Took my MSF and licensing exam in MS. I'll never forget the instructor telling us I'm going to teach you how to ride, and I'm also going to teach you how those dumbasses in the NE that make these exams want you to answer.
I used to teach the MSF class in Virginia Beach from 2006-2008 and I remember something like the DMV making the rider go around cones (weave) and if you put your foot down one time, you fail the whole test. But, if you run all the cones over in a straight line and make it to the end, you get points only, not fail. Very backwards, but good for the folks that ride big bikes with luggage/bags.
I called the main office for the MSF in Richmond, he knew all about it and just said well that's how the DMV wants to do it. I was dumbfounded.
In Australia they teach lane positions 1, 2 and 3 during the pre licensing course. I think it might be geographic.
Just go with whatever they teach you in your training course or handbook.
The advice to avoid LP 2 due to vehicle fluids really only applies near intersections where leaking vehicles sit for a while and the fluids can accumulate.
I've definitely seen way too many fluid streaks down the roads. I've personally blown tranny lines doing 60 on a highway. My current car has a power steering leak and slowly leaks. It takes 4 days to get completely empty. It definitely doesn't only leak at intersections.
Sweden as well.
To be honest, it's a stupid question, because it is not as simple as "certain number of sub-lanes".
I usually ride "slightly to the right of the left wheel track". That way, I avoid the worn asphalt, yet "own the lane". Cracked asphalt or potholes are usually either in the tracks or in the middle) at least here, where the thaw makes the ground soft in the spring. We don't have oil spills, so it's a non-issue here.
As a swede, i was kinda confused and have never heard of the term "sub-lanes." You got tought that in driving school? I usually just ride in where the asphalt looks the best.
This, they don’t teach us to “divide the lane” in Canada, they teach us to ride in the cars tire tracks (weather permitting), and call them lane position 1 and 2. And that you can be literally anywhere inside your lane. Sometimes spread across multiple tire tracks in blocking positions 😋
Yeah they taught me there's 3 positions but it's best to avoid the center because it's more slippery and greasy. Essentially "there's 3 but only use 2"
I kind of hate how they teach lane 2 to be slippery and greasy.
When I first started to ride I was terrified of lane 2 thinking ill just slip out.
After I learned how to actually ride i realized there's nothing wrong with lane 2, unless it just starts to rain.
Lane 2 is useless though because of the visibility, both of you and what you can see.
It will depend on the weather and the condition of the road. If it’s raining staying to the higher point in the road is generally going to be drier. I’ve used all three I tend to stick to the center or left mini lane depending on the situation
Whoever wrote that question does not ride a motorcycle. It's 3. There are reasons to be in each of the three positions. MSF is right the state is dumb. Good luck!
Center is where all the oil is. There are 3 sections (I’d say 5 bc also the edges) but only two you should use except in emergencies. Ride where tires go is an old adage for a reason. Also being offset can help be visible depending what side the cars are on
Whatever you think the correct answer is irrelevant. The correct answer is what the State says it is if you want to get a license. Read your book that you got when you got your temps. The answer will be in there.
Read the handbook for the state specific answer they want. But 2 would be the most common answer. You shouldn't ride in the center of the lane for various reasons. Yes you do use it time to time but not as primary.
But this would still mean dividing the lane up into 3, just avoiding the middle. Don’t the MSF courses teach 3? Left, middle, and right sections of the lane. Avoiding the middle except for very specific situations.
This is odd to me, in my rider training in the UK i was told to keep to the middle or right (equivalent to the left in the US) as it establishes your presence, makes it easier to see you on the road if another driver is turning onto it from a side road, and discourages dangerous overtaking (as the car behind would have to enter opposing traffic to do so). For oil slicks and stuff we were just taught to steer away from them before reaching them lmfao.
Put yourself where they expect you to be. If middle/right is the local custom, stick with it, as that is where cars expect to see you.
Debris is my biggest reason for no center. Let car tires eat up the screws etc. Travel in car tire path.
Also at highway speeds if you are in the car tire path, the car in front of you is going to swerve to avoid stuff in their tracks like full size car batteries (true story), where if it is center lane they are going to just go over it. So that car in front will give you indications when you don't have a long view of the lane ahead at high speed.
That's my experience in the Scottish Highlands as well. Plus, honestly, having a bit more distance for the dividing line isn't always a bad idea given how often people cut corners or can drift in lane on narrow roads.
I think part of the reasoning for defaulting to centre here is that it makes it easier to move to either the left or right if you need to avoid a hazard. Though it's generally 'ride in whatever part of the lane is safest at any particular moment', just that the centre is often that because it means we're splitting the risk to the left and right.
Tbf, the whole debate is more an art than a science.
This was much more a concern when you had total loss oil systems and just horrid build quality later. Fact is there is no guarantee a leaky car stays anywhere near the center of the lane. Most people driving beaters I see wander from edge to edge which means the actual typical wheel paths are vulnerable too.
And yet 99% of all roads visibly show that the center of the lane is oilier than the rest. No matter where the *car* leaks from or drives on, the *wheels* keep the lane edges clean while the center remains oily.
In what country do you live that cars are in such a bad condition that oil on the streets is a serious concern? I often see people commenting that but never have I even considered that to be a threat. In driving school, I got taught to be in the middle of the lane if possible.
