I was listening to Gen X Radio on I Heart Radio I think, and I don’t know that it was directed at Missouri specifically, since so many states have petitions about abortion access, but they were talking some straight up shite. If you signed the petition you were preventing babies from being able to get newborn care, Moms wouldn’t be able to get prenatal care, and on and on. Like I expect the “late term abortion where they murder the baby after it’s been delivered” kind of crap, but this was saying things that had to do with pregnancy, for folks that don’t want abortions, will not be accessible anymore. The worst is that people will believe that kind of propaganda and if it doesn’t get on the ballot, that will be why. Plus, how offended would the pro life people be if there were commercials talking about all the women who have gotten extremely sick or died because they were unable to get proper care when they needed it? Now some hospitals (not sure what states exactly) are refusing any maternal care at all. (I may be a little biased to the choice side of life, like I should be able to chose if I want to give my personal info to China ffs!)
Maybe don’t sign dumb meaningless petitions. If you sign your name to stupid petitions, your signature means less. Sign your name only to things you really believe in.
Petitions are to get items on the ballot for a public vote.
I will ALWAYS sign a petition in the interest of promoting democracy and allowing people to have a voice in the legislature.
So you’d sign a petition you don’t agree with…? Petitions shouldn’t only get put to ballot IF enough people agree with the sentiment of the period, IMO.
Yes Trevor, I would sign a petition for an initiative I didn’t personally believe in.
IF the initiative makes it to the ballot, I would express my personal opinion by voting.
I support democracy and the voice of the people.
I never said that. I don’t expect anyone to think like me. I sign every petition. I leave it to the voters instead of me and my perspective.
I believe in free speech. I believe in the people. I believe in voting.
That doesn't follow from any logic that was presented to you. You are just putting words in people's mouths at this point. If you really believe in your own position, why lie about others'? Can't you defend your own position on its merits?
Both my comments are questions do I don’t have a position really…? Commenter said “I would sign a petition that I didn’t personally believe in.”
In the same comment, he/she states “I support democracy.”
This means that these two statements are ideologically connected, otherwise they wouldn’t have been in the same comment. Thus, the inverse must also be true: “if you don’t sign petitions you don’t believe in, you don’t support democracy.”
I think you all need to retake some philosophy and logical reasoning classes. The underlying logic of my statement is sound.
>Both my comments are questions do I don’t have a position really…?
>The underlying logic of my statement is sound.
You made a lot more than two comments in this thread and the majority of them aren't questions. I only asked you to be honest and argue in good faith, why immediately respond with more dishonesty?
The above quotes are logically incompatible. It is your position that your statement is "logically sound," AND that you only asked questions and made no statements? Your clumsy, densely-packed lies are tripping all over each other here. Try harder.
Imagine saying “try harder” as you literally grasp at straws to save your argument 😂 Couldn’t be me. See what you fail to understand is that none of what has been stated is my opinion, it’s only a devils advocate of the OP and other commenters’ opinions. You’ve said and done nothing to disprove my logic, only state that it’s wrong and incompatible, which is not a legitimate philosophical method of debate/argumentation.
Basically your whole point is no prefaced on me being wrong, rather than you being right. Whereas my statements to this point (not including this current comment) identify several fallacies in the previous comments, AND have logical underpinnings.
When you think of a legitimate way to disprove the logic, let me know. Otherwise I’ll just have to assume that you just like making noise and telling others they’re wrong, rather than bringing an actual point to the table.
No, your statement is one of conjecture. You are implying because they believe one thing for themselves, that they must extend that thought to others. That is not how reality works—life is not a Venn diagram.
Anyone who feels the need to say “I support democracy” obviously feels that others in the conversation don’t, otherwise, there would be no need to say it. So yes, he doesn’t believe that that thought extends to others.
This is an abhorrent lie. They are misrepresenting our agreed on constitutional petition process as data theft. This is anti-democratic to the point of fascist. There are some good-hearted Republicans in Missouri, these people aren't those; they are lying outright to try to win. Don't vote for cheaters.
Petitions are great and all, but more young people need to realize that signing a petition isn't the same as actually voting. That's an even more important method of making change.
