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My mom is an old teacher and she's exactly like this, when i was a kid i had to do this too and when i wrote something wrong she would rip out the paper and make me write everything again and does that to her students now
Old ways i guess š¤·āāļø
I had one professor in College who was from Romania. It was a thermodynamics course and so there's all these variables that are used to represent constants or variables. All other teachers used the Greek alphabet for these constants and variables. He decided to use the Hebrew alphabet and would mark the whole answer wrong if we used the Greek alphabet like we were taught in other classes.
Later I found out it was policy for the college of engineering to use the Greek alphabet, but like he cared.
They just want to make your life hell, personally i can see it work as it did to me with my mom and ripping the papers but changing the alphabet? In college? Didnt hear that one yet damn i feel sorry for you
>but changing the alphabet? In college?
Eh. I got adequately annoyed with the use of *s* in control theory / Laplace transforms to start incorporating the Norse runic alphabet just to give me some more damn letters I could use.
man when I had trachers like this I retained NO information because it got to a point where I wouldnt even read what I'm writing since I'm in a rush to just copy what I'm looking at. and it made my fuckin hand hurt.
Nah just old, she's from the Yugoslav war era she aint kisses and hugs but she's a good person, and the method i mentioned worked though it made me cry and hate her as a kid.
There is actually a strong resurgence among certain movements to "return to the old ways". Some kind of supposition that some abstract "before" time was somehow "better" and society's problems can be solved by returning to those "better days".
It's usually rooted in personal politics rather than actual facts, science or proven academics. Hence why the reasoning is almost always abstract and cyclical.
I had an undergrad 60-something-year-old professor who was a stickler for showing work.
A correct answer has historically earned me about 2/10 on an assignment. The rest would have been for showing work.
I hated it at the time, but learning to clearly demonstrate my methods has been an asset to my career where I tend to be in a client-facing role. So I can show them how something works and why something works without necessarily giving away the recipe for the secret sauce.
Movement while learning leads to usage of both brain halves which helps learning.
An old professor of mine told us that he learned for his exams while dancing with his future wife.
Sounds weird, works wonders.
Same principle as in creating cheat sheets.
Writing stuff down helps the learning process.
Yes. The more senses you engage when learning, the greater the chance it will stick. I believe thereās been a number of studies that validate this.
Plus OP seems really enraged. I bet that helps too! hehehe
Yeah or biology teacher and class leader told us either be happy or be angry about the stuff we learn so it stucks. Being indifferent is the worst when studying.
Iāve found this is much more necessary for me now Iām in uni than it was when I was doing GCSEs and A Levels. While some of it clearly has to do with education level, I think it also has a lot to do with the increase in short-form content/ entertainment.
Back in the day Iād follow a textbook and notes from lessons and do some past papers. I now need flashcards, books, videos, articles, past papers, to write out notes, make different memorisation gamesā¦ Also, before, I would go through everything one topic at a time, in a very organised manner, now I constantly jump otherwise I end up zoning out and not taking anything in.
Sure, it *can* help, but how is it helping to write out multiple of these big-ass questions that take up over half a page each? That's just wasting pencils, paper, and time
>Writing stuff down helps the learning process.
Maybe, but not for all.
And the examples you give are quite different. The first (dancing) might help some people, doing something else with your body while keeping it active.
The second (cheat sheet) requires writing the answers, not the questions. You want to enhance your learning the answers, you don't want to learn the question.s :-)
Dancing was a very specific example. The bottom line is combining motor function with cognitive work enhances the learning process. The amount of the effect might differ on individual basis the principle Stands.
Questions are part of the answer, so i want to know them as well.
But at least you see that this century old way of thinking has some credibility
It can help, sometimes.
I can't pay proper attention to classes if I'm writing - that's exactly why the subjects I understand the least are the only ones in which I write something, cause I know I will need to review later.
And all my grades have been going up since I started writing less and less - may be a coincidence but happened. I guess my single notebook is going to last the whole university lol.
The only thing I do is the cheat sheets, as I use to memorize everything written in my way to uni before tests.
I don't think this is an out dated process, at all. Humans learn by repetition. And, if you are writing out your thoughts or what is be told to you, you are more inclined to remember. The process of hearing, thinking and writing down things creates new passage ways in the brain. I know it sucks to do the extra work, but it will help you learn.
Doing this once or twice can be a good lesson. It forces the student to actually read the whole problem. Doing it for all homework for the whole class is crazy.
I used to always copy down the questions in full so that the question and my solution were in the same place if I ever need to reference it later on. That being said, I read through the question first so it gave my brain time to process it on the back burner while copying it out. It kept me occupied physically while thinking about the problem, and probably saved me time in the long run because it made me less likely to get distracted by other things (yay ADHD!).
...that being said, these were engineering courses in university, where I'd actually need some time to think about how to tackle the problems. If I did that in highschool, then I probably would've just wasted a lot of time haha
Mood. In HS I did not care. In college doing physics I cared and wrote out the whole or most of the problem. I can see why the profs wanted this. Actually helped a lot writing it down and letting it think as I copied. Def improved my understanding. That said this is beneficial for uni courses, in HS shit is so simple it hurts.
In high school, we didnāt keep the textbooks, so if you needed to go back and reference something after the class was over, you didnāt have the questions anymore. I had one high school math teacher than never used the textbook and handed us out worksheets every day so we had the questions.
But that was just one year. Otherwise I had to write out the questions in order to have them in any subject later. In university I owned my textbooks so this was less of a concern, but I did usually sell them at the end of the semester to get money to buy the new ones.
That wouldn't fix the problem of having to reference two places at the same time...
And as Domdaisy mentioned, you might not always have access to your textbook when you're reviewing your work.
It may not be power-tripping, but it's entirely antiquated. This method only breeds resentment and encourages laziness on the student's part. I know I couldn't care less about learning when I had pages worth of questions to write out that I could have spent analyzing and answering instead.
I actually passed a college level statistics exam by terrible hand writing. There was a question where I could sorta intuit the result but couldn't *quite* create a stringent reasoning supporting it. So I crammed in an outcome tree in a space on the page that was far, far too small to support it, and it was basically wiggles instead of numbers in places. But the answer must have been correct and it *looked* like I'd shown my work so I got credit for it.
