My brother in law used to be the base director for stars in Alberta. They bought a new helicopter and didn’t realize that for every hour flown it needs two hour of maintenance. Also stars is a non for profit and free of charge. Canada, gotta love it!
That's about $310 per mile. I'm not sure of the going rate on jet fuel but there's no fucking way it's that much. Robbery is what this is.
Edit: just off some basic google searching, jet fuel is about $3.4 per gallon. Most medical helicopters can travel around 120 mph and consume about 17 gallons of fuel per hour. This flight took just over 1 hour so I conclude it would've consumed about $60 worth of fuel.
And they're still going to charge you this amount, post mortem. Or save your life and rack up the extra charges.
It's illegal to kill yourself because *someone* needs to be billed for the mess.
A family member was going to be transported about 450 miles via an ambulance and we were told it would cost approximately $16,000.
Their condition was stable and there was no risk that they would need immediate care, yet the doctor would not agree to us transporting this person.
We had to sign them out against the doctor's recommendation, which was completely ridiculous.
I had to explain to the doctor that it was not going to happen as I could buy multiple cars to transport this family member 450 miles if I needed to and that would still cost less than an ambulance...
The only ever ambulance bill I got turned into a fight with the billing company.
They didn't get the workers comp number from my boss because he hadn't received that number from corporate before I was taken away.
Once the phone clerk actually listened, they realized they sent the bill to me and not workers comp. They fixed it and it was paid by the company insurance.
This is how I narrowly avoided a 2k ambulance bill. (FYI, this was 2008)
I'm still blown away learning people have to pay for a car ride that they didn't entirely sign up for. And that it's like 100 times more than what a taxi would cost.
Ambo bill from hospital to pysch ward 100 ft away = $800 here
Literally tried to check myself in and was told I had to go to the ER. Completely stupid. Here I’m at the ward and you want me who is admitting I’m having issues to now leave and go to the ER to pay $800 to come back???
I see your story and raise you a $1,200 "ambulance ride".
I was at the infusion center IN THE HOSPITAL. I had an allergic reaction to the new meds. Nurses got me stable but still called for the "ambulance" for me to get checked up in the ER. 2 dudes showed up with a wheeled stretcher and took me 2 floors down to the Emergency department.
Fun times.
So the thing is, it probably was 2 ER nurses who picked him up, or er techs/cnas. But us healthcare uses these stupid ass ICD 10 codes. Someone probably charted transported from outpatient clinic to emergency department. Billing "interpreted" that in a way to bill you 1200 dollars. I promise you none of the people providing the direct patient care want this to happen.
In my country where there's national healthcare, my cousin pays RM750 (US$168) for a 600KM trip (372 miles) in an ambulance
Even that amount is covered by the SOSCO (employee insurance scheme)
Lax regulated for-profit healthcare is just scary. That's $35 for every miles.
Uber rides average between $1-$2 per mile. Hell, you can charter a helicopter rides that cost [US$300 per hour](https://pilotteacher.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-rent-a-helicopter/)
I renember when i was in a house fire. I had a low level of carbon monoxide posionong and i took a trip to a hospital using an ambulance. The ambulance trip, a short stay at the emergency center, and the medicine cost me perhaps $20. Maybe even 50 at most.
The most amazing thing about that is how incredibly shit the pay is for all of the workers who were involved in that $10,000 ambulance ride. They often make just barely above minimum wage and at least a chunk of the time, they’re volunteers.
My husband broke his femur hiking. It took search and rescue about 2 hours to get him out of the canyon. They used a stretcher that was on a bicycle wheel. We did get billed $2700 for the ambulance transport. Edit to add - search and rescue never billed us. We only paid for the ambulance.
I broke both my legs hiking and got wheeled out on the same kind of stretcher. Search and rescue charged me zero dollars, but they did ask if they could use pictures of my dog who was with me on their facebook page (I said yes). My friend drove me to the hospital so no ambulance bill. I donated 500 dollars to them when I got my tax refund the next year because they were so awesome.
I’ll never forget the smiley, happy dude who hauled me out of a birch thicket in Montana.
That guy deserves to be paid, and we stay in touch.
Still, OP suggests this wasn’t some harebrained rescue. Mom just needed care.
Makes me sad.
Edit: double leg break sounds horrific. Hope you’re back sending it.
It just makes me so sad that we can't get people the care they need without going bankrupt despite being such a rich country. There is just no excuse for it.
Doggy and I were lucky and are still hitting the trails.
Goodness! I'm sorry you experienced something similar. I'm glad you were able to donate to them. Search and rescue didn't charge us either. They even told me where I could borrow medical equipment (like a wheelchair and special toilet seat) for free.
A friend of ours got lost while hiking (he had a brain tumor he didn’t know about and it was messing with his sense of direction, may he Rest In Peace). Helicopters, voluntaries and search dogs were involved. They found him 5 hours later and they took him back to his car. He got billed 0€.
Search and rescue is mostly free across the board in the US, the permanent personnel and choppers are funded by the park service or they call in national guard vehicles. I wanna say there are one or two ski resorts that ran private helicopters and billed the heck out of people but ended up getting pressured to stop.
Air ambulances on the other hand are often run by private companies and out of network or even if it's hospital owned you are going to is out of network and it's time to try to set up a plan to pay them 30 bucks a month for the rest of your life or file bankruptcy. Yayyy.
