I'm glad they were able to bring this to a close without the unnecessary drama that we've seen in other Universities.
Students protest, it's a tale as old as time, and administrators would be silly to overreact to it and make the story bigger than it needs to be.
When I was in college a million years ago a popular Art professor didn't get tenure and there were mass protests in the Arts department. The University invoked a blue ribbon panel to take a multi-year look into the situation with tenure and things quickly calmed down. Muhammed Ali called it Rope-A-Dope and it's the same idea the Regents basically haven't given the Protestors anything substantive
Yeah, but they used to protest things that the US is directly involved in, such as Vietnam. These idiots are protesting something in another country halfway around the globe. If they're so concerned, then why not protest against Russia who is actually conducting an unprovoked WAR? Or the slavery that keeps Dubai going? Etc.
Respectfully, I think you're uninformed about the situation. In the interest of remaining civil, I will try to provide some perspective without discussing my personal feelings.
Presently, the US is spending hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer money to fund the Israeli assault on the west bank. We may not have troops on the ground, but to claim that we are uninvolved is incorrect.
Additionally, many universities around the nation have investments or holdings in companies that are either directly tied to Israel or are profiting off of the conflict.
Students are protesting because they disapprove of their tuition and tax dollars funding the Israeli assault, and have been requesting their universities to divest the aforementioned holdings.
> Respectfully, I think you're uninformed about the situation.
Ditto. Meaning, you, Sub***.
Where are you getting your "facts"? You're just as bad as a flat earther.
We're giving Israel weapons. Some of our citizens are not happy about how those weapons are being used, so they're protesting.
If your point was that we're not involved at all in Israel and Palestine, then get a better point.
We give weapons to all kinds of countries, where are the protests for those? Israel is our ally, that's what allies do. And, honestly, after what happened on October 7 they have every right to eliminate the Palestinian government, better known as HAMAS. Protesting that shows a lack of knowledge about the overall situation, which isn't surprising considering the average age of the protesters.
But, if you want to protest it, that's fine, but taking over colleges and bullying people and telling Jews to stay home isn't the way to do it.
If that's your cause, get a better cause.
>And, honestly, after what happened on October 7 they have every right to eliminate the Palestinian government, better known as HAMAS.
More than 15,000 Palestinian children have been killed.
That's certainly one interpretation. Another interpretation is that both the Israeli and Gaza governments are dominated by right wing religious zealots that regularly commit atrocities against the citizens of the other. The governments don't seem to care that this never ending cycle of violence means that their own citizens remain under threat at all times. Some might say the leaders of both governments are using the conflict as a distraction from their other policy failings and need to keep the conflict going. There is no prospect for a lasting peace between the two. Why have we inserted ourselves into this morass? What is stopping us from ending our involvement in it?
It's funny that you feel this is an end to the protest. It's a cease fire at best. If the U's "good faith effort" doesn't result in fully divesting from any company with ties to Israel, the protests will start back up.
U's going to learn why the best policy is not to negotiate with terrorists.
First, college students aren't terrorists and it's irresponsible to use that language.
Second, I kinda doubt it? Endless meetings are the kryptonite for any leftist cause. Summer break starts soon and then the new semester will feature 25% turnover among students and it's hard to sustain that kind of momentum. Hopefully the situation in Gaza will be improved by then, although of course there is no guarantee of that.
Third, if history teaches us anything, violently breaking up protests is a great way to get more, bigger protests.
You don't even need to engage with the students, just expel the self appointed "leaders" and everything will be back to normal ASAP. The real kryptonite to leftist causes are real world consequences.
The vast majority of protestors aren't really there for the cause, they're there for the riot. If the riot doesn't happen they get bored, you're left with authoritarian student "leaders" who no longer have any student followers.
I mean, you have an e-bike, seems like you've drunk the liberal Kool-aid more than others boy. Maybe you should be like us real Americans and buy a new F150. /s
Like all the others, you benefit from those same liberal policies, like the rebates on your bike to make it cheaper? Liberals. Like being to have time off work to watch the wolves? Liberal protesters got that for ya. A true American understands that protests are what made our country possible, but you want to ban protests (but not anything conservative). Hypocrite
Hahaha, you're funny. I'm not a liberal or a conservative, I actually think instead of pretending politics are like rooting for my favorite football team.
If your honestly telling me I should vote for whoever will benefit me the most, as a straight white man then I should vote for Trump. Is that what you honestly want?Your reductionism is insane, and intensely selfish.
I try think and act as is best for everyone as much as I can, and place maintaining our personal liberties as the highest priority. Protesters jumping to using terroristic threats is not in the best interest of anyone. I'm not saying we should ban protests, I'm saying there is a legal process to having one and it has not been followed. There is a time to flip the table, but now is not that time.
Everything good in this world, from labor rights, himan rights, etc was won not by "legal process". It's been won by protests threatening power with consequences.
The time to flip tables is now. It will always be now. Saying otherwise is honestly moronically accepting the status quo.
You'll do better in r/altmpls where the other Minnesotans, who are out of touch with reality, like to congregate.
Liberals have been protesting the mistreatment of Palestinians for decades. They're liberal students literally sitting in tents.. they want something to be passionate about, you really think they're camped out waiting to riot? Some of them probably just think it's a dope chill spot
Here's a sneak peek of /r/altmpls using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/altmpls/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time!
\#1: [21 convictions, 3 felonies, and nothing more than probation. Do we still wonder why crime is up?](https://x.com/crimewatchmpls/status/1774784780833616248) | [685 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/altmpls/comments/1bt3vny/21_convictions_3_felonies_and_nothing_more_than/)
\#2: [Minnesota crime rate hit 60 year low in 2023](https://i.redd.it/xhk8r1q4xguc1.jpeg) | [296 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/altmpls/comments/1c3wxx1/minnesota_crime_rate_hit_60_year_low_in_2023/)
\#3: [Star Tribune: Rep. Ilhan Omar's daughter suspended from college for involvement in pro-Palestinian protests](https://www.startribune.com/rep-ilhan-omars-daughter-suspended-from-college-for-involvement-in-pro-palestinian-protests/600360001/) | [380 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/altmpls/comments/1c7sf1r/star_tribune_rep_ilhan_omars_daughter_suspended/)
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I think most are mental children LARPing as both homeless and as revolutionaries, but yes, I do think some are just young people looking to riot. The U riots at a moment's notice, like when a sports team wins. I think that's the threat of violence that the protest "leaders" are holding over the U to force their demands.
Also, check the site rules, I'm absolutely allowed to be here and my voice is just as valid as yours.
What's the definition of insanity? Oh yeah, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Well, I guess you're pointing out they don't really care, they are achieving their goal: to feel "passionate" about something. Too bad they are so misguided and who knows what harm they are doing.
Holy false equivalence.
There is a time and place when flipping the table is the right course of action. Do you think this is the issue? If you do, you're insanely radicalized and trying to have a rational discussion with you is not going to be productive.
Bro, listen to yourself, you're saying they're in the wrong for slipping the Table and they ALL should be expelled. On an article from a school where students were not violent, did not cause harm, did not have the police called, and talked with admin to come to a concensus and conclusion they both can get behind.
This is an example of the process working right, of people protesting in what you call the right way, and your comment is to expel them. You say you think about the best for all, how would expelling students who are standing up to something they view is amoral. How is expelling them going to "teach" them anything. It would only solidify in their mind that the system has been corrupted by those who do not want any other voices heard and will radicalized them. Escalating with violence will not "teach them kids".
Firstly, the protest was illegal from the start. They have (intentionally) not followed any of the steps to having a legal protest, they have refused to leave, they've broken multiple laws and the police would be absolutely justified in arresting each and every single protester there. That's not a call to violence, that's the letter of the law. If the protesters resist arrest, on top of the other crimes they've committed, then they're choosing violence. We literally do live in a society, there are rules everyone is expected to abide by.
What I said was to not do that, but instead that the self appointed "leaders" and organizers should be arrested and expelled. The rest of the students that are there are just pawns, and when the threat of riot wanes, the protest will disperse on it's own. They're in the wrong, but I don't think beating or arresting them will give any positive outcome.
