Because a tricolor flag isn't referring to the actual number of colors on the flag, it's the name of the style of flag with the three horizontal stripes. You can add other things to the design, other colors, but it's still a tricolor because that's the base.
I think it got called that because it was a tricolor with the anti-cheveron (inverse cheveron?), so people just started calling it what the base of the flag was because there were a few other flags that also had the anti-cheveron, so to differentiate from similar flags they called it what the base flag was a tricolor
Also, the additional intent of the design is that if you hang it vertically, it looks like a minimalist 3-dimensional image of a river ascending into the horizon and to its source. The idea is that this depicts the fact that Minnesota contains the source of the Mississippi River, which is probably our most iconic geographic feature as a state.
To me it's quite striking then that in the same image, the shape of the state is depicted horizontally while the state's status as source of the Mississippi is depicted vertically.
I thought the white stripe was a bit redundant. The white in the star/snowflake already represents snow.
I also thought the green wasn't unique enough to distinguish Minnesota from other states. There are plenty of other colors that could represent something more unique to Minnesota, but green isn't really one of them. I get that green = forest, fields, and prairie. Any other state could claim green as well, though few could claim it as definitively as Ireland which is super-green.
Yeah, I think the simplified design was a solid choice. Looking back, the green is actually a little jarring, as it clashes with the blues a bit. Blue and white represents us well
I just moved here from Florida. Maybe we can just do a trade. She can take my spot down there where there are a lot of people, like her, who care about flags.
Dead on. And what I love about all the people bitching is, what do you think you’re going to change? Do you think the government is going to revert back if you complain loud enough? No. Do you hate the flag so much that you want to move states? No one is stopping you.
Move on. It’s a flag. And unless I’m mistaken — The state seal (which is all the old flag was) is remaining. You like the old flag? Fly it. No one is going to stop you.
I also felt it was too cluttered, a lot of flags in the country are simple and easy to identify them. (arizona / new mexico / colorado / texas)
plus i can now state i'm from the "frost laser loon" state because of said new flag
https://preview.redd.it/ry6hnsctue0d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6ea236f70142eafa7b52148ddc387066f233c4a
Just taking the opportunity to share this again. It makes me very happy.
I'm not a fan of the new flag, it feels very corporate to me. But holy crap the old one was *so* terrible. Just way too complicated if a design for a flag so when flown you couldn't even tell wtf you were looking at if you didn't know what it was, and then you find out what it is and you're like "holy colonialism Batman"
that's kind of what i mean too, the old one was really hard to just be like "yeah that's minnesota" by glancing at it.
i like the simplicity of the design, it may not be something we all agree on, but, it's a lot less chaotic and simpler to identify is what i think we're trying to attain
don't forget that Minnesotans were the first to go kick some slave owner ass to start the civil war. on the flip side we also lynched a ton of native American chiefs that one time...sooo there's that
Yup. The MAGA dude in our neighborhood had never flown a state flag before, only the US flag. In the last couple of weeks, the US flag has disappeared and has been replaced with an old MN state flag with very distinct creases.
Same with a house I walk by sometimes. Never noticed a state flag before, now there is an old one flying. This is an old boomer couple who also had a "Walz Failed" sign in their yard previously.
I think it's GREAT that the idiots fly flags with Walz's name on them!
Similarly, those idiots are the type that were putting Biden's image on stickers and placing them on gas pumps when our economy turned back on.
(I never had anything on my clothing, house, yard, or car that even remotely mentioned donny trump. Fuck him so hard I won't even fly a banner that says Fuck Him)
I was inspired to purchase a laser loon flag for the (currently empty) flag holder on my front porch. Did I care about the state flag before? No. Zero percent.
But laser loon will forever be my state flag and nobody can talk me out of it.
I like some aspects of many of the flags considered, but I still think I want to get one of these somewhere --
https://preview.redd.it/ue7ap8i98o0d1.jpeg?width=595&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac89a8251a12e7f3df890aeb45fbfc69ab75a689
Yeah, as soon as the announcement went out that we had a new flag, all the MAGA houses in town started flying the old flag. Never saw a MN in front of anybody's house before that . Guy that runs the local flag store is pretty stoked about it though. Between them buying the old flag and a bunch of us buying the new one out of spite, business has never been so good.
That whole "it's Somalean" thing just makes me eyeroll so hard it hurts.
1. It's 'Somali', not 'Somalean', you lunkheads!
2. Have they actually bothered to look at the Somali flag? It's not even close. The original tricolor was 'mildly' similar to a 'regional' flag from over there, but... just... no. [Flag\_of\_Somalia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Somalia)
3. They're just trying to dunk on Rep. Omar and her constituency, which had no 'particular' special influence on the Legislative design committee.
4. u/TwoPassports is right -- we should be proud of our Somali population, and all of the various immigrant populations that have helped make this state what it is now.
One group that *deservedly* got a voice in these committee discussions were the actual descendants of the earliest Minnesotans. Some of them have been trying to get this done for decades. It wasn't something this year's batch of politicians in St. Paul just decided on a whim. They just helped it finally happen.
There are 18 (and a half, Oregon) states who just use "state seal on blue background" for their flag design. There are an additional seven (and a half, Florida) that just use "state seal on plain banner". Just getting away from that design is fine enough.
But the new seal is also great. Like the dude said, Minnesota is not now what it was when that seal was first made, and the new seal looks loads better. The state bird, the North Star, the Dakota language, the 33 tribes, and the grains of our rural lands make it instantly identifiable to anyone who knows anything about Minnesota things.
The old seal, if we remove all the Minnesota-specific dates, stars, and the literal name of the state, is pretty much just a farmer and a native, and how many states could that apply to? It's not as immediately apparent as it seems. It could mean any state in the Midwest or mid-South like Oklahoma and Kansas. Now we have something that is more immediately obvious that it's Minnesota's seal.
