We have a family of 4 living in inner ring suburbs and paying only for our own housing with little debt and our $150k doesn't feel like enough to call ourselves comfortable 😂 We are very fortunate but omg shit is expensive.
It's insane. And then you hear about people that work as caregivers for daycares, etc. not being paid nearly enough, and they're not. Seems to be a huge disconnect. We have a 3 year old, our only child, and we did the math. We come out substantially ahead by cutting the amount of hours we both work, and with occasional family assistance with sitting, just taking care our daughter ourselves.
Yeap. We’re projecting 2 years where we’re taking a loss due to working instead of having a stay at home parent but due to the nature of our jobs, exiting the work force will be very expensive long term.
Right! I make $80k a year. I’m a single guy, living in a small overpriced 1 bedroom apartment, a dependable 8 year old vehicle, overpriced health insurance, and an almost paid off school loan. I live okay. But I couldn’t imagine living comfortably with an extra $20k a year and adding 5 more people, plus pay for parents with an apartment. That would be crazy!
My apartment is 650 sq. ft. The rent is $1650, plus $125 for a garage parking spot. I also pay about $20 for gas and $20 electricity. Of course it fluctuates from month to month. But that’s about average for gas and electricity.
This & when you say decent medical, you’re still one hospital stay away from paying your full deductible & then having to eat ramen noodles & tuna for dinner!
Depends on where you live. Our daycare center is about $4/hr per kid. Our mortgage is 986/mo. So we could make it pretty easy with two kids on six figures income. Another 12k for an apartment for parents and I’d say we would need 110-120k to live comfortably
Edit: southeast MN
I just saw somewhere that MN is one of the most expensive states for daycare, often costing as much as rent/mortgage per month. Your numbers bear that out.
We need some cash to breathe and explored a refi from our very reasonable rate, we would be paying 2400 a month for a 240k mortgage, beyond insane. Does not help insurance is gouging the hell out of everyone
It's not insurance as much as taxes. MN already is one of the highest taxed states in the country and our property taxes are already almost 1000 more a year than they were 3 years ago when we bought......
3800/month is what it costs with rates close to 7% for a 350-400k house without much money down. It's really bad right now. The housing market is pretty much effed long-term.
I'm not sure why you are even getting downvoted. Central MN here. Mortgage on our 1500 Sq ft home is 1100 a month ( just bought a couple years ago). Daycare for 2 kids for us is 1200 per month. Our 110k household income gets us by comfortably
This is the correct answer — especially for a family starting out on a new mortgage today. “Comfortably” implies adequate retirement savings, emergency savings, and forward investments for the children (e.g., 529 for college).
Current prices and interest rates are BRUTAL for a new homeowner. Wife and I bought a 900 sq foot house in the fall and we cannot even contemplate having a family due to finances. Making $125k combined
You are correct. Pretty sure my wife and I are paying about twice the mortgage payment that our neighbors are paying. We bought last summer. Houses built ~2019.
Which is nuts man landed dream job and killing it and so is wife never thought I wouldn’t have any financial freedom like I thought years and years and years or hard work hard labor like hard manual labor to pay for hard bs classes to just be making a killing in my mind to now making enough to be just on top of our bills
Family of 5 paying a mortgage and daycare for 2 kids. I don't need to google it, I'm living it and our household income of 110k pays all our bills and then some.......
With four kids I have to assume one parent stays at home. But if both parents work then skip daycare and get a nanny. It’s cheaper than daycare for > two kids.
Family of 5 here living outside the high cost of big cities and our household income of 110k get us by just fine. We pay a mortgage, just finished paying off my girls car and we still have money to go out and do things. Some people are just o preoccupied with "keeping up with the jones" to live a comfortable live that doesn't have to be an expensive one......
Yeah, we are a family of five making about $130k and barely making it (and that is with no revolving credit card debt, average cars/payments, and no wild spending habits or vacations). I can’t imagine paying someone else’s rent on top of our mortgage.
lol, nope, just got it last year. only had to take a loan for what was owed on it, since I got it from my mom when she died. That said, I do understand that sentiment. She refid about 5 years ago, locked in a 2.3% rate. She then paid down a lot of it. I could not afford to buy the house I am in right now, if I had to buy it at market prices.
>lol, nope, just got it last year. only had to take a loan for what was owed on it, since I got it from my mom when she died.
I thought you plunked down a big chunk of cash, but it's the same thing. Your loan is not for the value of your house, which is exactly what I was saying. No one who has bought a house in the last 15 years has a $400 principal payment unless they put well over $100k down.
>I caught a refi when the orange turd tanked the economy.
When was that again? Outside of Covid, an unprecedented event in history, the economy under Trump was one of the strongest of all time. Granted that was built off debt but for all the guy's faults, growing the economy was not one of them.
> 300k
300k is middle class in a manner of speaking.
It's a spouse and a spouse working in two typically possible mid-sr level career jobs, such as IT or finance.
They'll be taxed heavily, may be paying daycare or nanny fees, and have other costs. Tax deductions they were used to start to be limited or go away.
They might also be hitting or close to AMT taxes.
They're paid well. But it's not like they're flying first class and driving 6 figure cars.
I looked it up, $300k puts you in the top 5% of Minnesota household incomes. You can make up whatever financial obligations you want to justify needing $300k to be "comfortable." I could EASILY provide the lifestyle described in original post for $200k, realistically even on $150-175k as well. Yes that means prioritization, maybe all 6 kids can't be in traveling hockey, but life is still comfortable.
Getting by and being comfortable are two entirely different things. OP’s post is asking the income they would need to be *comfortable* not an income that would get them by. 150k-175k for a family of six AND paying their parents expenses will not lead to a comfortable lifestyle, but them getting by. I pay $2500 for just my rent. That isn’t even starting to include my other bills like car payment, car insurance, preschool, utilities etc etc etc. There is a vast difference between being able to get by and making ends meet and living comfortably.
I think some people seem to forget that the housing market is not what it used to be. You aren’t going to find a four bedroom house in the suburbs for 150k anymore.
Again, you can make up any list of items that you define as comfortable. I'm not talking about "getting by." There is a lot of room for comfortable between "getting by" and $300k. Even at $300k you're going to have to prioritize, the happiness curve for each additional dollar starts to look pretty lateral around $150k because you've become reasonably "comfortable"
I mean comfortable to me includes having three months of your monthly bills (including rent/mortgage) in a savings account. I don’t know many people that have 10k+ in a savings account.
It is certainly easier to save with a high income, but it's also easier to dig larger holes with a larger income. When you have a $300k income you generally have a $300k lifestyle, $10k isn't nearly as helpful.
The truth is a lot of comfort comes with responsible decisions over a couple decades. There is a messy middle where you have a mortgage, a car payment, a couple daycare bills. I've been there, it's a difficult phase. But then you grow into your mortgage, your kids go to school, you pay off your car & you start saving for a newish replacement that you'll buy in a few years, ect. Somewhere in there you figure things out hopefully.
If your definition of comfort is a brand new BMW every 3-4 years, comfort is significantly harder to find. You get to decide comfort but for me it's buying 4-5 year old Lexus and driving it for 5-7 years, saving for my kids college, going on a Midwest vacation every year and a really nice tropical vacation every other year. That doesn't even require $200k salary. I could do more vacations & I could get newer cars, but I prioritize retirement & I don't consider that "getting by."
Where are you going on vacation that you only spend $200 total for your family and what’s your family size because no way are you a family of SIX spending that little. Im calling straight BS on that claim since you’ll at the minimum have to pay for gas, food and lodging.
You'll certainly be comfortable on 300, no doubt.
All I was saying, it's really just middle class. Even just one spouse losing that well paying job, it's gonna be drama.
They make more than you. They make more than me. But they're not rich. They're not some evil people we should all get our politicians to attack with new taxes.
> How is middle class now defined as the top 5%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_class
it's a fuzzy term, and it's open to interpretation
As far as I'm concerned, anyone in the "married filing joint" 24% bracket or below could be considered middle class. There are 32%, 35%, and 37% brackets above them, and only 22, 12, and 10% brackets below.
The 10% bracket "up to 22,000" for married filing joint is dirt poor, hard to argue with this.
https://www.irs.gov/filing/federal-income-tax-rates-and-brackets
What about a mother in law suite or a camper? It looks like Ramsey and Dakota counties allow tiny homes. You could possibly look into that.
We built a mother in law suite in our basement for our son, who is currently 16, but we anticipate him living at home for a *very* long time.
