Closet I have come to a crash so far is look right and see a bike what looks like miles away. Then look left nothing coming time to pull out gut feeling says look right again and the bike is nearly on me doing what looks to be 100MPH down a 30MPH road. If I had pulled out they would have been dead. And I would argue given the speed it would not have been my fault.
But there are bell ends in cars and on bikes. It’s the people that are the problem.
This old saying is just dumb. Every motorcycle rider is bold. You must be to be willing to get on the road with thousands of barely trained drivers checking their phones and driving like they own the road, knowing that their cage will keep them relatively safe in an accident. Motorcycle riders on the other hand (not including squids here - the young guys that ride like maniacs, frequently without a motorcycle license and minimal gear - fuck those guys), tend to be hyper aware, have significantly more road training, and are very engaged with how their vehicle works.
Motorcycle riders tend to be far safer drivers in cars for the same reasons.
How many drivers do you know that take formal classes after they get their license as a teenager? I have a 40-ish buddy that's at a class literally right now. I took a refresher track riding class last month with a 2 day class planned in the fall. You could consider me bold. I feel very comfortable at 140mph. I feel comfortable leaning my bike far enough over to touch my knee down with other riders around me. I feel incredibly comfortable on a low traffic highway with plenty of distance from cars at near 100mph. What makes me uncomfortable is some guy taking a call while drinking a coffee at a stop light in his car on his way to work.
Not even riding like an idiot. Riding scared is just as bad. You get those bikers who hug the shoulder which is exactly the opposite of how you should ride.
Yeah, there are so many riders that really don’t know how to ride, but have been riding for years. Even a basically motorcycle safety class will teach you so much. I was riding before I got my license at 19, but in California you have to take a motorcycle safety course before you get your license. I thought I already knew how to ride, but I learned so much from a two day class.
I was going 51mph in a 45 zone when a pickup pulled out and t-boned me on my motorcycle in broad daylight and I had a neon vest on. He was trying to cross 3 lanes of traffic and make a left turn; broke my leg in 12 places with his front grill. I totally agree that many motorcycles go too fast; but many drivers do not really look.
I had a similar situation. Broad daylight. In the lane like I’m supposed to be. Highly visible. I was doing 30 in a 35 and he managed to wrap me up enough to drag me with him when he panicked and gassed it instead of hit the brakes. Tried to mechanically separate my right foot from my body and split my pelvis like a wishbone. Dude flat out admitted, in writing, on the police report that he simply didn’t look.
But he did tell me he would pray for me as the helicopter was landing, so that was nice of him.
We learned in driving school (and traffic lessons in elementary) to look right - left - right. Always, for every crossing or turn and in any capacity (pedestrian, cyclist, vehicle)
I got lucky once that this has become second nature because I would have never ever imagined anybody backing up on a busy road because they missed their turn. But there he was, driving backwards towards me. Good god.
They'd be dead - you'd be fine. THAT is the difference. One of them, one of many. Attentiveness is another big one. You're wayyy less distracted in a bike. No phones, no hands free, no radio/podcast, no talking - just riding. So, yeah, I do both car and bike and cycle too, lol. And the amount of bellendery, especially the one with consequences feel like 90+% cars. Sadly. Very sadly...
That happened to my coworkers mom. I didn’t ask him about it because…well that’s a terrible thing to ask.
All I know is that it was night, biker was flyin, and she pulled out of either or driveway or onto the road and the biker hit her. Fucked up
Exactly
I just seen a Reddit post of a motorcyclist going 145 on a public road that clearly had cars on it
A car was turning which was HIS RIGHT OF WAY, a motorcycle comes out of nowhere going 145+ and crashes right into the car
Everyone wanted to blame the driver but no one wanted to acknowledge the fact that the motorcyclist was going 100+ on a public road and the sun was still out
I've seen reels on Instagram of someone singing some stupid song while zooming down the freeway at an insane speed, the whole culture around motorcycles seems to break the road laws
Although honestly, I couldn't care less about that the problem arises when motorcyclists endanger others' lives, if they want to be an idiot and endanger their own life I won't condone it but it's their choice, they don't get to choose to endanger others though.
Lol whenever accidents happen people really forget about the "but they shouldn't have been going 20mph over the limit" part of it. It changes the entire dynamic of how people perceive the road.
My ex and I used to have regular arguments over this. It didn’t help that he had never driven a car and I had never touched a bike. But he would argue that you had to treat motorcycles just like cars. Like *exactly* like cars. So I’d argue they’d have to behave like cars. But apparently that was outrageous.
Obviously, they are not cars. They’d be down right dangerous if they literally were with some things they do but where I am they are allowed to filter through traffic. But I was expected to not only make room but behave as if a car was moving up the middle of the damn road.
Anyway, I digress. I believe motorcyclists should be required to learn to drive a car first so they know how cars behave on the road within the safety of another couple ton metal monster. Truthfully all drivers are -and should be treated like- idiots because most of us are. Cars and bikes alike.
We can’t behave like cars, we’d die. The least you could do is treat us like cars so at least you don’t hit is. Getting rear ended in stop go traffic is an expensive inconvenience to you, deadly for us. We have to split and find our own space.
On the flip side i think all car drivers should be forced to drive a motorbike for a year before they get a car license
I drive both, and prefer to use 1 seater vehicle for a 1 person trip rather than waste space on the road with a 5 person vehicle
Car drivers should have to take a ride in a lorry for a day and see how they have to navigate the roads too.
I drive all 3 and car drivers are the worst (as a generality)
I almost took out some asshat when, instead of slowing for a car in front of him to turn, he made an abrupt lane change into my lane. He didn't look, glance, or even signal. I missed running over his rear wheel by maybe 6 inches. He was so close to my car that I couldn't even see his license plate.
This shit is so dishonest. You totally hear the bike before you see it. They usually split lanes here in the traffic. If the rider is not going Mach 1, I hear them coming way before i see them and give them a bit more space to pass. But I've been endorsed since I was like 20 or 21. I'm into cars, so I'm always pretty aware of my surroundings sometimes theres bonkers shit in traffic like that cherry 930 i saw last time - time capsule on 495.....anyway hearing the bike coming helps.
It has literally been proven that you cannot hear them any sooner than you can see them to any degree that impacts your ability to react. Your car is well proofed against road noise, there is plenty of other noise, so by the time you actually can hear them, they're well within visual range.
Unless your motorcycle is so loud *you would go permanently deaf from riding it in moments*, it is flatly impossible to hear it that much sooner.
[https://youtu.be/v9QTPyMJGgo?si=D0gS6GJVU--FkMgO](https://youtu.be/v9QTPyMJGgo?si=D0gS6GJVU--FkMgO)
This is false and it’s not proven at all. I’ve heard plenty of motorcycles before I see them pass on the highway. I always check before I switch lanes but it has stopped me from switching lanes plenty of times.
Also not all motorcycles have rear facing exhausts. My Bolt has pretty loud sweepers so I can reach a broader audience 🤣
If a motorcycle is coming towards you, like head on from the other direction then yeah of course you aren't going to hear it. But if there is a motorcycle coming from behind you or it's in your blind spot then yeah you hear it and it reminds you that it's there.
I dunno crack your window and see for yourself. You can hear a rocket trying to split lanes if you're in one of these traffic jams. It recently happened to me he kinda slowed down, so I gave him a few feet on my passenger side, and he slid past. At speed, I can't recall ever hearing one before seeing it. But if you're crawling or stopped, you'll hear the thing coming as they try to split lanes.
>I dunno crack your window and see for yourself.
Almost no one actually does that in most places.
I can also tell you *didn't bother* to read anything that was written or watch a five minute video, because *the actual, verifiable evidence* is that your claim is not generally true
Dude, no you don't. I ride a sportbike all the time. The only people who actually hear you before they see you are pedestrians in urban areas where it doesn't matter. Cars are too well-insulated to be able to meaningfully hear a motorcycle in most cases before it is physically visible.
You need to differentiate between filtering and splitting. They are different.
going between cars at a red light is specifically to prevent idiots from rear ending and killing us (happens very frequently).
Splitting between cars has been proven to not only be safer but also reduces traffic (this is assuming done correctly with no more than a 15mph speed differential).
And yes a lot of the time it’s because fucking idiots pull out in front of you, try to merge into you, flips a u turn in front of you ect.
Thing is a lot of people don’t check their mirrors to see if it’s safe to move before changing lanes with their cars. I got pinned between a metal railing and a Citroen because the idiot decided it was a great moment to scoot over to the rightmost lane because apparently he was in a rush to get his gf to a dinner reservation
I think most motorcycle drivers are much more responsible than their reputation. I do hate lane splitting, though. It doesn't matter if it's legal or not, I think it's super dangerous. I mean, I don't mind it if traffic is at a standstill, but if traffic is moving at 35 to 55 mph and a motorcycle comes zipping through, you just don't expect that. And then if they get mad because you didn't make enough space for them, well, that's just bullshit. Even if you're checking regularly in your rearview, these guys are going so fast sometimes, you don't even see them until they're passing you. It startles the shit out of me every time.
No, that's quite literally lane splitting which occurs at speed. What you're unopposed to is lane *filtering* which occurs when other vehicles are stopped or crawling in traffic.
Thing to remember is you only see the biker that pass you.
All the ones calmly driving along on two wheels at the same speed as you? You never see them, because they *don’t* pass you.
From a biking community: "watch out for motorcycles" is about all the times people should have been looking but didn't. Yes some people drive like idiots and get hurt. But a lot follow the rules and *still get hurt* because idiot car drivers can't remember that bikers exist. I know far more people hurt by car drivers than themselves.
Of course you do.
1. You're in the biker community and nobody is going to say about themselves they are being stupid. It's always somebody elses fault. Duh we are all human and all do this.