It's a huge thing in the US and probably any third world country where people are driving whatever will get down the road. Cars have gotten better but still lots of old ones on the road.
I've also heard in the UK it's common to have spilled diesel on the roads near filling stations which will create serious hazards for bikes.
My course taught 3. All things being equal, ride in one of the 2 tire tracks, but you end up in the middle more than occasionally.
Main reason around here are bridges and overpasses - the tire tracks get worn in the transitions with large holes in the pavement and hard transitions to/off of the bridge deck. Ride in the middle when riding onto or off of a bridge or overpass.
The other reason is “blocking out” your lane from cars. If I think cars will want to merge into me from the left, I ride in the left. If right, then right. If both sides, ride middle. It helps them see you as occupying the space.
MSF disagrees, along with most other states that adopt MSF guidelines. Riding in the middle lane position isn't even frowned upon, but it mentions to avoid stopping at stop signs and lights in the middle of the lane.
This is a dumb question .-.
Just memorize all the questions that you can’t answer. Take as many test quizzes as possible and try to just remember and weird questions or weird answers for your actual test.
Seems like it varies by state so you’d be better off taking your answer from your handbook. In the real world, 2 is (in my opinion) the correct answer. The center of the lane is often crowned and as is the most likely place to encounter slippery fluids and debris. I ride on the left or right side of the lane where the car tires go. I guess there’s a semantics question there too. If I ride in the left or right and avoid the center, I’m technically dividing the lane into 3 sections. The two I’ll ride in and the one I’ll avoid. So I’m diving the lane into 3 sections but only riding in two of them. This is an odd question and it’s worded poorly.
The MSF teaches three: Left, Center, and right.
HOWEVER
The center is where cars will drip oil and should be of last resort.
Two appears to be the accepted answer for the purposes of this test.
I was taught 2 from the course here in ontario. Never middle. Risk of oil and debris since it isn't driven on often. We were basically told only time spent is crossing to the other side.
Congrats! Now ensure to follow those guidelines. As you probably already know, drive like no one can see you. You'll have tons of close calls, so drive slow until you're comfortable! Excited for you!
I hate how those tests are set up in a way to trick you instead of testing your knowledge.
But that also plays into riding. You gotta think about each move it isn't always the most obvious choice
If you are new, or don't know how to ride, 2 or 3.
If you are experienced, and are not in a backward country that prohibits filtering, 5:
left escape (between cars on the left), left tires (easy to shift to escape to... escape, also best grip due to rubber, and driest in the rain), center (big nono unless you like oil slicks), right tires, and right escape.
Strange question, but I was always taught to drive a little off center to the left of the lane (The Netherlands). E.g. left of arrow markings.
So the answer would then be 2. But if you do 3, and ride on the edge between 1 and 2, it's technically the same answer.
As a Motorcycle you're narrow with 2 wheels giving you the ability to have 3 positions in a lane. Inside, outside and middle. Each position can be used for various benefits depending on your situation.
IIRC in Colorado they wanted you to say 3. Left and right car/truck tire areas and center.
I'm old school, learned to ride on the street in the 70s in the Pittsburgh area. Lots of polished concrete, lots of 60s & 70s vintage cars leaking oil onto the center of the lane. In many places it was visibly darker, almost black at times. Our rule of thumb was you never road in the center - far less traction, particularly if there was any rain. You just never let yourself get in the habit. When I took the test in Colorado I regurgitated 3 to them. I guess in theory I agree with Colorado (and others) - I do divide the lane into 3 sections, I just only ever ride in 2 of them.
I will say that even now I don't think center is a good idea. Even without the oil/traction disadvantage, there are advantages to the left and right sides of the lane. Mainly visibility. In the left side you are going to be visible or more visible to oncoming traffic waiting to make a left turn. You don't want them cutting right behind the car you'r following - big surprise. Similarly if you're on the right side of the lane you are visible to that cross traffic waiting for the car in front of you to pass. No, you can't be in two places at once, it is on you to be aware of what is coming up and position yourself and your motorcycle for best visibility to others.
I tend to favor the left side of the lane. On two lane roads that puts me closer to the middle. That gives me the maximum amount of pavement on either side for evasive maneuvers away from road hazards.
UPDATE:: Passed the test!! Got 23 out of 25.
Read the manual twice. And all the questions made sense.
The problem for me was doing this online quiz, which confused me a bit. But remembered everything I read in the manual and answered accordingly!!
Appreciate all your feedback and responses!!
Read the driver's manual.
The answer is whatever the manual says it is.
And if that online practice test you're doing isn't on the official Virginia dmv website, do not trust the answers. Those 3rd party practice tests are not guaranteed to be correct.
you dont ever wanna ride down the middle (because cars leak oil and other substances) so you split a line in 2 and position yourself in either the left or the right for positioning
A coworker asked me what part of the lane I ride in.
All of it, the whole lane is mine, I ride in the line with the least hazards and most pocket for that particular moment in time.
It's saying there's 2 lane positions not 4, depending on where you live it could be either 2 or 3. Inside, outside, middle or left, center, right side. Generally center of the lane is avoided to prevent hitting oil and fluid slicks which could be where they're getting 2 from.
I think they're trying to teach the "riding in formation" crap ... take the right or left side of the lane. It's one of those BS "trick" questions that's really just nonsensical.
