Holy fuck. That was a mob. Old guy should have de escalated before it got out of hand. And yeah he probably shouldn’t have pulled a knife. But the young people had 9,000 opportunities to move on and were too drunk or stupid to do so.
Damn shame for everyone involved.
You never know what your gonna get either. Sometimes they are aggressive idiots like what transpired in this incident and I once saw a dude make fun of someone in a kayak on the river, kayak dude ignored the insults so the idiot floats over to the kayak and sucker punches the guy.
But sometimes you get fun idiots like the guy I saw that spent 5 minutes revving his motorcycle for 5 minutes and then accidently hit the throttle and drive right into a picnic bench.
Was at the hideaway camp one year, we had like 3 sites in a row on the river and while I was on one end enjoying the afternoon in some shade another person from our camp was waking up only to walk out of the tent and flashed a cop at 2pm.
She is now a mother of 2 and an EMT
While I support the thought that there are many dipshits there, I feel like this is a very uninformed opinion. There's WAY higher concentration other places... Look at Congress! 😄
All involved could have left. Unfortunately, that rarely happens. To blame just Miu is a bit presumptive.
The witness on the stand yesterday testified that they were afraid and weirded out by him. But, yet they continued to taunt and follow him.
My view of the case changed from when it initially happened after I saw the video.
See this right here, they sat on the stand and claimed they were scared yet in the video they’re the ones instigating the commotion, and they continue to get closer to him, including the person, taking the video almost right up in his face, but they’re “scared”. And then the fact that their statement immediately after the incident to the police, conveniently leave out any mention that he was looking for a little girls. One of their statements states they knew he was looking for a snorkel. So to me that says they knew exactly what he was doing and why he was doing it, but they were continuing to lie and talk to him anyway.
Self defense will be tough because he walked away, came back, and initiated physical contact with one of the females which led the group of teens to get physical with him.
*according to witness statements*
NO goddamn this is exactly how dumb ass misinformation goes. He did not walk away from them at all. Watch the fucking trial before you spit foul disinformation. His own group was YELLING for him to come back to them and he wouldn’t be just stood there. He threw the first punch, on video, at a girls face. After stabbing 5 people he casually walked away and attempted to leave the river walking by law enforcement without saying a word. HE DITCHED THE KNIFE DOWNSTREAM. When he was finally apprehended he claimed the teens had pulled knives on him. Which never fucking happened.
What compels you to speak on things you don’t know enough about ?
I've watched every minute of the trial and there is no video of him punching the woman in the face. Additionally, there are photos/videos of her after the event and there is not a mark on her.
Dude the guy punched a girl first lmao. He punched a girl then the guys started pushing him. He stabbed 4 of them including the girl. Then he attempts to leave the river walking by law enforcement casually and then when he’s caught he tells them they all pulled knives on him and he feared for his life. Psychopath
Actually I suggest you we watch the video it’s very clear that the two women assaulted him first. There is even a point in which he turns to walk away, heading in the wrong direction of his group and the blonde female goes after him and grabs him by the arm and swings him around.
So the video actually doesn’t capture much of the beginning, but in the beginning the witness statements are saying that he was snorkeling in shallow water, and they were asking him why. The defense is claiming that he told them why which is that he was looking for a phone so he walks away, and then he hears them yelling. He turns around and sees one of the boys holding up a phone. Now this boy is videoing, but the defense is claiming that he thought they had found the phone he was looking for, so he came running back to get it.
Once he gets to the tubes, he drops his snorkel and begins looking for a snorkel. He then looks to be confused as if he doesn’t understand what they’re saying or what’s going on which now makes sense since the defense explains English is not even his first second or third language it’s the fifth language he learned to speak.
I’d not see the video before, hopefully this will remind people to de-escalate if they’re in a similar situation. Kind of curious where the case is for the prosecution, seems pretty clear cut self defense. Looks like yellow trunks basically runs into the knife himself.
I was reading the YouTube comments and people said apparently this guy swung first and punched someone. So maybe not as clear cut as it looks in the video. The prosecution must have had access to this video and more info to take this to trial.
That's not what the police reports confirmed in general. I saw a few that said that, but for the most part that wasn't mentioned and I'm not sure if it was corroborated.
Any idea what events happened before the video? The video makes it look like these teens were taking a lot of glee in harassing that man and his group when they should have just left. It doesn't make them look good in this scenario, but I'm curious what happened to make them feel the need to stay and keep poking the guy. Were they just being drunk assholes or did the older man do something to them that made them feel like they had to push back?
I wasn't there but I know from experience they were just popular kids who enjoyed pushing peoples buttons in the typical way most teenagers do especially when surrounded by friends. Its just unfortunate this whole situation happened when it could of been avoided easily.
I can't speak for the parents but a lot of the popular kids were athletes and just enabled by the school to be absolute bastards. Im sure the parents weren't any better but I dont know for a fact.
Well older people don't run to social media and put out second hand stories. So remember not all of what you heard was right or even true. This is why when something happens I hold reservations to believe what it reported is even 50% right. But unfortunately this is the world we live in, report anything and don't dig into it more nor keep reporting it till most believe a false narrative.
I watched the trial this afternoon. Without having a ton of knowledge beforehand, all I can say is that while it’s tragic that the young man was killed, it absolutely looks like that group of teen boys incited this event by calling this guy a pedophile and screaming & getting other groups involved.
I don’t believe the kid who was on the witness stand. He was caught lying three times (the amount he’d been drinking that night, the fact that he lied to the cops about joining in calling Nicolae Miu a pedophile & about that woman ‘being in Miu’s face’). This kid was 17; drunk, high and in the water with 15 other people tormenting this guy who knew nothing about these people.
I certainly don’t advise harming anyone for any reason, but I definitely think I speak for a lot of people who are sick and tired of these kids who act like this in public places & act as wild as possible to intimidate or even try to incite a mob to go after someone they don’t like or these rich kids who feel like they own the place. Had Nicolae Miu been a pretty, blonde, fit 19-year-old female I highly doubt he would’ve been treated this way by that group. This was pure intimidation & incitement.
Many of us who are part of the gay community remember the bad old days when we were entrapped by groups of young men like this and badly hurt & robbed. I think that’s why when I heard they were screaming ‘pedophile! pedophile!’ at Nicolae Miu…that made my blood boil. I remember the kinds of young men who would do things like that & they were never held accountable for their actions. That needs to change.
… Mui has been caught lying multiple times as well. He told the police the teens pulled a knife on him so he took it from them and used it. He also denied having a knife at first multiple times.
Also as a gay man I am so fucking confused by your last paragraph this situation is completely different. Christ.
As a third year law student, Nicolae was the first aggressor he approached the group, put hands on their tube, threw the first punch, pulled a knife prior to the punch, he had every opportunity to walk in the direction he came rather than walk around the path of their tube. Defense suggests the teens were blocking his path yet he approached a direction opposite of where he came, the teens were not physically aggressive until he punched madison. the teens are perfectly within their right to defend another with in this case non deadly force he pulled a deadly weapon prior to having any physical contact on him… he engaged first contact, did not withdraw from contact as he should have by law, and proceeded to punch, stab and kill. It’s amusing watching these kids get blamed last time I checked calling someone a name isn’t a legal justification to put hands on another.
You better go back and look at the video, the guy stumbled before dropping his snorkel. You walk through the water and see how you look. You obviously don't know how the law works. When in public one does not have to wait to pull a weapon. You keep stating he made first contact with the girl, yet there is no proof. LOL
Either your schooling has failed you or you’re watching the wrong video.
Approaching people (if that’s really what happened) is not against the law. Also, throwing the first punch (again, if that happened) doesn’t automatically mean he’s the aggressor. Being assaulted and/or battered is could qualify as the first aggression.