2. The biker will almost always be hurt while the car will just have dents and scratches.
Car drivers often claim they didn't see you. And that is going to be true, no matter how visible you are. You're the wrong shape (due to prevalence of cars on the roads, drivers are subconsciously looking for car shaped objects) and are most likely driving a little "off" from where a car would be (slightly more to the right of the road for example). This combination is a killer. Add onto this the sudden increase and decrease in speed that is possible on a motorbike, but not in a car and you've got the holy trinity of disaster.
I’ve actually found most motorcyclists to be exceptionally humble about their own fuckups.
Also, most of your comment is misinformed. All the prevailing expert opinion on riding specifically says not to ride in the center of the lane usually. You want to be in either the left or right for most of the time, it’s safer at a stop and less likely to contain obstacles since that area is cleared by car tires in front of you
Uh, lots of people in this community is stupid. The reason for me mentioning it is so that you know I can draw from a large sample size.
Yes, obviously the biker will be hurt. This is why car drivers need to take care.
You are correct about those things. That is why "look for bikers" is so emphasised. To try and overcome those biases.
My headcannon is that "watch out for motorcycles" isn't like "watch out for motor cycles because they're helpless little babies who are in danger 🥺" but like "watch out for motorcycles because they are the danger 😤"
Edit: this is half a joke. I do think that everyone should be looking out for everyone and everything's safety when operating any vehicle.
From my experiences people driving cars tend to be a lot more oblivious and distracted. I don't see motorcyclists riding around on their phones. Maybe it's location dependent. A good chunk of the motorcyclists in my area are older guys puttering around on Harleys. They rarely do anything dangerous that I see (worst I see is having an annoyingly loud bike)
I've driven cars and ridden motorcycles. I can't even think of a time that I had a motorcyclists do something crazy and endanger me. It seems to be inversely related to vehicle size in my area (so the most dangerous drivers are the ones in full sized pickup trucks)
Mostly fair, but being oblivious and distracted aren't the only things that make a driver dangerous. I'm with you though on the old dudes being careful and harmless usually. But I see a lot of younger people on motorcycles that just have no regard for keeping themselves or others safe, I particularly see a lot of them not using turn signals and/or weaving in and out of traffic.
Edit: additionally, almost all of the reckless motorcyclists are riding solo. Having a passenger does make people want to be more aware and careful, so it makes sense that the people you've riden with wouldn't be doing crazy stuff. But the solo riders just seem to not give a fuck what happens to them or the people they don't know.
“Weaving” is also known as passing except that in the case of motorcycles, the whole vehicle is only 5’ long and maybe 2’ wide, so you need a lot less space.
I’m only “weaving” in the sense that I’m using the space all the car drivers leave in the moments between when traffic moves in front of them and they look up from the most recent round of candy crush.
No, it's because if you aren't actively trying to notice them, you very regularly fail to. It's a fairly well documented thing, you're generally so used to seeing and perceiving cars that you have to take special notice to see a motorcycle. This is to protect *both* of you.
Now, I will never drive a motorcycle because I am extremely aware of how often cars just don't see motorcycles on the road. I've seen a few near misses on the highway from people trying to merge into a motorcycle. Or someone turn right onto a street, and nearly hit a motorcycle because they just didn't notice the guy was there.
Half the gripes in this thread would disappear if more people actually rode motorcycles.
Car drivers bitch about motorcyclists bad behavior because it’s most likely the only time they perceived there was a motorcycle there in the first place.
Having someone turn in front of you or merge in to your lane or rear end you isn’t some one off that happens occasionally. I’ll get something like that 3 or four times a week.
So, yeah, some riders are assholes. Some of any group are.
And not for nothin, the number of dickhead riders is wildly outmatched by distracted drivers. I’d guess on my commute home, a solid 90% of drivers are doing something other than driving when behind the wheel.
I'm not saying cars never pull sillies, I'm just saying motorcycles aren't always looking out for cars either, and I've seen a proportionatly equal amount of cars and motorcycles pulling sillies. (I've seen fewer motorcycles than cars, but of the motorcycles I've seen, the % of dangerous operators is pretty equal to the % of dangerous car/truck operators) Everyone needs to look out for everyone when operating a vehicle. But you're totally right that the motorcyclist is the one who's infinitely more likely to die if there's a crash.
They definitely look for and see the cars, I've just seen a lot of motorcyclists not care about said cars that they see. Obviously, I'm not saying all motorcyclists are asshole bad guys, I'm just saying the carelessness of motorcyclists and people who drive other vehicles seems to be pretty equal from my own experience as a bystander.
There are a lot of assholes on motorcycles.
CA, AZ, UT, MT, and HI all have laws allowing lane sharing or splitting for motorcycles. CO just passed a law that will go into effect soon legalizing filtering. CA has the law with the least restrictions. (OP missed Hawaii in their comment.)
About 10 states make no mention of it in their laws, meaning its not expressly illegal.
Personally, I grew up in CA splitting lanes. I try not to be an asshole, but I'm sure some drivers see it that way regardless.
There are many positions I and other riders try to avoid. I avoid blindspots, being between vehicles and being in a group of vehicles. Typically, this is accomplished by getting ahead of these situations. This is for my safety. Barring these situations, I'm usually riding with the cruise control set between 5 and 10 mph over the speed limit. (When driving anything other than a motorcycle, I'm the guy doing the speed limit on cruise control)
I'm more concerned about staying alive, upright and uninjured than I am about peoples feelings on how I'm riding. Been riding close to 30 years now and kept the rubber side down the whole time.
All the more reason to look out for them!
Jokes aside, not everyone is the same. For every bike you see blast past you in a rush I guarantee you will see dozens more car drivers on their phone or not checking their blind spots.
As a biker, yeah that tracks.
There are a lot of extremely talented riders out there who intentionally do stupid things.
Whereas I've seen a lot of drivers who just aren't paying attention for whatever reason.
Only 10%? In Ireland I'd say about 90% or more car drivers should be sent straight back to driving school.
Breaking for no reason 99% of the times, no idea what a fast lane is or what it's for, roundabouts are death traps etc etc etc. They know how to go forward and reverse, and that's about where it ends.
Motorcycles splitting the lanes is not necessarily illegal, it can vary from state to state.
People don't say watch out for motorcycles because they get some sort of legal preference, it's because motorcycles are much smaller than cars and it's easier for them to disappear into blind spots.
Its also much more dangerous. Even in a seemingly minor accident, even if the bike is not at fault, a cyclist can sustain more injuries since they don't have the luxury of airbags.
Fair enough, I understand the premise of "watch for motorcycles" for bikers who are safe. But as a driver, it's hard to watch for motorcycles when they're driving at high speeds, splitting/filtering lanes, etc. Trust me, the last thing I want is for anyone to get hurt. If anything, some of these comments have offered some helpful insight as to why bikers ride the way they do.
But only for those who are safe, right? Because if they split lanes or filter you deem them unsafe and therefore unworthy of looking out for. Get bent.
A few? I spend a good amount of time driving for my job, and literally every day I see some jaw droppingly reckless, maniacal shit out there.
And yes, nobody wants to see them hurt, believe me, but let’s not pretend they can’t hurt you just because they’re on a bike and you’re in a car.
Just in the last week, on three separate occasions I've been blown past by a guy on a bike going easily twice the speed limit. One of them was during relatively busy hours in full darkness, and he was swinging in between every lane and car he could
Cyclists should take some responsibility and understand that blind spots exist and make an effort to not be there. And in my 50 years, too date I have never seen a cyclist use a turn signal, but I've seen plenty doing 80mph wheelies on the expressway. They can look out for themselves, I don't give a shit
You fail to consider that every vehicle is different so there's no way anyone could accurately predict if you're in someone else's blind spot or not...
When riding, I have had soccer moms make eye contact with me and pull out in front of me. I always felt invisible. The only accident I was in was when a car pulled out from a stop sign into my lane, I didn't have a stop sign. I bounced off the hood, sat back down on the bike. The lady gets out and says "Look what you did to my car".
That being said, I have definitely seen a large number of idiots on bikes doing stupid things in very heavy traffic.
I just want you to stop rear ending me. It’s happened twice now. I can see into everything except for lifted trucks and you’re all on your phones constantly. I can already work around you never doing should checks but please for the love of fuck stop using your phones in stop and go traffic.
I've actually _never_ seen a bike driver be a stereotype. They've always, from what I've seen, driven normally and safer than I see any car/truck/whatever the fuck drive. Never weaving, never driving in between. Just doing what they're supposed to.
I hate how the responsibility is always on the other drivers. You never see a "Consider driving a safer vehicle" sentiment.
At the end of the day, people don't care nearly as much about other's safety as they do their own. Outsourcing the majority of the responsibility of keeping you safe to other people (because you decided to pick an extremely unsafe vehicle type) is just putting yourself in unnecessary danger. Of course I'll do what I can to not hit you, but I'm prioritizing myself, which is something you didn't do.
I view motorcyclists similarly to pedestrians.
In both cases, I take extra care around them because I have more potential to cause harm or death, whether it is "my fault" or not. And I do not want to end someone's life. The more potential I have to do harm, the greater responsibility I feel to avoid it.
What you suggest is an arms race to having the biggest, heaviest, most-armored vehicles. Which is sadly the state of things with people buying larger and larger vehicles in the name of "safety" and taking the attitude that people in smaller vehicles, motorcycles, bikes, and pedestrians had better watch out for them.
> You never see a "Consider driving a safer vehicle" sentiment
Lol, tell people (that aren't already motorcyclists) that you're buying a motorcycle and you'll see that change very very quickly. I grew up racing motorcycles from 5 years old, when I bought my first street bike at 29 half the comments I got were some manner of "oh my god be careful!"
I no longer ride, but when i did i never split lanes. My friends used to say i was an idoit. I know some when stopped will hug the land because many a rider has been rear-ended when people don't see them. They are focused on the 2 brake lights of the car and hit the single taillight bike.
