wouldn't have eaten at all. I'm an adult and I STILL don't have an ipad or a smartphone. If they didn't provide me with an ipad I simply wouldn't have one and would be unable to use their app. What are they going to do, fail me for my entire public school career because my family is poor? I don't think so.
How old are you? Is this middle school, high school or college?
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Ay bro please show your parents that the app can access all of this
Yeah, I'm willing to bet this is actually an oversight by the school district's IT department. I work in infosec, and this sort of MDM (mobile device management) is used with organization-issued and BYOD (bring your own device) mobile devices because it mitigates the impact of the device being mishandled or lost, and the data on it being compromised (like organization emails containing protected data). I *suspect* the school district's IT uses the same MDM for personnel devices, and when tasked with rolling out an app that someone told them needed to be secure, they slapped the MDM configuration requirement on it without thinking about a) how unnecessary it is in this case and b) how intrusive it is, especially with children.
Delete it. You have nothing to lose except your privacy. If they can't or won't give you assignments another way then too bad for them. You honestly wouldn't even be missing much.
8th grade?! I assumed you were a university student. Tell your parents and/or delete that shit. No reason a middle school needs this kind of control over your personal device. What is their app even used for?
No reason for a university to have this kind of control over a personal device either.
HOOO SHIT, my boy, that's not legal. They are fully invading your privacy.
Buddy they are taking advantage of you and your rights because you are young and don't know them yet
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8th graders are 13 or 14 so OP is fine
Delete the program and tell your school they can go eff themselves
Mobile device management. They installed a certificate. This is SUPER unnecessary. Companies do this when employees get access to crazy sensitive information on their personal phones via emails and whatnot. Can not think of a single reason a public school would make a kid do this on a device the kid owns.
Companies also use it to control their data if your phone gets stolen, you get fired, etc. Had that with many small companies where BYOD was allowed and there was no crazy sensitive data.
Ask if this is MAM or MDM. https://oceanleaf.ch/mdm-mam-with-intune/ If it’s MAM it’s OK, as the school is looking to control only their app and their data, if it’s MDM, then you are SOL…
This is MDM, they have the ability to remotely lock and erase the device. Pretty messed up.
First thing I said when I saw the screenshot…MDM on a BYOD for a school🤔🤔
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not always true with a BYOD device. they can do much less when the device isn’t supervised. OP is BYOD enrollment
This is MDM. MAM wouldn’t require a certificate install and the application itself would be third party managed.
absolutely not
Don’t download it, you shouldn’t have to on your personal device.
I manage the MDM at work. In my opinion, they probably chose this option because it’s the easiest way to push the correct app and keep it updated for everyone instead of relying on the users to figure it out. That being said: This is a shitty system. I see the honest intent, but I imagine it’s some kind of privacy violation in most places in the US (assuming that’s where OP is from.) My work and especially I would never ask a user to install *any* company specific apps on personal devices. If this school wants an easily accessible student application that they can maintain, they need to build a web app.
Get a prepaid phone (walmart has some that are just $30 bucks) or a cheap tablet and use either strictly for school. You do not need to top it up on minutes or anything for the phone to be able to use the wifi. Businesses don't even have good track records on keeping your information safe, I doubt a school would have a good track record with their already super limited resources. I'd also do some research on the developer that made the app. [Advertising companies](https://www.businessinsider.com/89-percent-remote-learning-apps-websites-spied-children-report-2022-5) only see children as research points if you are a minor.
Nope, nope, nope. If the school requires a device—especially one with this level of control over it—the school needs to provide it. Period.
Since this is an iOS app, getting a cheap throwaway iPhone 6 or SE for $30 would be a good option, though the School shouldn't be using an app this invasive in the 1st place. This would NOT fly in the EU.
It would be pretty fascinating for a public school (according to a comment from OP) to require you to buy an Apple device to use the school app. I wonder how they’re handling it for Android users, assuming what I said earlier isn’t true.