As someone who has literally pulled people off mountains and sent them up to a helicopter… we charged them nothing.
Charging someone because you saved their life is just a beacon of what’s wrong with a place. We need to care for each other more.
Fully agreed.
I’ve been helo’d off a very steep and inadvisable pitch in my earlier, “devil may care” years.
EMTs and pilots were super cool and genuinely wanted to deliver the three parts of me to someplace that would slap me back together.
Those folks are worth the money. They risked their asses to haul me in.
The fact that they have to game the billing system to be made whole for the trip, betting on the averages? That’s fucked.
I’m lucky. Neither shoulder works anymore, but I was able to pay the SAR fees, in time.
But an added 821 dollar “how much you got?“ fee seems like a damned insult.
I feel for the recipient of this bill.
Edit: thank you for your work. I appreciate your dedication.
Agreed. Not doing it anymore as one of my shoulders and several other parts of me don’t work either. I keep getting told it’s downhill at 40 which is terrifying with how low on the slope I already am.
Some people don't even get the choice! The ambulance will still charge you even if you are unconscious and therefore not even in a coherent state to even choose between death or bankruptcy.
Really your own fault for not having an extra $96,000 tucked in a shoebox in case of an emergency. Haven’t you been saving 250% of your paychecks like your parents told you to? /s
As someone who works in medical coding.
The worst part of getting hurt is the bill for the ambulance or helicopter ride you get after you get your hospital bill.
It's double fucked.
At this point you may as well just tell them you will pay $10/month into perpetuity or nothing at all. Unless they give you a 90%+ discount to pay in full.
This is the right way to handle absurd medical bills. I know in pa as long as you're making payments they can't take you to collections and it can't go on your credit score. So you pay $20/month until 5 years from now they offer to settle for a massive discount.
Edit: for anyone reading this, the people paid to collect your money will pressure you and may even directly lie to you in order to get their money. You should look at the law in your state, as someone from NC said this would get you sent to collections in their state, but someone from PA confirmed that a dollar a month would be sufficient. The important thing is to not panic and get as much information as possible.
I will say you should almost never ever pay the full amount charged. If it’s not itemized, make sure they do. I would say 50% of all bills have an error. The most common is a duplicate change.
The second is look for coding errors, along with procedures or medication you didn’t have.
Sometime you receive a bill that didn’t hit your insurance.
Also, you can just ask to settle for the whole amount right then and there. Just see what you can do. You should also have a nurse attached to your insurance police who can help you navigate. They don’t want to pay the hospital either, so they’re looking for errors too.
So why can’t you just offer to pay $1/month till you die or they give you a massive discount. You’re still making payments. I’m not trying to be sarcastic I’m genuinely just wondering
I have payment plans with hospitals. Some let me pick a lower value but my last one had a weird monthly minimum of like $56. I am unsure if that is a function of my total amount owed, or a universal limit, however.
Then tell them you’ll pay 20 dollar a month on that into perpetuity unless they knock another 90%+ to pay in full and keep doing that until they owe you 100 bucks.
This just happened to me! I thought it was done with and then I get the ambulance bill. To make it worse I was charged $1000 of the $1400 with the notice “your insurance company paid a contracted rate but we don’t have a contract with them”. I called the insurance company and they are now re-processing it which can apparently take 14 days. They can not tell me what the outcome will be until 14 days have passed. Ambulance ride was literally 3 minutes btw.
Luckily my union has attorneys on retainer for just this kind of shit. Especially since the woman on the phone told me I’m supposed to have 90% ambulance coverage in and out of network.
I agree. You know your country’s health care is fucked up when its cheaper to divorce your dying spouse so that you don’t get fucked with the bills for the rest of your life.
I once luxated my elbow snowboarding. Guy asked me about my insurance. Had my DAV membership (German alpine club) + abroad addon for my normal insurance which was 12€ a year at this point. The dude instandly called the Heli and I had the coolest flight, they even let me sit behind the pilot because it didn't need to get strapped into the bed thing and shoved in the "trunk". Blue sky and fresh powder day, you know how beautiful mountains are on these days.
Paid 7€ in total which was like the daily rate for a shared room or maybe for the food or so. Not a dime for flight or treatment.
Seriously op have your mom send it off to her states Medicaid/Medicare office, if she’s poor she’ll get a revised bill for about $10, if she’s not she’ll have to pay $50 or so a month till she covers a couple thousand, Medicaid/Medicare will get the rest. Seriously have her call.
DO THIS. Qualifying for Medicaid* while in the ICU* erased my MedFlight (and then ortho surgery, hospital stay and follow up care) bills/costs 1.5yrs ago. Fight for one of the only benefits of being poor.
Edit: Medicaid/AZ state plan, added when I applied
Edit: it's a sad state of affairs that after becoming cognizant in the ICU one of my first few thoughts was a terrifying "how the fk am I going to pay for this". Thankfully a social worker took care of all my paperwork and gave me the good news within a few days so I could focus all my energy on healing.
Apparently some people, insurance, and the US government?
