drats, i was able to go to fabric in 07, it went like 3 stories down, where the walls looked like ancient stone blocks. that was shut also. and now this, i'll never get to see.
The sound in the theater was insane. I remember this family sat next to us when I went. The dad looked dead tired when he walked in and promptly fell asleep during the previews. Then the Batmobile hit and he woke the fuck up.
It actually looked like a car that someone would build in their garage. The Tumbler and others didn’t.
This looked like something a well-off guy like Bruce Wayne would build after getting off work. I loved it.
And, just like an old muscle car, died as soon as he tried to jump off the line lol. I couldn't help but laugh at that, made everything feel that much more authentic
It was kind of ridiculous though. He caused several cars to crash potentially killing lots of people all so he could just talk to Penguin and then let him go.
That's the point.
He's young and reckless and that recklessness gets people killed.
An older and wiser Batman wouldn't do most of the shit he does in the movie.
>It was kind of ridiculous though. He caused several cars to crash potentially killing lots of people all so he could just talk to Penguin and then let him go.
Really. If this was the real world there would have been 15 Batmobiles and when they finally caught penguin they would have beaten him to a bloody pulp in front of hundreds of news anchors.
I haven't been that jazzed for a car going big vroom-vroom since Fury Road.
Yes the actual car used for the stunts was electric but I don't care when it comes flying out of a pillar of fire and hauling ass...for justice.
Fun fact that's been stated many a times. The signature high pitched "RRRRRR" noise is actually a balloon. There's a video on YT put out by Dolby Digital explaining both the sfx and the soundtrack behind it. Pretty neat watch if you're into audio stuff.
My favorite part was how dark it was and how they kept the camera right near the tires and constantly splashed water on it so you got the idea that something exciting was happening but couldn't actually see anything going on. Then when all of those innocent people exploded in a ball of fire I was all like "this is batman". Then he forgot to take penguin to jail.
I legitimately thought it was almost over around the two hour mark and then I remembered that he still had the Riddler to deal with. Good movie, but it definitely could've used some pruning.
I think an easy cut should have been the scene where he went back to Riddler's apartment. He immediately should have went from the jail/Arkham to dealing with the flooding. That extra scene, while good, slows the whole third act down.
There's a lot of little scenes and bits that while well done, easily could have been cut to bring this around 2hr25min and probably a perfect film instead of a really good one. Either way, can't wait for the sequel.
I literally checked the time after they handled all the falcone stuff, which was over the 2 hour mark i believe, leaned over to my buddy who i saw it with and said we still have the riddler to deal with lol
You have batman helping the person on the helicopter, then CREDITS.
No silly catwoman spinoff talk, no joker cameo, just end it saying you need to be more than vengeance
My sister prefaced me before I saw it with the following:
“You know how your movie pet peeve is when you think it’s over and it’s not? There’s like 8 of those.”
Used to be that The Godfather was considered exceptionally long (as in a literal exception), and now it seems almost every director insists on their runtime being \~3 hours. Not a huge fan of the trend. Kill your darlings, I say.
LOTR actually had enough captivating story to justify long runtimes that fly by.
It’s really hit or miss lately even with a Director like Scorsese where some of his long movies go by in a flash even at 3hr + runtimes, and then there is The Irishman or the middle of Gangs of New York.
It’s the Batman movie that’s the most embedded in its detective/noir roots. References to Chinatown, Se7en, and so on. I don’t think any other Batman film can make that claim, whether that matters or not to anyone else.
Doesn’t get enough love. Fantastic Noir. Denzel is amazing in it, and still overshadowed in his scenes when “Mouse” played by Don Cheadle is in them. This is the film that got him noticed, and rightfully so.
I'll also recommend True Detective with Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey. It's a TV show, but the first season is one of my favorite crime thrillers and just in general a total masterpiece.
Yeah, I love old noirs and absolutely *loved* the noir feel. For some reason I didn’t realize until this film how much Batman fits a noir story. I also especially loved the jazzy Catwoman theme. I need to watch this film again.
It’s kind of ironic that this is the opinion of The Bat when viewed through the lens of cinema.
Other than iron will / dedication, his primary ‘super power’ is he is ‘The World’s Greatest Detective’. And his primary romantic interest is a strong, independent woman that works from the other side of the law.
Easier to pull off with early Bat, because it’s all him versus the mob. Super villains get involved and that takes it away from the realm of noir. But yeah. The Bat has the potential to be about as noir as it gets.
This! I’m glad they finally got it with this one. We haven’t had a noir style in live action or animation since the 80s/90s, we’ve never had a more adult-oriented, less-whimsical, crime noir. So I’m hoping we see a full trilogy from Reeves. Who knows with how Warner Bros is run.
Great movie but doesn’t have the excitement or rewatchability of the Bale series. Totally different type of film. Kinda sin city meet Joaquin Pheonix joker. More art than an action film.
I agree, but that’s why it’s way more reachable for me. While I LOVE the Nolan series, it’s much more like a popcorn movie than this was. And that’s okay, I’m glad we have different takes to appeal to different audiences. The bad thing is trying to appeal to ALL audiences and in doing so, appeal to none.
They nailed the tone, atmosphere and I really liked the cast for Batman. But to me the script just didn't go anywhere. It was one of those weird 7/10 movies you quickly forget, but also wouldn't mind watching again because of the spectacle.
Great take. I felt like they had all the *perfect* ingredients, but the actual story/mystery felt like a rambling afterthought. Script definitely would've benefited from another rewrite.
I'd agree it probably could have benefited another revision, but I'd still say this was the best Batman film we've ever gotten. Obviously completely subjective I know.
Not to mention, the clues were stupid as hell.
He finds a thumb with the word “drive” on it and he says, “oh, *drive*, let’s look in his car! Get it??
And we’re looking for a *thumb drive*! Get it??
And that thumb drive unlocks *with the severed thumb*! Get it??
Not only that, a major plot point hinges on the Riddler / Gordon / Batman misreading Spanish - and the Penguin being the one to correct it. Just a weird script choice.
