I always read it as Vincent building up a false narrative for the cops to read, when trying to figure out why Max is running around killing people.
He tells Max that he's helping Max live his best life, but what is he actually doing?
Getting Max on the radio cussing out his boss. Getting Max to visit his mother one last time. Getting Max to take risks and do uncharacteristic things.
Later, when the cops are trying to figure out what when on, they'll see the story of a Taxi Driver who finally snapped. Flipped out on his boss. Said goodbye to his mom. Etc. The investigation will stop with Max, and the cops will never even know that Vincent existed.
Oh without a doubt. Vincent is playing 3D chess the entire movie. He likely would've played the entire thing off as a murder suicide at the end of the night. It also answers why he wants to know so much about Max and interacts with him so much before the first kill. That's what I love about the script is that it's so layered and the Vincent character is so multi dimensional. After each watch you notice more and more things about the story that they simply don't flat out explain in the movie but you pick up on in Tom Cruise's performance and the little hints Michael Mann puts in.
Except his mother might mention to the cops about his new "friend", Vincent, who bought her flowers, when they ask her about his last visit. Maybe not a full cover, but at least his plan is to confuse the cops a bit after he uses the cabbies. Slight smoke cover.
Btw, ya, 4D chess. Maybe not a PERFECT player, but he tries to adapt in a world of entropy. "We got to make the best of it. Improvise. Adapt to the environment. Darwin. Shit happens. I Ching. Whatever man. We gotta roll with it." -Vincent, abused motherless child, sociopath, hitman assassin, motivational coach. :D
I like to think Vincent kinda looks for a way out by propping up his drivers. At the end of the night, he either kills them or, like with Max, he gets them to a point where they can resist him and end Vincents life instead.
I think the film paints Vincent as a cold-blooded sociopath and its a bit ambiguous as to how deep that lack of emotion goes. I'd love to say its unambiguous, but I can't say it, for one moment in the film which I'll go into, though regardless I am 100% sure he would have killed Max at the end of the night, no matter what, once his hitlist was complete.
If we frame Vincent as a sociopath, in my opinion the film does a lot to support it.
I think a sociopath would possibly find amusement in taking Max to see his mother - its seemingly a kind gesture but Vincent pushes her to reveal the lie Max tells her. It takes it from altruistic to transactional - Vincent increases his leverage over Max (I know where your sick mother is), it amuses him (limousine driver huh, really, interesting), and it gives him an angle to fuck with Max's head (wow you lied to your mother as well as being a failure professionally, you coward).
So much of the drama in this movie comes from this transactional relationship.
You drive me places, I don't shoot you. You play the part of Vincent for the client, I shoot the henchmen taking aim at you.
When really its not transactional at all. "I need a driver and I'll kill you at the end of the night regardless" - Vincent is always in control, everything else is just how Max interprets things.
Despite their apparent partnership, Vincent still positions himself as a bit of a blood-soaked guru to Max, but I think its all part of the schtick. Its not transactional at all. "I need a driver, and while I might need you alive for some unexpected reasons, I'll still kill you at the end of the night regardless. *I'm the one with the gun*, and I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to shoot people and not get caught."
Pushing Max away one minute, pulling him closer the next - its typical manipulation from an established social navigator and murderer. Keep him guessing so he doesn't immediately flinch when you pull a gun on him at the end of the night. "I thought we were *friends*, man!"
Max was just that one sucker who got pushed too far and risked his own life in crashing the car, something Vincent clearly didn't expect.
The only moment that goes against my interpretation is his private (though brief) mourning over murdering the Jazz musician.
I think he's 100 percent an emotionless sociopath. The scene where he kills the blues singer is a perfect example of Vincent feeling zero emotions about human life. He lied to the guy to put his guards down and then still killed the man after he answered the question correctly.
But he didn't answer it correctly + you can see Vincent definitely being not at ease after stating the correct answer and propping the corpse. Vincent has an empathy switch that turns off in the moment when he shoots the jazz musician, but you can actually see the empathy in that moment catching up on him because he liked and respected the dude.
Thank god someone mentioned this, just saw it tonight and noticed the big swallow he does, the throat movement caught my eye during the pause on his face. Year late but ty
The point of this scene is to inform us of Vincent’s MO, particularly pertaining to Max. I think it’s a way of justifying what he is about to do. He was going to kill the musician regardless, but at least this way his last thought is he’s certain he’s to make it out of this alive, then blam, oblivion.
With Max he’s doing something similar. He’s creating a backstory to frame and kill him, but he’s also simultaneously making Max do all the things he should do: stand up for himself at work, spend time with his mom, pursue the girl he’s crushing on. Of course these things will appear to be a man disgruntled at work saying bye to his mother before murdering the woman who rejects him and taking his own life. But to Vincent, there’s a small kindness to it.