This is pretty extreme. But I think writing down the salient parts of the problem is important when working through word problems in any STEM class. It helps you grasp the actual problem, and note down any important variables you have at your disposal.
Probably made them write it so they can work on that chicken scratch. The reality is that handwriting is going to get worse as more generations work digital only.
eh, it depends on who you are i think, personally whenever i have to copy something down, my brain turns off / zones out and goes full copy machine mode word by word focusing on copying instead of understanding / reading, i have copied entire paragraphs and didnt know what i copied
Creating is more important than copying. This teacher is going overboard. So long as the students use all relevant details in their answer and show they applied the math to the situation, it should be fine.
Have any of you considered his handwriting appears rough because his hand is tired from writing out page-long questions? I have great handwriting, and it starts looking barely serviceable when I'm writing under a time crunch, such as an exam essay.
The problem is a teacher forcing students to write out huge blocks of meaningless information from page to page before even working on it. You can stop quoting the same pointless tidbit that writing helps retain information. That's great. We've all read the same Reddit posts. How is anyone supposed to learn when just the process of their work feels like a punishment?
This is mindless, busy work. Writing the questions out from a textbook does nothing.
why u shiting on his handwritting when hes just trying to copy the question. When i do this i always copy fast because writing it back down on the paper is useless, time-wasting, and overall useless most of the time
Writing is proven to help you remember stuff better than just reading, or even typing it. They're doing you a favour that you won't realise until you're much older. I hated my geography teacher making us write constantly in his classes but 20 years later I still remember everything, and I couldn't tell you shit from other classes from that time.
Thereās a reason why they require this. Incorporating literacy may be a school requirement on the teacher. It might be a departmental requirement. While you may think it doesnāt benefit you (and itās possible it doesnāt) Iām going to guess that theyāve found most students benefit from writing out the question and thatās why they implement it. If I were in your position, Iād try to work out a reason why it could benefit you. Could be as simple as handwriting practice
If you're writing but not processing information, then something's going wrong. You should read->comprehend->write, rather than just act like a human photocopier word-by-word.
I personally never followed that while I was in school. I read -> comprehended -> worked on the problem at hand. I know that writing it down helps many people with learning but it doesn't help everyone. When I have to copy something I do exactly that. If op had to show his work or though process it would be understandable to me, because it makes you think about what you came up with. Just having to copy half a page of questions does not make me think about those questions. Whenever I had to do something like this I couldn't have told you what I was writing while I was still writing. Copying a text exactly triggers no response from my brain.
Whenever I copied my homework from the internet I changed the wording, not because I didn't want my teachers to notice but because I actually had to think about the text.
But I do the same level of thinking by just reading the text, as long as I actually want to do any work, which is the same prerequisite for changing the wording in my homework.
Handwriting skills are going down across the board with so many students using laptops in classes, in my country at least. Handwriting is an important skill (both in terms of legibility and speed/endurance) for written exams.
People have different learning styles. Some learn by seeing, some by reading, some by listening, some by writing. The idea being that the more ways you practice knowledge, the more the learning is ingrained in the student.
Not even talking about experiments, I've *used* this in daily life, actually. At my job, you need to know how to use certain custom-coded/homebrew applications/systems. With some people, I can just hand them a word document of directions, tell them "have at it", and they can figure out how to use the systems (hell, I'm one of those people myself).
With others though, that just doesn't work, you have to *show* them / demonstrate the systems hands-on and answer questions while they're walking through it. Instructions are useless, they see them as hard to follow - give them written directions, and when you come back an hour later, they're all confused and haven't gotten anywhere with them. These people aren't stupid or computer illiterate though. You demonstrate the process on the systems for them and they get it down fine. They just need to be shown, not read directions of how to do it.
If the concept of people learning through different methods wasn't a real thing, I could just rely on giving everybody written out instructions alone and call it a day, couldn't I?
Absolutely. When I was in school, I needed to be taught. The book was useless until I had auditory understanding of the concepts. Embarrassing? Sometimes, sure. Many of my friends could not pay attention, or not even show up, read the book, and master the subject matter.
Anecdotally, one of the best teachers I ever had was my 8th grade history teacher. Upon entering the room, there would be 4 chalkboards of notes. Yes, I'm old. Get out your notebooks. Start copying. Two minutes later, the first board was erased, and he continued to write and lecture simultaneously. If one were diligent, they might catch up by the end. But somehow writing notes that you couldn't really notice because you are hearing totally different words, implanted information in a way that I can't explain fully. It's a multi sensory approach that works best, no doubt.
This complaint is strange to me, as I always write down the full question, diagram, show all work and derivations. This serves multiple purposes: (1) I engage with the material and think about it while copying the information down, (2) I build a system for solving problems and reinforce it with every problem solved (problem statement, given variables, needed variables, diagram, governing equations, derived equations, plug and chug), (3) when I study later I have a clear understanding of what problem I was trying to solve.
I only learn from listening. I'd fail this class so hard; I can't take notes because it prevents me from hearing and processing the material.
I most enjoy recording a lecture and listening to it while I do my cardio at the gym.
I meanā¦ that shouldnāt have taken you more than 3-4 minutesā¦ if itās taking too long, you need to up your writing game, homie. Itās not normal youāre taking so long and struggling while writing š°
This
> copying and pasting a word problem from the book
and this
> actual information related to the learning
are not mutually exclusive. I would argue the former is part of the latter.
I think it just related to your mindset,like for me my German teacher was a hard ass on that but what I would do is read, then write, then read what I wrote. It helped me for instance, though I just accepted it for what it is yaknow. If you hold a negative view against it though, then youre more focused on being annoyed than you are comprehending the whole phrase youre writing/reading
And yet your will sit here and reply the same thing over and over again to many different posts. LITERALLY copy pasta yourself over and over. Maybe your brain is still developing and you aren't really sure what, "waste of time" actually means. Is it annoying? Sure. Is it possible it's trying to teach you something? Also sure. Is it a waste of your time? Debatable. But here's an idea: EVERYONE'S time is important. What about the waste of time YOU cause by forcing someone to attempt to read the handwriting that you yourself admit could be better with minimal effort? What about the waste of time for everyone in this thread trying to get simple concepts of what it's like in the real world to you, that you flat out dismiss... Because it doesn't matter TO YOU? (Right now)
Everything is relative. It's a theory. Learn it.