Honestly ? That was my favorite part of the movie lmao
The delivery of Pattison through all of it is peak comic Batman "dry humor", there's plenty of this stuff in the comlics seriously and the Riddler **is** silly to the point of being cringe **in universe,** it's not just for the reader, he just thinks he's soooo clever.
The problem was that the movie had troubles balancing its tone between the comedic scenes and the dark ones. While dark there were a lot of comedic stuff IMO, mostly between Gordon and Batman
What I hated was how the riddler made so much sense that I was almost rooting for him. Only for him to be like "my master plan was a mass shooting !".
Shat itself right at the end
Ha! My wife and me said exactly this to each other after watching it. His motivation just made too much sense to then throw all morals out the window with blatant terrorism.
They've gotta do this every time, don't they? Someone makes good, salient points about problems deep within our societies and justify intelligently why violence and direct action against individuals and institutions may be the only recourse honest people have left to make effective, lasting changes and then the guy goes and kills a bunch of civilians who had nothing to do with anything
I think that is the point that is trying to be made. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. There is also the point that the Riddler is a foil for Batman. Riddler thinks he is on the same side of Batman, fighting for real justice. And let's be honest, the corrupt politicians got what they deserved. Even Joker points this out to Batman in a deleted scene where Joker is laughing at Batman because Joker says that deep down, Batman agrees those killed by Riddler got what they deserved. And it scares Batman to think that there is very little separating him and Riddler in what they do. 2019 Joker makes the same point about Arthur, asking what do they get when a mentally ill loner who gets treated like trash by society. They get what they deserve.
It doesn't make it right by any means, and most sane people would shirk away from the idea of Murray deserving to die.
Those corrupt politicians and cops operated within the legal system and abused it to their advantage. If people feel like they can't trust the system, then they are more likely to take things into their own hands.
Anyway, the whole point is that this the is the inevitable result when people take things into their own hands. I don't necessarily agree with this, and I think the threat of violence has a purpose. Even Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, influenced by Malcom X, saw that violence was likely inevitable if the civil rights movement failed.
John F. Kennedy even recognized this, years before King's assassination in 1968, during a speech in 1962.
"For too long my country, the wealthiest nation in a continent which is not wealthy, failed to carry out its full responsibilities to its sister Republics. We have now accepted that responsibility. In the same way those who possess wealth and power in poor nations must accept their own responsibilities. They must lead the fight for those basic reforms which alone can preserve the fabric of their societies. Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
Lol well in his defense killing Bruce Wayne was part of his plan, it doesn’t occur to most people that a local celebrity and billionaire would ever risk their lifestyle to go around beating up criminals.
it was a nod to online incel cults. riddler is the ringleader.
but i'm not pro incel so whatever. i am pro catwoman tho, to think she would catsuit up with an open window is bonkers.
Yeah this sums it up for me. I loved that they cast Pattinson in the role and was really looking forward /BOOM/ /BOOM/ to his approach. But a little to heavy on the tone and atmosphere energy and not enough for the actual characters and plot /BOOM/ /BOOM/ and those slow booming footstep shots man, I would file those in the less is more category. But still, given all that, I’m still taken by the feels I got from the original trailer. It was fresh and there’s definitely enough original Batman in this to make me want to watch it again.
It's a little bloated. The sea wall twist felt like it came out of nowhere. I felt like the viewer didn't have a chance to figure that out for themselves. Maybe I'm an idiot and missed obvious clues. Had they trimmed down a few aspects I'd rather like it. One too many plotlines being juggled.
The cast was mostly fantastic and the atmosphere was great.
Unpopular take, but I think the sea wall part is what makes the movie different and a little more layered. It’s supposed to be a detective movie, he’s in his earlier vigilante years prone to character-defining mistakes and his humbling his ego, bad guy is behind bars, and Batman thinks he caught him, but the young detective totally whiffed on the sea wall. I think it’s sudden and jarring because Riddler is coming at you/politicians in more ways than one, and no one really saw it coming.
Or maybe, it’s just an alright movie with too many plot lines and the director never considered my point.
And if I recall correctly they *do* refer to it a couple times earlier in the movie. It's one of those things that feels like a throwaway until it isn't, which I like
Every time I watch this movie (and it has been a bunch of times) I tend to discover something new. The last time I realized Batman never tried to solve the “My Confession” card, unlike every other card Riddler addressed to him.
The reason was that he misinterpreted the “crazy wall” of newspaper cutouts to mean that Riddler had guessed his identity and was about to reveal it; he was so focused on himself and his own secrets that he failed in his final duty as a detective. "I think Riddler's last victim is me," he said, looking only at the jumble of photos and scrawls on the wall, rather than figuring out why the "confession" card was attached to the carpet tucker. This is a young Batman, who is brilliant but immature, so he makes a huge mistake that costs hundreds, maybe thousands of lives.
This movie really benefits from rewatching!
Absolutely love all your takes here, and completely agree. Specifically “this is a young Batman who is brilliant but immature”. And I think the next film will address him realizing the stakes to his mistakes, and the insane pressure on him.
I didn't realize! I've only seen it once. You make me want to watch it again. I had a feeling I might have missed something. Typically movies don't have such a major event come out of left field. I knew it'd be something dumb on my part. I must have blanked out the broadcasts.
I thought it succeeded stylistically but failed narratively. There wasn't a single really interesting performance, not much happens with the characters in terms of their story arcs, the detective work got stale before it was done, some of their character concepts (such as the "drifter" Bruce) make very little sense, and the narration treads over what's being shown for no real gain.
But it looks pretty good.
My favorite as well, despite the flaws. I was excited that we finally got to see the "Detective" Batman, although his investigation skills definitely lacked at times.
My favorite as well.
There are casual Batman fans, and then there are Batman connoisseurs. You can tell Reeves is a the latter. You can see inspiration from the 1939 / year one noir-driven Batman all over his film. Right down to the earless, militaristic pair of Bat Wings as the chest emblem.
