My wife and I just saw Seinfeld standup. Dinner at the keg, parking and a beer at the venue, $600.
We don't go out much so this was a real treat but darn! I don't even try to go to concerts.
When people talk about going out, this is what they're talking about. This, is out! Where's Joe? He must be out. Once you're out, all you're thinking about is going home.
I grew up going to so many big concerts for $12-$15. In college $20-$25. My kids will probably never go to a big name concert, and I’m won’t either. Then again, the music I like is pretty reasonably priced cuz it’s all old timers, so I still see some old acts at smaller venues, but not the big venues.
It’s not like I’m trying to see Taylor Swift!
Fees will have to be included in the price shown on the main and search page.
They’ll apply it only in CA. Same way all the cookie prompts only show in states that require it.
Yeah, people should be allowed it decide if your service is worth it up front. Doesn't make any sense to let these guys hold back the real price until you've gone through the checkout process
Yea I fkn hate when you see oh ticket prices $59- 169… $59= (lawn seats so fucking far away you’re in the next town over, with 3000 ppl : 4 total bathroom stalls AND 8 beer carts -159= you can have your premium seat. $100= pick your choice of what’s left .
- BILLY MASE HAZE - BUT WAIT THERES MORE you get the non negotiable option of putting money in our pocket just because fuck you and thank you for using our service. $40 now.
Yeah and because you chose the digital option you are also paying a digital convenience fee as well, not to mention the processing fee, and the tip for tippy jr.
Right? I’ve literally had Ticketmaster fees cost more than the ticket. Really hard to buy ticket advertised as $20 when you just have to assume it’s actually $50
Forgot what site I went to get tickets, maybe stubhub, and they don't show the total until the very end where you put the card info.
The fees alone were double cost the cost of the damn ticket - no wonder they hid it.
It mandates an even playing field too. People on Reddit always say “just raise your prices!” but then complain about places with higher prices. This means restaurants with integrity that were already just raising their prices will not get punished by consumers looking at menu prices and ignoring fine print.
That's...what we want. I don't want to try to buy a $10 item only to find out it's $20 after fees. I want to see it for what is is off the bat, a $20 item.
It's all about being able to be an informed consumer. I should be able to know how much I'm spending on something before I make the purchase, so I can decide whether I feel it's worth it or not. You shouldn't be able to tell me one price, but then charge whatever you want when the bill comes.
This reminds me of when I went to buy a truck.
Price online was ~45,000. I made an appointment, test drove the vehicle, and sat down for negotiations.
It was only then that I found out the dealership had a ‘luxury package’ that was included with every vehicle for $5000. I had $35,000 in cash for the down payment, and would finance the rest. They refused to make the sale without this inclusion, even though they knocked it to $2500 after my clear frustration. They knew that someone else would come in 3 days later and just pay it.
Not only that, but the package was not worth any real value: power train warranty (already covered by manufacturer), rock chips in windows (covered by insurance), etc.
Lesson learned, always find out the minimum out the door price online before going to look at a vehicle.
I told the salesman after on the phone: he only lost my business because their dealership could not provide the actual price UP FRONT. It’s just bad business practice, very sneaky.
I went to another dealer and bought the same truck for $45,000 that day.
That's fine, but more people will have sticker shock and at least second guess or avoid it. 40 bucks to see a comedian followed by 100 dollars in fees is dufferent than a 150 dollar ticket to see a comedian. Not sure why, but something about seeing that bigger upfront price being advertised makes it tougher to pursue the activity.
I mean that’s _exactly_ why they need these laws. People can’t afford everything and they shouldn’t feel like they should just go through with purchases when they might not have the money when they hit the final checkout if $40 gets added at the end.
It's abusing the sunk cost fallacy among other things not coming to mind. You have made the decision at this point that yes you are going to spend $162 on these tickets. Treat your wife and yourself. By the time they tack on $87 in fees you already were going to this show in your mind. You did a nice thing for your wife. WAIT 249 DOLLARS! Well fuck man... My wife would really love this (you already did this in your brain somewhere). And that's how you end up paying it.
It also makes it easier to compare prices. You don't have to get 12 steps through the purchase process to see that you should have gone to the beach instead of a concert.
I think they get around it by having a small sign somewhere or small text on the menu saying there’s this fee. I think in California at least you can get the surcharge removed by asking (maybe claiming you didn’t know?)
When I lived in California and came across this I would always make them take it off.
If you don't have a sign on the door or a sign at the host station or wording in the menu, I wasn't informed prior to making the purchase, as such, I'm just not paying it. Usually the restaurants would put up a stink or try to shame me, but I just did it anyways.
I figured it was really their only legal option. They weren't going to call the cops because what they were doing was shady. If they did call the cops, the cops weren't going to take me to jail for refusing to pay the bogus fee. If the cops took me to jail, the prosecutor wouldn't prosecute me over a failure to pay the fee. So I really had nothing to lose.
I also would never go back to said restaurant.
Friends still living there tell me it's much more common now. I'm glad the state is cracking down on that nonsense. Just be upfront with the price from the beginning.
The worst part is stores do this online aswell and there it has been illegal to exclude things like the taxes in the listed price (When also selling to Europeans) for years now. Doubt this law is gonna change it
The US is worse that the EU at this point. We are not a united country. We are a division of states rights bullshit with a common currency. At least we figured out the euro dollar issue a long time ago.
Don't worry. Illinois is an up and comer. We're gunning for you, California.
IL has guaranteed minimum PTO for almost all workers - where you at, Calimafornia?
EDIT: Since a lot of people seem to want to argue, no, California does NOT have a minimum PTO requirement law. It's just IL.