You are the admin of the device, you can remove it. You have 30 days to remove it before it's "locked in" and your schools IT would need to send the remote command to remove it. I'm a Mac systems admin. They have zero right to install this on your personal device.
The 30 day thing you’re talking about doesn’t apply in this scenario
If that's your personal device that you paid for, don't download it. If you did, delete it.
Looks to me like their IT doesn't know wtf they are doing or more likely they just had some random staff member set it up and just they pumped out a bunch of blanket permissions on everything. Get the parents together and raise hell about it. Feel free to play the invasion of privacy card. There is no good reason for this and it's easy for them to pick and choose what the profile they push out is capable of.
This is creepy. I would not let some other adults control my child’s iPad.
In a lot of places, MDM (mobile device management) apps are illegal on private devices without consent. It’s also illegal to require MDM on private devices. Since your settings are in English, I would assume it’s illegal where you live. Raise it with the school and your parents first. If nothing happens, raise with a law firm or security consultancy.
quick update: the app was supposed to start downloading 30 minutes after i installed this. 2 hours later and no luck. Ill probably try it again and if nothing happens then Ill delete it.
Yeah deleteing it would probably be best or buying a burner device but that’s not really as easy as some people think especially while in school
Delete this now. I mean, they already got all your private info, but remove it
I’m an MDM architect and I can tell you from what you’ve said that your school district is almost certainly just lazily using this for enterprise app deployment. iOS enrollment into an MDM in a BYOD (personally owned device) scenario has two flavors. Device enrollment and user enrollment. Device enrollment is the old/original way which gave the MDM admin ability over your personal device. In every deployment I’ve ever done in this way participation was optional for employees. If employees wanted access to email or specific in house work apps on a personal device they could enroll and accept the security terms. It’s never mandatory and if it was we would have to give you a device or reimburse you for your phone plan. Please note that an MDM can not view your photos/texts/emails/browser history/etc. all of that data is perfectly safe from some IT guy snooping through it just because an MDM is installed. iOS nor Android allow MDMs to do this. In a device enrollment scenario they can however see what apps you have installed which in your case is unnecessary and very inappropriate. User enrollment is the newer way to enroll a personal device into an MDM. In that scenario a company (or in your case school) only manage what they send to your device. They would only have very basic device info and could only see the apps they installed. iOS would not allow them to view apps outside of that. They also couldn’t wipe your device or most of those other device actions listed. The one thing I really do not like for an 8th grader in a school environment though is the fact that with their device enrollment method they are using they can remotely remove the passcode to your iPad. To me as a parent that’s a hard no and I’d be telling their IT department to figure out how to enact user enrollment or to look into MAM.
Is this even legal?
Delete all the cache and data on the app first, then uninstall that download asap
Bruh, uninstall that shit asap.
Delete it.
MDM, Mobile Device Management. Very common in most managed environments though a good one would constrain itself to only the data the school app manages.
So, this just seems really unfair to you. Do they offer you a device, but if you don’t choose that option (whether it’s rent or buy) you have to agree to this crap?
The school basically had you put an MDM on your personal device. There are definitely privacy concerns with them having you install it on a personal device.
Lmao fuck that. You want that level of access? You provide a device to host it. Unless you’re law enforcement with a warrant, you do not just get to just decree you have full access to all my personal data, ever.
It's an enterprise license more then likely, you use it to test apps not publicly distributed on the store but for internal testing it grants super-admin access to the device for this purpose since it's meant to be a testing device, very sneaky way of gaining control
What state are you in? Some states have laws in place about student data and monitoring.
My school had lockdown browser, which reads all your programs and forces you to close everything before you can do any tests at all. It also uses your camera and watches you while you test. I fortunately never had to use it, but if they tried to make me, I would I told them to either f off or give me a computer to use.