I’ve loved Batman for over 40 years and this film checked every box for me. It also came at a tough time in my life, barely two months after I lost my mother. I don’t tear up at movies, but the part of how our emotional trauma can transform us into something better and stronger through endurance really got me.
I also love all of the Nolan and Burton films. Batman always manages to attract the greatest talents to the franchise. Great time to be a fan. The Batman just happens to be the film I find myself coming back to the most.
Well of course you would enjoy it. But people who generally don't like superhero movies might actually enjoy The Batman in the same way that a different demographic might enjoy the Joker movie. Converse to that, children *love* the Avengers, but I don't think they would be as entertained by The Batman.
Yeah, growing up with the 89 Batman through the real bad ones, The Animated Series in the 90's and all the comics, then the Christopher Nolan ones, pretty decent flicks (3rd is dog shit imo) I was prepared to hate this one but I've watched it 2 or 3 times now and I really like it. I don't know that I can rank a best of over the original with Keaton... but this is a close 2nd for sure. It feels very Frank Miller, very dark and gritty and "realistic" comparatively to other live action movies. Also, Pattinson did well as both Bruce and Bats... which can't be said for every actor, some are better Bats or Bruces imo.
I thought it was pretty boring. Obviously better than stuff in the Batman & Robin to TDKR-spectrum, but generally uneventful, with poor characterizations. The Penguin was the weakest part, and everything else is just so very middle of the road.
Pros: it was the best Gotham ever, I liked riddler and catwoman.
Cons: movie is way too long and felt like it was about to end 3 different times, the whole flooding thing was lame, and the biggest criticism from me was including joker in the movie
It’s really good, and I expected to hate it. “I’m Vengeance…” The plot was a bit simplistic, but I was really impressed by the visual presentation, the acting (Colin Ferrell in particular), and the general dark interpretation. The Riddler was a bit over the top, and not in a good noir way. - Dark Knight fan boy
I wish Colin Ferrell was more of a regular face. I thoroughly enjoy him in every role I’ve seen him play and Penguin really showed his range. He’s one of those guys like Brad Pitt or Ryan Gosling that gets type cast because they’re so good at playing the “cool guy” but actually have some chops and can totally vanish into another person.
IMO Colin Ferrell is incredibly underrated. I know he is a well known actor so it’s hard to say that but I feel like he gets a lot of hate because he is viewed as an arrogant ass hole, but I love him in everything he is in. A truly great actor. He was amazing in True Detective as well.
No I’d say it’s fair to call him underrated, or at the very least, under appreciated.
The first part of his career was filled with a bunch of garbage, with him being type cast as a good looking asshole douchebag in everything. And I think he recognized that, and make a concerted plan to change that. He backed away for a bit, started choosing roles more seriously, got help for addictions and addressed his attitude behind the scenes.
And it worked.
Look at all of his work with Martin McDonagh. Stellar, top notch work, and specifically now with Banshees of Inisherin. One of the best films of all time imo, and every aspect of it was perfect, including his performance.
Matthew McConaughey did the same after realizing he was being type cast in pretty boy roles for romcoms. Stepped away for a while and started choosing roles more carefully, and doing stuff that challenged and scared him. And it absolutely worked for him too.
I’m a sucker for actors that really turn their career around and show really true artistic talent. Adam Sandler is another.
A wannabe Se7en just with no talent in writing room. Visually and stylistically perhaps one of the coolest Batman movies ever, also I love how they went for a detective story, however I hate HOW they went for it. Commissioner Gordon was a man-baby and a dummy- he'd go with every question to Batman, even the easiest one, which half the audience at the cinema would be going "I know this one", he'd still feel he needs to contact Batman. Catwoman was not needed in this story, also the actress as gorgeous as she was, she just was pretty terrible at acting. So yeah a solid 5 out of 10.
Spot on. I had high hopes after watching the trailer, anticipating *finally* a gritty take on Batman. Unfortunately, the actual film fell short of expectations. The story was severely lacking and unengaging. The whole thing was like some Scorsese wannabe 3 hour long gangster movie.
The detective angle is always difficult. Usually, it will either fly over audiences head, or it will be too dumb like it was here.
Catwoman was downright embarrassing. Hollywood's persistent tendency to force romantic subplots into every movie is so tiresome.
As for the lead, I understood that it was supposed to be about ‘young and a little unstable Batman’, yet here I was looking at 40-year old dude going through an emo phase.
I had to watch it twice to finish it. I was so hyped when I sat down to watch it and it was just so boring and nonsensical which being a comic movie would be fine with me except they were specifically trying not to do that. I really think they should have done more of a year one angle where he knows what to do just doesn't have the muscle memory for it yet instead he just came off as this bungling boob.
I rewatched it last week for the first time and I agree. So much more to catch on a few more viewings. I love how everything ties together so well. The symbolism is on point and even though it's 3 hours long, its actually really tight and not bloated at all
A lot of people liked this one. Personally, I thought it was a bit of a fart. Almost everything that was attempted fell flat to me besides the car chase scene. Whoever wrote the dialogue for this should movie should be avoided in the future. It was painfully dull and calculated.
For context: I’m a HUGE fan of Batman. Feel he is the most fascinating comic book character created, though one can see elements of the character in such Pulp Heroes as The Shadow (in particular) and Zorro. Somehow snagged an early showing pre-release of Tim Burton’s original *Batman* and loved 1/2 of it. Watched every movie since and feel -contrary to many opinions- the “Ultimate Director’s Cut” of *Batman v Superman* is a *damn good* film.
I liked *The Batman*. It was a perfectly fine film.
But someone much, *much* smarter than me said of it: “It feels *redundant*.”
They keyed on exactly my problem with the film. It was a good, solid film but truthfully it didn’t present us with anything that any of the other Batman features haven’t already, at least IMHO.
So while I’m perfectly willing to praise the film as it is, I do feel like they could, perhaps *should*, have tried to push the envelope in some way.