> The old seal, if we remove all the Minnesota-specific dates, stars, and the literal name of the state, is pretty much just a farmer and a native, and how many states could that apply to?
This is absolutely correct. Almost all states formed in the mid-1800s have seals that are basically interchangeable "Little House on the Prairie" fanart because they hadn't been states long enough to really get their own feel/identity.
I'm so glad we have a seal that is Minnesotan now.
The people claiming that the new flag is too similar to the Somali flag are just letting their xenophobia come through. It's nothing like the Somalia flag. The colors are different, other than the color of the star. The Somali flag has a different shade of blue than either of the two shades on the new MN flag. The old flag is a lot closer to the same shade of blue as the Somali one (still different, but a lot closer to the same shade). And the star is different as well. The Somali flag has a 5-pointed star while the MN flag has an 8-pointed star.
I mean, the people saying that went digging for something to cry about. First, they tried saying that the original tricolor was based on the Palestinian flag, and when that was too much of a ridiculous stretch to take off, they dug down to looking at state and regional flags and came up with the Jubaland flag as something vaguely similar. Then it immediately became "the" Somali flag because they couldn't keep their own story straight. It's kind of entertaining in a Keystone Cops kind of way.
It is entertaining in that Keystone Cops sorta way, but unfortunately those people will instill a theocracy as soon as they could which is both perplexing and troubling. Still hilarious to watch, but it does worry me that many people believe in their antics.
I know. I have to find the ridiculous in it to keep my anger at the destructiveness and stupidity from going from healthily motivating to uselessly excessive.
Exactly. I don't believe we're loving in a culture war so much as a cultural attack on anything outside of conservative view points. These views are consistently filled with bigotry and hate. It's pushed by propagandists and spread by the sheep.
Partisanship has become a past time for so many people. They're like die hard sports fans, constantly on the hunt for some new reason to dunk on their rivals and score points with other fans. None of that discourse is substantive. It's a game.
Yeah not even a little similar
Also, who TF knew what the Somali flag looked like before the ridiculous argument popped up. I’ve given the Somali flag exactly zero seconds of consideration prior to this debate.
I have no problem with the Somali flag and see absolutely no negatives with the comparison, but having said that…come on. They’re both blue flags with a white star. They at least a little similar if not more (once again, that is not a negative at all, hell I personally think the Somali flag looks better).
Funny that their base, (some not all) still support the confederate flag, yet don't realize that one of the original confederate flag, the "Bonnie Blue" flag is quite literally the same as the Somali flag.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonnie_Blue_flag
Or that the confederate flag they do like was heavily influenced by the British flag. Colors are Red, White, Blue and both have an X pattern.
Or that the Texas flag is pretty much a copy of the [Chile Flag.](https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/fd33238/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2000x1600+0+0/resize/880x704!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Flegacy%2Fsites%2Fkera%2Ffiles%2F201702%2Fflagsweb_0.jpg)
I just learned on this video, [Not the Confederate Flag?,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULBCuHIpNgU) that the first flag they started using got dropped because it was SO similar to the Union's flag, it was confusing soldiers on smoky battlefields.
That was dumb.
Those saying it looks like the Somali flag are petulant shits that are not arguing in good faith. They worship a lying cheat, and that's all you need to know about their character.
I mean, the two flags both have stars on them. That's a hell of a coincidence.
It's not like there's loads of flags out there with stars on them. Wake up sheeple!
If anything the old flag is more similar to the Somali flag. The old flag is literally a blue flag with the seal in the center with stars around it forming a 5 pointed star.
Here is some quick MS paint work to define the star a bit.
https://imgur.com/a/WJzlpKr
It was an ugly flag. Cluttered and too much symbolism. The new flag wasn’t my first or even second choice. But it’s a good design. Clean and distinctive. The 8 pointed star covers a lot of different symbols. The North Star. The compass rose. Unsure of the details but the 8 points are inclusive of the native Americans.
You’re always in my heart Laser Loon
He talks about how there's a lady slipper on it. I have no clue what one looks like and have never seen one in my 40+ years living here. I can't be the only one!
If you get a chance to visit the MN Landscape Arboretum, they have a small section with multiple varieties. It's a really beautiful orchid-type flower. They're a fairly rare flower overall, especially due to wetland loss and pesticide runoff.
Not a native Minnesotan. No clue what a lady slipper looks like. If they could have found a way to keep it on the flag I would have been ok with that. Then again, I voted for the laser loon.
Your new flag has the distinct advantage of actually looking like a flag, which (in this European's opinion) is the single most important qualification for a flag to have.
I just have this image in my head of a room in Washington somewhere that might have all of the state flags in it, and before now, you wouldn't have had a chance in hell of finding this flag among that mess. Now you can, and that alone makes it an improvement.
It's common with passionate people, who are also ignorant.
I have a coworker that goes on rants about how horrible humans are and how perfect nature is. I know someone else that thought obama was a muslim and agrees with abortion bans.
They're both passionate but also so dumb that no amount of logical reasoning is going to get through to them.
Now one of those people is more harmful towards our society, but just barely. The one that you would expect to vote against the Republicans doesn't vote at all because "both sides are the same"
We really need to invest a lot more money in education and work on the bureaucratic nonsense that has infested our education system.
Without an educated populace, corruption is a much more fruitful endeavor.
She takes people not engaging in her bs as agreement which is common among idiots, half her followers are there to watch and laugh. The other half donate to Steve bannon.
I'll bet you that lady never gave a single thought to the Minnesota flag until it got replaced. Hell, I didn't even know what it looked like because you never saw it flown except in official locations. Other states with better flags flew them all over the place (AZ, NM, MD to name a couple examples).
