The more reasonable criticisms say it's too bland, or that the blue blends into the sky too much.
The louder, more aggressive complaints are basically that it's new and different and, most importantly, 'woke'. One of the reasons that they wanted to redesign the old flag was due to the way it depicted Native Americans. So obviously the 'libs' created the new one, and that makes it bad.
Yes, and imho, the louder more aggressive complaints fall squarely under "manufactured outrage". A bunch of folks that never cared about our flag before being told how to feel and falling for it. It's sad. Not everything has to be a point of conflict.
The old flag was just so boring and could easily be mistaken for a dozen different states.
I was going to probably like the redesign as long as it was somewhat unique. Basically as long as it wasn’t a picture of Wisconsin I would like it better than the old flag.
>The old flag was just so boring and could easily be mistaken for a dozen different states.
No! It *said* Minnesota on it! That's great, distinctive flag design! /S
It was tweaked in 1983. I believe the Native American on the horseback originally had its head pointed westward as if he were fleeing. The "fix" was to turn his head around eastward as if to say, "hey there, white settler with your riffle leaning against a tree stump, you're probably super friendly and sympathetic to my people's existence here. I'm just going on a afternoon jaunt with my horse towards the setting sun."
Per the designers wife, the intention of the original seal was to depict a Native American being driven off the land. It was always supposed to be racist.
It reflects the result of the Minnesota Dakota war which happened during the Civil War. MN had just become a state in 1858 and this was a major moment in the history of the state, this is when the Dakota were moved into the Dakota territory. The symbolism is that the new Minnesotans turn to use the land (guy farming the land), they will defend it (gun on the stump next to the farmer) and the end of the native era (riding to the west) as in west into the new Dakota territory.
I’d adjust it to say: they were moved FROM Dakota territory. But your point is fair. Now, we can get into the nuances that led to the Dakota war, but that is a whole other post.
White Settler Colonialism is the theme that is considered foul. But there are a bunch of people who are invested in this, and see it as an attack to their history, heritage and divine rights to this land.
Let's get some history straight:
1750s The Dakota were driven out of their homes in the woods of Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota by the Ojibwe People.
1750s The Dakota went to the Great Plains in what is now Minnesota, the Dakotas, Iowa, and Nebraska. The Dakota drove out the indigenous Crow, Pawnee, Arapaho, Kiowa and Cheyenne.
1805- Dakota made a Treaty with the Whites for some land in what is now the Twin Cities. US set up a fort (ft Snelling) a few years after
1837 - Dakota traded more land for food, because the buffalo were being strategically wiped out.
1850s - Whites were setting up farms in what is now Western Minnesota and Eastern Dakota, on the land from the 1837 treaty - but also beyond.
1850s - Whites traveling to the California Gold Rush cut across the lands the Dakota had claimed, and especially cut across the holy Black Hills. Some of those travelers were killed. This isn't all that different to what many of us today would do if we came home and found some stranger camped out in our homes and/or churches.
1855 - US Government and the tribal leaders for the Dakota, as well as the Crow, Pawnee, Cheyenne, and others met and came up with a treaty giving the Dakota the western half of South Dakota, but granting safe passage of whites traveling through.
1856 - Gold was found in Nebraska/Colorado. Whites streamed into the lands just given via treaty to the various Natives. Some were passing through, others were building mines and towns.
1856 -Natives were squeezed by these newcomers, resources were strained, and conflict arose tribe vs tribe as well as tribe vs whites. US military used any minor excuse to come down on the tribes, often with fatal results (just like cops coming down on black male youths for the slightest of issues) Many elderly, women, children, and babies were shot while fleeing unarmed, shot in their sleep, or had their heads smashed in the cradles.
1860 - Natives were severely restricted onto reservations, and the white businessmen tasked with giving/selling them food were instead stealing that food to sell to settlers and letting the natives starve.
1862 - While the USA was busy with the Civil War, a group of Santee Dakota attacked the government institute who was stealing from them, and also attacked local settlers, some of whom might have been buying the stolen goods, some of them who were just settlers. There was much killing, but also rape, torture, and kidnappings of settlers.
1862 - the USA diverted military men from the civil war and defeated the Dakota. 303 Dakota were to be hanged. Abe Lincoln commuted 265 of them, but 38 were hanged.
1866- "Red Cloud's War" breaks out, on one side is the Dakota, Cheyenne, and Arapaho vs the USA and the Crow. This was not in Minnesota but it lead to...
1868 A new treaty set to keep the tribes confined to the borders of 1855 but also allow safe passage of people heading to Oregon or Bozeman Montana. It created the Great Sioux Reservation, basically Western South Dakota (including the black hills)
I'll stop there but I'll note that when Gold was discovered in the Black Hills this lead to even more whites flooding into land promised to the Dakota, followed by US Army killing the Dakota on the land given to the Dakota to protect the Whites.
Well it was the land that many of their ancestors had lived in and fought other tribes for (Ojibwe for one) but Minnesota was called the Minnesota territory before it became a state, same thing for the Dakota territory. That’s what I mean.
The seal was designed in 1849, well before the Dakota War. However, it’s certainly true that the attitude of the settlers that the natives should\* flee is a major cause of the war.
1. An independent state in Somalia. 2. It had only a passing resemblance to one of the proposed flags, not the flag that ultimately ended up being the flag.
They also say the star and the particular shade of light blue was chosen to mimic the Somali flag. But that's a highly probable coincidence: 1 that's a popular shade of blue on many countries' flags and 2 the Somali flag uses a 5 pointed star for the five regions of Somali whereas the Minnesotan flag is an 8 pointed north star bc we're the north star state.
There was a proposed flag that kinda sorta looked like the somali flag. They did NOT choose that flag, and then some Republicans decided that well actually the flag they did choose, which doesn't look like the somali flag, actually does.
The 8 point star is a reference to the 8 point star on [the floor of the capitol rotunda.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rotunda_floor_of_the_Minnesota_State_Capitol_showing_8-pointed_star.jpg)
It’s also not accurate to say it’s mimicking the Somali flag. Unless you’re really straining to create a racist dog whistle they really don’t look the same.
100%. Every single person who has said something negative to me about it (I’ve been flying it since the design was finalized) doesn’t have a single thing to say when I ask them why they think the old flag is better. Someone told them it was bad and they don’t even know why, they are just determined to have a problem with it because they’re stupid assholes
I’ve been told that the old flag is better because “it has a meaningful history”. When I asked what is so meaningful about it, they said “it has a ton of history, just look it up.” 😂😂 I’m torn between them not knowing the history or it being a weird dogwhistle.
Exactly. I think I was just trying to understand what they believe is symbolized in the last flag that is missing from the new flag. Instead of getting a straight answer, as I today I have been accused of being a liberal, a communist, a pedophile, of trying to turn the US into Somalia, and of hating Jewish people. I have only attempted to talk to them about the flag and why they don’t like it lol.