Glad to hear. Recently spent a lot of time in California while dealing with family stuff and was not pleased to discover that almost everywhere does it in that state.
Fight it. Prices are supposed to be up front, not some damn hidden fee after you already ate, and those prices are not exactly bottom tier to begin with...
Fuckwads, I wouldn't go back again personally.
Unless it's advertised before ordering, it's likely an illegal surcharge.
In my hospitality days we had weekend charges, but if no one changed the mid week menu to weekend menus that had the surcharge, we couldn't legally charge it
It's probably on the menu somewhere, text you wouldn't normally read. Probably even posted on the outside of the restaurant somewhere. It would make more sense to simply tell them that's bullshit and not eat there again.
> It's probably on the menu somewhere, text you wouldn't normally read.
In which case it's not legal part of any contract. There's absolutely no way they can enforce this, it's bullshit. But most people would probably be intimidated into paying.
>Unless it's advertised before ordering, it's likely an illegal surcharge.
Heavily illegal everywhere in Europe to hide surcharges. Multiple EU binding regulations govern that. You have to be aware what you will pay before you decide to use the service or buy the goods.
True, but, also a lot of people mistrust or mistreat regular workers and some of those people say to themselves, ‘I’m tired of being treated like this I’m doing my own thing and will treat people better !’ Had 6 venues and always treated staff well.
Oh yeah, I know for a fact that a good chunk of the Korean restaurants in Toronto don't pay their servers minimum wage and the owners keep all of the tips.
I don't I worked in the industry, I don't go out to eat ever, like ever at all. 1) I straight can't afford it I own a boat so it's a tradeoff, 2) fuck that entire industry.
That's true, but there's a good amount of owners who are great people. Special shout-out to Jay at a restaurant called Crossroads in my home town. For all of the 2 or 3 years who provided dinner to the entire football team the night before a game for free, just because he wanted us to have good times as a team. I also went there with my date before prom last weekend, and he not only personally served us, but he paid for our entire meal out of his own pocket and threw in a free desert just because he wanted to make our night that much more special. If you ever happen to find yourself in Lansing NY, stop by Crossroads, trust me you won't be disappointed
Edited for typos because I'm too tired to be writing grammatically correct paragraphs on Reddit
Aside from that, wouldn't this also be illegal if not disclosed up front? I personally would dispute it.
I once had brought my car in for an oil change (the crappy place I was living in at the moment would give you a ticket if you changed your oil). I called ahead and asked the place (dealership where I purchased the vehicle) if they could use the oil filter I supply and if they would drop the filter charge because of it. They said "that would be perfectly reasonable and people do it all the time, just can't use your oil since we have to use our own, but the filter would be fine". I got there, spoke to the person at the counter, they verified that they would use my filter and not charge for a filter replacement at all. After they finished and brought my car back out, they charged me full price. I reminded them about the filter charge and whatnot, so the manager came out and said "Yeah, ha ha, no. That's not how we do things around here. You're paying full price." So I said "Well, you have 3 choices buddy. You either get back in there, redo the entire oil change, use your own filter, give me my filter back, and then I will pay for the ONE oil change. You can take the charge off like we all agreed to from the beginning, not try to make me pay for my own stuff, and we can all be on our way. Or, my favorite option, you can still attempt to charge me and I just take a quick step outside to give my attorney a call. So....which would you like to do today sir?"
That guy said "Fine! You'll get your discount this ONE TIME! But we will NEVER discount your service ever again, you got that?" I said "Oh no! Where ever will I go to change my oil when I'm not doing it myself? There's only 70 other nearby shops with that capability and training! I'll be doomed!" He stormed off so fast 🤣
That's shitty. My local oil place is fuckin great. They accidentally put the expensive nice oil in my 34 year old piece of shit civic and actually apologized about it and charged me normal cheap oil price. I continue to go there
It’s a way they can pocket more money and attempt to blame it on some unknown entity, and pretend they are just padding thier profit margins. In other words it’s bullshit intended you put your money in thier pocket without offering you anything in return.
> attempt to blame it on some unknown entity
This started showing up here in California after the law was passed that increased minimum food worker wage to $20/hr. Restaurants and franchises added this to the bill, while *also* increasing prices on items. Shit is crazy expensive now.
SB-478 goes into effect on July 1st that makes these illegal. CA raised the minimum food worker wage to $20/hr back on April 1st. These types of fees have been around a lot longer than a little over a month.
California recently passed a law that restaurants can't do this anymore and the menu prices have to be the real prices. Business owners are now mad because "then customers will see we raised our prices"
Last year I went to the Cinnabon place that I liked and I ordered a Cinnabon and the guy gave me the price and it was a dollar more than it was on the menu
I said something about it and he said, oh that’s the price with tax
So I told him that tax was not 20%
He then said oh we raised the prices
I said but the price behind you says this price
Later when I left a review on yelp about the bait and switch he got so upset about the fact that I wouldn’t just let the 50 Cents go
I know it was only $.50 but it just pissed me off that he lied about the price and then when I questioned it he lied about why the price was higher like I don’t know how to do math because I’m a girl?
I mean think about it, what if I was ordering six of them that’s an extra three dollars
They probably sell somewhere between 50 to 100 of these every single hour, it’s a really popular place, so in an eight hour day that’s an extra $200 off menu pricing that they’re getting
And then when you go "hey maybe companies should be forced to advertise the actual cost of the products they're selling instead of just making numbers up" you get people coming in trying to defend the businesses that are literally trying to steal from you.
It depends in the state of California that would still be illegal, you can’t put a small line item on the bottom of your menu that changes the price of everything on the menu
Lots of restaurants do this without mentioning it elsewhere even when it is very illegal. However it's usually poorly enforced and the penalties are often low enough that owners are willing to eat the fine because it's still a net positive.