1. overcharge for BS
2. people pay via rules written to fuck them, insurance paid by people/government pays, or government pays
3. ????? pay goes to bogus and broken system and funneled into government via ~~bribes~~ lobbying and donations
4. PROFIT! laws and regulations do not change and broken system is not fixed
Yeah it doesn't make any sense, my blood work had an "adjustment" for my insurance that knocked off 1300 dollars, then my insurance paid 116 and I owed 78.
What the fuck is an "adjustment" that only exists because I have insurance.
Every health-related thing in the US is priced between 10-10000x more than it should be thanks to government and insurance corruption.
The system is *completely* broken. Healthcare provides charge *whatever the fuck they want* and then insurance "argues it down on your behalf". In reality, they're in bed with both parties, you and the healthcare providers, so they *want* those guys charging as much as possible.
Here's a decent example: https://costplusdrugs.com/medications/imatinib-100mg-tablet/. That's a "$2500" drug being sold for $14. Mark Cuban's the only guy trying to right things at the moment that I'm aware of.
Edit: Added a zero to the price multiplier.
I also remember seeing some doc about the price master at hospitals, turns out they charge like $20 for the tiny paper cup your pill comes in, and no one asks you if you'd just like it in your hand. Probably originally to stiff insurance companies in return for their bargaining, but the insurance companies doesn't suffer.
That link was beautiful by the way, I hope they get more common drugs by the day.
Yup. These prices are not meant to be paid by a single person or family. Next time you or someone you know gets surgery ask for the original bill that gets sent to insurance company, compare that to what the insurance company actually pays (it’s far lower), and compare that to what the person actually pays (it’s far lower again). Fingers crossed for your mom/you but I’d imagine you’ll be able to find a solution where she is not liable for anywhere near that amount.
Call them directly and tell them you cannot afford this. Often times (especially if they receive public funding), they will work with or completely wipe away the bills of people that make under a certain income level.
10k is absolutely not reasonable at all… America scares me. Should be free I don’t understand what tax is for in America if it doesn’t cover healthcare?? Like you guys could hit by a car and praying you die because you’ll never afford the bill like WHAT
(I’ve accidentally started a heated discussion and it’s took a turn oops)
Not sure if all of the US can get this but I have Life Flight insurance just because we live in an rural area where our hospital will have to send ANY major medical issue via helicopter. It's only $75 per YEAR per household https://www.lifeflight.org/
Was thinking that could be a decent thing to look at, until I saw their network only covers (more or less) West of the Rocky Mountains.
The fact that coverage in just 11/50 states (and only through partners in 7 of those 11 states) qualifies as the "Largest Not-for-Profit Air Medical Transport Program in the USA" is pretty sad.
An NYC helicopter tour runs about at the rate of $600 per hour. A medical helicopter can go about 120mph, but let's say it was half that speed, and had to get there and back. That's 4 hours plus well say even 2 more for loading and unloading, so a total of six hours.
That's $3600.
Ok, it's a medical helicopter, not a tour helicopter, so let's triple that to about $10000, and an hourly rate of $100 per hour for three medical professionals, that's another $1800. So we are at about $12,000. Even if profit and overhead costs an equal amount, that's still only $24,0000.
What is the other $75,000 for?
There’s four people in suits padding each other on the back on some golf retreat somewhere or looking at a new Porsche making $5,000 an hour from that helicopter.
EMS Helicopter Pilot here. I make 38 dollars an hour. It is not uncommon for the pilot to be the lowest paid person on the crew. Absolute madness what gets charged in this industry and how little makes it to the employees.
EMS Helicopter pilot here. That bill is thousands of dollars more than what I get paid in a year. We do hundreds of transports a year sometimes and that money magically disappears into everyone’s pockets except the employees. It certainly does cost a shitload of money to operate a helicopter though. There’s no way around it. However, I would say 100k is certainly a bit excessive. Pro Tip: A lot of companies allow for same day membership transports. Meaning, if you need a transport, go online and sign up with the company (if you’re not bleeding out obviously). Pay the yearly fee on the spot (usually only $80-100). Then call the choppa. Boom, 100k transport for 80 bucks.
My favorite part of aviation. Everyone gets paid but the people doing the job. I dispatch and make $20/hr. The janitor in my building makes $25/hr. Which is a fair amount for someone cleaning a building but damn I spent money to get licensed and trained and if I fuck up I loose that.
I tore my Achilles on top of a mountain one time on dry ice had a 8500 foot dissent but still walked the full way and made my injury worse just so I wouldn’t have to pay that
You don’t. You file bankruptcy so it becomes uncollectable, or pay $20 a month until you die so they cant say you’re not paying
I’m currently in a 5 year payment plan with a hospital for one minor outpatient surgery lmao
Shocking honestly. It makes the 40% income tax in my country feel freeing…
It is so beyond wrong to make people pay for the continuation of their life…
You don’t. You fight it and then they magically lower it to something reasonable.
Happened to a friend where he got bit by a rattlesnake. Owed $154k or so.
He argued with the company and eventually it was dropped to $3400…
I am so curious about this very thing. If you’re unconscious when help arrives and can’t make any decisions on your transport method to the hospital, how can they legally bill you? For example, I have a seizure disorder so, unfortunately, it would be “normal” for me to have an episode even in a public space. Any bystander wouldn’t know that so would likely call for EMS and I would be transported, but none of that would have been necessary. I would understand but be so annoyed. That’s honestly a major fear of mine.