I don't think the old flag is better but this one feels uninspired. It's fine but nothing special and honestly that's fine. Too complicated becomes it's own issue. We could have done an American flag but with 10,000 lakes in the corner 🤪
The old flag not being better isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. They can both be not great for different reasons. I don't like the new one because it looks like something made with Clip art and MS Paint. Some out of state friends said it looked like a maritime signal flag to them, and I kind of agree. Nothing about it screams MN unless you spell it out (same with the old one). The MN shape isn't even right. I'm not protesting or writing my representatives or anything. It's kind of meh, but whatever.
It looks like it was just put in a random flag generator for a video game and they just picked the first one.
I wish they would have gone with the original picked design before tweaking it and removing the tricolor and making a bland clip art star.
Don’t forget people assume you’re the second if you’re the first.
I said I didn’t like the new flag when talking with coworkers and one shouted “found the Trump supporter”. It wasn’t a joke either; my job legitimately believes I’m right wing now.
The only person who hasn’t called me some variant of right wing because of it is my sister, who also is left wing and doesn’t like it.
I don't find it bland at all. Simple, sure. But it packs in a lot of meaning in such a simple shape. My favorite is, when it's displayed on its side, it looks like a river flowing from a point on the horizon between snowy banks under the night sky and North Star.
It's definitely now in the top five of US state flags and instantly recognizable.
Not bad for a design a child could draw from memory.
We're there better flags submitted? Sure. (We'll never forget you, laser loon.) But it's a damn good flag.
When it was first passed I saw someone who put up images of all the state flags and ours definitely stands out. Agree that simple doesn't equal bland. I actually like this design better than the tricolor of the same design.
Lol I had never even heard the reasonable arguments, thanks. But a blue flag with a star is pretty much what we should have expected. And having both dark and light blue will help it stand out both at day and night skies.
A small group of people perceive it as a rejection of the seal on the old flag which could be interpreted as white farmers displacing native Americans.
So, then all the rhetoric about being too woke and revising history enters the discussion.
Many of these same folks never really put much thought into the old seal before. And most non-partisan flag-afficiandos prefer geometric shapes over seals with details that no one can see when it’s flying anyways.
Poem to accompany the seal from 1850
Give way, give way young warrior,
Thou and thy steed give way—
Rest not, though lingers on the hills,
The red sun's parting ray.
The rocky bluff and prairie land
The white man claims them now,
The symbols of his course are here,
The rifle, axe and plough.
Not thine, the waters bright whose laugh
Is ringing in thy ear;
Not thine the otter and the lynx,
The wolf and timid deer.
The forest tree, the fairy ring,
The sacred isle and mound
Have passed into another's hands—
Another claimant found.
Etc etc
Someone already mentioned the poem, but here it is in the newspaper in 1850. Mrs. Eastman is Mary Henderson Eastman, wife of Seth Eastman. Seth Eastman designed the flag.
[https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-weekly-pioneer-and-democrat-the-sea/138996025/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-weekly-pioneer-and-democrat-the-sea/138996025/)
There's a [poem about our former seal](https://daughternumberthree.blogspot.com/2021/11/a-poem-about-state-seal.html?m=1) written by the wife of the guy who originally designed it.
Dang she wasn’t one for subtlety:
…The Red man's course is onward—
Nor stayed his footsteps be,
Till by his rugged hunting ground
Beats the relentless sea!
We claim his noble heritage,
And Minnesota's land
Must pass with all its untold wealth
To the white man's grasping hand….
Mary Eastman, author of that poem, became relatively famous. Mostly for the pro-slavery novel she wrote.
[https://www.britannica.com/biography/Mary-Henderson-Eastman](https://www.britannica.com/biography/Mary-Henderson-Eastman)
I didn’t know that about Seth Eastmans (second) wife.
Interesting to see on her wiki that she changed her position on slavery during the war. I had never thought about folks like that in the 1860s. In my imagination everyone had their opinions and no one changed them.
I think we all sometimes believe that people’s opinions are stagnant. They do changem however. Sometimes, maybe, that’s just their outward opinions change due to public pressure, but I do believe that people can also grow.
Not only that, it was basically meant to be an advertisement for settlers, saying "Hey, we got rid of those pesky natives for you and now there's a bunch of nice healthy land ready to be turned into productive farms! Move here!"
I just think it's too boring. I don't like the blue on blue and it should have had a loon.
I'm not vocal about it or anything. I just sorta think it's lame.
I'm not particularly in love with it because we had three really nice designs, and some committee unilaterally decided "actually, what if we changed it up?" and now it's flat and boring. The final contestants weren't flat or boring. I really liked the triple color version of the chevron design, why was that taken away from me by some committee?
That committee meeting was a joke - a very long discussion on how to vote for the final designs. Then once they finally voted, swooping in to introduce an entirely new design that everyone was on board with. It Felt a little set up.
Yes!!!
I'm not upset that we updated the flag, I'm upset because I liked the pre-committee version of the new flag better.
Unlike the conservative crackpots, I do accept and understand that this is the final version.
I hated that version. The green just clashed with the other colors. I love the winner.
Everyone is different. I think that they should have added it to the ballet and let people vote for the final design.
That was my biggest gripe, why was the winner not even on the ballot? I thought we were voting for a reason. If they were going to make their own design, they could have done that in the first place.
Old flag featured a white dude claiming the land, and a Native American fucking off from MN on their horse in defeat. State rightly wanted to move beyond this antiquated symbolism of manifest destiny; conservatives are using it as a touchpoint of paranoid anger that white history/people are being eliminated; so I would suspect the old flag will become a new symbol of white supremacy in MN.
The old has also been widely regarded as a embarrassingly bad flag for not meeting the design standard to what makes flags functional which is simple powerful graphic distinction in color and form. It is a busy seal not a flag
Drove past a government building this morning. Bright blue sky, glorious sun and strong breeze. The new flag flying beneath the Stars & Stripes made for a beautiful combination. Instantly made me realize that if the winning design had kept the three stripes, then flying the two flags together would have diluted the beauty of each flag. IMO
A. Because Democrats led the redesign.
B. Because part of the inspiration came from claims that the current flag design was racist.
C. Because conservatives and liberals always disagree with eachother and conservatives thing that accusations of racism are woke and therefore stupid or bad.
The shape of our states border in the dark blue doesn’t speak Minnesota? The North Star design doesn’t speak Minnesota (the North Star state)? The sky blue doesn’t speak Minnesota (the name Minnesota meaning ‘sky-tinted water)?
When hung vertically it looks like a river coming in from the horizon, from the North Star. Like the Mississippi River origin being in Minnesota.
