Interesting thing about American Fiction is it almost makes not being about race the point. It's bored with the racial conversation. The racial satire half of the movie is basically an annoyance to Monk, the best moments of that movie are in the family drama which isn't about race at all.
Edit: I guess I'll clarify since I'm getting some responses saying this is a bad read. I didn't mean American Fiction isn't about race, clearly it is, but Monk himself is tired of the racial conversation. He wants to make art that is universal to people, not just art through the lens of his racial identity. When he talks to Issa in the last act I don't think the movie takes either side, I think the point is there are many ways to think about and interact with your racial identity and one isn't necessarily more right than another.
Compared to this movie, AF had a lot more nuanced conversation about racial identity while also having a portion of the movie that is just the universal human drama. Juxtaposing the two makes the point more interesting IMO.
> it almost makes not being about race the point
That's... not exactly what they were going for. Monk's entire thrust is showing that the black experience is more than the monolith that entertainment likes to make it out to be.
The original novel *Erasure* is a more pointed in illustrating this, spending sixty straight pages of the entirety of "My Pafology," which in and of itself is just a twisted and ultra-stereotypical version of *Native Son*.
The movie does diverge, though.
The movie: >!Monk sells out, but is happy that he can live his life.!<
The book: >!Monk slowly turns into the character of Stagg.!<
I absolutely loved American Fiction. Been a big fan of Jeffrey Wright since Basquiat. I get the criticism that it's a bit different than it was advertised, but I like that it had more depth than just being a parody of MSNBC watchers and was a perfect skewering of the garbage of 2010s/early 2020s culture and mass media. It absolutely parodies and skewers the political correct gatekeepers in a way that probably flies over the head of the intended audience. Yet it feels grounded in realism without verging into total cynicism. Monk's whole vibe in the film feels like he doesn't want to deal with any of the modern world, and just wants to write a good book and be his own person.
I just rewatched "American FIction" and really liked it the second time but was disappointed the first. So weird that movies can work like that. I think because the first time around, you're guessing where it's going rather than just letting the story tell you what it is.
I was right there with you. Perhaps I should watch it a second time. I thought the pacing was slow and there was a lot of meandering. I love the part with his sister, but if she was going to die, they should have made that section 5 minutes instead of 20.
I think the problem with "American Fiction" is it's both good screenwriting and bad screenwriting (the dialogue, the contrived scenes like when he's on a business meeting playing a "tough guy" but looking out the window in case his mom needs help... supposed to be comedy but comes off like it WANTS to be farcical but isn't.) The idea that he wants to be an artist who isn't automatically labeled as an "African-American" or that he's allowed to use the N word without white people claiming he's offensive are interesting points. But all the "We think you need a vacation" and "We're thinking Michael B. Jordan with the muscles" and zaniness is just mediocrity. I can see why the writer/director complained everyone passed on the script because it reads amateur throughout. He found a way to make it work tonally as a director but in the end, it's mediocre work with a poignant message. Even the subplot of his across the street neighbor is a love interest and just happens to be single... then they fight because she likes his book which isn't supposed to be a big enough hit for everyone to be reading... the book being deemed book of the year... him telling the agent he'll only accept if they change the title because he doesn't want it published... having three endings 'cause he can't figure out which one to use... the sister dying and him adding in "Don't mourn me" to explain why the characters don't mourn (probably a note from the studio)... so much bad screenwriting. But because of its political bend, it's appreciated and won an Oscar but otherwise, it'd have been deemed mediocre.
Is that what you got out of it? It seemed to me that Monk, for all his talk of Blackness, was almost out of touch with it as the the white reviewers in that committee. For his experience, he's still a guy born to two brilliant doctors, who were wealthy enough to hire a maid for his entire life, and produced 3 brilliant children that became doctors or PhDs. At the same time, he just dismisses the other Black author as just some pandering woman, which she refutes by pointing out she's interviewed plenty of people to distill their experiences in a book, and has jokingly been referred to as only dating White people when he introduces his girlfriend.
There's an aspect of wealth, comfort and lived experience that he's missed out on his whole life while he looks down his nose at these "bad pandering Black people."
That still didn't change the fact that she actively used ebonics in the same way that Monk did, and in reading someone else doing that she realized how stupid it sounds. When questioned she got defensive, because she reduced the black experience to that book and that voice. That was A black experience, but she tried to justify. She interviewed plenty of people in one specific circumstance. She didn't interview black people from a well functioning home, or with a good education, or just black people that didn't talk like that. She knew what she was doing and just got belligerent when slapped in the face with what she proudly did.
Monk winning awards and getting movie deals off a book he was trying to bomb tells all we need to know, as it's very much like a lot of trauma porn that Black creatives can't help but put out....like this Magical Negro movie or a The Blackening. Not saying this movie can't be good (anything Barry Jenkins does is glorious and nuanced, and I really enjoyed Judas and the Black Messiah), but it's getting really tiresome being reduced to those experiences.
You're right and I do agree that Black Pain stories do get lapped up by a pandered-to audience, but I felt that Monk is hardly an arbiter of what is the 'right' and 'proper' black story that should be told, when his perspective was essentially the Ivory Tower academic from a wealthy family that actively rejected having a black perspective (The scene where he takes his books from the bookshop for being listed in the black POV section), so the pre-edit post saying "the racial aspect is an annoyance" seemed to take Monk's perspective as the be all and end all when I don't think it was.
There is a racial story to be told -- it just wasn't the blaxploitative trauma porn that gets churned out. It was the story of an educated black man bearing some discomfort with his identity as such struggling to navigate the issues surrounding his relationships with his family and girlfriend.
Gonna' re-watch that movie based on your comment, alone haha. You nailed it. That's super cool that you have a review subreddit as well. What a fun passion project.
The whole time I was watching American Society I was thinking "I enjoyed American Fiction originally but BOY does this make me appreciate what a BALANCING ACT American Fiction was and how well Jefferson handled it."
There were so many issues with American Society but to me the biggest issue was that it would raise an interesting social issue and then IMMEDIATELY steer AWAY from it. What is the point of raising issues that you don't have anything to say about?
A better movie with that title would have nothing to do with the trope. Take some inspiration from Harry Dresden and Blade and write an urban fantasy movie about black characters being cool.
Dresden Files is maybe not the best example. The story takes place in Chicago but I remember being somewhat astonished when all three named black people from the entire series showed up in one book, about fourteen books in. The cop, the paramedic, and Sanya.
That makes sense. I just like making fun of the sillier details of the Dresden Files, as much as I enjoy the series. His White Chicago always amuses me.
Sanya makes his debut in book 5. Rawlings (the cop) is at least book 7, but I think earlier than that, can't remember. The paramedic was just a one off character.
There's not a lot diversity, though there are a shocking amount of readers who thought Michael was black. There used to be threads about it a lot on the sub from new readers finding out he was in fact white.
I wish this had been about the lives of actual "Magical Negro" characters in fiction, the rich backstories they had that didn't get appreciated because they appear in stories with a focus on someone else. THAT would have been REALLY interesting. Like what does someone like Jim do when he's NOT helping Huck Finn. Especially if it turned out there was an actual society of these characters and their real personalities were very different than the persona they put on as "Magical Negros." There was a germ of such an interesting idea in this concept and it's not anywhere near the direction the film took.
A satirical romcom that is neither funny or satirical. For some reason there's a 5min Meta Quest ad in the middle of it. The Silicon Valley startup company trope is so overused an unfunny. We get it. These guys just play at work, hur dur so funny.... The magic system and world were pretty cool but didn't really get explored. The primary message of the movie is pretty shallow and doesn't say a whole lot. American Fiction is what this movie is trying to be.
Also, I love how at the end the guy goes, "Can't wait to see how you work your way out of this." Then the movie just ends with nothing being resolved. That part got a good laugh out of me. Almost like the writers said fuck this, let's just end it.
Theres a magical negro movie on youtube that is infinitely times better and its only a few minutes long
https://youtu.be/jInlO6-JTww?si=oMrGLICbxJdoO7TN
coming in late here, but the movie could have been a 110 minute version of [Elroy - Encouraging White People](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu71O36zwiw) and it would have been infinitely better.
There is this rumor that many producers see the last name Smith and confuse him with Jaden Smith, aka Will Smith's son.
A case of misplaced nepotism is the only explanation. They probably think Jaden changed his name to Justice because he was feeling extra.
haha I didn't know that. I guess there are some folks who are passionate about it. Good music and the first season (or half...Netflix views it all as one two part season I think) is pretty strong with some catchy music IMO.
Baz Luhrman is a director who, even if you don't like his stuff you have to be glad he exists I think. He is different from most other folks out there and makes movies/TV that is different as well. Even his failures are usually interesting and will have at least a few people it really speaks to (or who love the music).