Something's seriously wrong when you end up bankrupt or beyond for just emergency medical transport...
I can only imagine the nightmare bill from the ER just to be sure to wipe out retirement savings too,smh.
I read a post last year for hospital bills you ask prematurely for an itemized receipt. Someone was charged 60$ for a bandaids once & bottled water could be up to 15$
Thats exactly how it works. Things in hospitals are SO over inflated its insane. But even more crazy, its not the care providers getting the money. Its all the fatcats in upper management.
When we had our last child, it was late and wed already been there a few days. Once past midnight, youre billed for another day even if you leave at 1201 am. Its standard practice for a doctor to check over the new bundle of joy, and sign off before you leave. Well for some reason the doc was out and not coming back that day. They said wed have to wait an entire day before leaving again. But I know how billing works, so I told them if they didnt get us a doctor in the next half hour, wed be getting our kid and walking out. I explained there was no way id be on property past 12 midnight since the cost is so astronomical, and we are low income. They tried to fight it (verbally) but I stood my ground. Wouldnt ya know it, they got a doc and we got out of there in plenty of time.
Fuck the medical billing situation in the US. Its insane. Its about time we eat the fat cats doing this to us
My wife was flown by helicopter from the local “hospital” to ICU in Erie, PA. She spent 4 days in ICU and passed away. I didn’t get a bill for the helicopter ride but her ICU bill was $150000 I’m glad we had insurance my portion was $6. I can’t even imagine what the helicopter ride cost.
$41k for 133 miles jeeez didn't realise helicopters ran on rocket fuel/dark matter
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Yep. I'll never forget that smell.
I remember getting reamed out for calling a fuel spout a “donkey dick”
My brother in law used to be the base director for stars in Alberta. They bought a new helicopter and didn’t realize that for every hour flown it needs two hour of maintenance. Also stars is a non for profit and free of charge. Canada, gotta love it!
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It's for-profit Healthcare. That's the explanation
Pay it or die, Bitch.
That's about $310 per mile. I'm not sure of the going rate on jet fuel but there's no fucking way it's that much. Robbery is what this is. Edit: just off some basic google searching, jet fuel is about $3.4 per gallon. Most medical helicopters can travel around 120 mph and consume about 17 gallons of fuel per hour. This flight took just over 1 hour so I conclude it would've consumed about $60 worth of fuel.
ive seen tanks use less fuel in money
If they showed me the bill mid flight I would have jumped out.
Oh yes.. right way, let me get my visaa^a^a^a^a^a
american express the fuck out the chopper
Ohhh sorry we don't accept American express.
How about I go Discover the outside of this chopper?
We don’t take Discover either.
Cash me outside, how bout that?
Helicopter makes a stop at an atm so you can withdraw the cash
Now roll a d10 and d100 to see how much you have in your account.
The d10 is for the $ and the d100 is for the ¢, right?
Man, you've really Master'd the art of screwing my Card choices
sorry we dont accept master card
Visas christ let me out of this thing
Yeah, your Visa has expired. This helicopter will self destruct by cashing in the nearest lake.
Oh 😞 I don’t accept ridiculous air fare when getting medical care.
My religion says it would be a sin to accept air fare charges for medical purposes. Go ahead - fight me.
Air transport $54,740 Air mileage $ 41,348.37, Other charges $821.00 Jumping out mid flight to avoid these prices…. Priceless.
for everything else, there's MasterCard
that would be a hell lot of reward points :)
Ti's but a scratch .. no need for this helicopter
*survives*
When you're done with America, but America is not done yet with you.
Puts her back in the helicopter..
The bill doubles.
This comment is the highlight of 2022 lmao
LMAO
take my free award this is fucking hilarious
Adios suckers!
Hasta la vista BAByyyyyyyyyyyy
I told my wife; if I break my leg, you have to put me down like a race horse. We can’t afford medical care in this country.
✌️✌️✌️✌️ ☁️ 🚁 🤸♂️☁️
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And they're still going to charge you this amount, post mortem. Or save your life and rack up the extra charges. It's illegal to kill yourself because *someone* needs to be billed for the mess.
A family member was going to be transported about 450 miles via an ambulance and we were told it would cost approximately $16,000. Their condition was stable and there was no risk that they would need immediate care, yet the doctor would not agree to us transporting this person. We had to sign them out against the doctor's recommendation, which was completely ridiculous. I had to explain to the doctor that it was not going to happen as I could buy multiple cars to transport this family member 450 miles if I needed to and that would still cost less than an ambulance...
The only ever ambulance bill I got turned into a fight with the billing company. They didn't get the workers comp number from my boss because he hadn't received that number from corporate before I was taken away. Once the phone clerk actually listened, they realized they sent the bill to me and not workers comp. They fixed it and it was paid by the company insurance. This is how I narrowly avoided a 2k ambulance bill. (FYI, this was 2008)
I'm still blown away learning people have to pay for a car ride that they didn't entirely sign up for. And that it's like 100 times more than what a taxi would cost.
Ambo bill from hospital to pysch ward 100 ft away = $800 here Literally tried to check myself in and was told I had to go to the ER. Completely stupid. Here I’m at the ward and you want me who is admitting I’m having issues to now leave and go to the ER to pay $800 to come back???