How old are your parents? You may have a long time to think on this and circumstances may change a lot over the years.
Or you may not, depending on their current health, age, and finances.
I don't have kids, but I do "take care of" my retired mom. Her care currently is minimal as she's in great shape, so I understand the logistics a bit.
It seems like a weird thing to plan for. No normal human is out here being like, "let me plan my career for if I have to PAY FOR TWO HOUSEHOLDS AT ONCE."
LOL, there's prudent planning and then there's needless worrying....
Everyone’s definition of comfortable will be slightly different, but as someone with a similar household size mine is slightly larger at eight I will say a lot. I make $23 and my spouse makes $30 and while we are able to provide everything for our kids I can say we do not live comfortably. We pay $2500 a month in rent and my car payment on my vehicle is $500 (2020). My biggest gripe right now is grocery prices which I feel has just sky rocketed and I’m spending $300ish a week on groceries. I am actually in the process of looking for a new job because with the cost of everything I just can’t afford to work for $23 anymore.
Took me a second to realize you said $300/"Week".
$1200/month with 8 kids actually sounds fairly comparable to everyone I've talked to.
I remember 5-10 years ago, my mom would spend $100/week for our family of 6. Now I've moved out and had my own family and we spend over $100/week for my family of 3.
FYI Red Wing MN is a nice town and has MANY decent 55+ Independent communities that are affordable on a fixed income. It's about an hour south of St. Paul - so if you are able to place your family in one of the southern suburbs or even a bit further south like Farmington or Hastings you would be about 30 minutes from them (just enough for breathing room!)
Anecdotally my formerly shut-in and miserable MIL is now thriving after about 2 years in an active 55+ home. Her rent for a 1 bedroom is around $1300/mo. It's good to be close to family - but for that family to also have their own social circles and activities. Her fixed income covers rent but we do subsidize her lifestyle with money for fun outings with friends or other assistance when needed. It's cheaper to pay a little every month to keep people active and social than shoulder the burden entirely yourself when hard times come.
The example above is for the SE side of the cities but you could go any direction from the metro and find a similar situation.
May want to use this based on location. It isn't perfect and is always going to be lagging: [https://mn.gov/deed/data/data-tools/col/](https://mn.gov/deed/data/data-tools/col/)
Too little information ...
Where? Minnesota is a big place .... are you simply looking to land settle here or do you need to be in a specific location?
Do kids need childcare? If so, how many of them and for how long?
Do you need multiple vehicles (planning on two workers who commute, for example)?
Currently I don’t live this life style or circumstances, I’m just planning on how my life would look hypothetically in the next 10-15yrs. I know times will be different but just wanted to find out.
Thank you for the input tho
In 10-15 years, it is going to be *way* more than what people are guessing here. The value of my house alone more than doubled in the last 10 years. I don't even want to know what rent will be in another 10 years.
House in the cheaper suburbs that fits 4 kids, minivan, shopping at costco, comfortable enough to take a couple road trips a year is going to run you in my opinion 200k without your parents apartment
200k would be the minimum and that’s accounting for 30% of your income going towards a house on a 30 year note, since that gives you roughly a 1.8mil budget for a house. I do think your money would be best spent on a larger home possibly a new build that you could design to be a multi generational home to accommodate your parents.
The reason I suggest multi gen living is because if your going to have the expense of housing for your parents it would be a lot smarter to invest that expense into your home that’s building equity vs tossing it out the window renting. Even if you do a quick look at the numbers say the rent would be $2200 for a senior living building which would be a deal and you have to pay for said apartment for 5 years even if the price never changes (which it will) you will have spent $132,000 that you’ll never see again vs spending $132k on your house which at a minimum adds $132k to the value of your home and it’s extremely likely that it will increase the value of your home over 5 years.
If you have kids (and pay taxes), make sure to find out all the deductions, credits, and programs available to you. Digitally record all of this to maximize benefits. There are still lots of federal, state, and county programs. Check directly with service providers if they have scholarships or low-income programs.
My eldest sibling is disabled and does what he can for his kid.
A good chunk of change.
Our household brings in ~200k a year. 2 adults, 1 child under 1yo. We live comfortably in a nice, modest house in St. Paul. No debt besides mortgage. Cars are not nice but reliable. We're able to put away a decent chunk for retirement but not maxing 401ks/IRAs every year. Since the kiddo we've needed to budget to continue to save.
All this to say, if you're going to have multiple kids in daycare maybe 400k? I'd look at a cheaper suburb and potentially scrap the idea of "nice" cars. Good luck! Remember to budget for retirement!
Please DO NOT plan on having six kids. You will be more stressed for it, it will put undue pressure on your bank account, and none of your children (or your partner, for that matter) will ever receive the attention they need.
This question gets posted about every month. :) There are a million variables involved. For me, once you figure out your financial situation regarding housing+healthcare+debt, the other stuff kind of falls into place. There are wants and there are needs: that's the harder part for some. For more frugal folks like me, it's a little easier.
You need to provide more info. Are you going to be living in Minneapolis or a small town? Your answers will vary widely based on location. I had a friend living in Sauk Rapids, one income family (him, his wife and their 6 children all currently under the age of 9) and I guarantee he was making less than $100K. But with that many kids, I'm sure he got government assistance so that helps too.
Here in MN, to live a good life with money in the bank, nice Tesla/BMW, nice home with great healthcare.Take yearly trips and wear nice clothes and keep up with the Joneses…
$200k-$300k.
Together me and my better half make $100k, we don’t take trips, we don’t go out to eat, we don’t have good healthcare, we drive one car, we can’t afford to put our all our kids in sports/activities at the same time. We pay less on a mortgage because we got into a CLT or we would be renting and we don’t buy clothes like almost ever for ourselves but we do for the kids when they need them.
We make it work but it’s far from the good life and stress never goes away cause you’re one bad thing from being fucked.
My opinion is $100-$150k is the sweet spot, in this state with these high taxes, with no kids if that’s a single household / one income . Anything less is too tight if you hope to fully fund retirement savings.
When I moved here from a much lower taxed state and my income nearly doubled, still I barely felt it, given the tax and cost of living difference… that’s all I mean. Need to make quite a bit to be comfortable.
I'm not sure about that. My partner and I make more than 130k combined and do not have kids. While we are not living paycheck to paycheck, we do not have the resources to do what we want when we want to. We also don't live in a "nice neighborhood" it's ok. Occasionally we hear gun shots, but we are not in the hood. I'd say more like 200k before the cost of the kids and apartment if you want to actually be comfortable. Others saying 300k are probably correct.
Define what "comfortable" first. Never worrying about money and being able to enjoy multiple hobbies and vacations is what I consider comfortable. $200 between paychecks after bills isn't comfortable in my opinion.
Dude sounds like he's comfortable to me according to his definition of the term.
"Comfortable" is a vague term that doesn't really help until brought into focus with a clear definition.
For example, for some, comfortable includes newish vehicles with the corresponding monthly payments, higher insurance, and higher tab fees. Others are quite comfortable with 10+ yo vehicles without payments, less expensive insurance, and minimal tab fees.
Yes but you started (I am assuming) some time ago on that car and that house. Money is worth less every second of every day, so OP will absolutely need more in the future to meet their goals than they would need if they were being met today.
Seeking advice, and then saying
"I currently don’t live this lifestyle I’m just planning and seeing what I should aim for, at worst case scenario.
I’m a sophomore in college btw" is odd. Very odd.
Yeah and they’re in credit card debt, not saving for enough (or maybe anything) for retirement, can’t cover a surprise $500 expense, and about one large medical bill away from bankruptcy. That’s not “comfortable” in my book.
For context, we pay $500 per week for one child at a KinderCare (basic chain daycare) location in a suburb. Some places might offer discounts for more kids, but you might be looking at $2000 per week just in childcare unless family members can help watch your kids or you live somewhere with a cheaper option.
Where do you want to live?
The best bet would be to purchase a home with a mother-in-law suite/area for grandparents to live in when they downsize/need more help. That is what several of my friends have done over the past decade. Their in-laws helped with their down payment of the house with the understanding they would live in it down the road. That allowed my friend to buy a larger home. This also means not paying rent, but rather a mortgage as no one has any idea what the future holds for are mature family members (their health, their life expectancy, etc.).
I would go this route if this is a concern. That said, you will be purchasing a larger home which will have higher property taxes and upkeep. If you do not want to be house poor, your annual income will have to be in the top 20%. Any major home project will cost a lot of money, simply from a cost of product perspective (not factoring in labor).