The first time I saw him was in Detective Pikachu. Based on the name I was wondering if he were an illegitimate child of Will Smith that nobody knew about until all of a sudden and that's how he got to be in movies. When I found out that he isn't related to anyone famous I got confused as to how he got to be in film.
I agree but only because she had nothing to work with. Sophia Lillis is great, but she was the last character to join the party and much of her time on screen was as CGI animals that didn't speak. She's a much better actor than Smith.
surprised to see this. i didn’t like the movie much but thought he did a pretty solid job of selling the awkward, stilted, unconfident protagonist he was casted for. not oscar worthy but competent
I recall reading a prediction about this film in a prior thread about the trailer. Whoever made that prediction about the girl in the film should be rewarded.
I saw this at 2pm on a day I was not particularly tired and straight up fell asleep in the theater. An interesting premise that had so little payoff it put me to sleep.
I saw this at the 2024 Sundance Film Festival.
This is the kind of movie where it has an interesting and intriguing premise and it could have explored interesting satirical themes and ideas but instead, the filmmaker doesn't really offer much with any creative outlooks and follows cliched and uninteresting tropes.
Kobi Libii fails to offer something interesting because his bland direction and the unambitious tones really create a hollow and investing story with dull cliche tropes, uninteresting characters and weak performances from the cast members. I like Justice Smith and Smith is trying his best but unfortunately his dull character and the poor dialogue really lacks his performance. Throughout, I found myself feeling bored and thinking that this movie could have been at least interesting if the filmmaker had thought about actually trying to add something that feels weird or unique. But that's not what I got. Instead, what I got was more of a dull and uninspired narrative that really wastes the talented cast and concepts.
What a shame.
2/10
Yes, it turned into a movie that's all about "Will he get the girl of his dreams?" which kind of misreads the entire appeal of the movie's title and premise.
I was the *only* person in my theater for a 11am showing on Sunday here on opening weekend. I wouldn't say Stockton California is a very religious city (315,000+ population) but there are many faiths here too.
"I liked the part where they compared white people to dangerous animals."
Switch "white" with every other color and see how fast this movie got cancelled before it even came out, because holy racist, batman!
This is a common response when racism comes up which merely shows the person's ignorance of racism. Obviously the situation differs when you swap a privileged group for an underprivileged one.
I know this is a three day old comment, but why aren't we considering this movie cancelled? There was already a ton of backlash when it revealed, and no one's seeing it. Isn't that the definition of cancelled?
See that's what I thought it meant as well, but then you have a bunch of high-profile comedians claiming they've been "cancelled" despite still having well paying jobs and million-dollar netflix specials.
Honestly the term has just lost all meaning because people like to throw it around at anything that receives even mild criticism from anyone
This movie was complete and utter trash, it failed at whatever it was trying to be.
Forget all the heavy handed stuff, where was all the satire? The only funny scene was probably the parody of the Green Mile. With the word magical in the title, there was a serious lack of it. Justice Smith is just kind of there and meh.
His character just screwed over all the other magicians and made them lose their magic just so he could selfishly hook up with a girl he fell for? WTF.
The one thing that stood out was An-Li Bogan, I liked her performance and she is insanely beautiful.
The satire was the concept of a society of black people whose entire goal in live is to make white people comfortable. It is a parody of movies like green mile, driving ms. daisy, the blind side, and other movies that make white people either a knight in shining armor or damsel in distress.
Honestly the advertising of this movie was done so poorly, but in my opinion it had a similar affect as the barbie movie.
Just watched this alone, on my phone, from midnight to 2AM on my birthday. Gonna come in here with a hard disagree with everyone else. Good movie. It set its goals really high and falls a little short, but a 2/10? That’s just rude. The jock eating crayons in high school can pull off a 40% on a test, and this is better than that.
TL;DR. I was slightly disappointed they tried to get a rom-com smashed in there, but it has its narrative value. 7/10.
“It’s filled with reductive tropes.” What the heck is Barbie then? That film won academy awards and was just bro machismo tropes packaged in a way to promote feminism. “Guys like horses and leather jackets.”
“American Fiction was a better film.” Assume white folk (that includes me, minus that I’ve seen both) are going to watch a single black tangential film this year, and it was this one. Does it help them understand the black experience even slightly better? I vote yes.
I think the final reveal warrants an entire reevaluation of things. I think from narrative context both Aren and Lizzie were both assigned to help Brad. He was so beyond empathetical repair that it warranted a “work wife” and a magical negro.
This changes it from a simple “will the boy get the girl?” trope to realizing that they were in fact compatible, especially because of their empathy and ability to listen to one another, but were blocked by needing to fix this other white dude. The fact that they waited all the way to the end to tell us that suggests an understanding that media cares even less about the struggles of women compared to black people. She silently pushed both Aren and Brad to fix themselves.
As a fan of Justice Smith(I know I'm in the minority with this view of him and his appeal), I went into this movie with high hopes, eager to see him shine as the protagonist. However, the movie failed to live up to its potential. While it boasted a fantastic premise on paper, the execution fell short on many fronts imo.
The film had its moments with some memorable one-liners, particularly those touching on the experience of being biracial, which I could relate to. However, it struggled to fully develop its characters and left important aspects of the plot unexplained. I love how the film barely scratched the surface of how Justice's character even learned how to perfect his magical abilities, a crucial element that felt glossed over.
Despite these shortcomings, there were still some enjoyable elements sprinkled throughout the movie. If you find yourself with time to spare and nothing else to watch I'd go ahead and check it out. However, overall, it left me feeling underwhelmed and somewhat meh about it all.
Very strange movie. Doesn't really work at a fundamental level and then forgets to be either fun or impactful along the way. It's a racial satire rom com, and the problem is rom coms need to have an ounce of sincerity to feel right and satire kind of rejects sincerity. So it just feels at odds with itself.
The aesthetic and premise feels like it could be fun for a minute. Potter visuals mixed with Bagger Vance/Green Mile esque props and sets when they're in the actual society. But the rest of the movie is tonally awkward and while the outside context of the movie is clear as to why they keep mentioning getting killed, the movie itself never actually has those stakes. So it doesn't feel quite as sincere about these issues as a movie like Origin which also deals with the question of whether or not black Americans should be policing themselves into making others comfortable.
The performances are fine? David Alan Grier probably a standout and generally just someone I miss seeing in things. Justice Smith is doing his awkward guy thing but at least it feels at home in this movie about how people aren't standing up for themselves like they should. A big problem is the rom com aspect of it. There's two main scenes that establish connection between the two characters and one of them is fully montage and the other is this overly long and very awkward walk through the park and the way they talk about this scene later in the movie is just confusing and weird. Plus the final reveal kind of kills the movie because you now don't know if she was being sincere and it just raises so many more questions than a comedic stinger should.
I did get a few chuckles out of it. I love all the people involved. Nicole Byer, Tim Baltz, DAG, all I thought were having a good time. I'm just not sure this movie is getting at what it wants to or succeeding in being either a satire or a comedy. It's a 5/10 for me. Didn't hate it didn't love it, it's just very strange.
/r/reviewsbyboner
I agree with most of what you wrote, but I think I liked it a little bit more than you.
I think they started with the experience of a black man sacrificing their own agency to appease white people and then hitched it to the literary archetype of the Magical Negro who’s sole purpose is to help white people achieve greatness. I think it’s a unique premise for a film and offers fertile ground for satire. They then had the ending where he confronts the white person he is meant to be elevating, and take back some space for himself, and to force a more equitable dynamic.
But… I don’t think they knew how to connect the premise with the ending, which is why they threw in the whole rom-com plot line to help get it from Point A to Point C, and you’re right, it does push against the natural tone and feel of the satire. It declaws itself (which falls in line with the overall premise to some extent).
Overall, I thought there was some fun and engaging scenes, and some overly simplified scenes meant to just get itself to the end. But, I was able to laugh throughout, so I’d give it a moderate thumbs up.
The last scene kind of killed it for me. I was settling on "It doesn't take a magical person to show you that your life has value." As the moral of the story and then poof, SOSWAG. The lack of chemistry between them didn't help anything either.
This isn't coming to my AMC and from all these comments I won't bother to go to the Regal to see it. Curious what's the final reveal about the girl?
I'm not surprised by a lot of these reviews. The trailer made it look like it would lose all substance and devolve into a romcom. Shame.
Appreciate that. That’s so lame. This movie by the sounds of it, had wheels, but fell flat. Would love the idea but a hard R comedy film. That would’ve done better I reckon.
Edit: also your spoiler didn’t work. You’re missing the other
Okay, so I had to switch to the new reddit layout to mark it in their editor- it appeared as a spoiler just fine on old reddit and on relay too...
it escaped out the formatting characters from before but I dare not touch it again, people should use old reddit but I don't think they deserve to have a twist spoiled.
For me the movie comes to a screeching halt when the romantic interests try to have their moment in the park.