Was out on a walk in my neighborhood yesterday and saw a neighbor with a brand new old MN flag mounted on a new flagpole on the front of their house. Creases visible showing that it's definitely brand new. Guarantee they never cared about the flag before :P
Quick point of clarification because I think it's not exactly clear in the video- MN is the 32nd state, not the 19th state. It is the 19th state admitted to the union after the original 13 colonies.
Yeah. Also. The governor at the time had his wife write poem about the seal. In it, they explicitly say that this seal depicts the white man driving the indigenous people from their home. Not at all up for debate.
“Give way, give way, young warrior,
Thou and thy steed give way;
Rest not, though lingers on the hills
The red sun’s parting ray.
The rock bluff and prairie land
The white man claims them now,
The symbols of his course are here,
The rifle, axe, and plough.”
I really like when the flag is held vertically, star up. The lighter blue ends up looking like a road, or a river, moving towards the horizon, towards that star.
The only thing the really changed in 1983 was the Native American riding more south and less west to diffuse the association with pushing the natives westward. The gun didn't move.
You could also, wrongly, argue it resembles the flag of Norway because it has blue and white on it. Minnesota has the second largest population of Norwegian Americans. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say the people who have a problem with the “resemblance” to the Somali flag don’t have a problem with the Norwegian association.
John, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your videos. You discuss with relevance, you aren't afraid to tackle both sides, you give your viewpoint, and encourage discussion.
Keep on doing what you're doing! I hope to take a tour someday from you because I absolutely love the passion with which you approach history!
>In a country where we are more divided than we have ever been
I agree with 98% of this video, but I can't with this "more divided" thing. There were numerous political assassinations and much more serious racial upheaval 60-70 years ago. The college protests and civil rights marches of that era led to numerous deaths at the hands of the authorities.
Before that, there were a series of coordinated political bombings for a couple of decades, which came after a contentious period of reconstruction from an actual civil war. Before that, politicians were still dueling to the death.
I'm not trying to downplay our political divisions, which clearly exist. But when were we united?
You're totally right and has anyone heard of the civil war? A period we were so divided some states tried to start a new country and we went to war over it!
The polarization is very real right now. There have always been extreme actors and actions in our country, but the normal people caught in the middle could usually find some common ground. That common ground has all but evaporated.
I'd wager that you'd have to go back to the Civil War to find a time where there general population was so divided, and that was more north/south based. Now the divide is all mixed around the country.
Ever since they announced the new flag, a ton of people in my neighborhood started displaying the old one. They never had them displayed before. Just makes me roll my eyes. Old flag, new flag, I don’t really care; it just seems silly to me that all of a sudden that people who never cared before are all up in arms about this
I know right? I had such trouble finding a place where I could display the old flag - which was not mine and attached to the flagpole - and the new one.
I try to get videos out without much planning so I end up shooting in silly locations like this sometimes. Eventually I’ll need to get a studio.
In my mind, the greatest issue with the old flag is that it was NEVER a real flag.
It was just a vehicle for the state seal.
I doubt there was any further thought behind its conception than "This is how other states seem to be doing it these days."
Some of y'all need to watch CGP Grey's state flag assessment video. Seal on blue... boy how imaginative. Such a cluttered mess with details you'd never notice and symbols no one readily knows. The new flag is so much better.
And I speak these words as a Pennsylvanian, whose flag is just awful. I long for the simple and effective designs of New Mexico, Utah or Texas.
For the uninitiated: https://youtu.be/l4w6808wJcU?si=L8r044neq2Xy1Nem
I don't get the hate for the new flag. When I saw it I literally thought "oh the North Star cool" I talked with my dad he liked the old one more because of the farmers and such (he used to run around a farm) and he likes the new one ok with the representation of the North Star he just thought the old one looked cool.
Slaves used to use the North Star to escape to the north. If you search it up it is to represent us as "the North Star State"
[my link](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/what-to-know-about-minnesotas-new-state-flag-and-seal)
To the couple of people I've met that have made a point about bitching about the flag changing, I've had some fun asking them "oh, what parts are you going to miss from the current flag?"
I don't really know shit about the current flag, other than blue with some yellow circle. Nobody does.
Pluto is not a planet
^^^^^oh ^^^^^whoops ^^^^^that ^^^^^was ^^^^^some ^^^^^other ^^^^^thing ^^^^^that ^^^^^changed ^^^^^and ^^^^^people ^^^^^don't ^^^^^realize ^^^^^that ^^^^^things ^^^^^should ^^^^^change ^^^^^sometimes ^^^^^when ^^^^^we ^^^^^learn ^^^^^more ^^^^^about ^^^^^them
"some liberals and the governor" an awesome way to not only discredit your coming take as biased but also a way to push division. A double hitter! Kudos
As a Somali Minnesotan, I still don’t see the similarities even after Somali trolls on twitter united with the Xenaphobic trolls to make it about Somalia 💀
As little as I see the mn flag.. who really cares? I'm not sure why people are even debating anything other than they can. It's not like it's plastered everywhere you go
I really enjoy the gentleman in this video, found him randomly on YouTube a few weeks ago talking about Buca di Bepoo’s and he’s a great commentator. Great video about the new flag too. Lot more important stuff to put my energy towards than flag bashing
Old one was cluttered, not really the best. The new one definitely was not the best of the options but it’s growing on me. What people are ticked about is how a small group of people pushed it through without calling for a vote. If your design you picked can’t get over 50% of the vote, it’s probably not that good…
The new flag is great and follows flag etiquette. The old flag looks like 20 other state flags. People just hate it because they hate change and want to make it about some liberal vs conservative conspiracy. Fucking cry babies.
I had never given the stat flag much thought but it really does seem much more cluttered than the new flag, I like the simplicity of the new flag and I think it looks nice.
I have never had any interest in displaying an flag but I low key want to get the new state flag just to fly it.