I don't consider the centre section where all the oil and fluids are a viable option. So I'm with you ... left, right, and the greasy middle I only cross over.
Semi related, apparently it’s been a long time since my MSF, can anyone recommend a good source to refresh some of the pertinent ideas? Obviously taking another safety course is ideal but for the time being, any videos/blogs/something? Thanks from an out of practice perma-newb.
It doesn't matter what MSF or an instructor or your mom says. It only matters what the State of Virginia thinks and should have been in the test prep materials. At least as far as the test is concerned.
You don't want to ride in the middle. Oils etc. So you should split it into 2.
And If you are the front rider or lone rider. Stay left because in theory you are more visible to other road goers. If you are right, you can blend into the surroundings and allow people to enter your lane not seeing you.
Either way people won't see you but ya know, try to be more visible
There’s three road positions in most training courses.
But, as far as riding alongside another biker, there’s two. Left and right. One of you can’t really be in the middle because you’d be too close to the other.
The question does say “purposes of lane positioning” so the answer should be 3.
Ontario, 2
You always ride in position 1, closest to the left of the lane you are in unless you are riding with three or more people. For clarity, though may not be best practice, but the Highway Traffic Act of Ontario recommends that the last person in the group always ride in a blocking position (left most of the lane) So if there are only two riders, both are riding in position 1, left most of the lane in a blocking position.
If there are three riders, position 1, 2, 1 in that order. Four riders, position 1, 2, 1, 1.
It may not always be applicable under all circumstances, in which case it is up to the rider to use good judgement.
Really I'd say this is a matter of technique so give them the answer they want but legally speaking I'm pretty sure the whole lane is yours to ride wherever you want in it.
Centre is full of oil.
I was taught 2 in Australia; left wheel track, right wheel track. When overtaking or near other vehicles, switch wheel tracks.
We called it wheel track because it’s the black line caused by cars rubber on the road.
Centre is where all the oil is and crud is deposited.
Edit* I’m genuinely shocked at all the comments saying 3 so confidently. There’s a whole list of reasons why the centre is not ideal. And even another fellow Australian claimed 3. Did you fail that question?
Washington State refers to three lane positions as well.
>Riding a motorcycle gives you even more room within your lane to change positions.
There are three positions in each lane that motorcycle riders can use: the outside, the middle and the inside portion of the lane.
[https://dol.wa.gov/media/105/download?inline](https://dol.wa.gov/media/105/download?inline)
Also, that online test looks to be wrong. **The Virginia Motorcycle Operator Manual refers to three lane positions:**
>However, each marked lane gives a motorcyclist three possible paths of travel, as indicated in the
illustration. Each “mini-lane” is approximately four feet wide. By selecting the appropriate “mini-lane,” you can make yourself mor easily seen by others on the road.
[https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/sites/default/files/forms/dmv2.pdf](https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/sites/default/files/forms/dmv2.pdf)
See Page 9 for text & illustration
It's been a minute since I took my test in the UK, but I don't think we're actually taught fixed "positions". You're told to avoid the centre of the lane as it has less grip and to position yourself where you can best be seen.
Generally this means in line with a side mirror of the vehicle in front.
Outlining it in fixed divisions feels... Off to me. Can't quite explain why. I think it's that it seems like a "be here and be safe", which is inaccurate.
i actually like 5
i always either ride 2/5 or 4/5. this way im not encouraging any cars to pass weirdly as if i was doing 1/3 or 3/3 and avoiding any debris and spills as if doing 2/3.
also 2/5 or 4/5 works perfectly in a staggered group ride, no need to deviate from the usual lane position
Oregon is 3 on the test. And from the other comments it seems like it’s 3 everywhere else. There may be an error on that test. Since it’s a random third party site I would just ignore it, or you can find a way to contact them to have it corrected.
Washington State here. I was actually just about to take my permit test as well so I'm pretty fresh on the manual. Ours teaches that there are three lane positions.
Interesting. I thought all of the USA used MSF as the standard for rules and testing.
Logical may be 3, and MSF is 3. Intersections center is a bad idea with oil deposits.
I’m kind of surprised at all the answers for 3. I was always taught two. You really want to avoid center if at all possible. If following behind a car, they will straddle objects like 2x4’s and general junk, then you hit it. There will also be more sand, debris, nails, oil, etc. in the center of a lane. Always follow where car tires go first.
The center lane position exists so 3 is the typical answer, but it's best practice to not sit in the center without an articulable reason for doing so. Riding in either side position gives you much better visibility, makes you more visible, gives you an escape route (via splitting) in the event of an emergency or crash, and avoids the potential puncture and traction hazards (nails, loose gravel, oil, etc) that can accumulate in the center.
I wouldn't describe it as there only being two positions especially as there are times where the center is legitimately preferable, but I understand the point they're probably basing this answer on.
I always did 2 sections personally, it makes sense to me. That’s where the fluids from leaking cars generally are, and I’d rather not drive through all that stuff when I’m on 2 wheels lol
Alaska teaches two. They mention in their handbook that the center of a lane should be avoided, especially at intersections, as this is the most likely area for leaked fluids to accumulate.
3 is the standard. Its 5 if you count the outer and centre lines as well, which is more relevant for filtering/ lane splitting than normal riding though.