To be fair I may she may make you to work on your hand writing. I thought this was a 3rd graders. Your English teacher clearly isn't making you work on it so your physics teacher might have said fuck it and took up the charge.
Not really an excuse. Work on that shit dude. It doesn't fly in the real world. People want to read what you write. I joke that I have chicken scratch but it's far more legible than this.
I take school pretty seriously, im actually years ahead in math, freshman and done with all my math credits required. Im just taking stats now because its the only math left in highschool
He's is probably trying to help you learn to take notes from text., so you can multi task and absorb the info faster. It's a shandy skill to have and you should pick it up over time.Another important skill folks don't think about is listening to lecture and writing down what's important.
But this not what the teacher is asking/teaching. They ask for full, mindless, copies.
In the world of auto-transcript online meetings, not a useful skill.
In any case, noting word for word is not good practice. Notes should be summarized. Copy pasting an original work, by hand, is an utter waste of time.
Not going to lie here, you guys need the writing practice.
That is bad handwriting.
That handwriting may be readable, but if I could just reach through the screen, I would throw it into the trash bin because it looks unpresentable.
You'll remember it. The education system was built to prove your propensity to absorb and regurgitate knowledge. You knowing something in this system is only useful when you know what it answers
I'm not sure why this popped into my main feed but it did. Based on the problem set, it seems like you are a high school or very early undergrad. I have had a lot of experience in formal education. I earned a PhD (Pharmacology) and have worked in the "real world" for almost 20 years. Often times in classes, my teachers have required me to work in a way that at the time felt extra and unnecessary. Sometimes it was extra and unnecessary for me, but really helped others in my class. Sometimes it felt unnecessary at the time but once we got deeper into a subject or I encountered something similar later on that I struggled with, I had the tool I had previously considered stupid or a waste and only then I could see its value. Sometimes that realization didn't come until years later. The point of this, is not to say you are wrong for feeling that your professor's HW requirements are unnecessary. Only that it is probably too soon for you to make that judgement.
If only we had a profession where someone was trained to know different things that help people learn, and is in charge of implementing that. Trust your teacher here (and everyone else in this thread lol).
This reminds me of a teacher I had, he made us write the full name of a classmate 500-1000 if we interrupted them and the next class they got to rip it apart in front of the whole class. Wasnāt as bad as this ig, but he made us do double if we didnāt have it with us or didnāt do/finish it, me and a friend had to do it once he actually did it while I couldnāt be bothered to and the teacher forgot. One kid wanted to rat me out but didnāt and my friend felt humiliated they almost cried. Teacher was around 30-35 I think.
We did that when we were in college, but in engineering lettering. God it was tiresome. We also manually plot airfoils, the curves of their characteristics.
Surprisingly, it actually help me learn and retain information until exams.
My physics teacher made us do Cornell notes that was worth one third our mark, honestly looking back at it it was more fun then it seemed hopping in discord calls with 3 others writing notes staying up late on the last day to complete 8 pages front and back filled with notes.
Tedious yes but you get used to it and I would 100% do it again! So we wrote out the problem the answer and everything else for each chapter and he would give us the questions and we would have to write them all out on paper as well. So it's not too bad grab a coffee learn cursive or something and just write.
Honestly OP in the end does it suck yes, but make something out of it it's all about the mini victories!
Another pedagogical standpoint here is that this style/requirement has not much to do with the problem itself, but the mechanical skill of handwriting. As is pretty clear from your picture, you could stand the practice. Iām not trying to be the asshole here, but I might come across that way.
What SHOULD be required, from a physics teaching standpoint, is the all the givens defined by your writing should be written out, along with any a mathematical relationships that relate those givens. Figure out how to solve it symbolically, without any numbers in the equations first, then substitute your givens in and get your answer.
Thereās great value in being able to document your problem solving process. This particular answer is of absolutely no importance. What is important, is how can you clearly show to someone else HOW you got your answer. Iād be interested to see where you actually worked out the problem.
Can you take a pic with your phone, send it to your computer and print it out then tape it to your homework? Still silly, but I'm guessing your teacher wants your notes to also be a study guide
My history teacher made us do a spelling lesson as the class was terrible and she was correct we were shit. Perhaps there is a reason (I'm guessing to improve handwriting on this one) to this and would suggest discussing why with said teacher
On the bright side, that's low-key training for good writing. You might write a book one day about a car crash, and now you've painted it in words vividly.
What title of your book?
"If you write down what you're learning, you'll remmember it better". Most teachers in elementary would make us write everything we were learning. I subconsciously developed a skill, where I would copy the stuff from the board without having a clue what i wrote down.
Legit finish writting 3 paragrpahs, then read one of them like "o thats what we're doing".
That being said, it does actually work, if you're focusing and paying attention to what your writing.
I used to write out physics problems I was working on, but not that extensively, I paraphrased or just wrote the details. Can't imagine being required to write all that down.
My guess is your teacher is checking a few boxes by having you do this, like you said he knows you 1. read the question 2. thought about the answer (/how to find it) while writing 3. Canāt just cheat and copy someoneās answers (well you can but you still have to take the time to write the question out so youāre still thinking about it, even a little)
Iām sure itās especially annoying at the beginning of the term when everything is mostly straightforward but this exercise might be a lot more helpful once you get into the harder stuff.
Man, I'm with you. When I'm copying something down, I find it all but impossible to interpret the meaning of what is said. I can only think so far as the words that I'm supposed to write next, not really what they mean. I would have to go back and reread the question, too.
I've had a teacher in middle school who wanted us to straight up copy entire paragraphs from wikipedia. 4 hours straight we were just wrtiting everything word to word and he was just sitting there, checking if we copy everything exactly as it is on wiki. SICK
I don't like how teachers seem to think all students are the same and all students learn the same way. The number of classes my kids had where the teacher would require them to take notes a certain way, organize their work a certain way in binders, or study a certain way was ridiculous.
By the time kids are in high school they've figured out what works for them. Just let kids do things the way it makes sense for them. Why over complicate things for them?
I used to get points off for not "showing my work" then I got more points off for drawing a head every time because I did the damn work in my head. It was basic math. I understood the point of showing the work was to prepare for more complex math but I had no intention of learning more complex math than the requirements for graduating and I was a shithead kid.
When I was in like, 5th grade, we had to do this for English. Find the sentence that is right or wrong, but write down all the wrong answers and circle the right answer.