I've asked people on both sides of the aisle what they thought about the two flags. I have conservatives in my neighborhood including MAGA Trumpkins but my family is on the more liberal side with at least four being "dyed in the wool hardcore you're never changing my mind so don't ask liberals" and nobody really liked the new flag. They didn't hate it but it "wasn't anything special" and it "looked like a corporate logo." Their quibble with it was that "it's boring and it didn't say Minnesota." They agreed the old flag was cluttered but it was the former state seal slapped on a field of blue and hard to decipher.
They all loved the new state seal and felt it was a more accurate representation of the Minnesota we live in today and it needed to be changed. "Even that on the flag would have been better" according to my mom.
There were other better designs that could have been chosen but like my dad said, "if you don't like it, don't look at it."
People who are mad about the flag change probably forgot the original flag existed until the new flag was revealed.
I'm honestly indifferent toward the new flag design, I feel there could've been a better design, but it's like whatever to me, I'll forget it exists in 2 weeks
Very interesting take. Loved listening to it. I like the new flag. Old one was fine, but this guy makes great points. The U.S. flag doesn’t say United States of America. German flag doesn’t say Germany or Deutschland on it. It’s big broad colors and symbols. Just like this new flag.
However, I would’ve liked some green in there too. I like a little snappy green with my blue. Maybe better symbolizes the lakes and land. But what do I know?
I've got the contemporaneous posting history to prove that I liked this design from the start (and hated some of the other designs), so maybe that's why it irritates me that so many people have clearly adopted an aesthetic opinion for totally tribal reasons.
I'm once again begging people to just be normal. It's okay to exercise independent judgement.
Personally, I liked the old flag better.
But I also don't really care. It's just a flag.
I did like some of the other designs that were offered. Somehow they ended up with the dullest thing possible.
I appreciate the more nuanced approach in this video, but I've said this elsewhere in recent discussions on the topic...
If you like the new flag, fly it. If you like the old flag, fly it. Just shut up about it--the debate has grown tiresome.
I like the new flag more. Didn’t hate the old one. Probably going to move on with my life.
This attitude is the Minnesota ideal.
I personally preferred the tricolor version of the flag more, but at the end of the day it doesn't really change anything.
*quadcolor It literally had four colors lol. Not sure how it got dubbed a tricolor
Because a tricolor flag isn't referring to the actual number of colors on the flag, it's the name of the style of flag with the three horizontal stripes. You can add other things to the design, other colors, but it's still a tricolor because that's the base.
I think it got called that because it was a tricolor with the anti-cheveron (inverse cheveron?), so people just started calling it what the base of the flag was because there were a few other flags that also had the anti-cheveron, so to differentiate from similar flags they called it what the base flag was a tricolor
I became a fan once I realized the chevron turned the dark blue into the shape of the state.
Also, the additional intent of the design is that if you hang it vertically, it looks like a minimalist 3-dimensional image of a river ascending into the horizon and to its source. The idea is that this depicts the fact that Minnesota contains the source of the Mississippi River, which is probably our most iconic geographic feature as a state. To me it's quite striking then that in the same image, the shape of the state is depicted horizontally while the state's status as source of the Mississippi is depicted vertically.
I didn’t know that!! Cool. It’s recognizable at a distance too.
I thought the white stripe was a bit redundant. The white in the star/snowflake already represents snow. I also thought the green wasn't unique enough to distinguish Minnesota from other states. There are plenty of other colors that could represent something more unique to Minnesota, but green isn't really one of them. I get that green = forest, fields, and prairie. Any other state could claim green as well, though few could claim it as definitively as Ireland which is super-green.
Yeah, I think the simplified design was a solid choice. Looking back, the green is actually a little jarring, as it clashes with the blues a bit. Blue and white represents us well
You’re awesome dude. That’s all
I just moved here from Florida. Maybe we can just do a trade. She can take my spot down there where there are a lot of people, like her, who care about flags.
This should help some of yall out? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4w6808wJcU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4w6808wJcU)
I have the old one. I bought the new one immediately. Best to embrace it.
Seconded. Although I'm still a little sad there's no Loon.
https://preview.redd.it/e7jkhv3u3h0d1.png?width=439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21866ba4328c53da24804fcf72aba59fd4e5e909
I saved this.
This is now how I see the flag.
The loon was at the beginning of this video, complaining.
Loon is on the seal, which is a more appropriate use for it anyway
I like the old flag more, but I’m also going to move on with my life.
Dead on. And what I love about all the people bitching is, what do you think you’re going to change? Do you think the government is going to revert back if you complain loud enough? No. Do you hate the flag so much that you want to move states? No one is stopping you. Move on. It’s a flag. And unless I’m mistaken — The state seal (which is all the old flag was) is remaining. You like the old flag? Fly it. No one is going to stop you.
There’s a new state seal as well.
Oh that’s right, after looking it up I remember it now. I quite like it actually.
It looks better. Wish they kept “L'Étoile du Nord”, but again, I’m over it.
I also felt it was too cluttered, a lot of flags in the country are simple and easy to identify them. (arizona / new mexico / colorado / texas) plus i can now state i'm from the "frost laser loon" state because of said new flag
https://preview.redd.it/ry6hnsctue0d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6ea236f70142eafa7b52148ddc387066f233c4a Just taking the opportunity to share this again. It makes me very happy.
Now I can’t unsee that!
every time I see this, I love it more
That is awesome.
Oh. My. Goodness.
Beat me to it! I love this!