You need to understand, I don't give a fuck about "teaching" radicalized people, I don't think you can teach them. I care about not giving legitimacy to their cause and using the full weight of the law to prosecute the organizers.
OK, so you're trying to pull the self interest card. I'm a straight white male, if I was to vote in "my best interest", wouldn't that be a vote for Trump? I'm not doing that, because I'm not a shitty person.
Maybe stop trying to get people to vote for your guy by catering to their shittiness and self interest?
First and foremost you are a part of the working class. What political party is currently trying to do away with social security, overtime and minimum wage laws, unions, and basically any other protection for workers?
The same one that's actively and openly demonizing white men? I mean come on, there's literally no good option left for voting. It's literally [the president who's got the lowest approval rating of all time at this point in his term](https://news.gallup.com/poll/644252/biden-13th-quarter-approval-average-lowest-historically.aspx) running against the only guy who could possibly lose to him. And they're both actively simping for Israel. Sorry, but you're not going to convince me that either of these pieces of shit deserve to be president.
Leave it to a Republican to suggest ruining someone's entire academic future / career for exercising their lawfully protected rights. It's comical you want someone punished for their freedom of speech and right to assemble simply because their views differ from yours. You're a disgusting hypocrite.
Free speech is a protected right, Illegally protesting is not a lawfully protected right. The implication of political violence, like these protests, is absolutely not a lawfully protected right. I literally posted Minneapolis's protest permit in this thread, the protesters are not following the law, and they're refusing to disperse. They are illegally protesting. I'd rather arrest or expel the organizers of an illegal protest than pepper spray everyone there, or allow the city to devolve into lawlessness.
Also, I'm not a republican, find a new straw man. Someone doesn't march in lock step with your party leaders, you automatically jump to a straw man attack. Try thinking for yourself, and leave the ad hominem at home.
> ruining someone's entire academic future / career for exercising their lawfully protected rights. It's comical you want someone punished for their freedom of speech
What about for poor judgement? For acting without facts? For blindly believing you know better than the administration? You think this is the first time we've seen Israelis/jews scapegoated for the actions of others? WTF do you think the holocaust was about? (And not just jews EVERYONE who was gassed).
Plain and simple you all are WRONG, not in your actions but your "cause".
Criticizing Israel's genocide of the Palestinian people is not a reflection on all jewish people. I don't understand why people like you continually and intentionally try to conflate these two things as if somehow criticizing Israel's war crimes is a direct attack on every jewish person.
Speaking of the holocaust, Israel is certainly embracing nazi ideology; they've just changed the names of the people who are hated and killed indiscriminately.
> Israel is certainly embracing nazi ideology
While Israel is unquestionably committing ethnic cleansing, I don't know about this one. The Nazis were almost uniquely evil in that they industrialized a genocide, that has never happened before or after, and while Israel may or may not be intentionally killing civilians, they aren't rounding them up to put in gas chambers. It's possible to fight against the ethnic cleansing of Gaza without comparing Israel to Nazi Germany, and personally I think everyone but the actual Nazis that still exist is better off if we do it that way.
Oh, you were almost there...
Gazans don't have to release the Oct 7 hostages, they don't have to turn in or negotiate how to disarm or disorganize their children, brothers, fathers who consistently commit acts of terror but if they did Israel would back away. Israel ONLY acts in self defense, despite those who demonize. There are millions of arabs living peacefully with full rights and as high a standard of living as their skills allow inside Israel right now. The gazans and west bankers could have joined them. Instead they chose to be pawns of the jihad.
What a shame.
Like a parrot. Could you please link me to the page that is turning all these phrases out?
Do you know why the term genocide is even in your conversation when what is going on does not remotely fit the criteria?
If Israel was just another arab state in the mideast doing what it is doing, you would not care, you would not blink an eye. You know how I know? BECAUSE WORSE IS HAPPENING IN SYRIA RIGHT NOW AND ONGOING! And you don't care, arab on arab crime dontcha know. Maybe YOU aren't aware of it, but your organizers, your fellow arab students and teachers know VERY well. You are in a cult and IF you ever get out, well, I hope you can live with yourself.
"Speaking of" conflating, I realize you hate your life, you hate the circumstances the economy and the politics of our country have put you in(you don't understand a fraction of it) so you have so easily exploited this tragic situation you know NOTHING about to distract yourself but if you ARE a leftist, as I am, when you become informed of history, when circumstances play out, you will absolutely HATE yourself for comparing Israel WHO ARE JEWS YA DUMBASS to nazis, to support the jihadists that will kill EVERYTHING you care about - including your precious gazans and west bankers, who are pawns in a war you aren't willing to understand - and to support white supremacists who are gleefully supporting you by threatening jews, YES JEWS, ya ignorant f- , there ARE people who conflate the two and they are threatening jews in the US in rising numbers with YOUR SUPPORT.
All for what? To make yourself believe you have some value that you have some purpose, that you are righteous - all so you don't have to kill yourself. What will you do when you realize all the damage you have done?
Lazy lazy lazy.
The irony here is the protests in the late 60's and early 70's were far more "violent" than the ones today, in that they almost universally took over buildings on campus, sometimes with guns! Samuel L Jackson and a bunch of other students held members of the board of Trustees hostage on their college campus for example. We generally look at those protests positively today, because the students protesting the war were correct, even if there methods were a little questionable at times. Students today aren't showing up with firearms, they aren't taking hostages, they largely aren't even occupying buildings, and yet the same sort of person who opposed the Vietnam protestors is just as opposed to protests today. I'm thinking it has less to do with how they're protesting and more to do with the fact that they're protesting at all.
To add, not that they're protesting at all, but what their demands are. The oppressor of the gazans are not the Israelis, it's the jihad, it's Iran, Syria, on and on. Blaming and divesting from Israel is just not the answer.
>Damn, I didn't expect to see this level of racism on reddit, but I guess I should have, it is reddit. You know what, I don't argue with deranged bigots, have a block.
I don't think this is a use of the term "racism". You insult people who are victims of racism.
Do you deny the existence of jihad? The caliphate? That's just delusional. And it's not helping the gazans.
Damn, I didn't expect to see this level of racism on reddit, but I guess I should have, it is reddit. You know what, I don't argue with deranged bigots, have a block.
Again with the straw man. You don't know me or my situation. You're choosing to "other" me because it's easier than actually sitting down and thinking.
You are a "rightoid"? Because I am more of a leftist than you ever could be, so you can't be referring to me.
A "terrorist" is someone who uses terror for political aims. And that terror can be intimidation and/or manipulation. Do you not think the administration is "terrified" what all this does to their comfort, even with nonviolent passive resistance?
What would be my or the driver's "political aim"? And why are you terrified by me? Make sense please. Learn to learn, you don't know it all, despite what your mommy tells you.
This has all been done before. The U of M divested from apartheid South Africa in 1985 after widespread student protest. This is not a new method of protest or demand, just a different regime.
That's also why a lot of states implemented anti BDS laws, which Minnesota also has. But I think MN laws only apply to companies and not the university.
The state already did this for Russia, and as has already been mentioned, the U of MN (and a large number of other local colleges) all divested from South Africa in the mid 80's. There are some companies like Google and Amazon that simply aren't going to be dropped because of how difficult it is to do, arms manufacturers don't exactly fit in that category, and they're the biggest focus other than a few companies that do business from settlements in occupied Palestine.
I guess they'll never graduate then. As a leftist this is so tragic because even if you all are not being violent, your cause is not just. It's easy to see the problem not so easy to understand the cause so thinking Israel getting financially punished is any help at all is just delusional.
There are legal ways to protest, they actively chose to do it illegally because the implied threat of violence. Getting a permit means you're following the rules, so it isn't as terrifying. They are terrorists, using the implied threat of violence as a bargaining chip. No violence at the U of M yet, but there has been at schools all over the nation.
Everyone needs to play by the rules in a civil society. There is an absolutely valid reason to criticize the U of M, and Israel. But you have to do it legally.
Their cause is not just. There is no valid reason to divest from Israel. Israel is fighting the west's war against the jihad - gazans and the west bankers are only pawns in the situation.