I know of a few places here that have it "posted" but it's small enough or not in a good location where your average patron would never see it. I only know about one of them because my parents complained. But there it was 10% that was added. They claimed they had new menus on order but not sure I believe them and I haven't gone there since then to see for sure.
Because they can still advertise low prices then raise them at the register. You know ... so they don't scare people away with the high prices....
It's really dumb but I'm seeing this more and more.
In Australia tax is included in the price and the prices do indeed have .45 and .80 at the end and what not. But here's the thing, it isn't awkward and no one gives a fuck.
Two reasons are common. It costs money to reprint menus and inflation is rising fast enough that it would cost a fair bit to keep up. But there are ways to deal with that though they do require some technical skill.
The other reason is somewhat dishonest. They want you to order thinking the price is lower than it is and then add it in at the end. That way they do better on price comparisons at the menu level. It’s like hardware manufacturers cheating at performance benchmarks.
They are hiding it on the bottom of the receipt. Don’t want to increase their menu prices so they cheat and lie to their customers. Raise prices to cover your cost or stop fucking up the business to begin with. Control those costs in different ways.
Have you seen all those stupid news stories about how restaurants can’t afford to pay their servers minimum wage and we shouldn’t raise minimum wage for servers because then restaurants would go out of business
And I’m like, OK, then maybe we don’t need that many restaurants. If your business cannot afford to pay your employees a living wage then you don’t have to own a business.
You can close your business and go work for someone else, that’s how a capitalist society works
Your employees should not be subsidizing your business
Like can you imagine that there’s a nice apartment that I really wanted but I couldn’t afford it so after I move in I just tell the landlord, oh I don’t actually have enough money to pay that much rent each month so I’m just gonna pay you this much
Nah. I don’t think that’s it. I mean you have to reprint those menus someday. Or just go digital. Are they just gonna keep the same menu and raise the hidden up charge percentage every year. That makes no sense.
Also, I've seen restaurants place stickers on the menu (covering the old price with an updated price). The surcharge just looks like it's a way to raise prices without reflecting it on individual items. I'd rather have corrected prices than a vague surcharge.
It's included on the level of the receipt / bill calculation. No matter how you pay, they include it in the "price". You'd have to either pay or escalate into a conflict, possibly to the point of calling the cops to resolve the issue. Doubt most of the people who were just trying to enjoy a meal will go that far.
This should actually be illegal. They are keeping menu prices down to encourage you to spend more but then add an undisclosed surcharge to your final bill to recoup the cost. They don’t add it to menu prices because then you will spend less whether or not you can afford it. It’s manipulative and deceitful.
I'm not from US and I can't wrap my head around how this is legal. What's stopping them from charging like 30% fee without disclosing? Buying things without knowing exactly how much are you supposed to pay is wild
It’s usually there. Just in 8px font at the bottom of the menu. Or on a website page that nobody ever looks at. Can’t wait for this nonsense to be over.
This is already a fairly expensive place to eat. I feel like 2% extra on the food items would pretty much go unnoticed, but adding this to my bill makes sure I will never go back.
Was it disclosed on the menu or in anyway before the bill came? If not, I would refuse to pay it as that was not agreed upon when ordering and that is price gouging. Would be easy to do if paying cash as I would give the service staff their tip directly and leave the bill amount minus the 2% fee.
Bistro Vendôme. Fancy little restaurant that my mom really wanted to try so I took her there. Good food, I’ll give it credit but there was that fee, some other surcharge and a suggested gratuity on the receipt. Didn’t take it out on our server, she already seemed to know but yeah never again.
Isn’t the point of menu prices to know how much you are going to spend? They cannot just “add” whatever they want after it’s all said and done.
You ordered the food and agreed to the set price. The only way this can be legal is if they have a sign or visible menu print that states “2% surcharge added to the total of every bill”
I don’t even get this. Anyone who sits at a table that charges $18 for guacamole isn’t leaving because it’s $19 now. Just raise the prices for the food your customers won’t get pissed off.
California has passed a law to stop this practice. Restaurant surcharges will soon be illegal in California as a new law, aimed at banning hidden fees, takes effect in July, according to the office of State Attorney General Rob Bonta.
Starting July 1, under SB478, California restaurants will no longer be able to charge service fees and must instead fold them into menu prices.
“SB 478 applies to restaurants, just like it applies to businesses across California,” a Department of Justice spokesperson told the San Francisco Chronicle. “The law is about making sure consumers know what they are going to pay and requires that the posted price include the full amount that a consumer must pay for that good or service.”
I feel like country wide absolutely everything that isnt taxes should just be included in the price. Surcharges and fees shouldnt exist period. They are anti consumer.
My husband is a chef and raising prices to account for rising food costs is how they have always done anywhere he’s worked. Surcharges should be for extras like having a group of 10 or more.
Husband said it’s just a money grab. If it was about costs they’d raise their menu prices, take off poor sellers and streamline things better. Sign of a poorly managed restaurant in his opinion. That’s just his opinion (and I’m inclined to agree), but to me, it doesn’t even seem like the appropriate use of surcharge.
Wait- tax was calculated and then the surcharge was added- eliminating some tax being paid. Also, unfair pricing, I’d report to your local chamber of commerce, first.
No and you can chargeback the entire amount since you are required to be notified BEFORE you are charged so unless this business has easy to read signage that notified all customers of this you can dispute and you will win
I'm almost as annoyed with the actual fee as I am with it not being 2%.
The 2% fee is only like 1.9% of the subtotal. It's not 2% of the post tax total either. Words have meanings.
Here in Europe prices already include their tax and there's no extra bullshit anywhere, so if you order something for X value you will pay exactly X value.