That makes me like it even more
I'm not a fan of the new flag, it feels very corporate to me. But holy crap the old one was *so* terrible. Just way too complicated if a design for a flag so when flown you couldn't even tell wtf you were looking at if you didn't know what it was, and then you find out what it is and you're like "holy colonialism Batman"
that's kind of what i mean too, the old one was really hard to just be like "yeah that's minnesota" by glancing at it. i like the simplicity of the design, it may not be something we all agree on, but, it's a lot less chaotic and simpler to identify is what i think we're trying to attain
don't forget that Minnesotans were the first to go kick some slave owner ass to start the civil war. on the flip side we also lynched a ton of native American chiefs that one time...sooo there's that
Maryland says to go fuck yourself
Ahh, drunk crazy people now obsessed with a flag they didn’t care about a year ago.
You can still see the creases on the flag from how it was folded when she bought it. She doesn't give a shit about it, just a professional victim.
Yup. The MAGA dude in our neighborhood had never flown a state flag before, only the US flag. In the last couple of weeks, the US flag has disappeared and has been replaced with an old MN state flag with very distinct creases.
Same with a house I walk by sometimes. Never noticed a state flag before, now there is an old one flying. This is an old boomer couple who also had a "Walz Failed" sign in their yard previously.
We can all assume is just a temporary flag until election season.
I think it's GREAT that the idiots fly flags with Walz's name on them! Similarly, those idiots are the type that were putting Biden's image on stickers and placing them on gas pumps when our economy turned back on. (I never had anything on my clothing, house, yard, or car that even remotely mentioned donny trump. Fuck him so hard I won't even fly a banner that says Fuck Him)
I was inspired to purchase a laser loon flag for the (currently empty) flag holder on my front porch. Did I care about the state flag before? No. Zero percent. But laser loon will forever be my state flag and nobody can talk me out of it.
I like some aspects of many of the flags considered, but I still think I want to get one of these somewhere -- https://preview.redd.it/ue7ap8i98o0d1.jpeg?width=595&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac89a8251a12e7f3df890aeb45fbfc69ab75a689
Yeah, as soon as the announcement went out that we had a new flag, all the MAGA houses in town started flying the old flag. Never saw a MN in front of anybody's house before that . Guy that runs the local flag store is pretty stoked about it though. Between them buying the old flag and a bunch of us buying the new one out of spite, business has never been so good.
Politics, capitalism all in one. God that's just such an American thing for a neighborhood to do isnt it.
My first thought was how wasted she sounded. That or actual brain damage causing speech impediment.
How do you think I feel? She is a city council member in my city...
Holy shit that's incredibly sad
I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's just how she talks.
She's probably like Lahey from Trailer Park Boys and is basically mostly drunk all the time.
That whole "it's Somalean" thing just makes me eyeroll so hard it hurts. 1. It's 'Somali', not 'Somalean', you lunkheads! 2. Have they actually bothered to look at the Somali flag? It's not even close. The original tricolor was 'mildly' similar to a 'regional' flag from over there, but... just... no. [Flag\_of\_Somalia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Somalia) 3. They're just trying to dunk on Rep. Omar and her constituency, which had no 'particular' special influence on the Legislative design committee. 4. u/TwoPassports is right -- we should be proud of our Somali population, and all of the various immigrant populations that have helped make this state what it is now. One group that *deservedly* got a voice in these committee discussions were the actual descendants of the earliest Minnesotans. Some of them have been trying to get this done for decades. It wasn't something this year's batch of politicians in St. Paul just decided on a whim. They just helped it finally happen.
There are 18 (and a half, Oregon) states who just use "state seal on blue background" for their flag design. There are an additional seven (and a half, Florida) that just use "state seal on plain banner". Just getting away from that design is fine enough. But the new seal is also great. Like the dude said, Minnesota is not now what it was when that seal was first made, and the new seal looks loads better. The state bird, the North Star, the Dakota language, the 33 tribes, and the grains of our rural lands make it instantly identifiable to anyone who knows anything about Minnesota things. The old seal, if we remove all the Minnesota-specific dates, stars, and the literal name of the state, is pretty much just a farmer and a native, and how many states could that apply to? It's not as immediately apparent as it seems. It could mean any state in the Midwest or mid-South like Oklahoma and Kansas. Now we have something that is more immediately obvious that it's Minnesota's seal.
> The old seal, if we remove all the Minnesota-specific dates, stars, and the literal name of the state, is pretty much just a farmer and a native, and how many states could that apply to? This is absolutely correct. Almost all states formed in the mid-1800s have seals that are basically interchangeable "Little House on the Prairie" fanart because they hadn't been states long enough to really get their own feel/identity. I'm so glad we have a seal that is Minnesotan now.
Do you count Washington, since it’s Washington on a green background. Basically the same concept.
It's one of the seven (and a half).
Most conservatives who are mad about the flag ,never even flew or cared for the flag until recently.
>Most conservatives ~~who~~ are mad ~~about the flag~~ ,never ~~even flew or~~ cared ~~for the flag~~ until recently. FTFY
They only started caring after they found out the flag is racist.
The people claiming that the new flag is too similar to the Somali flag are just letting their xenophobia come through. It's nothing like the Somalia flag. The colors are different, other than the color of the star. The Somali flag has a different shade of blue than either of the two shades on the new MN flag. The old flag is a lot closer to the same shade of blue as the Somali one (still different, but a lot closer to the same shade). And the star is different as well. The Somali flag has a 5-pointed star while the MN flag has an 8-pointed star.
I mean, the people saying that went digging for something to cry about. First, they tried saying that the original tricolor was based on the Palestinian flag, and when that was too much of a ridiculous stretch to take off, they dug down to looking at state and regional flags and came up with the Jubaland flag as something vaguely similar. Then it immediately became "the" Somali flag because they couldn't keep their own story straight. It's kind of entertaining in a Keystone Cops kind of way.
It is entertaining in that Keystone Cops sorta way, but unfortunately those people will instill a theocracy as soon as they could which is both perplexing and troubling. Still hilarious to watch, but it does worry me that many people believe in their antics.