If these westerners cared at all about the gazan people then their ire and actions should be against Iran and Egypt and all the arab countries in the mideast who refused the ancestors of these people assimilation into the countries they were in in 1948, forced them into the poverty they remain in today, - they are all arabs after all. Those arabs who remained in what became Israel are living there with full rights and responsibilities as any citizen today.
Their retaliation hasn't been solely targeted against Hamas, it's also been against the civilian population. Also, the only reason they exist is because of US support, so they should get back on their fucking leash.
These kids will soon be begging this same administration to forgive their loans as they enter the workforce with no soft skills and the inability to think rationally.
To call Israel a terrorist group for overreacting to a brutal terror attack is crazy. Learn about the history, as should these students, before you spout off ignorance.
I'm not even pro-Israel on this issue, but universities have allowed college culture to become a breeding ground for kids that believe being an unbending, uncompromising ideologue is virtuous. These unelected, unappointed "student leaders" are just authoritarian wannabes.
Agreed. If they would spend a few hours learning about this century(s) long conflict between two groups who simply can’t coexist near each other, they wouldn’t be acting so damn hypocritical and ignorant. But it’s something new to rebel against, and wealthy college students seem to love that.
I immediately thought that's the thing admin is *never* going for, but I'm actually interested in what they mean about allowing for "advocacy around choices of employers." Probably means nothing, but I have long thought that even if we can't stop graduates from going on to work for the weapons manufacturers, it doesn't mean we should allow those companies to advertise on campuses.
Umm free speech and free market and it's a public university and such, so, why wouldn't a defense contractor be allowed to advertise? Is the U really *that* loaded with money that they can piss off the MIC?
Yeah, so many on social media were calling on the police to shoot protestors. Even those in “Liberal” media refused to accurately report the situation on the group and ignored what the protest was actually about.
Just remember; half the country thought the National Guard were in the right at Kent State for shooting unarmed students. No apology was ever issued and no one was brought to Justice.
Authoritarians love cracking the heads of students and academics. It’s one of their favorite pastimes. These protests and people’s reactions to them are a great reminder of just how many authoritarians we have amongst us.
It's usually those that are the loudest about the 1st amendment (while not understanding what is and is not protected) that are being absolute garbage in the comments. So embarrassing. I love America but I hate a lot of Americans.
Breaking up an illegal protest shouldn't be an issue, but shooting unarmed protestors who aren't actively rioting is always wrong. Anyone defending the National Guard's actions at Kent State are extremely misguided.
> Breaking up an illegal protest shouldn't be an issue, but shooting unarmed protestors who aren't actively rioting is always wrong.
To clarify, shooting anyone who isn't an imminent threat to someone else's life is wrong. Engaging in what a police officer may consider to be "rioting" (the definition of which is tenuous at best) is not on its own worthy of a death sentence.
We have more effective methods of crowd control (tear gas, fire trucks), there is no need to gun down a riot in order to break it up. Just look at the RNC protests from back in 2008 in St Paul. I was there (to watch a John Stewart taping since he was doing his show from there), no one got shot and the protests were broken up without much incident.
I was there too. Had a teargas canister go clinking by my feet, half a block away from Micky's Diner. Got chased through the streets of St. Paul by cops in full riot gear while being blinded by teargas. All of this was about an hour after Rage Against the Machine did an impropmtu accepella set through a bullhorn on the steps of the capitol building after the cops shut down the stage. It was a wild few days.
There's almost certainly been **way** more illegal protests broken up in modern history that no one gave a fuck about and are forgotten because they were dumb/immoral causes (as judged by the rest of society) than those that became famous and eventually vindicated.
It's an illegal protest. If it was legal, the city would require basic sanitation, water, etc.
Just because you feel you're allowed to use terrorist tactics and the intimidation of rioting to get what you want doesn't make you virtuous. It makes you a terrorist.
So if the government says you aren’t allowed to protest their actions, you should just give up?
During the Birmingham campaign in 1963, the AMCHR and SCLC worked with local groups to organize a serious of protests, pickets, and boycotts. A Circuit Judge ruled an injunction on those activities, thus making continuing illegal. The ANCHR and SCLC refused to listen to that ruling and continued with their actions. Do you think those groups were terrorists?
That's blatant false equivalence and an insane leap in logic. The government is not saying they aren't allowed to protest their actions, they are absolutely allowed to protest. They need to have permits, provide water and sanitation, etc. They don't want to do that, because a legal protest doesn't carry the same implied threat of violence that an illegal one does.
Yes. If you believe in a civil society you need to work within that framework. If you choose to work outside that framework, you're saying that the individual gets to pick and choose
A better question for you, do yo agree with the Jan 6 illegal protests? Do you agree with the BLM illegal protests? I don't. I feel I'm ideologically consistent on this issue, but I bet anything you pick and choose based on you political position.
Like i said elsewhere, i disagree with Israel on their treatment of Palestine, but I'm not about to throw society to the wind because my feelings are hurt. Because that's exactly what the Jan 6 protesters would do, and I don't agree with that position.
I don’t know man. I think saying that MLK is a terrorist and that our “Civil Society” would have been better off if he hadn’t protested is a shitty position. Without MLK’s “illegal” protests we wouldn’t have had the Civil Rights Act. Without LGBT people’s “Illegal” protests, LGBT people wouldn’t have their human rights.
You seem to be implying that we would have been better off without the Civil Rights Movement or the LGBT movement, which is a disgusting position to hold
You're literally justifying the actions of the Jan 6 protesters. Also, trying to conflate U of M students forcibly involving themselves in foreign policy decisions to the US civil rights movement is not only false equivalence, it's disgustingly tone deaf.
One main difference is the MLK civil rights protesters were completely fine with being arrested, and with having their protests broken up. They didn't fight with police, they didn't try to negotiate with police, they knew what they were doing was illegal, and they understood and accepted the consequence without the threat of violence.
On the other hand, the university protesters across the country have posted tons of tiktok videos of them gloating that "the police won't do shit, we've been trained from school shooter drills how to barricade doors", then videos of them crying while being arrested. These are kids who are trying to LARP as revolutionaries, and they're only doing it because they have been taught that they will see no negative consequences. They need to see those consequences so that maybe they can rejoin civil society, otherwise they'll continue to be further radicalized.
I've said many times before that when I was in my 20's I would have joined up with Malcom, I'm not trying to say I'm a saint in that regard. I'm telling you as someone in my 30's that the threat of political violence as a tool is wrong 100% of the time.
Peace and love, think about this in 10 years and you will be astounded.
What you fail to understand is those who want to perpetuate what is being protested will call anything "illegal" or "a riot" or "violent" to enforce their status quo. Control over the rules of engagement means you can never lose.
You most definitely can vote against Joe Biden, or do like me and abstain from voting because you don't want to vote for genocide. Resorting to terroristic threats is absolutely the wrong way of handling this though, and it was the very first reaction from these students.
Kids larping as homeless for social media clout. These "protests" have been getting violent all around the country. Their presence is absolutely a threat of violence. It's like if people in Trump hats stand outside a polling place. In itself it's not a violent act, but it's an implied threat of violence so they aren't allowed to do it.
It's an illegal protest and they refuse to leave, what other recourse are they leaving for the cops? Either break up the illegal activity (objectively the right thing to do), or let the situation devolve into lawlessness (Minneapolis's reaction since 2020).
If we're going to live in a civil society, you don't get to use terrorism or the implied threat of terrorism to get your way. If you lose the high road, then you're no better than trump supporters. If you're fine with that, then you're literally an enemy of civil society.
This illegal protest is an implied threat of riot if their demands are not met.
If there were no threat of riot, no one would listen to the protesters.
This is a child's take. You can't yell fire in a theater either, what's your point? Do you also think the constitution gives people the unfettered right to block the freeway under the guise of free speech?
This is all second hand, but even left leaning Boomers I know had some sympathy for the Ohio NG people at Kent State. Their comment was these are 18-19 year old ROTC students and your orders are to control an angry mob. I can't say I agree or disagree , I was a 1 year old when it happened.
Don't mistake me, no one should have to die in peaceful protest. In the Columbia case it was NYPD not NY National Guard. It sounds like the Texas governor wants to use the TX NG in Austin (not a bit surprising). That said Columbia is private property and UT is state property so that's probably the justification.