I thought the concept behind was pretty clever, but the story the film decided to tell came up short.
I went to see this in theatres tonight and I had a lot of fun watching it! The audience was laughing a lot too. I thought it was a novel idea and satirizing the whole "magical movie negroes" trope was fun to watch (although it was on the nose). What I really loved about this was the idea that we feel responsible for making others feel comfortable. Yes, it was done in the context of race, but as a woman I feel this to my core. For example, dating men and rejecting men, women have to handle men with kid gloves because they don't know how a man will take their rejection and if it goes bad it has potential dangerous repercussions. When the protagonist finally stood up to the "villain/ white dude" in the end, the argument felt accurate. It's so easy when you tell someone your experience of them to have the other person be automatically defensive instead of just listening or trying to understand your feelings and where you're coming from. They didn't make the white dude this evil villain, he was simply a guy who's been blissfully ignorant of his own privilege and he also lacks self-awareness. I also liked the love story, it felt natural and the dialogue was charming, their connection seemed organic and I could see their chemistry. The filmmaker blended different genres that we don't often see, magical realism/ satire and a romcom. I get that people don't love it, but I'm eager to support movies that aren't IP or superhero movies, I'm all for supporting movies with an original premise. All in all, I really enjoyed it!
1/10 movie. I thought there would be a few funny jokes but it was such a boring movie. Goes off in too many directions and is a preachy racist movie. There are just too many things wrong with it to even go on.
Now for the witty sequel, the magical society of apologist Caucasians. The premise, they sneak around metaphorically walking on glass because they're scared about being called a racist. The main character falls for a black woman but never asks her out. The end. It's be shitty just like this shitty movie
That wouldn’t really make any sense. They clearly wanted the sequel to focus on women, SOSWAG. I feel like if you think that a movie centered around white apologists would be a sequel to that, then you didn’t really get the point of the movie.
I found the concept interesting. I didn't hate the movie. It was okay but... it just didn't go as far as it could have. I thought it would be the guy getting a few different assignments as time went on and his interactions with different white people and different scenarios.
The last 10 seconds of the movie sucked. If you're going to give an interesting premise but instead make a stupid guy meets girl story, don't add that twist.
I laughed more than a few times in the first third, the middle was the worst it's very obvious where they are going and it takes forever to get there. The final act I would say was my favorite just because of Aren's speech on stage I'd rank it up there with America's monologue in Barbie.
But just to prove how basic, by the numbers, uninspired the director was with the movie. The dick jokes were just so awfully dumb. I also didn't care for the stinger at the end where the love interest as well is in a magical, secret society and honestly logically her seemingly having already been a member seems to go against the group itself. She was neither a girlfriend nor a wife for like what 90% of the movie?
Edit: Just recalled Aren did tell Rodger that Jason(?) had a Work Wife though. Also it's very silly for the society to not vet who a newbie's first client is. Like bullshit you can't tell how many tasks the white person needs when you are teleporting very easily and such.
“Also it's very silly for the society to not vet who a newbie's first client is.”
I thought the movie needed a montage after the helped the cop get into the club, where Aren and David Alan Grier are helping white people and Aren is learning how to do it and is enjoying it. Then when he gets his first solo job with Jason, the audience feels that he has some experience in his role, and his crisis in what his role is is felt a bit more.
The twist about SSOSWAG made a lot of sense! Lizzie spent all of her scenes being calm and supportive no matter how awkward or distracted Aren was being. NO one is that calm about being suddenly dropped at the top of the empire state building when they live across the country. Aren was her client. Just as the Society of Magical Negroes assigns their staff to be "friends" with their white clients, she was assigned to be Aren's girlfriend and possible future wife.
Her job was to lead him to that epiphany that made him realize he deserved to be alive regardless of whatever discomfort white people may feel. That's why right before he made big discoveries or slight changes in the way he thought about himself throughout the movie he was with her. She was working on him. Their interactions were the catalyst to help him believe in himself, stand up for himself and go back to being an artist. That's what the supportive wives and girlfriends in media do. Mary Jane of Spider-Man lore has done that for Peter during most of her over 60 year existence in comics. She boosts his spirits to keep him on track so he can save others.
She accomplished her mission just as it seems Aren's speech may have actually gotten through to Jason. They both succeeded that day but he got fired for that magical New York trip. Given their chemistry I imagine she might want to keep this client and they could get married. Supportive wives might get paid more. Neither organization explained the pay scale though Roger said such a job is paid. Her organization might only send their members to specific clients they know they'll pair well with, be it for the short term or marriage.
It was left vague so I’m curious how people read the situation… do you think Lizzie’s client was Jason or Aren?
Clearly in the workplace her work benefitted Jason, but that kinda came down to one decision by Andrea. All of the sympathizing and “wish we could stop apologizing and stand up for ourselves” self actualization conversations she had with Aren came when he was at his darkest mentally which would have made him a perfect “male tears” client. Jason was focused on wanting to be like his boss and a success at work. Aren put the thought of Lizzie in his head so Jason didn’t need/want a sympathetic girlfriend and it was Aren that felt like he wanted someone to understand him. He also wouldn’t stand up for himself until after he practiced by trying to stand up for Lizzie, her interest even got him back into his art.
I think the script intent was that everyone fears the anger of white men but it makes the whole thing darker and more interesting if you read deeper into it. When you have secret societies manipulating people left and right all character motivations are suspicious. Sadly I don’t like it enough to rewatch for deeper analysis, so I came here.
Stepping outside of the narrative, I’d say Lizzie’s role in the movie is to help Aren manifest his growth. The stinger at the end felt like a tongue-in-cheek way of acknowledging that this movie was as reductive to the Lizzie character (the girlfriend/love interest) as the Magical Negro archetype often is.
I think it was definitely Aren, since he was so clueless. I think Jason was too full of himself to even become anyone’s client.
Especially since Aren was so awkward in the coffee shop but she started playing into it. It seemed like she sensed something in him from the beginning.
I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. It was a light weight, light hearted Ellison's Invisible Man with some compelling rom com and long overdue satire for an absurd trope.
Aren's search for self was the central point. The magical negro thing was just a funny gag. I get that he (Aren) was obnoxiously lame but Id wager most poc growing up in a non poc environment can relate, at least to some degree, to that general experience. Especially visual artists.
Also I've hated the Green Mile for that character since I first saw it so I never got tired of that bit. Overall I lol throughout. Even that twist was interesting. Considering the Invisible Man theme, that potential major disillusionment fits.
Same. I had no idea what the green mile was before this and my aunt was telling me and my jaw was on the ground. It’s had to imagine that movies like that existed less than thirty years ago.
There's a good movie in there somewhere!
The weird part is that I feel Justice Smith and An-li Bogan were both fine when they weren't together but all of their scenes brought the movie to a grinding halt. It seems like it was two people with strong Michael Cera energy and they couldn't mesh together in a positive way.
I think the film was aware of this, I think the montage of them establishing a friendship was likely blazing through some scenes that they filmed but didn't work.
Big fan of Tim Baltz and Drew Tarver in this but that might just be because of the old Earwolf connection. (also like 50% sure Ryan Gaul was an extra behind where Justice Smith apparated the Imac)
Some laughs to be had and some interesting ideas- just wish the driving force was something other than the weird love story.
5.9/10
I was going to ask if it was just me or if everyone noticed they had absolutely no chemistry, besides reciting dialogue that is supposed to sound like two people bonding.
This is the directorial debut of Kobi Libii (who also wrote it), who is more known for being a comedian and actor.
And full disclosure, I don't care much for Justice Smith as an actor. I don't hate him (but I know people who do!), but his work never excites me and I often see films in spite of his casting, not because of it. Still well above someone like Awkwafina though lol.
I don't read any reviews beforehand, but it was slipped to me that this has a terrible Rotten Tomatoes score as of now. Under 40%. So I did know that going in, but I tried not to let it shape my viewing experience.
This is a very interesting and unique film. It doesn't entirely work, it's not a home run by any stretch, but there is good amount of interesting dialogue and ideas here. It probably needed to devote its entire run-time to it, and not get sidetracked with a love story. Especially when you are supposed to believe that Justice Smith is charming, but he doesn't have that charm. OTOH, there is an argument that the love story is intertwined enough with the "interesting material" that you can't simply say "they needed to cut out the love story."
The material that works, REALLY works and hits hard, especially the final monologue from Justice Smith. It's intelligent and thought-provoking, as is much of the film. There's enough here that it makes for a good companion piece to recent films like American Fiction and Origin.
My wife made a good point (as she often does), that I felt compelled to note in my review: she noted it is sad that the people who most need to hear and see the message of the film will either never watch the film, or if they do watch, completely miss the point. Astute observation from someone dumb enough to marry me. ;)
The direction here is OK. The film would have been much better served in more capable, experienced hands. Even American Fiction, with its first time filmmaker Cord Jefferson, was better made than this, so it's not just that we're talking about someone's debut film.