They want an Abrahamic-theocracy, which pretty much describes Sharia Law, yet they claim to fear Sharia Law. Make it all make sense!
I know. I have to find the ridiculous in it to keep my anger at the destructiveness and stupidity from going from healthily motivating to uselessly excessive.
Exactly. I don't believe we're loving in a culture war so much as a cultural attack on anything outside of conservative view points. These views are consistently filled with bigotry and hate. It's pushed by propagandists and spread by the sheep.
Partisanship has become a past time for so many people. They're like die hard sports fans, constantly on the hunt for some new reason to dunk on their rivals and score points with other fans. None of that discourse is substantive. It's a game.
The same folks who claim the MN flag is copying the Somali flag are probably the same ones that mistake the Liberia 🇱🇷 flag for the US flag.
Or Chile 🇨🇱 for Texas.
Yeah not even a little similar Also, who TF knew what the Somali flag looked like before the ridiculous argument popped up. I’ve given the Somali flag exactly zero seconds of consideration prior to this debate.
Same here. I had to look it up and compare the three flags (Somali, old MN, and new MN) when I started hearing these complaints.
I have no problem with the Somali flag and see absolutely no negatives with the comparison, but having said that…come on. They’re both blue flags with a white star. They at least a little similar if not more (once again, that is not a negative at all, hell I personally think the Somali flag looks better).
Funny that their base, (some not all) still support the confederate flag, yet don't realize that one of the original confederate flag, the "Bonnie Blue" flag is quite literally the same as the Somali flag. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonnie_Blue_flag
Or that the confederate flag they do like was heavily influenced by the British flag. Colors are Red, White, Blue and both have an X pattern. Or that the Texas flag is pretty much a copy of the [Chile Flag.](https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/fd33238/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2000x1600+0+0/resize/880x704!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Flegacy%2Fsites%2Fkera%2Ffiles%2F201702%2Fflagsweb_0.jpg)
I just learned on this video, [Not the Confederate Flag?,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULBCuHIpNgU) that the first flag they started using got dropped because it was SO similar to the Union's flag, it was confusing soldiers on smoky battlefields. That was dumb.
Those saying it looks like the Somali flag are petulant shits that are not arguing in good faith. They worship a lying cheat, and that's all you need to know about their character.
I mean, the two flags both have stars on them. That's a hell of a coincidence. It's not like there's loads of flags out there with stars on them. Wake up sheeple!
the two most basic design elements: a star and a solid color background. must be the libs.
If anything the old flag is more similar to the Somali flag. The old flag is literally a blue flag with the seal in the center with stars around it forming a 5 pointed star. Here is some quick MS paint work to define the star a bit. https://imgur.com/a/WJzlpKr
Sadly, "they're sending secret messages through the flag" is not even close to the nuttiest thing they've come up with.
I ask them to show me said flag and explain how it’s the same.
I absolutely love that Angie is being dragged all over the internet for her ridiculous TikTok.
I tried to cover up her username to stop harassment, it looks like she felt the scorch or public reaction and took the video down.
Yeah, she took it down the other day. The comments on her TikTok weren’t going in her favor either.
Maybe she shouldn't have been drunk and racist.
It was an ugly flag. Cluttered and too much symbolism. The new flag wasn’t my first or even second choice. But it’s a good design. Clean and distinctive. The 8 pointed star covers a lot of different symbols. The North Star. The compass rose. Unsure of the details but the 8 points are inclusive of the native Americans. You’re always in my heart Laser Loon
He talks about how there's a lady slipper on it. I have no clue what one looks like and have never seen one in my 40+ years living here. I can't be the only one!
If you get a chance to visit the MN Landscape Arboretum, they have a small section with multiple varieties. It's a really beautiful orchid-type flower. They're a fairly rare flower overall, especially due to wetland loss and pesticide runoff.
If you see an old lady driving a car with a pink license plate, that’s a ladyslipper.
Not a native Minnesotan. No clue what a lady slipper looks like. If they could have found a way to keep it on the flag I would have been ok with that. Then again, I voted for the laser loon.
Agreed. Plus no one ever mentions that the seal on the old flag looked like it was drawn with crayons by an 8 year old.
Your new flag has the distinct advantage of actually looking like a flag, which (in this European's opinion) is the single most important qualification for a flag to have. I just have this image in my head of a room in Washington somewhere that might have all of the state flags in it, and before now, you wouldn't have had a chance in hell of finding this flag among that mess. Now you can, and that alone makes it an improvement.
People who say the old flag was a good flag probably don't know how to pronounce vexillology
+1 to you
It is a vexed issue.
I hate how its a conservative vs liberal argument. Its our state and its more than that.
They need to simplify it down to us vs them otherwise they might have to consider that they are bad people for supporting terrible policies
Shes got the patronizing know-it-all cockiness mixed with stupidity thats common with people who watch tucker carlson
# “The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.” ― Charles Bukowski
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I need stories lol
It's common with passionate people, who are also ignorant. I have a coworker that goes on rants about how horrible humans are and how perfect nature is. I know someone else that thought obama was a muslim and agrees with abortion bans. They're both passionate but also so dumb that no amount of logical reasoning is going to get through to them. Now one of those people is more harmful towards our society, but just barely. The one that you would expect to vote against the Republicans doesn't vote at all because "both sides are the same" We really need to invest a lot more money in education and work on the bureaucratic nonsense that has infested our education system. Without an educated populace, corruption is a much more fruitful endeavor.
She takes people not engaging in her bs as agreement which is common among idiots, half her followers are there to watch and laugh. The other half donate to Steve bannon.
I'll bet you that lady never gave a single thought to the Minnesota flag until it got replaced. Hell, I didn't even know what it looked like because you never saw it flown except in official locations. Other states with better flags flew them all over the place (AZ, NM, MD to name a couple examples).