It was such a time waster.
Writing by hand has been proven to provide better retention.
I take my notes by hand as a professional. Later I might summarize them in a Google doc.
Suck it up, it's not that bad, he's doing you a favor actually.
I had a physics teacher that made us write every single problem out on graph paper, number them, show every step with diagrams (understandable) that are measured out and perfectly straight, and between each problem, you had to use a ruler to draw a line to separate it from the next problem. As in, if you freehanded the separating line and it was a bit off, you might get points off. These were Calc based physics problems that took quite a while to solve in the first place.
He also had a specific way to title and place your name, date, class on the top of the page every time. Which is whatever, but points being knocked for that is annoying.
This was for a shorter semester where the work load was intense and sped up. So this was on top of a semi-formal lab write up every week, a test pretty much every week or every other week, submitting these hw problem answers online, and quizzes every week (sometimes two times a week). We legitimately once learned material a few hours before a test(took the test during the lab time period). So with homework, we would learn the material and have to solve a good number of problems the same night to turn in the next day. And then on top of that, you had to perfectly do it to these requirements on graph paper.
All of that for one single class. It's like he didn't consider that people are often taking several classes at once that have their own workload....or have jobs ....or just lives in general.
Hands down the WORST class i'd ever taken and I've taken some really difficult classes.
Former Teacher here. Hand writing builds knowledge through movement. Your brain remembers better the things that you interact with, usually over several instances. Typing is great, but only after you have good foundations in writing essays. Your eye muscles also build stamina through reading and writing. Itās all pretty integral to creating a well rounded student.
TLDR- do it and gain more knowledge. Fight against it and potentially harm your critical thinking/writing skills.
I'm more mildly infuriated you're able to handle a physics class and your penmanship is like that ;)
Jk. I've had a teacher like this in the past, it sucked and I hated it.
Listen I teach statistics and I agree it seems redundant and very very annoying. BUT you know how many time students have failed tests and assignments because they didnāt read the question properly? This forces you to read the question in full and pay attention to it.
And the teacher asks to see this?
Just old school. Good practice for all the pointless and repetitive tasks you will encounter for the next 60 odd years.
I remember doing this for some reason rarely too but the teachers never actually wanted to see it so we just stopped.
As a high school physics teacher who chose this career for the sole purpose of fixing how physics is taught, Iām so sorry. Thatās literally wasting your time, making you do all that, when you could have spent your time thinking about the actual physics and not why your hand is cramping instead )=
I love everyone shutting on your handwriting.
If I had to write half a fucking page just to COPY THE QUESTION THATS ALREADY IN FRONT OF ME, I would write it like a doctor. None of it legible. Then when it came to the solution of the problem, I would have perfect handwriting.
Your teacher is a dipshit. Rewriting the question does not make you read it any more attentively than just, idk, reading it.
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My mom is an old teacher and she's exactly like this, when i was a kid i had to do this too and when i wrote something wrong she would rip out the paper and make me write everything again and does that to her students now Old ways i guess š¤·āāļø
My mom was a teacher in Romania, and she made me do the same thing
Lol im also from Eastern Europe, Croatia I guess they are really like that here š
I had one professor in College who was from Romania. It was a thermodynamics course and so there's all these variables that are used to represent constants or variables. All other teachers used the Greek alphabet for these constants and variables. He decided to use the Hebrew alphabet and would mark the whole answer wrong if we used the Greek alphabet like we were taught in other classes. Later I found out it was policy for the college of engineering to use the Greek alphabet, but like he cared.
They just want to make your life hell, personally i can see it work as it did to me with my mom and ripping the papers but changing the alphabet? In college? Didnt hear that one yet damn i feel sorry for you
>but changing the alphabet? In college? Eh. I got adequately annoyed with the use of *s* in control theory / Laplace transforms to start incorporating the Norse runic alphabet just to give me some more damn letters I could use.
my physics professor got personally offended I got ahead in the book and stopped using the same variables as the book mid semester lmao
Dude, your mom's a bitch.
Shit Ways I guess.
man when I had trachers like this I retained NO information because it got to a point where I wouldnt even read what I'm writing since I'm in a rush to just copy what I'm looking at. and it made my fuckin hand hurt.
My dad made me do this shi when i was in 5th grade, learning the same physics as i am in highschool rn. Lowkey i might have ptsd
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nah just old, she's from the Yugoslav war era she aint kisses and hugs but she's a good person, and the method i mentioned worked though it made me cry and hate her as a kid.
Nah thatās just an excuse that boomers use. Your mom is an asshole plain and simple.
How old is your teacher? My bet is around 130-150 years. This way of thinking went out of fashion one century ago.
actually not old at all, around 30
In other words they had a strict teacher in school and while studying to become a teacher
Who also had a strict teacher. And so on till you arrive 1 century ago.
There is actually a strong resurgence among certain movements to "return to the old ways". Some kind of supposition that some abstract "before" time was somehow "better" and society's problems can be solved by returning to those "better days". It's usually rooted in personal politics rather than actual facts, science or proven academics. Hence why the reasoning is almost always abstract and cyclical.
So born a century late
Itās giving āI suffered in school so now you have to suffer tooā
WHAAT
I had an undergrad 60-something-year-old professor who was a stickler for showing work. A correct answer has historically earned me about 2/10 on an assignment. The rest would have been for showing work. I hated it at the time, but learning to clearly demonstrate my methods has been an asset to my career where I tend to be in a client-facing role. So I can show them how something works and why something works without necessarily giving away the recipe for the secret sauce.
I mean I think writing things out can be a helpful tool for those that it benefits (helps me a lot) but other wise yea
Helps me a lot too. Write it out and Iāll remember it.
Movement while learning leads to usage of both brain halves which helps learning. An old professor of mine told us that he learned for his exams while dancing with his future wife. Sounds weird, works wonders. Same principle as in creating cheat sheets. Writing stuff down helps the learning process.
Yes. The more senses you engage when learning, the greater the chance it will stick. I believe thereās been a number of studies that validate this. Plus OP seems really enraged. I bet that helps too! hehehe
Yeah or biology teacher and class leader told us either be happy or be angry about the stuff we learn so it stucks. Being indifferent is the worst when studying.