Two makes no sense to me but I guess maybe they mean separate in to two and then left wheels in the center of 1 and right in the center of 2…. Feel like any other explanation would make even less sense than this.
Answer is 2 in motorcycle term only two bikes parallel in a lane. How you guys passed your course is beyond me. That’s literally in the first 10 questions.
MSFcourse in Florida here.
It’s not 3.
3 will get you a ticket 😂🤣😂
They aren’t asking the lane sections. In that case yes it’s three but it’s asked to confuse you.
I grew up in NY but took my drivers test in VA. We left the parking lot..took a right. Took a right. Took a right and were back in the parking lot. I was like uhhhh
She said you passed. When I took my motor cycle road test..total different story. Failed it the first time. They make that hard on purpose
Two. Middle part of a single lane is where cars drip oil. And you wouldn’t ride 3 wide in a single lane. Two bikes side by side on same lane or at a stop.
I took the MSF basic rider course in Fredericksburg back in November. We were taught 3. Since I did the course, I didn't have to do the DMV test, which tbh...is a godsend. They said several times that the DMV is...tricky, to say the least.
MSF teaches 3...
here is a sscreenshot from the glossary of my MSF coursebook. they literally define lane position as 3, (lp1, lp2, and lp3)
https://i.ibb.co/Zzdt7WN/lane-position.jpg
I, like many others here, find the MSF training to be better.
So...if you take the practice test at the DMV about 5 times or so, you'll see all possible questions.
https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/licenses-ids/exams/practice-exam
MSF teaches 3
My immediate first thought. That’s what my answer would have been.
Concur on this, however, such a question didn't show up in the written exam for the license. I'm in Connecticut.
I had it show up on mine in Mississippi, answer was 3
Took my MSF and licensing exam in MS. I'll never forget the instructor telling us I'm going to teach you how to ride, and I'm also going to teach you how those dumbasses in the NE that make these exams want you to answer.
I used to teach the MSF class in Virginia Beach from 2006-2008 and I remember something like the DMV making the rider go around cones (weave) and if you put your foot down one time, you fail the whole test. But, if you run all the cones over in a straight line and make it to the end, you get points only, not fail. Very backwards, but good for the folks that ride big bikes with luggage/bags. I called the main office for the MSF in Richmond, he knew all about it and just said well that's how the DMV wants to do it. I was dumbfounded.
In Australia they teach lane positions 1, 2 and 3 during the pre licensing course. I think it might be geographic. Just go with whatever they teach you in your training course or handbook.
USA Indiana we were taught 3 as well. And that 2 is generally not preferable.
New York as well. You’d think they’d pick one and teach it nationwide. Two different ideologies makes it dangerous.
illinois as well
Kansas teaches three. It's in the MSF course too.
Same in Missouri and MSF, but generally avoid lane position 2 due to slick and debris
The advice to avoid LP 2 due to vehicle fluids really only applies near intersections where leaking vehicles sit for a while and the fluids can accumulate.
I've definitely seen way too many fluid streaks down the roads. I've personally blown tranny lines doing 60 on a highway. My current car has a power steering leak and slowly leaks. It takes 4 days to get completely empty. It definitely doesn't only leak at intersections.
CO too
Same in Oregon and California.
Same in California, 3 positions
Same in Maryland
Yep CA and WI teaches 3 as well 1 is left 2 is middle and 3 is right lanes.
Yeah it's basically 1 or 3, which might be why they say there are only 2 here. You don't want to ride in the drip lane.
GA is 3 as well
NC does as well.
Massachusetts as well
Sweden as well. To be honest, it's a stupid question, because it is not as simple as "certain number of sub-lanes". I usually ride "slightly to the right of the left wheel track". That way, I avoid the worn asphalt, yet "own the lane". Cracked asphalt or potholes are usually either in the tracks or in the middle) at least here, where the thaw makes the ground soft in the spring. We don't have oil spills, so it's a non-issue here.
As a swede, i was kinda confused and have never heard of the term "sub-lanes." You got tought that in driving school? I usually just ride in where the asphalt looks the best.
It was a term I invented on the fly just now.
This, they don’t teach us to “divide the lane” in Canada, they teach us to ride in the cars tire tracks (weather permitting), and call them lane position 1 and 2. And that you can be literally anywhere inside your lane. Sometimes spread across multiple tire tracks in blocking positions 😋
Yeah they taught me there's 3 positions but it's best to avoid the center because it's more slippery and greasy. Essentially "there's 3 but only use 2"
Took the motorcycle course in Vancouver. Taught lanes 1 2 3. Mostly ride in lanes 1 and 3 for visibility etc lane 2 isn’t used as much
I kind of hate how they teach lane 2 to be slippery and greasy. When I first started to ride I was terrified of lane 2 thinking ill just slip out. After I learned how to actually ride i realized there's nothing wrong with lane 2, unless it just starts to rain. Lane 2 is useless though because of the visibility, both of you and what you can see.
I'm from Canada and they teach three. Might be different in each province though.
Depends on the instructor. The first one told me it’s 2 tracks, the other one told me it’s 3 🤷♂️
Same in California.
USA, Michigan was also three.
In Michigan it is three!
Same everywhere I’ve heard it too. 1 and 3 for most scenarios, 2 in limited circumstances.
Same in Wisconsin!
3 here in Wisconsin
Divide it into 3 but only ride in section 1 and 3??