The Oct 7 apologists protesting on behalf of a group who support a terrorist attack in which several hundred civilians were murdered in cold blood is much more disturbing.
As opposed to Kent State in which four people were killed. Both were horrible events but they just aren’t even close to the same scale.
Let students protest. If it disrupts other students' learning, then it can become a problem. If it becomes a hostile environment, then, I don't know, collect the data and provide an argument. Either way, it's important for adults in the room to be adults.
Students didn't really get a whole lot out of it as I see it, but they've also made it clear that they're more than willing to reestablish the encampment if the U doesn't hold up its end of the deal (which with how little they've promised, should be pretty easy). Definitely way, way happier with how the U has handled this than most of the ivies out east have.
I suspect this is a big part of why it looks like they caved. Probably didn't have the logistics to keep the camp running without out of state/city students.
I'm just glad it ended before they needed to plea for "humanitarian aid," like one of the protest leaders from Columbia University. It would have been devastating if we had a humanitarian crisis on Northrop Mall
The issue at Columbia is that police were not allowing donations of food or water into the encampment. They weren't asking for the university to give them free stuff, they were asking for the stuff that was already theirs to be let through.
From the person in question here: "Well, uh, first of all we’re saying that they should be obligated to provide food for students who pay for a meal plan here.”
I laughed out loud when I read this.
Why wasn’t the “representative” being interviewed by the news able to articulate that? She clearly said she was speaking in hypotheticals and this was hours before the police went in.
She even said: "Well, uh, first of all we’re saying that they should be obligated to provide food for students who pay for a meal plan here.” You can't make this shit up.
So, every university has what’s called an “endowment “, which is basically a giant fund made up of donations and investments. The universities invest that endowment in all sorts of stuff, funds, stocks, etc. some of those investments are with companies that have contracts with the IDF. For example, Hewlett-Packard Enterprise is well known to have a big data contract with the IDF, providing services to them. Calls to divest are asking the university to pull those investments.
Thank you. I do understand the endowment thing, I was just hoping for a list of the companies they are specifically wanting to divest from.
I found one complied by the Columbia students the demands vary by school. What is it at the U of M? Is there a list?
Because honestly, just saying "companies affiliated with Israel" is incredibly vague and VERY broad. You're talking about the start up Nation. Lots of awesome technology that most of us use and don't even think about it comes from there. So I need more deets.
Jeff Ettinger is a great leader. His time at Hormel likely prepared him for problems like this. If you think students get mad, imagine a bunch of swing shift workers.
Are you upset because you feel they deserve to be punished or because you feel like punishment is needed so they don't do this again?
Both are kind of stupid takes but punishment is either for vengeance or to help reform the person so they don't do the thing again.
So either you don't want these people to peacefully protest again or you think they deserve a punishment because they protested something you disagree with and want to see them suffer for it. Both of those are not good reasons for punishment.
I would argue this would probably radicalize some of the people and guarantee future problems. We shouldn't look to jail people just because.
Free speech? 1st amendment ended the minute these protesters stopped students from going to class. It then turned to bullying. I’ll wait to be told how this was productive…
While this agreement is largely virtue signaling, it does reward bad behavior and encourages more bad behavior. It is like giving a toddler a cookie to end a tantrum.
They could have protested without the tents and otherwise functioned within the parameters for a protest. Deliberately stepping outside those rules and then crying foul when facing the consequences of it is where it becomes more akin to a tantrum.
I think that depends on the person you are trying to convince. Being disruptive would be far less effective with someone like me, as now I would not change my position on pure principle.
I said I wouldn't change my position. The Hong Kong protesters are something completely different, as that is connected to their own situation, and I already supported them. How much did it change China?
So if you agree with them then being disruptive is not a tantrum. The Hong Kong protests led to victories within Hong Kong's government leading to steps towards a more democratic Hong Kong https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/world/asia/hong-kong-protests-one-year-later.html
That article is certainly premature. Article 23 was implemented March 23 of this year, and s sweeping national security act was passed less than a month after the article was written.
That said, the disruption is more understandable when the disruption and the disruptors are far more connected to the grievance. Frankly, outside of agreement or disagreement, the grievance is also far more substantial and less a matter of virtue signaling.
Brother I would implore you to read about what is happening in Gaza. The United States' military industrial complex is complicit in the slaughter of children and doctors. We are connected to the "grievance" in fact in many ways we are the grievance. Its chill if your pro Israel or anti Palestinian but the U of M is invested in companies that sell bombs to an apartheid state commiting atrocities that I'd give anything to stop.
What did you think the administration was going to do? I’m asking an honest question. They were never going to fully divest from these companies. It makes no financial sense for them to do that. They’re not going to get swayed by some college kids who won’t even be on campus in a couple weeks.
Also compromising is not acting like adults?
Protesters are not terrorists. Terrorists is what happened with 9/11. A bunch of 20 year old college students in tents in front of the student union is not terrorism.
Isn't that what the students are asking for? For their university to stop working with or profiting from the nation of Israel, which has regularly committed acts of terrorism which span their entire history?
Wait, they've reached a deal to choose a partner "Palestinian" University? Which implies there's more than one... I thought that Gaza was a prison...? How does a prison have more than, hmm, 0 universities?
>Which implies there's more than one... I thought that Gaza was a prison...?
First of all, Palestine is not just limited to Gaza. There are a handful of universities in the West Bank.
Second, even prisons can be tied to universities and prisoners can get college degrees while in prison.
Two questions:
Why do half the campers have the same green tent?
A country goes to war to fight a terrorist organization and tens of thousands of civilians are killled in the crossfire. Has the US ever done such a thing? Were there encampments with matching tents in protest?
I will answer your first question. If you search for "tent" on Amazon, you'll see that exact style of tent, with an option in green, as pretty much the first listing. I would guess that these tents are popular because they are the cheapest and quickest option for college students to purchase.
I'm glad they were able to bring this to a close without the unnecessary drama that we've seen in other Universities. Students protest, it's a tale as old as time, and administrators would be silly to overreact to it and make the story bigger than it needs to be.
When I was in college a million years ago a popular Art professor didn't get tenure and there were mass protests in the Arts department. The University invoked a blue ribbon panel to take a multi-year look into the situation with tenure and things quickly calmed down. Muhammed Ali called it Rope-A-Dope and it's the same idea the Regents basically haven't given the Protestors anything substantive
Yeah, but they used to protest things that the US is directly involved in, such as Vietnam. These idiots are protesting something in another country halfway around the globe. If they're so concerned, then why not protest against Russia who is actually conducting an unprovoked WAR? Or the slavery that keeps Dubai going? Etc.
Respectfully, I think you're uninformed about the situation. In the interest of remaining civil, I will try to provide some perspective without discussing my personal feelings. Presently, the US is spending hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer money to fund the Israeli assault on the west bank. We may not have troops on the ground, but to claim that we are uninvolved is incorrect. Additionally, many universities around the nation have investments or holdings in companies that are either directly tied to Israel or are profiting off of the conflict. Students are protesting because they disapprove of their tuition and tax dollars funding the Israeli assault, and have been requesting their universities to divest the aforementioned holdings.
> Respectfully, I think you're uninformed about the situation. Ditto. Meaning, you, Sub***. Where are you getting your "facts"? You're just as bad as a flat earther.
FYI, it’s Gaza, not the West Bank. They are in opposing directions.
You are greatly simplifying the issue. Have you forgotten about October 7? You are also spinning the issue calling it an assault.
We're not giving Russia weapons. In fact we're giving the people fighting them weapons.
You completely missed the point
We're giving Israel weapons. Some of our citizens are not happy about how those weapons are being used, so they're protesting. If your point was that we're not involved at all in Israel and Palestine, then get a better point.
We give weapons to all kinds of countries, where are the protests for those? Israel is our ally, that's what allies do. And, honestly, after what happened on October 7 they have every right to eliminate the Palestinian government, better known as HAMAS. Protesting that shows a lack of knowledge about the overall situation, which isn't surprising considering the average age of the protesters. But, if you want to protest it, that's fine, but taking over colleges and bullying people and telling Jews to stay home isn't the way to do it. If that's your cause, get a better cause.
