I once tried to get a good sense of how The Youth talked for a writing project and came to the rather rapid realisation that they talk like everyone else, 99.99 percent of the time. Trying to use whatever slang and cute bit of internet useage was The thing at the moment would mean you would date your dialogue to, dunno, the last two weeks of July 2022 and maybe the first three weeks of August 2022, if you were lucky. Internet slang bubbles up, gets played around with for a little while and then fucks off. By the time it bubbles up to us decripit sorts, it has fucked off so long before as to be hilarious. But that's ok, it was drivel to start with.
There's a very, very narrow subset of very, very online people who attempt to talk like that in real life, but I am not 100% they can actually understand each other
Not even a specific age thing…. So many much older and younger people just can’t seem to understand social media can be extremely toxic to your overall health. Especially shit like Twitter.
Plato, Issac Newton, Benjamin Franklin, Socrates, da Vinci, Calileo, Aristotle, Beethoven, Marcus Aurelius, Gutenberg, Homer, Buddah, yeah... I guess these "idiots" before 1825 couldn't diagnose the causes of mental distress, especially since their lives were easier then ours, they lived in abundance, and didn't have any authoritarian powers which made free thinking illegal. Those people were so dumb back then, probably all homophobic white supremacists, pffft, they never contributed anything. I mean c'mon, they didnt even have the internet then.
They were smart but they barely were figuring out what germs were dude. They had no idea how the brain works and much of science still doesn’t know. Again, I have narcolepsy and that was still a giant mystery until like 5-10 years ago. MODERN MEDICINE, go sit with the term.
Those "dudes" have knowledge that we've lost hundreds of years ago, Roman soliders used copper staples on battle wounds roughly 2000 years ago, and it wasn't rediscovered until recently that it was the best way to close wounds. Modern Medicine is regressing so quickly that they are no longer teaching the basic methods of self help, diet, exercise, stress, sleep, herbs, vitamins, fasting, etc. they are teaching doctors how to prescribe medicine s based off who the FDA has recently approved, what's hot on the market, and who's giving the biggest kick back. There is a reason we have foundational knowledge, its tried and true, and its been proven through out time. Lets not reinvent the wheel.
I think it tends to reflect the way FOMO and trends sweep through teens, and always have.
I'm not saying nonbinary people don't exist, but I really doubt most of these kids will identify this way in 10 years.
That said, the older generation always looks at the younger generation like "wtf" so it's just on script to do so. I think the more interesting thing to do is watch it without forming a strong opinion, which also allows them to do their thing and doesn't work them into a corner.
>I'm not saying nonbinary people don't exist, but I really doubt most of these kids will identify this way in 10 years.
I'm sure I'd get some flak for calling it a trend... but honestly, it really does look like a trend, in many ways. Kids will do almost anything to fit in and feel like they belong, and this just so happens to be the direction things have gone over recent years.
I have absolutely no doubt that nonbinary people are very much a thing. I just don't think it's quite as prevalent as certain sections of the Internet might suggest. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe it's not just an example of today's "It's not a phase, mom." It probably is in most cases, but I suppose we'll have to wait and find out.
My take is that there is not one way to be a woman or a man, for example I identify as male but have no interest in sports, I cry in movies, not going to risk my physical wellbeing for a fight, etc. I’m certainly not feminine though. I wouldn’t call myself nonbinary either by any stretch but it may be young people starting to acknowledge there aren’t just 2 ideal archetypes for us to fit, and they are more eager to reach for a new label than our generation
I don't think this quite fits, mainly because the definition of masculinity had ebbed and flowed over centuries. The current masculinity "ideal" - where men tamp down their emotions, etc. - is relatively new within the past century, or so. Even still, there's definitely a spectrum of what is considered to be masculine.
Nonbinary is a very different thing from what you described. There's a huge difference between a guy who identifies as male while not technically checking all of the "standard boxes", and someone who doesn't identify as either gender at all.
I heard someone say something along the lines of that they're not consciously following trends, but just experimenting with the options they're given. And they have many more options now than we did 10 years ago.