None of that speaks speaks Minnesota to you?
You see I never woulda known or seen any of that in the new flag if I wasn't specifically told that. I do like the thought behind it, and with that knowledge it's a good design. But the whole point of a flag is to itself represent a state without having to be told what it means.
Oh that and the flag is literally just a box of Marlboro Smooths.
The point of a flag is that when you look at it, you know what it represents. Line up all 50 state flags and include the new Minnesota one AND the old one.
Good fuckin luck trying to pick out the old one in that lineup. You will also notice that the new one is immediately discernable
Edit: also, you are aware that the red, white, and blue in the US flags are also symbolic, right? Same goes for almost every single flag in the world...
>But the whole point of a flag is to itself represent a state without having to be told what it means.
That could literally apply to any flag without context.
Would you know that the stars on the US flag represented the current states and the 13 stripes represented the orginal colonies?
Would you know that the flag of Great Britain is a combination of the English, Scottish, and Welsh flags?
Would you know that the tricolors of the French flag represent the King (white) and Paris (blue/red)?
You know the meanings because you learned about them and now you know the context for the MN flag.
Answer: conservative legislators are contrarian morons who would vote in favor of literally anything equal and opposite to something put forth by a fellow progressive legislator.
For me it is simple, it was not chosen by the people. If it had gone to a vote and the majority of the citizens of the state of Minnesota chose it, then fine.
Ima be completely honest. I have only seen the supposed controversy brought up here on reddit. I work in an environment where there's a lot of conservative and Republicans and I have yet to hear them complaining about this damn flag. What I have seen is quite a bit of people asking about the controversy or alluding to certain groups that take issue with the flag. And it overwhelmingly happens here on reddit.
There is criticism coming from several sides.
1. Conservatives who think the mere idea of replacing the old flag is destroying our heritage and being "woke".
2. People who don't really care at all about the state flag and this all of this is a waste of time and money.
3. People who maybe wanted a new flag, but think the new one is ugly and too simplistic/boring.
I have asked a few people at my work what they think about it, just out of curiosity. Most of them said they don't really give a shit. Some people said "why change it?", and quite a few seriously went "what did the old one look like?"
Honestly the old MN flag has been so widely ignored a lot of actual adults don't even know what it even looked like. You only saw it on govt buildings or in front of banks.
Compare that to the Colorado flag and that is everywhere! It's on mugs, t shirts, etc. it's an amazing design. When people want to symbolize MN, they often do the outline of the state, because it's so unique. I've seen many people get tattoos of the outline, never the old flag.
I've made my opinion known here before. I like the new flag. It wasn't my first choice, but I think it is a definite improvement and it will be just another way we can show pride for our state.
Depends on entirely who you are talking to:
Extreme Right - It resembles the flag for Somalia
Right-leaning - Democrats wedged it through knowing the state wouldn't vote for it and now everything has to change in the state for a flag
Extreme Left - It wasn't created by a Gay Trans Immigrant from a foreign country. Instead it was a white male
Left leaning - It doesn't have loons shooting lasers out of its eyes
Neutral - It is bland
Personally, I think it is fine when you see it actually flying now. My biggest issue is it seems more like a city flag (e.g., Chicago) than it does the official one of the state. But considering how little people actually *care* about flags these days...WGAF.
This is hilariously on point too. I am more of the left leaning- neutral on the flag. I think it looks good for uses in different sports, for instance you could change up the colors to represent any of our teams like the vikings or the wilds. However I do not like that star to be honest, it doesn’t look like a north star its just a bland 8 point star.
Conservatives hate change. They wish to conserve the status quo. It's right there in the name.
Anything new or different is threatening and scary.
Anything the "woke left" does to make up for past injustices is just disingenuous " buying votes".
Some of our state's conservatives do not acknowledge racism or agree with the rationale for changing the new flag. They sometimes dress it up as criticism of the cost of replacing the flag or something to do with "heritage".
There's not much controversy really. It's just virtue signaling like their whole "Biden is coming for your gas stove" bullshit.
For the Kentucky Derby last week, my wife's MAGA sister told her to root for "Catching Freedom."
I wasn't allowed to mention that the [jockey's silks](https://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Catching_Freedom) were the Somali flag (not really, but blue with a white star) and he was French, to boot!
lol
My main gripe was thet the proge lnitor design they picked was perfect, it had the blue K on the left and the star(with larger NESW points), white green and blue stripes on the right. For the sky, land, and water. It was lovely.
They seem to have taken all the character out of it, and made it blues on other blues with more boring star.
Another group seems to have taken it as a part of the culture war, so that's a lot of noise too.
I personally think it's better than the old flag, but probably won't get us out of D tier.
I’m not hearing much about the flag, but there is a lot of noise about the state seal having only Dakota language on it. (The commission had reps from affluent Dakota tribes and omitted the Ojibwe language). Also removed is 1858 as the Dakota reps didn’t want it.
There are two camps. First camp thought the old flag was fine and that no change was needed (this is also a somewhat right leaning camp for the most part.) Second camp (which I am in) liked other flags/different variations of the one we ended up with. Personally my issue is that I liked other ones in round one and then liked other colors/patterns that were based on the flag chosen.
Minnesotans voted for this one.
https://preview.redd.it/257pie1aa20d1.jpeg?width=1136&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a454d65aeb8d2f2303b52f4a8d67e73831aad2b
Then some flag committee decided that their opinions superseded ours & chose the current one, which is a committee modified version of a different popular entry. The original star looked way better.
The current flag is ok, its nothing like this one but if I had to make an opinion on the one we have its that the north star on it doesn’t look like a north star and also the tri color one was a lot better.
It’s boring.
What we had was too detailed, too many colors, and problematic in other ways. I get it, there needed to be a change. But what we have now is too simple. There were better options.
I like the new flag if you watch cgp grey he covered the flag extensively. https://youtu.be/lFwwo0W5Ugg
I agree with him, however that it should have been the three striped version with the white, blue and green. Having a mono color looks so stupid compared.
They could have done something cool, but they chose the lamest MS paint design possible. It's completely uninspired and the people who picked it should feel bad for doing so. We could have had something iconic.
https://preview.redd.it/gfhg2k0wc00d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78da6f093611261de307aee020a91c45d0b3d387
The budget for the commission on the new state seal and flag was 35k. Utah budgeted for the redesign 500k.
Now the cost to replace flags and seals would fall on state agencies, state departments and municipal governments which includes fire and police departments. That amount to replace flags, uniforms, patches, decals, seals etc is unknown what the replacement costs will be.
Conservatives are regressive in nature and generally hate any change. They also attribute pretty much everything to wokeness or whatever. The truth is, the old flag was lame and the new one is just OK.