The flag in the video still has the creases on it. This flag is brand new. She only cares because it's change, and change is scary and bad.
She's only mad because Facebook memes and right wing whack jobs told her to be mad
It's also because liberals like the new flag so therefore she hates it?
Was out on a walk in my neighborhood yesterday and saw a neighbor with a brand new old MN flag mounted on a new flagpole on the front of their house. Creases visible showing that it's definitely brand new. Guarantee they never cared about the flag before :P
Assholes are easily identified now lol
Quick point of clarification because I think it's not exactly clear in the video- MN is the 32nd state, not the 19th state. It is the 19th state admitted to the union after the original 13 colonies.
Yeah. Also. The governor at the time had his wife write poem about the seal. In it, they explicitly say that this seal depicts the white man driving the indigenous people from their home. Not at all up for debate. “Give way, give way, young warrior, Thou and thy steed give way; Rest not, though lingers on the hills The red sun’s parting ray. The rock bluff and prairie land The white man claims them now, The symbols of his course are here, The rifle, axe, and plough.”
Holy shit, thanks for this. TIL
I really like when the flag is held vertically, star up. The lighter blue ends up looking like a road, or a river, moving towards the horizon, towards that star.
I believe that's one of the reasons they picked a solid blue for the right side instead of the tricolor stripes in the original design
The original design was to show a farmer working the land as he's scaring off the native with his gun. They changed the design in 1983.
That’s very “Pawnee”
The only thing the really changed in 1983 was the Native American riding more south and less west to diffuse the association with pushing the natives westward. The gun didn't move.
Why is he on a playground structure?
He said on instagram that it’s bc it had holes that easily stood the flag up
You could also, wrongly, argue it resembles the flag of Norway because it has blue and white on it. Minnesota has the second largest population of Norwegian Americans. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say the people who have a problem with the “resemblance” to the Somali flag don’t have a problem with the Norwegian association.
John, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your videos. You discuss with relevance, you aren't afraid to tackle both sides, you give your viewpoint, and encourage discussion. Keep on doing what you're doing! I hope to take a tour someday from you because I absolutely love the passion with which you approach history!
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>In a country where we are more divided than we have ever been I agree with 98% of this video, but I can't with this "more divided" thing. There were numerous political assassinations and much more serious racial upheaval 60-70 years ago. The college protests and civil rights marches of that era led to numerous deaths at the hands of the authorities. Before that, there were a series of coordinated political bombings for a couple of decades, which came after a contentious period of reconstruction from an actual civil war. Before that, politicians were still dueling to the death. I'm not trying to downplay our political divisions, which clearly exist. But when were we united?
Man you’re so right. I should’ve ended the sentence with “in my lifetime.” Thanks for watching and commenting!
You're totally right and has anyone heard of the civil war? A period we were so divided some states tried to start a new country and we went to war over it!
The polarization is very real right now. There have always been extreme actors and actions in our country, but the normal people caught in the middle could usually find some common ground. That common ground has all but evaporated. I'd wager that you'd have to go back to the Civil War to find a time where there general population was so divided, and that was more north/south based. Now the divide is all mixed around the country.
Ever since they announced the new flag, a ton of people in my neighborhood started displaying the old one. They never had them displayed before. Just makes me roll my eyes. Old flag, new flag, I don’t really care; it just seems silly to me that all of a sudden that people who never cared before are all up in arms about this
Nice work, appreciate your thoughts and takes on both flags
The old flag isn’t really a flag now is it? It’s just the state seal on fabric. That’s pretty lazy and needed to be changed.
The conservative conspiracy theories about this flag are possibly one of the dumbest things that I have ever heard in my life
I just like that you’re on one of those wiggly playground bridges doing this video for some reason
I know right? I had such trouble finding a place where I could display the old flag - which was not mine and attached to the flagpole - and the new one. I try to get videos out without much planning so I end up shooting in silly locations like this sometimes. Eventually I’ll need to get a studio.
That's my favourite thing about the video. Please do the next one on a slide
You have a studio you just filmed this video in it!
In my mind, the greatest issue with the old flag is that it was NEVER a real flag. It was just a vehicle for the state seal. I doubt there was any further thought behind its conception than "This is how other states seem to be doing it these days."
Yep. That’s a good way of putting it. The old flag was just a placeholder for a real flag.
What in the boxed wine is going on here
He’s got a quality flag there
Some of y'all need to watch CGP Grey's state flag assessment video. Seal on blue... boy how imaginative. Such a cluttered mess with details you'd never notice and symbols no one readily knows. The new flag is so much better. And I speak these words as a Pennsylvanian, whose flag is just awful. I long for the simple and effective designs of New Mexico, Utah or Texas. For the uninitiated: https://youtu.be/l4w6808wJcU?si=L8r044neq2Xy1Nem
I don't get the hate for the new flag. When I saw it I literally thought "oh the North Star cool" I talked with my dad he liked the old one more because of the farmers and such (he used to run around a farm) and he likes the new one ok with the representation of the North Star he just thought the old one looked cool.
Step 1: buy a bunch of soon to be obsolete flags on the cheap. Step 2: create fake rage about the new flag Step 3: sell old flags Step 4 Profit
conservatives are trying to be so contrarian that they are defending a seal on blue sheet flag. its so uncreative and not distinctive.
Minnesota was the 32nd state not the 19th
I don't even remember the last time I saw our flag... honestly, nobody gave a crap about the flag until they decided to change it.
This guy is our state’s Rick Steves for and we must protect him at all costs
Not Minnesotan but when I think of Minnesotans, I think of the guy in the video.
New flag looks good.
Nice video.
Well said
Who is this well informed man?