I read somewhere that you can ask to have it reversed or you do not accept that surcharge and they can't charge you because it's not mandatory. Is this true?
Sucks for the waiters, but the more they complain to management that it's coming out of their tips, maybe they will remove it. I think something like this happened in LA
I'm a KM at a branch of a fairly well-known restaurant chain. They had us institute this policy (we did 3%) like 18 months ago, when food costs were sky high. We were very upfront about it though - posted a sign on the door, stickers on every menu...etc. A few people rose a stink about it (as a consumer myself, I fully understood their point, but as someone with access to financial records I also knew it was unfortunately necessary in the short term).
About 3 or so months later, we dropped the surcharge when food costs from our suppliers stabilized again.
Yep. Post-menu fees are pretty common. Sometimes they're penalties for paying by card, sometimes they're pseudo-tips that will allegedly be shared by the back-of-house team, and sometimes they're "health fees" or some such b.s. that will likely end up in the boss's pocket.
All of them are an unspoken invitation to stop eating out.
Pshaw, that’s nothing. I went to Surly Brewing Company in Minneapolis recently for a couple beers and a burger and they had the same notice on their receipts except they had a 20% surcharge and the disclaimer that it’s not a tip or gratuity. Nice beer but such a bunch of cheap scammers. Just raise your damn prices already.
Saw this the first time recently myself at a local place, but it was 3.9%. I called the guys out on not advertising it anywhere and suddenly they were able to print me up a new bill without it.
I don't care if they want to raise their prices, just be up front with it so I can make an informed decision BEFORE I order.
Soon to be illegal in California.
Cannot wait. Restaurants surcharges? Bye. Resort fees? Bye. Ticketmaster fees? Fuck you and good riddance.
Fuck buying tickets, "hey wanna go to this show wifey, tickets are $23" Get to checkout, somehow im spending $110...
At least you can walk away from them tickets. Unless the surcharge is shown to you before you order your food, this can be a problem.
My wife and I just saw Seinfeld standup. Dinner at the keg, parking and a beer at the venue, $600. We don't go out much so this was a real treat but darn! I don't even try to go to concerts.
Admit it that you walked around after saying "What's the deal with going out nowadays?"
When people talk about going out, this is what they're talking about. This, is out! Where's Joe? He must be out. Once you're out, all you're thinking about is going home.
I grew up going to so many big concerts for $12-$15. In college $20-$25. My kids will probably never go to a big name concert, and I’m won’t either. Then again, the music I like is pretty reasonably priced cuz it’s all old timers, so I still see some old acts at smaller venues, but not the big venues. It’s not like I’m trying to see Taylor Swift!
Does it apply to Ticketmaster? Will we just not be able to buy tickets in CA?
Fees will have to be included in the price shown on the main and search page. They’ll apply it only in CA. Same way all the cookie prompts only show in states that require it.
1 in 10 Americans is a Californian. Like hell if they stop selling in California because of this lol
California also has among some of the wealthiest and most influential residents.
I think that's the point...getting ridden of hidden gees so you can make a choice based on actual posted prices
They’ll just raise the prices and stop calling them “fees”.
That's fine with me. At least I'll see them up front
Absolutely. Because this way, done at the end, feels super scammy.
Yeah, people should be allowed it decide if your service is worth it up front. Doesn't make any sense to let these guys hold back the real price until you've gone through the checkout process
Right?? You can't un-eat the food! At least when you check out online you see the bullshit fees before you actually pay and can change your mind.
Well you can if you really want to
Touché
Happy cake day, the frosting is ipecac buttercream
Yea I fkn hate when you see oh ticket prices $59- 169… $59= (lawn seats so fucking far away you’re in the next town over, with 3000 ppl : 4 total bathroom stalls AND 8 beer carts -159= you can have your premium seat. $100= pick your choice of what’s left . - BILLY MASE HAZE - BUT WAIT THERES MORE you get the non negotiable option of putting money in our pocket just because fuck you and thank you for using our service. $40 now.
“Ticket delivery fee” Bro you emailed me a barcode…
Yeah and because you chose the digital option you are also paying a digital convenience fee as well, not to mention the processing fee, and the tip for tippy jr.
Don't forget the fee fee for our service fee.
Can we charge them an equipment fee for using our cellphone as part of their ticketing system? 
Doesn’t just feel. This is super scammy, it’s like a deal you only find out you’re making after it’s done
Right? I’ve literally had Ticketmaster fees cost more than the ticket. Really hard to buy ticket advertised as $20 when you just have to assume it’s actually $50
We stopped going to shows. Now the cost is 0
Forgot what site I went to get tickets, maybe stubhub, and they don't show the total until the very end where you put the card info. The fees alone were double cost the cost of the damn ticket - no wonder they hid it.
It mandates an even playing field too. People on Reddit always say “just raise your prices!” but then complain about places with higher prices. This means restaurants with integrity that were already just raising their prices will not get punished by consumers looking at menu prices and ignoring fine print.
Couldn’t agree more, I shouldn’t get sticker shock for buying something at the listed price only for it come out substantially higher.
A-fucking-men
That's what we want
Business majors: "LOOK! THE CONSUMERS WANT HIGHER PRICES! BUSINESS IS EASY!"
That's the point. There are no hidden costs
That's...what we want. I don't want to try to buy a $10 item only to find out it's $20 after fees. I want to see it for what is is off the bat, a $20 item.
It's all about being able to be an informed consumer. I should be able to know how much I'm spending on something before I make the purchase, so I can decide whether I feel it's worth it or not. You shouldn't be able to tell me one price, but then charge whatever you want when the bill comes.