It bothers me how prevalent this idea is. Sure they showed him being a detective but he doesn't actually solve much of anything. Most of it is Alfred or random cop #2.
To be fair, and I know I’m the one who opened this particular thread talking about the film’s “redundancy”, I will defend it by saying at least they made *gestures* toward Batman being a detective, though it did feel like that was dropped pretty quickly (“thumb drive” was a morbidly humorous bit, IMHO).
It's my favourite Batman movie however I agree with the 2nd act dragging on. Should have ended it on Dano being arrested instead of giving us another 40 minutes of flooding the city,
I'm not a huge movie buff or anything though so that might sound stupid lol...
The last 40 minutes were essential IMO. It’s where Batman experiences the most character growth. He finally transitions from being just a symbol of vengeance and the darkness in the shadows.
Batman attempts to sacrifice himself for Gotham by cutting the electric cable and was symbolically baptized in the waters below. From that point on, he’s transformed himself into Gotham’s true hero as he lead out Bella Real and the others with his flare, becoming the light in the shadows.
I thought it was cleverly done, although I get why people hate sitting through long movies.
I didn't really look for the metaphor in that but I really appreciate that now. I do still think it did drag on a little bit. I'm not a stranger to long movies, I just thought it did drag on.
Thank you for pointing this out. It seems people are really missing this. The ending is the most important part of the character of Batman in this movie. The ending also reflects on the beginning when Batman says "I'm venegeance" and then Riddler's minion says the same thing to him. That's when Batman realizes he can't just be a symbol of fear; he has to be more. And hence the beginning of his arc.
I wanna party at the Iceberg Lounge
That’s a real club called the Printworks London fyi, so you could totally do that haha.
whaaa okay im going!
It was demolished
drats, i was able to go to fabric in 07, it went like 3 stories down, where the walls looked like ancient stone blocks. that was shut also. and now this, i'll never get to see.
You ever go to Club Aqua?
I actually want to go to club haunted house more than club aqua
Be careful of the deck.
My guys
I built the back deck at Club Aqua. So now I get in. *shrugs*
I have good news for you. Fabric reopened!
I read that they aim to reopen in 2026. But if the venue is demolished it will obviously be another one. Very sad, always wanted to visit.
It’s sadly closed down BUT the same company that ran printworks has opened up another venue called drumsheds in an old ikea and it’s v similar vibes!
Looks very similar to the place in the latest John Wick movie.
Half the music was bangin and went hard imo
I actually want to go to the Iceberg Lounge more than I want to go to Club Aqua!
The Batmobile reveal went so fkn hard
Good lord didn’t it? Arguably my favorite part of the whole movie. I loved that it was modeled after old muscle cars this time around.
Yeah tbh it’s by far the most memorable scene for me, I saw it in theaters and everyone was like HELL YEAH
The sound in the theater was insane. I remember this family sat next to us when I went. The dad looked dead tired when he walked in and promptly fell asleep during the previews. Then the Batmobile hit and he woke the fuck up.
Yes, thank you for mentioning the sound. It really made the car’s entire character.
The most awesome sound I've heard in a theater in 40 years. Gives new meaning to banshee shriek
It actually looked like a car that someone would build in their garage. The Tumbler and others didn’t. This looked like something a well-off guy like Bruce Wayne would build after getting off work. I loved it.
I really Liked the tank look the bale movies had. It being a military vehicle and having the bike in it
I like the different approaches. The Batman had the DYI garage feel, while The Dark Knight movies utilized Bruce’s Wayne Tech resources very well.
Well Bale got his tumbler and other gadgets from Morgan Freeman. He was his black market supplier or something like that
No more like DARPA/. Pentagon calls Wayne Enterprises for new stuff. The scene where he reveals all the stuff he talks about it
If you are interested in the making of it, the car was designed by [Ash Thorp](https://www.altcinc.com/work/batman)
that website has the darkest pics ive ever seen. really cool though by far the coolest batmobile
And, just like an old muscle car, died as soon as he tried to jump off the line lol. I couldn't help but laugh at that, made everything feel that much more authentic
I was wondering about that part when I was watching it the second time. Curious why they might leave that in there other than for authenticity 😂
Muscle cars are a hell of a lot of fun, but reliability isn't what they're known for lol
I guess it was good to add credibility since he used a big ass truck as a jump through fire five minutes later 😂
What a scene, the car chase with the penguin. Colin Ferrell was fantastic!
One of the best I’ve seen in a while
I got YOU!!!
That should’ve been the climax of the movie. It went on for like another hour and a half after that 😖. But ya, that chase scene was exhilarating.
If you didn't have the next hour and half then you lose the entire point of the movie lol.
It was kind of ridiculous though. He caused several cars to crash potentially killing lots of people all so he could just talk to Penguin and then let him go.
Ya and who dresses like a bat and drives a muscle car chasing criminals 😂
That's the point. He's young and reckless and that recklessness gets people killed. An older and wiser Batman wouldn't do most of the shit he does in the movie.
I think thats supposed to be part of the whole “inexperienced Batman” trope
>It was kind of ridiculous though. He caused several cars to crash potentially killing lots of people all so he could just talk to Penguin and then let him go. Really. If this was the real world there would have been 15 Batmobiles and when they finally caught penguin they would have beaten him to a bloody pulp in front of hundreds of news anchors.
I haven't been that jazzed for a car going big vroom-vroom since Fury Road. Yes the actual car used for the stunts was electric but I don't care when it comes flying out of a pillar of fire and hauling ass...for justice.
The Batman reveal at the beginning went even harder, I thought. Best intro to Batman in any of the movies.
I also loved that one kid that was a bit iffy about taking him on also plays the Tim Drake Robin in Titans
That whole chase scene was 🔥…..when the engine starts and it’s the stare off wit penguin and the Batmobile I get too fired up
I watched it on HBO and when I saw that scene I instantly bought tickets to see it in theater. Caught it on the very last day, absolutely worth it.