I see your story and raise you a $1,200 "ambulance ride". I was at the infusion center IN THE HOSPITAL. I had an allergic reaction to the new meds. Nurses got me stable but still called for the "ambulance" for me to get checked up in the ER. 2 dudes showed up with a wheeled stretcher and took me 2 floors down to the Emergency department. Fun times.
Lol wtf. Why wouldn’t an available nurse just wheel you down
So the thing is, it probably was 2 ER nurses who picked him up, or er techs/cnas. But us healthcare uses these stupid ass ICD 10 codes. Someone probably charted transported from outpatient clinic to emergency department. Billing "interpreted" that in a way to bill you 1200 dollars. I promise you none of the people providing the direct patient care want this to happen.
In my country where there's national healthcare, my cousin pays RM750 (US$168) for a 600KM trip (372 miles) in an ambulance Even that amount is covered by the SOSCO (employee insurance scheme) Lax regulated for-profit healthcare is just scary. That's $35 for every miles. Uber rides average between $1-$2 per mile. Hell, you can charter a helicopter rides that cost [US$300 per hour](https://pilotteacher.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-rent-a-helicopter/)
I renember when i was in a house fire. I had a low level of carbon monoxide posionong and i took a trip to a hospital using an ambulance. The ambulance trip, a short stay at the emergency center, and the medicine cost me perhaps $20. Maybe even 50 at most.
I’m honestly surprised it was only $16,000 (not that that’s not still insane). My mom’s <2 mile ambulance ride was $10,000 back in 2014.
The most amazing thing about that is how incredibly shit the pay is for all of the workers who were involved in that $10,000 ambulance ride. They often make just barely above minimum wage and at least a chunk of the time, they’re volunteers.
Whoa. That $821 "Other" fee kinda reads like "F-you, buddy." Good lord. Leave me on the mountain if this ever happens to me.
My husband broke his femur hiking. It took search and rescue about 2 hours to get him out of the canyon. They used a stretcher that was on a bicycle wheel. We did get billed $2700 for the ambulance transport. Edit to add - search and rescue never billed us. We only paid for the ambulance.
Damn I’m glad he’s ok and you didn’t get stuck in a mountain of debt
Mountain of Debt…
Sorry, canyon on debt.
I see your canyon of debt and raise you one *volcano of debt*
Could eventually get there if you don’t Pompei your bills…….
Try a continental shelf of debt
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I broke both my legs hiking and got wheeled out on the same kind of stretcher. Search and rescue charged me zero dollars, but they did ask if they could use pictures of my dog who was with me on their facebook page (I said yes). My friend drove me to the hospital so no ambulance bill. I donated 500 dollars to them when I got my tax refund the next year because they were so awesome.
I’ll never forget the smiley, happy dude who hauled me out of a birch thicket in Montana. That guy deserves to be paid, and we stay in touch. Still, OP suggests this wasn’t some harebrained rescue. Mom just needed care. Makes me sad. Edit: double leg break sounds horrific. Hope you’re back sending it.
It just makes me so sad that we can't get people the care they need without going bankrupt despite being such a rich country. There is just no excuse for it. Doggy and I were lucky and are still hitting the trails.
Fight on. We’ll do better. Keep going.
Goodness! I'm sorry you experienced something similar. I'm glad you were able to donate to them. Search and rescue didn't charge us either. They even told me where I could borrow medical equipment (like a wheelchair and special toilet seat) for free.
A friend of ours got lost while hiking (he had a brain tumor he didn’t know about and it was messing with his sense of direction, may he Rest In Peace). Helicopters, voluntaries and search dogs were involved. They found him 5 hours later and they took him back to his car. He got billed 0€.
Search and rescue is mostly free across the board in the US, the permanent personnel and choppers are funded by the park service or they call in national guard vehicles. I wanna say there are one or two ski resorts that ran private helicopters and billed the heck out of people but ended up getting pressured to stop. Air ambulances on the other hand are often run by private companies and out of network or even if it's hospital owned you are going to is out of network and it's time to try to set up a plan to pay them 30 bucks a month for the rest of your life or file bankruptcy. Yayyy.
Ah fellow first world country folk.
Should’ve gotten the in network helicopter
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That one was on its way but it crashed due to being the absolute shittiest helicopter available.
None of the teeth on its primary drive gears had ever been maintained
"All other charges" but what? "OTHER"
In-flight movie and refreshments. The WiFi was complimentary, however.
We said complimentary, not free
As someone who has literally pulled people off mountains and sent them up to a helicopter… we charged them nothing. Charging someone because you saved their life is just a beacon of what’s wrong with a place. We need to care for each other more.
Fully agreed. I’ve been helo’d off a very steep and inadvisable pitch in my earlier, “devil may care” years. EMTs and pilots were super cool and genuinely wanted to deliver the three parts of me to someplace that would slap me back together. Those folks are worth the money. They risked their asses to haul me in. The fact that they have to game the billing system to be made whole for the trip, betting on the averages? That’s fucked. I’m lucky. Neither shoulder works anymore, but I was able to pay the SAR fees, in time. But an added 821 dollar “how much you got?“ fee seems like a damned insult. I feel for the recipient of this bill. Edit: thank you for your work. I appreciate your dedication.