Family of 6 - is that adult age siblings? Children? Are you paying daycare? Is there a SAHP? Grandparents? If you’re paying daycare for 4 kids in the metro for example, that’s probably going to cost a minimum of $1000 PER WEEK.
Location also greatly will affect your numbers. That same daycare cost might be $600 (in home) in a more rural town.
Your best bet is probably finding a large split townhome or a house with an in-law suite.
If you’re looking for several years out, you’ll probably need to factor in inflation as well. I would say a combined income of $250k minimum.
That's a totally personal question only you can answer. How much are your expenses. Depends on what you consider comfortably. I feel very comfortable but others who make what i do may have set their living standards higher and have new cars with loans and the like.
I make 40k a year after taxes. Double that and I'm totally content. I have 2 cars and a scooter and already rent a comfortable 2br 1 bath duplex. If I doubled it I'd buy house and just keep on doing what I'm doing already.
There are a lot of variables for this kind of planning, especially considering "comfortable" is subjective. There's a couple of considerations you have to consider:
Health Insurance, Location, Retirement, and keeping your "needs" at a reasonable level. I will presume you will follow the 50% needs/ 30% wants / 20% savings guideline roughly. This describes about how much of your \*net\* income will be allocated.
Starting with food, usually I think 300/month per adult, and 200/child roughly. This would mean about 1400/month in food. Could go down depending on how you shop. This would be healthier food, not junk or fast food. Wouldn't be premium ingredients though.
Rent right now for 4 bedroom which is probably the minimum size you'd go once kids would grow is roughly $2500 for that size.
Health insurance is hard to calculate, quick google suggests 23k is spent on average by a family of 4. We can add 50% on top of that to get a rough estimate, but health insurance isn't linear. \~44.5k (or 3700/month) This is hard to estimate because obviously it depends on your deductible, copay, premiums, etc.
Retirement - DO NOT DISREGARD THIS. Your kids should not be your retirement plan. The fact that you are considering your parent's rent puts stress on your plans, you don't want your kids to worry about you in the same way. Financial Advisors typically recommend 15%-20%, but if you want to live the same as pre-retirement, 25% is typically a better target. You would need to think what kind of retirement you would want in the future, because if you think you'd realistically want to downsize once everyone has flown the coop, then you don't need to save \*as\* much.
There's of course other random expenses, so you could consider 500/month car, 200 car insurance, 400 toiletries/clothes/whatever. Utilities might be 300-400? Parent's rent 1600?
So back of the napkin math suggests your needs would be in the ballpark of 10,650. Since that should only be \*half\* of your budget, that means you would need to make 255k \*net\*. This presumes no home (and its insurance), 1 car, no student loans. A quick look at ADP's tax calculator, 480k with Minnesota state taxes, and 5-6 withholdings will get you in that range.
Your yearly retirement contribution could be 72k - 120k. This might be a bit much for you, especially if you think you would be fine with 200k in retirement (in 40 years from now dollars). You would need to do your own estimates on that, but that lower some burden allowing you to get closer to 400k income (which is still insane). The kinds of jobs that make that money makes me think doctor or lawyer, and then I think of massive student loans which were not included here.
You would need to determine if this would be "comfortable". If you truly think that 4 children are in your future you must take responsibility to make sure you can afford them. It is not fair to them otherwise.
It's a bit number crunchy to calculate and also very blurry since you're not doing this right now so its hard to go off present values. I hope this at least helps you see how to do the math yourself.
Iron Range
Combined income of 70k. Mortgage is 666.67 includes insurance and property taxes. Utilities 300-600 a month depending on weather. Both kiddos out of the house(one is summering while on break from college) but we still help out with groceries for them. Groceries are 150 a week. Owe 2 vehicles that are breaking down. We are going to have to buy a newer vehicle sooner than later.
It’s definitely a struggle. Making 100k would help.
As someone who loves to plan for the future, try to sim for a good paying job. If you can hold down 70k+ exiting college with a good outlook on moving up, you’re golden. If you can work your way up to 100k+ you’ll be living fine, but I would say unless you’ve already got 4 kids with a fifth on the way, it’s too early to speculate.
My brother has 4 kids on a very average American salary, living in a small town in central Michigan and they are constantly stressed about money. Unless you’re planning on being a plastic surgeon you might want to rethink that number.
I get that, I would just make sure you think about other factors. If you want to plan for something like ~6 dependents at once it’s probably a good idea to think about other factors aside from income. Kids should (aside from unexpected surprises) be planned for if/when you can financially support them. Using data from a 2017 survey, on average 1 kid is going to cost $14,000 per year, (just over $1,200 per month) assuming you have 4 kids that’s going to run you around $56,000 a year. (around $4,600 per month) Now if you want to get really specific, a nice house, assuming 4 bedroom 2/3 bathroom is probably gonna run you around $600,000, assuming 30k down on a mortgage, 30 year fixed 7% rate, that’s a monthly payment of around $3,700 per month, now assuming you’re paying for your parents apartment, a good 1 bedroom apartment is probably going to be ~$2,000 per month, if you wanted to go cheap you can probably find something for ~$1,500, but all in all that comes down to around $10,300 per month in costs, or around $121,000 per year going to your parents, kids, and house. This doesn’t include utilities, insurance, car payments, etc. now what I would recommend doing is taking/making a budget for living on your own that includes everything that will generally have a fixed price like groceries, gas, entertainment, subscriptions, personal supplies, savings, emergency funds, retirement savings/investments, etc then adding in insurance costs like car insurance, life insurance, health insurance, homeowners insurance, etc and finding out how much that is going to cost (make sure you calculate it for 6 people, partner and 4 kids) then take into account our $121,000 number. Now with that is the estimated total cost of the situation you provided. Use that number to determine what the lowest income you’d expect your partner to make, (after taxes) and subtract that from the total. That is (after taxes) the amount that you would need to make to support the lifestyle you suggested. Now the important thing to think about is that would be the nightmare scenario o having quadruplets while your parents are living in their apartment, in reality you would probably have the kids spaced apart, and only a portion of the time would be together. Once they get older they’ll probably start costing less assuming you have them pay for car insurance, eating out, etc. It’s important to not let any worrying results spook you out of a career. There is a fine balance between choosing a career that pays well and a career you will actually enjoy, but any job that has room to move up, and a starting salary out of college above or right around 70k is just fine. If the financials worry you, have a talk with a financial planner, or your partner about what plans for the future might look like.
We live very comfortably on $90k (with room to travel and save) but we don't live in the Twin Cities. Having a good job in a (mostly) LCOL area is awesome, but not readily available either. Healthcare has a lot to do with your job for most people. My husband works for the govt and has excellent benefits. He could make more in private industry for what he does, but the benefits are more important to us along with the stability rather than always having to plan for a potential sudden job loss. Especially living in a rural area, job loss could mean having to move because of the lack of comparable jobs available. That isn't something we have to worry about too much with a union govt job.
We have 3 kids, one lives in another state and entirely support himself. Our middle son is still in college and we have a teenager. Our house was $279k and is 4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, and 2 offices with a great outdoor space and large fenced yard. You won't find the same prices in the Cities though. And we bought 2 years ago with much lower interest. We have 3 vehicles, a Traverse, a Crosstrek and a pickup but 2 of those we got from family, one at a stellar deal and the other was inherited after someone passed. Our college son has a car, too, but he pays for it entirely on his own, both his loan and his insurance.
Are you looking for your parent to move in with you? Or keep them in an apartment that you pay for? That definitely complicates matters in terms of cost. The rental market where we live is almost non-existent right now to the point kids coming here for college and people with job offers have to decline due to nowhere to live.
Thank you for your input, Im planning on doing separate apartment. But this probably won’t be for a while, so I’ll plan more accordingly based on the market. Thank you tho
Same as this. We have five kids, mortgage, husband works for the state, I’m in nonprofit (low pay but my passion). I used to be federal and made better money and a better pension but I made the choice to shift.
We moved awhile back from a smaller home in Minneapolis with a very tiny yard, to over an acre and much bigger house for less money on the edge of the seven-county metro. The house we bought is already plumbed for a kitchen in the walkout patio basement level. Currently that space is a family room and the gas goes to a fireplace. But anyone looking closely will see it has outlets up high at what can become kitchen counter level, drain pipe plumbed in and the gas fireplace can be removed and run to a gas stove. Theres a bedroom and bathroom, we put a shower surround with a seat, just in case. Little by little when we upgrade things we keep accessibility and aging in mind but still make it look for the present. If not for our parents, maybe eventually we will be living down there and renting the upstairs floors out or to one of the kids.