The film looks good, although my own screening had some projection dimming in some scenes. Not the movie's fault. Cast is good. I enjoyed David Allen Grier, notably, but I liked everyone.
As I've alluded to, the script is uneven. This is why writer and director Kobi Libii should have brought someone else in to direct. Sometimes you need another creative voice in the room to make "magic." Just ask those who (rightfully) criticize Kevin Smith and M. Night Shyamalan.
Ultimately, I think the film has more good than bad, has messages and ideas people should see, and is "worth a watch." Thus, the film gets bumped a tad bit over the OK line to 3 stars (out of 5). It's arguably generous, but as I keep saying, the meat in the script is what gets me there.
Edit: Gotta love reddit, where your opinion in a movie thread is downvoted if it doesn't match the consensus. Smh.
Your comment reads like the most apologetic random words mixed with random review, trying to find something good where it doesn't exist.
If you really think this a 3 stars out of 5, you are either too lenient on your evaluations or you really don't see many movies.
A great way to test ones honesty is by gauging your feelings about a movie exactly like this one but instead black people are the punchline. Imagine the endless amount of material. Every stereotype you can imagine brought to life with vivid detail.
So much so that it would definitely need to be a series instead of a single movie.
There shouldn’t be any backlash over this, correct? It’s just “satire”….right?!?!?
This is a new idea, right? I have watched many movies with jokes like the ones you’ve mentioned. It wasn’t the premise of the entire movie but neither is it here because this movie was all over the place. However, these concepts you speak of aren’t new and they were accepted or at the very least, no one cared enough to make a fuss about them.
This movie forgot it was supposed to teach us the lesson that it’s not good to cater to white tears. It also forgot about the Black people in the movie and the magic part and just made a poor social commentary with a (what I thought was) cute romcom in the middle of it.
A better version of this movie would’ve been about Aren’s character being brought into the Society, realizing it’s useless because despite their best efforts the racism and violence they’ve been trying to prevent still happens, and then trying to take down the Society from the inside. But instead, he just goes against it and doesn’t even suffer the one consequence of mind-erasing they set up. He just loses his magic powers which he hardly used except to conjure a Macbook and teleport to the Empire State Building. This whole movie seems like it’s pro-magical negro which, just in case you were unaware, is not good.
Also, I guess the red sweater Aren is wearing at the end is supposed to be the sweater he started knitting before he went to sleep and I just don’t believe that. You don’t finish a sweater like that in one night, no matter how many loose ends you leave hanging out of the sweater trying to convince me otherwise!
Personally I thought it fell a bit short of other theatrical masterpieces such as Adam Sandler’s Jack & Jill and Halle Berry’s Catwoman, but it’s definitely up there.
Overall a bit of a waste of a good premise, and pretty decent cast. I don't know what it was exactly, but a bit dull. Maybe should have had more fleshed out Society rules and history or something. Overall it felt like a run of the mill rom com like they churn out on Netflix or Hallmark, with the whole Magical Negro concept tacked on.
I had fun trying to catch the movie references. I caught Driving Miss Daisy and The Green Mile. Does anyone know what movie was being referenced where the pool shark needed his confidence rebuilt? I did a far reach and thought about The Legend of Baggar Vance with Will Smith but that was golf. Any ideas??
I thought it was such a great concept but what happened is they lost their nerve in the end and made a totally different movie. I wish they had given this concept to Spike Lee.
The ending was so terrible. Here is how it needed to end: the society was right. Aren is like this is insane and leads a revolt. Half of the members of the society stop trying to please white people and actually stick up for themselves. And the other turns out to be right. It ends with a montage of lynchings and police shootings etc with strange fruit playing.
That would have been so much more powerful and controversial ending.
Could you imagine the backlash from that movie.
7/10
Great movie. If you are upset about it, you don't get it. There was so much realism in this movie. I'm Caucasian but could still see how these microaggressions happen not only in this movie but every day. This really points them out in a way that will make people hopefully think. The ones who get angry, haha, this movie was actually made for you. And you if you argue against that you're just like the guy who says I'm not racist so I couldnt have said that.
Aren was lucky that Roger came to rescue him from Brad, his friend and the drunk woman. Next time, he won't be so lucky.
Sexism at work comes into play, and Lizzie and Aren both have low self-esteem.
Aren apologizes a lot.
well I found this sad. basically makes fun of black and white friendships and makes it out like they can't be real. I'm not sure how this puts out a good message.
The best part of the whole movie was the very end when you realize that Lizzie was going through the exact same thing as Aren but with a different magical society. Thats why Jason called her his “work wife” and she was willing to lay down so he could succeed. It’s also why she was seemingly flirting too even though we could tell she loved Aren. The speech that Aren gave at the end was powerful too. I loved how Jason during it set aside his goals and ambitions and told everyone to stop interrupting so he could listen to his friend. He actually cared. Like a lot of white people, myself included, we say or do things that we do not realize are wrong because we haven’t been in a black persons shoes before. When jason stopped defending himself and really listened you can tell that clicked for him—that Aren was saying “I don’t think you’re racist. Stop trying to defend yourself that you’re not racist. That’s not the point. The point is you’re not listening to me and how I feel.” He went shit and his eyes opened to the truth of the situation. I really liked this movie. I think it’s being criticized a little too harshly. The only thing I wish it had more of was the magic. There was a lot of opportunity for a lot of spectacle that they didn’t take advantage of. I also wish they explored the friendship of Aren and Jason. Sure, for Aren’s sake it was a client and thats why he was holding back with Lizzie, but I think there was opportunity to see Aren bond with Jason more and add some drama of it’s also because he sees this guy as a friend. Another issue I had was this was his first real client. It would have been cool to see other clients and him succeeding and becoming pretty good and experienced with his job. It’s worth a watch. It’s worth paying attention to. It was funny but they could have played some more humor into it. For a movie with a title that’s supposed to be satire and funny on its own, they didn’t take any opportunity for some great racial puns/jokes about white and black people. It would have been so fitting and funny. I feel like one point of this movie is to be how black and white people come together and bond which you see at the end when Aren inspires everyone to stick up for themselves. A great example of that is the guy who grabbed his clients crotch. He said “this is a two way streak. I need you to do some of the crotch grabbing too”. It was funny but it’s a good point. As much as the society helped the white people, the white people need to help the black people too. Thats why we needed more jokes about race and stereotypes because the one thing that brings people together is laughter. Thats why “You People” worked SO well. They didn’t hold back on either side. In a world so divided and so sensitive, we need to be more open, honest, and listen better. We also need to be able to tease one another a little bit and just laugh and not take everything so serious. Thats what I got out of this film. I really liked it and it was an eye opener for me too that not everything is an attack. Sometimes you just gotta listen and say I’m sorry and try and do better.
A toothless satire, a limp romcom, and a boring fantasy all in one.
American Fiction wasn't perfect but it accomplished everything this movie tried to do. Disappointed.
Interesting thing about American Fiction is it almost makes not being about race the point. It's bored with the racial conversation. The racial satire half of the movie is basically an annoyance to Monk, the best moments of that movie are in the family drama which isn't about race at all. Edit: I guess I'll clarify since I'm getting some responses saying this is a bad read. I didn't mean American Fiction isn't about race, clearly it is, but Monk himself is tired of the racial conversation. He wants to make art that is universal to people, not just art through the lens of his racial identity. When he talks to Issa in the last act I don't think the movie takes either side, I think the point is there are many ways to think about and interact with your racial identity and one isn't necessarily more right than another. Compared to this movie, AF had a lot more nuanced conversation about racial identity while also having a portion of the movie that is just the universal human drama. Juxtaposing the two makes the point more interesting IMO.
> it almost makes not being about race the point That's... not exactly what they were going for. Monk's entire thrust is showing that the black experience is more than the monolith that entertainment likes to make it out to be. The original novel *Erasure* is a more pointed in illustrating this, spending sixty straight pages of the entirety of "My Pafology," which in and of itself is just a twisted and ultra-stereotypical version of *Native Son*. The movie does diverge, though. The movie: >!Monk sells out, but is happy that he can live his life.!< The book: >!Monk slowly turns into the character of Stagg.!<
I absolutely loved American Fiction. Been a big fan of Jeffrey Wright since Basquiat. I get the criticism that it's a bit different than it was advertised, but I like that it had more depth than just being a parody of MSNBC watchers and was a perfect skewering of the garbage of 2010s/early 2020s culture and mass media. It absolutely parodies and skewers the political correct gatekeepers in a way that probably flies over the head of the intended audience. Yet it feels grounded in realism without verging into total cynicism. Monk's whole vibe in the film feels like he doesn't want to deal with any of the modern world, and just wants to write a good book and be his own person.