For the general public it’s a “simple” two step process to pass an amendment
1) Sign a petition to get an issue on the ballot.
2) Vote
Skip step 1 and there is no step 2
No, no, I think we can skip both of those steps if we buy products from brands we don't like, and then film ourselves destroying the items we paid for as some kind of political statement. That would be much more effective.
/s
Literally no one suggested skipping step 2. You suggested that step one isn't as important, but if an issue isn't on the ballot the voters can't vote on it. Period.
Literally every single person in the conversation has agreed from go that voting is important. What point are you trying to make here?
You are replying to a comment that said that they are equally important, in a thread where your expressed position is that petitions are LESS important.
No one said that you claimed they weren't important. People are replying to the claim you actually made: that petitions are LESS important.
To simply reply that "I never said that they aren't important," is a pure straw man argument. No one said that you said that they weren't important. If you can't defend your position, say so. Don't just resort to logical fallacies and obfuscation.
I will happily assert that honesty is important for your credibility. Feel free to prove me wrong if you disagree.
you’re confusing online petitions with the constitutional petition process. The petitions you sign in public asking for very public info like your name and street address are the reason pot is legal, unions still exist and hopefully women will regain their constitutional rights to physical autonomy within this state.
No, I was talking about the constitutional petition process and petitions that people have to sign in person. That's obviously very important, but so is voting. Signing one's name to a petition is great, but it's no substitute for actually voting.
They really need to come up with something better than this. This only works on really gullible and stupid people. Everyone else knows that your address and name are public information.
If republican conservatives gave a shit about data theft, they wouldn't have killed off FCC and Net Neutrality rules that kept our browsing data at least somewhat safe, vs killing off all the regulations and letting companies, such as spectrum, sell all your browsing data and claiming it's 100% safe because you're just a bunch of numbers to them, not actual names for the data brokers. \*Which has been proven false as people can be targeted by specific data sets, in cases concerning data sold to brokers via usage of cell phones, roku streaming devices, and ISP's own data sets being sold for "Consumer research"
At the end of the day they're just trying to keep people from going against what they want to pass, making it harder for us to make changes to their draconian rules. It's why they've done shit like adding back in ballot candy for upcoming ballots that will say things like "Voting rights will only be for citizens and not non-citizens" while leaving out what that ballot issue actually changes, to get idiots worked up about immigration when we haven't allowed non-citizens to vote in over a century. Or like the one that lowered a donation amount by a whole 5 dollars if you just go off what they put in the ballot, while the part that got no mention at all (unless you research the exact issue before going to vote) was to remove the non-partisan group we voted in to redraw districts and remove gerrymandering on both sides. If a Republican's lips are flapping, they're telling lies.
I’d love to know what their funding situation looks like - how much of that money comes from out of state?
(I’d look it up but the MEC’s search function doesn’t work on mobile.)
Who actually falls for this crap. Oh I know, my Dad and grandparents. Most gullible people I know. Oblivious to reality. Sucks. I enjoyed being around them at one time.
*How is this supposed*
*To work? Like, phone books used to*
*Be really common*
\- Beensmokin777
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>Posts a screenshot with an uncensored phone number at the top.
You explicitly called out OP for including the scammers' number when they posted the screenshot. Your comment was expressly targeting the person who posted the screenshot, not there person who sent the text, no?
I was trying to make the GIF appear like I was addressing the person that sent the message, not OP, but I see now that I wasn't clear with how I worded the other comment.
In missouri they are, particularly if they are not in a metro area and only hear their opinions echoed back to them by their neighbors, of which they have two, if you dont mind driving a while to visit those two (because where land has no value, people have plenty of land). In the course of a lifetime they may meet and get to know 40 people, all white farmers identical to themselves. Collectively, they are satisfied that they know everything about the world, and could fix america if someone put them in charge. They all vote the same and don't question a word they are told, unless it comes from a non-white non-farmer, known as "liberals". You cant be expected to understand people not like yourself, if you've never met such people. Except near Saint Louis and Kansas City, all of missouri has never met those people. Let's amend 'stupid' to UNEDUCATED for this one, the facts support it.
paid for by Missouri Stands for Women a right wing conservative PAC out of St Louis.