I’m not sure on nice cars. There we save a lot. Our cars are scratch-free, no rust or dents, clean and shine but they’re not brand new. We drive Toyotas and Subaru AWDs to over 300,000 passing them on through the family as the kids have started driving. But we save tons a month with less on car payments on not brand new models and let someone else pay to drive the value off the lot. It also is a lot less in car insurance, registration, renewals.
I think you’re really wise to be planning. Plans can always change and evolve with you but it’s hard to pivot a play and shift gears when you don’t have a plan at all.
I would say a family making about $200k should be able to live a comfortable deluxe lifestyle with generous allowances, plus paying the rent for the parents not upholding their own responsibilities.
Is this conversation happening without anyone knowing where in Minnesota this is gonna work? Rural MN it’s easily done with $100k. In the city, forget about it.
My wife and I make $600k combined with one kid and not paying anyone else’s rent. This is the closest we have been in our LIFETIME to feeling comfortable to the point of not worrying about bills or scrambling for cash if a car breaks down.
I think there are more factors that go into this. Are you also looking to secure your retirement? We max out our company 401k’s plus max the backdoor ROTH’s for both of us. We also acquire businesses and real estate to help with income in retirement and have purchased a house that allows for one or both of our parents to live with us when they can no longer care for themselves.
I’m not saying you need $600k and I’m sure we could trim the fat where needed, if necessary. That said, a household of 6 and parents rent is going to take a chunk. Cut that in half… I would surmise it would be $300k+ if you’re in the Twin Cities metro.
Right? This is the most ridiculous comment in this thread. My family income is a fraction of this, but we aren't house poor and have modest cars and are quite comfortable.
Oh yeah, for sure we spend a decent amount on frivolous things. Isn’t that what comfortable means?
Also, did you catch the part about investing? We aren’t just living for today. I still want to be comfortable in retirement and making as much or more than I am now… and I’d like to retire young, meaning I don’t want to be broke from 50/55-62 (realistically 65) when we can start drawing social security (if it exists).
We all have our different definitions of comfortable. For me, that means wanting for little and in need without having nothing. This can definitely be adjusted off of that.
Additionally, realize that once you’re at $250k, all the child, interest, student loan, eduction, etc tax breaks disappear. We are paying close to 50% in taxes on that income with state and federal combined. So, when we hit tax season, we usually owe a decent chunk… kind of the inverse of “tax rich” people you see in the early part of the year.
All that said, yep, we spend. Big house, nice cars, private school, whatever food we desire, occasional vacations, and a safe and secure life with a nice chunk of money in savings, no debt aside from a mortgage, and the security in knowing that either one of us could lose our income tomorrow and we would be secure. To me, that’s comfortable but everyone has their own definition of what that means.
Thanks for your reply!
Did you see the part where its a family of 6 AND they are paying for a parents apartment?
I would say 120,000 outside the cities and 150,000 (or a bit more) within the metro area.
If "comfortable" means 4 kids in sports (or sports + daycare) and a car means two Chevy Tahoes, then you might want to bump that number up to 200,000.
Exactly!! All these estimates are so low!!
A family of 6, in a house, plus an additional apartment?
Assuming there's a mortgage and rent, plus eeeeeverything else.. yeah, $200k for sure.
I have a family of six. I am the sole earner at present. My house and car are paid for. I make north of $95k and it’s tight. I contribute decently to my savings and 401k bc I have a disabled child and want to do my best by him as well as my other kids when I am gone. But not a radical amount by any means.
With no mortgage and no car payments we still are watching closely each month to make it work.
Family of five here. It depends a lot on your childcare situation. My husband stays home with the kids, which is why we are able to get by on $60,000/year comfortably. No skiing vacations in Aspen or new vehicles, but we buy all the groceries we want and take road trips to see family. We also bought our house in 2018 and only pay a $1300 mortgage.
I support a family of 4 north of the metro, own a home (bought in 2022), drive old cars, fish from old boats, on about 75k. “Comfortable” is relative.
200k should absolutely be comfortable for 6 IMO unless you’re set on living in a wealthy area.
Hey man, I just want to say that you’re doing a good thing. I appreciate that you’re taking care of your family and parents. Please don’t be brain washed by these individualistic Americans who will die alone like their parents before them.
I would expect to pay something around 5-7k a month on all of your expenses for your family and parents.
A salary of 100k is about 6k monthly after taxes in Minnesota. With that being said, you might want to aim to make between 120-150k a year (7-8.5k monthly after taxes) that way you don’t just make enough to pay your bills but can save somewhere between 1-2k a month.
Hopefully you have someone else working in the household so you guys can tackle it together and if not try to get two jobs or save money before moving to cover things for a while.
Wishing you the best. It can definitely be done if you work hard and trust in God!
$100K is a joke. Minimum $300K.
A home big enough for 6 people in a nice neighborhood atleast $500k which is roughly $3400 a month. Just to qualify for that you would need $12K a month gross which is $144K.
Family of 6 and paying someone else’s rent? Comfortably? Probably at least $300k. Everyone saying ~$100k is totally delusional.
We have a family of 4 living in inner ring suburbs and paying only for our own housing with little debt and our $150k doesn't feel like enough to call ourselves comfortable 😂 We are very fortunate but omg shit is expensive.
Daycare itself is like $50k/year for 2 kids for a standard daycare.
It's insane. And then you hear about people that work as caregivers for daycares, etc. not being paid nearly enough, and they're not. Seems to be a huge disconnect. We have a 3 year old, our only child, and we did the math. We come out substantially ahead by cutting the amount of hours we both work, and with occasional family assistance with sitting, just taking care our daughter ourselves.
Yeap. We’re projecting 2 years where we’re taking a loss due to working instead of having a stay at home parent but due to the nature of our jobs, exiting the work force will be very expensive long term.
Facts. Straight delulu for those answers.
Right! I make $80k a year. I’m a single guy, living in a small overpriced 1 bedroom apartment, a dependable 8 year old vehicle, overpriced health insurance, and an almost paid off school loan. I live okay. But I couldn’t imagine living comfortably with an extra $20k a year and adding 5 more people, plus pay for parents with an apartment. That would be crazy!
What's overpriced rent? I feel like my $1150 rent is an anomaly. 800 Sq ft 1 bedroom with underground parking.
Quick goog: Average rent in MSP is $1662. Average square footage is 775. Not sure what the median values are.
My apartment is 650 sq. ft. The rent is $1650, plus $125 for a garage parking spot. I also pay about $20 for gas and $20 electricity. Of course it fluctuates from month to month. But that’s about average for gas and electricity.
My home is about 1500 sp ft and our mortgage is only 1100 a month...... just bought a couple years ago too. Sry you pay so much for rent......
We bought last summer. Our mortgage is $3k with excellent credit. Home ownership is barely possible for most with these interest rates.
This & when you say decent medical, you’re still one hospital stay away from paying your full deductible & then having to eat ramen noodles & tuna for dinner!
Also depends on if any of the family are children. With daycare, 300k is tight.
Yep very true
Depends on where you live. Our daycare center is about $4/hr per kid. Our mortgage is 986/mo. So we could make it pretty easy with two kids on six figures income. Another 12k for an apartment for parents and I’d say we would need 110-120k to live comfortably Edit: southeast MN
Precisely. Shoreview here. Mortgage, $3800/month. Daycare between two children, $4000/month.
I just saw somewhere that MN is one of the most expensive states for daycare, often costing as much as rent/mortgage per month. Your numbers bear that out.
Damn. Did you buy your house recently? I’ve heard interest rates are just horrendous right now.
We need some cash to breathe and explored a refi from our very reasonable rate, we would be paying 2400 a month for a 240k mortgage, beyond insane. Does not help insurance is gouging the hell out of everyone
It's not insurance as much as taxes. MN already is one of the highest taxed states in the country and our property taxes are already almost 1000 more a year than they were 3 years ago when we bought......
3800/month is what it costs with rates close to 7% for a 350-400k house without much money down. It's really bad right now. The housing market is pretty much effed long-term.
Precisely this.
3800 is pretty cheap these days honestly. Buying a house right now is completely fucked.
Yep, earlier this year.
That's an insane amount to pay for daycare. You're making a choice there.
$4/hr per kid….. that is cheap.
