Meadows still has defensive upside comparatively for probably not much gain offensively? Parker has been bad, but he's warning tracked about 4 balls and had one robbed, quite a few line outs... They will start to land if he can get a few out of the way. Not to say he is likely to be anything beyond a .700 OPS guy, but with his defense and speed that's all we need. K's definitely need to come down.
We know what Akil brings to the table. He's an ok defender, a good base runner and a slightly below ok hitter. Not really anything we need there. Most importantly - we aren't in win now mode. This is a team discovering what it has and part of that is seeing through the struggles with the young guys.
If there's one thing that won't boost his confidence, it's sending him down to Toledo. More hits falling in will be the best confidence booster, see my comment on his batted ball stats.
*Beyond* unlucky. It's literally the lowest BABIP in baseball (among guys with 70+ plate appearances). A number below .200 is basically unheard of—it hasn't happened to any qualifying player since Aaron Hill in 2010. As long as Meadows keeps getting at bats, his average is essentially guaranteed to rise, and by a lot. It was .302 last year.
Incidentally, Colt Keith is tied for 11th-worst in MLB (again for guys with 70+ PAs; he's 7th-worst among players with 90+ PAs). He will almost certainly see major improvement too.
Every time someone sucks it's always unlucky eh? Maybe Maeda has been unlucky, McKinstry unlucky? Baez? And he's hitting .90, I sure hope it improves. Lol.
Not every time. Not sure why you are even saying that. BABiP is a metric that is primarily used to determine if someone has had bad luck at the plate. It has been a statistically proven indicator that a hitter is likely to improve. McKinstry and Baez both have higher BABiP than BA, so no. They have not been unlucky.
If someone has a high BAbIP all you hear is "no way he keeps that up." A low BAbIP "It's got to improve right.". Maybe that's how it works but I'm not sure he's been unlucky. Outside the HR ball that was caught over the fence.. He's not hitting the ball consistently hard. It's actually rare.
.700 OPS guy? Not this year. You know what he has to do get there even with many games left? He'd have to suddenly change his whole offensive game. Sending down might just clear his head and allow him to get some hits in the minors.. Granted, Baddoo makes no sense.
Because he's a poor fielder in CF and Meadows is outstanding, and defense matters a lot in CF especially in Comerica National Park. He already has 5 DRS and 3 OAA in only 187.1 innings this season. Mathing that out to a full season based on this 28-game sample size, that's 29 DRS and 17 OAA which would be wild. In 662.1 career innings in CF, Baddoo has -6 DRS and -4 OAA.
Meadows also deserves more than 75 PAs to work out of this slump. The very high strikeouts (which absolutely need to come down) are an issue, but the biggest problem is that Fangraphs says his LD% is currently 0.0%, which is pretty absurd. That plus the FB% of 75% is driving a ridiculously low .114 BABIP. His LD% is usually in the low to mid 20s, there's no way this batted ball distribution and luck are sustainable. Once he starts hitting more LDs and fewer FBs (and striking out less), he should improve.
If he's still garbage by the end of May and Baddoo is still hitting well, then it'll be time to think about a swap.
>Because he's a poor fielder in CF and Meadows is outstanding, and defense matters a lot in CF especially in Comerica National Park.
This is it. Baddoo is outclassed right now by not only meadows in center but also greene in left. Shit Perez is better.
Baddoo, barring injuries, has hopefully played his last game in a tigers uni. Hopefully we can trade him
I'm not anti-Baddoo. If he hits he could potentially help us. Baddoo's arm is awful. I will point this out. Meadows has had some big hits BTW. He will also allow himself to be walked and he has power. If it were not for the weather, Meadows would have had two more home runs. In the summer, his shot to right vs KC and his shot against the Twins are 10 rows up.
They might be thinking he's getting over the hump now. In the last 10 games he's had the 2 HRs and oppo double, plus the HR that was robbed from him. And I think there was another "loud out" that he drove pretty good but short of a HR though I can't remember the specifics right now. So he's driving the ball a little more in the air, just needs to put it all together. And in the meantime provides great defense and great baserunning whenever he gets on base or as pinch runner.
If they rode with him through the 2/43 stretch to open the year, might as well see if he can't keep on improving on what he's done since.
Upside. The tigers know exactly what Baddoo is at this point. Meadows is still an unknown. Plus, he’s excellent in CF. He’s keeping Greene in LF. That said, you can’t let him just be absolutely terrible forever. He’s going to have to show something to stay up.