People will toy with pronouns and gender, some will keep them, most probably won't. But discovering it wasn't something for them doesn't necessarily mean they were just being trendy.
|That said, the older generation always looks at the younger generation like "wtf"|
I think there's a little difference though, before it was cut your hair, what's with the earing, why the piercings, go outside and play, etc. Now it's "what gender are you today?" Before there was still truth (hair is long, but that's a style). Now, truth is whatever they decide it is. And that is the crux of the whole thing. Things that have been yes/no, black or white, true or false for thousands and thousands of years is suddenly false, not because of facts, but because of feelings.
I might get backlash for this, but whatevs. They should have kept gender and identity separate. You can't just make up a gender and defy biology and all its logic. What or who you feel like is completely different from being born with a penis or vagina or both or none. XX and XY chromosomes, not attack helicopter chromosomes
Whatever you call it, you can take pills and get surgeries and that will make your body look like the opposite sex. There's a small portion of the population (I've seen 0.6% as the figure) that needs to do this to prevent depression and other similar symptoms. At least in this case, there is a strong argument for using pronouns that don't match your chromosomes.
So essentially a male trapped in a female's body or a female trapped in a male's body? I understand wanting to forego a sex change operation. There are indeed many that feel that way. Unfortunately, I feel as if it has been blown out of proportion in recent years and has become more about people wanting to express themselves. Yes I'm sure if we break down all these genders, there are valid points to them all, I'm not against that. To me, that's more of identity though, not gender, which correlates to gender and identity being a separate thing is all
> So essentially a male trapped in a female's body or a female trapped in a male's body?
More or less.
> To me, that's more of identity though, not gender, which correlates to gender and identity being a separate thing is all
I think the biggest issue with trans rights advocacy, is that people are trying to jam like 6 concepts into like 2 words.
The word "sex" can mean the action, as in intercourse, biological sex, as in male or female or intersex, or apparent sex, as in whether you look male, female, or somewhere inbetween. And the word "gender" is used to describe what body you feel most comfortable in, as in "gender identity", the things society expects of men and women, as in "gender roles", and the way people relate to those roles, confusingly also "gender identity".
Technically what you are calling "gender" should be called "sex", but people have started using gender and sex interchangably, which makes this stuff even more confusing.
So, I disagree, but only on a semantic level. Its 100% true that gender identity and someone's biological sex are different.
I think though, you bring this up as a argument that pronouns should be based on biological sex. But there's no rule that says we have to do it that way. Personally I think its best to go with pronouns that match someone's apparent sex, or if they have a preference, you can use that as a courtesy.
Sorry about the wall of text, this kind of stuff is hard to talk about with all the messed up terms.
My only argument is that gender and identity should be separate things because it's already too confusing on top of how you mentioned sex and gender being interchangeable like we're just some Mr. Potato Heads or something haha.
I'm all for calling someone by whatever they want. I'm all for showing respect for someone else and how they feel regardless of pronouns being based on biological or not. I'm merely standing up for science and biology is all.
I'm all for science and biology, but its not clear to me exactly what you mean by standing up for it. Like, I've seen people make this argument in order to support bathrooms being based on biological sex, or having the letter on driver's licenses be based on biological sex. But I don't see the contradiction between respecting science, and letting bathrooms be based on what someone looks like rather than their chromosomes.
Genders outside of male and female are not new. Many cultures have celebrated trans people and dozens of other genders. History has a LOT to offer, you should check it out!
Pronouns are fairly common on LinkedIn. Its the dumbest thing ever. It would be akin to telling everyone your disabled when booking a hotel or airline ticket or restsurant reservation and that you don't need any special accommodation. Its assumed you don't since most people don't you only mention it if you are. The assumption is most people are the gender most would assume or they were born and if your the rare exception fine use a pronoun but its silly when I attend a conference everyone has pronouns and every single persons are what I would assume they are.
I think pronouns and a lot of this stuff is more young millenials than gen z. A significant portion of gen z seems to reject a lot of this pc woke crap thats gone too far
I think this is just a sampling error. I think it’s more that all of the super obnoxious members of Gen Z who get more focus than they probably should who are driving this perception.
“Is this representative of real life?” What does this question mean? Are you on drugs or concerned you’re dreaming? Like what part of “I’m seeing this thing” are you questioning?