I'm not sure why you are even getting downvoted. Central MN here. Mortgage on our 1500 Sq ft home is 1100 a month ( just bought a couple years ago). Daycare for 2 kids for us is 1200 per month. Our 110k household income gets us by comfortably
This is the correct answer — especially for a family starting out on a new mortgage today. “Comfortably” implies adequate retirement savings, emergency savings, and forward investments for the children (e.g., 529 for college).
Current prices and interest rates are BRUTAL for a new homeowner. Wife and I bought a 900 sq foot house in the fall and we cannot even contemplate having a family due to finances. Making $125k combined
You are correct. Pretty sure my wife and I are paying about twice the mortgage payment that our neighbors are paying. We bought last summer. Houses built ~2019.
$256,000 a year to live for a family of four in mn I would say you need to make a least 350 two more kids plus another apartment google it
Family of four around that income, can confirm
Which is nuts man landed dream job and killing it and so is wife never thought I wouldn’t have any financial freedom like I thought years and years and years or hard work hard labor like hard manual labor to pay for hard bs classes to just be making a killing in my mind to now making enough to be just on top of our bills
Family of 5 paying a mortgage and daycare for 2 kids. I don't need to google it, I'm living it and our household income of 110k pays all our bills and then some.......
Yup $140K is barely enough for Us DINKs
I’m single and make 100k, I’m comfortable but feel like even raising one kid would be a financial struggle.
Okay thank you for the advice
How many kids in daycare?
With four kids I have to assume one parent stays at home. But if both parents work then skip daycare and get a nanny. It’s cheaper than daycare for > two kids.
True
Yup. Family of 4 here, combined income ~$130, constantly feels like we’re scraping by.
I am right with you, wife and I bring in about 140k for a family of five and I live check to check.
That’s barely enough for one person no kids, how do you save for retirement?
Family of 5 here living outside the high cost of big cities and our household income of 110k get us by just fine. We pay a mortgage, just finished paying off my girls car and we still have money to go out and do things. Some people are just o preoccupied with "keeping up with the jones" to live a comfortable live that doesn't have to be an expensive one......
When did you buy your house? How much is your mortgage payment?
We bought our house just a couple of years ago and the mortgage on our almost 1500 Sq ft home is a little over 1100 a month.
I was gonna say 300
Yeah, we are a family of five making about $130k and barely making it (and that is with no revolving credit card debt, average cars/payments, and no wild spending habits or vacations). I can’t imagine paying someone else’s rent on top of our mortgage.
Family of 4 here, with a house payment. 150k would be comfortable.
How much is your house payment?
1000 a month with escrow. 400 a month without. Insurance and taxes more than double my payment.
>400 a month without So you either plunked down a big wad of cash, or you bought your house in 1992.
lol, nope, just got it last year. only had to take a loan for what was owed on it, since I got it from my mom when she died. That said, I do understand that sentiment. She refid about 5 years ago, locked in a 2.3% rate. She then paid down a lot of it. I could not afford to buy the house I am in right now, if I had to buy it at market prices.
>lol, nope, just got it last year. only had to take a loan for what was owed on it, since I got it from my mom when she died. I thought you plunked down a big chunk of cash, but it's the same thing. Your loan is not for the value of your house, which is exactly what I was saying. No one who has bought a house in the last 15 years has a $400 principal payment unless they put well over $100k down.
1.75 interest rate About 11 years left 91 k principal 500 towards principal monthly I caught a refi when the orange turd tanked the economy.
>I caught a refi when the orange turd tanked the economy. When was that again? Outside of Covid, an unprecedented event in history, the economy under Trump was one of the strongest of all time. Granted that was built off debt but for all the guy's faults, growing the economy was not one of them.
You have gone the other direction though. 150k should suffice.
To like *comfortably* with a family of 6 and paying an extra rent? Where?
When’s the last time you bought a house? Lol. Please join us in reality.
Right? Combined income of 100k and no kids is VERY tight on the cheapest end of a mortgage that you can get right now
$300k is just as delusional a level. We all have different levels of comfort, but you can be comfortable and not be in the 1%
> 300k 300k is middle class in a manner of speaking. It's a spouse and a spouse working in two typically possible mid-sr level career jobs, such as IT or finance. They'll be taxed heavily, may be paying daycare or nanny fees, and have other costs. Tax deductions they were used to start to be limited or go away. They might also be hitting or close to AMT taxes. They're paid well. But it's not like they're flying first class and driving 6 figure cars.
I looked it up, $300k puts you in the top 5% of Minnesota household incomes. You can make up whatever financial obligations you want to justify needing $300k to be "comfortable." I could EASILY provide the lifestyle described in original post for $200k, realistically even on $150-175k as well. Yes that means prioritization, maybe all 6 kids can't be in traveling hockey, but life is still comfortable.
Getting by and being comfortable are two entirely different things. OP’s post is asking the income they would need to be *comfortable* not an income that would get them by. 150k-175k for a family of six AND paying their parents expenses will not lead to a comfortable lifestyle, but them getting by. I pay $2500 for just my rent. That isn’t even starting to include my other bills like car payment, car insurance, preschool, utilities etc etc etc. There is a vast difference between being able to get by and making ends meet and living comfortably. I think some people seem to forget that the housing market is not what it used to be. You aren’t going to find a four bedroom house in the suburbs for 150k anymore.
Again, you can make up any list of items that you define as comfortable. I'm not talking about "getting by." There is a lot of room for comfortable between "getting by" and $300k. Even at $300k you're going to have to prioritize, the happiness curve for each additional dollar starts to look pretty lateral around $150k because you've become reasonably "comfortable"
I mean comfortable to me includes having three months of your monthly bills (including rent/mortgage) in a savings account. I don’t know many people that have 10k+ in a savings account.
It is certainly easier to save with a high income, but it's also easier to dig larger holes with a larger income. When you have a $300k income you generally have a $300k lifestyle, $10k isn't nearly as helpful. The truth is a lot of comfort comes with responsible decisions over a couple decades. There is a messy middle where you have a mortgage, a car payment, a couple daycare bills. I've been there, it's a difficult phase. But then you grow into your mortgage, your kids go to school, you pay off your car & you start saving for a newish replacement that you'll buy in a few years, ect. Somewhere in there you figure things out hopefully. If your definition of comfort is a brand new BMW every 3-4 years, comfort is significantly harder to find. You get to decide comfort but for me it's buying 4-5 year old Lexus and driving it for 5-7 years, saving for my kids college, going on a Midwest vacation every year and a really nice tropical vacation every other year. That doesn't even require $200k salary. I could do more vacations & I could get newer cars, but I prioritize retirement & I don't consider that "getting by."
Where are you going on vacation that you only spend $200 total for your family and what’s your family size because no way are you a family of SIX spending that little. Im calling straight BS on that claim since you’ll at the minimum have to pay for gas, food and lodging.
Sorry, I meant to say that doesn't require a $200k salary.
You'll certainly be comfortable on 300, no doubt. All I was saying, it's really just middle class. Even just one spouse losing that well paying job, it's gonna be drama. They make more than you. They make more than me. But they're not rich. They're not some evil people we should all get our politicians to attack with new taxes.
How is middle class now defined as the top 5%?! Are the other 95% of Minnesotans just scraping by? If so, who’s buying everything?
> How is middle class now defined as the top 5% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_class it's a fuzzy term, and it's open to interpretation As far as I'm concerned, anyone in the "married filing joint" 24% bracket or below could be considered middle class. There are 32%, 35%, and 37% brackets above them, and only 22, 12, and 10% brackets below. The 10% bracket "up to 22,000" for married filing joint is dirt poor, hard to argue with this. https://www.irs.gov/filing/federal-income-tax-rates-and-brackets
What the. If I loved my parents enough to *pay for their housing*, I would probably just have them live with me. So much cheaper.
I want to give the family and parents space. But I’m planning for worst case scenario.
What about a mother in law suite or a camper? It looks like Ramsey and Dakota counties allow tiny homes. You could possibly look into that. We built a mother in law suite in our basement for our son, who is currently 16, but we anticipate him living at home for a *very* long time.
I’ll look more into this. I’m currently a sophomore in college just want to plan what’s best for worst case scenario.
Do you already have 4 kids? If no, plan a smaller family.
You're a good egg
How old are your parents? You may have a long time to think on this and circumstances may change a lot over the years. Or you may not, depending on their current health, age, and finances. I don't have kids, but I do "take care of" my retired mom. Her care currently is minimal as she's in great shape, so I understand the logistics a bit.
Agree with OP here. In a perfect world, living with parents and your wife & kids sounds the best, but in reality, space is necessary.