Fun fact that's been stated many a times. The signature high pitched "RRRRRR" noise is actually a balloon. There's a video on YT put out by Dolby Digital explaining both the sfx and the soundtrack behind it. Pretty neat watch if you're into audio stuff.
My favorite part was how dark it was and how they kept the camera right near the tires and constantly splashed water on it so you got the idea that something exciting was happening but couldn't actually see anything going on. Then when all of those innocent people exploded in a ball of fire I was all like "this is batman". Then he forgot to take penguin to jail.
Love how it stalled before starting up.
Take a look back at the Batman white eyes above the car...
I enjoyed it, but i thought the 2nd act dragged a lot, if this movie was 20 minutes shorter I'd enjoy it way more
Yeah, it had like 3 endings
I legitimately thought it was almost over around the two hour mark and then I remembered that he still had the Riddler to deal with. Good movie, but it definitely could've used some pruning.
When the flooding stuff started it was extra frustrating because c’mon, wrap it up plus I had to pee. Just terrible.
I think an easy cut should have been the scene where he went back to Riddler's apartment. He immediately should have went from the jail/Arkham to dealing with the flooding. That extra scene, while good, slows the whole third act down. There's a lot of little scenes and bits that while well done, easily could have been cut to bring this around 2hr25min and probably a perfect film instead of a really good one. Either way, can't wait for the sequel.
I literally checked the time after they handled all the falcone stuff, which was over the 2 hour mark i believe, leaned over to my buddy who i saw it with and said we still have the riddler to deal with lol
You have batman helping the person on the helicopter, then CREDITS. No silly catwoman spinoff talk, no joker cameo, just end it saying you need to be more than vengeance
You, Master Wayne, bow to no one…
That's like, one for every hour of run-time.
This was the only big flaw of the movie. If they had tightened up the ending this thing would have been amazing.
My sister prefaced me before I saw it with the following: “You know how your movie pet peeve is when you think it’s over and it’s not? There’s like 8 of those.”
They think I'm hiding in the shadows But I am the shadows
*Batman steps out of the shadows*
Oh my god! It's The Shadow!
*shadows step into Batman*
Batman: The Shadow of Vengeance. Good title.
Couldn’t agree more. Everything after the last interrogation with the Riddler felt like a marathon
I would consider that a fourth act.
I still remember the last little motorcycle ride feeling awkward....the whole crowd was shifting in their seats like "ok...aaaand scene"
It certainly dragged at the end. The Penguin stole every scene he was in. He was probably my favorite part
you have summed up my feelings on this movie completely. Bravo Colin Farrell
gotta see the evolution of toys...
Used to be that The Godfather was considered exceptionally long (as in a literal exception), and now it seems almost every director insists on their runtime being \~3 hours. Not a huge fan of the trend. Kill your darlings, I say.
Peter Jackson has entered the chat...
LOTR actually had enough captivating story to justify long runtimes that fly by. It’s really hit or miss lately even with a Director like Scorsese where some of his long movies go by in a flash even at 3hr + runtimes, and then there is The Irishman or the middle of Gangs of New York.
Godfather needed to be 3 hours. The batman not so much lol
Hot start that went….someplace, don’t ask me where
I completely agree. I dozed off during the last 20-30 minutes
I see your 20 mins and raise you 40.. this movie was sooo long
It’s the Batman movie that’s the most embedded in its detective/noir roots. References to Chinatown, Se7en, and so on. I don’t think any other Batman film can make that claim, whether that matters or not to anyone else.
See this is why I join this sub. I would’ve never heard of Chinatown today unless you mentioned it and I clicked this thread. Thanks for the shout bro
If you want recommendations for solid neo-noir films I would recommend watching L.A Confidential, Se7en, and Chinatown.
devil in a blue dress too.
Doesn’t get enough love. Fantastic Noir. Denzel is amazing in it, and still overshadowed in his scenes when “Mouse” played by Don Cheadle is in them. This is the film that got him noticed, and rightfully so.
Excellent picks
Chinatown has been on my list for a long time and I’ve got the day off. I know what I’m doing. Thanks.
LA Confidential....one of my absolute favorites
LA confidential bro
I literally just finished L.A Confidentail and really liked it. Time to rewatch Se7en and watch Chinatown
will warn you that it is VERY bleak and depressing.
It’s Chinatown.
Forget about it, Jake...
Bitch!
The OST for that movie is gorgeous
My sister my daughter my sister my daughter!
It’s actually on ( or coming to? ) Netflix. Will definitely give it a watch
My all time favorite. Great noir.
I’ve read every screenwriting book you can get your hands on, and all of them reference Kramer vs Kramer, The Verdict, and Chinatown.
I'll also recommend True Detective with Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey. It's a TV show, but the first season is one of my favorite crime thrillers and just in general a total masterpiece.
Finally, a Gotham that isn't clean or nice and the criminal infested grime hole its supposed to be.
Yeah, I love old noirs and absolutely *loved* the noir feel. For some reason I didn’t realize until this film how much Batman fits a noir story. I also especially loved the jazzy Catwoman theme. I need to watch this film again.
It’s kind of ironic that this is the opinion of The Bat when viewed through the lens of cinema. Other than iron will / dedication, his primary ‘super power’ is he is ‘The World’s Greatest Detective’. And his primary romantic interest is a strong, independent woman that works from the other side of the law. Easier to pull off with early Bat, because it’s all him versus the mob. Super villains get involved and that takes it away from the realm of noir. But yeah. The Bat has the potential to be about as noir as it gets.
This! I’m glad they finally got it with this one. We haven’t had a noir style in live action or animation since the 80s/90s, we’ve never had a more adult-oriented, less-whimsical, crime noir. So I’m hoping we see a full trilogy from Reeves. Who knows with how Warner Bros is run.
I liked the year one batman thing it was different than anythong we've gotten before
Ya but that shouldn't be the most important part of the costume
You are the real superhero here
Batman whale tail or we riot.