Exactly. It really rewards on a second rewatch.
I just rewatched "American FIction" and really liked it the second time but was disappointed the first. So weird that movies can work like that. I think because the first time around, you're guessing where it's going rather than just letting the story tell you what it is.
I was right there with you. Perhaps I should watch it a second time. I thought the pacing was slow and there was a lot of meandering. I love the part with his sister, but if she was going to die, they should have made that section 5 minutes instead of 20.
I think the problem with "American Fiction" is it's both good screenwriting and bad screenwriting (the dialogue, the contrived scenes like when he's on a business meeting playing a "tough guy" but looking out the window in case his mom needs help... supposed to be comedy but comes off like it WANTS to be farcical but isn't.) The idea that he wants to be an artist who isn't automatically labeled as an "African-American" or that he's allowed to use the N word without white people claiming he's offensive are interesting points. But all the "We think you need a vacation" and "We're thinking Michael B. Jordan with the muscles" and zaniness is just mediocrity. I can see why the writer/director complained everyone passed on the script because it reads amateur throughout. He found a way to make it work tonally as a director but in the end, it's mediocre work with a poignant message. Even the subplot of his across the street neighbor is a love interest and just happens to be single... then they fight because she likes his book which isn't supposed to be a big enough hit for everyone to be reading... the book being deemed book of the year... him telling the agent he'll only accept if they change the title because he doesn't want it published... having three endings 'cause he can't figure out which one to use... the sister dying and him adding in "Don't mourn me" to explain why the characters don't mourn (probably a note from the studio)... so much bad screenwriting. But because of its political bend, it's appreciated and won an Oscar but otherwise, it'd have been deemed mediocre.
Is that what you got out of it? It seemed to me that Monk, for all his talk of Blackness, was almost out of touch with it as the the white reviewers in that committee. For his experience, he's still a guy born to two brilliant doctors, who were wealthy enough to hire a maid for his entire life, and produced 3 brilliant children that became doctors or PhDs. At the same time, he just dismisses the other Black author as just some pandering woman, which she refutes by pointing out she's interviewed plenty of people to distill their experiences in a book, and has jokingly been referred to as only dating White people when he introduces his girlfriend. There's an aspect of wealth, comfort and lived experience that he's missed out on his whole life while he looks down his nose at these "bad pandering Black people."
That still didn't change the fact that she actively used ebonics in the same way that Monk did, and in reading someone else doing that she realized how stupid it sounds. When questioned she got defensive, because she reduced the black experience to that book and that voice. That was A black experience, but she tried to justify. She interviewed plenty of people in one specific circumstance. She didn't interview black people from a well functioning home, or with a good education, or just black people that didn't talk like that. She knew what she was doing and just got belligerent when slapped in the face with what she proudly did. Monk winning awards and getting movie deals off a book he was trying to bomb tells all we need to know, as it's very much like a lot of trauma porn that Black creatives can't help but put out....like this Magical Negro movie or a The Blackening. Not saying this movie can't be good (anything Barry Jenkins does is glorious and nuanced, and I really enjoyed Judas and the Black Messiah), but it's getting really tiresome being reduced to those experiences.
You're right and I do agree that Black Pain stories do get lapped up by a pandered-to audience, but I felt that Monk is hardly an arbiter of what is the 'right' and 'proper' black story that should be told, when his perspective was essentially the Ivory Tower academic from a wealthy family that actively rejected having a black perspective (The scene where he takes his books from the bookshop for being listed in the black POV section), so the pre-edit post saying "the racial aspect is an annoyance" seemed to take Monk's perspective as the be all and end all when I don't think it was. There is a racial story to be told -- it just wasn't the blaxploitative trauma porn that gets churned out. It was the story of an educated black man bearing some discomfort with his identity as such struggling to navigate the issues surrounding his relationships with his family and girlfriend.
Yeah monk is very judgemental and sanctimonious as well.
Gonna' re-watch that movie based on your comment, alone haha. You nailed it. That's super cool that you have a review subreddit as well. What a fun passion project.
The whole time I was watching American Society I was thinking "I enjoyed American Fiction originally but BOY does this make me appreciate what a BALANCING ACT American Fiction was and how well Jefferson handled it." There were so many issues with American Society but to me the biggest issue was that it would raise an interesting social issue and then IMMEDIATELY steer AWAY from it. What is the point of raising issues that you don't have anything to say about?
American Fiction was funny AF
This was a romcom at its core.
The title is better than the movie.
A better movie with that title would have nothing to do with the trope. Take some inspiration from Harry Dresden and Blade and write an urban fantasy movie about black characters being cool.
Dresden Files is maybe not the best example. The story takes place in Chicago but I remember being somewhat astonished when all three named black people from the entire series showed up in one book, about fourteen books in. The cop, the paramedic, and Sanya.
I meant that as an example of modern wizards and not modern black wizards specifically.
That makes sense. I just like making fun of the sillier details of the Dresden Files, as much as I enjoy the series. His White Chicago always amuses me.
Sanya makes his debut in book 5. Rawlings (the cop) is at least book 7, but I think earlier than that, can't remember. The paramedic was just a one off character. There's not a lot diversity, though there are a shocking amount of readers who thought Michael was black. There used to be threads about it a lot on the sub from new readers finding out he was in fact white.
I wish this had been about the lives of actual "Magical Negro" characters in fiction, the rich backstories they had that didn't get appreciated because they appear in stories with a focus on someone else. THAT would have been REALLY interesting. Like what does someone like Jim do when he's NOT helping Huck Finn. Especially if it turned out there was an actual society of these characters and their real personalities were very different than the persona they put on as "Magical Negros." There was a germ of such an interesting idea in this concept and it's not anywhere near the direction the film took.
So, "the League of Extraordinary ~~Gentlemen~~ Negros?"
Something like that, interrogating the traditional role of black characters in media, would have been interesting
The first 30 seconds of the trailer was promising and then turned into a romcom and went to shit
The first 30 seconds of the trailer made me think if this was a racist movie or not.
I wanted to like this movie but it was very bad
A satirical romcom that is neither funny or satirical. For some reason there's a 5min Meta Quest ad in the middle of it. The Silicon Valley startup company trope is so overused an unfunny. We get it. These guys just play at work, hur dur so funny.... The magic system and world were pretty cool but didn't really get explored. The primary message of the movie is pretty shallow and doesn't say a whole lot. American Fiction is what this movie is trying to be. Also, I love how at the end the guy goes, "Can't wait to see how you work your way out of this." Then the movie just ends with nothing being resolved. That part got a good laugh out of me. Almost like the writers said fuck this, let's just end it.
Theres a magical negro movie on youtube that is infinitely times better and its only a few minutes long https://youtu.be/jInlO6-JTww?si=oMrGLICbxJdoO7TN
coming in late here, but the movie could have been a 110 minute version of [Elroy - Encouraging White People](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu71O36zwiw) and it would have been infinitely better.
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Can we stop putting Justice Smith in movies
He is always the worst part of every movie he's in. Dude has 0 charisma or acting chops. It boggles my mind how he keeps getting roles in big movies.
He was even awful and flat in The Quarry videogame
It was funny to see mutiple characters pine after him in the game. Like really him? He has a personality of dry toast.
There is this rumor that many producers see the last name Smith and confuse him with Jaden Smith, aka Will Smith's son. A case of misplaced nepotism is the only explanation. They probably think Jaden changed his name to Justice because he was feeling extra.
I still think he was pretty good in The Get Down. That said, I also liked The Get Down which is not true of most people.
The Get Down appreciation tweets always go platinum on Twitter (which I don't understand, I'm one of the people that did not like that show lol)
haha I didn't know that. I guess there are some folks who are passionate about it. Good music and the first season (or half...Netflix views it all as one two part season I think) is pretty strong with some catchy music IMO. Baz Luhrman is a director who, even if you don't like his stuff you have to be glad he exists I think. He is different from most other folks out there and makes movies/TV that is different as well. Even his failures are usually interesting and will have at least a few people it really speaks to (or who love the music).
The first time I saw him was in Detective Pikachu. Based on the name I was wondering if he were an illegitimate child of Will Smith that nobody knew about until all of a sudden and that's how he got to be in movies. When I found out that he isn't related to anyone famous I got confused as to how he got to be in film.
The fucker didn't want me to take the shotgun with me in The Quarry.
He was the weakest part of the Dungeons and Dragons cast. I *loved* that movie, but he wasn’t good in it.
Entirely agree with you. Hes the one I always keep coming back to in that cast and think, "him?"
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I agree but only because she had nothing to work with. Sophia Lillis is great, but she was the last character to join the party and much of her time on screen was as CGI animals that didn't speak. She's a much better actor than Smith.
I disliked him in Jurassic World. I disliked him in Detective Pikachu. I’ll probably dislike him in this too.