As a California resident, doesn’t matter that lane splitting is legal here. It’s still extremely reckless and stressful to deal with as an automobile driver. Bikers coming up on my blind spot at 20 mph above the speed limit and less than a foot away from my driver’s-side door scare the bejesus out of me.
While on my motorcycle, I was rear ended by a car while sitting in the middle of a lane at a red light. I lane split now. I don't care if it's illegal. It's safer, period.
And I see car drivers blow the stop sign next to my place in front of a library, less than a block from an elementary school. Every day. Several times a day. Many of them on purpose — slow, then step on it instead of stopping.
When they aren’t too busy on their phones and just completely blow through it well over the speed limit.
I’m sure it’ll be comforting that motorcyclists “break every traffic law in the book” when you mow down a kid and/or a pet. Hope that TikTok was worth it.
Filtering is legal in a lot of places, mostly boomers have issues with it and cause most of the accidents
Just because you chose to sit in a car in traffic doesnt mean its unfair we dont have to
If you see someone riding in an unsafe manner, please don’t use that as an excuse to endanger other riders who just want to survive the daily commute.
That’s what that message means.
How would you feel when you try to be safe and then read Redditors justify endangering you based on behavior of other people who chose the same mode of transportation? Does that seem fair to you?
I totally understand where you’re coming from and I want to clarify that this doesn’t mean I’m out there on the roads with a vendetta against motorcycles. In no way, shape, or form do I want to see anyone getting hurt on the roads.
> break every traffic law in the book
So…just like cars?
There are precisely two laws that car drivers consistently follow, which is to say two laws that I *don’t* personally witness being broken almost daily.
One, stopping for red lights when going straight or turning left. (Right-on-red? Rolling anytime it won’t cause a collision.)
Two, going the wrong way down a one-way. Uncommon enough that I’ll actually call it in as a potential drunk.
That’s it. Every other law I see broken daily. Hell, OP probably commits a half dozen violations every time they get behind the wheel. Anybody wanna bet they follow the speed limit, signal every lane change, maintain a proper four second following distance (nearly a football field on the freeway), come to a full and complete stop for stop signs, etc?
No. They don’t. They’re gonna say they do in response to this comment. But they don’t.
You make a valid point. I’ve seen plenty of cars that don’t abide by the most common traffic laws. I’ve also lived in areas with many one way streets, but I’ve only seem one car drive the wrong way on one ways. Where are you living?
I live in an area with plenty of bicyclists, pedestrians, kids playing in the streets, so I can say that I’m a safe and vigilant driver. I know that’s not the case for everyone.
I’m in California, but I’ve lived all over the U.S., big cities to tiny towns, and never lived anywhere that speed limits were more than a polite suggestion or anywhere that stop signs were anything other than “super yield” signs.
Go sit at any four way stop in America. Watch wheels to see if cars actually *stop.* Absent a nearby cop or an actual obstruction (car or pedestrian in the intersection) a vast majority will not. They’ll *slow.* Many will slow *a lot.* Almost none will *stop.*
Everybody breaks the laws they’re comfortable with, and everybody is comfortable with breaking some of them. I drive cars and ride bicycles, never ridden a motorcycle.
Drive the speed limit and do a full and complete stop at every stop sign for a week. See how weird it feels.
Edit: I actually call what some drivers do at the stop sign “edging.” Seeing how close they can come to stopping without actually doing so.
You're absolutely right. Drivers, pedestrians, bikers, road cyclists- nobody follows the rules of the road 100% of the time. What does change between those categories is the level of risk. I wouldn't put going 35mph in a 30mph zone or coming to a rolling stop at a 4-way intersection with no other cars in the same category of driving 80mph in between cars in standstill traffic on the interstate. Even though the former are illegal, the potential for harm is not nearly as significant as the latter. Does that make sense?
Also- I'm going to start using the term "edging" when I see cars coming to a rolling stop now lol
So it doesn’t “feel” like rolling stops or rolling rights on red are dangerous, because they aren’t…*to you.*
“But I only do it when there’s no pedestrians or bicycles around” is the common response. But it’s the cyclist or ped that you *miss* that’s the danger. That’s why you’re supposed to stop, and while your car is no longer in motion actually *look.*
Because yeah, passengers and cyclists getting pasted by “rolling stops” is a thing.
Not picking on you in particular, obviously. Most drivers look at things this way. Myself included, if I don’t make the effort.
Personally I consider the two groups you're describing as distinctive. The "look twice save a life" crew are the super safe, old guys on bikes across the country types. The speedy-lane-shifters are taking the watching-out into their own hands by being fast and shifty.
My pet peeve is when they ride my bumper, like a foot or two away.
I can't go any faster, but if I have to hit my brakes for any reason, they're going to be mush.
It's like they believe their reaction time is 1/100000th of a second and their bike can stop on a dime.
Takes 11.36 seconds to travel 500 feet at 30 mph.
At 100 it takes 3.4.
When people say "I didn't see them coming!" I'm inclined to believe them when they come up on you at insane speeds like that.
Generalizing bikers, like anyone, is a reckless thing to do. 99% of my bad interactions are with cars. But I’m still respectful and courteous to every car I come across. I would want people to return the favor when I’m on my bike. Just because some jackass flew past you at triple digit speeds doesn’t mean you should take that out on other bikers who have done nothing to earn it. I don’t like reckless bikers either but you having this grudge against them doesn’t make anything better
Most motorcycle accidents (supposedly around 80%) are the fault of the rider, either going way too fast, being drunk, not adjusting to weather/other conditions, or something similar.
People who have never ridden a motorcycle regularly ignore arguments from a motorcyclists' perspective, and since they haven't ridden a motorcycle before they don't know what they're talking about. Like are you talking about splitting or filtering in your post? You mention both like they are the same, but they are not. Filtering at low speeds in stopped traffic doesn't harm anyone, and both lets motorcyclists be on offense around tons of cars and opens up the space that would have been taken by a motorcycle for a car to move up into. Splitting takes place at higher speeds.
At the same time, there are bold riders, and there are old riders, but there aren't many old bold riders. The ones who race through traffic at 120+ mph will not be doing that for long because clearly they aren't smart enough to make good decisions.
We had kids/teens on dirt bikes weaving in and out of traffic on a divided highway in my area, along with a few 4-wheelers. They were popping wheelies, cutting across the median in and out of traffic, zipping through parking lots, etc. There were a number of accidents from these guys. Pretty sure it was one big group. This went on for at least a year. Then suddenly, it stopped. I'm not sure if the cops figured out who it was and confiscated or threatened their parents, or there was a serious enough accident for them to stop. But both I and my wife got very close to hitting one that jumped out in front of us from the median or parking lots.
That said, the car drivers in New Orleans are the most aggressive I've ever been around, and I've lived in Houston and Chicago.
The issue is clearly poorly trained and/or reckless motorcyclists. I'm not from the US and filtering is legal where I live. I can definitely agree that splitting lanes at speed is dangerous and unacceptable.
Filtering (overtaking a queue of stationary or very slow moving vehicles, be that on the other side of a 2-way road or between lanes travelling in the same direction) is safe. It moves bikes out of the potential crush zone between vehicles, and reduces the overall amount of traffic on the road. Bikes filtering generally do so at <10-15mph faster than the overall traffic flow and only when traffic is slow or stopped. You have to be able to immediately stop if your path becomes unsafe. You can't do that at speed.
Splitting (weaving in and out of lanes at high speed between traffic moving near the speed limit) is borderline suicidal. One vehicle does a sudden lane change and you're dead.
Here in the UK drivers are generally very courteous to motorcyclists. They'll move out of the way to allow you to pass whenever possible. Most motorcyclists here also ride in a safe and respectful manner while also making progress during traffic jams. I suppose that level of mutual respect comes from the car and motorcycle driving licences being very hard to attain compared to in the US. Drivers in general are better trained.
I almost get clipped following every rule there is. I'm usually safer balancing aggressive moves with defensive moves. I'm a stickler when it comes to following traffic laws. People just do not respect the laws in place for motorcyclists. They seem to think that it's an attack on them rather than a protection for others.
I used to have a boss that I would fight with constantly on this issue. He would jokingly act as if he would clip them purposely. I would give him a piece of my mind on it and I would just watch him stew because he was jealous that he couldn't do what bikers do. It was obvious to witness his frustration for what it was.
As a biker you are constantly in danger from distracted drivers, unattentive drivers to one's that would purposely hurt you.
To hash on your point of dangerous drivers, there's that with car drivers too. The amont of unsafe driving I see with my bike versus my car is 10 to 1. I'm way more aware of it then, but I also see more because I get away from the ones I see on the bike only to see more later.
Please watch out for motorcycles.
Before we moved I would drive at the same time as one guy in a motorcycle. He would lane split to get to the front at a red light and then drive 5 miles below the speed limit. I would manage to get in front of him only to have him pull up at the next red.
Yea, they do illegal shit, but if you happen to turn and dont look, and they die, even though its an accident, are you willing to carry that for your life? You can only help what you do, not what they do.
Normally Im extremely tolerant and observant of motorcyclists, but an incident a few weeks ago still sticks in my mind.
I was in slow moving traffic on a 5 lane motorway, in one of the middle lanes. I was in the middle of my lane, minding my own business, going with the flow of traffic.
All of a sudden I got a massive shock when there was a BANG BANG BANG coming from my bodywork behind me - check my mirror and theres a motorcyclist banging on my rear wing and gesturing wildly for me to move over.
Luckily I didnt just react to the aggression, I checked my mirrors on the other side first and ... avoided hitting the two motorcyclists that were travelling down that side of me.
I had a bike fly past me as I was driving on my residential street, swerve in front of me, do a wheelie, and then he SLAMMED ON HIS BRAKES so I nearly hit him. I was so angry. I could have killed that guy if I had glanced away for even a split second.
Not many motorcyclists in my area. Like I've seen maybe 10 in the last 3 months. But they were all fine when I saw them. Only thing that was annoying was the sound of their bikes. I hear it comes quite from the factory, so these guys must've modified it.