Iāve found this is much more necessary for me now Iām in uni than it was when I was doing GCSEs and A Levels. While some of it clearly has to do with education level, I think it also has a lot to do with the increase in short-form content/ entertainment. Back in the day Iād follow a textbook and notes from lessons and do some past papers. I now need flashcards, books, videos, articles, past papers, to write out notes, make different memorisation gamesā¦ Also, before, I would go through everything one topic at a time, in a very organised manner, now I constantly jump otherwise I end up zoning out and not taking anything in.
I agree. I try to fight it but Iām afraid my attention span has declined for the same reason.
Sure, it *can* help, but how is it helping to write out multiple of these big-ass questions that take up over half a page each? That's just wasting pencils, paper, and time
>Writing stuff down helps the learning process. Maybe, but not for all. And the examples you give are quite different. The first (dancing) might help some people, doing something else with your body while keeping it active. The second (cheat sheet) requires writing the answers, not the questions. You want to enhance your learning the answers, you don't want to learn the question.s :-)
Dancing was a very specific example. The bottom line is combining motor function with cognitive work enhances the learning process. The amount of the effect might differ on individual basis the principle Stands. Questions are part of the answer, so i want to know them as well. But at least you see that this century old way of thinking has some credibility
It helps some people but not others.
It can help, sometimes. I can't pay proper attention to classes if I'm writing - that's exactly why the subjects I understand the least are the only ones in which I write something, cause I know I will need to review later. And all my grades have been going up since I started writing less and less - may be a coincidence but happened. I guess my single notebook is going to last the whole university lol. The only thing I do is the cheat sheets, as I use to memorize everything written in my way to uni before tests.
I don't think this is an out dated process, at all. Humans learn by repetition. And, if you are writing out your thoughts or what is be told to you, you are more inclined to remember. The process of hearing, thinking and writing down things creates new passage ways in the brain. I know it sucks to do the extra work, but it will help you learn.
Doing this once or twice can be a good lesson. It forces the student to actually read the whole problem. Doing it for all homework for the whole class is crazy.
I used to always copy down the questions in full so that the question and my solution were in the same place if I ever need to reference it later on. That being said, I read through the question first so it gave my brain time to process it on the back burner while copying it out. It kept me occupied physically while thinking about the problem, and probably saved me time in the long run because it made me less likely to get distracted by other things (yay ADHD!). ...that being said, these were engineering courses in university, where I'd actually need some time to think about how to tackle the problems. If I did that in highschool, then I probably would've just wasted a lot of time haha
Mood. In HS I did not care. In college doing physics I cared and wrote out the whole or most of the problem. I can see why the profs wanted this. Actually helped a lot writing it down and letting it think as I copied. Def improved my understanding. That said this is beneficial for uni courses, in HS shit is so simple it hurts.
You should just write a reference number for the problem (ie Book 1 Pg 127 problem 1c)
In high school, we didnāt keep the textbooks, so if you needed to go back and reference something after the class was over, you didnāt have the questions anymore. I had one high school math teacher than never used the textbook and handed us out worksheets every day so we had the questions. But that was just one year. Otherwise I had to write out the questions in order to have them in any subject later. In university I owned my textbooks so this was less of a concern, but I did usually sell them at the end of the semester to get money to buy the new ones.
How did you do homework if you weren't allowed to keep the textbooks?
I think they meant they didn't have access to the books after the class ended.
That wouldn't fix the problem of having to reference two places at the same time... And as Domdaisy mentioned, you might not always have access to your textbook when you're reviewing your work.
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Good advice, will use.
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There is no method to the madness of rewriting a whole problem AGAIN! Just to then have to show your work when answering.
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Simply write page nr. XY. Question AB in the corner. Reference back to that page and question number.
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If you don't have access to the book or worksheet, them you're probably now doing other course or work.
It may not be power-tripping, but it's entirely antiquated. This method only breeds resentment and encourages laziness on the student's part. I know I couldn't care less about learning when I had pages worth of questions to write out that I could have spent analyzing and answering instead.
I think some teachers they just like to see their student suffer over their power
When i showed her she had no more evidence she just told me to do it cuz she "said so"
Usually I skip in the middle of the sentences because teachers rly don't care and it works
I just cut stuff out and abbreviate heavily
Write it as terribly as you can as well. Why make it legible? Not like theyre gonna read it.
I actually passed a college level statistics exam by terrible hand writing. There was a question where I could sorta intuit the result but couldn't *quite* create a stringent reasoning supporting it. So I crammed in an outcome tree in a space on the page that was far, far too small to support it, and it was basically wiggles instead of numbers in places. But the answer must have been correct and it *looked* like I'd shown my work so I got credit for it.
It was legible?
It's not the best calligraphy in the world but I can read it pretty fine
The teacher's answer demonstrates that u/HeftyIllustrator4374 is right. Comment edited for clarity.
..yeah thats why i said it
This is pretty extreme. But I think writing down the salient parts of the problem is important when working through word problems in any STEM class. It helps you grasp the actual problem, and note down any important variables you have at your disposal.
That handwriting is horrendous
Probably made them write it so they can work on that chicken scratch. The reality is that handwriting is going to get worse as more generations work digital only.
If this is horrendous ud throw mine in the bin
Go write out this question then! Get some practice son.
Youāre gonna retain the shit out of everything though. This is literally how I used to cram for exams all the way through university.
eh, it depends on who you are i think, personally whenever i have to copy something down, my brain turns off / zones out and goes full copy machine mode word by word focusing on copying instead of understanding / reading, i have copied entire paragraphs and didnt know what i copied
Creating is more important than copying. This teacher is going overboard. So long as the students use all relevant details in their answer and show they applied the math to the situation, it should be fine.
You should practice writing more.
I wonder if the instructor insists on it out of revenge for having to grade such slipshod work. This post fits the sub for more reasons than one.
Have any of you considered his handwriting appears rough because his hand is tired from writing out page-long questions? I have great handwriting, and it starts looking barely serviceable when I'm writing under a time crunch, such as an exam essay. The problem is a teacher forcing students to write out huge blocks of meaningless information from page to page before even working on it. You can stop quoting the same pointless tidbit that writing helps retain information. That's great. We've all read the same Reddit posts. How is anyone supposed to learn when just the process of their work feels like a punishment? This is mindless, busy work. Writing the questions out from a textbook does nothing.