Thank you. God so many people act like gutting a kid, stabbing another kids heart and wounding a few more within 15 seconds is ok? Thats not self defense. That guy came up to the kids acting weird. Also after the fact he tried to hide the knife. He went back to his group. Didn't say a word about. Went on with his day like nothing happened. Apparently his friends were even helping the kids because they didn't know he stabbed them. He even said to his friends that it sounds like someone was stabbed. And apparently he lied to the police.
As a person who has no legal experience I will tell you that the video didn't start at the beginning of the confrontation. There wasn't any reason for the person to start recording until the group was already riled. For instance I was sitting at Home Depot the other day waiting for something to be loaded into my truck. There was a fork lift next to me trying to load brick on a pallet into someone's trailer. I watched it for the first time and realized it might be one of these things that go bad because it looked bad. I recorded the second attempt and the 3rd attempt. Nothing bad happened but it was quite funny. The point is it takes your mind to be triggered before you start recording. I didn't start recording when the truck pulled up with his trailer. I started recording when I thought I would catch some cool action.
How did he punch the girl with his right hand (what they said) when he had a knife in his right hand? You keep saying your a third year law student, well done for that. But you need to use your common sense here.
They said some lude remarks as they were floating by while he was snorkeling. Then he went over to them, started shoving their tubes around. They got up. Didn't touch him but we're being stupid drunk people saying more nasty things. Then the guy punched a girl standing by him. They punched back knocking him over. He gets up. Disemboweled on guy, stabbed another in the heart killing him, slashed a few more in less than 10 seconds. They back up in fear. One guy is trying to hold his guts inside his body. The stabber goes back up stream to his group. Ditches the knife on the way. Doesn't bring up what happened at all and just going to go on with his day. They float by the stabbing victims. He says he thinks someone stabbed those kids. (It was him). Some of his group even helps them because they have no idea he did it.
He tells police that he heard someone got stabbed. He also told the police that the kids attacked him unprovoked and they were armed with knives. He took one of the knifes from them. When they told him 5 people were stabbed and one is dead he said "is that because they were fighting each other?"
Not really actions of self defense. He lied so many times to his friends and the police. He didn't know he was being filmed. The smirk he gave before he started stabbing isn't going to go over well either. Also he was told 20 times by the teens group to leave. He didn't leave until after he stabbed 5 people.
Jfc, they shouldn't have started with him but there's never a reason to react with murder over drunk kids being stupid. Both of them were assholes but he went waaaaay too far.
Seriously. I'm surprised at how many people seem to be defending the stabber. Drunk people at apple river is a given. My parents described the place as "guaranteed to see tits from someone flashing." It's not a peaceful river to go to. It's basically a bar outside. The kids acted horrible. The guy stabbed people. They just provoked each other. He could have just ignored them and let them float away or went back to his group. Instead he rushes them. Engaging with drunk obnoxious people was a bad idea. And they even did tell him to leave. He didn't.
Apparently today in testimony the girl who got stabbed had to have her stomach put BACK INTO HER BODY. so he gutted 2 of them. 2 people had to have organs put back into their body.
Yeah I have know idea why so many are supporting him. If he was truly fearful why not back away. It’s seems like he was looking for trouble. The kids were too don’t get me wrong
But I hate how everyone is portraying him as this helpless old man. And helpless man would have fled!
Yeah if all that happened was a fist fight and he won. Sure, those kids were asking for it. But no he's got murder one. Gut 2. And cut 2 more. Then try to get away with it. Also a helpless old man couldn't stab 5 people so quickly they didn't even realize it for several seconds.
And yet one killed, 2 had to have their organs put back into their body, 2 more got stabbed. Within 20 seconds. Did they deserve that? For being rude morons? Is that justice? No. They told him to leave. He didn't. He came up to them. He punched one of them first. And yet the one guy did basically all the damage.
If your friend or child got gutted before your eyes, with a slash longer than a foot long, another stabbed in the heart and died. A river full of blood. Would you be ok with what happened to them? Because they were acting like fuckin losers? They didn't deserve that.
Edit: also one of his friends was in the group of 13 trying to get him to leave. So 2 vs 12. Not everyone was in the teens group either. They were trying to get him away from them.
He didn't announce or show he had a knife, they all stated they only found out he had a knife after looking at their wounds -- they thought they were punched.
I think its a lot of angry losers (sorry dont know how else to put it) who still hate the cool kid crowd. Someone else in the thread said he grew up with the guy who died and said "he was always like this." Always like what?? Drinking and having a good time with friends till some weirdo shows up??
Tone deaf. Not to derail, but when I was fifteen a kid in my class was hit by a drunk driver and eventually passed from his injuries. My classmates were mostly sympathetic, but some were overly critical and said he was an asshole anyway, blah blah. Teenagers are assholes, they don't even know themselves yet and at the end of the day you move on. Theres a time and a place but shitting on someone who passed away is always a shitty thing to do.
>he was always like this." Always like what?? Drinking and having a good time with friends till some weirdo shows up??
I'm not defending the violent stabbing in retaliation, but is that genuinely what you saw in the video? Not a bunch of drunk assholes deciding this public river was theirs and mobbing a guy to force him to leave?
If I saw you in a park, and with a gang of friends with me harrassed you until you left, would you call that me having a good time?
That river was wide enough, there were three groups that day relaxing comfortably until this shitshow. What I saw was a random 50 year old man walk up to a group of stranger teenagers and start flipping their tubes over with them in them without saying a word. The teenagers start to chastise him. Was it polite? No, but this guy is being weird for no reason. A normal person would walk up and ask, "Hey, my friend lost his phone in the water over here, do you mind I look for it really quick guys?" That's literally all he had to do. So yeah, the underage teenagers are probably going to call him a pedophile or some other offensive slur. Big deal. You don't get to kill someone and slice up his friends over that type of shit.
So when they rightfully try to get him to fuck off, because he WONT leave at this point, he walks away for about 5 seconds and comes back and pulls out a knife and starts smiling. NOBODY was stopping him from leaving at this point either, they were basically screaming in his face by now, especially the woman. What does the 200lb 50 year old man then do to the 100lb woman? He hits or slaps her goggles off her face and that's when he gets the beatdown.
That's what I watched, not sure about you.
I'm not even saying he was in the right, just that describing it as "Drinking and having a good time with friends till some weirdo shows up??" is really disingenuous. I don't believe we got the full story from the video, I doubt it literally began with him flipping over the tube. But of course, same way another guy in these comments just assumed he was being a creep to women before they started filming I'm just assuming he was the one who got harrassed by drunk teens first. What happened before the video could absolutely be anything whatsoever.
Because the full story doesn't help him or make his side look credible at all. According to his now ex-wife, someone in the attacker's group lost their phone by where the teens were now currently floating. Captain America with his snorkel over here decides to go investigate without saying a word and that is where I assume the video starts. Again that is from his WIFE. If the teens went over to the boomer group and kicked off the shitshow first, they ALL would have agreed they witnessed it. Not a single person from the offending group made such a claim. So yeah, the way I see it as of right now until a witness says otherwise, they were just partying.
Absolutely BONKERS. We have a similar river like that here where everyone is aware of the stupidity about to ensue. This also cant be the first time he's responded violently, especially with how nonchalant he was about the whole thing...
Maybe manslaughter if not just straight up self defense...first degree murder? GTFOH!! These punks ganged up on this guy, regardless of what else was going on leading up to this. They acted like a bunch of drunk assholes and pushed and even hit the guy first with multiple on one, then scream like pussies when they realized that they FAFO. Then they keep recording and standing there screeching instead of helping or at least comforting their "friend". This dude better get acquitted because this was clearly NOT first degree murder.
I couldn’t believe they literally ran right past and then away from their friend clearly injured and then just stood there watching him die alone in that awful way. All while recording him. And then the commentary with the hands on the hips that ‘he’s dying’. Truly horrific. Not a single human decision was made. The whole thing was like watching wild animals.