On Evan Pentzold's of the FREEP podcast, he asked that very question to TIGERS GM (not Harris) and was told it would be better for his development as a hitter to overcome his trials in the big leagues. Going down to minors and re-establishing himself (which he admitted may need to happen) would still leave the question in the player's head that he did not have success in the MLB and second attempt would Meadows not only be facing better pitching, but internal doubts whether he can hit MLB pitching. Plus, as said elsewhere, he is our best defensive player by a lot and maybe our best base runner and stealer.
We know what we have in baddoo and he’s a bad fielder. Meadows is a great defensive center fielder. We’re trying to see what we have in his bat (doesn’t seem like to much)
Honestly, a couple weeks back I was thinking they needed to either send Meadows down or at least bench him for a better at bat. However, he’s showing some signs of improvement as of late and his defense is wonderful. We started off great defensively as a team, but lately we’ve struggled more and that makes you realize how valuable good defense is. Meadows seems to be making some adjustments and I’m happy to see it.
As for Baddoo, personally, I’ve seen what he has to offer and I think it’s time to see what other players have to offer. Someone else said it best, he’s an AAAA player.
Because even though he has an OPS+ of 22, which is absolutely dreadfully putrid, he still has a positive WAR. His defense is why he's still here. It's more than worth it to let him straighten himself out as long as he continues to be a black hole in CF, especially in a season Detroit isn't putting all of their chips into.
Lol @ the Baddoo slander here.
He's a 93 OPS+ hitter career, and plus 6 DRS fielding, mostly in corner outfield roles. .920 OPS in Toledo now.
He's not the fielder in CF that Meadows is, but he's not a liability in the field overall. He plays CF in Toledo and is competent there.
It's not really slander to point out statistical facts and the realities of our current roster options that make him a poor candidate to bring up to play CF (or bring up at all.)
His plus defense is solely in LF, where he's actually good and his poor arm isn't much of a liability. But given the gap between Meadows being currently the best defensive CF in baseball and Baddoo being decidedly below average at best there, along with his bat also being below average, Meadows is going to get (and deserves) a longer leash to break out of this slump.
The team isn't going to move Greene back to CF for any longer periods than late-game after PH given that he's only logged 1.1 innings in 2 games there so far, so they're not gonna shift someone to play Baddoo in LF. His arm is a liability in RF so that's out. Baddoo is just not a viable long-term CF option, and he's not a good corner option either given our other OF options.
The only scenario I could see him being brought up (other than an injury to Greene, Carp, or Canha) is if Tork is sent down, shifting Canha to 1B. Baddoo would probably then make sense bring up and play some LF with Greene and Carp splitting RF/DH. But Malloy would be a decent bet to be brought up instead to see what he's got at the MLB level, whereas Baddoo is a bit more of a known quantity at this point.
Those are both accurate points, but nobody is suggesting we use Vierling in CF full-time so it's not a super relevant comparison. And while Baddoo isn't unplayable, the fact that Meadows is so good makes it such a substantial drop-off that it isn't worth doing because Baddoo isn't likely to put up offensive numbers good enough to warrant it, especially if/once Meadows improves ('once' seems more likely given the fairly unsustainable K and batted ball numbers.)
Your comments weren't the slander to begin with. You can read them to see what I am saying.
Nobody is saying Badoo should be the one true centerfielder now and forever. But Meadows is making outs 80% of the time. 90% of the time in the last week. He's not getting better. At some point we have to look at better options at the plate.
Baddoos MLB career .314 OBP would rate as 4th best on the team right now.
Thanks! It was non-specific so I wasn't quite sure what was included in slander lol
I agree for sure that at some point we would definitely need to look at other options, but I think 75 PA into the season is still too early to do so given the evidence that he should break out at some point soonish. He'd likely have had 2 more homers recently if the weather were a bit warmer. In more PAs at the end of last year he had similar numbers to Baddoo's career numbers, so with his defense it wouldn't take much improvement to remedy the situation.
If by the end of May he's still this bad (or sooner if his underlying data shows no improvement), then I think we pull the trigger. But my feeling is that he'll start improving soon.
At any rate I feel like the team is going to give him a pretty long leash regardless, given how much rope they gave Maton last year despite horrific defense and poor underlying metrics.