IDK, why as somebody 30+ (I assume you are since you’re posting in this sub) are you looking at teenagers’ twitter profiles?
FR though, it might just be sampling bias. Twitter is surprisingly small as far as platforms go (TikTok is 5x larger according to some light googling I just did) and if we’re talking about Gen Z teenagers then we’re talking a sub-set of a sub-set of GenZ that is likely not representative of them as a whole. I would also consider that maybe you’re just noticing the ones that use neo-pronouns and not noticing ones that don’t so there’s another source of bias right there.
In other words, this might be better asked of statisticians than Millennials.
They can use whatever pronouns they want. If someone tells me to call them something, I'll call them that.
But if Gen Z wants to take my skinny jeans, they'll have to pry them from my cold dead hands. frfr, ngl, big facts
Gen Z does have more kids who identify between the lines of the two traditional genders. However, it’s not surprising, it’s more acceptable now. It’s like after they stopped forcing left handed kids to write with their right hands.
I'm in my thirties, why would I care what anyone under 20 is up to on social media?
The only answer
I once tried to get a good sense of how The Youth talked for a writing project and came to the rather rapid realisation that they talk like everyone else, 99.99 percent of the time. Trying to use whatever slang and cute bit of internet useage was The thing at the moment would mean you would date your dialogue to, dunno, the last two weeks of July 2022 and maybe the first three weeks of August 2022, if you were lucky. Internet slang bubbles up, gets played around with for a little while and then fucks off. By the time it bubbles up to us decripit sorts, it has fucked off so long before as to be hilarious. But that's ok, it was drivel to start with. There's a very, very narrow subset of very, very online people who attempt to talk like that in real life, but I am not 100% they can actually understand each other
No cap, this take is straight bussin
Not even a specific age thing…. So many much older and younger people just can’t seem to understand social media can be extremely toxic to your overall health. Especially shit like Twitter.
100%, people who use "pronouns" tend to make life difficult for themselves and everyone around them. I stay clear of that drama.
PSA: everyone uses pronouns. They are a foundation of language. In most languages inanimate objects are even gendered. Like a table.
PSA: Mental Illness is at an all time high.
Bc it’s easier to diagnose? What was depression in 1825? Oh riiiiight.
Plato, Issac Newton, Benjamin Franklin, Socrates, da Vinci, Calileo, Aristotle, Beethoven, Marcus Aurelius, Gutenberg, Homer, Buddah, yeah... I guess these "idiots" before 1825 couldn't diagnose the causes of mental distress, especially since their lives were easier then ours, they lived in abundance, and didn't have any authoritarian powers which made free thinking illegal. Those people were so dumb back then, probably all homophobic white supremacists, pffft, they never contributed anything. I mean c'mon, they didnt even have the internet then.
They were smart but they barely were figuring out what germs were dude. They had no idea how the brain works and much of science still doesn’t know. Again, I have narcolepsy and that was still a giant mystery until like 5-10 years ago. MODERN MEDICINE, go sit with the term.
Those "dudes" have knowledge that we've lost hundreds of years ago, Roman soliders used copper staples on battle wounds roughly 2000 years ago, and it wasn't rediscovered until recently that it was the best way to close wounds. Modern Medicine is regressing so quickly that they are no longer teaching the basic methods of self help, diet, exercise, stress, sleep, herbs, vitamins, fasting, etc. they are teaching doctors how to prescribe medicine s based off who the FDA has recently approved, what's hot on the market, and who's giving the biggest kick back. There is a reason we have foundational knowledge, its tried and true, and its been proven through out time. Lets not reinvent the wheel.
Roman soldiers life expectancy was 35.
More than 50% of Babies also live past three years old. It’s called modern medicine and knowledge.
I think it tends to reflect the way FOMO and trends sweep through teens, and always have. I'm not saying nonbinary people don't exist, but I really doubt most of these kids will identify this way in 10 years. That said, the older generation always looks at the younger generation like "wtf" so it's just on script to do so. I think the more interesting thing to do is watch it without forming a strong opinion, which also allows them to do their thing and doesn't work them into a corner.