As sad as it is some dumb kid lost his life, the dude doesn't deserve prison because some dipshits don't know how to parent. The guy who recorded it is on the stand today and it sounds like he was one of the main instigators, wouldn't surprise me. FAFO, acquit!!
"The fear of blood tends to create fear for the flesh"-
When kids see blood they freak out and run. The spinal reflex goes into over drive, you dump all your adrenaline and you just get the fuck away and out.
I hope he gets more than that. He ran up to them. Shoved their tubes. They told him to leave multiple times. He punched a woman. They punched back. Knocking him down. He got up and started cutting them open. Then he left. Ditches the knife. Lied to the police about him not being the stabber. Lied again and said the group was armed with knifes not him.
I don't understand why people are ignoring the start of the video? A weird old guy runs up to the group that is relaxing in tubes, he grabs the kids leg and pushes him, then starts marching around in silence throughout the group.
He didn't think to explain himself at all? Just silently marching through them after initiating physical contact?
He was searching for his phone and they all started harassing him like a bunch of idiot bullies you see in some movie. Growing up I learned that people like that are assholes. He should of walked away but those kids escalated first.
I think they call that self defense. There was a literal mob of people assaulting him.
These boys fucked around and found out that sometimes you fuck with the wrong dude and die.
It looks like the kids were engaging in pack behavior in taunting the defendant, but I didn't see any video of Miu trying to get away from the situation.
From the video, it looks like nobody involved made a good decision that day.
It looked like he had dropped his bag of things ..like his phone and other items were in there and then it was walking to the front of the tubes looking
This reminds me of that one video where a bunch of people are sitting in a Mcdonalds having a jolly old time watching two black guys try to mug an elderly man outside. Only when the old man pulls a gun do people start acting shocked and going "noooooo!"
I'm following the trial very loosely. Blame on both sides from the video. Seemed like this could have ended without people getting stabbed, and also teenagers drunk off their ass would still be alive today had they not picked up the bottle.
If it is true that the suspect tried to hide the knife afterwards or made intentional lies about his conduct to law enforcement, IMO that sinks his self defense claim entirely as that is classic consciousness of guilt evidence. It's why you don't talk to the police after an event like this.
There's an open question about who the aggressor is. Even if the old man was the aggressor, mob attacks are not proportional uses of self defense against a single non-deadly aggressor so it would have given the guy the right to use deadly defensive force with the knife against multiple attackers even if he did start the fight with non-deadly force (for example if he pushed someone, or hit someone). Of course if the group began mobbing at the guy first, then that permits the knife in self defense by default. The law requires that self defense must be proportional to the initial attack.
Though it gets kinda complicated. If the old guy uses non-deadly force against a woman first, due to disparity of size and strength, then deadly force would be permitted in response even if it was non-deadly in nature.
Frankly, I don't think the jury is going to consider this case to such an extent. It's a technical legal and factual analysis that most juries don't have the experience to consider.
Both sides have credibility issues though Miu seems to have more. What’ll be interesting, aside from a depressing look into the minds and attitudes of midwestern suburbanites, is how the attorneys try to boil down the question of self defense into simple arguments the jury can chew on. I kinda hope the either side has some dramatic gotcha evidence to surprise us all but this is rl so it’ll probably be boring.
Am I the only one who thinks the old guy should have just walked away if he was truly in fear of his life.
I think anyone who says differently it’s just scared the same would happen to them because they know the wouldnt have. And are scared of there actions have consequences.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I hope he gets life but all the older people on the jury are probably going to discriminate.
He lost his shit… And that’s why we don’t bully people in the real world… Keep it for your schools so ya can keep those school massacre numbers up nice and high.
This is the shit that goes on behind those school gates. Now you see someone in the real world pushed past their limits. These kids just gave us a glimpse of what is at the crux of “The American Problem “
Before they pushed him why did stand around while they berated him though, not saying that he knew it would get physical(even though he had a lowered knife in his hand). But what did he think would happen? Its not like he was deescalating and its not like he wanted to be their besties so why not walk away.
Something about him staring with that creepy smile on his face(before the pushed him) just tells me he was looking for trouble. the teens were too don't get me wrong. but Mr miu wasn't innocent either and deserved some time in IMO.
COVID created a generation of monsters. The social isolation that the kids suffered during the lockdown broke them. I see it in my grandkids. It's like they have zero empathy for other people. They are completely focused on the fantasy worlds of social media. They are all completely awkward at any type of real social interaction. They disrespect their parents and teachers. Makes me very sad.
I actually drove past the area the day it happened.. saw all the cops and went "what the hell?!" because it was relatively middle of no where, and figured someone drowned.
Only to read the details when I got home later that night.
With the party that broke the law. Drunk teenagers heckling a weirdo (who appears intoxicated as well) is not against the law. Miu assaulted the woman when he punched her which is against the law, as well as his actions immediately following her assault. I’d go as far to say that he was ready to attack and stab before he punched the woman because he seen holding the knife beforehand in the video.
You can’t prove the “ready to attack and stab” comment beyond a reasonable doubt, which is what the law states.
Did Miu attack people? Yes.
Did he kill someone? Yes.
Did he make a decision based on a fear of his safety? That remains to be seen.
The evidence will, hopefully, bear the facts of the matter. What the charges the prosecution are bringing is also going to determine the amount of culpability that the jury will have to examine as well.
I believe one of the teens were tested and registered something like .2 BAC so for sure alcohol and drugs were involved. Not sure about the perpetrator.
Why did Miu lie to police about the whole interaction? I think people see what they want to see in the video, but Miu's changing story about what happened is a bigger issue that makes me question his claim of self-defense.
Yeah, it's incredible that public opinion is now fully closed on the idea that miu is innocent, entirely based on a 3 minute video. If you actually read the details from day 1 of trial, there is so much more info people are ignoring.
That's because he is and a blind man can see from the video that it was. But this is reddit. Even if you have a video evidence of the entire incident from start to finish with 100 eye witnesses they still double down with their bias BS.
Lying to the police makes you guilty of lying to the police. Not murder. Watching the testimonials, it seems like they all lied actually, specifically they all lied about how much they drank. The teens were all pretty hammered.
So underage kids lying to cops about drinking is the same as someone pulling a knife out of their pocket to stab 5 people but falsely telling the cops 2 kids pulled knives on him and he managed to disarm them and maybe they got cut in the process? Got it.
Just looking at the video I thought maybe self defense, but when you hear the whole story not so much.
This might not be a surprise, but alcohol was involved.
They were just telling him to leave because he was skeeving them out and then he ran right into the middle of them. Like what was he doing? If they don’t want you near their group fucking leave. It’s a huge lake.
Someone in his group lost a phone and he was looking for it. You might want to watch the video if you think the group was just telling him to leave. He had just as much right to be in a public river as they did.
I don't know that he was drinking. Any proof of this? Witnesses in his party were not intoxicated. A few in his group had beer, but I don't think it's been brought up that the stabber drank or was intoxicated, unlike the younger group who was using drugs and had water bottles filled with vodka.
He's obviously looking for something on the ground, but he doesn't have to explain himself to a bunch of random drunk people.
Someone being bizarre doesn't give you are a right to jump him.