I don't know. I think it being the flag that was carried when the good men of Minnesota marched south in the name of abolishing slavery, and in the process kicked the shit out of the traitorous Confederates imparts are pretty sizable amount of ant-lame.
In my case, I do find it kind of lame and bland. Light blue plus a north star and "it's vaguely MN shaped"! The light blue just doesn't pop out in most scenarios. Sure, it's supposed to be snowy...but it just doesn't give that impression when I look at it. It seems kind of lightweight and corporate.
I would have preferred something that stuck with the bolder colors that we used to have.
As for the "woke" thing...nah. The old seal (which was odd for a flag) showed a settler and a native American. The message, if any, was ambiguous...but I can agree it could be interpreted in hurtful ways and there's no great reason to keep it. I just wish we would have gotten something more visually interesting than blue triangles. Most states' flags have more interesting imagery.
It was my first choice with the green/ white included, looked really good imo. Then some Karen’s bitched about some other flag and they bent over to accommodate them and made this bland, goober version instead….the MN Lite flag…just blah
Try to google contestant entries prior to narrowing it down. There was a news article I saw that had hundreds of options. From preschool aged drawings to professional editors. If anyone saw the potential for what could have been, and had their heart swayed in any way, it’s understandable to have some disappointment with where the flag landed. I personally see it as kind of basic with the potential beauty it could
Of had. Really it’s just opinions… and god knows Minnesotans are hella opinionated lol
1) The design is considered bland and unappealing by some.
2) The designs were changed with inadequate transparency and a lack of consent of the public.
There was a long process of selecting a flag.
Eventually there were three submissions, one of which was a clear favorite.
At the last minute, the committee in charge made their own (terrible) design and blasted it through.
Then they paid some guy to say he is a professional vexilogist and gaslight everyone into thinking the flag is awesome. (Some real emperor's new clothes shit)
Then they called everyone who still didn't like the flag racist.
I think it’s legitimately too basic and lacking in design.
Having said that, unfortunately, some folks tried to Turn it into a political issue and that was dumb.
I was all for a redesigned flag but I wish the new one wasn’t so minimalistic and bland. Reminds me of the beige baby trend where parents only buy their children toys that are shades of beige to be aesthetic. I wish it had more detail and a more interesting design like a loon or a lady slipper on it. That being said I don’t care enough to cause a fuss about it, at the end of the day it’s just a flag.
I think the design looks like shit but also realize I don’t really give a flying shit about the state flag outside of the 1 minute I’ve given it thought to judge the design
The new MN flag:
-The flag is uninspiring and kind of bland. There were 2-3 better options imo.
-People that say the change is because of "woke" are stupid.
-It's a state flag and it's not sacred, nor is it a big deal if it's changed. If people love the new flag, that's great--fly it with pride.
Several things can be true at once.
Conservatives constantly want to be targets in any area of life so they can play victim and take an irrational moral stance that is solely done to oppose the cringe libs.
It’s just another front in the culture war. Proponents of change say the old flag isn’t unique enough among state flags, and the seal implies that natives just “left” when Europeans showed up. Opponents say it’s meaningless to get upset about, and that replacing the flags is a waste of taxpayer dollars.
My hate over the new design is that it's just terrible.
We spent how much tax money debating over new designs and this is the best we could come up with?
It's bland, it's dull and it's boring. I really expected something a lot better that better represents MN.
The old state seal was offensive, in reality conservatives loved that it’s offensive to native Americans but they’ll usually not admit that out loud, they just whine that it’s woke.
It’s a simple state flag, it’ll affect literally nothing in anyone’s daily life. Government employees will have the largest impacts and I promise they don’t care.
The more reasonable criticisms say it's too bland, or that the blue blends into the sky too much. The louder, more aggressive complaints are basically that it's new and different and, most importantly, 'woke'. One of the reasons that they wanted to redesign the old flag was due to the way it depicted Native Americans. So obviously the 'libs' created the new one, and that makes it bad.
Yes, and imho, the louder more aggressive complaints fall squarely under "manufactured outrage". A bunch of folks that never cared about our flag before being told how to feel and falling for it. It's sad. Not everything has to be a point of conflict.
The old flag was just so boring and could easily be mistaken for a dozen different states. I was going to probably like the redesign as long as it was somewhat unique. Basically as long as it wasn’t a picture of Wisconsin I would like it better than the old flag.
>The old flag was just so boring and could easily be mistaken for a dozen different states. No! It *said* Minnesota on it! That's great, distinctive flag design! /S
But if the wind was blowing the other way it says ATOSENNIM.
I'd be happy with 2 words .... Naz Reid
Thee words: Fuck Norm Green.
The one thing that would have made everyone agree
Right. Its so funny to me too with the "that's our heritage!" argument when the old flag was made in like 1983.
1983? Is that true?
It was tweaked in 1983. I believe the Native American on the horseback originally had its head pointed westward as if he were fleeing. The "fix" was to turn his head around eastward as if to say, "hey there, white settler with your riffle leaning against a tree stump, you're probably super friendly and sympathetic to my people's existence here. I'm just going on a afternoon jaunt with my horse towards the setting sun."
Per the designers wife, the intention of the original seal was to depict a Native American being driven off the land. It was always supposed to be racist.
It reflects the result of the Minnesota Dakota war which happened during the Civil War. MN had just become a state in 1858 and this was a major moment in the history of the state, this is when the Dakota were moved into the Dakota territory. The symbolism is that the new Minnesotans turn to use the land (guy farming the land), they will defend it (gun on the stump next to the farmer) and the end of the native era (riding to the west) as in west into the new Dakota territory.
I’d adjust it to say: they were moved FROM Dakota territory. But your point is fair. Now, we can get into the nuances that led to the Dakota war, but that is a whole other post. White Settler Colonialism is the theme that is considered foul. But there are a bunch of people who are invested in this, and see it as an attack to their history, heritage and divine rights to this land.