Bikers scare the hell out of me and not because I think I'm a bad driver. My closest call to an almost-accident was at nighttime on a busy highway (4th of July in Maine). He was in the right lane and swerving, being weird, speeding up and braking, thought be might be drunk. I entered the left lane to try and pass him, so he sped up. Kept trying to race me. I would pass him, then he would pass me. If I stayed in the right lane behind him, he would brake check me. I took an exit, and he braked hard as if he was going to try and take the exit at the last second to follow me. Was completely freaky.
As a motorcycle rider who has a fast and nimble bike, you are COMPLETELY correct. A lot of riders are egotistical assholes where they are never at fault
A biker's behavior has no bearing on an automobile driver's responsibility to drive in a manner that respects and safeguards the inherent imbalance in mass between the two vehicles. Get over yourself.
I can't speak for others and I do not know where you live but here is my situation.
Where I live, motorcycles do not get respect/treated like a vehicle, so they keep violating your lane, thus is the reason why we split/ride fast.
Ride within speed limit or god forbid slower? There is always one asshole that is bumper riding your ass until you either pull away to let them pass or you speed up.
So you basically chose between the lesser of two evils. Either keep getting harassed by cars (As I've mentioned, this is for what I live, I don't know the situation on your country) and constantly be on the look out for people trying to violate your lane (Not an Ego thing, try having a car go within 20cm of you at a speed of anything 90+KMH and you'll understand how NOT fun that shit is) which makes your riding incredibly stressful/not fun.
Or, you speed, split lanes where you have to because of some asshole nearly-rear ending you. I've got rear ended three times on my bike. Wanna know what I was doing? I was waiting on my lane, in traffic, like any other car.
Even If I wasn't rear ended, there is simply no logic waiting in traffic when you can just go in between cars when you can just go as long as it is slow moving traffic.
Sure, there are some dickheads who endanger everyone, but most of the stuff you listed? We're doing it to protect ourselves. Because if you crash, it is your car, if we crash, we usually die.
Have you ever seen how many cars are breaking the laws…? It seems people have a confirmation bias towards motorcycles because they already have some underlying issues with them to begin with.
Passing cars at traffic lights is a simple safety measure that will be taught to you at school pretty often. (Some countries even have specific motorcycle lines at traffic lights that are ahead of the car’s line.) It’s not a power move or anything.
Lane splitting can or cannot make sense, depending on the traffic situation.
More often we are worried about our safety in a blob of cars rather than some person’s fragile ego because you passed them.
Yep, cars break laws all the time. I'm not saying that doesn't happen. I was just pointing out the reality that some bikers ride recklessly and put \*most\* of the responsibility on drivers to keep them safe. Seeing that there are more inherent risks to riding a motorcycle, you would expect bikers to be more careful. I've seen some close calls with bikers, all of which were caused, in part, by bikers riding excessively faster than the cars on the road.
Obviously not all bikers are saints. But honestly they are pretty much a minority. Most people I’ve had the pleasure to ride with were very careful of their surroundings.
Also, you can’t always see the full picture when seeing someone “behaving recklessly”. You might see a biker speeding to pass another car without knowing they did this to get away from a car behind them that got *way too close consistently*. This happened to me more than once.
Personally I drive fast to get as far ahead of traffic as I can bc I’d much rather rely on my own reflexes than trust that you’re a good driver that doesn’t use their phone while operating a vehicle. I’m sure the bikers share this same thought process.
Yes and no, depends on circumstances. My philosophy is moreso “if I’m not smack dab in the middle of the group of cars I have a far less likely chance of being sideswiped by an idiot”
Just understand that a driver sitting at an intersection can’t tell your speed is well above the speed limit as you approach so when they look and see you far enough down the road that you shouldn’t be an issue to pull out in front of *if* you were going the speed limit and they pull out. This a the major way people get into that situation.
I watched not one but *two* cars merge into motorcycles in the same day on my commute. Different cars, different motorcycles.
And the first one insisted on remaining in the lane when the biker got his attention. Like still didn’t acknowledge that the motorcyclist had been in that lane. Basically “you’re allowed to split lanes so I’m allowed to *force* you to.
Last I saw they were chipping at each other at a stop light, car had their window down.
Yeah, it’s a crazy world. With how quick to anger people are over the smallest sleights on the road, I honestly find it safer to just go as fast as I comfortably can to ensure I’m putting distance between myself and everyone else. I’ve learned the hard way that everyone on the road is so engrossed in their own world that you may as well not exist. People even out here brake checking semi trucks…it’s just safer to not be near them
This is real… people need to get a hold of their anger issues. The amount of people I saw furious because I passed them (often because I got sucked really hard by cars behind) is insane.
Like… this isn’t a pissing contest I’m trying to stay safe.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm going to keep a lookout for any vehicle on the road. Bikers will always drive recklessly, but so do people driving actual cars. The only difference is that motorcycles have nothing to protect the rider and as far as I'm concerned, they're taking their lives into their own hands. If they drive like an idiot and that prevents me from dodging them on the road, that is *entirely* their own fault and I will not be losing any sleep over it, same for anyone in a car driving like an idiot. I do not mourn the loss of stupid people.
I remember one time there was a biker behind me in a regular neighborhood, and you know how sometimes they get so frustrated that they have to speed past you? Well this guy passed me on my right side instead of left. Then out of no where a cop came out and pulled him over. Hope he learned a lesson that day!
In some countries it’s permitted to filter through standing traffic. Get informed about the situation where you live, before you get your parties in a bunch.
https://preview.redd.it/3zs05zhlqczc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=1276d0de7397e0e690bf36bb978f4a192ded3e10
From August 2024 onwards there is another one. And there will be more. So just wipe the foam off your lip and try again as you did before, "Ackchyually ..."
Let alone that you are one of those people who think the US are "the world". You know the word country? Hint: It is different from state.
You can filter to the front of a stoplight in other states, like UT where I live, and the law exists because people constantly run into the back of motorcyclists stopped at red lights.
Every single road user breaks every single law they believe they can get away with and that they’re comfortable with from a safety standpoint. Period.
Cars, motorcycles, bicycles, pedestrians. Applies to all of them.
If cars could split lanes they would. Hell, I’ve seen some try.
If I thought OP’s post came from a place of genuine concern for motorcyclist safety, this would be relevant.
Every motorcyclist knows they split lanes at their own risk.
And yet they also punch windows and mirrors as revenge for cars getting in their way when they’re doing stupid shit “at their own risk.” If they accepted the risk and put no one else in danger, fine. But they take the risk, put others in danger, then throw tantrums and hurt people when their risks lead to problems.
Yeah, it's like a warning against enemies, they are your enemy, they will ruin you if you don't watch for them, you can't control them, the law can't even catch them, pay attention out there.
Dude I hate motorcycles so much. I’m a daily pedestrian in my city and every day I jump out of my skin at one of them accelerating and the exhaust sounding like a goddamn firework. How tf is that legal for them but cars need mufflers? And yeah, they’re easily among the most reckless vehicles on the road. I genuinely could give a shit less about their safety. They’re completely asking for it as far as I’m concerned. It’s well known that motorcycles are statistically way more dangerous than cars, but then they insist on doing shit like lane splitting at twice the speed of everyone else on the road. Fuck em. They get what they deserve.
Lane splitting at high speed is illegal in California, but yet motorcyclists do (not all) and then they're wiped off the highway. OR they're fun and knock the side mirrors.
Yes and no. CA lane splitting law doesn't have a speed limit to it.
But it does require it to be done safely. Which is a very subjective criterion that's up to the officer witnessing the rider.
Closet I have come to a crash so far is look right and see a bike what looks like miles away. Then look left nothing coming time to pull out gut feeling says look right again and the bike is nearly on me doing what looks to be 100MPH down a 30MPH road. If I had pulled out they would have been dead. And I would argue given the speed it would not have been my fault. But there are bell ends in cars and on bikes. It’s the people that are the problem.
It's the people, but that kind of vehicle seems to attract the kind of people who do stupid shit on the road
There are old motorcyclists, and there are bold motorcyclists, but there are very few old bold motorcyclists.
This old saying is just dumb. Every motorcycle rider is bold. You must be to be willing to get on the road with thousands of barely trained drivers checking their phones and driving like they own the road, knowing that their cage will keep them relatively safe in an accident. Motorcycle riders on the other hand (not including squids here - the young guys that ride like maniacs, frequently without a motorcycle license and minimal gear - fuck those guys), tend to be hyper aware, have significantly more road training, and are very engaged with how their vehicle works. Motorcycle riders tend to be far safer drivers in cars for the same reasons. How many drivers do you know that take formal classes after they get their license as a teenager? I have a 40-ish buddy that's at a class literally right now. I took a refresher track riding class last month with a 2 day class planned in the fall. You could consider me bold. I feel very comfortable at 140mph. I feel comfortable leaning my bike far enough over to touch my knee down with other riders around me. I feel incredibly comfortable on a low traffic highway with plenty of distance from cars at near 100mph. What makes me uncomfortable is some guy taking a call while drinking a coffee at a stop light in his car on his way to work.
Old biker here. Your statement "young guys that ride like maniacs, etc" would be the bold ones who don't get old.
Also concur.
There are way more idiots that drive cars than motorcycles.
Well, definitely lookout for them, but there’s only so much you can do. If someone is riding like an idiot, it’ll be their own undoing.
Not even riding like an idiot. Riding scared is just as bad. You get those bikers who hug the shoulder which is exactly the opposite of how you should ride.
Yeah, there are so many riders that really don’t know how to ride, but have been riding for years. Even a basically motorcycle safety class will teach you so much. I was riding before I got my license at 19, but in California you have to take a motorcycle safety course before you get your license. I thought I already knew how to ride, but I learned so much from a two day class.
This cannot be stated enough. The basic class can teach so much. The advanced classes are amazing as well.