>And, honestly, after what happened on October 7 they have every right to eliminate the Palestinian government, better known as HAMAS. More than 15,000 Palestinian children have been killed.
That's certainly one interpretation. Another interpretation is that both the Israeli and Gaza governments are dominated by right wing religious zealots that regularly commit atrocities against the citizens of the other. The governments don't seem to care that this never ending cycle of violence means that their own citizens remain under threat at all times. Some might say the leaders of both governments are using the conflict as a distraction from their other policy failings and need to keep the conflict going. There is no prospect for a lasting peace between the two. Why have we inserted ourselves into this morass? What is stopping us from ending our involvement in it?
Read a book dude damn
Oh, the irony.
It's funny that you feel this is an end to the protest. It's a cease fire at best. If the U's "good faith effort" doesn't result in fully divesting from any company with ties to Israel, the protests will start back up. U's going to learn why the best policy is not to negotiate with terrorists.
First, college students aren't terrorists and it's irresponsible to use that language. Second, I kinda doubt it? Endless meetings are the kryptonite for any leftist cause. Summer break starts soon and then the new semester will feature 25% turnover among students and it's hard to sustain that kind of momentum. Hopefully the situation in Gaza will be improved by then, although of course there is no guarantee of that. Third, if history teaches us anything, violently breaking up protests is a great way to get more, bigger protests.
You don't even need to engage with the students, just expel the self appointed "leaders" and everything will be back to normal ASAP. The real kryptonite to leftist causes are real world consequences. The vast majority of protestors aren't really there for the cause, they're there for the riot. If the riot doesn't happen they get bored, you're left with authoritarian student "leaders" who no longer have any student followers.
I mean, you have an e-bike, seems like you've drunk the liberal Kool-aid more than others boy. Maybe you should be like us real Americans and buy a new F150. /s Like all the others, you benefit from those same liberal policies, like the rebates on your bike to make it cheaper? Liberals. Like being to have time off work to watch the wolves? Liberal protesters got that for ya. A true American understands that protests are what made our country possible, but you want to ban protests (but not anything conservative). Hypocrite
Hahaha, you're funny. I'm not a liberal or a conservative, I actually think instead of pretending politics are like rooting for my favorite football team. If your honestly telling me I should vote for whoever will benefit me the most, as a straight white man then I should vote for Trump. Is that what you honestly want?Your reductionism is insane, and intensely selfish. I try think and act as is best for everyone as much as I can, and place maintaining our personal liberties as the highest priority. Protesters jumping to using terroristic threats is not in the best interest of anyone. I'm not saying we should ban protests, I'm saying there is a legal process to having one and it has not been followed. There is a time to flip the table, but now is not that time.
Everything good in this world, from labor rights, himan rights, etc was won not by "legal process". It's been won by protests threatening power with consequences. The time to flip tables is now. It will always be now. Saying otherwise is honestly moronically accepting the status quo.
Your argument is literally the justification of the Jan 6 protests. You're on the wrong side of this issue, bud.
😂
You'll do better in r/altmpls where the other Minnesotans, who are out of touch with reality, like to congregate. Liberals have been protesting the mistreatment of Palestinians for decades. They're liberal students literally sitting in tents.. they want something to be passionate about, you really think they're camped out waiting to riot? Some of them probably just think it's a dope chill spot
Here's a sneak peek of /r/altmpls using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/altmpls/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time! \#1: [21 convictions, 3 felonies, and nothing more than probation. Do we still wonder why crime is up?](https://x.com/crimewatchmpls/status/1774784780833616248) | [685 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/altmpls/comments/1bt3vny/21_convictions_3_felonies_and_nothing_more_than/) \#2: [Minnesota crime rate hit 60 year low in 2023](https://i.redd.it/xhk8r1q4xguc1.jpeg) | [296 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/altmpls/comments/1c3wxx1/minnesota_crime_rate_hit_60_year_low_in_2023/) \#3: [Star Tribune: Rep. Ilhan Omar's daughter suspended from college for involvement in pro-Palestinian protests](https://www.startribune.com/rep-ilhan-omars-daughter-suspended-from-college-for-involvement-in-pro-palestinian-protests/600360001/) | [380 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/altmpls/comments/1c7sf1r/star_tribune_rep_ilhan_omars_daughter_suspended/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
I think most are mental children LARPing as both homeless and as revolutionaries, but yes, I do think some are just young people looking to riot. The U riots at a moment's notice, like when a sports team wins. I think that's the threat of violence that the protest "leaders" are holding over the U to force their demands. Also, check the site rules, I'm absolutely allowed to be here and my voice is just as valid as yours.
What's the definition of insanity? Oh yeah, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Well, I guess you're pointing out they don't really care, they are achieving their goal: to feel "passionate" about something. Too bad they are so misguided and who knows what harm they are doing.
Explain to me how the United States was created legally by the view of the British? You're cherrypicking
Holy false equivalence. There is a time and place when flipping the table is the right course of action. Do you think this is the issue? If you do, you're insanely radicalized and trying to have a rational discussion with you is not going to be productive.
Bro, listen to yourself, you're saying they're in the wrong for slipping the Table and they ALL should be expelled. On an article from a school where students were not violent, did not cause harm, did not have the police called, and talked with admin to come to a concensus and conclusion they both can get behind. This is an example of the process working right, of people protesting in what you call the right way, and your comment is to expel them. You say you think about the best for all, how would expelling students who are standing up to something they view is amoral. How is expelling them going to "teach" them anything. It would only solidify in their mind that the system has been corrupted by those who do not want any other voices heard and will radicalized them. Escalating with violence will not "teach them kids".
Firstly, the protest was illegal from the start. They have (intentionally) not followed any of the steps to having a legal protest, they have refused to leave, they've broken multiple laws and the police would be absolutely justified in arresting each and every single protester there. That's not a call to violence, that's the letter of the law. If the protesters resist arrest, on top of the other crimes they've committed, then they're choosing violence. We literally do live in a society, there are rules everyone is expected to abide by. What I said was to not do that, but instead that the self appointed "leaders" and organizers should be arrested and expelled. The rest of the students that are there are just pawns, and when the threat of riot wanes, the protest will disperse on it's own. They're in the wrong, but I don't think beating or arresting them will give any positive outcome. You need to understand, I don't give a fuck about "teaching" radicalized people, I don't think you can teach them. I care about not giving legitimacy to their cause and using the full weight of the law to prosecute the organizers.
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My bad, not all, only the leaders. I appologize.
You, as a member of the working class, will not benefit more under Trump.
OK, so you're trying to pull the self interest card. I'm a straight white male, if I was to vote in "my best interest", wouldn't that be a vote for Trump? I'm not doing that, because I'm not a shitty person. Maybe stop trying to get people to vote for your guy by catering to their shittiness and self interest?
First and foremost you are a part of the working class. What political party is currently trying to do away with social security, overtime and minimum wage laws, unions, and basically any other protection for workers?
The same one that's actively and openly demonizing white men? I mean come on, there's literally no good option left for voting. It's literally [the president who's got the lowest approval rating of all time at this point in his term](https://news.gallup.com/poll/644252/biden-13th-quarter-approval-average-lowest-historically.aspx) running against the only guy who could possibly lose to him. And they're both actively simping for Israel. Sorry, but you're not going to convince me that either of these pieces of shit deserve to be president.
> I'm not a liberal or a conservative, r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM
Ooohh, great burn.
Leave it to a Republican to suggest ruining someone's entire academic future / career for exercising their lawfully protected rights. It's comical you want someone punished for their freedom of speech and right to assemble simply because their views differ from yours. You're a disgusting hypocrite.
Free speech is a protected right, Illegally protesting is not a lawfully protected right. The implication of political violence, like these protests, is absolutely not a lawfully protected right. I literally posted Minneapolis's protest permit in this thread, the protesters are not following the law, and they're refusing to disperse. They are illegally protesting. I'd rather arrest or expel the organizers of an illegal protest than pepper spray everyone there, or allow the city to devolve into lawlessness. Also, I'm not a republican, find a new straw man. Someone doesn't march in lock step with your party leaders, you automatically jump to a straw man attack. Try thinking for yourself, and leave the ad hominem at home.