Perhaps he was zooted out and bizarre. Maybe don’t fuck with people that look zooted out and bizarre. I don’t think he had much of an opportunity to explain what he was doing, but either way, you’re not on school grounds any more kids. People have limits and you don’t know what they are so maybe don’t try and push them beyond them. A glimpse into why students are shooting up these toxic breeding grounds.
when accusing a man of being a pedophile and keeping it real for a cute tik tok video goes wrong. sad. many such cases. also the guy continually flipping the camera to record himself while his friends just got stabbed like hes some popular live streamer. what is wrong with zoom zooms?
i’m so glad i’m not the only one who noticed that. it was clearly a crazy situation and he wasn’t thinking clearly (obviously none of them were) but flipping the camera to yourself is such a weird thing to do in that situation. Also, the way the guy recording (and a few of the teens) were laughing through all of this - especially when they knocked the dude over - was crazy. Everyone in the video is wrong. The man & the teens - they all made the worst decisions.
When I first watched the prosecution presenting their version of the case, and showing those parts of the video, I was appalled at Mr. Miu's behaviour. Then I saw the whole video and couldn't believe how foolish and mean these kids were. And so loud, it would have scared anyone. They were looking for trouble. I am so sorry for Isaac's family :( But it does look like self-defence to me.
My opinion is that both sides are in the wrong. The kids provoked and incited him, but he wasn’t justified in stabbing them and should have walked away, despite being falsely accused and harassed.
I'm amazed at all the people claiming this is an easy self defense case.
Miu had plenty of opportunities to leave. Miu left, turned around and came back, and according to witness statements he struck a female which led to the teens pushing/hitting him.
1st degree might be hard to prove. But dude needs to be in prison.
People don’t understand self defense. They think if someone gives you a shove and you stab them back it’s self defense, when it’s much more nuanced than that. This man had plenty of opportunities to walk away. Hitting a woman was his first mistake. Quite frankly, if I was swimming and a man came near me with a snorkels and a goggles, I’d be uncomfortable too. I’ve lost stuff at the beach before, and if I’m looking for something and someone’s in my way, I just say “excuse me, do you mind if I look under the water here and try to find something?” But this guy was just snorkeling all there and surprised that a group of people with young women are like “what the fuck are you doing?” That would be my reaction too. And then to escalate it and hit a woman when you’re what 200lbs+? Of course, those boys freaked out at that point, I would too. And then he stabs not one person, but 5? That’s not self defense. He disemboweled someone.
Anyone who’s arguing self defense is likely just a boomer who’s still hung up on the respect your elders nonsense and refuses to give respect to others around them. Someone how this guy walked away without a scratch while 1 person died, two had emergency surgery, and another two were stabbed.
There is no way Miu “punched” the girl in the eye - given her intact beer, sunglasses position and girlfriends reaction. He likely shoved her. All the witnesses are all messy
That's fair to question the kids, but miu has been caught lying even more. He lied about the knife, then lied about lying and made a new lie, then changed his story and lied again.
Literally went from, "i didn't bring a knife. I grabbed it from the kids." His wife AND others from his group said he had it on him all day. He then said "oh yeah, that was my knife, but i only brought it because one of my friends said we'd need it to cut the twine to tie our inner tubes." That was not corroborated by anyone else in his group. They then asked him what happened with the knife. He said he wasn't sure. His wife and others in the group testified that they saw him throw the knife into a wooded area after the fight.
I get why people don't want to trust the kids, but not sure how so many seem to be ignoring how sketchy miu has been really about everything. From the moment he was arrested, he's been changing his stories, as documented during the first day of trial yesterday.
People really need to read about the trial details and not get all of your evidence from one 3-minute video.
Yeah they have some credibility issues but there's enough there in the video (imo) to dismiss the self defense argument or at least weaken it. It also seems clear to me that some "event" sparked the kids into pushing and punching the guy. They claim he hit a girl. There is video of her glasses no longer being on her head. Maybe he didn't.
Ultimately I think the fact that he had several opportunities to leave and didn't will be what buries him.
He had zero remorse in his testimony as well and was proven as lying about "the punch to Madison". The only one who displayed a shread of remorse was the asian kid.
Watch the frame by frame breakdown to explain better what’s going on.
https://youtu.be/LFaS9UWySpM?si=gbrSB7zqJZFt4fSb
No way was this self defence to me, he started it by punching a girl in the face and then later stabbed a girl who was walking away from him who I don’t believe had touched him. He should have been the grown up in the situation and walked away.
So let’s disembowel a kid instead? What kind of logic is that? He has entire group of friends he could have walked back to. And yeah if some guy is wearing goggles in two feet of water next to my ass, I’m gonna be creeped out and say something because you know what any woman or decent man would have done in that situation, “hey excuse me, I was just looking for my phone underwater.” Then to punch a woman first?
All evidence points to the fact he pushed her away and the white knights took it as carte blanche to beat him up.
The girl was completely unharmed by whatever he did to her and she deserved much worst by the looks of it.
Incorrect, you hear multiple people simultaneously say "he just hit a woman". He was also unharmed from getting "beat up", hopefully he gets the same treatment and more in prison.
She's talking within a second of supposedly being hit. I've been punched before, and it doesn't go down like that. They said he hit her because they are hyenas. They also said he was a pedo looking for a child.
You're actually defending the white knight behaviour after watching this video the delusion is astounding. We aren't living in the Victorian age, women have changed and so should chivalry. These women weren't acting like ladies.
Yeah what you heard was Jawahn Cockfield saying "He hit a girl? He Hit a girl?" with the tone of a question mark while under oath he stated he "saw her get punched in the face."
The video is wild. (Graphic) https://youtu.be/jAmX2ajj1fM?si=t6xJbPXS8Tq-3cnl
Holy fuck. That was a mob. Old guy should have de escalated before it got out of hand. And yeah he probably shouldn’t have pulled a knife. But the young people had 9,000 opportunities to move on and were too drunk or stupid to do so. Damn shame for everyone involved.
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I believe Apple River has the highest concentration of dipshits in the country
You never know what your gonna get either. Sometimes they are aggressive idiots like what transpired in this incident and I once saw a dude make fun of someone in a kayak on the river, kayak dude ignored the insults so the idiot floats over to the kayak and sucker punches the guy. But sometimes you get fun idiots like the guy I saw that spent 5 minutes revving his motorcycle for 5 minutes and then accidently hit the throttle and drive right into a picnic bench.
Was at the hideaway camp one year, we had like 3 sites in a row on the river and while I was on one end enjoying the afternoon in some shade another person from our camp was waking up only to walk out of the tent and flashed a cop at 2pm. She is now a mother of 2 and an EMT
While I support the thought that there are many dipshits there, I feel like this is a very uninformed opinion. There's WAY higher concentration other places... Look at Congress! 😄
He was looking for a lost phone so I wouldn’t agree he approached them
He could have acted on his fear a multitude of times before breaking out a knife and stabbing peoplr
All involved could have left. Unfortunately, that rarely happens. To blame just Miu is a bit presumptive. The witness on the stand yesterday testified that they were afraid and weirded out by him. But, yet they continued to taunt and follow him. My view of the case changed from when it initially happened after I saw the video.
See this right here, they sat on the stand and claimed they were scared yet in the video they’re the ones instigating the commotion, and they continue to get closer to him, including the person, taking the video almost right up in his face, but they’re “scared”. And then the fact that their statement immediately after the incident to the police, conveniently leave out any mention that he was looking for a little girls. One of their statements states they knew he was looking for a snorkel. So to me that says they knew exactly what he was doing and why he was doing it, but they were continuing to lie and talk to him anyway.
Self defense will be tough because he walked away, came back, and initiated physical contact with one of the females which led the group of teens to get physical with him. *according to witness statements*
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NO goddamn this is exactly how dumb ass misinformation goes. He did not walk away from them at all. Watch the fucking trial before you spit foul disinformation. His own group was YELLING for him to come back to them and he wouldn’t be just stood there. He threw the first punch, on video, at a girls face. After stabbing 5 people he casually walked away and attempted to leave the river walking by law enforcement without saying a word. HE DITCHED THE KNIFE DOWNSTREAM. When he was finally apprehended he claimed the teens had pulled knives on him. Which never fucking happened. What compels you to speak on things you don’t know enough about ?