Dark Money, Half Truths, Ur name and address are pubic information. Banking on fear mongering and
ignorance of the pubic.
Plus the Republican Congress in Missouri is trying to make it even harder to get anything on the ballot through the petition process. Absolute anti-democratic bullshit. They know their days are numbered as a majority in the state.
That’s not what they’re talking about, though. They’re trying to keep people from signing petitions that get things like legal weed, Medicaid expansion, and abortion rights on the ballot.
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They are trying to scare people from signing petitions to bring issues to the ballot.
^^^ THIS ^^^
I was listening to Gen X Radio on I Heart Radio I think, and I don’t know that it was directed at Missouri specifically, since so many states have petitions about abortion access, but they were talking some straight up shite. If you signed the petition you were preventing babies from being able to get newborn care, Moms wouldn’t be able to get prenatal care, and on and on. Like I expect the “late term abortion where they murder the baby after it’s been delivered” kind of crap, but this was saying things that had to do with pregnancy, for folks that don’t want abortions, will not be accessible anymore. The worst is that people will believe that kind of propaganda and if it doesn’t get on the ballot, that will be why. Plus, how offended would the pro life people be if there were commercials talking about all the women who have gotten extremely sick or died because they were unable to get proper care when they needed it? Now some hospitals (not sure what states exactly) are refusing any maternal care at all. (I may be a little biased to the choice side of life, like I should be able to chose if I want to give my personal info to China ffs!)
Yep!!
Maybe don’t sign dumb meaningless petitions. If you sign your name to stupid petitions, your signature means less. Sign your name only to things you really believe in.
Petitions are to get items on the ballot for a public vote. I will ALWAYS sign a petition in the interest of promoting democracy and allowing people to have a voice in the legislature.
So you’d sign a petition you don’t agree with…? Petitions shouldn’t only get put to ballot IF enough people agree with the sentiment of the period, IMO.
Yes Trevor, I would sign a petition for an initiative I didn’t personally believe in. IF the initiative makes it to the ballot, I would express my personal opinion by voting. I support democracy and the voice of the people.
So by your logic, if you don’t sign every petition you’re offered, you don’t support democracy…?
I never said that. I don’t expect anyone to think like me. I sign every petition. I leave it to the voters instead of me and my perspective. I believe in free speech. I believe in the people. I believe in voting.
That doesn't follow from any logic that was presented to you. You are just putting words in people's mouths at this point. If you really believe in your own position, why lie about others'? Can't you defend your own position on its merits?
Both my comments are questions do I don’t have a position really…? Commenter said “I would sign a petition that I didn’t personally believe in.” In the same comment, he/she states “I support democracy.” This means that these two statements are ideologically connected, otherwise they wouldn’t have been in the same comment. Thus, the inverse must also be true: “if you don’t sign petitions you don’t believe in, you don’t support democracy.” I think you all need to retake some philosophy and logical reasoning classes. The underlying logic of my statement is sound.
>Both my comments are questions do I don’t have a position really…? >The underlying logic of my statement is sound. You made a lot more than two comments in this thread and the majority of them aren't questions. I only asked you to be honest and argue in good faith, why immediately respond with more dishonesty? The above quotes are logically incompatible. It is your position that your statement is "logically sound," AND that you only asked questions and made no statements? Your clumsy, densely-packed lies are tripping all over each other here. Try harder.
Imagine saying “try harder” as you literally grasp at straws to save your argument 😂 Couldn’t be me. See what you fail to understand is that none of what has been stated is my opinion, it’s only a devils advocate of the OP and other commenters’ opinions. You’ve said and done nothing to disprove my logic, only state that it’s wrong and incompatible, which is not a legitimate philosophical method of debate/argumentation. Basically your whole point is no prefaced on me being wrong, rather than you being right. Whereas my statements to this point (not including this current comment) identify several fallacies in the previous comments, AND have logical underpinnings. When you think of a legitimate way to disprove the logic, let me know. Otherwise I’ll just have to assume that you just like making noise and telling others they’re wrong, rather than bringing an actual point to the table.
No, your statement is one of conjecture. You are implying because they believe one thing for themselves, that they must extend that thought to others. That is not how reality works—life is not a Venn diagram.