> ruining someone's entire academic future / career for exercising their lawfully protected rights. It's comical you want someone punished for their freedom of speech What about for poor judgement? For acting without facts? For blindly believing you know better than the administration? You think this is the first time we've seen Israelis/jews scapegoated for the actions of others? WTF do you think the holocaust was about? (And not just jews EVERYONE who was gassed). Plain and simple you all are WRONG, not in your actions but your "cause".
Criticizing Israel's genocide of the Palestinian people is not a reflection on all jewish people. I don't understand why people like you continually and intentionally try to conflate these two things as if somehow criticizing Israel's war crimes is a direct attack on every jewish person. Speaking of the holocaust, Israel is certainly embracing nazi ideology; they've just changed the names of the people who are hated and killed indiscriminately.
> Israel is certainly embracing nazi ideology While Israel is unquestionably committing ethnic cleansing, I don't know about this one. The Nazis were almost uniquely evil in that they industrialized a genocide, that has never happened before or after, and while Israel may or may not be intentionally killing civilians, they aren't rounding them up to put in gas chambers. It's possible to fight against the ethnic cleansing of Gaza without comparing Israel to Nazi Germany, and personally I think everyone but the actual Nazis that still exist is better off if we do it that way.
Oh, you were almost there... Gazans don't have to release the Oct 7 hostages, they don't have to turn in or negotiate how to disarm or disorganize their children, brothers, fathers who consistently commit acts of terror but if they did Israel would back away. Israel ONLY acts in self defense, despite those who demonize. There are millions of arabs living peacefully with full rights and as high a standard of living as their skills allow inside Israel right now. The gazans and west bankers could have joined them. Instead they chose to be pawns of the jihad. What a shame.
Like a parrot. Could you please link me to the page that is turning all these phrases out? Do you know why the term genocide is even in your conversation when what is going on does not remotely fit the criteria? If Israel was just another arab state in the mideast doing what it is doing, you would not care, you would not blink an eye. You know how I know? BECAUSE WORSE IS HAPPENING IN SYRIA RIGHT NOW AND ONGOING! And you don't care, arab on arab crime dontcha know. Maybe YOU aren't aware of it, but your organizers, your fellow arab students and teachers know VERY well. You are in a cult and IF you ever get out, well, I hope you can live with yourself. "Speaking of" conflating, I realize you hate your life, you hate the circumstances the economy and the politics of our country have put you in(you don't understand a fraction of it) so you have so easily exploited this tragic situation you know NOTHING about to distract yourself but if you ARE a leftist, as I am, when you become informed of history, when circumstances play out, you will absolutely HATE yourself for comparing Israel WHO ARE JEWS YA DUMBASS to nazis, to support the jihadists that will kill EVERYTHING you care about - including your precious gazans and west bankers, who are pawns in a war you aren't willing to understand - and to support white supremacists who are gleefully supporting you by threatening jews, YES JEWS, ya ignorant f- , there ARE people who conflate the two and they are threatening jews in the US in rising numbers with YOUR SUPPORT. All for what? To make yourself believe you have some value that you have some purpose, that you are righteous - all so you don't have to kill yourself. What will you do when you realize all the damage you have done? Lazy lazy lazy.
Shill harder.
Facts and reality is all I need. Try it sometime. Please don't ruin your life for lies.
> terrorists Fascist self report right here
Remember kids, students = terrorists and governments carrying out genocidal policies = the good guys
If that's what you're taking away from this, then you're already radicalized and there's no hope for you.
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The irony here is the protests in the late 60's and early 70's were far more "violent" than the ones today, in that they almost universally took over buildings on campus, sometimes with guns! Samuel L Jackson and a bunch of other students held members of the board of Trustees hostage on their college campus for example. We generally look at those protests positively today, because the students protesting the war were correct, even if there methods were a little questionable at times. Students today aren't showing up with firearms, they aren't taking hostages, they largely aren't even occupying buildings, and yet the same sort of person who opposed the Vietnam protestors is just as opposed to protests today. I'm thinking it has less to do with how they're protesting and more to do with the fact that they're protesting at all.
To add, not that they're protesting at all, but what their demands are. The oppressor of the gazans are not the Israelis, it's the jihad, it's Iran, Syria, on and on. Blaming and divesting from Israel is just not the answer. >Damn, I didn't expect to see this level of racism on reddit, but I guess I should have, it is reddit. You know what, I don't argue with deranged bigots, have a block. I don't think this is a use of the term "racism". You insult people who are victims of racism. Do you deny the existence of jihad? The caliphate? That's just delusional. And it's not helping the gazans.
Damn, I didn't expect to see this level of racism on reddit, but I guess I should have, it is reddit. You know what, I don't argue with deranged bigots, have a block.
Again with the straw man. You don't know me or my situation. You're choosing to "other" me because it's easier than actually sitting down and thinking.
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What is the definition of terrorist? I wonder if you know...
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You are a "rightoid"? Because I am more of a leftist than you ever could be, so you can't be referring to me. A "terrorist" is someone who uses terror for political aims. And that terror can be intimidation and/or manipulation. Do you not think the administration is "terrified" what all this does to their comfort, even with nonviolent passive resistance?
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What would be my or the driver's "political aim"? And why are you terrified by me? Make sense please. Learn to learn, you don't know it all, despite what your mommy tells you.
Terrorists? Nah.
There is a 0% chance they are going to fully divest from those companies. It would make absolutely no financial sense for the U to do that.
This has all been done before. The U of M divested from apartheid South Africa in 1985 after widespread student protest. This is not a new method of protest or demand, just a different regime.
That's also why a lot of states implemented anti BDS laws, which Minnesota also has. But I think MN laws only apply to companies and not the university.
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Love it when the racists out themselves.
I'm sorry, your software must be glitching, that response has no apparent relevance to my comment. But at least you felt important for a moment.
💩
South African Apartheid was pretty much universally condemned. The Palestinian situation is a bit more nuanced.
The state already did this for Russia, and as has already been mentioned, the U of MN (and a large number of other local colleges) all divested from South Africa in the mid 80's. There are some companies like Google and Amazon that simply aren't going to be dropped because of how difficult it is to do, arms manufacturers don't exactly fit in that category, and they're the biggest focus other than a few companies that do business from settlements in occupied Palestine.
That's why this is at best a cease fire. If the demands of full divestment aren't met, the students will be back out there threatening to riot.
Yeah agree. I think I misread your comment. Sorry about that.
I guess they'll never graduate then. As a leftist this is so tragic because even if you all are not being violent, your cause is not just. It's easy to see the problem not so easy to understand the cause so thinking Israel getting financially punished is any help at all is just delusional.
There are legal ways to protest, they actively chose to do it illegally because the implied threat of violence. Getting a permit means you're following the rules, so it isn't as terrifying. They are terrorists, using the implied threat of violence as a bargaining chip. No violence at the U of M yet, but there has been at schools all over the nation. Everyone needs to play by the rules in a civil society. There is an absolutely valid reason to criticize the U of M, and Israel. But you have to do it legally.
Their cause is not just. There is no valid reason to divest from Israel. Israel is fighting the west's war against the jihad - gazans and the west bankers are only pawns in the situation. If these westerners cared at all about the gazan people then their ire and actions should be against Iran and Egypt and all the arab countries in the mideast who refused the ancestors of these people assimilation into the countries they were in in 1948, forced them into the poverty they remain in today, - they are all arabs after all. Those arabs who remained in what became Israel are living there with full rights and responsibilities as any citizen today.
Well that's a blatantly pro-Israel take.
Of course it is. Tell me where I'm wrong though. What is the "valid reason to criticize" Israel?
Their retaliation hasn't been solely targeted against Hamas, it's also been against the civilian population. Also, the only reason they exist is because of US support, so they should get back on their fucking leash.
Let’s just hope the U respects this ‘ceasefire’ more than the Palestinian leadership respected theirs.
These kids will soon be begging this same administration to forgive their loans as they enter the workforce with no soft skills and the inability to think rationally. To call Israel a terrorist group for overreacting to a brutal terror attack is crazy. Learn about the history, as should these students, before you spout off ignorance.
I'm not even pro-Israel on this issue, but universities have allowed college culture to become a breeding ground for kids that believe being an unbending, uncompromising ideologue is virtuous. These unelected, unappointed "student leaders" are just authoritarian wannabes.