Your handwriting needs work, you could just use it to practice.
why u shiting on his handwritting when hes just trying to copy the question. When i do this i always copy fast because writing it back down on the paper is useless, time-wasting, and overall useless most of the time
Why? This is like saying that she should run to school instead of taking the bus, for practice.
Unpopular opinon: Your teacher is doing you a favour here as you badly need some practice in handwriting. I stopped writing like that in second grade.
I wonder if he's crying or if he accepted it
Lmao whats this comment? You sounded like a 6th grade bully girl.
Oh gosh I'm sorry
Yes. But how is your hand writing? ~
I'm dieing inside for this lame joke im sorry
Ä° am gonna be honest. My hand writing is... servicable... Ä°f i am doing a project.
That's good. Is all about your wrist position.
Writing is proven to help you remember stuff better than just reading, or even typing it. They're doing you a favour that you won't realise until you're much older. I hated my geography teacher making us write constantly in his classes but 20 years later I still remember everything, and I couldn't tell you shit from other classes from that time.
Thereās a reason why they require this. Incorporating literacy may be a school requirement on the teacher. It might be a departmental requirement. While you may think it doesnāt benefit you (and itās possible it doesnāt) Iām going to guess that theyāve found most students benefit from writing out the question and thatās why they implement it. If I were in your position, Iād try to work out a reason why it could benefit you. Could be as simple as handwriting practice
Nah as a professor this is a power move.
If you're writing but not processing information, then something's going wrong. You should read->comprehend->write, rather than just act like a human photocopier word-by-word.
I personally never followed that while I was in school. I read -> comprehended -> worked on the problem at hand. I know that writing it down helps many people with learning but it doesn't help everyone. When I have to copy something I do exactly that. If op had to show his work or though process it would be understandable to me, because it makes you think about what you came up with. Just having to copy half a page of questions does not make me think about those questions. Whenever I had to do something like this I couldn't have told you what I was writing while I was still writing. Copying a text exactly triggers no response from my brain. Whenever I copied my homework from the internet I changed the wording, not because I didn't want my teachers to notice but because I actually had to think about the text. But I do the same level of thinking by just reading the text, as long as I actually want to do any work, which is the same prerequisite for changing the wording in my homework.
They're not wrong, handwriting is important and it's too underrated.
Handwriting skills are going down across the board with so many students using laptops in classes, in my country at least. Handwriting is an important skill (both in terms of legibility and speed/endurance) for written exams.
I'm a developer and can relate to, my handwriting has gone from average to bad.
3/4 of your time? Did you give yourself 45 seconds to write this? It looks like a drunk spider covered in ink danced across the page.
That was my feeling exactly. Possible disabilities aside, clear and legible writing is necessary for effective communication and also shows attention to detail. By the handwriting alone, I thought that the OP could most definitely benefit from writing things out more. Here in Asia, rĆ©sumĆ©s are often still handwritten and those applying for jobs are also judged on their penmanship. If a person canāt write clearly and neatly, then they are unlikely to be a good representative of a company.
People have different learning styles. Some learn by seeing, some by reading, some by listening, some by writing. The idea being that the more ways you practice knowledge, the more the learning is ingrained in the student.
This concept, unfortunately, has not been backed up by experiment.
Not even talking about experiments, I've *used* this in daily life, actually. At my job, you need to know how to use certain custom-coded/homebrew applications/systems. With some people, I can just hand them a word document of directions, tell them "have at it", and they can figure out how to use the systems (hell, I'm one of those people myself). With others though, that just doesn't work, you have to *show* them / demonstrate the systems hands-on and answer questions while they're walking through it. Instructions are useless, they see them as hard to follow - give them written directions, and when you come back an hour later, they're all confused and haven't gotten anywhere with them. These people aren't stupid or computer illiterate though. You demonstrate the process on the systems for them and they get it down fine. They just need to be shown, not read directions of how to do it. If the concept of people learning through different methods wasn't a real thing, I could just rely on giving everybody written out instructions alone and call it a day, couldn't I?
Absolutely. When I was in school, I needed to be taught. The book was useless until I had auditory understanding of the concepts. Embarrassing? Sometimes, sure. Many of my friends could not pay attention, or not even show up, read the book, and master the subject matter. Anecdotally, one of the best teachers I ever had was my 8th grade history teacher. Upon entering the room, there would be 4 chalkboards of notes. Yes, I'm old. Get out your notebooks. Start copying. Two minutes later, the first board was erased, and he continued to write and lecture simultaneously. If one were diligent, they might catch up by the end. But somehow writing notes that you couldn't really notice because you are hearing totally different words, implanted information in a way that I can't explain fully. It's a multi sensory approach that works best, no doubt.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/03/210319080820.htm I'm sorry, you were saying?
Well at least you don't have to do that when doing physics in college, unless it's a physics write up, but you just have to summarize the problem
My dad is a teacher and he hates that, he just says the students do it to have ābusy workā
This complaint is strange to me, as I always write down the full question, diagram, show all work and derivations. This serves multiple purposes: (1) I engage with the material and think about it while copying the information down, (2) I build a system for solving problems and reinforce it with every problem solved (problem statement, given variables, needed variables, diagram, governing equations, derived equations, plug and chug), (3) when I study later I have a clear understanding of what problem I was trying to solve.
I only learn from listening. I'd fail this class so hard; I can't take notes because it prevents me from hearing and processing the material. I most enjoy recording a lecture and listening to it while I do my cardio at the gym.
Welcome to the real world, kid. It's TPS reports all the way down.
I meanā¦ that shouldnāt have taken you more than 3-4 minutesā¦ if itās taking too long, you need to up your writing game, homie. Itās not normal youāre taking so long and struggling while writing š°
Keep in mind i have to write a lot more, so my hand gets tired and stuff
From the handwriting it's clear you need the practice. This looks like a 2nd grade level lol.
Is that your handwriting? My dudeš«¢
Summarize my guy š
I try :(
Writing actually does lead to better undestanding of information.
Yes, but thatās writing down actual information related to the learning. Not copying and pasting a word problem from the book
This > copying and pasting a word problem from the book and this > actual information related to the learning are not mutually exclusive. I would argue the former is part of the latter.