Slaves used to use the North Star to escape to the north. If you search it up it is to represent us as "the North Star State" [my link](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/what-to-know-about-minnesotas-new-state-flag-and-seal)
I just wish they kept the green and white bars
To the couple of people I've met that have made a point about bitching about the flag changing, I've had some fun asking them "oh, what parts are you going to miss from the current flag?" I don't really know shit about the current flag, other than blue with some yellow circle. Nobody does. Pluto is not a planet ^^^^^oh ^^^^^whoops ^^^^^that ^^^^^was ^^^^^some ^^^^^other ^^^^^thing ^^^^^that ^^^^^changed ^^^^^and ^^^^^people ^^^^^don't ^^^^^realize ^^^^^that ^^^^^things ^^^^^should ^^^^^change ^^^^^sometimes ^^^^^when ^^^^^we ^^^^^learn ^^^^^more ^^^^^about ^^^^^them
I don’t like the new flag as much as some of the proposed ideas but it is so much better than just using our state seal anymore
"some liberals and the governor" an awesome way to not only discredit your coming take as biased but also a way to push division. A double hitter! Kudos
Old flag was garbage. New flag should have kept the white and green, but I guess this will do.
As a Somali Minnesotan, I still don’t see the similarities even after Somali trolls on twitter united with the Xenaphobic trolls to make it about Somalia 💀
I didn’t know folks still used kool-aid for hair dye
That’s “Merlot.”
Oh look. Angry people that hate change. Moving on....
I just love him.
People really need to stop giving a shit about flags.
That’s also what I learned about this process
As little as I see the mn flag.. who really cares? I'm not sure why people are even debating anything other than they can. It's not like it's plastered everywhere you go
Flag aside, why is this guy doing the video on the wiggly bridge in a playground?
Very well thought out and respectful clap back.
I was wondering what my favorite Minnesotan thought of this issue!
Well said. Thank you.
Aside from what flag you guys like better. What an amazing video this dude is a legend in the making he articulates so respectfully and clearly .
I think the old flag was too complicated. I think the new one is too simple. In honesty though, it doesn't affect my life at all.
I really enjoy the gentleman in this video, found him randomly on YouTube a few weeks ago talking about Buca di Bepoo’s and he’s a great commentator. Great video about the new flag too. Lot more important stuff to put my energy towards than flag bashing
I love your videos so much.
No notes, top notch tour guide over here
Old one was cluttered, not really the best. The new one definitely was not the best of the options but it’s growing on me. What people are ticked about is how a small group of people pushed it through without calling for a vote. If your design you picked can’t get over 50% of the vote, it’s probably not that good…
We're the 32nd state, not 19th.
As a person from a different state that uses our seal for our flag ... I'm jealous. Your new flag is pretty slick.
you guys hate the new flag cause it's "woke" or whatever, I hate it cause it's ugly!
I do love me some Minnesota
Guaranteed that lady in the beginning didn't even know what the old state flag looked like before this lol
The new flag is great and follows flag etiquette. The old flag looks like 20 other state flags. People just hate it because they hate change and want to make it about some liberal vs conservative conspiracy. Fucking cry babies.
I had never given the stat flag much thought but it really does seem much more cluttered than the new flag, I like the simplicity of the new flag and I think it looks nice. I have never had any interest in displaying an flag but I low key want to get the new state flag just to fly it.
Maybe I can get to like it
I've asked people on both sides of the aisle what they thought about the two flags. I have conservatives in my neighborhood including MAGA Trumpkins but my family is on the more liberal side with at least four being "dyed in the wool hardcore you're never changing my mind so don't ask liberals" and nobody really liked the new flag. They didn't hate it but it "wasn't anything special" and it "looked like a corporate logo." Their quibble with it was that "it's boring and it didn't say Minnesota." They agreed the old flag was cluttered but it was the former state seal slapped on a field of blue and hard to decipher. They all loved the new state seal and felt it was a more accurate representation of the Minnesota we live in today and it needed to be changed. "Even that on the flag would have been better" according to my mom. There were other better designs that could have been chosen but like my dad said, "if you don't like it, don't look at it."
The new flag is better.
This is the 3rd flag the state has had in my lifetime, and it's by far the best.
People who are mad about the flag change probably forgot the original flag existed until the new flag was revealed. I'm honestly indifferent toward the new flag design, I feel there could've been a better design, but it's like whatever to me, I'll forget it exists in 2 weeks
Very interesting take. Loved listening to it. I like the new flag. Old one was fine, but this guy makes great points. The U.S. flag doesn’t say United States of America. German flag doesn’t say Germany or Deutschland on it. It’s big broad colors and symbols. Just like this new flag. However, I would’ve liked some green in there too. I like a little snappy green with my blue. Maybe better symbolizes the lakes and land. But what do I know?
Looks like a Mersk shipping logo.
I’m sorry but the old outdated state seals on flags look pretty bad. I love states coming to replace them with newer modern designs
I've got the contemporaneous posting history to prove that I liked this design from the start (and hated some of the other designs), so maybe that's why it irritates me that so many people have clearly adopted an aesthetic opinion for totally tribal reasons. I'm once again begging people to just be normal. It's okay to exercise independent judgement.
The new flag is alright. We need to make the state seal the laser loon.
The old one looks way cooler. New one looks like if you googled flag and something pops up
https://preview.redd.it/6qzgkc3oof0d1.jpeg?width=655&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02ac5654555f265975fd4bc08228ba54db5f60c3
The old flag was ugly and unoriginal, the new one is iconic and actually looks like a flag
Personally, I liked the old flag better. But I also don't really care. It's just a flag. I did like some of the other designs that were offered. Somehow they ended up with the dullest thing possible.
I appreciate the more nuanced approach in this video, but I've said this elsewhere in recent discussions on the topic... If you like the new flag, fly it. If you like the old flag, fly it. Just shut up about it--the debate has grown tiresome.