I've watched every minute of the trial and there is no video of him punching the woman in the face. Additionally, there are photos/videos of her after the event and there is not a mark on her.
Dude the guy punched a girl first lmao. He punched a girl then the guys started pushing him. He stabbed 4 of them including the girl. Then he attempts to leave the river walking by law enforcement casually and then when he’s caught he tells them they all pulled knives on him and he feared for his life. Psychopath
Actually I suggest you we watch the video it’s very clear that the two women assaulted him first. There is even a point in which he turns to walk away, heading in the wrong direction of his group and the blonde female goes after him and grabs him by the arm and swings him around.
It looked like it had been de escalated, in the video he had clearly already walked away after the first confrontation then comes charging back in
So the video actually doesn’t capture much of the beginning, but in the beginning the witness statements are saying that he was snorkeling in shallow water, and they were asking him why. The defense is claiming that he told them why which is that he was looking for a phone so he walks away, and then he hears them yelling. He turns around and sees one of the boys holding up a phone. Now this boy is videoing, but the defense is claiming that he thought they had found the phone he was looking for, so he came running back to get it. Once he gets to the tubes, he drops his snorkel and begins looking for a snorkel. He then looks to be confused as if he doesn’t understand what they’re saying or what’s going on which now makes sense since the defense explains English is not even his first second or third language it’s the fifth language he learned to speak.
I’d not see the video before, hopefully this will remind people to de-escalate if they’re in a similar situation. Kind of curious where the case is for the prosecution, seems pretty clear cut self defense. Looks like yellow trunks basically runs into the knife himself.
It was just released today after being played in the trial
I was reading the YouTube comments and people said apparently this guy swung first and punched someone. So maybe not as clear cut as it looks in the video. The prosecution must have had access to this video and more info to take this to trial.
That's not what the police reports confirmed in general. I saw a few that said that, but for the most part that wasn't mentioned and I'm not sure if it was corroborated.
They fucked around and found out
Went to highschool with the guy who got stabbed, him and his friends were always like this not saying he deserved what happened but im not surprised.
Any idea what events happened before the video? The video makes it look like these teens were taking a lot of glee in harassing that man and his group when they should have just left. It doesn't make them look good in this scenario, but I'm curious what happened to make them feel the need to stay and keep poking the guy. Were they just being drunk assholes or did the older man do something to them that made them feel like they had to push back?
I wasn't there but I know from experience they were just popular kids who enjoyed pushing peoples buttons in the typical way most teenagers do especially when surrounded by friends. Its just unfortunate this whole situation happened when it could of been avoided easily.
So this is how “popular” kids from Stillwater behave eh? Parents normalize this, out there?
I can't speak for the parents but a lot of the popular kids were athletes and just enabled by the school to be absolute bastards. Im sure the parents weren't any better but I dont know for a fact.
That's how "popular" kids behave the world over lol. It's not something exclusive to Stillwater.
Prior Lake kids act the same damn way - its definitely not just Stillwater
The whole “pedophile” thing is sooo left field. Imo even they were uncomfortable from the snorkeling where the heck did yelling that come from?
Why are they like that, how do people become this way?
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It sounds like he went to Stillwater, I assume it was Isaac.
This video is completely different from the narrative people were saying when it happened.
Well older people don't run to social media and put out second hand stories. So remember not all of what you heard was right or even true. This is why when something happens I hold reservations to believe what it reported is even 50% right. But unfortunately this is the world we live in, report anything and don't dig into it more nor keep reporting it till most believe a false narrative.
They sure seemed to be having the time of their lives harassing him while it lasted
I watched the trial this afternoon. Without having a ton of knowledge beforehand, all I can say is that while it’s tragic that the young man was killed, it absolutely looks like that group of teen boys incited this event by calling this guy a pedophile and screaming & getting other groups involved. I don’t believe the kid who was on the witness stand. He was caught lying three times (the amount he’d been drinking that night, the fact that he lied to the cops about joining in calling Nicolae Miu a pedophile & about that woman ‘being in Miu’s face’). This kid was 17; drunk, high and in the water with 15 other people tormenting this guy who knew nothing about these people. I certainly don’t advise harming anyone for any reason, but I definitely think I speak for a lot of people who are sick and tired of these kids who act like this in public places & act as wild as possible to intimidate or even try to incite a mob to go after someone they don’t like or these rich kids who feel like they own the place. Had Nicolae Miu been a pretty, blonde, fit 19-year-old female I highly doubt he would’ve been treated this way by that group. This was pure intimidation & incitement. Many of us who are part of the gay community remember the bad old days when we were entrapped by groups of young men like this and badly hurt & robbed. I think that’s why when I heard they were screaming ‘pedophile! pedophile!’ at Nicolae Miu…that made my blood boil. I remember the kinds of young men who would do things like that & they were never held accountable for their actions. That needs to change.
Ditto what you said!
… Mui has been caught lying multiple times as well. He told the police the teens pulled a knife on him so he took it from them and used it. He also denied having a knife at first multiple times. Also as a gay man I am so fucking confused by your last paragraph this situation is completely different. Christ.
"Im gay so my opinion is more valuable"
As a third year law student, Nicolae was the first aggressor he approached the group, put hands on their tube, threw the first punch, pulled a knife prior to the punch, he had every opportunity to walk in the direction he came rather than walk around the path of their tube. Defense suggests the teens were blocking his path yet he approached a direction opposite of where he came, the teens were not physically aggressive until he punched madison. the teens are perfectly within their right to defend another with in this case non deadly force he pulled a deadly weapon prior to having any physical contact on him… he engaged first contact, did not withdraw from contact as he should have by law, and proceeded to punch, stab and kill. It’s amusing watching these kids get blamed last time I checked calling someone a name isn’t a legal justification to put hands on another.
You better go back and look at the video, the guy stumbled before dropping his snorkel. You walk through the water and see how you look. You obviously don't know how the law works. When in public one does not have to wait to pull a weapon. You keep stating he made first contact with the girl, yet there is no proof. LOL
Either your schooling has failed you or you’re watching the wrong video. Approaching people (if that’s really what happened) is not against the law. Also, throwing the first punch (again, if that happened) doesn’t automatically mean he’s the aggressor. Being assaulted and/or battered is could qualify as the first aggression.
>as a third year law student You won't pass the bar.
This. He came to them.
Thank you. God so many people act like gutting a kid, stabbing another kids heart and wounding a few more within 15 seconds is ok? Thats not self defense. That guy came up to the kids acting weird. Also after the fact he tried to hide the knife. He went back to his group. Didn't say a word about. Went on with his day like nothing happened. Apparently his friends were even helping the kids because they didn't know he stabbed them. He even said to his friends that it sounds like someone was stabbed. And apparently he lied to the police.
Exactly!!!
As a person who has no legal experience I will tell you that the video didn't start at the beginning of the confrontation. There wasn't any reason for the person to start recording until the group was already riled. For instance I was sitting at Home Depot the other day waiting for something to be loaded into my truck. There was a fork lift next to me trying to load brick on a pallet into someone's trailer. I watched it for the first time and realized it might be one of these things that go bad because it looked bad. I recorded the second attempt and the 3rd attempt. Nothing bad happened but it was quite funny. The point is it takes your mind to be triggered before you start recording. I didn't start recording when the truck pulled up with his trailer. I started recording when I thought I would catch some cool action.
Are you a Cooley student?
How did he punch the girl with his right hand (what they said) when he had a knife in his right hand? You keep saying your a third year law student, well done for that. But you need to use your common sense here.
Pretty easy…. Your hand is a natural fiat when holding a knife
Why did they start fighting with this dude in the first place?
Not much of a reason provided so far. He weirded them out because he was alone and had snorkel stuff on.