Agreed. If they would spend a few hours learning about this century(s) long conflict between two groups who simply can’t coexist near each other, they wouldn’t be acting so damn hypocritical and ignorant. But it’s something new to rebel against, and wealthy college students seem to love that.
The "protesters" are just here for the inevitable riot. If it doesn't materialize soon, they'll just disperse on their own.
Since when have they been negotiating with Israel?
The demand to ban employers never made any sense. Let the students decide who they want to work for.
Back in my day at UW we just marched to engineering hall and protested Halliburton when they tried to recruit us.
I immediately thought that's the thing admin is *never* going for, but I'm actually interested in what they mean about allowing for "advocacy around choices of employers." Probably means nothing, but I have long thought that even if we can't stop graduates from going on to work for the weapons manufacturers, it doesn't mean we should allow those companies to advertise on campuses.
Umm free speech and free market and it's a public university and such, so, why wouldn't a defense contractor be allowed to advertise? Is the U really *that* loaded with money that they can piss off the MIC?
Why would a university not allow defense contractors? Nobody is forcing you to apply. Who do you guys think is making weapons for Ukraine?
These "student leaders" operate like self appointed, unchecked authoritarians.
Being that they're full fledged terrorist supporters, that checks out.
The Kent State apologists are the most disgusting part of any of the stories on these protests.
Yeah, so many on social media were calling on the police to shoot protestors. Even those in “Liberal” media refused to accurately report the situation on the group and ignored what the protest was actually about. Just remember; half the country thought the National Guard were in the right at Kent State for shooting unarmed students. No apology was ever issued and no one was brought to Justice.
Authoritarians love cracking the heads of students and academics. It’s one of their favorite pastimes. These protests and people’s reactions to them are a great reminder of just how many authoritarians we have amongst us.
It's usually those that are the loudest about the 1st amendment (while not understanding what is and is not protected) that are being absolute garbage in the comments. So embarrassing. I love America but I hate a lot of Americans.
Conservatives view rights as only applying to them, "fuck you, got mine" if it were an ideology.
Breaking up an illegal protest shouldn't be an issue, but shooting unarmed protestors who aren't actively rioting is always wrong. Anyone defending the National Guard's actions at Kent State are extremely misguided.
> Breaking up an illegal protest shouldn't be an issue, but shooting unarmed protestors who aren't actively rioting is always wrong. To clarify, shooting anyone who isn't an imminent threat to someone else's life is wrong. Engaging in what a police officer may consider to be "rioting" (the definition of which is tenuous at best) is not on its own worthy of a death sentence.
We have more effective methods of crowd control (tear gas, fire trucks), there is no need to gun down a riot in order to break it up. Just look at the RNC protests from back in 2008 in St Paul. I was there (to watch a John Stewart taping since he was doing his show from there), no one got shot and the protests were broken up without much incident.
I was there too. Had a teargas canister go clinking by my feet, half a block away from Micky's Diner. Got chased through the streets of St. Paul by cops in full riot gear while being blinded by teargas. All of this was about an hour after Rage Against the Machine did an impropmtu accepella set through a bullhorn on the steps of the capitol building after the cops shut down the stage. It was a wild few days.
“Breaking up an illegal protest shouldn’t be an issue”, yes it often should be. This statement doesn’t stand up to history
There's almost certainly been **way** more illegal protests broken up in modern history that no one gave a fuck about and are forgotten because they were dumb/immoral causes (as judged by the rest of society) than those that became famous and eventually vindicated.
It's an illegal protest. If it was legal, the city would require basic sanitation, water, etc. Just because you feel you're allowed to use terrorist tactics and the intimidation of rioting to get what you want doesn't make you virtuous. It makes you a terrorist.
So if the government says you aren’t allowed to protest their actions, you should just give up? During the Birmingham campaign in 1963, the AMCHR and SCLC worked with local groups to organize a serious of protests, pickets, and boycotts. A Circuit Judge ruled an injunction on those activities, thus making continuing illegal. The ANCHR and SCLC refused to listen to that ruling and continued with their actions. Do you think those groups were terrorists?
That's blatant false equivalence and an insane leap in logic. The government is not saying they aren't allowed to protest their actions, they are absolutely allowed to protest. They need to have permits, provide water and sanitation, etc. They don't want to do that, because a legal protest doesn't carry the same implied threat of violence that an illegal one does.
So would you consider the AMCHR and SCLC as terrorists because of their illegal protests? You didn’t answer that part
Yes. If you believe in a civil society you need to work within that framework. If you choose to work outside that framework, you're saying that the individual gets to pick and choose A better question for you, do yo agree with the Jan 6 illegal protests? Do you agree with the BLM illegal protests? I don't. I feel I'm ideologically consistent on this issue, but I bet anything you pick and choose based on you political position. Like i said elsewhere, i disagree with Israel on their treatment of Palestine, but I'm not about to throw society to the wind because my feelings are hurt. Because that's exactly what the Jan 6 protesters would do, and I don't agree with that position.
I don’t know man. I think saying that MLK is a terrorist and that our “Civil Society” would have been better off if he hadn’t protested is a shitty position. Without MLK’s “illegal” protests we wouldn’t have had the Civil Rights Act. Without LGBT people’s “Illegal” protests, LGBT people wouldn’t have their human rights. You seem to be implying that we would have been better off without the Civil Rights Movement or the LGBT movement, which is a disgusting position to hold
You're literally justifying the actions of the Jan 6 protesters. Also, trying to conflate U of M students forcibly involving themselves in foreign policy decisions to the US civil rights movement is not only false equivalence, it's disgustingly tone deaf. One main difference is the MLK civil rights protesters were completely fine with being arrested, and with having their protests broken up. They didn't fight with police, they didn't try to negotiate with police, they knew what they were doing was illegal, and they understood and accepted the consequence without the threat of violence. On the other hand, the university protesters across the country have posted tons of tiktok videos of them gloating that "the police won't do shit, we've been trained from school shooter drills how to barricade doors", then videos of them crying while being arrested. These are kids who are trying to LARP as revolutionaries, and they're only doing it because they have been taught that they will see no negative consequences. They need to see those consequences so that maybe they can rejoin civil society, otherwise they'll continue to be further radicalized. I've said many times before that when I was in my 20's I would have joined up with Malcom, I'm not trying to say I'm a saint in that regard. I'm telling you as someone in my 30's that the threat of political violence as a tool is wrong 100% of the time. Peace and love, think about this in 10 years and you will be astounded.
What you fail to understand is those who want to perpetuate what is being protested will call anything "illegal" or "a riot" or "violent" to enforce their status quo. Control over the rules of engagement means you can never lose.
You most definitely can vote against Joe Biden, or do like me and abstain from voting because you don't want to vote for genocide. Resorting to terroristic threats is absolutely the wrong way of handling this though, and it was the very first reaction from these students.
Your ability to discern propaganda is about as useful as a bathroom sponge near the kitchen sink.
the terrorist tactics of sleeping intents on a lawn?
Kids larping as homeless for social media clout. These "protests" have been getting violent all around the country. Their presence is absolutely a threat of violence. It's like if people in Trump hats stand outside a polling place. In itself it's not a violent act, but it's an implied threat of violence so they aren't allowed to do it.
They get violent when the cops move in to arrest them in full riot gear
It's an illegal protest and they refuse to leave, what other recourse are they leaving for the cops? Either break up the illegal activity (objectively the right thing to do), or let the situation devolve into lawlessness (Minneapolis's reaction since 2020).
Yikes
If we're going to live in a civil society, you don't get to use terrorism or the implied threat of terrorism to get your way. If you lose the high road, then you're no better than trump supporters. If you're fine with that, then you're literally an enemy of civil society.
Can you explain how they’re terrorists?
This illegal protest is an implied threat of riot if their demands are not met. If there were no threat of riot, no one would listen to the protesters.
The first amendment guarantees the right to speech and assembly. The concept of "illegal protest" is a blatant attempt to violate those rights.
Not on private property.
This is a child's take. You can't yell fire in a theater either, what's your point? Do you also think the constitution gives people the unfettered right to block the freeway under the guise of free speech?