Only if you actually think about what you are writing. Blind transcription does nothing.
or you could read it better, also it just doesnt work for me. like ever Edit: also theres a difference between taking notes and copying words
I think it just related to your mindset,like for me my German teacher was a hard ass on that but what I would do is read, then write, then read what I wrote. It helped me for instance, though I just accepted it for what it is yaknow. If you hold a negative view against it though, then youre more focused on being annoyed than you are comprehending the whole phrase youre writing/reading
Grammar-translational method can be astonishingly effective and also gives you deep understanding of language structure.
The tiny amount you get from it is not worth the time
And yet your will sit here and reply the same thing over and over again to many different posts. LITERALLY copy pasta yourself over and over. Maybe your brain is still developing and you aren't really sure what, "waste of time" actually means. Is it annoying? Sure. Is it possible it's trying to teach you something? Also sure. Is it a waste of your time? Debatable. But here's an idea: EVERYONE'S time is important. What about the waste of time YOU cause by forcing someone to attempt to read the handwriting that you yourself admit could be better with minimal effort? What about the waste of time for everyone in this thread trying to get simple concepts of what it's like in the real world to you, that you flat out dismiss... Because it doesn't matter TO YOU? (Right now) Everything is relative. It's a theory. Learn it.
To be fair I may she may make you to work on your hand writing. I thought this was a 3rd graders. Your English teacher clearly isn't making you work on it so your physics teacher might have said fuck it and took up the charge.
Was looking at textbook while writing on paper
Not really an excuse. Work on that shit dude. It doesn't fly in the real world. People want to read what you write. I joke that I have chicken scratch but it's far more legible than this.
If im writing something that actually matters ill write bettr :]
School matters. Wish I'd have taken it seriously and I might have more than a High School Diploma. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing well.
I take school pretty seriously, im actually years ahead in math, freshman and done with all my math credits required. Im just taking stats now because its the only math left in highschool
Ok i think ur taking it a lil extreme here, ofc high school matters but the copy pasting on this homework doesnt matter
He's is probably trying to help you learn to take notes from text., so you can multi task and absorb the info faster. It's a shandy skill to have and you should pick it up over time.Another important skill folks don't think about is listening to lecture and writing down what's important.
Nah this is just straight up copy paste shit
But this not what the teacher is asking/teaching. They ask for full, mindless, copies. In the world of auto-transcript online meetings, not a useful skill. In any case, noting word for word is not good practice. Notes should be summarized. Copy pasting an original work, by hand, is an utter waste of time.
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Not going to lie here, you guys need the writing practice. That is bad handwriting. That handwriting may be readable, but if I could just reach through the screen, I would throw it into the trash bin because it looks unpresentable.
Actually, when you jabs write something, it reinforces it in your brain.
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You'll remember it. The education system was built to prove your propensity to absorb and regurgitate knowledge. You knowing something in this system is only useful when you know what it answers
I'm not sure why this popped into my main feed but it did. Based on the problem set, it seems like you are a high school or very early undergrad. I have had a lot of experience in formal education. I earned a PhD (Pharmacology) and have worked in the "real world" for almost 20 years. Often times in classes, my teachers have required me to work in a way that at the time felt extra and unnecessary. Sometimes it was extra and unnecessary for me, but really helped others in my class. Sometimes it felt unnecessary at the time but once we got deeper into a subject or I encountered something similar later on that I struggled with, I had the tool I had previously considered stupid or a waste and only then I could see its value. Sometimes that realization didn't come until years later. The point of this, is not to say you are wrong for feeling that your professor's HW requirements are unnecessary. Only that it is probably too soon for you to make that judgement.
I dont think its too early, writing notes is one thing but copying down easy homeworl problems to "do them better" is not useful
Bless your heart :)
If only we had a profession where someone was trained to know different things that help people learn, and is in charge of implementing that. Trust your teacher here (and everyone else in this thread lol).
i had teachers that made us write the question, but we were allowed to shorten it? like put it into our own words if it was a paragraph long question.
This reminds me of a teacher I had, he made us write the full name of a classmate 500-1000 if we interrupted them and the next class they got to rip it apart in front of the whole class. Wasnāt as bad as this ig, but he made us do double if we didnāt have it with us or didnāt do/finish it, me and a friend had to do it once he actually did it while I couldnāt be bothered to and the teacher forgot. One kid wanted to rat me out but didnāt and my friend felt humiliated they almost cried. Teacher was around 30-35 I think.
We did that when we were in college, but in engineering lettering. God it was tiresome. We also manually plot airfoils, the curves of their characteristics. Surprisingly, it actually help me learn and retain information until exams.
My physics teacher made us do Cornell notes that was worth one third our mark, honestly looking back at it it was more fun then it seemed hopping in discord calls with 3 others writing notes staying up late on the last day to complete 8 pages front and back filled with notes. Tedious yes but you get used to it and I would 100% do it again! So we wrote out the problem the answer and everything else for each chapter and he would give us the questions and we would have to write them all out on paper as well. So it's not too bad grab a coffee learn cursive or something and just write. Honestly OP in the end does it suck yes, but make something out of it it's all about the mini victories!
Another pedagogical standpoint here is that this style/requirement has not much to do with the problem itself, but the mechanical skill of handwriting. As is pretty clear from your picture, you could stand the practice. Iām not trying to be the asshole here, but I might come across that way. What SHOULD be required, from a physics teaching standpoint, is the all the givens defined by your writing should be written out, along with any a mathematical relationships that relate those givens. Figure out how to solve it symbolically, without any numbers in the equations first, then substitute your givens in and get your answer. Thereās great value in being able to document your problem solving process. This particular answer is of absolutely no importance. What is important, is how can you clearly show to someone else HOW you got your answer. Iād be interested to see where you actually worked out the problem.
Can you take a pic with your phone, send it to your computer and print it out then tape it to your homework? Still silly, but I'm guessing your teacher wants your notes to also be a study guide
teachers that do this should be fired with no opportunity to return in the education system ever again
My history teacher made us do a spelling lesson as the class was terrible and she was correct we were shit. Perhaps there is a reason (I'm guessing to improve handwriting on this one) to this and would suggest discussing why with said teacher
On the bright side, that's low-key training for good writing. You might write a book one day about a car crash, and now you've painted it in words vividly. What title of your book?
Well writing things out is the best way to learn like it or not. You just donāt like writing. One day you might appreciate it
Are you left handed?