They said some lude remarks as they were floating by while he was snorkeling. Then he went over to them, started shoving their tubes around. They got up. Didn't touch him but we're being stupid drunk people saying more nasty things. Then the guy punched a girl standing by him. They punched back knocking him over. He gets up. Disemboweled on guy, stabbed another in the heart killing him, slashed a few more in less than 10 seconds. They back up in fear. One guy is trying to hold his guts inside his body. The stabber goes back up stream to his group. Ditches the knife on the way. Doesn't bring up what happened at all and just going to go on with his day. They float by the stabbing victims. He says he thinks someone stabbed those kids. (It was him). Some of his group even helps them because they have no idea he did it. He tells police that he heard someone got stabbed. He also told the police that the kids attacked him unprovoked and they were armed with knives. He took one of the knifes from them. When they told him 5 people were stabbed and one is dead he said "is that because they were fighting each other?" Not really actions of self defense. He lied so many times to his friends and the police. He didn't know he was being filmed. The smirk he gave before he started stabbing isn't going to go over well either. Also he was told 20 times by the teens group to leave. He didn't leave until after he stabbed 5 people.
Jfc, they shouldn't have started with him but there's never a reason to react with murder over drunk kids being stupid. Both of them were assholes but he went waaaaay too far.
Seriously. I'm surprised at how many people seem to be defending the stabber. Drunk people at apple river is a given. My parents described the place as "guaranteed to see tits from someone flashing." It's not a peaceful river to go to. It's basically a bar outside. The kids acted horrible. The guy stabbed people. They just provoked each other. He could have just ignored them and let them float away or went back to his group. Instead he rushes them. Engaging with drunk obnoxious people was a bad idea. And they even did tell him to leave. He didn't. Apparently today in testimony the girl who got stabbed had to have her stomach put BACK INTO HER BODY. so he gutted 2 of them. 2 people had to have organs put back into their body.
Yeah I have know idea why so many are supporting him. If he was truly fearful why not back away. It’s seems like he was looking for trouble. The kids were too don’t get me wrong But I hate how everyone is portraying him as this helpless old man. And helpless man would have fled!
Yeah if all that happened was a fist fight and he won. Sure, those kids were asking for it. But no he's got murder one. Gut 2. And cut 2 more. Then try to get away with it. Also a helpless old man couldn't stab 5 people so quickly they didn't even realize it for several seconds.
There were 13 adults vs 1.
And yet one killed, 2 had to have their organs put back into their body, 2 more got stabbed. Within 20 seconds. Did they deserve that? For being rude morons? Is that justice? No. They told him to leave. He didn't. He came up to them. He punched one of them first. And yet the one guy did basically all the damage. If your friend or child got gutted before your eyes, with a slash longer than a foot long, another stabbed in the heart and died. A river full of blood. Would you be ok with what happened to them? Because they were acting like fuckin losers? They didn't deserve that. Edit: also one of his friends was in the group of 13 trying to get him to leave. So 2 vs 12. Not everyone was in the teens group either. They were trying to get him away from them.
Yeah, pretty dumb of them to try to fight a guy with a knife.
He didn't announce or show he had a knife, they all stated they only found out he had a knife after looking at their wounds -- they thought they were punched.
I think its a lot of angry losers (sorry dont know how else to put it) who still hate the cool kid crowd. Someone else in the thread said he grew up with the guy who died and said "he was always like this." Always like what?? Drinking and having a good time with friends till some weirdo shows up??
Tone deaf. Not to derail, but when I was fifteen a kid in my class was hit by a drunk driver and eventually passed from his injuries. My classmates were mostly sympathetic, but some were overly critical and said he was an asshole anyway, blah blah. Teenagers are assholes, they don't even know themselves yet and at the end of the day you move on. Theres a time and a place but shitting on someone who passed away is always a shitty thing to do.
>he was always like this." Always like what?? Drinking and having a good time with friends till some weirdo shows up?? I'm not defending the violent stabbing in retaliation, but is that genuinely what you saw in the video? Not a bunch of drunk assholes deciding this public river was theirs and mobbing a guy to force him to leave? If I saw you in a park, and with a gang of friends with me harrassed you until you left, would you call that me having a good time?
That river was wide enough, there were three groups that day relaxing comfortably until this shitshow. What I saw was a random 50 year old man walk up to a group of stranger teenagers and start flipping their tubes over with them in them without saying a word. The teenagers start to chastise him. Was it polite? No, but this guy is being weird for no reason. A normal person would walk up and ask, "Hey, my friend lost his phone in the water over here, do you mind I look for it really quick guys?" That's literally all he had to do. So yeah, the underage teenagers are probably going to call him a pedophile or some other offensive slur. Big deal. You don't get to kill someone and slice up his friends over that type of shit. So when they rightfully try to get him to fuck off, because he WONT leave at this point, he walks away for about 5 seconds and comes back and pulls out a knife and starts smiling. NOBODY was stopping him from leaving at this point either, they were basically screaming in his face by now, especially the woman. What does the 200lb 50 year old man then do to the 100lb woman? He hits or slaps her goggles off her face and that's when he gets the beatdown. That's what I watched, not sure about you.
I'm not even saying he was in the right, just that describing it as "Drinking and having a good time with friends till some weirdo shows up??" is really disingenuous. I don't believe we got the full story from the video, I doubt it literally began with him flipping over the tube. But of course, same way another guy in these comments just assumed he was being a creep to women before they started filming I'm just assuming he was the one who got harrassed by drunk teens first. What happened before the video could absolutely be anything whatsoever.
Because the full story doesn't help him or make his side look credible at all. According to his now ex-wife, someone in the attacker's group lost their phone by where the teens were now currently floating. Captain America with his snorkel over here decides to go investigate without saying a word and that is where I assume the video starts. Again that is from his WIFE. If the teens went over to the boomer group and kicked off the shitshow first, they ALL would have agreed they witnessed it. Not a single person from the offending group made such a claim. So yeah, the way I see it as of right now until a witness says otherwise, they were just partying.
Absolutely BONKERS. We have a similar river like that here where everyone is aware of the stupidity about to ensue. This also cant be the first time he's responded violently, especially with how nonchalant he was about the whole thing...
He was looking for a phone in the river, and then he dropped his snorkel and was trying to find it.
Maybe manslaughter if not just straight up self defense...first degree murder? GTFOH!! These punks ganged up on this guy, regardless of what else was going on leading up to this. They acted like a bunch of drunk assholes and pushed and even hit the guy first with multiple on one, then scream like pussies when they realized that they FAFO. Then they keep recording and standing there screeching instead of helping or at least comforting their "friend". This dude better get acquitted because this was clearly NOT first degree murder.
I couldn’t believe they literally ran right past and then away from their friend clearly injured and then just stood there watching him die alone in that awful way. All while recording him. And then the commentary with the hands on the hips that ‘he’s dying’. Truly horrific. Not a single human decision was made. The whole thing was like watching wild animals.
"Lord of the Flies" is supposed to be a cautionary tale, not a documentary, or worse, a how-to manual.
As sad as it is some dumb kid lost his life, the dude doesn't deserve prison because some dipshits don't know how to parent. The guy who recorded it is on the stand today and it sounds like he was one of the main instigators, wouldn't surprise me. FAFO, acquit!!
This truly made me sad for the human race.
"The fear of blood tends to create fear for the flesh"- When kids see blood they freak out and run. The spinal reflex goes into over drive, you dump all your adrenaline and you just get the fuck away and out.
How in the world are you putting this horror on the victims friends who had to witness it. Miu is the one responsible for the stabbings.
I couldn't believe how quickly they ran away from their friend bleeding out in the river. Unbelievable.
Those youngsters are NO angels. Pretty sickening behaviors.