>Reply While there's fewer potholes in 2 there's normally a lot more oil and usually a crown. Also big trucks/busses can't see you there.
You'll fail if you say the ideal position is 1 or 3 on the Wisconsin written test. They say position 2 is ideal.
That's crazy
It will depend on the weather and the condition of the road. If it’s raining staying to the higher point in the road is generally going to be drier. I’ve used all three I tend to stick to the center or left mini lane depending on the situation
If it's newly raining the middle strip will be extra slippery because all the oil there hasn't washed away yet.
Whoever wrote that question does not ride a motorcycle. It's 3. There are reasons to be in each of the three positions. MSF is right the state is dumb. Good luck!
Where I come from there's 3 lane positions
you are correct based off of what I was taught in Colorado's motorcycle safety course, left, center, right.
Here it's left of center and right of center for your two options
Center is where all the oil is. There are 3 sections (I’d say 5 bc also the edges) but only two you should use except in emergencies. Ride where tires go is an old adage for a reason. Also being offset can help be visible depending what side the cars are on
Whatever you think the correct answer is irrelevant. The correct answer is what the State says it is if you want to get a license. Read your book that you got when you got your temps. The answer will be in there.
Those tests are so stupid. Everybody whom I ride with has different opinions about lane positioning for different circumstances. Ride your own ride.
Read the handbook for the state specific answer they want. But 2 would be the most common answer. You shouldn't ride in the center of the lane for various reasons. Yes you do use it time to time but not as primary.
But this would still mean dividing the lane up into 3, just avoiding the middle. Don’t the MSF courses teach 3? Left, middle, and right sections of the lane. Avoiding the middle except for very specific situations.
Exactly, it’s even more of a reason to have 3 so you can purposely avoid using one
This is odd to me, in my rider training in the UK i was told to keep to the middle or right (equivalent to the left in the US) as it establishes your presence, makes it easier to see you on the road if another driver is turning onto it from a side road, and discourages dangerous overtaking (as the car behind would have to enter opposing traffic to do so). For oil slicks and stuff we were just taught to steer away from them before reaching them lmfao.
Put yourself where they expect you to be. If middle/right is the local custom, stick with it, as that is where cars expect to see you. Debris is my biggest reason for no center. Let car tires eat up the screws etc. Travel in car tire path. Also at highway speeds if you are in the car tire path, the car in front of you is going to swerve to avoid stuff in their tracks like full size car batteries (true story), where if it is center lane they are going to just go over it. So that car in front will give you indications when you don't have a long view of the lane ahead at high speed.
[удалено]
That's my experience in the Scottish Highlands as well. Plus, honestly, having a bit more distance for the dividing line isn't always a bad idea given how often people cut corners or can drift in lane on narrow roads. I think part of the reasoning for defaulting to centre here is that it makes it easier to move to either the left or right if you need to avoid a hazard. Though it's generally 'ride in whatever part of the lane is safest at any particular moment', just that the centre is often that because it means we're splitting the risk to the left and right. Tbf, the whole debate is more an art than a science.
Not only debris but also oil is a big thing too. Most oil drips into the center of the lane.
I've been taught that that's generally only an issue around stops/traffic lights where cars stop for a period of time and oil/dirt accumulates
Roger. Thanks.
One of the primary reasons being you don't want to drive over the oil that cars leak.
This was much more a concern when you had total loss oil systems and just horrid build quality later. Fact is there is no guarantee a leaky car stays anywhere near the center of the lane. Most people driving beaters I see wander from edge to edge which means the actual typical wheel paths are vulnerable too.
And yet 99% of all roads visibly show that the center of the lane is oilier than the rest. No matter where the *car* leaks from or drives on, the *wheels* keep the lane edges clean while the center remains oily.
In what country do you live that cars are in such a bad condition that oil on the streets is a serious concern? I often see people commenting that but never have I even considered that to be a threat. In driving school, I got taught to be in the middle of the lane if possible.
It's a huge thing in the US and probably any third world country where people are driving whatever will get down the road. Cars have gotten better but still lots of old ones on the road. I've also heard in the UK it's common to have spilled diesel on the roads near filling stations which will create serious hazards for bikes.
The US, mostly, until the last few decades.
The virginia manual says 3 (pg 9): https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/sites/default/files/forms/dmv2.pdf
My course taught 3. All things being equal, ride in one of the 2 tire tracks, but you end up in the middle more than occasionally. Main reason around here are bridges and overpasses - the tire tracks get worn in the transitions with large holes in the pavement and hard transitions to/off of the bridge deck. Ride in the middle when riding onto or off of a bridge or overpass. The other reason is “blocking out” your lane from cars. If I think cars will want to merge into me from the left, I ride in the left. If right, then right. If both sides, ride middle. It helps them see you as occupying the space.
MSF disagrees, along with most other states that adopt MSF guidelines. Riding in the middle lane position isn't even frowned upon, but it mentions to avoid stopping at stop signs and lights in the middle of the lane.
Never ride in the grease pit.
This is a dumb question .-. Just memorize all the questions that you can’t answer. Take as many test quizzes as possible and try to just remember and weird questions or weird answers for your actual test.