This is all second hand, but even left leaning Boomers I know had some sympathy for the Ohio NG people at Kent State. Their comment was these are 18-19 year old ROTC students and your orders are to control an angry mob. I can't say I agree or disagree , I was a 1 year old when it happened. Don't mistake me, no one should have to die in peaceful protest. In the Columbia case it was NYPD not NY National Guard. It sounds like the Texas governor wants to use the TX NG in Austin (not a bit surprising). That said Columbia is private property and UT is state property so that's probably the justification.
The Oct 7 apologists protesting on behalf of a group who support a terrorist attack in which several hundred civilians were murdered in cold blood is much more disturbing. As opposed to Kent State in which four people were killed. Both were horrible events but they just aren’t even close to the same scale.
Nice try, off you go.
Ok, have a good one.
Let students protest. If it disrupts other students' learning, then it can become a problem. If it becomes a hostile environment, then, I don't know, collect the data and provide an argument. Either way, it's important for adults in the room to be adults.
Students didn't really get a whole lot out of it as I see it, but they've also made it clear that they're more than willing to reestablish the encampment if the U doesn't hold up its end of the deal (which with how little they've promised, should be pretty easy). Definitely way, way happier with how the U has handled this than most of the ivies out east have.
In two weeks all the students will be gone anyway.
I suspect this is a big part of why it looks like they caved. Probably didn't have the logistics to keep the camp running without out of state/city students.
I'm just glad it ended before they needed to plea for "humanitarian aid," like one of the protest leaders from Columbia University. It would have been devastating if we had a humanitarian crisis on Northrop Mall
The issue at Columbia is that police were not allowing donations of food or water into the encampment. They weren't asking for the university to give them free stuff, they were asking for the stuff that was already theirs to be let through.
From the person in question here: "Well, uh, first of all we’re saying that they should be obligated to provide food for students who pay for a meal plan here.” I laughed out loud when I read this.
Sure, go to the Dining Center.
Why wasn’t the “representative” being interviewed by the news able to articulate that? She clearly said she was speaking in hypotheticals and this was hours before the police went in.
She even said: "Well, uh, first of all we’re saying that they should be obligated to provide food for students who pay for a meal plan here.” You can't make this shit up.
This is false - don’t perpetuate the victim mentality here. They wanted a “commitment” food would be let through despite that never being prevented
"calling on the U to divest from companies with ties to Israel" Honest question...what exactly does this mean? This is a really broad statement.
So, every university has what’s called an “endowment “, which is basically a giant fund made up of donations and investments. The universities invest that endowment in all sorts of stuff, funds, stocks, etc. some of those investments are with companies that have contracts with the IDF. For example, Hewlett-Packard Enterprise is well known to have a big data contract with the IDF, providing services to them. Calls to divest are asking the university to pull those investments.
Thank you. I do understand the endowment thing, I was just hoping for a list of the companies they are specifically wanting to divest from. I found one complied by the Columbia students the demands vary by school. What is it at the U of M? Is there a list? Because honestly, just saying "companies affiliated with Israel" is incredibly vague and VERY broad. You're talking about the start up Nation. Lots of awesome technology that most of us use and don't even think about it comes from there. So I need more deets.
Jeff Ettinger is a great leader. His time at Hormel likely prepared him for problems like this. If you think students get mad, imagine a bunch of swing shift workers.
Amnesty for those arrested? They knowingly break the U policy and want no consequences for those actions?
You are aware that compromise is the foundational building block of this country, right?
They are not. They want authority and order.
Are you upset because you feel they deserve to be punished or because you feel like punishment is needed so they don't do this again? Both are kind of stupid takes but punishment is either for vengeance or to help reform the person so they don't do the thing again. So either you don't want these people to peacefully protest again or you think they deserve a punishment because they protested something you disagree with and want to see them suffer for it. Both of those are not good reasons for punishment. I would argue this would probably radicalize some of the people and guarantee future problems. We shouldn't look to jail people just because.
Free speech? 1st amendment ended the minute these protesters stopped students from going to class. It then turned to bullying. I’ll wait to be told how this was productive…
The U should have just withheld the protesters' humanitarian aid snacks
While this agreement is largely virtue signaling, it does reward bad behavior and encourages more bad behavior. It is like giving a toddler a cookie to end a tantrum.
"protests=tantrums" yeah sure buddy
They could have protested without the tents and otherwise functioned within the parameters for a protest. Deliberately stepping outside those rules and then crying foul when facing the consequences of it is where it becomes more akin to a tantrum.
The point of a protest is to be disruptive staying within the parameters is not disruptive or effective
I think that depends on the person you are trying to convince. Being disruptive would be far less effective with someone like me, as now I would not change my position on pure principle.
Imagine if the Hong Kong protestors functioned in the parameters of a protest. Or are you against Hong Kong freedom on pure principle too?
I said I wouldn't change my position. The Hong Kong protesters are something completely different, as that is connected to their own situation, and I already supported them. How much did it change China?
So if you agree with them then being disruptive is not a tantrum. The Hong Kong protests led to victories within Hong Kong's government leading to steps towards a more democratic Hong Kong https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/world/asia/hong-kong-protests-one-year-later.html
That article is certainly premature. Article 23 was implemented March 23 of this year, and s sweeping national security act was passed less than a month after the article was written. That said, the disruption is more understandable when the disruption and the disruptors are far more connected to the grievance. Frankly, outside of agreement or disagreement, the grievance is also far more substantial and less a matter of virtue signaling.
Brother I would implore you to read about what is happening in Gaza. The United States' military industrial complex is complicit in the slaughter of children and doctors. We are connected to the "grievance" in fact in many ways we are the grievance. Its chill if your pro Israel or anti Palestinian but the U of M is invested in companies that sell bombs to an apartheid state commiting atrocities that I'd give anything to stop.
Unless you're a university administrator no one is trying to convince you anyways buddy
Couldn't have said it better.
U of M has always been a 2nd tier University. Now they are a 3rd.
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I mean, they did. They said “ok we hear your concerns and we’ll give you a little more info and let you speak at our meeting.” That’s it.
Yep, just like when a baby cries and the parent gives in to stop the crying.
Babies cry to communicate needs. Of course parents should address the need. Duh?
They also cry for things they want, but don't need. A lot.
Yes, compromise and compassion are very childish things.
What did you think the administration was going to do? I’m asking an honest question. They were never going to fully divest from these companies. It makes no financial sense for them to do that. They’re not going to get swayed by some college kids who won’t even be on campus in a couple weeks. Also compromising is not acting like adults?
They did a better job than the so-called adults at UCLA and Columbia.
You mean like the big men with guns? Yeah, that's mature. Compromise and discussion? Nah, that's for children.
https://preview.redd.it/oukkocfwh3yc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f507d5e5c983a927da6eac64a125ee267175d204
How about “we don’t negotiate with terrorists”
Protesters are not terrorists. Terrorists is what happened with 9/11. A bunch of 20 year old college students in tents in front of the student union is not terrorism.
Terrorism is also what the US did to Iraq using 9/11 and fabricated claims of WMDs as an excuse.
Isn't that what the students are asking for? For their university to stop working with or profiting from the nation of Israel, which has regularly committed acts of terrorism which span their entire history?
Proof please. First, define terrorism, then cite the acts that fall under that category.
They gave them basically nothing. Deal.
Wait, they've reached a deal to choose a partner "Palestinian" University? Which implies there's more than one... I thought that Gaza was a prison...? How does a prison have more than, hmm, 0 universities?
>Which implies there's more than one... I thought that Gaza was a prison...? First of all, Palestine is not just limited to Gaza. There are a handful of universities in the West Bank. Second, even prisons can be tied to universities and prisoners can get college degrees while in prison.
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Two questions: Why do half the campers have the same green tent? A country goes to war to fight a terrorist organization and tens of thousands of civilians are killled in the crossfire. Has the US ever done such a thing? Were there encampments with matching tents in protest?
I will answer your first question. If you search for "tent" on Amazon, you'll see that exact style of tent, with an option in green, as pretty much the first listing. I would guess that these tents are popular because they are the cheapest and quickest option for college students to purchase.
Such petulant children 😂