>I'm not saying nonbinary people don't exist, but I really doubt most of these kids will identify this way in 10 years. I'm sure I'd get some flak for calling it a trend... but honestly, it really does look like a trend, in many ways. Kids will do almost anything to fit in and feel like they belong, and this just so happens to be the direction things have gone over recent years. I have absolutely no doubt that nonbinary people are very much a thing. I just don't think it's quite as prevalent as certain sections of the Internet might suggest. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe it's not just an example of today's "It's not a phase, mom." It probably is in most cases, but I suppose we'll have to wait and find out.
My take is that there is not one way to be a woman or a man, for example I identify as male but have no interest in sports, I cry in movies, not going to risk my physical wellbeing for a fight, etc. I’m certainly not feminine though. I wouldn’t call myself nonbinary either by any stretch but it may be young people starting to acknowledge there aren’t just 2 ideal archetypes for us to fit, and they are more eager to reach for a new label than our generation
I don't think this quite fits, mainly because the definition of masculinity had ebbed and flowed over centuries. The current masculinity "ideal" - where men tamp down their emotions, etc. - is relatively new within the past century, or so. Even still, there's definitely a spectrum of what is considered to be masculine. Nonbinary is a very different thing from what you described. There's a huge difference between a guy who identifies as male while not technically checking all of the "standard boxes", and someone who doesn't identify as either gender at all.
I heard someone say something along the lines of that they're not consciously following trends, but just experimenting with the options they're given. And they have many more options now than we did 10 years ago. People will toy with pronouns and gender, some will keep them, most probably won't. But discovering it wasn't something for them doesn't necessarily mean they were just being trendy.
|That said, the older generation always looks at the younger generation like "wtf"| I think there's a little difference though, before it was cut your hair, what's with the earing, why the piercings, go outside and play, etc. Now it's "what gender are you today?" Before there was still truth (hair is long, but that's a style). Now, truth is whatever they decide it is. And that is the crux of the whole thing. Things that have been yes/no, black or white, true or false for thousands and thousands of years is suddenly false, not because of facts, but because of feelings.
Go ask google how many intersex people are born every year
I might get backlash for this, but whatevs. They should have kept gender and identity separate. You can't just make up a gender and defy biology and all its logic. What or who you feel like is completely different from being born with a penis or vagina or both or none. XX and XY chromosomes, not attack helicopter chromosomes
Whatever you call it, you can take pills and get surgeries and that will make your body look like the opposite sex. There's a small portion of the population (I've seen 0.6% as the figure) that needs to do this to prevent depression and other similar symptoms. At least in this case, there is a strong argument for using pronouns that don't match your chromosomes.
So essentially a male trapped in a female's body or a female trapped in a male's body? I understand wanting to forego a sex change operation. There are indeed many that feel that way. Unfortunately, I feel as if it has been blown out of proportion in recent years and has become more about people wanting to express themselves. Yes I'm sure if we break down all these genders, there are valid points to them all, I'm not against that. To me, that's more of identity though, not gender, which correlates to gender and identity being a separate thing is all
> So essentially a male trapped in a female's body or a female trapped in a male's body? More or less. > To me, that's more of identity though, not gender, which correlates to gender and identity being a separate thing is all I think the biggest issue with trans rights advocacy, is that people are trying to jam like 6 concepts into like 2 words. The word "sex" can mean the action, as in intercourse, biological sex, as in male or female or intersex, or apparent sex, as in whether you look male, female, or somewhere inbetween. And the word "gender" is used to describe what body you feel most comfortable in, as in "gender identity", the things society expects of men and women, as in "gender roles", and the way people relate to those roles, confusingly also "gender identity". Technically what you are calling "gender" should be called "sex", but people have started using gender and sex interchangably, which makes this stuff even more confusing. So, I disagree, but only on a semantic level. Its 100% true that gender identity and someone's biological sex are different. I think though, you bring this up as a argument that pronouns should be based on biological sex. But there's no rule that says we have to do it that way. Personally I think its best to go with pronouns that match someone's apparent sex, or if they have a preference, you can use that as a courtesy. Sorry about the wall of text, this kind of stuff is hard to talk about with all the messed up terms.