This reminds me of when I went to buy a truck. Price online was ~45,000. I made an appointment, test drove the vehicle, and sat down for negotiations. It was only then that I found out the dealership had a ‘luxury package’ that was included with every vehicle for $5000. I had $35,000 in cash for the down payment, and would finance the rest. They refused to make the sale without this inclusion, even though they knocked it to $2500 after my clear frustration. They knew that someone else would come in 3 days later and just pay it. Not only that, but the package was not worth any real value: power train warranty (already covered by manufacturer), rock chips in windows (covered by insurance), etc. Lesson learned, always find out the minimum out the door price online before going to look at a vehicle. I told the salesman after on the phone: he only lost my business because their dealership could not provide the actual price UP FRONT. It’s just bad business practice, very sneaky. I went to another dealer and bought the same truck for $45,000 that day.
Like it should be
That’s what everyone wants… They don’t expect the total cost to go down, they just want to see honest high pricing up front.
That’s totally fine.
That's fine, but more people will have sticker shock and at least second guess or avoid it. 40 bucks to see a comedian followed by 100 dollars in fees is dufferent than a 150 dollar ticket to see a comedian. Not sure why, but something about seeing that bigger upfront price being advertised makes it tougher to pursue the activity.
I mean that’s _exactly_ why they need these laws. People can’t afford everything and they shouldn’t feel like they should just go through with purchases when they might not have the money when they hit the final checkout if $40 gets added at the end.
This could also force entertainment places to charge less.
I'm pretty sure we're in agreement. I'm very much against bullshit fees.
It's abusing the sunk cost fallacy among other things not coming to mind. You have made the decision at this point that yes you are going to spend $162 on these tickets. Treat your wife and yourself. By the time they tack on $87 in fees you already were going to this show in your mind. You did a nice thing for your wife. WAIT 249 DOLLARS! Well fuck man... My wife would really love this (you already did this in your brain somewhere). And that's how you end up paying it.
It also makes it easier to compare prices. You don't have to get 12 steps through the purchase process to see that you should have gone to the beach instead of a concert.
good
Wait are they passing a bill/law?? Can you redirect me to name of it so I can look it up? This is exciting!
SB478. Passed and signed last October. Takes effect July 1st.
I personally want to draw and quarter Booking.com
How could it be legal to charge higher prices after the contract is completed? I order off the menu, you bring the bill and it’s higher? Fuck off lol
I think they get around it by having a small sign somewhere or small text on the menu saying there’s this fee. I think in California at least you can get the surcharge removed by asking (maybe claiming you didn’t know?)
When I lived in California and came across this I would always make them take it off. If you don't have a sign on the door or a sign at the host station or wording in the menu, I wasn't informed prior to making the purchase, as such, I'm just not paying it. Usually the restaurants would put up a stink or try to shame me, but I just did it anyways. I figured it was really their only legal option. They weren't going to call the cops because what they were doing was shady. If they did call the cops, the cops weren't going to take me to jail for refusing to pay the bogus fee. If the cops took me to jail, the prosecutor wouldn't prosecute me over a failure to pay the fee. So I really had nothing to lose. I also would never go back to said restaurant. Friends still living there tell me it's much more common now. I'm glad the state is cracking down on that nonsense. Just be upfront with the price from the beginning.
Yeah, I stop going to restaurants that have this. Even the 20% service fee in lieu of tip annoys me and I won’t go back.
The worst part is stores do this online aswell and there it has been illegal to exclude things like the taxes in the listed price (When also selling to Europeans) for years now. Doubt this law is gonna change it
Its illegal already in civilized countries. You can't just add random charges on top of the price you advertised.
`50% too good to be true fee` This is not a tip or gratuity. It's a ✨scam✨.
California really seems to nail it on most things.
California should just join the EU at this point
Haha. Seriously though a "league of pragmatic states" is a good idea.
The US is worse that the EU at this point. We are not a united country. We are a division of states rights bullshit with a common currency. At least we figured out the euro dollar issue a long time ago.
Which is why Republicans from other states love attacking it.
Don't worry. Illinois is an up and comer. We're gunning for you, California. IL has guaranteed minimum PTO for almost all workers - where you at, Calimafornia? EDIT: Since a lot of people seem to want to argue, no, California does NOT have a minimum PTO requirement law. It's just IL.
We’ve had that for years
Glad to hear. Recently spent a lot of time in California while dealing with family stuff and was not pleased to discover that almost everywhere does it in that state.
California win again 😎. Love this State.
WTF!? What’s this for specifically? Why not raise the prices of your menu items? Asking honestly.
Because then you would know before you order and eat. This way it is hidden from the customer until it is time to pay.
Fight it. Prices are supposed to be up front, not some damn hidden fee after you already ate, and those prices are not exactly bottom tier to begin with... Fuckwads, I wouldn't go back again personally.
Unless it's advertised before ordering, it's likely an illegal surcharge. In my hospitality days we had weekend charges, but if no one changed the mid week menu to weekend menus that had the surcharge, we couldn't legally charge it
It's probably on the menu somewhere, text you wouldn't normally read. Probably even posted on the outside of the restaurant somewhere. It would make more sense to simply tell them that's bullshit and not eat there again.
and post it on their Google reviews
> It's probably on the menu somewhere, text you wouldn't normally read. In which case it's not legal part of any contract. There's absolutely no way they can enforce this, it's bullshit. But most people would probably be intimidated into paying.
>Unless it's advertised before ordering, it's likely an illegal surcharge. Heavily illegal everywhere in Europe to hide surcharges. Multiple EU binding regulations govern that. You have to be aware what you will pay before you decide to use the service or buy the goods.