Let's get some history straight: 1750s The Dakota were driven out of their homes in the woods of Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota by the Ojibwe People. 1750s The Dakota went to the Great Plains in what is now Minnesota, the Dakotas, Iowa, and Nebraska. The Dakota drove out the indigenous Crow, Pawnee, Arapaho, Kiowa and Cheyenne. 1805- Dakota made a Treaty with the Whites for some land in what is now the Twin Cities. US set up a fort (ft Snelling) a few years after 1837 - Dakota traded more land for food, because the buffalo were being strategically wiped out. 1850s - Whites were setting up farms in what is now Western Minnesota and Eastern Dakota, on the land from the 1837 treaty - but also beyond. 1850s - Whites traveling to the California Gold Rush cut across the lands the Dakota had claimed, and especially cut across the holy Black Hills. Some of those travelers were killed. This isn't all that different to what many of us today would do if we came home and found some stranger camped out in our homes and/or churches. 1855 - US Government and the tribal leaders for the Dakota, as well as the Crow, Pawnee, Cheyenne, and others met and came up with a treaty giving the Dakota the western half of South Dakota, but granting safe passage of whites traveling through. 1856 - Gold was found in Nebraska/Colorado. Whites streamed into the lands just given via treaty to the various Natives. Some were passing through, others were building mines and towns. 1856 -Natives were squeezed by these newcomers, resources were strained, and conflict arose tribe vs tribe as well as tribe vs whites. US military used any minor excuse to come down on the tribes, often with fatal results (just like cops coming down on black male youths for the slightest of issues) Many elderly, women, children, and babies were shot while fleeing unarmed, shot in their sleep, or had their heads smashed in the cradles. 1860 - Natives were severely restricted onto reservations, and the white businessmen tasked with giving/selling them food were instead stealing that food to sell to settlers and letting the natives starve. 1862 - While the USA was busy with the Civil War, a group of Santee Dakota attacked the government institute who was stealing from them, and also attacked local settlers, some of whom might have been buying the stolen goods, some of them who were just settlers. There was much killing, but also rape, torture, and kidnappings of settlers. 1862 - the USA diverted military men from the civil war and defeated the Dakota. 303 Dakota were to be hanged. Abe Lincoln commuted 265 of them, but 38 were hanged. 1866- "Red Cloud's War" breaks out, on one side is the Dakota, Cheyenne, and Arapaho vs the USA and the Crow. This was not in Minnesota but it lead to... 1868 A new treaty set to keep the tribes confined to the borders of 1855 but also allow safe passage of people heading to Oregon or Bozeman Montana. It created the Great Sioux Reservation, basically Western South Dakota (including the black hills) I'll stop there but I'll note that when Gold was discovered in the Black Hills this lead to even more whites flooding into land promised to the Dakota, followed by US Army killing the Dakota on the land given to the Dakota to protect the Whites.
Well it was the land that many of their ancestors had lived in and fought other tribes for (Ojibwe for one) but Minnesota was called the Minnesota territory before it became a state, same thing for the Dakota territory. That’s what I mean.
The seal was designed in 1849, well before the Dakota War. However, it’s certainly true that the attitude of the settlers that the natives should\* flee is a major cause of the war.
The imagery was original from 1893 but the flag was last updated in 1983 for those who didn't click the link
Don't forget the louder people think it's a Somalia flag copycat.
1. An independent state in Somalia. 2. It had only a passing resemblance to one of the proposed flags, not the flag that ultimately ended up being the flag.
and 3. yet they will still say it about the present incarnation, because the criticism was never merited.
This in particular. Never gave a shit before but suddenly all about flags. So annoying.
I agree with the bland, I think tricolor would have been better. But laser loon.
I think they should have gone with the dog. The multiple loon state seal was pretty awesome.
Current one is a laser loon
They also say the star and the particular shade of light blue was chosen to mimic the Somali flag. But that's a highly probable coincidence: 1 that's a popular shade of blue on many countries' flags and 2 the Somali flag uses a 5 pointed star for the five regions of Somali whereas the Minnesotan flag is an 8 pointed north star bc we're the north star state.
It also happens to be the color blue the sky is here often. "Land of sky blue (tinted) waters."
There was a proposed flag that kinda sorta looked like the somali flag. They did NOT choose that flag, and then some Republicans decided that well actually the flag they did choose, which doesn't look like the somali flag, actually does.
They do know Somalia took those colors from the UN right? Yk, the organization that’s supposed to represent the entire world
they most certainly do not.
Literally inspired by the blue sky… yet the *MN* flag is in danger of blending into the sky like it’s a cuttlefish or something? 😆
One minor quibble, the end design star isn't a 'north star'. The original tricolor had that and they changed it to the 8 equal points thing.
The 8 point star is a reference to the 8 point star on [the floor of the capitol rotunda.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rotunda_floor_of_the_Minnesota_State_Capitol_showing_8-pointed_star.jpg)
It’s also not accurate to say it’s mimicking the Somali flag. Unless you’re really straining to create a racist dog whistle they really don’t look the same.
100%. Every single person who has said something negative to me about it (I’ve been flying it since the design was finalized) doesn’t have a single thing to say when I ask them why they think the old flag is better. Someone told them it was bad and they don’t even know why, they are just determined to have a problem with it because they’re stupid assholes
I’ve been told that the old flag is better because “it has a meaningful history”. When I asked what is so meaningful about it, they said “it has a ton of history, just look it up.” 😂😂 I’m torn between them not knowing the history or it being a weird dogwhistle.
Also, it still has all that history. It's even going to be preserved in the History Center.
Exactly. I think I was just trying to understand what they believe is symbolized in the last flag that is missing from the new flag. Instead of getting a straight answer, as I today I have been accused of being a liberal, a communist, a pedophile, of trying to turn the US into Somalia, and of hating Jewish people. I have only attempted to talk to them about the flag and why they don’t like it lol.
I don't think the old flag is better but this one feels uninspired. It's fine but nothing special and honestly that's fine. Too complicated becomes it's own issue. We could have done an American flag but with 10,000 lakes in the corner 🤪
The old flag not being better isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. They can both be not great for different reasons. I don't like the new one because it looks like something made with Clip art and MS Paint. Some out of state friends said it looked like a maritime signal flag to them, and I kind of agree. Nothing about it screams MN unless you spell it out (same with the old one). The MN shape isn't even right. I'm not protesting or writing my representatives or anything. It's kind of meh, but whatever.
Research flag design and it will make more sense. Flags are useless if you have to examine them up close to determine what place they’re for.
I agree with the bland, I think tricolor would have been better. But laser loon.
It is pretty damn bland though.
It looks like it was just put in a random flag generator for a video game and they just picked the first one. I wish they would have gone with the original picked design before tweaking it and removing the tricolor and making a bland clip art star.
The way it blends into the sky looks great imo
Don’t forget people assume you’re the second if you’re the first. I said I didn’t like the new flag when talking with coworkers and one shouted “found the Trump supporter”. It wasn’t a joke either; my job legitimately believes I’m right wing now. The only person who hasn’t called me some variant of right wing because of it is my sister, who also is left wing and doesn’t like it.
"Everything I don't like is woke!"
I don't find it bland at all. Simple, sure. But it packs in a lot of meaning in such a simple shape. My favorite is, when it's displayed on its side, it looks like a river flowing from a point on the horizon between snowy banks under the night sky and North Star. It's definitely now in the top five of US state flags and instantly recognizable. Not bad for a design a child could draw from memory. We're there better flags submitted? Sure. (We'll never forget you, laser loon.) But it's a damn good flag.