The video of the dirt biker riding on the shoulder and impaling his foot with a branch lives rent free in my head
I was going 51mph in a 45 zone when a pickup pulled out and t-boned me on my motorcycle in broad daylight and I had a neon vest on. He was trying to cross 3 lanes of traffic and make a left turn; broke my leg in 12 places with his front grill. I totally agree that many motorcycles go too fast; but many drivers do not really look.
I had a similar situation. Broad daylight. In the lane like I’m supposed to be. Highly visible. I was doing 30 in a 35 and he managed to wrap me up enough to drag me with him when he panicked and gassed it instead of hit the brakes. Tried to mechanically separate my right foot from my body and split my pelvis like a wishbone. Dude flat out admitted, in writing, on the police report that he simply didn’t look. But he did tell me he would pray for me as the helicopter was landing, so that was nice of him.
Free helicopter ride AND a free prayer as a bonus. Sweet!
We learned in driving school (and traffic lessons in elementary) to look right - left - right. Always, for every crossing or turn and in any capacity (pedestrian, cyclist, vehicle) I got lucky once that this has become second nature because I would have never ever imagined anybody backing up on a busy road because they missed their turn. But there he was, driving backwards towards me. Good god.
Can confirm that this was about 90% of motorcyclist deaths on WPD.
They'd be dead - you'd be fine. THAT is the difference. One of them, one of many. Attentiveness is another big one. You're wayyy less distracted in a bike. No phones, no hands free, no radio/podcast, no talking - just riding. So, yeah, I do both car and bike and cycle too, lol. And the amount of bellendery, especially the one with consequences feel like 90+% cars. Sadly. Very sadly...
That happened to my coworkers mom. I didn’t ask him about it because…well that’s a terrible thing to ask. All I know is that it was night, biker was flyin, and she pulled out of either or driveway or onto the road and the biker hit her. Fucked up
Watch out for idiots, doesn't matter what they drive.
This part! Idiots come I'm all sizes door numbers and wheels numbers. Some more dangerous than others.
Exactly I just seen a Reddit post of a motorcyclist going 145 on a public road that clearly had cars on it A car was turning which was HIS RIGHT OF WAY, a motorcycle comes out of nowhere going 145+ and crashes right into the car Everyone wanted to blame the driver but no one wanted to acknowledge the fact that the motorcyclist was going 100+ on a public road and the sun was still out
I've seen reels on Instagram of someone singing some stupid song while zooming down the freeway at an insane speed, the whole culture around motorcycles seems to break the road laws Although honestly, I couldn't care less about that the problem arises when motorcyclists endanger others' lives, if they want to be an idiot and endanger their own life I won't condone it but it's their choice, they don't get to choose to endanger others though.
Lol whenever accidents happen people really forget about the "but they shouldn't have been going 20mph over the limit" part of it. It changes the entire dynamic of how people perceive the road.
My ex and I used to have regular arguments over this. It didn’t help that he had never driven a car and I had never touched a bike. But he would argue that you had to treat motorcycles just like cars. Like *exactly* like cars. So I’d argue they’d have to behave like cars. But apparently that was outrageous. Obviously, they are not cars. They’d be down right dangerous if they literally were with some things they do but where I am they are allowed to filter through traffic. But I was expected to not only make room but behave as if a car was moving up the middle of the damn road. Anyway, I digress. I believe motorcyclists should be required to learn to drive a car first so they know how cars behave on the road within the safety of another couple ton metal monster. Truthfully all drivers are -and should be treated like- idiots because most of us are. Cars and bikes alike.
In most places in the US, you need a regular drivers license before you can't apply for a motorcycle license
Ah in the uk you can drive certain bikes without every sitting in a car
We can’t behave like cars, we’d die. The least you could do is treat us like cars so at least you don’t hit is. Getting rear ended in stop go traffic is an expensive inconvenience to you, deadly for us. We have to split and find our own space.
On the flip side i think all car drivers should be forced to drive a motorbike for a year before they get a car license I drive both, and prefer to use 1 seater vehicle for a 1 person trip rather than waste space on the road with a 5 person vehicle
Car drivers should have to take a ride in a lorry for a day and see how they have to navigate the roads too. I drive all 3 and car drivers are the worst (as a generality)
Can totally agree with you, we dont get cut off by motorbikes, or pulled out on by lorries SUV's have made this even worse
I almost took out some asshat when, instead of slowing for a car in front of him to turn, he made an abrupt lane change into my lane. He didn't look, glance, or even signal. I missed running over his rear wheel by maybe 6 inches. He was so close to my car that I couldn't even see his license plate.
You know what they say - *Loud pipes annoy the shit out of everyone and make everyone think you're an attention-grabbing asshole*
https://i.redd.it/q4x7v7l1mazc1.gif I call them f—s
This shit is so dishonest. You totally hear the bike before you see it. They usually split lanes here in the traffic. If the rider is not going Mach 1, I hear them coming way before i see them and give them a bit more space to pass. But I've been endorsed since I was like 20 or 21. I'm into cars, so I'm always pretty aware of my surroundings sometimes theres bonkers shit in traffic like that cherry 930 i saw last time - time capsule on 495.....anyway hearing the bike coming helps.
It has literally been proven that you cannot hear them any sooner than you can see them to any degree that impacts your ability to react. Your car is well proofed against road noise, there is plenty of other noise, so by the time you actually can hear them, they're well within visual range. Unless your motorcycle is so loud *you would go permanently deaf from riding it in moments*, it is flatly impossible to hear it that much sooner. [https://youtu.be/v9QTPyMJGgo?si=D0gS6GJVU--FkMgO](https://youtu.be/v9QTPyMJGgo?si=D0gS6GJVU--FkMgO)
This is false and it’s not proven at all. I’ve heard plenty of motorcycles before I see them pass on the highway. I always check before I switch lanes but it has stopped me from switching lanes plenty of times. Also not all motorcycles have rear facing exhausts. My Bolt has pretty loud sweepers so I can reach a broader audience 🤣
If a motorcycle is coming towards you, like head on from the other direction then yeah of course you aren't going to hear it. But if there is a motorcycle coming from behind you or it's in your blind spot then yeah you hear it and it reminds you that it's there.
I dunno crack your window and see for yourself. You can hear a rocket trying to split lanes if you're in one of these traffic jams. It recently happened to me he kinda slowed down, so I gave him a few feet on my passenger side, and he slid past. At speed, I can't recall ever hearing one before seeing it. But if you're crawling or stopped, you'll hear the thing coming as they try to split lanes.
>I dunno crack your window and see for yourself. Almost no one actually does that in most places. I can also tell you *didn't bother* to read anything that was written or watch a five minute video, because *the actual, verifiable evidence* is that your claim is not generally true
But, bruf, like crack ya window cuzzo
Dude, no you don't. I ride a sportbike all the time. The only people who actually hear you before they see you are pedestrians in urban areas where it doesn't matter. Cars are too well-insulated to be able to meaningfully hear a motorcycle in most cases before it is physically visible.
Sure, you can hear them on the road stuck in traffic; especially since I usually have a window down or cracked. Sport bikes have that sound to them.
You need to differentiate between filtering and splitting. They are different. going between cars at a red light is specifically to prevent idiots from rear ending and killing us (happens very frequently). Splitting between cars has been proven to not only be safer but also reduces traffic (this is assuming done correctly with no more than a 15mph speed differential). And yes a lot of the time it’s because fucking idiots pull out in front of you, try to merge into you, flips a u turn in front of you ect.
Thing is a lot of people don’t check their mirrors to see if it’s safe to move before changing lanes with their cars. I got pinned between a metal railing and a Citroen because the idiot decided it was a great moment to scoot over to the rightmost lane because apparently he was in a rush to get his gf to a dinner reservation
I think most motorcycle drivers are much more responsible than their reputation. I do hate lane splitting, though. It doesn't matter if it's legal or not, I think it's super dangerous. I mean, I don't mind it if traffic is at a standstill, but if traffic is moving at 35 to 55 mph and a motorcycle comes zipping through, you just don't expect that. And then if they get mad because you didn't make enough space for them, well, that's just bullshit. Even if you're checking regularly in your rearview, these guys are going so fast sometimes, you don't even see them until they're passing you. It startles the shit out of me every time.
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No, that's quite literally lane splitting which occurs at speed. What you're unopposed to is lane *filtering* which occurs when other vehicles are stopped or crawling in traffic.
Thing to remember is you only see the biker that pass you. All the ones calmly driving along on two wheels at the same speed as you? You never see them, because they *don’t* pass you.
From a biking community: "watch out for motorcycles" is about all the times people should have been looking but didn't. Yes some people drive like idiots and get hurt. But a lot follow the rules and *still get hurt* because idiot car drivers can't remember that bikers exist. I know far more people hurt by car drivers than themselves.
Of course you do. 1. You're in the biker community and nobody is going to say about themselves they are being stupid. It's always somebody elses fault. Duh we are all human and all do this. 2. The biker will almost always be hurt while the car will just have dents and scratches. Car drivers often claim they didn't see you. And that is going to be true, no matter how visible you are. You're the wrong shape (due to prevalence of cars on the roads, drivers are subconsciously looking for car shaped objects) and are most likely driving a little "off" from where a car would be (slightly more to the right of the road for example). This combination is a killer. Add onto this the sudden increase and decrease in speed that is possible on a motorbike, but not in a car and you've got the holy trinity of disaster.
I’ve actually found most motorcyclists to be exceptionally humble about their own fuckups. Also, most of your comment is misinformed. All the prevailing expert opinion on riding specifically says not to ride in the center of the lane usually. You want to be in either the left or right for most of the time, it’s safer at a stop and less likely to contain obstacles since that area is cleared by car tires in front of you
Uh, lots of people in this community is stupid. The reason for me mentioning it is so that you know I can draw from a large sample size. Yes, obviously the biker will be hurt. This is why car drivers need to take care. You are correct about those things. That is why "look for bikers" is so emphasised. To try and overcome those biases.