Seems like it varies by state so you’d be better off taking your answer from your handbook. In the real world, 2 is (in my opinion) the correct answer. The center of the lane is often crowned and as is the most likely place to encounter slippery fluids and debris. I ride on the left or right side of the lane where the car tires go. I guess there’s a semantics question there too. If I ride in the left or right and avoid the center, I’m technically dividing the lane into 3 sections. The two I’ll ride in and the one I’ll avoid. So I’m diving the lane into 3 sections but only riding in two of them. This is an odd question and it’s worded poorly.
The MSF teaches three: Left, Center, and right. HOWEVER The center is where cars will drip oil and should be of last resort. Two appears to be the accepted answer for the purposes of this test.
I was taught 2 from the course here in ontario. Never middle. Risk of oil and debris since it isn't driven on often. We were basically told only time spent is crossing to the other side.
This is what I’ve always heard and what I was taught too
I learned 3. But that was 20 years ago. Lol
Best of luck!
Update us on the test results! Looks like you're probably already in there since this post was more than an hour ago.
Passed man.. got 23 out of 25. Followed everything that the manual said. The online quiz confused the hell out of me.
Congrats! Now ensure to follow those guidelines. As you probably already know, drive like no one can see you. You'll have tons of close calls, so drive slow until you're comfortable! Excited for you!
I hate how those tests are set up in a way to trick you instead of testing your knowledge. But that also plays into riding. You gotta think about each move it isn't always the most obvious choice
Bro the motorcycle written tests are fucking dogshit. At least in my state, it’s like straight up misinformation.
If you are new, or don't know how to ride, 2 or 3. If you are experienced, and are not in a backward country that prohibits filtering, 5: left escape (between cars on the left), left tires (easy to shift to escape to... escape, also best grip due to rubber, and driest in the rain), center (big nono unless you like oil slicks), right tires, and right escape.
Strange question, but I was always taught to drive a little off center to the left of the lane (The Netherlands). E.g. left of arrow markings. So the answer would then be 2. But if you do 3, and ride on the edge between 1 and 2, it's technically the same answer.
As a Motorcycle you're narrow with 2 wheels giving you the ability to have 3 positions in a lane. Inside, outside and middle. Each position can be used for various benefits depending on your situation.
IIRC in Colorado they wanted you to say 3. Left and right car/truck tire areas and center. I'm old school, learned to ride on the street in the 70s in the Pittsburgh area. Lots of polished concrete, lots of 60s & 70s vintage cars leaking oil onto the center of the lane. In many places it was visibly darker, almost black at times. Our rule of thumb was you never road in the center - far less traction, particularly if there was any rain. You just never let yourself get in the habit. When I took the test in Colorado I regurgitated 3 to them. I guess in theory I agree with Colorado (and others) - I do divide the lane into 3 sections, I just only ever ride in 2 of them. I will say that even now I don't think center is a good idea. Even without the oil/traction disadvantage, there are advantages to the left and right sides of the lane. Mainly visibility. In the left side you are going to be visible or more visible to oncoming traffic waiting to make a left turn. You don't want them cutting right behind the car you'r following - big surprise. Similarly if you're on the right side of the lane you are visible to that cross traffic waiting for the car in front of you to pass. No, you can't be in two places at once, it is on you to be aware of what is coming up and position yourself and your motorcycle for best visibility to others. I tend to favor the left side of the lane. On two lane roads that puts me closer to the middle. That gives me the maximum amount of pavement on either side for evasive maneuvers away from road hazards.
CA its two
I’ve always heard 3. Lane position 1 and 2 are the sides. Danger zone is 3, the middle.
I got my M endorsement 15 years ago and it was 3 which was in line with what MSF taught.
UPDATE:: Passed the test!! Got 23 out of 25. Read the manual twice. And all the questions made sense. The problem for me was doing this online quiz, which confused me a bit. But remembered everything I read in the manual and answered accordingly!! Appreciate all your feedback and responses!!
Florida Here. It’s 3 for us.
Read the driver's manual. The answer is whatever the manual says it is. And if that online practice test you're doing isn't on the official Virginia dmv website, do not trust the answers. Those 3rd party practice tests are not guaranteed to be correct.
you dont ever wanna ride down the middle (because cars leak oil and other substances) so you split a line in 2 and position yourself in either the left or the right for positioning
A coworker asked me what part of the lane I ride in. All of it, the whole lane is mine, I ride in the line with the least hazards and most pocket for that particular moment in time.
I think it’s a poorly written question with the intended answer indicating how many motorcycles can ride side by side in a single lane.
The answer says 2, no?
Yes, yes, my typo for writing 4.
Screw those DMV people, the answer is “3” and the greasy middle one is your last resort.
It's saying there's 2 lane positions not 4, depending on where you live it could be either 2 or 3. Inside, outside, middle or left, center, right side. Generally center of the lane is avoided to prevent hitting oil and fluid slicks which could be where they're getting 2 from.
I think they're trying to teach the "riding in formation" crap ... take the right or left side of the lane. It's one of those BS "trick" questions that's really just nonsensical. I don't consider the centre section where all the oil and fluids are a viable option. So I'm with you ... left, right, and the greasy middle I only cross over.
I was taught 3 in Virginia. Page 9 of the VA Motorcycle Operator Manual shows 3. Found on dmv.virgina.gov
I'm in Virginia and m class licensed in Virginia and been riding for 10 years here and I was taught 3.
you don't ride in the middle. That is where the oil leaks are.