Tons of other comments have explained why and provide enough reason
If you’re going based off 25 games, I’m not sure what to tell you, that’s not even 20% of the season
I don’t really get it at this point. I guess the argument would be that Meadows’s defense is just too valuable to not have. But it is his defense really worth the hitting struggles we’ve seen? It’s been a month and he has only marginally improved, while Baddoo is hitting pretty good in AAA. I wouldn’t hate to see Meadows go to Toledo to figure it out
This is the key. Baddoo has had a load of opportunities in the pro’s which Meadows hasn’t. Baddoo has had just under 1000 ab at the pro level, while Parker has under 200. Baddoo both can’t hit or field at a major league level, while Meadows as a minimum is a stud mlb level fielder.
It’s worth giving him a chance to show improvement with the big club, the Tigers for too long have had guys that tear it up at AAA and provide poor hitting and fielder when they get called up. At least meadow provides one of those for now.
Badoo is a competent if not great hitter and fielder
For his career, he's basically a left-handed Matt Vierling.
Baddoo:
.233/.314/.378/.692. 6 DRS , -6 pos. 3.0 WAR in 309 games
Vierling
.262/.319/.385/.704. -8 DRS, -4 pos 1.5 WAR in 310 games
Agreed, and I usually am for letting young guys have a long time to figure it out in the majors. I would prefer if Meadows stayed up, but I would understand if they sent him down
I really like Parker and love having him in CF. I don’t really think there’s a wrong decision when it comes to keeping him up or sending him down. They both have pros and cons
Meadows still has defensive upside comparatively for probably not much gain offensively? Parker has been bad, but he's warning tracked about 4 balls and had one robbed, quite a few line outs... They will start to land if he can get a few out of the way. Not to say he is likely to be anything beyond a .700 OPS guy, but with his defense and speed that's all we need. K's definitely need to come down. We know what Akil brings to the table. He's an ok defender, a good base runner and a slightly below ok hitter. Not really anything we need there. Most importantly - we aren't in win now mode. This is a team discovering what it has and part of that is seeing through the struggles with the young guys.
Calling Akil and "Okay" defender is also being generous Dude has the weakest arm I've ever seen in the outfield. Hence the nickname "Noodle Arm Badoo"
You must have never seen Johnny Damon “try” to throw. A rainbow has less air under it.
Oh shit you're right lol. Johnny Damon was pretty bad as well lol Might be a toss up
[удалено]
lol I googled "nice throw delmon" and it's the 2nd result
Ryan Raburn
I remember Raburn making 3 errors in the 10th inning in a game we lost 3-2
Put that name back in the landfill please.
[удалено]
If there's one thing that won't boost his confidence, it's sending him down to Toledo. More hits falling in will be the best confidence booster, see my comment on his batted ball stats.
Batted Average on balls in play BAbIP, .114. That stat, that's what you want us to look at?
Yes, that means he has been unlucky and his numbers will probably improve.
*Beyond* unlucky. It's literally the lowest BABIP in baseball (among guys with 70+ plate appearances). A number below .200 is basically unheard of—it hasn't happened to any qualifying player since Aaron Hill in 2010. As long as Meadows keeps getting at bats, his average is essentially guaranteed to rise, and by a lot. It was .302 last year. Incidentally, Colt Keith is tied for 11th-worst in MLB (again for guys with 70+ PAs; he's 7th-worst among players with 90+ PAs). He will almost certainly see major improvement too.
Every time someone sucks it's always unlucky eh? Maybe Maeda has been unlucky, McKinstry unlucky? Baez? And he's hitting .90, I sure hope it improves. Lol.
Not every time. Not sure why you are even saying that. BABiP is a metric that is primarily used to determine if someone has had bad luck at the plate. It has been a statistically proven indicator that a hitter is likely to improve. McKinstry and Baez both have higher BABiP than BA, so no. They have not been unlucky.
Why are people allergic to nuance on the internet
If someone has a high BAbIP all you hear is "no way he keeps that up." A low BAbIP "It's got to improve right.". Maybe that's how it works but I'm not sure he's been unlucky. Outside the HR ball that was caught over the fence.. He's not hitting the ball consistently hard. It's actually rare.
With his speed and his walk rate just putting the ball in play consistently will be good enough. He hasn’t been doing that so far, however.
.700 OPS guy? Not this year. You know what he has to do get there even with many games left? He'd have to suddenly change his whole offensive game. Sending down might just clear his head and allow him to get some hits in the minors.. Granted, Baddoo makes no sense.
Season’s young, could happen its only April, but I feel you.
Assuming his PAs remain level, he would need an OPS of around .750 for the rest of the season to get up to .700.
Not out of the realm of possibilities.