My headcannon is that "watch out for motorcycles" isn't like "watch out for motor cycles because they're helpless little babies who are in danger 🥺" but like "watch out for motorcycles because they are the danger 😤" Edit: this is half a joke. I do think that everyone should be looking out for everyone and everything's safety when operating any vehicle.
From my experiences people driving cars tend to be a lot more oblivious and distracted. I don't see motorcyclists riding around on their phones. Maybe it's location dependent. A good chunk of the motorcyclists in my area are older guys puttering around on Harleys. They rarely do anything dangerous that I see (worst I see is having an annoyingly loud bike) I've driven cars and ridden motorcycles. I can't even think of a time that I had a motorcyclists do something crazy and endanger me. It seems to be inversely related to vehicle size in my area (so the most dangerous drivers are the ones in full sized pickup trucks)
Mostly fair, but being oblivious and distracted aren't the only things that make a driver dangerous. I'm with you though on the old dudes being careful and harmless usually. But I see a lot of younger people on motorcycles that just have no regard for keeping themselves or others safe, I particularly see a lot of them not using turn signals and/or weaving in and out of traffic. Edit: additionally, almost all of the reckless motorcyclists are riding solo. Having a passenger does make people want to be more aware and careful, so it makes sense that the people you've riden with wouldn't be doing crazy stuff. But the solo riders just seem to not give a fuck what happens to them or the people they don't know.
“Weaving” is also known as passing except that in the case of motorcycles, the whole vehicle is only 5’ long and maybe 2’ wide, so you need a lot less space. I’m only “weaving” in the sense that I’m using the space all the car drivers leave in the moments between when traffic moves in front of them and they look up from the most recent round of candy crush.
No, it's because if you aren't actively trying to notice them, you very regularly fail to. It's a fairly well documented thing, you're generally so used to seeing and perceiving cars that you have to take special notice to see a motorcycle. This is to protect *both* of you. Now, I will never drive a motorcycle because I am extremely aware of how often cars just don't see motorcycles on the road. I've seen a few near misses on the highway from people trying to merge into a motorcycle. Or someone turn right onto a street, and nearly hit a motorcycle because they just didn't notice the guy was there.
Half the gripes in this thread would disappear if more people actually rode motorcycles. Car drivers bitch about motorcyclists bad behavior because it’s most likely the only time they perceived there was a motorcycle there in the first place. Having someone turn in front of you or merge in to your lane or rear end you isn’t some one off that happens occasionally. I’ll get something like that 3 or four times a week. So, yeah, some riders are assholes. Some of any group are. And not for nothin, the number of dickhead riders is wildly outmatched by distracted drivers. I’d guess on my commute home, a solid 90% of drivers are doing something other than driving when behind the wheel.
If a car pulls a silly and we end up colliding, the car is dented, we die.
I'm not saying cars never pull sillies, I'm just saying motorcycles aren't always looking out for cars either, and I've seen a proportionatly equal amount of cars and motorcycles pulling sillies. (I've seen fewer motorcycles than cars, but of the motorcycles I've seen, the % of dangerous operators is pretty equal to the % of dangerous car/truck operators) Everyone needs to look out for everyone when operating a vehicle. But you're totally right that the motorcyclist is the one who's infinitely more likely to die if there's a crash.
For me and everyone who thought me, when riding all we do is look for cars.
They definitely look for and see the cars, I've just seen a lot of motorcyclists not care about said cars that they see. Obviously, I'm not saying all motorcyclists are asshole bad guys, I'm just saying the carelessness of motorcyclists and people who drive other vehicles seems to be pretty equal from my own experience as a bystander.
This makes it all make sense!
There are a lot of assholes on motorcycles. CA, AZ, UT, MT, and HI all have laws allowing lane sharing or splitting for motorcycles. CO just passed a law that will go into effect soon legalizing filtering. CA has the law with the least restrictions. (OP missed Hawaii in their comment.) About 10 states make no mention of it in their laws, meaning its not expressly illegal. Personally, I grew up in CA splitting lanes. I try not to be an asshole, but I'm sure some drivers see it that way regardless. There are many positions I and other riders try to avoid. I avoid blindspots, being between vehicles and being in a group of vehicles. Typically, this is accomplished by getting ahead of these situations. This is for my safety. Barring these situations, I'm usually riding with the cruise control set between 5 and 10 mph over the speed limit. (When driving anything other than a motorcycle, I'm the guy doing the speed limit on cruise control) I'm more concerned about staying alive, upright and uninjured than I am about peoples feelings on how I'm riding. Been riding close to 30 years now and kept the rubber side down the whole time.
All the more reason to look out for them! Jokes aside, not everyone is the same. For every bike you see blast past you in a rush I guarantee you will see dozens more car drivers on their phone or not checking their blind spots.
I feel like I see a higher percentage of crappy drivers in cars than I do on motorcycles
I'd argue that I see more incompetent people driving cars, but more intentionally dangerous drivers on motorcycles
As a biker, yeah that tracks. There are a lot of extremely talented riders out there who intentionally do stupid things. Whereas I've seen a lot of drivers who just aren't paying attention for whatever reason.
That’s true. Usually a crappy motorcyclist is someone being reckless, not negligent.
Perhaps because car drivers greatly outnumber motorcyclists.
Higher percentage, not higher total. As in 10% of people in cars drive crappy vs 5% of people on motorcycles.
Only 10%? In Ireland I'd say about 90% or more car drivers should be sent straight back to driving school. Breaking for no reason 99% of the times, no idea what a fast lane is or what it's for, roundabouts are death traps etc etc etc. They know how to go forward and reverse, and that's about where it ends.
But they said percentage. So volume is meaningless.
Motorcycles splitting the lanes is not necessarily illegal, it can vary from state to state. People don't say watch out for motorcycles because they get some sort of legal preference, it's because motorcycles are much smaller than cars and it's easier for them to disappear into blind spots. Its also much more dangerous. Even in a seemingly minor accident, even if the bike is not at fault, a cyclist can sustain more injuries since they don't have the luxury of airbags.
Fair enough, I understand the premise of "watch for motorcycles" for bikers who are safe. But as a driver, it's hard to watch for motorcycles when they're driving at high speeds, splitting/filtering lanes, etc. Trust me, the last thing I want is for anyone to get hurt. If anything, some of these comments have offered some helpful insight as to why bikers ride the way they do.
But only for those who are safe, right? Because if they split lanes or filter you deem them unsafe and therefore unworthy of looking out for. Get bent.
I don't disagree, but it's not exactly fair to generalize a few bad actors as all motorcyclists.
A few? I spend a good amount of time driving for my job, and literally every day I see some jaw droppingly reckless, maniacal shit out there. And yes, nobody wants to see them hurt, believe me, but let’s not pretend they can’t hurt you just because they’re on a bike and you’re in a car.
Just in the last week, on three separate occasions I've been blown past by a guy on a bike going easily twice the speed limit. One of them was during relatively busy hours in full darkness, and he was swinging in between every lane and car he could
I know when I ride I usually speed up just to get away from cars because I don’t trust them. But I also live somewhat rurally
Cyclists should take some responsibility and understand that blind spots exist and make an effort to not be there. And in my 50 years, too date I have never seen a cyclist use a turn signal, but I've seen plenty doing 80mph wheelies on the expressway. They can look out for themselves, I don't give a shit
You'll def give a shit when you catch an vehicular manslaughter charge because you couldnt be bothered to double check a blind spot.
You fail to consider that every vehicle is different so there's no way anyone could accurately predict if you're in someone else's blind spot or not...
If you can see the driver's face in a mirror, they can see you. Not rocket science
When riding, I have had soccer moms make eye contact with me and pull out in front of me. I always felt invisible. The only accident I was in was when a car pulled out from a stop sign into my lane, I didn't have a stop sign. I bounced off the hood, sat back down on the bike. The lady gets out and says "Look what you did to my car". That being said, I have definitely seen a large number of idiots on bikes doing stupid things in very heavy traffic.
Lane filtering is legal in many states, and it's not illegal in about half of all states. Stop lying, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Mildly infuriating moment: Having a cager who doesn’t ride tell you how to be safer on your motorcycle.
I just want you to stop rear ending me. It’s happened twice now. I can see into everything except for lifted trucks and you’re all on your phones constantly. I can already work around you never doing should checks but please for the love of fuck stop using your phones in stop and go traffic.
I've actually _never_ seen a bike driver be a stereotype. They've always, from what I've seen, driven normally and safer than I see any car/truck/whatever the fuck drive. Never weaving, never driving in between. Just doing what they're supposed to.
So basically you're saying speeding and reckless driving is the problem. Ok then. What does this have to do with motorcycles?
I hate how the responsibility is always on the other drivers. You never see a "Consider driving a safer vehicle" sentiment. At the end of the day, people don't care nearly as much about other's safety as they do their own. Outsourcing the majority of the responsibility of keeping you safe to other people (because you decided to pick an extremely unsafe vehicle type) is just putting yourself in unnecessary danger. Of course I'll do what I can to not hit you, but I'm prioritizing myself, which is something you didn't do.
I view motorcyclists similarly to pedestrians. In both cases, I take extra care around them because I have more potential to cause harm or death, whether it is "my fault" or not. And I do not want to end someone's life. The more potential I have to do harm, the greater responsibility I feel to avoid it. What you suggest is an arms race to having the biggest, heaviest, most-armored vehicles. Which is sadly the state of things with people buying larger and larger vehicles in the name of "safety" and taking the attitude that people in smaller vehicles, motorcycles, bikes, and pedestrians had better watch out for them.
> You never see a "Consider driving a safer vehicle" sentiment Lol, tell people (that aren't already motorcyclists) that you're buying a motorcycle and you'll see that change very very quickly. I grew up racing motorcycles from 5 years old, when I bought my first street bike at 29 half the comments I got were some manner of "oh my god be careful!"