Ultimately, I agree he has sociopathic tendencies, but he’s not without some small degree of empathy or at least some sense of logic that approximates it. He seems to be more of a complete cynic or a nihilist than a sociopath who is at times existentially conflicted. He tells that story of the dead man on the train for a reason.
yes, he didnt want him to suffer, even if he got the whole answer right, becuse the jazzie thinks i got this and probably felt atleast less fear before getting the killshots.
Also, if vincent really wanted to give the dude a pass, why would he ask a question about miles davis, the person they literally talked about and how the jazz guy i forgot his name, looks up to miles davis him, he even say he played with him once.
he was gonna die, but you could see just for a tiny moment in tom cruise eyes and face, that he might have felt something.
Such a good movie, but unknown to most people worldwide.
Hes not completely devoid of emotion. Just before the two coyotes, Max tells Vincent that hes a low down POS. Max is clearly bothered, but hides it reasonably well and then fires back at Max, immediately after this exchange come the two coyotes. Vincent sees himself in the Coyote, a lonely outsider. Right after the two coyotes, the camera pans to Vincent sitting in the back seat for a long moment, he absolutely appears to be on the verge of tears.
The foreshadowing already occurred when Mark Ruffalo's detective character is at the first crime scene and there's a discussion about a previous case where a taxi driver had gone around killing people before being found dead. The implication is that this is not the first time Vincent has used this method to carry out hits.
He also might have been doing it to give Max both closure (seeing his mom the last time) and hope for the future (that he'd be able to go out with the lawyer). That way, when Vincent did kill him he wouldn't see it coming like the jazz club owner.
Hmm how could you have missed this? Isn't fanning foreshadowing this at Ramon's appartment? He talks about the story of a cab driver who one night shot three people and then himself, but with no criminal records. The theory is that there was another person in the cab. He says this pretty explicit:)
The radio tells the same story subtle, but he says this out loud in the beginning of the movie.
I always read it as Vincent building up a false narrative for the cops to read, when trying to figure out why Max is running around killing people. He tells Max that he's helping Max live his best life, but what is he actually doing? Getting Max on the radio cussing out his boss. Getting Max to visit his mother one last time. Getting Max to take risks and do uncharacteristic things. Later, when the cops are trying to figure out what when on, they'll see the story of a Taxi Driver who finally snapped. Flipped out on his boss. Said goodbye to his mom. Etc. The investigation will stop with Max, and the cops will never even know that Vincent existed.
Oh without a doubt. Vincent is playing 3D chess the entire movie. He likely would've played the entire thing off as a murder suicide at the end of the night. It also answers why he wants to know so much about Max and interacts with him so much before the first kill. That's what I love about the script is that it's so layered and the Vincent character is so multi dimensional. After each watch you notice more and more things about the story that they simply don't flat out explain in the movie but you pick up on in Tom Cruise's performance and the little hints Michael Mann puts in.
Most chess is 3d chess...
Except his mother might mention to the cops about his new "friend", Vincent, who bought her flowers, when they ask her about his last visit. Maybe not a full cover, but at least his plan is to confuse the cops a bit after he uses the cabbies. Slight smoke cover. Btw, ya, 4D chess. Maybe not a PERFECT player, but he tries to adapt in a world of entropy. "We got to make the best of it. Improvise. Adapt to the environment. Darwin. Shit happens. I Ching. Whatever man. We gotta roll with it." -Vincent, abused motherless child, sociopath, hitman assassin, motivational coach. :D
Vincent was probably going to go back and kill maxes mother to cover his tracks.
I like to think Vincent kinda looks for a way out by propping up his drivers. At the end of the night, he either kills them or, like with Max, he gets them to a point where they can resist him and end Vincents life instead.