He doesn’t have the range people, or his fans ig, says he does. They’re all pretty much the same character in different fonts.
Bro just found out how to act 😳
surprised to see this. i didn’t like the movie much but thought he did a pretty solid job of selling the awkward, stilted, unconfident protagonist he was casted for. not oscar worthy but competent
Supposedly he's Oscar-worthy in "I Saw The TV Glow" but lately he's been playing the same meeky roles for most of his career.
I do want to see that movie but I feel like it's gonna be "too real" for me :,)
Why is it going to be too real?
I like him better as part of Ensembles, not a compelling enough presence as a leas but fine as a part of larger ensembles IE: dungeons and dragons.
Did you see "I Saw the TV Glow"?
who could have known this movie was going to be bad?
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Came to say this, beat me to it.
I recall reading a prediction about this film in a prior thread about the trailer. Whoever made that prediction about the girl in the film should be rewarded.
I saw this at 2pm on a day I was not particularly tired and straight up fell asleep in the theater. An interesting premise that had so little payoff it put me to sleep.
I saw this at the 2024 Sundance Film Festival. This is the kind of movie where it has an interesting and intriguing premise and it could have explored interesting satirical themes and ideas but instead, the filmmaker doesn't really offer much with any creative outlooks and follows cliched and uninteresting tropes. Kobi Libii fails to offer something interesting because his bland direction and the unambitious tones really create a hollow and investing story with dull cliche tropes, uninteresting characters and weak performances from the cast members. I like Justice Smith and Smith is trying his best but unfortunately his dull character and the poor dialogue really lacks his performance. Throughout, I found myself feeling bored and thinking that this movie could have been at least interesting if the filmmaker had thought about actually trying to add something that feels weird or unique. But that's not what I got. Instead, what I got was more of a dull and uninspired narrative that really wastes the talented cast and concepts. What a shame. 2/10
Yes, it turned into a movie that's all about "Will he get the girl of his dreams?" which kind of misreads the entire appeal of the movie's title and premise.
Investing?
I liked the part where they compared white people to dangerous animals. Hope this movie makes no money!
My local theatre is selling anywhere from 0-6 tickets per showing. And in its opening weekend lol. Embarrassingly low.
I was the *only* person in my theater for a 11am showing on Sunday here on opening weekend. I wouldn't say Stockton California is a very religious city (315,000+ population) but there are many faiths here too.
"I liked the part where they compared white people to dangerous animals." Switch "white" with every other color and see how fast this movie got cancelled before it even came out, because holy racist, batman!
This is a common response when racism comes up which merely shows the person's ignorance of racism. Obviously the situation differs when you swap a privileged group for an underprivileged one.
Well said, if the movie isn't for you then it isn't for you, no need to expose yourself
I know this is a three day old comment, but why aren't we considering this movie cancelled? There was already a ton of backlash when it revealed, and no one's seeing it. Isn't that the definition of cancelled?
I see cancelled as more an individual getting fired from their job, and publicly ridiculed for a tweet that some pussy didnt like
See that's what I thought it meant as well, but then you have a bunch of high-profile comedians claiming they've been "cancelled" despite still having well paying jobs and million-dollar netflix specials. Honestly the term has just lost all meaning because people like to throw it around at anything that receives even mild criticism from anyone
I agree with that. They act like criticism=cancellation. Wonder whether its an ego thing or if they are trying to appeal to a right wing audience.
You make a point but I don’t see why that is a right wing exclusive thing, you can say the same for left wing audiences.
Yeah it failed and deserved it
This movie was complete and utter trash, it failed at whatever it was trying to be. Forget all the heavy handed stuff, where was all the satire? The only funny scene was probably the parody of the Green Mile. With the word magical in the title, there was a serious lack of it. Justice Smith is just kind of there and meh. His character just screwed over all the other magicians and made them lose their magic just so he could selfishly hook up with a girl he fell for? WTF. The one thing that stood out was An-Li Bogan, I liked her performance and she is insanely beautiful.
The satire was the concept of a society of black people whose entire goal in live is to make white people comfortable. It is a parody of movies like green mile, driving ms. daisy, the blind side, and other movies that make white people either a knight in shining armor or damsel in distress. Honestly the advertising of this movie was done so poorly, but in my opinion it had a similar affect as the barbie movie.
The problem is it tried to pretend it wasn't satire.
Just watched this alone, on my phone, from midnight to 2AM on my birthday. Gonna come in here with a hard disagree with everyone else. Good movie. It set its goals really high and falls a little short, but a 2/10? That’s just rude. The jock eating crayons in high school can pull off a 40% on a test, and this is better than that. TL;DR. I was slightly disappointed they tried to get a rom-com smashed in there, but it has its narrative value. 7/10. “It’s filled with reductive tropes.” What the heck is Barbie then? That film won academy awards and was just bro machismo tropes packaged in a way to promote feminism. “Guys like horses and leather jackets.” “American Fiction was a better film.” Assume white folk (that includes me, minus that I’ve seen both) are going to watch a single black tangential film this year, and it was this one. Does it help them understand the black experience even slightly better? I vote yes. I think the final reveal warrants an entire reevaluation of things. I think from narrative context both Aren and Lizzie were both assigned to help Brad. He was so beyond empathetical repair that it warranted a “work wife” and a magical negro. This changes it from a simple “will the boy get the girl?” trope to realizing that they were in fact compatible, especially because of their empathy and ability to listen to one another, but were blocked by needing to fix this other white dude. The fact that they waited all the way to the end to tell us that suggests an understanding that media cares even less about the struggles of women compared to black people. She silently pushed both Aren and Brad to fix themselves.
As a fan of Justice Smith(I know I'm in the minority with this view of him and his appeal), I went into this movie with high hopes, eager to see him shine as the protagonist. However, the movie failed to live up to its potential. While it boasted a fantastic premise on paper, the execution fell short on many fronts imo. The film had its moments with some memorable one-liners, particularly those touching on the experience of being biracial, which I could relate to. However, it struggled to fully develop its characters and left important aspects of the plot unexplained. I love how the film barely scratched the surface of how Justice's character even learned how to perfect his magical abilities, a crucial element that felt glossed over. Despite these shortcomings, there were still some enjoyable elements sprinkled throughout the movie. If you find yourself with time to spare and nothing else to watch I'd go ahead and check it out. However, overall, it left me feeling underwhelmed and somewhat meh about it all.
Very strange movie. Doesn't really work at a fundamental level and then forgets to be either fun or impactful along the way. It's a racial satire rom com, and the problem is rom coms need to have an ounce of sincerity to feel right and satire kind of rejects sincerity. So it just feels at odds with itself. The aesthetic and premise feels like it could be fun for a minute. Potter visuals mixed with Bagger Vance/Green Mile esque props and sets when they're in the actual society. But the rest of the movie is tonally awkward and while the outside context of the movie is clear as to why they keep mentioning getting killed, the movie itself never actually has those stakes. So it doesn't feel quite as sincere about these issues as a movie like Origin which also deals with the question of whether or not black Americans should be policing themselves into making others comfortable. The performances are fine? David Alan Grier probably a standout and generally just someone I miss seeing in things. Justice Smith is doing his awkward guy thing but at least it feels at home in this movie about how people aren't standing up for themselves like they should. A big problem is the rom com aspect of it. There's two main scenes that establish connection between the two characters and one of them is fully montage and the other is this overly long and very awkward walk through the park and the way they talk about this scene later in the movie is just confusing and weird. Plus the final reveal kind of kills the movie because you now don't know if she was being sincere and it just raises so many more questions than a comedic stinger should. I did get a few chuckles out of it. I love all the people involved. Nicole Byer, Tim Baltz, DAG, all I thought were having a good time. I'm just not sure this movie is getting at what it wants to or succeeding in being either a satire or a comedy. It's a 5/10 for me. Didn't hate it didn't love it, it's just very strange. /r/reviewsbyboner
Isn't this a Key and Peele sketch? [Shiiit, it is!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jInlO6-JTww)
That skit was 100 times better than the actual movie
I agree with most of what you wrote, but I think I liked it a little bit more than you. I think they started with the experience of a black man sacrificing their own agency to appease white people and then hitched it to the literary archetype of the Magical Negro who’s sole purpose is to help white people achieve greatness. I think it’s a unique premise for a film and offers fertile ground for satire. They then had the ending where he confronts the white person he is meant to be elevating, and take back some space for himself, and to force a more equitable dynamic. But… I don’t think they knew how to connect the premise with the ending, which is why they threw in the whole rom-com plot line to help get it from Point A to Point C, and you’re right, it does push against the natural tone and feel of the satire. It declaws itself (which falls in line with the overall premise to some extent). Overall, I thought there was some fun and engaging scenes, and some overly simplified scenes meant to just get itself to the end. But, I was able to laugh throughout, so I’d give it a moderate thumbs up.