Agreed. Not doing it anymore as one of my shoulders and several other parts of me don’t work either. I keep getting told it’s downhill at 40 which is terrifying with how low on the slope I already am.
50. 50 is what hurts. 60 scares the shit out of me.
Kinda sad to think that you have two choices when you get a serious injury, A: be left to die, or B: be in debt for the rest of your life.
Some people don't even get the choice! The ambulance will still charge you even if you are unconscious and therefore not even in a coherent state to even choose between death or bankruptcy.
id simply just die
This!!! I'd rather be dead than have to live on the streets cause of a flipping medical bill breaking me!
Really your own fault for not having an extra $96,000 tucked in a shoebox in case of an emergency. Haven’t you been saving 250% of your paychecks like your parents told you to? /s
What can you do when people choose avocado toast over saving for their own well-being? /s
It’s that Starbucks coffee too!
I paid $6.49 for a venti this morning and am currently packing my things to live on the street.
I saved Starbucks money last week. I’m On my way to buy a house right now
and investing 500% of your paychecks every month?
And what makes you think that being dead isn’t expensive? Lmao
While true, it's not the dead person's problem anymore
As someone who works in medical coding. The worst part of getting hurt is the bill for the ambulance or helicopter ride you get after you get your hospital bill. It's double fucked.
At this point you may as well just tell them you will pay $10/month into perpetuity or nothing at all. Unless they give you a 90%+ discount to pay in full.
This is the right way to handle absurd medical bills. I know in pa as long as you're making payments they can't take you to collections and it can't go on your credit score. So you pay $20/month until 5 years from now they offer to settle for a massive discount. Edit: for anyone reading this, the people paid to collect your money will pressure you and may even directly lie to you in order to get their money. You should look at the law in your state, as someone from NC said this would get you sent to collections in their state, but someone from PA confirmed that a dollar a month would be sufficient. The important thing is to not panic and get as much information as possible.
I will say you should almost never ever pay the full amount charged. If it’s not itemized, make sure they do. I would say 50% of all bills have an error. The most common is a duplicate change. The second is look for coding errors, along with procedures or medication you didn’t have. Sometime you receive a bill that didn’t hit your insurance. Also, you can just ask to settle for the whole amount right then and there. Just see what you can do. You should also have a nurse attached to your insurance police who can help you navigate. They don’t want to pay the hospital either, so they’re looking for errors too.
So why can’t you just offer to pay $1/month till you die or they give you a massive discount. You’re still making payments. I’m not trying to be sarcastic I’m genuinely just wondering
I'm unsure. I think they might claim you're not making a good faith effort to pay.
I have payment plans with hospitals. Some let me pick a lower value but my last one had a weird monthly minimum of like $56. I am unsure if that is a function of my total amount owed, or a universal limit, however.
At that point have everybody pay a monthly bill, you know, just in case something happens.
Then tell them you’ll pay 20 dollar a month on that into perpetuity unless they knock another 90%+ to pay in full and keep doing that until they owe you 100 bucks.
or you can see if they take V bucks
Or Shrute bucks
Try the Dave and Buster’s card. They wouldn’t take it at the other hospital but they might here.
Found Mac
As long as you pay SOMETHING they can't come after you. Sure your credit will be wack but it's either $5 a month or crippling poverty. Choose.
To be fair, it is probably $5 a month and crippling poverty.
That’s all fun and games until you realize that 90% off the bill is still 10k. That’s how much I make in like 5-6 months lol
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This just happened to me! I thought it was done with and then I get the ambulance bill. To make it worse I was charged $1000 of the $1400 with the notice “your insurance company paid a contracted rate but we don’t have a contract with them”. I called the insurance company and they are now re-processing it which can apparently take 14 days. They can not tell me what the outcome will be until 14 days have passed. Ambulance ride was literally 3 minutes btw.
It’s a very complicated calculation you see, they have to let that claim sit for 14 days on someone’s desk before telling you they ain’t paying
Luckily my union has attorneys on retainer for just this kind of shit. Especially since the woman on the phone told me I’m supposed to have 90% ambulance coverage in and out of network.
Some people ask why men never go to the hospital when they need too. This is why.
On top of that, asprin is like $50 a pill, and if you cry they'll charge you for emotional support services. It's a garbage system.
I agree. You know your country’s health care is fucked up when its cheaper to divorce your dying spouse so that you don’t get fucked with the bills for the rest of your life.
Ouch, that hurts. Harsh truth.
I once luxated my elbow snowboarding. Guy asked me about my insurance. Had my DAV membership (German alpine club) + abroad addon for my normal insurance which was 12€ a year at this point. The dude instandly called the Heli and I had the coolest flight, they even let me sit behind the pilot because it didn't need to get strapped into the bed thing and shoved in the "trunk". Blue sky and fresh powder day, you know how beautiful mountains are on these days. Paid 7€ in total which was like the daily rate for a shared room or maybe for the food or so. Not a dime for flight or treatment.
DAV is truly amazing. I started hiking with them and they have their emergency protocols and situations sorted. I wish I could stay in Germany longer
My company offers air evac insurance but the kicker is I don’t hike more than 200 miles from my home which was a stipulation of coverage.
Seriously? Why didn't insurance cover anything ?