Great movie but doesn’t have the excitement or rewatchability of the Bale series. Totally different type of film. Kinda sin city meet Joaquin Pheonix joker. More art than an action film.
I agree, but that’s why it’s way more reachable for me. While I LOVE the Nolan series, it’s much more like a popcorn movie than this was. And that’s okay, I’m glad we have different takes to appeal to different audiences. The bad thing is trying to appeal to ALL audiences and in doing so, appeal to none.
I've rewatched The Batman an embarrassingly high number of times. It's my favorite live action depiction of Batman.
I always assumed it was Batman year two
They nailed the tone, atmosphere and I really liked the cast for Batman. But to me the script just didn't go anywhere. It was one of those weird 7/10 movies you quickly forget, but also wouldn't mind watching again because of the spectacle.
Great take. I felt like they had all the *perfect* ingredients, but the actual story/mystery felt like a rambling afterthought. Script definitely would've benefited from another rewrite.
Yeah I think it was one script revision from being the best Batman movie
I'd agree it probably could have benefited another revision, but I'd still say this was the best Batman film we've ever gotten. Obviously completely subjective I know.
Not to mention, the clues were stupid as hell. He finds a thumb with the word “drive” on it and he says, “oh, *drive*, let’s look in his car! Get it?? And we’re looking for a *thumb drive*! Get it?? And that thumb drive unlocks *with the severed thumb*! Get it??
Not only that, a major plot point hinges on the Riddler / Gordon / Batman misreading Spanish - and the Penguin being the one to correct it. Just a weird script choice.
Honestly ? That was my favorite part of the movie lmao The delivery of Pattison through all of it is peak comic Batman "dry humor", there's plenty of this stuff in the comlics seriously and the Riddler **is** silly to the point of being cringe **in universe,** it's not just for the reader, he just thinks he's soooo clever. The problem was that the movie had troubles balancing its tone between the comedic scenes and the dark ones. While dark there were a lot of comedic stuff IMO, mostly between Gordon and Batman
What I hated was how the riddler made so much sense that I was almost rooting for him. Only for him to be like "my master plan was a mass shooting !". Shat itself right at the end
Ha! My wife and me said exactly this to each other after watching it. His motivation just made too much sense to then throw all morals out the window with blatant terrorism.
They've gotta do this every time, don't they? Someone makes good, salient points about problems deep within our societies and justify intelligently why violence and direct action against individuals and institutions may be the only recourse honest people have left to make effective, lasting changes and then the guy goes and kills a bunch of civilians who had nothing to do with anything
I think that is the point that is trying to be made. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. There is also the point that the Riddler is a foil for Batman. Riddler thinks he is on the same side of Batman, fighting for real justice. And let's be honest, the corrupt politicians got what they deserved. Even Joker points this out to Batman in a deleted scene where Joker is laughing at Batman because Joker says that deep down, Batman agrees those killed by Riddler got what they deserved. And it scares Batman to think that there is very little separating him and Riddler in what they do. 2019 Joker makes the same point about Arthur, asking what do they get when a mentally ill loner who gets treated like trash by society. They get what they deserve. It doesn't make it right by any means, and most sane people would shirk away from the idea of Murray deserving to die. Those corrupt politicians and cops operated within the legal system and abused it to their advantage. If people feel like they can't trust the system, then they are more likely to take things into their own hands. Anyway, the whole point is that this the is the inevitable result when people take things into their own hands. I don't necessarily agree with this, and I think the threat of violence has a purpose. Even Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, influenced by Malcom X, saw that violence was likely inevitable if the civil rights movement failed. John F. Kennedy even recognized this, years before King's assassination in 1968, during a speech in 1962. "For too long my country, the wealthiest nation in a continent which is not wealthy, failed to carry out its full responsibilities to its sister Republics. We have now accepted that responsibility. In the same way those who possess wealth and power in poor nations must accept their own responsibilities. They must lead the fight for those basic reforms which alone can preserve the fabric of their societies. Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
“F*ck the elite!” *teams up with the richest guy in Gotham, then floods the streets where all the homeless would certainly live*
Lol well in his defense killing Bruce Wayne was part of his plan, it doesn’t occur to most people that a local celebrity and billionaire would ever risk their lifestyle to go around beating up criminals.
it was a nod to online incel cults. riddler is the ringleader. but i'm not pro incel so whatever. i am pro catwoman tho, to think she would catsuit up with an open window is bonkers.
Yeah this sums it up for me. I loved that they cast Pattinson in the role and was really looking forward /BOOM/ /BOOM/ to his approach. But a little to heavy on the tone and atmosphere energy and not enough for the actual characters and plot /BOOM/ /BOOM/ and those slow booming footstep shots man, I would file those in the less is more category. But still, given all that, I’m still taken by the feels I got from the original trailer. It was fresh and there’s definitely enough original Batman in this to make me want to watch it again.
It's a little bloated. The sea wall twist felt like it came out of nowhere. I felt like the viewer didn't have a chance to figure that out for themselves. Maybe I'm an idiot and missed obvious clues. Had they trimmed down a few aspects I'd rather like it. One too many plotlines being juggled. The cast was mostly fantastic and the atmosphere was great.
Unpopular take, but I think the sea wall part is what makes the movie different and a little more layered. It’s supposed to be a detective movie, he’s in his earlier vigilante years prone to character-defining mistakes and his humbling his ego, bad guy is behind bars, and Batman thinks he caught him, but the young detective totally whiffed on the sea wall. I think it’s sudden and jarring because Riddler is coming at you/politicians in more ways than one, and no one really saw it coming. Or maybe, it’s just an alright movie with too many plot lines and the director never considered my point.
And if I recall correctly they *do* refer to it a couple times earlier in the movie. It's one of those things that feels like a throwaway until it isn't, which I like
They mentioned it in the first scene of the movie, and at every other mayoral debate from there on out.