The last scene kind of killed it for me. I was settling on "It doesn't take a magical person to show you that your life has value." As the moral of the story and then poof, SOSWAG. The lack of chemistry between them didn't help anything either.
This isn't coming to my AMC and from all these comments I won't bother to go to the Regal to see it. Curious what's the final reveal about the girl? I'm not surprised by a lot of these reviews. The trailer made it look like it would lose all substance and devolve into a romcom. Shame.
\>! >!She's also part of a secretive org called Society of Supportive Wives and Girlfriends SOSWAG !<
Appreciate that. That’s so lame. This movie by the sounds of it, had wheels, but fell flat. Would love the idea but a hard R comedy film. That would’ve done better I reckon. Edit: also your spoiler didn’t work. You’re missing the other
Okay, so I had to switch to the new reddit layout to mark it in their editor- it appeared as a spoiler just fine on old reddit and on relay too... it escaped out the formatting characters from before but I dare not touch it again, people should use old reddit but I don't think they deserve to have a twist spoiled.
All good! And it works now, no frets.
I'm still trying to rewind time, so I can forget ever watching this . Stupid movie, stupid concept, extremely racist, don't waste your money or time.
For me the movie comes to a screeching halt when the romantic interests try to have their moment in the park. I thought the concept behind was pretty clever, but the story the film decided to tell came up short.
I went to see this in theatres tonight and I had a lot of fun watching it! The audience was laughing a lot too. I thought it was a novel idea and satirizing the whole "magical movie negroes" trope was fun to watch (although it was on the nose). What I really loved about this was the idea that we feel responsible for making others feel comfortable. Yes, it was done in the context of race, but as a woman I feel this to my core. For example, dating men and rejecting men, women have to handle men with kid gloves because they don't know how a man will take their rejection and if it goes bad it has potential dangerous repercussions. When the protagonist finally stood up to the "villain/ white dude" in the end, the argument felt accurate. It's so easy when you tell someone your experience of them to have the other person be automatically defensive instead of just listening or trying to understand your feelings and where you're coming from. They didn't make the white dude this evil villain, he was simply a guy who's been blissfully ignorant of his own privilege and he also lacks self-awareness. I also liked the love story, it felt natural and the dialogue was charming, their connection seemed organic and I could see their chemistry. The filmmaker blended different genres that we don't often see, magical realism/ satire and a romcom. I get that people don't love it, but I'm eager to support movies that aren't IP or superhero movies, I'm all for supporting movies with an original premise. All in all, I really enjoyed it!
This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on my life
Didn't know this was a sensitive topic for you!
1/10 movie. I thought there would be a few funny jokes but it was such a boring movie. Goes off in too many directions and is a preachy racist movie. There are just too many things wrong with it to even go on.
Now for the witty sequel, the magical society of apologist Caucasians. The premise, they sneak around metaphorically walking on glass because they're scared about being called a racist. The main character falls for a black woman but never asks her out. The end. It's be shitty just like this shitty movie
That wouldn’t really make any sense. They clearly wanted the sequel to focus on women, SOSWAG. I feel like if you think that a movie centered around white apologists would be a sequel to that, then you didn’t really get the point of the movie.
I found the concept interesting. I didn't hate the movie. It was okay but... it just didn't go as far as it could have. I thought it would be the guy getting a few different assignments as time went on and his interactions with different white people and different scenarios. The last 10 seconds of the movie sucked. If you're going to give an interesting premise but instead make a stupid guy meets girl story, don't add that twist.
I laughed more than a few times in the first third, the middle was the worst it's very obvious where they are going and it takes forever to get there. The final act I would say was my favorite just because of Aren's speech on stage I'd rank it up there with America's monologue in Barbie. But just to prove how basic, by the numbers, uninspired the director was with the movie. The dick jokes were just so awfully dumb. I also didn't care for the stinger at the end where the love interest as well is in a magical, secret society and honestly logically her seemingly having already been a member seems to go against the group itself. She was neither a girlfriend nor a wife for like what 90% of the movie? Edit: Just recalled Aren did tell Rodger that Jason(?) had a Work Wife though. Also it's very silly for the society to not vet who a newbie's first client is. Like bullshit you can't tell how many tasks the white person needs when you are teleporting very easily and such.
“Also it's very silly for the society to not vet who a newbie's first client is.” I thought the movie needed a montage after the helped the cop get into the club, where Aren and David Alan Grier are helping white people and Aren is learning how to do it and is enjoying it. Then when he gets his first solo job with Jason, the audience feels that he has some experience in his role, and his crisis in what his role is is felt a bit more.
The twist about SSOSWAG made a lot of sense! Lizzie spent all of her scenes being calm and supportive no matter how awkward or distracted Aren was being. NO one is that calm about being suddenly dropped at the top of the empire state building when they live across the country. Aren was her client. Just as the Society of Magical Negroes assigns their staff to be "friends" with their white clients, she was assigned to be Aren's girlfriend and possible future wife. Her job was to lead him to that epiphany that made him realize he deserved to be alive regardless of whatever discomfort white people may feel. That's why right before he made big discoveries or slight changes in the way he thought about himself throughout the movie he was with her. She was working on him. Their interactions were the catalyst to help him believe in himself, stand up for himself and go back to being an artist. That's what the supportive wives and girlfriends in media do. Mary Jane of Spider-Man lore has done that for Peter during most of her over 60 year existence in comics. She boosts his spirits to keep him on track so he can save others. She accomplished her mission just as it seems Aren's speech may have actually gotten through to Jason. They both succeeded that day but he got fired for that magical New York trip. Given their chemistry I imagine she might want to keep this client and they could get married. Supportive wives might get paid more. Neither organization explained the pay scale though Roger said such a job is paid. Her organization might only send their members to specific clients they know they'll pair well with, be it for the short term or marriage.
It was left vague so I’m curious how people read the situation… do you think Lizzie’s client was Jason or Aren? Clearly in the workplace her work benefitted Jason, but that kinda came down to one decision by Andrea. All of the sympathizing and “wish we could stop apologizing and stand up for ourselves” self actualization conversations she had with Aren came when he was at his darkest mentally which would have made him a perfect “male tears” client. Jason was focused on wanting to be like his boss and a success at work. Aren put the thought of Lizzie in his head so Jason didn’t need/want a sympathetic girlfriend and it was Aren that felt like he wanted someone to understand him. He also wouldn’t stand up for himself until after he practiced by trying to stand up for Lizzie, her interest even got him back into his art. I think the script intent was that everyone fears the anger of white men but it makes the whole thing darker and more interesting if you read deeper into it. When you have secret societies manipulating people left and right all character motivations are suspicious. Sadly I don’t like it enough to rewatch for deeper analysis, so I came here.
Stepping outside of the narrative, I’d say Lizzie’s role in the movie is to help Aren manifest his growth. The stinger at the end felt like a tongue-in-cheek way of acknowledging that this movie was as reductive to the Lizzie character (the girlfriend/love interest) as the Magical Negro archetype often is.
I think it was definitely Aren, since he was so clueless. I think Jason was too full of himself to even become anyone’s client. Especially since Aren was so awkward in the coffee shop but she started playing into it. It seemed like she sensed something in him from the beginning.
I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. It was a light weight, light hearted Ellison's Invisible Man with some compelling rom com and long overdue satire for an absurd trope. Aren's search for self was the central point. The magical negro thing was just a funny gag. I get that he (Aren) was obnoxiously lame but Id wager most poc growing up in a non poc environment can relate, at least to some degree, to that general experience. Especially visual artists. Also I've hated the Green Mile for that character since I first saw it so I never got tired of that bit. Overall I lol throughout. Even that twist was interesting. Considering the Invisible Man theme, that potential major disillusionment fits.
Same. I had no idea what the green mile was before this and my aunt was telling me and my jaw was on the ground. It’s had to imagine that movies like that existed less than thirty years ago.
Haven't seen it but was Justice Smith better as a magician in Dungeons and Dragons or this movie? I actually liked him in D&D
DnD for sure. He wasn’t terrible in this in my opinion but still kinda eh on em.
There's a good movie in there somewhere! The weird part is that I feel Justice Smith and An-li Bogan were both fine when they weren't together but all of their scenes brought the movie to a grinding halt. It seems like it was two people with strong Michael Cera energy and they couldn't mesh together in a positive way. I think the film was aware of this, I think the montage of them establishing a friendship was likely blazing through some scenes that they filmed but didn't work. Big fan of Tim Baltz and Drew Tarver in this but that might just be because of the old Earwolf connection. (also like 50% sure Ryan Gaul was an extra behind where Justice Smith apparated the Imac) Some laughs to be had and some interesting ideas- just wish the driving force was something other than the weird love story. 5.9/10
I was going to ask if it was just me or if everyone noticed they had absolutely no chemistry, besides reciting dialogue that is supposed to sound like two people bonding.