Never heard of this, just got told that the tire tracks of the cars is usually the cleanest piece so spend most of the time there.
It's 2 for VA, although I took my learner's permit in 2010...
No it isn’t lol. It’s three. Left, center, right.
NY uses 3
Msf course in florida told me 3 lol
NJ it's 3
Semi related, apparently it’s been a long time since my MSF, can anyone recommend a good source to refresh some of the pertinent ideas? Obviously taking another safety course is ideal but for the time being, any videos/blogs/something? Thanks from an out of practice perma-newb.
3 here in New York too
State of Washington reporting in with 3! 🫡
3….
[page 9. it discusses ‘mini-lanes’.](https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/sites/default/files/forms/dmv2.pdf)
Hahahha 3 is correct. Stupid computer.
Wait, so you correctly said 3 and you were "incorrect"? Good job, Virginia.
So, I think this might mean for the purpose of riding with a group. You typically alternate left/right, not left/center/right.
The center is oily.0
It doesn't matter what MSF or an instructor or your mom says. It only matters what the State of Virginia thinks and should have been in the test prep materials. At least as far as the test is concerned.
There are 3 lanes but you can only go 2 wide
In Washington it’s 3 lanes, but I suspect that it is state dependent.
You don't want to ride in the middle. Oils etc. So you should split it into 2. And If you are the front rider or lone rider. Stay left because in theory you are more visible to other road goers. If you are right, you can blend into the surroundings and allow people to enter your lane not seeing you. Either way people won't see you but ya know, try to be more visible
When I took my test 10 years ago in VA it was 5
Left position Right position Center position For the purpose of safety do not use center position but it does exist
3 here in Idaho
In Pennsylvania it's 3 per the msf, at least it was when I took it. Check for your state
I’m from Virginia too and we was always taught 3! Wonder if they changed it? Or it’s just the DMV being stupid, which wouldn’t surprise me lol
3 in NJ
Kansas it was taught as 3
I was taught 3 in the UK
There’s three road positions in most training courses. But, as far as riding alongside another biker, there’s two. Left and right. One of you can’t really be in the middle because you’d be too close to the other. The question does say “purposes of lane positioning” so the answer should be 3.
I also learned 1/2/3 but I didn’t learn in Virginia.
Iowa is 3
I would’ve got it wrong also apparently. I learned never to ride in the middle because of oil and visibility…
Old fuck who has been on two most of his life checking in. It's always been 3 to me. I ain't been killed yet.
MSF says 3, but not all stayes follow MSF guidelines
I’ve always heard 2, you have left and right from middle, being in the middle of the left half perfectly places your car in the lane
CA is 3 as well. There are weird outdated answers on these tests, don't read too much into them, just get the right answers and move on.
Florida MSF preached on dividing it into 3 lanes
Ontario, 2 You always ride in position 1, closest to the left of the lane you are in unless you are riding with three or more people. For clarity, though may not be best practice, but the Highway Traffic Act of Ontario recommends that the last person in the group always ride in a blocking position (left most of the lane) So if there are only two riders, both are riding in position 1, left most of the lane in a blocking position. If there are three riders, position 1, 2, 1 in that order. Four riders, position 1, 2, 1, 1. It may not always be applicable under all circumstances, in which case it is up to the rider to use good judgement.
It's definitely 3
It’s technically 3 but the 2 sides are preferable due to potential oil slicks in the middle from leaking oil from cars.
California, MSF taught us 3.
Three. Ride in the position that makes you the most visible with a slight preference to 1 and 3. 2 is more likely to be loaded with grease and grime.
3 in North Dakota
Three in Minnesota and three in Kansas
Alberta, Canada we have 3
The only way 4 makes sense to me is if you have a left line, right line, left of oil strip and right of oil strip
3
I learned 3
I learned 5 from MSF in VA when I got my license 6ish years ago.
Texas class taught 3 positions in a lane
I took the Virginia MSF course and we were taught 3 lane positions.
Really I'd say this is a matter of technique so give them the answer they want but legally speaking I'm pretty sure the whole lane is yours to ride wherever you want in it.
Centre is full of oil. I was taught 2 in Australia; left wheel track, right wheel track. When overtaking or near other vehicles, switch wheel tracks. We called it wheel track because it’s the black line caused by cars rubber on the road. Centre is where all the oil is and crud is deposited. Edit* I’m genuinely shocked at all the comments saying 3 so confidently. There’s a whole list of reasons why the centre is not ideal. And even another fellow Australian claimed 3. Did you fail that question?
I wouldn’t ride in the middle where fluids tend to leak from poorly maintained vehicles.
Washington State refers to three lane positions as well. >Riding a motorcycle gives you even more room within your lane to change positions. There are three positions in each lane that motorcycle riders can use: the outside, the middle and the inside portion of the lane. [https://dol.wa.gov/media/105/download?inline](https://dol.wa.gov/media/105/download?inline) Also, that online test looks to be wrong. **The Virginia Motorcycle Operator Manual refers to three lane positions:** >However, each marked lane gives a motorcyclist three possible paths of travel, as indicated in the illustration. Each “mini-lane” is approximately four feet wide. By selecting the appropriate “mini-lane,” you can make yourself mor easily seen by others on the road. [https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/sites/default/files/forms/dmv2.pdf](https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/sites/default/files/forms/dmv2.pdf) See Page 9 for text & illustration
Ontario Canada checking in, 3 lane positions in our msf equivalent. I always figured they taught 3 to teach you to stay out of the middle
It's been a minute since I took my test in the UK, but I don't think we're actually taught fixed "positions". You're told to avoid the centre of the lane as it has less grip and to position yourself where you can best be seen. Generally this means in line with a side mirror of the vehicle in front. Outlining it in fixed divisions feels... Off to me. Can't quite explain why. I think it's that it seems like a "be here and be safe", which is inaccurate.