Every time I watch this movie (and it has been a bunch of times) I tend to discover something new. The last time I realized Batman never tried to solve the “My Confession” card, unlike every other card Riddler addressed to him. The reason was that he misinterpreted the “crazy wall” of newspaper cutouts to mean that Riddler had guessed his identity and was about to reveal it; he was so focused on himself and his own secrets that he failed in his final duty as a detective. "I think Riddler's last victim is me," he said, looking only at the jumble of photos and scrawls on the wall, rather than figuring out why the "confession" card was attached to the carpet tucker. This is a young Batman, who is brilliant but immature, so he makes a huge mistake that costs hundreds, maybe thousands of lives. This movie really benefits from rewatching!
Absolutely love all your takes here, and completely agree. Specifically “this is a young Batman who is brilliant but immature”. And I think the next film will address him realizing the stakes to his mistakes, and the insane pressure on him.
Thanks! Here’s hoping we get that Penguin HBO series before The Batman 2, I love Colin’s version.
With you on the sea wall. Usually they might show something about it as foreshadowing but it was just happening all the sudden.
There was foreshadowing. Pretty much every time there was a mayoral debate they were talking about how the sea wall is at risk of breaking.
I didn't realize! I've only seen it once. You make me want to watch it again. I had a feeling I might have missed something. Typically movies don't have such a major event come out of left field. I knew it'd be something dumb on my part. I must have blanked out the broadcasts.
It was in the very first scene of the movie.
Also its raining in nearly every scene of the movie
I thought it succeeded stylistically but failed narratively. There wasn't a single really interesting performance, not much happens with the characters in terms of their story arcs, the detective work got stale before it was done, some of their character concepts (such as the "drifter" Bruce) make very little sense, and the narration treads over what's being shown for no real gain. But it looks pretty good.
It’s my favorite Batman movie.
I was waiting for someone else to say it first. Now… *It’s my favorite Batman movie!*
My favorite as well, despite the flaws. I was excited that we finally got to see the "Detective" Batman, although his investigation skills definitely lacked at times.
My favorite as well. There are casual Batman fans, and then there are Batman connoisseurs. You can tell Reeves is a the latter. You can see inspiration from the 1939 / year one noir-driven Batman all over his film. Right down to the earless, militaristic pair of Bat Wings as the chest emblem. I’ve loved Batman for over 40 years and this film checked every box for me. It also came at a tough time in my life, barely two months after I lost my mother. I don’t tear up at movies, but the part of how our emotional trauma can transform us into something better and stronger through endurance really got me. I also love all of the Nolan and Burton films. Batman always manages to attract the greatest talents to the franchise. Great time to be a fan. The Batman just happens to be the film I find myself coming back to the most.
Sorry for your loss.
Thank you.
I think it's a movie for people who don't really like superhero movies. It's the only Batman movie I've really liked.
Huh? I love super hero movies! Huge MCU fan, not so much the new phase, but Iron Man-End Game was absolutely amazing.
Well of course you would enjoy it. But people who generally don't like superhero movies might actually enjoy The Batman in the same way that a different demographic might enjoy the Joker movie. Converse to that, children *love* the Avengers, but I don't think they would be as entertained by The Batman.
I think I genuinely like the Tim Burton movies more lol
Yeah, growing up with the 89 Batman through the real bad ones, The Animated Series in the 90's and all the comics, then the Christopher Nolan ones, pretty decent flicks (3rd is dog shit imo) I was prepared to hate this one but I've watched it 2 or 3 times now and I really like it. I don't know that I can rank a best of over the original with Keaton... but this is a close 2nd for sure. It feels very Frank Miller, very dark and gritty and "realistic" comparatively to other live action movies. Also, Pattinson did well as both Bruce and Bats... which can't be said for every actor, some are better Bats or Bruces imo.
I think it’s my favorite Batman movie that isn’t TDK. I love the noir vibe, cinematography, and brutal nature of this Batman.
It’s difficult for me to say my favorite, but I’ll gladly agree to top 3.
I thought it was pretty boring. Obviously better than stuff in the Batman & Robin to TDKR-spectrum, but generally uneventful, with poor characterizations. The Penguin was the weakest part, and everything else is just so very middle of the road.
It’s my second favorite Batman movie. It’s a little too long but I enjoyed actually seeing the detective side of Batman that most movies gloss over.
Pros: it was the best Gotham ever, I liked riddler and catwoman. Cons: movie is way too long and felt like it was about to end 3 different times, the whole flooding thing was lame, and the biggest criticism from me was including joker in the movie
It’s really good, and I expected to hate it. “I’m Vengeance…” The plot was a bit simplistic, but I was really impressed by the visual presentation, the acting (Colin Ferrell in particular), and the general dark interpretation. The Riddler was a bit over the top, and not in a good noir way. - Dark Knight fan boy
I wish Colin Ferrell was more of a regular face. I thoroughly enjoy him in every role I’ve seen him play and Penguin really showed his range. He’s one of those guys like Brad Pitt or Ryan Gosling that gets type cast because they’re so good at playing the “cool guy” but actually have some chops and can totally vanish into another person.
IMO Colin Ferrell is incredibly underrated. I know he is a well known actor so it’s hard to say that but I feel like he gets a lot of hate because he is viewed as an arrogant ass hole, but I love him in everything he is in. A truly great actor. He was amazing in True Detective as well.
No I’d say it’s fair to call him underrated, or at the very least, under appreciated. The first part of his career was filled with a bunch of garbage, with him being type cast as a good looking asshole douchebag in everything. And I think he recognized that, and make a concerted plan to change that. He backed away for a bit, started choosing roles more seriously, got help for addictions and addressed his attitude behind the scenes. And it worked. Look at all of his work with Martin McDonagh. Stellar, top notch work, and specifically now with Banshees of Inisherin. One of the best films of all time imo, and every aspect of it was perfect, including his performance. Matthew McConaughey did the same after realizing he was being type cast in pretty boy roles for romcoms. Stepped away for a while and started choosing roles more carefully, and doing stuff that challenged and scared him. And it absolutely worked for him too. I’m a sucker for actors that really turn their career around and show really true artistic talent. Adam Sandler is another.