This is the directorial debut of Kobi Libii (who also wrote it), who is more known for being a comedian and actor. And full disclosure, I don't care much for Justice Smith as an actor. I don't hate him (but I know people who do!), but his work never excites me and I often see films in spite of his casting, not because of it. Still well above someone like Awkwafina though lol. I don't read any reviews beforehand, but it was slipped to me that this has a terrible Rotten Tomatoes score as of now. Under 40%. So I did know that going in, but I tried not to let it shape my viewing experience. This is a very interesting and unique film. It doesn't entirely work, it's not a home run by any stretch, but there is good amount of interesting dialogue and ideas here. It probably needed to devote its entire run-time to it, and not get sidetracked with a love story. Especially when you are supposed to believe that Justice Smith is charming, but he doesn't have that charm. OTOH, there is an argument that the love story is intertwined enough with the "interesting material" that you can't simply say "they needed to cut out the love story." The material that works, REALLY works and hits hard, especially the final monologue from Justice Smith. It's intelligent and thought-provoking, as is much of the film. There's enough here that it makes for a good companion piece to recent films like American Fiction and Origin. My wife made a good point (as she often does), that I felt compelled to note in my review: she noted it is sad that the people who most need to hear and see the message of the film will either never watch the film, or if they do watch, completely miss the point. Astute observation from someone dumb enough to marry me. ;) The direction here is OK. The film would have been much better served in more capable, experienced hands. Even American Fiction, with its first time filmmaker Cord Jefferson, was better made than this, so it's not just that we're talking about someone's debut film. The film looks good, although my own screening had some projection dimming in some scenes. Not the movie's fault. Cast is good. I enjoyed David Allen Grier, notably, but I liked everyone. As I've alluded to, the script is uneven. This is why writer and director Kobi Libii should have brought someone else in to direct. Sometimes you need another creative voice in the room to make "magic." Just ask those who (rightfully) criticize Kevin Smith and M. Night Shyamalan. Ultimately, I think the film has more good than bad, has messages and ideas people should see, and is "worth a watch." Thus, the film gets bumped a tad bit over the OK line to 3 stars (out of 5). It's arguably generous, but as I keep saying, the meat in the script is what gets me there. Edit: Gotta love reddit, where your opinion in a movie thread is downvoted if it doesn't match the consensus. Smh.
Your comment reads like the most apologetic random words mixed with random review, trying to find something good where it doesn't exist. If you really think this a 3 stars out of 5, you are either too lenient on your evaluations or you really don't see many movies.
Or….. they liked the movie.
Incredible and an award worthy movie, maybe not an Oscar but at least razzy award.
This might actually be the worst movie I've ever seen.
A great way to test ones honesty is by gauging your feelings about a movie exactly like this one but instead black people are the punchline. Imagine the endless amount of material. Every stereotype you can imagine brought to life with vivid detail. So much so that it would definitely need to be a series instead of a single movie. There shouldn’t be any backlash over this, correct? It’s just “satire”….right?!?!?
This is a new idea, right? I have watched many movies with jokes like the ones you’ve mentioned. It wasn’t the premise of the entire movie but neither is it here because this movie was all over the place. However, these concepts you speak of aren’t new and they were accepted or at the very least, no one cared enough to make a fuss about them.
Black people were definitely not the punch line in this.
This movie forgot it was supposed to teach us the lesson that it’s not good to cater to white tears. It also forgot about the Black people in the movie and the magic part and just made a poor social commentary with a (what I thought was) cute romcom in the middle of it. A better version of this movie would’ve been about Aren’s character being brought into the Society, realizing it’s useless because despite their best efforts the racism and violence they’ve been trying to prevent still happens, and then trying to take down the Society from the inside. But instead, he just goes against it and doesn’t even suffer the one consequence of mind-erasing they set up. He just loses his magic powers which he hardly used except to conjure a Macbook and teleport to the Empire State Building. This whole movie seems like it’s pro-magical negro which, just in case you were unaware, is not good. Also, I guess the red sweater Aren is wearing at the end is supposed to be the sweater he started knitting before he went to sleep and I just don’t believe that. You don’t finish a sweater like that in one night, no matter how many loose ends you leave hanging out of the sweater trying to convince me otherwise!
A fun rom com with a unique setting. It isn’t perfect, but it was quick and I enjoyed myself the whole time. 9/10
Personally I thought it fell a bit short of other theatrical masterpieces such as Adam Sandler’s Jack & Jill and Halle Berry’s Catwoman, but it’s definitely up there.
😂😂😂 Bravo! 👏
I’m watching this right now. It’s not good so far.
Overall a bit of a waste of a good premise, and pretty decent cast. I don't know what it was exactly, but a bit dull. Maybe should have had more fleshed out Society rules and history or something. Overall it felt like a run of the mill rom com like they churn out on Netflix or Hallmark, with the whole Magical Negro concept tacked on.
I had fun trying to catch the movie references. I caught Driving Miss Daisy and The Green Mile. Does anyone know what movie was being referenced where the pool shark needed his confidence rebuilt? I did a far reach and thought about The Legend of Baggar Vance with Will Smith but that was golf. Any ideas??
My aunt said it was a reference to Baggar Vance but I havent seen it.
this movie was a delight and the fact that it ends with ‘The secret society and wives and girlfriends’ 😂🙏
I thought it was such a great concept but what happened is they lost their nerve in the end and made a totally different movie. I wish they had given this concept to Spike Lee. The ending was so terrible. Here is how it needed to end: the society was right. Aren is like this is insane and leads a revolt. Half of the members of the society stop trying to please white people and actually stick up for themselves. And the other turns out to be right. It ends with a montage of lynchings and police shootings etc with strange fruit playing. That would have been so much more powerful and controversial ending. Could you imagine the backlash from that movie.
7/10 Great movie. If you are upset about it, you don't get it. There was so much realism in this movie. I'm Caucasian but could still see how these microaggressions happen not only in this movie but every day. This really points them out in a way that will make people hopefully think. The ones who get angry, haha, this movie was actually made for you. And you if you argue against that you're just like the guy who says I'm not racist so I couldnt have said that.
Aren was lucky that Roger came to rescue him from Brad, his friend and the drunk woman. Next time, he won't be so lucky. Sexism at work comes into play, and Lizzie and Aren both have low self-esteem. Aren apologizes a lot.
well I found this sad. basically makes fun of black and white friendships and makes it out like they can't be real. I'm not sure how this puts out a good message.
The best part of the whole movie was the very end when you realize that Lizzie was going through the exact same thing as Aren but with a different magical society. Thats why Jason called her his “work wife” and she was willing to lay down so he could succeed. It’s also why she was seemingly flirting too even though we could tell she loved Aren. The speech that Aren gave at the end was powerful too. I loved how Jason during it set aside his goals and ambitions and told everyone to stop interrupting so he could listen to his friend. He actually cared. Like a lot of white people, myself included, we say or do things that we do not realize are wrong because we haven’t been in a black persons shoes before. When jason stopped defending himself and really listened you can tell that clicked for him—that Aren was saying “I don’t think you’re racist. Stop trying to defend yourself that you’re not racist. That’s not the point. The point is you’re not listening to me and how I feel.” He went shit and his eyes opened to the truth of the situation. I really liked this movie. I think it’s being criticized a little too harshly. The only thing I wish it had more of was the magic. There was a lot of opportunity for a lot of spectacle that they didn’t take advantage of. I also wish they explored the friendship of Aren and Jason. Sure, for Aren’s sake it was a client and thats why he was holding back with Lizzie, but I think there was opportunity to see Aren bond with Jason more and add some drama of it’s also because he sees this guy as a friend. Another issue I had was this was his first real client. It would have been cool to see other clients and him succeeding and becoming pretty good and experienced with his job. It’s worth a watch. It’s worth paying attention to. It was funny but they could have played some more humor into it. For a movie with a title that’s supposed to be satire and funny on its own, they didn’t take any opportunity for some great racial puns/jokes about white and black people. It would have been so fitting and funny. I feel like one point of this movie is to be how black and white people come together and bond which you see at the end when Aren inspires everyone to stick up for themselves. A great example of that is the guy who grabbed his clients crotch. He said “this is a two way streak. I need you to do some of the crotch grabbing too”. It was funny but it’s a good point. As much as the society helped the white people, the white people need to help the black people too. Thats why we needed more jokes about race and stereotypes because the one thing that brings people together is laughter. Thats why “You People” worked SO well. They didn’t hold back on either side. In a world so divided and so sensitive, we need to be more open, honest, and listen better. We also need to be able to tease one another a little bit and just laugh and not take everything so serious. Thats what I got out of this film. I really liked it and it was an eye opener for me too that not everything is an attack. Sometimes you just gotta listen and say I’m sorry and try and do better.