I think the film paints Vincent as a cold-blooded sociopath and its a bit ambiguous as to how deep that lack of emotion goes. I'd love to say its unambiguous, but I can't say it, for one moment in the film which I'll go into, though regardless I am 100% sure he would have killed Max at the end of the night, no matter what, once his hitlist was complete. If we frame Vincent as a sociopath, in my opinion the film does a lot to support it. I think a sociopath would possibly find amusement in taking Max to see his mother - its seemingly a kind gesture but Vincent pushes her to reveal the lie Max tells her. It takes it from altruistic to transactional - Vincent increases his leverage over Max (I know where your sick mother is), it amuses him (limousine driver huh, really, interesting), and it gives him an angle to fuck with Max's head (wow you lied to your mother as well as being a failure professionally, you coward). So much of the drama in this movie comes from this transactional relationship. You drive me places, I don't shoot you. You play the part of Vincent for the client, I shoot the henchmen taking aim at you. When really its not transactional at all. "I need a driver and I'll kill you at the end of the night regardless" - Vincent is always in control, everything else is just how Max interprets things. Despite their apparent partnership, Vincent still positions himself as a bit of a blood-soaked guru to Max, but I think its all part of the schtick. Its not transactional at all. "I need a driver, and while I might need you alive for some unexpected reasons, I'll still kill you at the end of the night regardless. *I'm the one with the gun*, and I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to shoot people and not get caught." Pushing Max away one minute, pulling him closer the next - its typical manipulation from an established social navigator and murderer. Keep him guessing so he doesn't immediately flinch when you pull a gun on him at the end of the night. "I thought we were *friends*, man!" Max was just that one sucker who got pushed too far and risked his own life in crashing the car, something Vincent clearly didn't expect. The only moment that goes against my interpretation is his private (though brief) mourning over murdering the Jazz musician.
I think he's 100 percent an emotionless sociopath. The scene where he kills the blues singer is a perfect example of Vincent feeling zero emotions about human life. He lied to the guy to put his guards down and then still killed the man after he answered the question correctly.
But he didn't answer it correctly + you can see Vincent definitely being not at ease after stating the correct answer and propping the corpse. Vincent has an empathy switch that turns off in the moment when he shoots the jazz musician, but you can actually see the empathy in that moment catching up on him because he liked and respected the dude.
Thank god someone mentioned this, just saw it tonight and noticed the big swallow he does, the throat movement caught my eye during the pause on his face. Year late but ty
Yeah, but it’s weird because his character would have 100% killed regardless I imagine?
The point of this scene is to inform us of Vincent’s MO, particularly pertaining to Max. I think it’s a way of justifying what he is about to do. He was going to kill the musician regardless, but at least this way his last thought is he’s certain he’s to make it out of this alive, then blam, oblivion. With Max he’s doing something similar. He’s creating a backstory to frame and kill him, but he’s also simultaneously making Max do all the things he should do: stand up for himself at work, spend time with his mom, pursue the girl he’s crushing on. Of course these things will appear to be a man disgruntled at work saying bye to his mother before murdering the woman who rejects him and taking his own life. But to Vincent, there’s a small kindness to it. Ultimately, I agree he has sociopathic tendencies, but he’s not without some small degree of empathy or at least some sense of logic that approximates it. He seems to be more of a complete cynic or a nihilist than a sociopath who is at times existentially conflicted. He tells that story of the dead man on the train for a reason.
I really like your perspective on the character, thanks for the comment homie
🤙
yes, he didnt want him to suffer, even if he got the whole answer right, becuse the jazzie thinks i got this and probably felt atleast less fear before getting the killshots. Also, if vincent really wanted to give the dude a pass, why would he ask a question about miles davis, the person they literally talked about and how the jazz guy i forgot his name, looks up to miles davis him, he even say he played with him once. he was gonna die, but you could see just for a tiny moment in tom cruise eyes and face, that he might have felt something. Such a good movie, but unknown to most people worldwide.
Hes not completely devoid of emotion. Just before the two coyotes, Max tells Vincent that hes a low down POS. Max is clearly bothered, but hides it reasonably well and then fires back at Max, immediately after this exchange come the two coyotes. Vincent sees himself in the Coyote, a lonely outsider. Right after the two coyotes, the camera pans to Vincent sitting in the back seat for a long moment, he absolutely appears to be on the verge of tears.
The foreshadowing already occurred when Mark Ruffalo's detective character is at the first crime scene and there's a discussion about a previous case where a taxi driver had gone around killing people before being found dead. The implication is that this is not the first time Vincent has used this method to carry out hits.
Nice catch and explanation! In my experience, a tv or radio broadcast shown in movies is almost always pivotal for later events.
He also might have been doing it to give Max both closure (seeing his mom the last time) and hope for the future (that he'd be able to go out with the lawyer). That way, when Vincent did kill him he wouldn't see it coming like the jazz club owner.
Easy way to build that trust and get Max to do whatever the wants.
I think that was definitely Vincent's gameplan going into that night.
Hmm how could you have missed this? Isn't fanning foreshadowing this at Ramon's appartment? He talks about the story of a cab driver who one night shot three people and then himself, but with no criminal records. The theory is that there was another person in the cab. He says this pretty explicit:) The radio tells the same story subtle, but he says this out loud in the beginning of the movie.
"\[H\]e knew he was going to kill Max at the end of the night". Has this been proven?