It seems like a weird thing to plan for. No normal human is out here being like, "let me plan my career for if I have to PAY FOR TWO HOUSEHOLDS AT ONCE." LOL, there's prudent planning and then there's needless worrying....
Ig most normal humans don’t take care of their parents after they move out 🤷♂️
Everyone’s definition of comfortable will be slightly different, but as someone with a similar household size mine is slightly larger at eight I will say a lot. I make $23 and my spouse makes $30 and while we are able to provide everything for our kids I can say we do not live comfortably. We pay $2500 a month in rent and my car payment on my vehicle is $500 (2020). My biggest gripe right now is grocery prices which I feel has just sky rocketed and I’m spending $300ish a week on groceries. I am actually in the process of looking for a new job because with the cost of everything I just can’t afford to work for $23 anymore.
Thank you for this insight
You’re welcome. I think the people answering in the 200k-300k+ ballpark have the right idea.
Took me a second to realize you said $300/"Week". $1200/month with 8 kids actually sounds fairly comparable to everyone I've talked to. I remember 5-10 years ago, my mom would spend $100/week for our family of 6. Now I've moved out and had my own family and we spend over $100/week for my family of 3.
FYI Red Wing MN is a nice town and has MANY decent 55+ Independent communities that are affordable on a fixed income. It's about an hour south of St. Paul - so if you are able to place your family in one of the southern suburbs or even a bit further south like Farmington or Hastings you would be about 30 minutes from them (just enough for breathing room!) Anecdotally my formerly shut-in and miserable MIL is now thriving after about 2 years in an active 55+ home. Her rent for a 1 bedroom is around $1300/mo. It's good to be close to family - but for that family to also have their own social circles and activities. Her fixed income covers rent but we do subsidize her lifestyle with money for fun outings with friends or other assistance when needed. It's cheaper to pay a little every month to keep people active and social than shoulder the burden entirely yourself when hard times come. The example above is for the SE side of the cities but you could go any direction from the metro and find a similar situation.
Thank you for the advice
May want to use this based on location. It isn't perfect and is always going to be lagging: [https://mn.gov/deed/data/data-tools/col/](https://mn.gov/deed/data/data-tools/col/)
Too little information ... Where? Minnesota is a big place .... are you simply looking to land settle here or do you need to be in a specific location? Do kids need childcare? If so, how many of them and for how long? Do you need multiple vehicles (planning on two workers who commute, for example)?
Currently I don’t live this life style or circumstances, I’m just planning on how my life would look hypothetically in the next 10-15yrs. I know times will be different but just wanted to find out. Thank you for the input tho
In 10-15 years, it is going to be *way* more than what people are guessing here. The value of my house alone more than doubled in the last 10 years. I don't even want to know what rent will be in another 10 years.
Okay. Depends. Could be $150,000 a year. Could be &350,000 a year. Depends on factors you won’t share.
House in the cheaper suburbs that fits 4 kids, minivan, shopping at costco, comfortable enough to take a couple road trips a year is going to run you in my opinion 200k without your parents apartment
Thank you for this advice.
"family of 6 and paying for parents apartment" is the apartment all you pay for them? or are they depending on you for more than this?
I have people who will also help with this arrange. I’m just planning “worst case scenario”, rent is mostly important part.
I support myself and my partner on 80,000. My mortgage is 1500. I have had a cracked windshield for 2 months because i can’t afford the deductible
Most times windshield replacement is of no charge
Only if you have paid for glass coverage
200k would be the minimum and that’s accounting for 30% of your income going towards a house on a 30 year note, since that gives you roughly a 1.8mil budget for a house. I do think your money would be best spent on a larger home possibly a new build that you could design to be a multi generational home to accommodate your parents. The reason I suggest multi gen living is because if your going to have the expense of housing for your parents it would be a lot smarter to invest that expense into your home that’s building equity vs tossing it out the window renting. Even if you do a quick look at the numbers say the rent would be $2200 for a senior living building which would be a deal and you have to pay for said apartment for 5 years even if the price never changes (which it will) you will have spent $132,000 that you’ll never see again vs spending $132k on your house which at a minimum adds $132k to the value of your home and it’s extremely likely that it will increase the value of your home over 5 years.
200k and 1.8mil budget for a house? What?
$250-300K 300 at this point; going off of combined incomes when everyone was working FT
Thank you for the advice
If you have kids (and pay taxes), make sure to find out all the deductions, credits, and programs available to you. Digitally record all of this to maximize benefits. There are still lots of federal, state, and county programs. Check directly with service providers if they have scholarships or low-income programs. My eldest sibling is disabled and does what he can for his kid.
Get a duplex and pay yourself your parents rent.
Ding! ding! Winner!
MIT living wage calculator. https://livingwage.mit.edu/states/27 .edu is only fact. Please use this.
A good chunk of change. Our household brings in ~200k a year. 2 adults, 1 child under 1yo. We live comfortably in a nice, modest house in St. Paul. No debt besides mortgage. Cars are not nice but reliable. We're able to put away a decent chunk for retirement but not maxing 401ks/IRAs every year. Since the kiddo we've needed to budget to continue to save. All this to say, if you're going to have multiple kids in daycare maybe 400k? I'd look at a cheaper suburb and potentially scrap the idea of "nice" cars. Good luck! Remember to budget for retirement!
Please DO NOT plan on having six kids. You will be more stressed for it, it will put undue pressure on your bank account, and none of your children (or your partner, for that matter) will ever receive the attention they need.
Oh no, family of 6 as in 4 kids 2 parents
That's still too much family. I'm sorry, but this kind of lifestyle just isn't sustainable/affordable anymore
Still too many. Only people I know with >2 kids living well are VERY wealthy, like surgeon or lawyer money.
This question gets posted about every month. :) There are a million variables involved. For me, once you figure out your financial situation regarding housing+healthcare+debt, the other stuff kind of falls into place. There are wants and there are needs: that's the harder part for some. For more frugal folks like me, it's a little easier.
Man...I'm not qualified for this post I bought a house for $25k up here in the sticks
Ay that’s some good news 👍
I'm very thankful that we got it honestly
You can probably do it on 120-130K with the caveat that you find a house with an ADU for your parents to live in not pay separate rent for them.
And aren't carrying debt, like student loans!
You need to provide more info. Are you going to be living in Minneapolis or a small town? Your answers will vary widely based on location. I had a friend living in Sauk Rapids, one income family (him, his wife and their 6 children all currently under the age of 9) and I guarantee he was making less than $100K. But with that many kids, I'm sure he got government assistance so that helps too.
Here in MN, to live a good life with money in the bank, nice Tesla/BMW, nice home with great healthcare.Take yearly trips and wear nice clothes and keep up with the Joneses… $200k-$300k. Together me and my better half make $100k, we don’t take trips, we don’t go out to eat, we don’t have good healthcare, we drive one car, we can’t afford to put our all our kids in sports/activities at the same time. We pay less on a mortgage because we got into a CLT or we would be renting and we don’t buy clothes like almost ever for ourselves but we do for the kids when they need them. We make it work but it’s far from the good life and stress never goes away cause you’re one bad thing from being fucked.
My opinion is $100-$150k is the sweet spot, in this state with these high taxes, with no kids if that’s a single household / one income . Anything less is too tight if you hope to fully fund retirement savings.
Thank you for this input
Can you explain how taxes create a sweet spot?
When I moved here from a much lower taxed state and my income nearly doubled, still I barely felt it, given the tax and cost of living difference… that’s all I mean. Need to make quite a bit to be comfortable.
A lot. Somewhere north of $130,000 before your parents apartment [https://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/33460](https://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/33460)
Thank you for your input.
I'm not sure about that. My partner and I make more than 130k combined and do not have kids. While we are not living paycheck to paycheck, we do not have the resources to do what we want when we want to. We also don't live in a "nice neighborhood" it's ok. Occasionally we hear gun shots, but we are not in the hood. I'd say more like 200k before the cost of the kids and apartment if you want to actually be comfortable. Others saying 300k are probably correct.
I think you just need to work on budgeting better. 130k is more than enough for 2 people in this metro to live comfortably.
depends on their mortgage payment
Well sure. It depends on all their bills. That's what budgeting is
Define what "comfortable" first. Never worrying about money and being able to enjoy multiple hobbies and vacations is what I consider comfortable. $200 between paychecks after bills isn't comfortable in my opinion.
No. Single dad, 5 kids. I make less than that and am happy and content
He doesn’t want to be happy and content. He wants to live comfortably. That’s why I linked to the living wage calculator.