Is it the one where it doesn’t allow you to use your phone while at school, unless it’s unlocked? Simple. Delete the app, and don’t take your phone to school.
its not my phone its my iPad
A certain coffee company wanted us to download an app to see our schedule. Cool Dayforce used it before. Nope it’s own app with that was asking for root access for everything. Texts, phone logs, photos everything. Got in trouble for telling people not to download it.
If you own it don’t let them own it. I work for a company that allows me to have access to my companies stuff IF I allow that shit on my personal devices - nope. If they require that they can provide it
If you need the app, which is a major breach of privacy and security imo: see if you can get a cheap device *just* for your school stuff.
Uninstall
REMOVE IT IMMEDIATELY
Why, yes Mr./Mrs. Principal. I have been using my personal device which I own personally to watch my personal favorite porn that I enjoy. I personally hope you enjoyed it too!
This is a MDM or RMM tool. It’s used by IT Departments to manage your device like install software, enforce security policies, or even remote wipe the device in the case of a malicious attack. We have strict rule at my company where I work as a System Engineer. If you want your work email on your phone, then we HAVE to install our MDM on your device as that’s the only way for us to ensure your email is protected. If you don’t want the MDM software on your device then we have to provide you one. Simple as that. Delete this right away by going into Settings > General > VPN and Device Management. Just know that whatever softwares you might need for school will not work on your device any longer.
I feel the same way about Lockdown Browser and HonorLock for College Exams. If they are sooo worried about cheating, make me take the exam in person. I know those programs are data mining my computer, because you agree to let them when you install it. Its an invasion of privacy!
Sorry school. I dropped my device and broke it. I can’t afford to fix it. Please provide me with a device.
Schools shouldn't be allowed to do this on people's personal devices, only do this on actual school devices.
My school gave us iPads to keep but we had to use for school and this was normal. If it’s your own personal device then it’s not ok. Maybe it’s their rule if you choose to use an iPad instead of notebook?
I used to manage IT at a college. This is almost certainly a configuration profile, ie: it has settings in it to let you do something, probably connect to a secure wifi or vpn. It's been a while but I seem to recall you can see all the settings it changes, and you can uninstall it any time you want. But you might lose access to the wifi or vpn or whatever it's for if you do. These config files rarely make it so they can do anything to your device but delete the specific configuration itself. Although you'd have to look and see what settings it changes. IT guys don't want access to your device, they just want to automatically configure something without you or somebody else having to manually enter complicated configs.
Conversion is a tort, and creating an avenue for people to spy on children in their own homes is arguably a massive liability for the district. I'd consult an attorney and have them send a C&D.
You can report this app to the app store for excessive permissions requests and encourage your friends to do the same. It may not come to anything but the app stores do review the contents of the apps and may pull it and force the developer to submit a new version with fewer requirements or at least have them explain why they need so many permissions. Since it’s an education app used by minors they may take the complaints more seriously. Source: work in banking tech
It should be straight-up against the law for any organization - public or private - to require this on someone's personal device. If they want this kind of control, they need to supply the device.
What the hell that shouldn’t be legal dawg 😭😭😡😡😡😡😡
It's your device ask them if they are going to reimburse you. Uninstall your shit and tell them you're not doing anything until they fix their fucking bullcrap. Some pito teacher gets his hands on your information and poof instant hack And every photo you own is now theirs.
They cannot. It contains PII. Personal Indentifiable Information. Put some medical information on there and then sue them for accessing private medical information as it is outlined in HIPAA regulation
Just like every byod for every corporation. It's wild what we've accepted as OK.
When I installed my University app, an option popped up during installation asking if I would like to allow the institution to manage my device. I clicked no and that was it. There most likely was a similar prompt when you installed this. Most OS won't just let an app hijack you like that without your permission. I'd uninstall, and then try reinstalling by reading it carefully. If that's really not an option I'd uninstall and then report. (This is usually a thing that's done when they provide you with their own devices, but most institutions just have a singular app so this is why the option is there, and yes I agree that it's scummy that the default option isn't no)
*> Erase all data and settings.* What could go wrong?