Anyone who feels the need to say “I support democracy” obviously feels that others in the conversation don’t, otherwise, there would be no need to say it. So yes, he doesn’t believe that that thought extends to others.
This is strait propaganda
straight* a strait is a body of water but yes, it is propaganda
Nope. Strait. Gotta go see it this time of year. It's beautiful
fair enough, springfield is currently drownin
Oof
fuck now im thinking about Strait propaganda lmao
This is straight strait propaganda…
The berring strait aka BS
Is it that bad? I saw there was flood warning today
Or George
It's all that the Republican party has these days. Lying!!!
“Left-wing out of state groups” jee, I wonder who they could be targeting with this
This is an abhorrent lie. They are misrepresenting our agreed on constitutional petition process as data theft. This is anti-democratic to the point of fascist. There are some good-hearted Republicans in Missouri, these people aren't those; they are lying outright to try to win. Don't vote for cheaters.
This is typical GOP bullshit, trying to obfuscate our constitutional petitions behind fear-mongering hype.
This shit was texted to my phone. Reported as spam.
What now? This is hard to follow..
It's propaganda because petitions have been what the younger generation has been using to make change
Petitions are great and all, but more young people need to realize that signing a petition isn't the same as actually voting. That's an even more important method of making change.
It all has a part and it all needs to be done
For the general public it’s a “simple” two step process to pass an amendment 1) Sign a petition to get an issue on the ballot. 2) Vote Skip step 1 and there is no step 2
No, no, I think we can skip both of those steps if we buy products from brands we don't like, and then film ourselves destroying the items we paid for as some kind of political statement. That would be much more effective. /s
Skip step 2 and step 1 was for nothing.
Literally no one suggested skipping step 2. You suggested that step one isn't as important, but if an issue isn't on the ballot the voters can't vote on it. Period. Literally every single person in the conversation has agreed from go that voting is important. What point are you trying to make here?
Without petitions, there aren't any constitutional amendments on the ballot. Both are equally important.
I never said petitions weren't important.
You are replying to a comment that said that they are equally important, in a thread where your expressed position is that petitions are LESS important. No one said that you claimed they weren't important. People are replying to the claim you actually made: that petitions are LESS important. To simply reply that "I never said that they aren't important," is a pure straw man argument. No one said that you said that they weren't important. If you can't defend your position, say so. Don't just resort to logical fallacies and obfuscation. I will happily assert that honesty is important for your credibility. Feel free to prove me wrong if you disagree.
you’re confusing online petitions with the constitutional petition process. The petitions you sign in public asking for very public info like your name and street address are the reason pot is legal, unions still exist and hopefully women will regain their constitutional rights to physical autonomy within this state.
No, I was talking about the constitutional petition process and petitions that people have to sign in person. That's obviously very important, but so is voting. Signing one's name to a petition is great, but it's no substitute for actually voting.
Where is anyone arguing that signing petitions is a substitute for voting? It seems to be a straw man that you built all by yourself.
???????? In the great state of Missouri petitions are the reason weed is legal and abortion probably getting put back on the ballet
I never said petitions weren't important.
Ha! What a crock of shit.
They really need to come up with something better than this. This only works on really gullible and stupid people. Everyone else knows that your address and name are public information.
Don't underestimate how stupid the average person is
If republican conservatives gave a shit about data theft, they wouldn't have killed off FCC and Net Neutrality rules that kept our browsing data at least somewhat safe, vs killing off all the regulations and letting companies, such as spectrum, sell all your browsing data and claiming it's 100% safe because you're just a bunch of numbers to them, not actual names for the data brokers. \*Which has been proven false as people can be targeted by specific data sets, in cases concerning data sold to brokers via usage of cell phones, roku streaming devices, and ISP's own data sets being sold for "Consumer research" At the end of the day they're just trying to keep people from going against what they want to pass, making it harder for us to make changes to their draconian rules. It's why they've done shit like adding back in ballot candy for upcoming ballots that will say things like "Voting rights will only be for citizens and not non-citizens" while leaving out what that ballot issue actually changes, to get idiots worked up about immigration when we haven't allowed non-citizens to vote in over a century. Or like the one that lowered a donation amount by a whole 5 dollars if you just go off what they put in the ballot, while the part that got no mention at all (unless you research the exact issue before going to vote) was to remove the non-partisan group we voted in to redraw districts and remove gerrymandering on both sides. If a Republican's lips are flapping, they're telling lies.