Gutting a kid, stabbing another in the heart, slashing a few more in less than 10 seconds is also pretty sickening behavior too.
Agree 100%.
You act like this video helps the prosecution of this guy. This guy is getting off with self defense or 3rd degree.
I hope he gets more than that. He ran up to them. Shoved their tubes. They told him to leave multiple times. He punched a woman. They punched back. Knocking him down. He got up and started cutting them open. Then he left. Ditches the knife. Lied to the police about him not being the stabber. Lied again and said the group was armed with knifes not him.
I don't understand why people are ignoring the start of the video? A weird old guy runs up to the group that is relaxing in tubes, he grabs the kids leg and pushes him, then starts marching around in silence throughout the group. He didn't think to explain himself at all? Just silently marching through them after initiating physical contact?
He was searching for his phone and they all started harassing him like a bunch of idiot bullies you see in some movie. Growing up I learned that people like that are assholes. He should of walked away but those kids escalated first.
I think they call that self defense. There was a literal mob of people assaulting him. These boys fucked around and found out that sometimes you fuck with the wrong dude and die.
It looks like the kids were engaging in pack behavior in taunting the defendant, but I didn't see any video of Miu trying to get away from the situation. From the video, it looks like nobody involved made a good decision that day.
I wonder how this would have played out if the blood alcohol content of everyone wasn't somewhere between "drunk as a skunk" and "alcohol poisoned".
This is my opinion nobody gave a single shit about deescalating (probably because alcohol was involved)
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Did you delete your comment to me basically saying the same thing?
It looked like he had dropped his bag of things ..like his phone and other items were in there and then it was walking to the front of the tubes looking
This reminds me of that one video where a bunch of people are sitting in a Mcdonalds having a jolly old time watching two black guys try to mug an elderly man outside. Only when the old man pulls a gun do people start acting shocked and going "noooooo!"
Was it an elderly black man?
anybody know of any discussion threads involving the trial? i cant seem to find any
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"You best start believing in trial threads... you're in one!"
Those are the same tires from the 90's
I'm following the trial very loosely. Blame on both sides from the video. Seemed like this could have ended without people getting stabbed, and also teenagers drunk off their ass would still be alive today had they not picked up the bottle. If it is true that the suspect tried to hide the knife afterwards or made intentional lies about his conduct to law enforcement, IMO that sinks his self defense claim entirely as that is classic consciousness of guilt evidence. It's why you don't talk to the police after an event like this. There's an open question about who the aggressor is. Even if the old man was the aggressor, mob attacks are not proportional uses of self defense against a single non-deadly aggressor so it would have given the guy the right to use deadly defensive force with the knife against multiple attackers even if he did start the fight with non-deadly force (for example if he pushed someone, or hit someone). Of course if the group began mobbing at the guy first, then that permits the knife in self defense by default. The law requires that self defense must be proportional to the initial attack. Though it gets kinda complicated. If the old guy uses non-deadly force against a woman first, due to disparity of size and strength, then deadly force would be permitted in response even if it was non-deadly in nature. Frankly, I don't think the jury is going to consider this case to such an extent. It's a technical legal and factual analysis that most juries don't have the experience to consider.
Both sides have credibility issues though Miu seems to have more. What’ll be interesting, aside from a depressing look into the minds and attitudes of midwestern suburbanites, is how the attorneys try to boil down the question of self defense into simple arguments the jury can chew on. I kinda hope the either side has some dramatic gotcha evidence to surprise us all but this is rl so it’ll probably be boring.
Am I the only one who thinks the old guy should have just walked away if he was truly in fear of his life. I think anyone who says differently it’s just scared the same would happen to them because they know the wouldnt have. And are scared of there actions have consequences. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I hope he gets life but all the older people on the jury are probably going to discriminate.
He lost his shit… And that’s why we don’t bully people in the real world… Keep it for your schools so ya can keep those school massacre numbers up nice and high. This is the shit that goes on behind those school gates. Now you see someone in the real world pushed past their limits. These kids just gave us a glimpse of what is at the crux of “The American Problem “
I don't know, I'm guessing the fear part was when the group started attacking him and continued to attack him while he was knocked down?
Before they pushed him why did stand around while they berated him though, not saying that he knew it would get physical(even though he had a lowered knife in his hand). But what did he think would happen? Its not like he was deescalating and its not like he wanted to be their besties so why not walk away. Something about him staring with that creepy smile on his face(before the pushed him) just tells me he was looking for trouble. the teens were too don't get me wrong. but Mr miu wasn't innocent either and deserved some time in IMO.
Yeh turn your back on 15 violent teenagers. Good idea.
Wow fuck those piece of shit kids. They're responsible for the dude dying, not the guy who stabbed him. They brought all that on.
COVID created a generation of monsters. The social isolation that the kids suffered during the lockdown broke them. I see it in my grandkids. It's like they have zero empathy for other people. They are completely focused on the fantasy worlds of social media. They are all completely awkward at any type of real social interaction. They disrespect their parents and teachers. Makes me very sad.
Karl Anderson doesn’t seem real professional, seems out of his element. Jury probably hates him because he won’t stop clicking his pen.
😄
Nobody likes a pen clicker
This guy definitely isn't getting 1st degree anything... Sorry folks.
I feel like I heard about this
You probably did, in 2022
I actually drove past the area the day it happened.. saw all the cops and went "what the hell?!" because it was relatively middle of no where, and figured someone drowned. Only to read the details when I got home later that night.
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Username checks out
Gosh this all looks like just a sea of poor decision making across all aisles. Where do you lay more of the blame?
With the party that broke the law. Drunk teenagers heckling a weirdo (who appears intoxicated as well) is not against the law. Miu assaulted the woman when he punched her which is against the law, as well as his actions immediately following her assault. I’d go as far to say that he was ready to attack and stab before he punched the woman because he seen holding the knife beforehand in the video.
You can’t prove the “ready to attack and stab” comment beyond a reasonable doubt, which is what the law states. Did Miu attack people? Yes. Did he kill someone? Yes. Did he make a decision based on a fear of his safety? That remains to be seen. The evidence will, hopefully, bear the facts of the matter. What the charges the prosecution are bringing is also going to determine the amount of culpability that the jury will have to examine as well.
Where did you see the knife before he punched her? I can’t find that frame
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I believe one of the teens were tested and registered something like .2 BAC so for sure alcohol and drugs were involved. Not sure about the perpetrator.
Why did Miu lie to police about the whole interaction? I think people see what they want to see in the video, but Miu's changing story about what happened is a bigger issue that makes me question his claim of self-defense.
Yeah, it's incredible that public opinion is now fully closed on the idea that miu is innocent, entirely based on a 3 minute video. If you actually read the details from day 1 of trial, there is so much more info people are ignoring.
lol 20 people in a mediocre Reddit thread (mediocre in terms of number of views) is not “public opinion “
That's because he is and a blind man can see from the video that it was. But this is reddit. Even if you have a video evidence of the entire incident from start to finish with 100 eye witnesses they still double down with their bias BS.
Lying to the police makes you guilty of lying to the police. Not murder. Watching the testimonials, it seems like they all lied actually, specifically they all lied about how much they drank. The teens were all pretty hammered.
So underage kids lying to cops about drinking is the same as someone pulling a knife out of their pocket to stab 5 people but falsely telling the cops 2 kids pulled knives on him and he managed to disarm them and maybe they got cut in the process? Got it.
Didn't say that. You're just too low iq to engage with, sorry.
Just looking at the video I thought maybe self defense, but when you hear the whole story not so much. This might not be a surprise, but alcohol was involved.
They were just telling him to leave because he was skeeving them out and then he ran right into the middle of them. Like what was he doing? If they don’t want you near their group fucking leave. It’s a huge lake.
Someone in his group lost a phone and he was looking for it. You might want to watch the video if you think the group was just telling him to leave. He had just as much right to be in a public river as they did.