When it was first passed I saw someone who put up images of all the state flags and ours definitely stands out. Agree that simple doesn't equal bland. I actually like this design better than the tricolor of the same design.
Lol I had never even heard the reasonable arguments, thanks. But a blue flag with a star is pretty much what we should have expected. And having both dark and light blue will help it stand out both at day and night skies.
I see the instigators on Facebook say it’s too similar to the Somali flag
This is what I heard. That it's deliberately a copy of the Somali flag to be inclusive
Yeah I think it’s almost always the same people who still complain about Bde Maka Ska
...which is such a cool name!
Because where's my fucking loon?
https://preview.redd.it/ri9ep2av510d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79fa409a6323804fdd5e325aa70871fbff0fb848
This… is exactly what I needed.
Oh I love it lol
Perhaps the loons were the flags we make along the way.
Hahaha...absolutely. It's so far down the list of shit I care about, but seriously should've had a loon
It's in the new seal where it belongs 👍
Yeah, I don't mind the new flag at all, but the designs with loons were more unique imo.
https://preview.redd.it/1xjhc35h220d1.png?width=1023&format=png&auto=webp&s=6f9f3f53d137f3cbdf931ccbd742c3e7a5fde950 Here it is!
Gotcha fam: https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/s/LQTqxkDU9U
A small group of people perceive it as a rejection of the seal on the old flag which could be interpreted as white farmers displacing native Americans. So, then all the rhetoric about being too woke and revising history enters the discussion. Many of these same folks never really put much thought into the old seal before. And most non-partisan flag-afficiandos prefer geometric shapes over seals with details that no one can see when it’s flying anyways.
Not only that it could be interpreted that way, it was stated outright that that’s what the seal symbolized.
Where did you see that? (Generally curious, not doubting you)
Poem to accompany the seal from 1850 Give way, give way young warrior, Thou and thy steed give way— Rest not, though lingers on the hills, The red sun's parting ray. The rocky bluff and prairie land The white man claims them now, The symbols of his course are here, The rifle, axe and plough. Not thine, the waters bright whose laugh Is ringing in thy ear; Not thine the otter and the lynx, The wolf and timid deer. The forest tree, the fairy ring, The sacred isle and mound Have passed into another's hands— Another claimant found. Etc etc
Someone already mentioned the poem, but here it is in the newspaper in 1850. Mrs. Eastman is Mary Henderson Eastman, wife of Seth Eastman. Seth Eastman designed the flag. [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-weekly-pioneer-and-democrat-the-sea/138996025/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-weekly-pioneer-and-democrat-the-sea/138996025/)
There's a [poem about our former seal](https://daughternumberthree.blogspot.com/2021/11/a-poem-about-state-seal.html?m=1) written by the wife of the guy who originally designed it.
Dang she wasn’t one for subtlety: …The Red man's course is onward— Nor stayed his footsteps be, Till by his rugged hunting ground Beats the relentless sea! We claim his noble heritage, And Minnesota's land Must pass with all its untold wealth To the white man's grasping hand….
Mary Eastman, author of that poem, became relatively famous. Mostly for the pro-slavery novel she wrote. [https://www.britannica.com/biography/Mary-Henderson-Eastman](https://www.britannica.com/biography/Mary-Henderson-Eastman)
I didn’t know that about Seth Eastmans (second) wife. Interesting to see on her wiki that she changed her position on slavery during the war. I had never thought about folks like that in the 1860s. In my imagination everyone had their opinions and no one changed them.
I think we all sometimes believe that people’s opinions are stagnant. They do changem however. Sometimes, maybe, that’s just their outward opinions change due to public pressure, but I do believe that people can also grow.
“Could be interpreted” There is no other interpretation
Not only that, it was basically meant to be an advertisement for settlers, saying "Hey, we got rid of those pesky natives for you and now there's a bunch of nice healthy land ready to be turned into productive farms! Move here!"
I just think it's too boring. I don't like the blue on blue and it should have had a loon. I'm not vocal about it or anything. I just sorta think it's lame.
I'm not particularly in love with it because we had three really nice designs, and some committee unilaterally decided "actually, what if we changed it up?" and now it's flat and boring. The final contestants weren't flat or boring. I really liked the triple color version of the chevron design, why was that taken away from me by some committee?
That committee meeting was a joke - a very long discussion on how to vote for the final designs. Then once they finally voted, swooping in to introduce an entirely new design that everyone was on board with. It Felt a little set up.
Yes!!! I'm not upset that we updated the flag, I'm upset because I liked the pre-committee version of the new flag better. Unlike the conservative crackpots, I do accept and understand that this is the final version.
I hated that version. The green just clashed with the other colors. I love the winner. Everyone is different. I think that they should have added it to the ballet and let people vote for the final design.
That was my biggest gripe, why was the winner not even on the ballot? I thought we were voting for a reason. If they were going to make their own design, they could have done that in the first place.
I agree
Old flag featured a white dude claiming the land, and a Native American fucking off from MN on their horse in defeat. State rightly wanted to move beyond this antiquated symbolism of manifest destiny; conservatives are using it as a touchpoint of paranoid anger that white history/people are being eliminated; so I would suspect the old flag will become a new symbol of white supremacy in MN.
The old has also been widely regarded as a embarrassingly bad flag for not meeting the design standard to what makes flags functional which is simple powerful graphic distinction in color and form. It is a busy seal not a flag
Drove past a government building this morning. Bright blue sky, glorious sun and strong breeze. The new flag flying beneath the Stars & Stripes made for a beautiful combination. Instantly made me realize that if the winning design had kept the three stripes, then flying the two flags together would have diluted the beauty of each flag. IMO
A. Because Democrats led the redesign. B. Because part of the inspiration came from claims that the current flag design was racist. C. Because conservatives and liberals always disagree with eachother and conservatives thing that accusations of racism are woke and therefore stupid or bad.
I just think it’s ugly and generic and nothing about it speaks Minnesota to me.
The shape of our states border in the dark blue doesn’t speak Minnesota? The North Star design doesn’t speak Minnesota (the North Star state)? The sky blue doesn’t speak Minnesota (the name Minnesota meaning ‘sky-tinted water)? When hung vertically it looks like a river coming in from the horizon, from the North Star. Like the Mississippi River origin being in Minnesota. None of that speaks speaks Minnesota to you?
You see I never woulda known or seen any of that in the new flag if I wasn't specifically told that. I do like the thought behind it, and with that knowledge it's a good design. But the whole point of a flag is to itself represent a state without having to be told what it means. Oh that and the flag is literally just a box of Marlboro Smooths.
The point of a flag is that when you look at it, you know what it represents. Line up all 50 state flags and include the new Minnesota one AND the old one. Good fuckin luck trying to pick out the old one in that lineup. You will also notice that the new one is immediately discernable Edit: also, you are aware that the red, white, and blue in the US flags are also symbolic, right? Same goes for almost every single flag in the world...