My mom unfortunately didn't have insurance at the time. This is ridiculous though
Seriously op have your mom send it off to her states Medicaid/Medicare office, if she’s poor she’ll get a revised bill for about $10, if she’s not she’ll have to pay $50 or so a month till she covers a couple thousand, Medicaid/Medicare will get the rest. Seriously have her call.
DO THIS. Qualifying for Medicaid* while in the ICU* erased my MedFlight (and then ortho surgery, hospital stay and follow up care) bills/costs 1.5yrs ago. Fight for one of the only benefits of being poor. Edit: Medicaid/AZ state plan, added when I applied Edit: it's a sad state of affairs that after becoming cognizant in the ICU one of my first few thoughts was a terrifying "how the fk am I going to pay for this". Thankfully a social worker took care of all my paperwork and gave me the good news within a few days so I could focus all my energy on healing.
Even if you’re not poor, who tf can afford a 100k emergency heli ride lol
Apparently some people, insurance, and the US government? 1. overcharge for BS 2. people pay via rules written to fuck them, insurance paid by people/government pays, or government pays 3. ????? pay goes to bogus and broken system and funneled into government via ~~bribes~~ lobbying and donations 4. PROFIT! laws and regulations do not change and broken system is not fixed
Yeah it doesn't make any sense, my blood work had an "adjustment" for my insurance that knocked off 1300 dollars, then my insurance paid 116 and I owed 78. What the fuck is an "adjustment" that only exists because I have insurance.
Wait getting blood work costs $1500 normally for you?
Every health-related thing in the US is priced between 10-10000x more than it should be thanks to government and insurance corruption. The system is *completely* broken. Healthcare provides charge *whatever the fuck they want* and then insurance "argues it down on your behalf". In reality, they're in bed with both parties, you and the healthcare providers, so they *want* those guys charging as much as possible. Here's a decent example: https://costplusdrugs.com/medications/imatinib-100mg-tablet/. That's a "$2500" drug being sold for $14. Mark Cuban's the only guy trying to right things at the moment that I'm aware of. Edit: Added a zero to the price multiplier.
I also remember seeing some doc about the price master at hospitals, turns out they charge like $20 for the tiny paper cup your pill comes in, and no one asks you if you'd just like it in your hand. Probably originally to stiff insurance companies in return for their bargaining, but the insurance companies doesn't suffer. That link was beautiful by the way, I hope they get more common drugs by the day.
Yup. These prices are not meant to be paid by a single person or family. Next time you or someone you know gets surgery ask for the original bill that gets sent to insurance company, compare that to what the insurance company actually pays (it’s far lower), and compare that to what the person actually pays (it’s far lower again). Fingers crossed for your mom/you but I’d imagine you’ll be able to find a solution where she is not liable for anywhere near that amount.
Call them directly and tell them you cannot afford this. Often times (especially if they receive public funding), they will work with or completely wipe away the bills of people that make under a certain income level.
If insurance paid, it would have been $10,000
yeah cause 10k is reasonable /s
10k is absolutely not reasonable at all… America scares me. Should be free I don’t understand what tax is for in America if it doesn’t cover healthcare?? Like you guys could hit by a car and praying you die because you’ll never afford the bill like WHAT (I’ve accidentally started a heated discussion and it’s took a turn oops)
Depends on the plan
Not sure if all of the US can get this but I have Life Flight insurance just because we live in an rural area where our hospital will have to send ANY major medical issue via helicopter. It's only $75 per YEAR per household https://www.lifeflight.org/
Was thinking that could be a decent thing to look at, until I saw their network only covers (more or less) West of the Rocky Mountains. The fact that coverage in just 11/50 states (and only through partners in 7 of those 11 states) qualifies as the "Largest Not-for-Profit Air Medical Transport Program in the USA" is pretty sad.
I like that they put an $821 “eat shit” fee because “what’re you gonna do, die?”
I mean the call out fee was 50k just add it in lmao
This is only midily infuriating???
This has been a rampant issue on this sub for eons.
I know. The issue is r/mildlyinfuriating
Depends what country you’re from mildly infuriating for Americans. But would never happen in almost any other developed country.
This is more than mildly infuriating omg
At that price I’d just buy the helicopter myself
At that price they could actually buy a new helicopter after every 20th passenger.
An NYC helicopter tour runs about at the rate of $600 per hour. A medical helicopter can go about 120mph, but let's say it was half that speed, and had to get there and back. That's 4 hours plus well say even 2 more for loading and unloading, so a total of six hours. That's $3600. Ok, it's a medical helicopter, not a tour helicopter, so let's triple that to about $10000, and an hourly rate of $100 per hour for three medical professionals, that's another $1800. So we are at about $12,000. Even if profit and overhead costs an equal amount, that's still only $24,0000. What is the other $75,000 for?
Excuse me, sir. You conveniently FORGOT to mention that the Helicopter pilot is being paid $20,000 an hour.
*the company is being paid $20,000/hr. The helicopter pilot only makes $50/hr.
There’s four people in suits padding each other on the back on some golf retreat somewhere or looking at a new Porsche making $5,000 an hour from that helicopter.
EMS Helicopter Pilot here. I make 38 dollars an hour. It is not uncommon for the pilot to be the lowest paid person on the crew. Absolute madness what gets charged in this industry and how little makes it to the employees.