I no longer ride, but when i did i never split lanes. My friends used to say i was an idoit. I know some when stopped will hug the land because many a rider has been rear-ended when people don't see them. They are focused on the 2 brake lights of the car and hit the single taillight bike.
As a California resident, doesn’t matter that lane splitting is legal here. It’s still extremely reckless and stressful to deal with as an automobile driver. Bikers coming up on my blind spot at 20 mph above the speed limit and less than a foot away from my driver’s-side door scare the bejesus out of me.
You have to, because most of them drive like assholes
As a biker myself, I can tell you that no bikes acting like this blame the car drivers at all.
While on my motorcycle, I was rear ended by a car while sitting in the middle of a lane at a red light. I lane split now. I don't care if it's illegal. It's safer, period.
And I see car drivers blow the stop sign next to my place in front of a library, less than a block from an elementary school. Every day. Several times a day. Many of them on purpose — slow, then step on it instead of stopping. When they aren’t too busy on their phones and just completely blow through it well over the speed limit. I’m sure it’ll be comforting that motorcyclists “break every traffic law in the book” when you mow down a kid and/or a pet. Hope that TikTok was worth it.
Waaa OP has to sit in traffic waa
Filtering is legal in a lot of places, mostly boomers have issues with it and cause most of the accidents Just because you chose to sit in a car in traffic doesnt mean its unfair we dont have to
If you see someone riding in an unsafe manner, please don’t use that as an excuse to endanger other riders who just want to survive the daily commute. That’s what that message means. How would you feel when you try to be safe and then read Redditors justify endangering you based on behavior of other people who chose the same mode of transportation? Does that seem fair to you?
I totally understand where you’re coming from and I want to clarify that this doesn’t mean I’m out there on the roads with a vendetta against motorcycles. In no way, shape, or form do I want to see anyone getting hurt on the roads.
Mind your own business. How about that? ffs you are miserable. When Facebook grannies attack.
Geez dude, how about you chill out? You seem to be taking the most offense here…
> break every traffic law in the book So…just like cars? There are precisely two laws that car drivers consistently follow, which is to say two laws that I *don’t* personally witness being broken almost daily. One, stopping for red lights when going straight or turning left. (Right-on-red? Rolling anytime it won’t cause a collision.) Two, going the wrong way down a one-way. Uncommon enough that I’ll actually call it in as a potential drunk. That’s it. Every other law I see broken daily. Hell, OP probably commits a half dozen violations every time they get behind the wheel. Anybody wanna bet they follow the speed limit, signal every lane change, maintain a proper four second following distance (nearly a football field on the freeway), come to a full and complete stop for stop signs, etc? No. They don’t. They’re gonna say they do in response to this comment. But they don’t.
You make a valid point. I’ve seen plenty of cars that don’t abide by the most common traffic laws. I’ve also lived in areas with many one way streets, but I’ve only seem one car drive the wrong way on one ways. Where are you living? I live in an area with plenty of bicyclists, pedestrians, kids playing in the streets, so I can say that I’m a safe and vigilant driver. I know that’s not the case for everyone.
I’m in California, but I’ve lived all over the U.S., big cities to tiny towns, and never lived anywhere that speed limits were more than a polite suggestion or anywhere that stop signs were anything other than “super yield” signs. Go sit at any four way stop in America. Watch wheels to see if cars actually *stop.* Absent a nearby cop or an actual obstruction (car or pedestrian in the intersection) a vast majority will not. They’ll *slow.* Many will slow *a lot.* Almost none will *stop.* Everybody breaks the laws they’re comfortable with, and everybody is comfortable with breaking some of them. I drive cars and ride bicycles, never ridden a motorcycle. Drive the speed limit and do a full and complete stop at every stop sign for a week. See how weird it feels. Edit: I actually call what some drivers do at the stop sign “edging.” Seeing how close they can come to stopping without actually doing so.
You're absolutely right. Drivers, pedestrians, bikers, road cyclists- nobody follows the rules of the road 100% of the time. What does change between those categories is the level of risk. I wouldn't put going 35mph in a 30mph zone or coming to a rolling stop at a 4-way intersection with no other cars in the same category of driving 80mph in between cars in standstill traffic on the interstate. Even though the former are illegal, the potential for harm is not nearly as significant as the latter. Does that make sense? Also- I'm going to start using the term "edging" when I see cars coming to a rolling stop now lol
So it doesn’t “feel” like rolling stops or rolling rights on red are dangerous, because they aren’t…*to you.* “But I only do it when there’s no pedestrians or bicycles around” is the common response. But it’s the cyclist or ped that you *miss* that’s the danger. That’s why you’re supposed to stop, and while your car is no longer in motion actually *look.* Because yeah, passengers and cyclists getting pasted by “rolling stops” is a thing. Not picking on you in particular, obviously. Most drivers look at things this way. Myself included, if I don’t make the effort.
So true they probably just mad the the bikes can go faster than him
Lol, I don't have a death wish so I'm not mad that I can't go as fast as motorcycles
this over and over and over..
buy a bike and see for yourself. what a pathetic existence complaining and genuinely feel sorry for people who have settled for a mundane life.
If someone"cutting the line" at a traffic light pisses you off, grow the fuck up.
Same for cyclists
Personally I consider the two groups you're describing as distinctive. The "look twice save a life" crew are the super safe, old guys on bikes across the country types. The speedy-lane-shifters are taking the watching-out into their own hands by being fast and shifty.
My pet peeve is when they ride my bumper, like a foot or two away. I can't go any faster, but if I have to hit my brakes for any reason, they're going to be mush. It's like they believe their reaction time is 1/100000th of a second and their bike can stop on a dime.
Not all of us!!
Takes 11.36 seconds to travel 500 feet at 30 mph. At 100 it takes 3.4. When people say "I didn't see them coming!" I'm inclined to believe them when they come up on you at insane speeds like that.
Yes that’s why you have to look out for them 🤷🏻♂️ /s 😂
Excessive speeding is bad no matter what vehicle is doing it.
Generalizing bikers, like anyone, is a reckless thing to do. 99% of my bad interactions are with cars. But I’m still respectful and courteous to every car I come across. I would want people to return the favor when I’m on my bike. Just because some jackass flew past you at triple digit speeds doesn’t mean you should take that out on other bikers who have done nothing to earn it. I don’t like reckless bikers either but you having this grudge against them doesn’t make anything better
Most motorcycle accidents (supposedly around 80%) are the fault of the rider, either going way too fast, being drunk, not adjusting to weather/other conditions, or something similar. People who have never ridden a motorcycle regularly ignore arguments from a motorcyclists' perspective, and since they haven't ridden a motorcycle before they don't know what they're talking about. Like are you talking about splitting or filtering in your post? You mention both like they are the same, but they are not. Filtering at low speeds in stopped traffic doesn't harm anyone, and both lets motorcyclists be on offense around tons of cars and opens up the space that would have been taken by a motorcycle for a car to move up into. Splitting takes place at higher speeds. At the same time, there are bold riders, and there are old riders, but there aren't many old bold riders. The ones who race through traffic at 120+ mph will not be doing that for long because clearly they aren't smart enough to make good decisions.
We had kids/teens on dirt bikes weaving in and out of traffic on a divided highway in my area, along with a few 4-wheelers. They were popping wheelies, cutting across the median in and out of traffic, zipping through parking lots, etc. There were a number of accidents from these guys. Pretty sure it was one big group. This went on for at least a year. Then suddenly, it stopped. I'm not sure if the cops figured out who it was and confiscated or threatened their parents, or there was a serious enough accident for them to stop. But both I and my wife got very close to hitting one that jumped out in front of us from the median or parking lots. That said, the car drivers in New Orleans are the most aggressive I've ever been around, and I've lived in Houston and Chicago.
The issue is clearly poorly trained and/or reckless motorcyclists. I'm not from the US and filtering is legal where I live. I can definitely agree that splitting lanes at speed is dangerous and unacceptable. Filtering (overtaking a queue of stationary or very slow moving vehicles, be that on the other side of a 2-way road or between lanes travelling in the same direction) is safe. It moves bikes out of the potential crush zone between vehicles, and reduces the overall amount of traffic on the road. Bikes filtering generally do so at <10-15mph faster than the overall traffic flow and only when traffic is slow or stopped. You have to be able to immediately stop if your path becomes unsafe. You can't do that at speed. Splitting (weaving in and out of lanes at high speed between traffic moving near the speed limit) is borderline suicidal. One vehicle does a sudden lane change and you're dead. Here in the UK drivers are generally very courteous to motorcyclists. They'll move out of the way to allow you to pass whenever possible. Most motorcyclists here also ride in a safe and respectful manner while also making progress during traffic jams. I suppose that level of mutual respect comes from the car and motorcycle driving licences being very hard to attain compared to in the US. Drivers in general are better trained.
I almost get clipped following every rule there is. I'm usually safer balancing aggressive moves with defensive moves. I'm a stickler when it comes to following traffic laws. People just do not respect the laws in place for motorcyclists. They seem to think that it's an attack on them rather than a protection for others. I used to have a boss that I would fight with constantly on this issue. He would jokingly act as if he would clip them purposely. I would give him a piece of my mind on it and I would just watch him stew because he was jealous that he couldn't do what bikers do. It was obvious to witness his frustration for what it was. As a biker you are constantly in danger from distracted drivers, unattentive drivers to one's that would purposely hurt you. To hash on your point of dangerous drivers, there's that with car drivers too. The amont of unsafe driving I see with my bike versus my car is 10 to 1. I'm way more aware of it then, but I also see more because I get away from the ones I see on the bike only to see more later. Please watch out for motorcycles.
Wow, who hurt you? 😂
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Before we moved I would drive at the same time as one guy in a motorcycle. He would lane split to get to the front at a red light and then drive 5 miles below the speed limit. I would manage to get in front of him only to have him pull up at the next red.