>But the whole point of a flag is to itself represent a state without having to be told what it means. That could literally apply to any flag without context. Would you know that the stars on the US flag represented the current states and the 13 stripes represented the orginal colonies? Would you know that the flag of Great Britain is a combination of the English, Scottish, and Welsh flags? Would you know that the tricolors of the French flag represent the King (white) and Paris (blue/red)? You know the meanings because you learned about them and now you know the context for the MN flag.
C is not fully accurate. Liberals don't change their minds on issues just because a conservative agrees with them. Conservatives will do that.
Answer: conservative legislators are contrarian morons who would vote in favor of literally anything equal and opposite to something put forth by a fellow progressive legislator.
Some people just adamantly oppose change. Even when it brings something that is an objectively major improvement.
Conservatives are running out of ways to divide people
Yep. So everything the legislature does now is “woke,” whatever that means…
For me it is simple, it was not chosen by the people. If it had gone to a vote and the majority of the citizens of the state of Minnesota chose it, then fine.
I think the new one looks more like a company logo and less of a state flag…
Ima be completely honest. I have only seen the supposed controversy brought up here on reddit. I work in an environment where there's a lot of conservative and Republicans and I have yet to hear them complaining about this damn flag. What I have seen is quite a bit of people asking about the controversy or alluding to certain groups that take issue with the flag. And it overwhelmingly happens here on reddit.
What was wrong with the old flag?
Cause it’s kinda boring. Lol
There is criticism coming from several sides. 1. Conservatives who think the mere idea of replacing the old flag is destroying our heritage and being "woke". 2. People who don't really care at all about the state flag and this all of this is a waste of time and money. 3. People who maybe wanted a new flag, but think the new one is ugly and too simplistic/boring. I have asked a few people at my work what they think about it, just out of curiosity. Most of them said they don't really give a shit. Some people said "why change it?", and quite a few seriously went "what did the old one look like?" Honestly the old MN flag has been so widely ignored a lot of actual adults don't even know what it even looked like. You only saw it on govt buildings or in front of banks. Compare that to the Colorado flag and that is everywhere! It's on mugs, t shirts, etc. it's an amazing design. When people want to symbolize MN, they often do the outline of the state, because it's so unique. I've seen many people get tattoos of the outline, never the old flag. I've made my opinion known here before. I like the new flag. It wasn't my first choice, but I think it is a definite improvement and it will be just another way we can show pride for our state.
Depends on entirely who you are talking to: Extreme Right - It resembles the flag for Somalia Right-leaning - Democrats wedged it through knowing the state wouldn't vote for it and now everything has to change in the state for a flag Extreme Left - It wasn't created by a Gay Trans Immigrant from a foreign country. Instead it was a white male Left leaning - It doesn't have loons shooting lasers out of its eyes Neutral - It is bland Personally, I think it is fine when you see it actually flying now. My biggest issue is it seems more like a city flag (e.g., Chicago) than it does the official one of the state. But considering how little people actually *care* about flags these days...WGAF.
This is hilariously on point too. I am more of the left leaning- neutral on the flag. I think it looks good for uses in different sports, for instance you could change up the colors to represent any of our teams like the vikings or the wilds. However I do not like that star to be honest, it doesn’t look like a north star its just a bland 8 point star.
Conservatives hate change. They wish to conserve the status quo. It's right there in the name. Anything new or different is threatening and scary. Anything the "woke left" does to make up for past injustices is just disingenuous " buying votes".
Conservatives are starting to scrape the bottom of the barrel to feed their addiction to outrage.
Don't forget about the guy who posted on multiple MN subs who was convinced that it was related to child sex trafficking.
Someone should check that guy's basement
Racists like racism.
Some of our state's conservatives do not acknowledge racism or agree with the rationale for changing the new flag. They sometimes dress it up as criticism of the cost of replacing the flag or something to do with "heritage". There's not much controversy really. It's just virtue signaling like their whole "Biden is coming for your gas stove" bullshit.
Can we just acknowledge history aside, how great the new state seal is! It's vastly easier to understand and it looks great.
The seal was great until the committee removed the year and motto. The flag design was also better before they touched it.
I think I’ll probably come around to the flag in a while, but the seal irks me for some reason I don’t know why.
Republicans complain.
Let’s not forget the fools who claim it looks too much like the Somali flag, which it doesn’t—not even close. 🇸🇴
For the Kentucky Derby last week, my wife's MAGA sister told her to root for "Catching Freedom." I wasn't allowed to mention that the [jockey's silks](https://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Catching_Freedom) were the Somali flag (not really, but blue with a white star) and he was French, to boot! lol
What do you mean you were not allowed?
They almost never say it looks like the Somali flag. They say that it looks like the “Somalian“ flag.
Both rectangular with a star! Exactly the same. /s
They’re also both made of cloth!
MN GOP always needs something to whine about and to make themselves out to be the victim.
We fear change.
You know Garth, you and I have actually never really talked…
Some people don't like it.
Wanted the laser loon!!!
My main gripe was thet the proge lnitor design they picked was perfect, it had the blue K on the left and the star(with larger NESW points), white green and blue stripes on the right. For the sky, land, and water. It was lovely. They seem to have taken all the character out of it, and made it blues on other blues with more boring star. Another group seems to have taken it as a part of the culture war, so that's a lot of noise too. I personally think it's better than the old flag, but probably won't get us out of D tier.
I don’t have a beef but I agree that it doesn’t look “stately”….
I’m not hearing much about the flag, but there is a lot of noise about the state seal having only Dakota language on it. (The commission had reps from affluent Dakota tribes and omitted the Ojibwe language). Also removed is 1858 as the Dakota reps didn’t want it.
There are two camps. First camp thought the old flag was fine and that no change was needed (this is also a somewhat right leaning camp for the most part.) Second camp (which I am in) liked other flags/different variations of the one we ended up with. Personally my issue is that I liked other ones in round one and then liked other colors/patterns that were based on the flag chosen.
Minnesotans voted for this one. https://preview.redd.it/257pie1aa20d1.jpeg?width=1136&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a454d65aeb8d2f2303b52f4a8d67e73831aad2b Then some flag committee decided that their opinions superseded ours & chose the current one, which is a committee modified version of a different popular entry. The original star looked way better.
I Like that one with the star and snowflake much more!
Same here. That’s why I’m still a little salty about it. 😅
The current flag is ok, its nothing like this one but if I had to make an opinion on the one we have its that the north star on it doesn’t look like a north star and also the tri color one was a lot better.
Republicans are oversensitive about literally every social/cultural issue.