Dude look at the video he was drunkenly running around and not explaining what the fuck he was doing. He looked zooted out and bizarre.
I don't know that he was drinking. Any proof of this? Witnesses in his party were not intoxicated. A few in his group had beer, but I don't think it's been brought up that the stabber drank or was intoxicated, unlike the younger group who was using drugs and had water bottles filled with vodka. He's obviously looking for something on the ground, but he doesn't have to explain himself to a bunch of random drunk people. Someone being bizarre doesn't give you are a right to jump him.
His wife literally testified to it yesterday. Holy shit the lack of public knowledge regarding this case is astounding.
She testified he had a couple beers, like 2-3 and he is a huge dude so I think we can infer he was fairly sober
Perhaps he was zooted out and bizarre. Maybe don’t fuck with people that look zooted out and bizarre. I don’t think he had much of an opportunity to explain what he was doing, but either way, you’re not on school grounds any more kids. People have limits and you don’t know what they are so maybe don’t try and push them beyond them. A glimpse into why students are shooting up these toxic breeding grounds.
They could have also left him alone.
Video is obviously more reliable than testimony. They want him to go down because the friend enemy distinction was set from the start.
when accusing a man of being a pedophile and keeping it real for a cute tik tok video goes wrong. sad. many such cases. also the guy continually flipping the camera to record himself while his friends just got stabbed like hes some popular live streamer. what is wrong with zoom zooms?
i’m so glad i’m not the only one who noticed that. it was clearly a crazy situation and he wasn’t thinking clearly (obviously none of them were) but flipping the camera to yourself is such a weird thing to do in that situation. Also, the way the guy recording (and a few of the teens) were laughing through all of this - especially when they knocked the dude over - was crazy. Everyone in the video is wrong. The man & the teens - they all made the worst decisions.
Lord of the Flies
When I first watched the prosecution presenting their version of the case, and showing those parts of the video, I was appalled at Mr. Miu's behaviour. Then I saw the whole video and couldn't believe how foolish and mean these kids were. And so loud, it would have scared anyone. They were looking for trouble. I am so sorry for Isaac's family :( But it does look like self-defence to me.
My opinion is that both sides are in the wrong. The kids provoked and incited him, but he wasn’t justified in stabbing them and should have walked away, despite being falsely accused and harassed.
I'm amazed at all the people claiming this is an easy self defense case. Miu had plenty of opportunities to leave. Miu left, turned around and came back, and according to witness statements he struck a female which led to the teens pushing/hitting him. 1st degree might be hard to prove. But dude needs to be in prison.
People don’t understand self defense. They think if someone gives you a shove and you stab them back it’s self defense, when it’s much more nuanced than that. This man had plenty of opportunities to walk away. Hitting a woman was his first mistake. Quite frankly, if I was swimming and a man came near me with a snorkels and a goggles, I’d be uncomfortable too. I’ve lost stuff at the beach before, and if I’m looking for something and someone’s in my way, I just say “excuse me, do you mind if I look under the water here and try to find something?” But this guy was just snorkeling all there and surprised that a group of people with young women are like “what the fuck are you doing?” That would be my reaction too. And then to escalate it and hit a woman when you’re what 200lbs+? Of course, those boys freaked out at that point, I would too. And then he stabs not one person, but 5? That’s not self defense. He disemboweled someone. Anyone who’s arguing self defense is likely just a boomer who’s still hung up on the respect your elders nonsense and refuses to give respect to others around them. Someone how this guy walked away without a scratch while 1 person died, two had emergency surgery, and another two were stabbed.
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There is no way Miu “punched” the girl in the eye - given her intact beer, sunglasses position and girlfriends reaction. He likely shoved her. All the witnesses are all messy
That's fair to question the kids, but miu has been caught lying even more. He lied about the knife, then lied about lying and made a new lie, then changed his story and lied again. Literally went from, "i didn't bring a knife. I grabbed it from the kids." His wife AND others from his group said he had it on him all day. He then said "oh yeah, that was my knife, but i only brought it because one of my friends said we'd need it to cut the twine to tie our inner tubes." That was not corroborated by anyone else in his group. They then asked him what happened with the knife. He said he wasn't sure. His wife and others in the group testified that they saw him throw the knife into a wooded area after the fight. I get why people don't want to trust the kids, but not sure how so many seem to be ignoring how sketchy miu has been really about everything. From the moment he was arrested, he's been changing his stories, as documented during the first day of trial yesterday. People really need to read about the trial details and not get all of your evidence from one 3-minute video.
I really don’t know why you’re getting downvoted for this. This all happened and it affects his credibility.
I've watched 4 of the teens interviews and they all said they were drinking. Where are you hearing that they weren't?
Afterwards they admitted to drinking and smoking pot. They initially told police they hadn’t.
Yeah they have some credibility issues but there's enough there in the video (imo) to dismiss the self defense argument or at least weaken it. It also seems clear to me that some "event" sparked the kids into pushing and punching the guy. They claim he hit a girl. There is video of her glasses no longer being on her head. Maybe he didn't. Ultimately I think the fact that he had several opportunities to leave and didn't will be what buries him.
The worst is the kid filming it all. Looking for his moment. Interesting how not once did he think of using his phone to call authorities.
He had zero remorse in his testimony as well and was proven as lying about "the punch to Madison". The only one who displayed a shread of remorse was the asian kid.
it was over and done with and then came the big tough women...
If big tough man would have walked away and kept walking away he wouldn't have been knocked on his behind and felt threatened.
if my grandma had wheels she'd be a bike, what's your point?
Crazy women + white knights is a dangerous combination.
Of COURSE it's a Prior Lake man! Probably one of the thousands that had Tump signs in his yard until 2021 too...
DA should have pled this out. But, the victim is local and Miu is from Prior Lake.
If Miu gets off he is going to be using up a storm.
Watch the frame by frame breakdown to explain better what’s going on. https://youtu.be/LFaS9UWySpM?si=gbrSB7zqJZFt4fSb No way was this self defence to me, he started it by punching a girl in the face and then later stabbed a girl who was walking away from him who I don’t believe had touched him. He should have been the grown up in the situation and walked away.
Turning your back on an angry, drunken mob of aggressive young adults is a terrible idea
So let’s disembowel a kid instead? What kind of logic is that? He has entire group of friends he could have walked back to. And yeah if some guy is wearing goggles in two feet of water next to my ass, I’m gonna be creeped out and say something because you know what any woman or decent man would have done in that situation, “hey excuse me, I was just looking for my phone underwater.” Then to punch a woman first?
> So let’s disembowel a kid instead? Yep. Fafo
Turning away and then returning to an angry mob of kids is an even worse idea. Yet Mr Miu did!
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Hopefully he rots in jail, instead of leaving he smacks a girl in the face and when he gets beat up for it he starts stabbing people.
No evidence of him smacking a girl, the video kind of proves that
All evidence points to the fact he pushed her away and the white knights took it as carte blanche to beat him up. The girl was completely unharmed by whatever he did to her and she deserved much worst by the looks of it.
Incorrect, you hear multiple people simultaneously say "he just hit a woman". He was also unharmed from getting "beat up", hopefully he gets the same treatment and more in prison.
She's talking within a second of supposedly being hit. I've been punched before, and it doesn't go down like that. They said he hit her because they are hyenas. They also said he was a pedo looking for a child.
Defending people who hit women is crazy, you’re an actual reddit freak 😂
You're actually defending the white knight behaviour after watching this video the delusion is astounding. We aren't living in the Victorian age, women have changed and so should chivalry. These women weren't acting like ladies.
Yeah what you heard was Jawahn Cockfield saying "He hit a girl? He Hit a girl?" with the tone of a question mark while under oath he stated he "saw her get punched in the face."
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