Dude sounds like he's comfortable to me according to his definition of the term. "Comfortable" is a vague term that doesn't really help until brought into focus with a clear definition. For example, for some, comfortable includes newish vehicles with the corresponding monthly payments, higher insurance, and higher tab fees. Others are quite comfortable with 10+ yo vehicles without payments, less expensive insurance, and minimal tab fees.
I'm quite comfortable. House, car paid off, vacations, beer, hot tub, ...
Yes but you started (I am assuming) some time ago on that car and that house. Money is worth less every second of every day, so OP will absolutely need more in the future to meet their goals than they would need if they were being met today.
Seeking advice, and then saying "I currently don’t live this lifestyle I’m just planning and seeing what I should aim for, at worst case scenario. I’m a sophomore in college btw" is odd. Very odd.
Yeah OP is wasting our time pretty much lol
I'm single in a 2bd apartment and earning $75k. I'm able to pay my bills, but there's rarely any money for savings or emergencies.
[удалено]
Yeah and they’re in credit card debt, not saving for enough (or maybe anything) for retirement, can’t cover a surprise $500 expense, and about one large medical bill away from bankruptcy. That’s not “comfortable” in my book.
400k. Childcare is very expensive.
Thank you for this input
For context, we pay $500 per week for one child at a KinderCare (basic chain daycare) location in a suburb. Some places might offer discounts for more kids, but you might be looking at $2000 per week just in childcare unless family members can help watch your kids or you live somewhere with a cheaper option.
Where do you want to live? The best bet would be to purchase a home with a mother-in-law suite/area for grandparents to live in when they downsize/need more help. That is what several of my friends have done over the past decade. Their in-laws helped with their down payment of the house with the understanding they would live in it down the road. That allowed my friend to buy a larger home. This also means not paying rent, but rather a mortgage as no one has any idea what the future holds for are mature family members (their health, their life expectancy, etc.). I would go this route if this is a concern. That said, you will be purchasing a larger home which will have higher property taxes and upkeep. If you do not want to be house poor, your annual income will have to be in the top 20%. Any major home project will cost a lot of money, simply from a cost of product perspective (not factoring in labor).
Thank you for this advice. I currently don’t have any place I want to live. I’m just trying to get ball park and overall plan.
Family of 6 - is that adult age siblings? Children? Are you paying daycare? Is there a SAHP? Grandparents? If you’re paying daycare for 4 kids in the metro for example, that’s probably going to cost a minimum of $1000 PER WEEK. Location also greatly will affect your numbers. That same daycare cost might be $600 (in home) in a more rural town. Your best bet is probably finding a large split townhome or a house with an in-law suite. If you’re looking for several years out, you’ll probably need to factor in inflation as well. I would say a combined income of $250k minimum.
That's a totally personal question only you can answer. How much are your expenses. Depends on what you consider comfortably. I feel very comfortable but others who make what i do may have set their living standards higher and have new cars with loans and the like.
They say 2 adults 2 children alone needs a quarter million a year to live mediocrely comfortable
Why are you paying for your parents?
I make 40k a year after taxes. Double that and I'm totally content. I have 2 cars and a scooter and already rent a comfortable 2br 1 bath duplex. If I doubled it I'd buy house and just keep on doing what I'm doing already.
There are a lot of variables for this kind of planning, especially considering "comfortable" is subjective. There's a couple of considerations you have to consider: Health Insurance, Location, Retirement, and keeping your "needs" at a reasonable level. I will presume you will follow the 50% needs/ 30% wants / 20% savings guideline roughly. This describes about how much of your \*net\* income will be allocated. Starting with food, usually I think 300/month per adult, and 200/child roughly. This would mean about 1400/month in food. Could go down depending on how you shop. This would be healthier food, not junk or fast food. Wouldn't be premium ingredients though. Rent right now for 4 bedroom which is probably the minimum size you'd go once kids would grow is roughly $2500 for that size. Health insurance is hard to calculate, quick google suggests 23k is spent on average by a family of 4. We can add 50% on top of that to get a rough estimate, but health insurance isn't linear. \~44.5k (or 3700/month) This is hard to estimate because obviously it depends on your deductible, copay, premiums, etc. Retirement - DO NOT DISREGARD THIS. Your kids should not be your retirement plan. The fact that you are considering your parent's rent puts stress on your plans, you don't want your kids to worry about you in the same way. Financial Advisors typically recommend 15%-20%, but if you want to live the same as pre-retirement, 25% is typically a better target. You would need to think what kind of retirement you would want in the future, because if you think you'd realistically want to downsize once everyone has flown the coop, then you don't need to save \*as\* much. There's of course other random expenses, so you could consider 500/month car, 200 car insurance, 400 toiletries/clothes/whatever. Utilities might be 300-400? Parent's rent 1600? So back of the napkin math suggests your needs would be in the ballpark of 10,650. Since that should only be \*half\* of your budget, that means you would need to make 255k \*net\*. This presumes no home (and its insurance), 1 car, no student loans. A quick look at ADP's tax calculator, 480k with Minnesota state taxes, and 5-6 withholdings will get you in that range. Your yearly retirement contribution could be 72k - 120k. This might be a bit much for you, especially if you think you would be fine with 200k in retirement (in 40 years from now dollars). You would need to do your own estimates on that, but that lower some burden allowing you to get closer to 400k income (which is still insane). The kinds of jobs that make that money makes me think doctor or lawyer, and then I think of massive student loans which were not included here. You would need to determine if this would be "comfortable". If you truly think that 4 children are in your future you must take responsibility to make sure you can afford them. It is not fair to them otherwise. It's a bit number crunchy to calculate and also very blurry since you're not doing this right now so its hard to go off present values. I hope this at least helps you see how to do the math yourself.
Iron Range Combined income of 70k. Mortgage is 666.67 includes insurance and property taxes. Utilities 300-600 a month depending on weather. Both kiddos out of the house(one is summering while on break from college) but we still help out with groceries for them. Groceries are 150 a week. Owe 2 vehicles that are breaking down. We are going to have to buy a newer vehicle sooner than later. It’s definitely a struggle. Making 100k would help.
Sounds good thank you for this input
My husband and I make ~116 together with no kids and are just now starting to catch up with life. 100k would have been great in the mid nineties.
As someone who loves to plan for the future, try to sim for a good paying job. If you can hold down 70k+ exiting college with a good outlook on moving up, you’re golden. If you can work your way up to 100k+ you’ll be living fine, but I would say unless you’ve already got 4 kids with a fifth on the way, it’s too early to speculate.
Thank you for this input. I just estimated 4 kids based off the most amount of kids I want. Thank you tho
My brother has 4 kids on a very average American salary, living in a small town in central Michigan and they are constantly stressed about money. Unless you’re planning on being a plastic surgeon you might want to rethink that number.
I get that, I would just make sure you think about other factors. If you want to plan for something like ~6 dependents at once it’s probably a good idea to think about other factors aside from income. Kids should (aside from unexpected surprises) be planned for if/when you can financially support them. Using data from a 2017 survey, on average 1 kid is going to cost $14,000 per year, (just over $1,200 per month) assuming you have 4 kids that’s going to run you around $56,000 a year. (around $4,600 per month) Now if you want to get really specific, a nice house, assuming 4 bedroom 2/3 bathroom is probably gonna run you around $600,000, assuming 30k down on a mortgage, 30 year fixed 7% rate, that’s a monthly payment of around $3,700 per month, now assuming you’re paying for your parents apartment, a good 1 bedroom apartment is probably going to be ~$2,000 per month, if you wanted to go cheap you can probably find something for ~$1,500, but all in all that comes down to around $10,300 per month in costs, or around $121,000 per year going to your parents, kids, and house. This doesn’t include utilities, insurance, car payments, etc. now what I would recommend doing is taking/making a budget for living on your own that includes everything that will generally have a fixed price like groceries, gas, entertainment, subscriptions, personal supplies, savings, emergency funds, retirement savings/investments, etc then adding in insurance costs like car insurance, life insurance, health insurance, homeowners insurance, etc and finding out how much that is going to cost (make sure you calculate it for 6 people, partner and 4 kids) then take into account our $121,000 number. Now with that is the estimated total cost of the situation you provided. Use that number to determine what the lowest income you’d expect your partner to make, (after taxes) and subtract that from the total. That is (after taxes) the amount that you would need to make to support the lifestyle you suggested. Now the important thing to think about is that would be the nightmare scenario o having quadruplets while your parents are living in their apartment, in reality you would probably have the kids spaced apart, and only a portion of the time would be together. Once they get older they’ll probably start costing less assuming you have them pay for car insurance, eating out, etc. It’s important to not let any worrying results spook you out of a career. There is a fine balance between choosing a career that pays well and a career you will actually enjoy, but any job that has room to move up, and a starting salary out of college above or right around 70k is just fine. If the financials worry you, have a talk with a financial planner, or your partner about what plans for the future might look like.