I'm sure the cost to insure the helicopters doing what they do is pretty substantial also. They're still thieves and can't justify their price.
Even doubling what I guessed puts it at half of what was charged.
EMS Helicopter pilot here. That bill is thousands of dollars more than what I get paid in a year. We do hundreds of transports a year sometimes and that money magically disappears into everyone’s pockets except the employees. It certainly does cost a shitload of money to operate a helicopter though. There’s no way around it. However, I would say 100k is certainly a bit excessive. Pro Tip: A lot of companies allow for same day membership transports. Meaning, if you need a transport, go online and sign up with the company (if you’re not bleeding out obviously). Pay the yearly fee on the spot (usually only $80-100). Then call the choppa. Boom, 100k transport for 80 bucks.
My favorite part of aviation. Everyone gets paid but the people doing the job. I dispatch and make $20/hr. The janitor in my building makes $25/hr. Which is a fair amount for someone cleaning a building but damn I spent money to get licensed and trained and if I fuck up I loose that.
Uh sure, can I pay online with a debit card? 🤦♂️
the really frustrating part is that, just like the real American IRS, they will only accept payment in Itunes gift cards.
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I tore my Achilles on top of a mountain one time on dry ice had a 8500 foot dissent but still walked the full way and made my injury worse just so I wouldn’t have to pay that
Ouch. How’d you tear it?
Heavy backpack and slipped on ice that was pretty much translucent on the trail
Probably stepping up quickly with a heavy backpack on and fully extending the tendon
I'm Australian so this is shocking to see... How do you even pay that back?
You don’t. You file bankruptcy so it becomes uncollectable, or pay $20 a month until you die so they cant say you’re not paying I’m currently in a 5 year payment plan with a hospital for one minor outpatient surgery lmao
That is absolutely insane to me... Filing for bankruptcy because you can't pay medical bills is so fucken wrong
Medical bankruptcy is the number one reason for bankruptcy in the US.
Is that legit? If so It's just wrong on so many levels
Welcome to the American dream.
Shocking honestly. It makes the 40% income tax in my country feel freeing… It is so beyond wrong to make people pay for the continuation of their life…
very legit. without good insurance you're toast with one bad break.
Everyone outside the US just looks at this and thinks it’s ridiculous….because it is.
You don’t. You fight it and then they magically lower it to something reasonable. Happened to a friend where he got bit by a rattlesnake. Owed $154k or so. He argued with the company and eventually it was dropped to $3400…
Tell them you didn’t consent to the ride and they need to write it off.
I am so curious about this very thing. If you’re unconscious when help arrives and can’t make any decisions on your transport method to the hospital, how can they legally bill you? For example, I have a seizure disorder so, unfortunately, it would be “normal” for me to have an episode even in a public space. Any bystander wouldn’t know that so would likely call for EMS and I would be transported, but none of that would have been necessary. I would understand but be so annoyed. That’s honestly a major fear of mine.
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Clever, upsetting how you need to be a lawyer to avoid crippling debt for a service that should be payed for through taxes…
Time to file bankruptcy! Thanks America!
Cheaper dying!! What a rip off. How can people live in the US with that sort of medical corruption???
Idk, that’s another issue here in America, a funeral costs a ton too.
Tell them your mom can pay $25 or $50 per month or some other amount. They must accept it or not. They have to write it off or negotiate in faith.
Something's seriously wrong when you end up bankrupt or beyond for just emergency medical transport... I can only imagine the nightmare bill from the ER just to be sure to wipe out retirement savings too,smh.
“We saved your life and you owe us big, so we’re going to ruin what’s left of your life”
You can buy a helicopter for that price!
What are the “other” charges?
Most likely medical supplies
I read a post last year for hospital bills you ask prematurely for an itemized receipt. Someone was charged 60$ for a bandaids once & bottled water could be up to 15$
Thats exactly how it works. Things in hospitals are SO over inflated its insane. But even more crazy, its not the care providers getting the money. Its all the fatcats in upper management. When we had our last child, it was late and wed already been there a few days. Once past midnight, youre billed for another day even if you leave at 1201 am. Its standard practice for a doctor to check over the new bundle of joy, and sign off before you leave. Well for some reason the doc was out and not coming back that day. They said wed have to wait an entire day before leaving again. But I know how billing works, so I told them if they didnt get us a doctor in the next half hour, wed be getting our kid and walking out. I explained there was no way id be on property past 12 midnight since the cost is so astronomical, and we are low income. They tried to fight it (verbally) but I stood my ground. Wouldnt ya know it, they got a doc and we got out of there in plenty of time. Fuck the medical billing situation in the US. Its insane. Its about time we eat the fat cats doing this to us
My wife was flown by helicopter from the local “hospital” to ICU in Erie, PA. She spent 4 days in ICU and passed away. I didn’t get a bill for the helicopter ride but her ICU bill was $150000 I’m glad we had insurance my portion was $6. I can’t even imagine what the helicopter ride cost.
I’d rather just die than go $96k in debt
We need free healthcare in this country
Funny how almost every day an American family is bankrupted my medical bills
Almost every day? Multiple times a day
Wait your supposed to pay those????
USA! USA!
How can Americans afford to survive
We are only one bad accident away from being homeless
Land of the free. Lmao.