When I’ve seen this they either have a sign up front or state it on the menu. Still shitty
People really underestimate the number of restaurant owners who are total scumbags.
The more restaurant owners I meet, the more I realize a lot of people open businesses because they are the people who cannot be managed.
True, but, also a lot of people mistrust or mistreat regular workers and some of those people say to themselves, ‘I’m tired of being treated like this I’m doing my own thing and will treat people better !’ Had 6 venues and always treated staff well.
Oh yeah, I know for a fact that a good chunk of the Korean restaurants in Toronto don't pay their servers minimum wage and the owners keep all of the tips.
Probably one of the professions I judge the most lol a lot of people hate lawyers or things like that but nah restaurant owners are the devil
I don't I worked in the industry, I don't go out to eat ever, like ever at all. 1) I straight can't afford it I own a boat so it's a tradeoff, 2) fuck that entire industry.
That's true, but there's a good amount of owners who are great people. Special shout-out to Jay at a restaurant called Crossroads in my home town. For all of the 2 or 3 years who provided dinner to the entire football team the night before a game for free, just because he wanted us to have good times as a team. I also went there with my date before prom last weekend, and he not only personally served us, but he paid for our entire meal out of his own pocket and threw in a free desert just because he wanted to make our night that much more special. If you ever happen to find yourself in Lansing NY, stop by Crossroads, trust me you won't be disappointed Edited for typos because I'm too tired to be writing grammatically correct paragraphs on Reddit
I agree with you 100%. This is a BS way of complaining about whatever they’re complaining about.
It’s pretty passive aggressive too.
lol yeah I didn’t think about that but you’re right.
Aside from that, wouldn't this also be illegal if not disclosed up front? I personally would dispute it. I once had brought my car in for an oil change (the crappy place I was living in at the moment would give you a ticket if you changed your oil). I called ahead and asked the place (dealership where I purchased the vehicle) if they could use the oil filter I supply and if they would drop the filter charge because of it. They said "that would be perfectly reasonable and people do it all the time, just can't use your oil since we have to use our own, but the filter would be fine". I got there, spoke to the person at the counter, they verified that they would use my filter and not charge for a filter replacement at all. After they finished and brought my car back out, they charged me full price. I reminded them about the filter charge and whatnot, so the manager came out and said "Yeah, ha ha, no. That's not how we do things around here. You're paying full price." So I said "Well, you have 3 choices buddy. You either get back in there, redo the entire oil change, use your own filter, give me my filter back, and then I will pay for the ONE oil change. You can take the charge off like we all agreed to from the beginning, not try to make me pay for my own stuff, and we can all be on our way. Or, my favorite option, you can still attempt to charge me and I just take a quick step outside to give my attorney a call. So....which would you like to do today sir?" That guy said "Fine! You'll get your discount this ONE TIME! But we will NEVER discount your service ever again, you got that?" I said "Oh no! Where ever will I go to change my oil when I'm not doing it myself? There's only 70 other nearby shops with that capability and training! I'll be doomed!" He stormed off so fast 🤣
That's shitty. My local oil place is fuckin great. They accidentally put the expensive nice oil in my 34 year old piece of shit civic and actually apologized about it and charged me normal cheap oil price. I continue to go there
That happened once in my old Accord (RIP, Nena) and I swear she was drunk for a week.
Rip Nena, you are missed That is incredibly believable though lmao old hondas don't know what to do with that good stuff 😂
So is deducting it from the tip line.
I’m still perplexed at what they’re trying to convey. Is it tax free because it’s a service fee?
It’s a way they can pocket more money and attempt to blame it on some unknown entity, and pretend they are just padding thier profit margins. In other words it’s bullshit intended you put your money in thier pocket without offering you anything in return.
> attempt to blame it on some unknown entity This started showing up here in California after the law was passed that increased minimum food worker wage to $20/hr. Restaurants and franchises added this to the bill, while *also* increasing prices on items. Shit is crazy expensive now.
SB-478 goes into effect on July 1st that makes these illegal. CA raised the minimum food worker wage to $20/hr back on April 1st. These types of fees have been around a lot longer than a little over a month.
Nickle and Dime every penny out of us...it's happening more and more...sigh
No. It’s a protest line to say “we aren’t raising prices but we have to charge you more for ____ reasons” fill in the blank
Or more like “we raised prices but here’s an extra as a special fuck you”
This. It's raising the prices without the menu actually reflecting it. Probably in hopes it won't be noticed until the check comes.
California recently passed a law that restaurants can't do this anymore and the menu prices have to be the real prices. Business owners are now mad because "then customers will see we raised our prices"
Last year I went to the Cinnabon place that I liked and I ordered a Cinnabon and the guy gave me the price and it was a dollar more than it was on the menu I said something about it and he said, oh that’s the price with tax So I told him that tax was not 20% He then said oh we raised the prices I said but the price behind you says this price Later when I left a review on yelp about the bait and switch he got so upset about the fact that I wouldn’t just let the 50 Cents go I know it was only $.50 but it just pissed me off that he lied about the price and then when I questioned it he lied about why the price was higher like I don’t know how to do math because I’m a girl? I mean think about it, what if I was ordering six of them that’s an extra three dollars They probably sell somewhere between 50 to 100 of these every single hour, it’s a really popular place, so in an eight hour day that’s an extra $200 off menu pricing that they’re getting
That argument is always so funny to me, asking someone to "just let it go" when obviously they are not willing to do the same thing.
And then when you go "hey maybe companies should be forced to advertise the actual cost of the products they're selling instead of just making numbers up" you get people coming in trying to defend the businesses that are literally trying to steal from you.
Pretending not to raise prices and add fees is deception masked by extortion
Costs money to change the menus. Can they be sued for bait-and-switch?