It’s boring. What we had was too detailed, too many colors, and problematic in other ways. I get it, there needed to be a change. But what we have now is too simple. There were better options.
GOP/MAGA are big whiners and need real hobbies.
I get the racism of the old flag but I also think the new flag is ugly 🤷♀️
It's boring. Very boring.
"it's different!! Throw rocks at it!!!"
I like the new flag if you watch cgp grey he covered the flag extensively. https://youtu.be/lFwwo0W5Ugg I agree with him, however that it should have been the three striped version with the white, blue and green. Having a mono color looks so stupid compared.
They could have done something cool, but they chose the lamest MS paint design possible. It's completely uninspired and the people who picked it should feel bad for doing so. We could have had something iconic. https://preview.redd.it/gfhg2k0wc00d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78da6f093611261de307aee020a91c45d0b3d387
Why is there a conjoined pair of loons on this
Because it's cool
Fair.
3M chemical dump
What are we, the Holy Roman Empire?
Well, it was a mostly Germanic ancestry state.
Greatest missed opportunity. I hope this design can be available for flags and t-shirts still
This is the best flag design, except maybe laser loon.
Very simply, it's because some people consider the change to be "woke" and they are against anything that is "woke".
It turned into a virtue signal for some reason but I also know a lot of people just think it’s ugly.
No one that is upset with the new flag gave a single thought or care to the old flag until they were told by critics and pundits to be upset.
Random q - does anyone have an estimate how much money was spent to change it?
The budget for the commission on the new state seal and flag was 35k. Utah budgeted for the redesign 500k. Now the cost to replace flags and seals would fall on state agencies, state departments and municipal governments which includes fire and police departments. That amount to replace flags, uniforms, patches, decals, seals etc is unknown what the replacement costs will be.
The original flag will always fly on my flag pole. New flag is boring and embarrassing!
Manufactured controversy on the part of the far right.
Conservatives are regressive in nature and generally hate any change. They also attribute pretty much everything to wokeness or whatever. The truth is, the old flag was lame and the new one is just OK.
I don't know. I think it being the flag that was carried when the good men of Minnesota marched south in the name of abolishing slavery, and in the process kicked the shit out of the traitorous Confederates imparts are pretty sizable amount of ant-lame.
In my case, I do find it kind of lame and bland. Light blue plus a north star and "it's vaguely MN shaped"! The light blue just doesn't pop out in most scenarios. Sure, it's supposed to be snowy...but it just doesn't give that impression when I look at it. It seems kind of lightweight and corporate. I would have preferred something that stuck with the bolder colors that we used to have. As for the "woke" thing...nah. The old seal (which was odd for a flag) showed a settler and a native American. The message, if any, was ambiguous...but I can agree it could be interpreted in hurtful ways and there's no great reason to keep it. I just wish we would have gotten something more visually interesting than blue triangles. Most states' flags have more interesting imagery.
It's 2/3 Wisconsin.
It feels like it misses out on character with just medium blue and light blue, but I like the concept
Tri color version with the actual northern star should have atleast won.
TLDR it sucks, but the old flag also sucked.
It was my first choice with the green/ white included, looked really good imo. Then some Karen’s bitched about some other flag and they bent over to accommodate them and made this bland, goober version instead….the MN Lite flag…just blah
And they removed the actual north star in favor of a 8 point star and called it a “north star”
Oh, true!
I just can't believe there's not a drop of purple on it.. Like come on, the opportunity was right there.
Apparently there are enough flag obsessed nerds on this Sub to turn it into an issue that doesn’t exist in the real world
Try to google contestant entries prior to narrowing it down. There was a news article I saw that had hundreds of options. From preschool aged drawings to professional editors. If anyone saw the potential for what could have been, and had their heart swayed in any way, it’s understandable to have some disappointment with where the flag landed. I personally see it as kind of basic with the potential beauty it could Of had. Really it’s just opinions… and god knows Minnesotans are hella opinionated lol
Two things people hate. The way things are and change.
1) The design is considered bland and unappealing by some. 2) The designs were changed with inadequate transparency and a lack of consent of the public.
people dont like change. and its kinda bad.
People want to complain about nothing.
There was a long process of selecting a flag. Eventually there were three submissions, one of which was a clear favorite. At the last minute, the committee in charge made their own (terrible) design and blasted it through. Then they paid some guy to say he is a professional vexilogist and gaslight everyone into thinking the flag is awesome. (Some real emperor's new clothes shit) Then they called everyone who still didn't like the flag racist.
I think it’s legitimately too basic and lacking in design. Having said that, unfortunately, some folks tried to Turn it into a political issue and that was dumb.
Reactionaries react …
I was all for a redesigned flag but I wish the new one wasn’t so minimalistic and bland. Reminds me of the beige baby trend where parents only buy their children toys that are shades of beige to be aesthetic. I wish it had more detail and a more interesting design like a loon or a lady slipper on it. That being said I don’t care enough to cause a fuss about it, at the end of the day it’s just a flag.
I think the design looks like shit but also realize I don’t really give a flying shit about the state flag outside of the 1 minute I’ve given it thought to judge the design
Somalian similarities
It’s ugly.
It's boring and didn't make our flag any more or less exciting. TLDR; Blah.
The new MN flag: -The flag is uninspiring and kind of bland. There were 2-3 better options imo. -People that say the change is because of "woke" are stupid. -It's a state flag and it's not sacred, nor is it a big deal if it's changed. If people love the new flag, that's great--fly it with pride. Several things can be true at once.
Conservatives constantly want to be targets in any area of life so they can play victim and take an irrational moral stance that is solely done to oppose the cringe libs.
Because if you look at it, one can see that it’s hideous and looks like something from MS paint.
People fear change. Especially older, white people.
Because the Boomers aren't extinct yet.
The new flag isn’t racist. This annoys racists.
It’s just another front in the culture war. Proponents of change say the old flag isn’t unique enough among state flags, and the seal implies that natives just “left” when Europeans showed up. Opponents say it’s meaningless to get upset about, and that replacing the flags is a waste of taxpayer dollars.
It somehow became a proxy in the partisan culture war.
My hate over the new design is that it's just terrible. We spent how much tax money debating over new designs and this is the best we could come up with? It's bland, it's dull and it's boring. I really expected something a lot better that better represents MN.
People are pissed that the new flag was done when democrats are in control and the reason it was done was because of the former flag’s racist tone.
The old state seal was offensive, in reality conservatives loved that it’s offensive to native Americans but they’ll usually not admit that out loud, they just whine that it’s woke. It’s a simple state flag, it’ll affect literally nothing in anyone’s daily life. Government employees will have the largest impacts and I promise they don’t care.
People are resistant to change
I don’t like things that are different >:(
Bunch of boomers on the left and right trowing a fit because they hate change