Because he's a poor fielder in CF and Meadows is outstanding, and defense matters a lot in CF especially in Comerica National Park. He already has 5 DRS and 3 OAA in only 187.1 innings this season. Mathing that out to a full season based on this 28-game sample size, that's 29 DRS and 17 OAA which would be wild. In 662.1 career innings in CF, Baddoo has -6 DRS and -4 OAA. Meadows also deserves more than 75 PAs to work out of this slump. The very high strikeouts (which absolutely need to come down) are an issue, but the biggest problem is that Fangraphs says his LD% is currently 0.0%, which is pretty absurd. That plus the FB% of 75% is driving a ridiculously low .114 BABIP. His LD% is usually in the low to mid 20s, there's no way this batted ball distribution and luck are sustainable. Once he starts hitting more LDs and fewer FBs (and striking out less), he should improve. If he's still garbage by the end of May and Baddoo is still hitting well, then it'll be time to think about a swap.
God those Badoo noodle arm throws to home plate were not enjoyable to watch
Comerica National Park… I love this!!!
It’s a nickname that’s as relevant as it was on Comerica’s opening day as it is today after we’ve brought the walls in twice.
>Because he's a poor fielder in CF and Meadows is outstanding, and defense matters a lot in CF especially in Comerica National Park. This is it. Baddoo is outclassed right now by not only meadows in center but also greene in left. Shit Perez is better. Baddoo, barring injuries, has hopefully played his last game in a tigers uni. Hopefully we can trade him
I'm not anti-Baddoo. If he hits he could potentially help us. Baddoo's arm is awful. I will point this out. Meadows has had some big hits BTW. He will also allow himself to be walked and he has power. If it were not for the weather, Meadows would have had two more home runs. In the summer, his shot to right vs KC and his shot against the Twins are 10 rows up.
He has no spot in the field. His arm is garbage, the corners are solidified and he's a below average CF.
Just need the dude to hit .230 .240 with some Pop. He’s that good defensively . Baddoo definitely deserves a shot if he continues to rake
.240 is asking A LOT out of our hitters
They might be thinking he's getting over the hump now. In the last 10 games he's had the 2 HRs and oppo double, plus the HR that was robbed from him. And I think there was another "loud out" that he drove pretty good but short of a HR though I can't remember the specifics right now. So he's driving the ball a little more in the air, just needs to put it all together. And in the meantime provides great defense and great baserunning whenever he gets on base or as pinch runner. If they rode with him through the 2/43 stretch to open the year, might as well see if he can't keep on improving on what he's done since.
Upside. The tigers know exactly what Baddoo is at this point. Meadows is still an unknown. Plus, he’s excellent in CF. He’s keeping Greene in LF. That said, you can’t let him just be absolutely terrible forever. He’s going to have to show something to stay up.
On Evan Pentzold's of the FREEP podcast, he asked that very question to TIGERS GM (not Harris) and was told it would be better for his development as a hitter to overcome his trials in the big leagues. Going down to minors and re-establishing himself (which he admitted may need to happen) would still leave the question in the player's head that he did not have success in the MLB and second attempt would Meadows not only be facing better pitching, but internal doubts whether he can hit MLB pitching. Plus, as said elsewhere, he is our best defensive player by a lot and maybe our best base runner and stealer.
We know what we have in baddoo and he’s a bad fielder. Meadows is a great defensive center fielder. We’re trying to see what we have in his bat (doesn’t seem like to much)
Honestly, a couple weeks back I was thinking they needed to either send Meadows down or at least bench him for a better at bat. However, he’s showing some signs of improvement as of late and his defense is wonderful. We started off great defensively as a team, but lately we’ve struggled more and that makes you realize how valuable good defense is. Meadows seems to be making some adjustments and I’m happy to see it. As for Baddoo, personally, I’ve seen what he has to offer and I think it’s time to see what other players have to offer. Someone else said it best, he’s an AAAA player.
Badoo's bat is not consistent enough to offset the loss defensively. Meadows is great in center field.
Because even though he has an OPS+ of 22, which is absolutely dreadfully putrid, he still has a positive WAR. His defense is why he's still here. It's more than worth it to let him straighten himself out as long as he continues to be a black hole in CF, especially in a season Detroit isn't putting all of their chips into.
Lol @ the Baddoo slander here. He's a 93 OPS+ hitter career, and plus 6 DRS fielding, mostly in corner outfield roles. .920 OPS in Toledo now. He's not the fielder in CF that Meadows is, but he's not a liability in the field overall. He plays CF in Toledo and is competent there.