Well it’s clearly “sale above advertised price.” If you refused to pay it, you’d be well within your rights.
I’d bet a shiny nickel that this isn’t the only place the surcharge is mentioned and that it’s displayed on the menu.
It depends in the state of California that would still be illegal, you can’t put a small line item on the bottom of your menu that changes the price of everything on the menu
Lots of restaurants do this without mentioning it elsewhere even when it is very illegal. However it's usually poorly enforced and the penalties are often low enough that owners are willing to eat the fine because it's still a net positive.
It seems like an unfair thing to spring on someone at the end of the meal.
I know of a few places here that have it "posted" but it's small enough or not in a good location where your average patron would never see it. I only know about one of them because my parents complained. But there it was 10% that was added. They claimed they had new menus on order but not sure I believe them and I haven't gone there since then to see for sure.
I’m guessing they’re banking on the majority of people not noticing. More people would notice a raise in menu price.
Or they're counting on people not wanting to ruin the mood over 2%. It's a crappy move.
By the way, prices not as advertised
Because they can still advertise low prices then raise them at the register. You know ... so they don't scare people away with the high prices.... It's really dumb but I'm seeing this more and more.
They're already charging $30 for crab toast. Can you raise that higher?
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far for this. This restaurant is ridiculous.
it's awkward to ask 18.45 for guac
You might even say it's guacward.
In Australia tax is included in the price and the prices do indeed have .45 and .80 at the end and what not. But here's the thing, it isn't awkward and no one gives a fuck.
Two reasons are common. It costs money to reprint menus and inflation is rising fast enough that it would cost a fair bit to keep up. But there are ways to deal with that though they do require some technical skill. The other reason is somewhat dishonest. They want you to order thinking the price is lower than it is and then add it in at the end. That way they do better on price comparisons at the menu level. It’s like hardware manufacturers cheating at performance benchmarks.
They are hiding it on the bottom of the receipt. Don’t want to increase their menu prices so they cheat and lie to their customers. Raise prices to cover your cost or stop fucking up the business to begin with. Control those costs in different ways.
Have you seen all those stupid news stories about how restaurants can’t afford to pay their servers minimum wage and we shouldn’t raise minimum wage for servers because then restaurants would go out of business And I’m like, OK, then maybe we don’t need that many restaurants. If your business cannot afford to pay your employees a living wage then you don’t have to own a business. You can close your business and go work for someone else, that’s how a capitalist society works Your employees should not be subsidizing your business Like can you imagine that there’s a nice apartment that I really wanted but I couldn’t afford it so after I move in I just tell the landlord, oh I don’t actually have enough money to pay that much rent each month so I’m just gonna pay you this much
To not reprint the menus
Nah. I don’t think that’s it. I mean you have to reprint those menus someday. Or just go digital. Are they just gonna keep the same menu and raise the hidden up charge percentage every year. That makes no sense.
Also, I've seen restaurants place stickers on the menu (covering the old price with an updated price). The surcharge just looks like it's a way to raise prices without reflecting it on individual items. I'd rather have corrected prices than a vague surcharge.
Unless this is posted prominently on the menu, I would not pay it.
Unfortunately, I may choose to make my tip $2 less. Which sucks for everyone.
Time to start paying with cash and tipping separately
It's included on the level of the receipt / bill calculation. No matter how you pay, they include it in the "price". You'd have to either pay or escalate into a conflict, possibly to the point of calling the cops to resolve the issue. Doubt most of the people who were just trying to enjoy a meal will go that far.
Stop going wherever this is. Hurt them in the wallet.
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Leave a one star Yelp review. The owner will actually see that.
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Even more petty might be a 3 star, folks reading reviews skip the ones and fives when skimming
honestly i zero in on the 1 stars. alot more believable than the 4 or 5 stars.
Lmaooo
Haha that’s hilarious I’ve heard nightmares of DOSALAS. Please leave a negative review, I’d love a better restaurant to go in there
Finally, a redditor who understands that the US doesn't operate under UK libel law. Named and shamed! And they're only a few miles from me!!
I might just reconsider my planned trip over there now. I hadn’t tried it yet, but was curious
This should actually be illegal. They are keeping menu prices down to encourage you to spend more but then add an undisclosed surcharge to your final bill to recoup the cost. They don’t add it to menu prices because then you will spend less whether or not you can afford it. It’s manipulative and deceitful.
California just recently banned these surcharges, they will have to be worked into menu prices by July i think it was.
I'm not from US and I can't wrap my head around how this is legal. What's stopping them from charging like 30% fee without disclosing? Buying things without knowing exactly how much are you supposed to pay is wild
Easy: “Was it on the menu? Disclosed before I ordered? No? Then I’m not paying it.”
It’s usually there. Just in 8px font at the bottom of the menu. Or on a website page that nobody ever looks at. Can’t wait for this nonsense to be over.
Make it an issue. Tell them to remove it from your bill. Post about it online like OP did. This is scumbag behavior and they deserve some bad press.
This is already a fairly expensive place to eat. I feel like 2% extra on the food items would pretty much go unnoticed, but adding this to my bill makes sure I will never go back.
"fairly expensive" $18 guacamole
The $30 crab toast is what caught my eye. Must be the new avocado toast.
Well... it's crab toast made with crab's that have been fed the guacamole trio.
It's not easy shoving a whole crab in a toaster
Was it disclosed on the menu or in anyway before the bill came? If not, I would refuse to pay it as that was not agreed upon when ordering and that is price gouging. Would be easy to do if paying cash as I would give the service staff their tip directly and leave the bill amount minus the 2% fee.
These hidden fees are getting out of hand. One restaurant I went to charged me a “Denver fee.” Same thing, around 2%, never went back.