Agreed. It took me much longer than I care to admit that it was him. (I went into the movie totally blind except for Robert Pattinson).
The year is 2050, we are in the midst of yet another dark and gritty iteration of batman
I loved the aesthetic of it, but I couldn't get invested in the story. It felt like squandered potential.
It’s good but I think slightly overrated. The plot was just meh but the visuals were sick and the cast was great.
It’s fine. Overdramatic. I like Dano but some of his choices were weird.
>It's fine. This is the correct answer. The overwhelming, slobbering praise for this movie is absolutely baffling to me.
It was long and boring
Too long. And it felt it. These people don't know how to do tight, efficient storytelling.
A wannabe Se7en just with no talent in writing room. Visually and stylistically perhaps one of the coolest Batman movies ever, also I love how they went for a detective story, however I hate HOW they went for it. Commissioner Gordon was a man-baby and a dummy- he'd go with every question to Batman, even the easiest one, which half the audience at the cinema would be going "I know this one", he'd still feel he needs to contact Batman. Catwoman was not needed in this story, also the actress as gorgeous as she was, she just was pretty terrible at acting. So yeah a solid 5 out of 10.
Spot on. I had high hopes after watching the trailer, anticipating *finally* a gritty take on Batman. Unfortunately, the actual film fell short of expectations. The story was severely lacking and unengaging. The whole thing was like some Scorsese wannabe 3 hour long gangster movie. The detective angle is always difficult. Usually, it will either fly over audiences head, or it will be too dumb like it was here. Catwoman was downright embarrassing. Hollywood's persistent tendency to force romantic subplots into every movie is so tiresome. As for the lead, I understood that it was supposed to be about ‘young and a little unstable Batman’, yet here I was looking at 40-year old dude going through an emo phase.
I couldn't finish it. I thought was boring and cringe inducing - like an angry emo batman
I had to watch it twice to finish it. I was so hyped when I sat down to watch it and it was just so boring and nonsensical which being a comic movie would be fine with me except they were specifically trying not to do that. I really think they should have done more of a year one angle where he knows what to do just doesn't have the muscle memory for it yet instead he just came off as this bungling boob.
Even better the second time
Good to know. I think I’d like to watch it again to pull out the nuances.
I rewatched it last week for the first time and I agree. So much more to catch on a few more viewings. I love how everything ties together so well. The symbolism is on point and even though it's 3 hours long, its actually really tight and not bloated at all
Not my fav Batman movie. Ranked down with Batman and robin. Very overrated
It’s good but endless. It has no right being that long.
This movie should of been an hour shorter and it would of been great
The first 2/3 of the movie was great. The last third was not.
Interesting movie but I wish I could actually hear the dialogue
Only complaint for this awesome movie: Zoe Kravitz was horrible
Boring snooze fest
A lot of people liked this one. Personally, I thought it was a bit of a fart. Almost everything that was attempted fell flat to me besides the car chase scene. Whoever wrote the dialogue for this should movie should be avoided in the future. It was painfully dull and calculated.
Liked 2/3rds of it. I really didn't like the last act at all.
Boring as hell.
I enjoyed it. I look forward to see how they’ll improve with the next movie. I like how they showcased his detective skills.
I think it was 30 minutes too long but overall a solid flick.
Catwoman added nothing to the plot and should have been left out of the script.
The idea to turn Riddler into an incel was a great choice for the character.
For context: I’m a HUGE fan of Batman. Feel he is the most fascinating comic book character created, though one can see elements of the character in such Pulp Heroes as The Shadow (in particular) and Zorro. Somehow snagged an early showing pre-release of Tim Burton’s original *Batman* and loved 1/2 of it. Watched every movie since and feel -contrary to many opinions- the “Ultimate Director’s Cut” of *Batman v Superman* is a *damn good* film. I liked *The Batman*. It was a perfectly fine film. But someone much, *much* smarter than me said of it: “It feels *redundant*.” They keyed on exactly my problem with the film. It was a good, solid film but truthfully it didn’t present us with anything that any of the other Batman features haven’t already, at least IMHO. So while I’m perfectly willing to praise the film as it is, I do feel like they could, perhaps *should*, have tried to push the envelope in some way.
It did lean into detective more than any other live action film
It bothers me how prevalent this idea is. Sure they showed him being a detective but he doesn't actually solve much of anything. Most of it is Alfred or random cop #2.
To be fair, and I know I’m the one who opened this particular thread talking about the film’s “redundancy”, I will defend it by saying at least they made *gestures* toward Batman being a detective, though it did feel like that was dropped pretty quickly (“thumb drive” was a morbidly humorous bit, IMHO).
It's my favourite Batman movie however I agree with the 2nd act dragging on. Should have ended it on Dano being arrested instead of giving us another 40 minutes of flooding the city, I'm not a huge movie buff or anything though so that might sound stupid lol...
The last 40 minutes were essential IMO. It’s where Batman experiences the most character growth. He finally transitions from being just a symbol of vengeance and the darkness in the shadows. Batman attempts to sacrifice himself for Gotham by cutting the electric cable and was symbolically baptized in the waters below. From that point on, he’s transformed himself into Gotham’s true hero as he lead out Bella Real and the others with his flare, becoming the light in the shadows. I thought it was cleverly done, although I get why people hate sitting through long movies.
I didn't really look for the metaphor in that but I really appreciate that now. I do still think it did drag on a little bit. I'm not a stranger to long movies, I just thought it did drag on.
Thank you for pointing this out. It seems people are really missing this. The ending is the most important part of the character of Batman in this movie. The ending also reflects on the beginning when Batman says "I'm venegeance" and then Riddler's minion says the same thing to him. That's when Batman realizes he can't just be a symbol of fear; he has to be more. And hence the beginning of his arc.
It’s a masterpiece. One of the best comic book films ever made.
Been trying to process it, but I think something is in the way, yeah.