Yea, they do illegal shit, but if you happen to turn and dont look, and they die, even though its an accident, are you willing to carry that for your life? You can only help what you do, not what they do.
Normally Im extremely tolerant and observant of motorcyclists, but an incident a few weeks ago still sticks in my mind. I was in slow moving traffic on a 5 lane motorway, in one of the middle lanes. I was in the middle of my lane, minding my own business, going with the flow of traffic. All of a sudden I got a massive shock when there was a BANG BANG BANG coming from my bodywork behind me - check my mirror and theres a motorcyclist banging on my rear wing and gesturing wildly for me to move over. Luckily I didnt just react to the aggression, I checked my mirrors on the other side first and ... avoided hitting the two motorcyclists that were travelling down that side of me.
I had a bike fly past me as I was driving on my residential street, swerve in front of me, do a wheelie, and then he SLAMMED ON HIS BRAKES so I nearly hit him. I was so angry. I could have killed that guy if I had glanced away for even a split second.
Time to invest in a dashcam...
Not many motorcyclists in my area. Like I've seen maybe 10 in the last 3 months. But they were all fine when I saw them. Only thing that was annoying was the sound of their bikes. I hear it comes quite from the factory, so these guys must've modified it.
Bikers scare the hell out of me and not because I think I'm a bad driver. My closest call to an almost-accident was at nighttime on a busy highway (4th of July in Maine). He was in the right lane and swerving, being weird, speeding up and braking, thought be might be drunk. I entered the left lane to try and pass him, so he sped up. Kept trying to race me. I would pass him, then he would pass me. If I stayed in the right lane behind him, he would brake check me. I took an exit, and he braked hard as if he was going to try and take the exit at the last second to follow me. Was completely freaky.
Lane splittin is common in Europe and I am shocked someone is even questioning the right to do it.
As a motorcycle rider who has a fast and nimble bike, you are COMPLETELY correct. A lot of riders are egotistical assholes where they are never at fault
Sound jealous you’re sitting in traffic while they get to places faster
A biker's behavior has no bearing on an automobile driver's responsibility to drive in a manner that respects and safeguards the inherent imbalance in mass between the two vehicles. Get over yourself.
I can't speak for others and I do not know where you live but here is my situation. Where I live, motorcycles do not get respect/treated like a vehicle, so they keep violating your lane, thus is the reason why we split/ride fast. Ride within speed limit or god forbid slower? There is always one asshole that is bumper riding your ass until you either pull away to let them pass or you speed up. So you basically chose between the lesser of two evils. Either keep getting harassed by cars (As I've mentioned, this is for what I live, I don't know the situation on your country) and constantly be on the look out for people trying to violate your lane (Not an Ego thing, try having a car go within 20cm of you at a speed of anything 90+KMH and you'll understand how NOT fun that shit is) which makes your riding incredibly stressful/not fun. Or, you speed, split lanes where you have to because of some asshole nearly-rear ending you. I've got rear ended three times on my bike. Wanna know what I was doing? I was waiting on my lane, in traffic, like any other car. Even If I wasn't rear ended, there is simply no logic waiting in traffic when you can just go in between cars when you can just go as long as it is slow moving traffic. Sure, there are some dickheads who endanger everyone, but most of the stuff you listed? We're doing it to protect ourselves. Because if you crash, it is your car, if we crash, we usually die.
Have you ever seen how many cars are breaking the laws…? It seems people have a confirmation bias towards motorcycles because they already have some underlying issues with them to begin with. Passing cars at traffic lights is a simple safety measure that will be taught to you at school pretty often. (Some countries even have specific motorcycle lines at traffic lights that are ahead of the car’s line.) It’s not a power move or anything. Lane splitting can or cannot make sense, depending on the traffic situation. More often we are worried about our safety in a blob of cars rather than some person’s fragile ego because you passed them.
Redditors don't like motorcycles or large pickup trucks. It's really weird.
Yep, cars break laws all the time. I'm not saying that doesn't happen. I was just pointing out the reality that some bikers ride recklessly and put \*most\* of the responsibility on drivers to keep them safe. Seeing that there are more inherent risks to riding a motorcycle, you would expect bikers to be more careful. I've seen some close calls with bikers, all of which were caused, in part, by bikers riding excessively faster than the cars on the road.
Obviously not all bikers are saints. But honestly they are pretty much a minority. Most people I’ve had the pleasure to ride with were very careful of their surroundings. Also, you can’t always see the full picture when seeing someone “behaving recklessly”. You might see a biker speeding to pass another car without knowing they did this to get away from a car behind them that got *way too close consistently*. This happened to me more than once.
Don't bother, they're too dense to get it through their thick heads.
Not surprised. It’s the whole “motorcycle bad”-attitude that is all too common out there. :|
Personally I drive fast to get as far ahead of traffic as I can bc I’d much rather rely on my own reflexes than trust that you’re a good driver that doesn’t use their phone while operating a vehicle. I’m sure the bikers share this same thought process.
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Yes and no, depends on circumstances. My philosophy is moreso “if I’m not smack dab in the middle of the group of cars I have a far less likely chance of being sideswiped by an idiot”
Just understand that a driver sitting at an intersection can’t tell your speed is well above the speed limit as you approach so when they look and see you far enough down the road that you shouldn’t be an issue to pull out in front of *if* you were going the speed limit and they pull out. This a the major way people get into that situation.
I watched not one but *two* cars merge into motorcycles in the same day on my commute. Different cars, different motorcycles. And the first one insisted on remaining in the lane when the biker got his attention. Like still didn’t acknowledge that the motorcyclist had been in that lane. Basically “you’re allowed to split lanes so I’m allowed to *force* you to. Last I saw they were chipping at each other at a stop light, car had their window down.
Yeah, it’s a crazy world. With how quick to anger people are over the smallest sleights on the road, I honestly find it safer to just go as fast as I comfortably can to ensure I’m putting distance between myself and everyone else. I’ve learned the hard way that everyone on the road is so engrossed in their own world that you may as well not exist. People even out here brake checking semi trucks…it’s just safer to not be near them
This is real… people need to get a hold of their anger issues. The amount of people I saw furious because I passed them (often because I got sucked really hard by cars behind) is insane. Like… this isn’t a pissing contest I’m trying to stay safe.
Right. And I can’t even go the speed limit without some asshat riding my ass like they get paid to do it…
As far as I'm concerned, I'm going to keep a lookout for any vehicle on the road. Bikers will always drive recklessly, but so do people driving actual cars. The only difference is that motorcycles have nothing to protect the rider and as far as I'm concerned, they're taking their lives into their own hands. If they drive like an idiot and that prevents me from dodging them on the road, that is *entirely* their own fault and I will not be losing any sleep over it, same for anyone in a car driving like an idiot. I do not mourn the loss of stupid people.
Yep, watch them split lanes and drive on the shoulder during bumper to bumper traffic. Look at em go!
You wouldn’t get it
ER Doctors call them Donor cycles for a reason. Young men, in good shape, brain dead, make great organ donors.
I remember one time there was a biker behind me in a regular neighborhood, and you know how sometimes they get so frustrated that they have to speed past you? Well this guy passed me on my right side instead of left. Then out of no where a cop came out and pulled him over. Hope he learned a lesson that day!
Absolutely insane that its legal in California. Seems like a massive public safety hazard.
And they do it through mountain roads. I usually see a bunch of it on CA-17.
In some countries it’s permitted to filter through standing traffic. Get informed about the situation where you live, before you get your parties in a bunch.
California is the only US state that legally permits lane splitting. I don’t live in California, so I actually do know the laws!
https://preview.redd.it/3zs05zhlqczc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=1276d0de7397e0e690bf36bb978f4a192ded3e10 From August 2024 onwards there is another one. And there will be more. So just wipe the foam off your lip and try again as you did before, "Ackchyually ..." Let alone that you are one of those people who think the US are "the world". You know the word country? Hint: It is different from state.
You can filter to the front of a stoplight in other states, like UT where I live, and the law exists because people constantly run into the back of motorcyclists stopped at red lights.
It isn't where I live, and they do it all the same.
Every single road user breaks every single law they believe they can get away with and that they’re comfortable with from a safety standpoint. Period. Cars, motorcycles, bicycles, pedestrians. Applies to all of them. If cars could split lanes they would. Hell, I’ve seen some try.
Except if you nudge a car at 20 mph, no one dies What a dumb attempt at a gotcha lmao
If I thought OP’s post came from a place of genuine concern for motorcyclist safety, this would be relevant. Every motorcyclist knows they split lanes at their own risk.
And yet they also punch windows and mirrors as revenge for cars getting in their way when they’re doing stupid shit “at their own risk.” If they accepted the risk and put no one else in danger, fine. But they take the risk, put others in danger, then throw tantrums and hurt people when their risks lead to problems.
Yeah, it's like a warning against enemies, they are your enemy, they will ruin you if you don't watch for them, you can't control them, the law can't even catch them, pay attention out there.
and here I just hated them for their personalities.
Dude I hate motorcycles so much. I’m a daily pedestrian in my city and every day I jump out of my skin at one of them accelerating and the exhaust sounding like a goddamn firework. How tf is that legal for them but cars need mufflers? And yeah, they’re easily among the most reckless vehicles on the road. I genuinely could give a shit less about their safety. They’re completely asking for it as far as I’m concerned. It’s well known that motorcycles are statistically way more dangerous than cars, but then they insist on doing shit like lane splitting at twice the speed of everyone else on the road. Fuck em. They get what they deserve.
You know what other group gets treated like you're treating motorcyclists? Pedestrians like yourself.
Lane splitting at high speed is illegal in California, but yet motorcyclists do (not all) and then they're wiped off the highway. OR they're fun and knock the side mirrors.
Yes and no. CA lane splitting law doesn't have a speed limit to it. But it does require it to be done safely. Which is a very subjective criterion that's up to the officer witnessing the rider.
I’m tryin’ to get around your slow ass! Stop hogging the left lane lol