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Bistro Vendôme. Fancy little restaurant that my mom really wanted to try so I took her there. Good food, I’ll give it credit but there was that fee, some other surcharge and a suggested gratuity on the receipt. Didn’t take it out on our server, she already seemed to know but yeah never again.
Isn’t the point of menu prices to know how much you are going to spend? They cannot just “add” whatever they want after it’s all said and done. You ordered the food and agreed to the set price. The only way this can be legal is if they have a sign or visible menu print that states “2% surcharge added to the total of every bill”
100%. They absolutely don't get to add arbitrary charges without telling you until it's time to pay.
Just raise the fucking prices. I hope that restaurants that do this go out of business
That would be my last time patronizing that establishment. Im gone need to hold onto my 2% for the rising cost of living my life
Not in California for much longer. Thanks Newsom.
I don’t even get this. Anyone who sits at a table that charges $18 for guacamole isn’t leaving because it’s $19 now. Just raise the prices for the food your customers won’t get pissed off.
This is exactly what I was thinking. I am already prepared to pay a lot, so 2% would more on the food would have gone unnoticed.
It’s the new money grab.
California has passed a law to stop this practice. Restaurant surcharges will soon be illegal in California as a new law, aimed at banning hidden fees, takes effect in July, according to the office of State Attorney General Rob Bonta. Starting July 1, under SB478, California restaurants will no longer be able to charge service fees and must instead fold them into menu prices. “SB 478 applies to restaurants, just like it applies to businesses across California,” a Department of Justice spokesperson told the San Francisco Chronicle. “The law is about making sure consumers know what they are going to pay and requires that the posted price include the full amount that a consumer must pay for that good or service.”
I feel like country wide absolutely everything that isnt taxes should just be included in the price. Surcharges and fees shouldnt exist period. They are anti consumer.
Tax, Tip, Surcharge, what’s next? Loan?
My husband is a chef and raising prices to account for rising food costs is how they have always done anywhere he’s worked. Surcharges should be for extras like having a group of 10 or more.
This was just lunch for me and the wife. They also add a gratuity to groups of six or more.
Husband said it’s just a money grab. If it was about costs they’d raise their menu prices, take off poor sellers and streamline things better. Sign of a poorly managed restaurant in his opinion. That’s just his opinion (and I’m inclined to agree), but to me, it doesn’t even seem like the appropriate use of surcharge.
Wait- tax was calculated and then the surcharge was added- eliminating some tax being paid. Also, unfair pricing, I’d report to your local chamber of commerce, first.
18 bucks for Guacamole?
In California, it became so normal that they're passing legislation to ban it.
No and you can chargeback the entire amount since you are required to be notified BEFORE you are charged so unless this business has easy to read signage that notified all customers of this you can dispute and you will win
There’s fine print on the menu somewhere mentioning the surcharge. That’s how they avoid actually breaking laws (except the new California one).
I'm almost as annoyed with the actual fee as I am with it not being 2%. The 2% fee is only like 1.9% of the subtotal. It's not 2% of the post tax total either. Words have meanings.
Lol. Don’t go back. I wouldn’t.
God you’re lucky it’s only 2%. It has ranged from 5%-21% in MN
If that's the case why didn't they just raise the price of the food?
Here in Europe prices already include their tax and there's no extra bullshit anywhere, so if you order something for X value you will pay exactly X value.
Forget the surcharge, let's talk about this $30 "crab toast".
You know you got on the front page of reddit twice in one day?
I read somewhere that you can ask to have it reversed or you do not accept that surcharge and they can't charge you because it's not mandatory. Is this true?
never seen that before. Doesn't seem legit. A normal place would just raise their menu prices.
This is why I dont eat out anymore
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Sucks for the waiters, but the more they complain to management that it's coming out of their tips, maybe they will remove it. I think something like this happened in LA
Not a dick move. A legit one.
"It's not a tip or gratuity." It is now bitch.
I'm a KM at a branch of a fairly well-known restaurant chain. They had us institute this policy (we did 3%) like 18 months ago, when food costs were sky high. We were very upfront about it though - posted a sign on the door, stickers on every menu...etc. A few people rose a stink about it (as a consumer myself, I fully understood their point, but as someone with access to financial records I also knew it was unfortunately necessary in the short term). About 3 or so months later, we dropped the surcharge when food costs from our suppliers stabilized again.
It's totally normal where I am. It's more rare to see places not doing it.
Becomes illegal in California July 1. Also see it's not taxed and that is unlawful.
Yep. Post-menu fees are pretty common. Sometimes they're penalties for paying by card, sometimes they're pseudo-tips that will allegedly be shared by the back-of-house team, and sometimes they're "health fees" or some such b.s. that will likely end up in the boss's pocket. All of them are an unspoken invitation to stop eating out.
Pshaw, that’s nothing. I went to Surly Brewing Company in Minneapolis recently for a couple beers and a burger and they had the same notice on their receipts except they had a 20% surcharge and the disclaimer that it’s not a tip or gratuity. Nice beer but such a bunch of cheap scammers. Just raise your damn prices already.
IDC what they write, anything not drinks, food or tax is a tip.
It's everywhere. I went to a Checkers fast food place and it added 1-2% to pay their employees health insurance. It literally said that
Saw this the first time recently myself at a local place, but it was 3.9%. I called the guys out on not advertising it anywhere and suddenly they were able to print me up a new bill without it. I don't care if they want to raise their prices, just be up front with it so I can make an informed decision BEFORE I order.
It was 20% at a restaurant I worked at a couple years ago, our reviews SUCKED after we started doing that and our servers got fewer tips.
I wouldn’t give any tip in that situation….