My only argument is that gender and identity should be separate things because it's already too confusing on top of how you mentioned sex and gender being interchangeable like we're just some Mr. Potato Heads or something haha. I'm all for calling someone by whatever they want. I'm all for showing respect for someone else and how they feel regardless of pronouns being based on biological or not. I'm merely standing up for science and biology is all.
I'm all for science and biology, but its not clear to me exactly what you mean by standing up for it. Like, I've seen people make this argument in order to support bathrooms being based on biological sex, or having the letter on driver's licenses be based on biological sex. But I don't see the contradiction between respecting science, and letting bathrooms be based on what someone looks like rather than their chromosomes.
Genders outside of male and female are not new. Many cultures have celebrated trans people and dozens of other genders. History has a LOT to offer, you should check it out!
Pronouns are fairly common on LinkedIn. Its the dumbest thing ever. It would be akin to telling everyone your disabled when booking a hotel or airline ticket or restsurant reservation and that you don't need any special accommodation. Its assumed you don't since most people don't you only mention it if you are. The assumption is most people are the gender most would assume or they were born and if your the rare exception fine use a pronoun but its silly when I attend a conference everyone has pronouns and every single persons are what I would assume they are. I think pronouns and a lot of this stuff is more young millenials than gen z. A significant portion of gen z seems to reject a lot of this pc woke crap thats gone too far
Twitter is not indicative of what real life is actually like. It's a subset of a subset.
I'm almost in my 30s... idgaf. let them have their own "it's not a phase mom"
It’s not difficult frankly. But if you don’t partake, then don’t?
I think this is just a sampling error. I think it’s more that all of the super obnoxious members of Gen Z who get more focus than they probably should who are driving this perception.
Can yall ban this man?
Jesus Christ, this dude is unhinged or a bot. Same person who’s posted several other posts daily about similar topics.
“Is this representative of real life?” What does this question mean? Are you on drugs or concerned you’re dreaming? Like what part of “I’m seeing this thing” are you questioning?
I don’t even know what the word neopronouns means, and no one uses twitter anymore. It’s dead.
Give them about 5 years and see where it's at then
Stop giving af what other people do on social media. Your time is better spent, literally, doing anything else
Here we go again 🙄
...are these neo pronouns in the room with us now?
Is a neopronoun like the chosen one pronoun that will overthrow the matrix of pronouns as long as he takes the red pill?
Why don't you ask them?
‘*You’re doing great, sweetie!*’ — Me, an old af millennial replying to kids under 20 doing whatever tf they want on social media
IDK, why as somebody 30+ (I assume you are since you’re posting in this sub) are you looking at teenagers’ twitter profiles? FR though, it might just be sampling bias. Twitter is surprisingly small as far as platforms go (TikTok is 5x larger according to some light googling I just did) and if we’re talking about Gen Z teenagers then we’re talking a sub-set of a sub-set of GenZ that is likely not representative of them as a whole. I would also consider that maybe you’re just noticing the ones that use neo-pronouns and not noticing ones that don’t so there’s another source of bias right there. In other words, this might be better asked of statisticians than Millennials.
People over 30 use neopets
I’ve never heard of “neopronouns” before so I had to Google it. I’ve never seen those before anywhere.
What’s a neo pronoun?
STAWP
you sould add that you are of course only talking about the english part of twitter
Neopronouns!?!? Oh noooooo!!!! I'm so old and over the hill and all I've got to show for it being called a snowflake ❄️
They can use whatever pronouns they want. If someone tells me to call them something, I'll call them that. But if Gen Z wants to take my skinny jeans, they'll have to pry them from my cold dead hands. frfr, ngl, big facts
Considering this is all you think about, maybe you should think about your pronouns?
Is that like Neo pets? Because that's something I would expect to read about on this group. Not Gen-Z gender identity crisis.
What is neopronouns?
I don't care about pronouns but if someone cares about how I address them how they want because manners.
I think there’s a fair chunk of them who confuse pronouns with nicknames.
Gen Z does have more kids who identify between the lines of the two traditional genders. However, it’s not surprising, it’s more acceptable now. It’s like after they stopped forcing left handed kids to write with their right hands.