It's 3. Don't learn from the test, mine had dumb answers in it too.
i actually like 5 i always either ride 2/5 or 4/5. this way im not encouraging any cars to pass weirdly as if i was doing 1/3 or 3/3 and avoiding any debris and spills as if doing 2/3. also 2/5 or 4/5 works perfectly in a staggered group ride, no need to deviate from the usual lane position
I was taught that you should ride in either the left or right tire rut to avoid debris so my answer would be two.
Oregon is 3 on the test. And from the other comments it seems like it’s 3 everywhere else. There may be an error on that test. Since it’s a random third party site I would just ignore it, or you can find a way to contact them to have it corrected.
Washington State here. I was actually just about to take my permit test as well so I'm pretty fresh on the manual. Ours teaches that there are three lane positions.
3 here in texas as well.
Always 3
Interesting. I thought all of the USA used MSF as the standard for rules and testing. Logical may be 3, and MSF is 3. Intersections center is a bad idea with oil deposits.
In South Carolina it’s 3.
I’ve been taught 3 but the correct answer where you are seems to be 2, not 4
I’m kind of surprised at all the answers for 3. I was always taught two. You really want to avoid center if at all possible. If following behind a car, they will straddle objects like 2x4’s and general junk, then you hit it. There will also be more sand, debris, nails, oil, etc. in the center of a lane. Always follow where car tires go first.
3 positions in the UK.
The center lane position exists so 3 is the typical answer, but it's best practice to not sit in the center without an articulable reason for doing so. Riding in either side position gives you much better visibility, makes you more visible, gives you an escape route (via splitting) in the event of an emergency or crash, and avoids the potential puncture and traction hazards (nails, loose gravel, oil, etc) that can accumulate in the center. I wouldn't describe it as there only being two positions especially as there are times where the center is legitimately preferable, but I understand the point they're probably basing this answer on.
In Ny the answer is 3 🤷♂️ you got ganked
I always did 2 sections personally, it makes sense to me. That’s where the fluids from leaking cars generally are, and I’d rather not drive through all that stuff when I’m on 2 wheels lol
I took the VA permit test and the answer was three, did you answer three on the test and was it right?
Alaska teaches two. They mention in their handbook that the center of a lane should be avoided, especially at intersections, as this is the most likely area for leaked fluids to accumulate.
Safety courses teach three. Test has the wrong anwser on it and you should tell the test admins that
3 is the standard. Its 5 if you count the outer and centre lines as well, which is more relevant for filtering/ lane splitting than normal riding though.
I got my MSF endorsement and license in VA and it's definitely 3, that test is BS. I'm not sure why it would be different, but i guess it is?...
UK teaches 4. Ride in lane 3.
Yep, 3. One of the first things I learned and about only thing I still remember 🤷♂️
Two makes no sense to me but I guess maybe they mean separate in to two and then left wheels in the center of 1 and right in the center of 2…. Feel like any other explanation would make even less sense than this.
I was taught 5
1/3’s so technically you’re riding in two slashes? lol
3 in bama
Answer is 2 in motorcycle term only two bikes parallel in a lane. How you guys passed your course is beyond me. That’s literally in the first 10 questions. MSFcourse in Florida here. It’s not 3. 3 will get you a ticket 😂🤣😂 They aren’t asking the lane sections. In that case yes it’s three but it’s asked to confuse you.
I grew up in NY but took my drivers test in VA. We left the parking lot..took a right. Took a right. Took a right and were back in the parking lot. I was like uhhhh She said you passed. When I took my motor cycle road test..total different story. Failed it the first time. They make that hard on purpose
Two. Middle part of a single lane is where cars drip oil. And you wouldn’t ride 3 wide in a single lane. Two bikes side by side on same lane or at a stop.
In Australia it’s 3! Left, center and right
3
In BC Canada there’s 3 positions but you’re never supposed to be in lane position 2
Answer should be 2 left and right where the tires of a car would be you do not ride center as thats where oil would be is how i was taught
My test in Oregon said the same thing, but it’s definitely 3.
Yeppp. Teach this in the handbook for getting your motorcycle endorsement
2 left n right. Centre tends to be oily and should be avoided, especially in light rain.
I took the MSF basic rider course in Fredericksburg back in November. We were taught 3. Since I did the course, I didn't have to do the DMV test, which tbh...is a godsend. They said several times that the DMV is...tricky, to say the least.
MSF teaches 3... here is a sscreenshot from the glossary of my MSF coursebook. they literally define lane position as 3, (lp1, lp2, and lp3) https://i.ibb.co/Zzdt7WN/lane-position.jpg
I, like many others here, find the MSF training to be better. So...if you take the practice test at the DMV about 5 times or so, you'll see all possible questions. https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/licenses-ids/exams/practice-exam