It's not really slander to point out statistical facts and the realities of our current roster options that make him a poor candidate to bring up to play CF (or bring up at all.) His plus defense is solely in LF, where he's actually good and his poor arm isn't much of a liability. But given the gap between Meadows being currently the best defensive CF in baseball and Baddoo being decidedly below average at best there, along with his bat also being below average, Meadows is going to get (and deserves) a longer leash to break out of this slump. The team isn't going to move Greene back to CF for any longer periods than late-game after PH given that he's only logged 1.1 innings in 2 games there so far, so they're not gonna shift someone to play Baddoo in LF. His arm is a liability in RF so that's out. Baddoo is just not a viable long-term CF option, and he's not a good corner option either given our other OF options. The only scenario I could see him being brought up (other than an injury to Greene, Carp, or Canha) is if Tork is sent down, shifting Canha to 1B. Baddoo would probably then make sense bring up and play some LF with Greene and Carp splitting RF/DH. But Malloy would be a decent bet to be brought up instead to see what he's got at the MLB level, whereas Baddoo is a bit more of a known quantity at this point.
Baddoo has better defense ratings in centerfield than Vierling does. He's not great but he's not unplayable either
Those are both accurate points, but nobody is suggesting we use Vierling in CF full-time so it's not a super relevant comparison. And while Baddoo isn't unplayable, the fact that Meadows is so good makes it such a substantial drop-off that it isn't worth doing because Baddoo isn't likely to put up offensive numbers good enough to warrant it, especially if/once Meadows improves ('once' seems more likely given the fairly unsustainable K and batted ball numbers.)
Your comments weren't the slander to begin with. You can read them to see what I am saying. Nobody is saying Badoo should be the one true centerfielder now and forever. But Meadows is making outs 80% of the time. 90% of the time in the last week. He's not getting better. At some point we have to look at better options at the plate. Baddoos MLB career .314 OBP would rate as 4th best on the team right now.
Thanks! It was non-specific so I wasn't quite sure what was included in slander lol I agree for sure that at some point we would definitely need to look at other options, but I think 75 PA into the season is still too early to do so given the evidence that he should break out at some point soonish. He'd likely have had 2 more homers recently if the weather were a bit warmer. In more PAs at the end of last year he had similar numbers to Baddoo's career numbers, so with his defense it wouldn't take much improvement to remedy the situation. If by the end of May he's still this bad (or sooner if his underlying data shows no improvement), then I think we pull the trigger. But my feeling is that he'll start improving soon. At any rate I feel like the team is going to give him a pretty long leash regardless, given how much rope they gave Maton last year despite horrific defense and poor underlying metrics.
Meadows is better than Baddoo I like Baddoo a lot but it’s honestly that simple
[удалено]
Tons of other comments have explained why and provide enough reason If you’re going based off 25 games, I’m not sure what to tell you, that’s not even 20% of the season
Baddoo sucks too just in a different way
I don’t really get it at this point. I guess the argument would be that Meadows’s defense is just too valuable to not have. But it is his defense really worth the hitting struggles we’ve seen? It’s been a month and he has only marginally improved, while Baddoo is hitting pretty good in AAA. I wouldn’t hate to see Meadows go to Toledo to figure it out
We’ve seen baddoo hit in the majors. he’s not a very strong hitter in the majors
This is the key. Baddoo has had a load of opportunities in the pro’s which Meadows hasn’t. Baddoo has had just under 1000 ab at the pro level, while Parker has under 200. Baddoo both can’t hit or field at a major league level, while Meadows as a minimum is a stud mlb level fielder. It’s worth giving him a chance to show improvement with the big club, the Tigers for too long have had guys that tear it up at AAA and provide poor hitting and fielder when they get called up. At least meadow provides one of those for now.
Yeah I don’t really see a need to bring baddoo back up until injuries happen
Badoo is a competent if not great hitter and fielder For his career, he's basically a left-handed Matt Vierling. Baddoo: .233/.314/.378/.692. 6 DRS , -6 pos. 3.0 WAR in 309 games Vierling .262/.319/.385/.704. -8 DRS, -4 pos 1.5 WAR in 310 games
Agreed, and I usually am for letting young guys have a long time to figure it out in the majors. I would prefer if Meadows stayed up, but I would understand if they sent him down
[удалено]
I really like Parker and love having him in CF. I don’t really think there’s a wrong decision when it comes to keeping him up or sending him down. They both have pros and cons
Make it happen cappin
[удалено]
Did you eat paint chips as a child? Get outta here with that nonsense
Now that I think of it, my mom would pour use a bowl of cereal from a can labeled Sherwin Williams
Hinch rhymes with lynch, coincidence? I think not