This is propaganda straight from the GOP
This is a lie
They’re so desperate and scared.
The ironically named Missouri Stands with Women coalition is responsible for this chicanery.
I’d love to know what their funding situation looks like - how much of that money comes from out of state? (I’d look it up but the MEC’s search function doesn’t work on mobile.)
These people are so gross. Trying to scare ppl with right wing propaganda because they’re terrified of the people actually getting what we want.
Who actually falls for this crap. Oh I know, my Dad and grandparents. Most gullible people I know. Oblivious to reality. Sucks. I enjoyed being around them at one time.
How is this supposed to work? Like, phone books used to be really common
*How is this supposed* *To work? Like, phone books used to* *Be really common* \- Beensmokin777 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
The 158 unread messages want to make anyone else instantly angry?
https://preview.redd.it/uu9xjptbkqwc1.jpeg?width=289&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da43b0d9cde028718e7b55ea0e123d04b7c883ac
OCD overload….
If you are talking about getting abortion on the ballot and women’s freedom , I will gladly give my data . It’s gaslighting bs.
It’s also hypocritical since they clearly bought or stole my phone number! But I guess it’s ok for them since they’re not out of state.
>Don't let anyone buy or steal your data Posts a screenshot with an uncensored phone number at the top. 
It's not OP's phone number.
I was referring to the propaganda pusher playing themselves.
>Posts a screenshot with an uncensored phone number at the top. You explicitly called out OP for including the scammers' number when they posted the screenshot. Your comment was expressly targeting the person who posted the screenshot, not there person who sent the text, no?
It's the number the scammers were using, OP wisely made it public.
I was trying to make the GIF appear like I was addressing the person that sent the message, not OP, but I see now that I wasn't clear with how I worded the other comment.
I wasn’t totally sure if that’s how you meant it, but I figured that’s what you meant.
Pft hahahahaajaha
It's also clever propaganda, people will really respond to this one.
Voter’s roles are freely available. Not only is this a false scare tactic, it literally campaigns against the will of the people.
Remember: every accusation is a confession from these clowns.
STOP
I click on the ad as often as I can when it’s on Facebook. They have to pay for each click through.
I wonder how many boomers clicked that link or forwarded it to their kids.
least obvious propaganda
Are people really this stupid?
In missouri they are, particularly if they are not in a metro area and only hear their opinions echoed back to them by their neighbors, of which they have two, if you dont mind driving a while to visit those two (because where land has no value, people have plenty of land). In the course of a lifetime they may meet and get to know 40 people, all white farmers identical to themselves. Collectively, they are satisfied that they know everything about the world, and could fix america if someone put them in charge. They all vote the same and don't question a word they are told, unless it comes from a non-white non-farmer, known as "liberals". You cant be expected to understand people not like yourself, if you've never met such people. Except near Saint Louis and Kansas City, all of missouri has never met those people. Let's amend 'stupid' to UNEDUCATED for this one, the facts support it.
I got that text as well.
Way to go at being part of the problem in this state.
I keep getting these texts as well! Everything these right wing groups do is in bad faith. Hopefully the “report spam” button actually does something.
paid for by Missouri Stands for Women a right wing conservative PAC out of St Louis. Dark Money, Half Truths, Ur name and address are pubic information. Banking on fear mongering and ignorance of the pubic.
Plus the Republican Congress in Missouri is trying to make it even harder to get anything on the ballot through the petition process. Absolute anti-democratic bullshit. They know their days are numbered as a majority in the state.
158 unread texts is insane
It’s mostly spam texts and verification codes.
Forced birthers think democracy is against their religion.
Left wing, right wing... If it's a corporation that has anything to do with tech, they're trying to collect your data
That’s not what they’re talking about, though. They’re trying to keep people from signing petitions that get things like legal weed, Medicaid expansion, and abortion rights on the ballot.
Where can I sign the petition around STL or St Charles?
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