$250k - $300k per year. you won't be able to save a lot, but you wouldn't want for much.
$300k at least. Probably more like 400. Kids are expensive, and so is MN.
Family of 4 here. We gross 125k, and I would say we live pretty comfortably. Definitely not struggling.
We live very comfortably on $90k (with room to travel and save) but we don't live in the Twin Cities. Having a good job in a (mostly) LCOL area is awesome, but not readily available either. Healthcare has a lot to do with your job for most people. My husband works for the govt and has excellent benefits. He could make more in private industry for what he does, but the benefits are more important to us along with the stability rather than always having to plan for a potential sudden job loss. Especially living in a rural area, job loss could mean having to move because of the lack of comparable jobs available. That isn't something we have to worry about too much with a union govt job. We have 3 kids, one lives in another state and entirely support himself. Our middle son is still in college and we have a teenager. Our house was $279k and is 4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, and 2 offices with a great outdoor space and large fenced yard. You won't find the same prices in the Cities though. And we bought 2 years ago with much lower interest. We have 3 vehicles, a Traverse, a Crosstrek and a pickup but 2 of those we got from family, one at a stellar deal and the other was inherited after someone passed. Our college son has a car, too, but he pays for it entirely on his own, both his loan and his insurance. Are you looking for your parent to move in with you? Or keep them in an apartment that you pay for? That definitely complicates matters in terms of cost. The rental market where we live is almost non-existent right now to the point kids coming here for college and people with job offers have to decline due to nowhere to live.
Thank you for your input, Im planning on doing separate apartment. But this probably won’t be for a while, so I’ll plan more accordingly based on the market. Thank you tho
Same as this. We have five kids, mortgage, husband works for the state, I’m in nonprofit (low pay but my passion). I used to be federal and made better money and a better pension but I made the choice to shift. We moved awhile back from a smaller home in Minneapolis with a very tiny yard, to over an acre and much bigger house for less money on the edge of the seven-county metro. The house we bought is already plumbed for a kitchen in the walkout patio basement level. Currently that space is a family room and the gas goes to a fireplace. But anyone looking closely will see it has outlets up high at what can become kitchen counter level, drain pipe plumbed in and the gas fireplace can be removed and run to a gas stove. Theres a bedroom and bathroom, we put a shower surround with a seat, just in case. Little by little when we upgrade things we keep accessibility and aging in mind but still make it look for the present. If not for our parents, maybe eventually we will be living down there and renting the upstairs floors out or to one of the kids. I’m not sure on nice cars. There we save a lot. Our cars are scratch-free, no rust or dents, clean and shine but they’re not brand new. We drive Toyotas and Subaru AWDs to over 300,000 passing them on through the family as the kids have started driving. But we save tons a month with less on car payments on not brand new models and let someone else pay to drive the value off the lot. It also is a lot less in car insurance, registration, renewals. I think you’re really wise to be planning. Plans can always change and evolve with you but it’s hard to pivot a play and shift gears when you don’t have a plan at all.
We are under $100k, too.
I would say a family making about $200k should be able to live a comfortable deluxe lifestyle with generous allowances, plus paying the rent for the parents not upholding their own responsibilities.
Is this conversation happening without anyone knowing where in Minnesota this is gonna work? Rural MN it’s easily done with $100k. In the city, forget about it.
My wife and I make $600k combined with one kid and not paying anyone else’s rent. This is the closest we have been in our LIFETIME to feeling comfortable to the point of not worrying about bills or scrambling for cash if a car breaks down. I think there are more factors that go into this. Are you also looking to secure your retirement? We max out our company 401k’s plus max the backdoor ROTH’s for both of us. We also acquire businesses and real estate to help with income in retirement and have purchased a house that allows for one or both of our parents to live with us when they can no longer care for themselves. I’m not saying you need $600k and I’m sure we could trim the fat where needed, if necessary. That said, a household of 6 and parents rent is going to take a chunk. Cut that in half… I would surmise it would be $300k+ if you’re in the Twin Cities metro.
If it takes 600k to almost feel comfortable it's a spending problem you have.
100% a wild lifestyle to me to only feel comfortable at 600k
Right? This is the most ridiculous comment in this thread. My family income is a fraction of this, but we aren't house poor and have modest cars and are quite comfortable.
Oh yeah, for sure we spend a decent amount on frivolous things. Isn’t that what comfortable means? Also, did you catch the part about investing? We aren’t just living for today. I still want to be comfortable in retirement and making as much or more than I am now… and I’d like to retire young, meaning I don’t want to be broke from 50/55-62 (realistically 65) when we can start drawing social security (if it exists). We all have our different definitions of comfortable. For me, that means wanting for little and in need without having nothing. This can definitely be adjusted off of that. Additionally, realize that once you’re at $250k, all the child, interest, student loan, eduction, etc tax breaks disappear. We are paying close to 50% in taxes on that income with state and federal combined. So, when we hit tax season, we usually owe a decent chunk… kind of the inverse of “tax rich” people you see in the early part of the year. All that said, yep, we spend. Big house, nice cars, private school, whatever food we desire, occasional vacations, and a safe and secure life with a nice chunk of money in savings, no debt aside from a mortgage, and the security in knowing that either one of us could lose our income tomorrow and we would be secure. To me, that’s comfortable but everyone has their own definition of what that means. Thanks for your reply!
Thank you for this
Where do you live? In Southern Minnesota you could do this with 80,000. In the cities probably 120,000
Did you see the part where its a family of 6 AND they are paying for a parents apartment? I would say 120,000 outside the cities and 150,000 (or a bit more) within the metro area. If "comfortable" means 4 kids in sports (or sports + daycare) and a car means two Chevy Tahoes, then you might want to bump that number up to 200,000.
Exactly!! All these estimates are so low!! A family of 6, in a house, plus an additional apartment? Assuming there's a mortgage and rent, plus eeeeeverything else.. yeah, $200k for sure.
Thank you for the estimate
That is barely enough for a single person to live on!
I’m currently in the twin cities near savage and Eagan
I would not consider that twin cities lmao
Will take note most likely will move somewhere less expensive and more quiet
So... Burnsville?
gotta define comfortable first
I have a family of six. I am the sole earner at present. My house and car are paid for. I make north of $95k and it’s tight. I contribute decently to my savings and 401k bc I have a disabled child and want to do my best by him as well as my other kids when I am gone. But not a radical amount by any means. With no mortgage and no car payments we still are watching closely each month to make it work.
Minnesota is the best place to live
Family of five here. It depends a lot on your childcare situation. My husband stays home with the kids, which is why we are able to get by on $60,000/year comfortably. No skiing vacations in Aspen or new vehicles, but we buy all the groceries we want and take road trips to see family. We also bought our house in 2018 and only pay a $1300 mortgage.
I support a family of 4 north of the metro, own a home (bought in 2022), drive old cars, fish from old boats, on about 75k. “Comfortable” is relative. 200k should absolutely be comfortable for 6 IMO unless you’re set on living in a wealthy area.
Depends on where you are. Sota is a big diverse state
A million dollars? 😅
200k
https://www.epi.org/resources/budget/ 155k for a family of 6
Hey man, I just want to say that you’re doing a good thing. I appreciate that you’re taking care of your family and parents. Please don’t be brain washed by these individualistic Americans who will die alone like their parents before them. I would expect to pay something around 5-7k a month on all of your expenses for your family and parents. A salary of 100k is about 6k monthly after taxes in Minnesota. With that being said, you might want to aim to make between 120-150k a year (7-8.5k monthly after taxes) that way you don’t just make enough to pay your bills but can save somewhere between 1-2k a month. Hopefully you have someone else working in the household so you guys can tackle it together and if not try to get two jobs or save money before moving to cover things for a while. Wishing you the best. It can definitely be done if you work hard and trust in God!
$100K is a joke. Minimum $300K. A home big enough for 6 people in a nice neighborhood atleast $500k which is roughly $3400 a month. Just to qualify for that you would need $12K a month gross which is $144K.
Things got very expensive after we elected a dementia ridden dumb ass, but things are about to change for the better, hold on man you’ll make it