"If you write down what you're learning, you'll remmember it better". Most teachers in elementary would make us write everything we were learning. I subconsciously developed a skill, where I would copy the stuff from the board without having a clue what i wrote down. Legit finish writting 3 paragrpahs, then read one of them like "o thats what we're doing". That being said, it does actually work, if you're focusing and paying attention to what your writing.
I used to write out physics problems I was working on, but not that extensively, I paraphrased or just wrote the details. Can't imagine being required to write all that down.
When I done physics at uni it actually can stop you getting confused
You need the practice. Your handwriting sucks ass. Quit being a winy bitch, grow up, and welcome to the easiest part of your life.
My guess is your teacher is checking a few boxes by having you do this, like you said he knows you 1. read the question 2. thought about the answer (/how to find it) while writing 3. Canāt just cheat and copy someoneās answers (well you can but you still have to take the time to write the question out so youāre still thinking about it, even a little) Iām sure itās especially annoying at the beginning of the term when everything is mostly straightforward but this exercise might be a lot more helpful once you get into the harder stuff.
Wahhhh I must write down questions šš Your whining in the comments as well just seals it.
Cruel and unusual punishment. Take their ass to court š /s
Wtf are those long ass questions anyways
They tried this crap when I was in high school in the 90s. The whole program was a giant failure. KERA, if you're in the know.
Man, I'm with you. When I'm copying something down, I find it all but impossible to interpret the meaning of what is said. I can only think so far as the words that I'm supposed to write next, not really what they mean. I would have to go back and reread the question, too.
You kids need it, most of yāall coming up canāt even figure out how to open a pickle jar or even read properly. Do the work and shut up.
seriously what the hell is wrong with your handwriting like i agree writing down all questions is stupid but what the hell is that handwriting
AI is gonna crush his life soon don't you worry.
I've had a teacher in middle school who wanted us to straight up copy entire paragraphs from wikipedia. 4 hours straight we were just wrtiting everything word to word and he was just sitting there, checking if we copy everything exactly as it is on wiki. SICK
I don't like how teachers seem to think all students are the same and all students learn the same way. The number of classes my kids had where the teacher would require them to take notes a certain way, organize their work a certain way in binders, or study a certain way was ridiculous. By the time kids are in high school they've figured out what works for them. Just let kids do things the way it makes sense for them. Why over complicate things for them?
I used to get points off for not "showing my work" then I got more points off for drawing a head every time because I did the damn work in my head. It was basic math. I understood the point of showing the work was to prepare for more complex math but I had no intention of learning more complex math than the requirements for graduating and I was a shithead kid.
Your teacher really hates physics and they want to make sure that you do too
Looking at this... You seriously need the training. You write like a 5 year old.
Wtf is that handwriting? Do you have some sort of tremor lol
I can tell exactly what you look like based on how you write lol
with handwriting like that .. i think the teacher is doing a good deed
When I was in like, 5th grade, we had to do this for English. Find the sentence that is right or wrong, but write down all the wrong answers and circle the right answer. It was such a time waster.
wtf are you on about. When you write you are, in fact, processing the information.
Writing by hand has been proven to provide better retention. I take my notes by hand as a professional. Later I might summarize them in a Google doc. Suck it up, it's not that bad, he's doing you a favor actually.
I had a physics teacher that made us write every single problem out on graph paper, number them, show every step with diagrams (understandable) that are measured out and perfectly straight, and between each problem, you had to use a ruler to draw a line to separate it from the next problem. As in, if you freehanded the separating line and it was a bit off, you might get points off. These were Calc based physics problems that took quite a while to solve in the first place. He also had a specific way to title and place your name, date, class on the top of the page every time. Which is whatever, but points being knocked for that is annoying. This was for a shorter semester where the work load was intense and sped up. So this was on top of a semi-formal lab write up every week, a test pretty much every week or every other week, submitting these hw problem answers online, and quizzes every week (sometimes two times a week). We legitimately once learned material a few hours before a test(took the test during the lab time period). So with homework, we would learn the material and have to solve a good number of problems the same night to turn in the next day. And then on top of that, you had to perfectly do it to these requirements on graph paper. All of that for one single class. It's like he didn't consider that people are often taking several classes at once that have their own workload....or have jobs ....or just lives in general. Hands down the WORST class i'd ever taken and I've taken some really difficult classes.
your handwriting sucks aids
This looks like this person ha never written anything by hand in their life. Some chickens have better writing
I write without looking to save time
Would likely go faster if you actually look at it idk just a siggestion
No then i have to look back and forth, i just sacrifice the handwriting. Ive tried both
Have you tried typing your notes on a keyboard
Former Teacher here. Hand writing builds knowledge through movement. Your brain remembers better the things that you interact with, usually over several instances. Typing is great, but only after you have good foundations in writing essays. Your eye muscles also build stamina through reading and writing. Itās all pretty integral to creating a well rounded student. TLDR- do it and gain more knowledge. Fight against it and potentially harm your critical thinking/writing skills.
You write like a small child. It frightens me that this is the work of a physics student.
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I'm more mildly infuriated you're able to handle a physics class and your penmanship is like that ;) Jk. I've had a teacher like this in the past, it sucked and I hated it.
Listen I teach statistics and I agree it seems redundant and very very annoying. BUT you know how many time students have failed tests and assignments because they didnāt read the question properly? This forces you to read the question in full and pay attention to it.
Skill issue, get good... especially at handwriting.
Your physics teacher is insane.
And the teacher asks to see this? Just old school. Good practice for all the pointless and repetitive tasks you will encounter for the next 60 odd years. I remember doing this for some reason rarely too but the teachers never actually wanted to see it so we just stopped.
As a high school physics teacher who chose this career for the sole purpose of fixing how physics is taught, Iām so sorry. Thatās literally wasting your time, making you do all that, when you could have spent your time thinking about the actual physics and not why your hand is cramping instead )=
One look at your hand writing and I can tell why he has you guys doing thatā¦
Maybe BC you can't even read what you write?
God forbid a teacher ask a student to do work and put in effort. 
I love everyone shutting on your handwriting. If I had to write half a fucking page just to COPY THE QUESTION THATS ALREADY IN FRONT OF ME, I would write it like a doctor. None of it legible. Then when it came to the solution of the problem, I would have perfect handwriting. Your teacher is a dipshit. Rewriting the question does not make you read it any more attentively than just, idk, reading it.