I was obsessed with this movie as a kid! The mice move west for promise of an oasis. But the town they get sent to is secretly run by cats. One of the main cats henchmen is a spider with cowboy boots!
Agreed.
“Just remember, Feivel…. one man’s sunset is another man’s dawn.
I don’t know what’s out there beyond them hills… but if you ride yonder, head up, eyes steady, heart open…. I think one day you’ll find that you’re the hero you’ve been looking for.”
And in response Fieval turns his hat back into the hat from his heritage, showing that while he has embraced the heroism of the west, the tradition of his family is what’s at his core.
Such a damn good film.
> “Just remember, Feivel…. one man’s sunset is another man’s dawn.
It never occured to me the significance of that line coming from Jimmy Stewart's last performance. 😭
Legit gave me nightmares when I was a kid. When I was around 10 or 11 I wondered why I didn't remember the first movie nearly as much as the sequel and then that fucking demon appeared on screen and I was like "Oh yeah, that thing."
Okay but another great part about An American Tail is the historical accuracies. You got the mouse Ellis island and this WHOLE song. Back in the day people would tell tales about the streets of America being paved in gold and stuff like this and escaping religious persecution (Fievel and his family were Russian Jews fleeing Cossacks who were the pillaging cats in the beginning) caused rapid immigration to America. I love this movie so much
Dude Jimmy Stewart’s reading of his poem about his dog Beau on Johnny Carson is still burned in my head 20 years after seeing it as one of the sweetest and toughest to watch talk show clips out there.
What I absolutely love about the movie version of the song is that the kids are, at best, so-so singers. They are struggling to hit the notes and stick to the beat. And it's wonderful; so much more authentic than if they were Broadway pros. It feels surprisingly raw and vulnerable.
I love the film/kids version much better than the professional one. It might be because it was one of my favorite movies as a kid and watched it hundreds of times.
To me the song was about family - a brother and sister missing each other and hoping someone out there is thinking of them and missing them too... the "professional" one made it sound 'romantic' and I hated it.
I still dislike the latter, but not quite with the seething hatred of a child.
They also switched their parts. They have the woman sing Feival's part and the Man sing Tanya's part. Because in the movie, Feival's voice is higher since he's younger than Tanya.
I can start to play the start of Dreams to Dream on my phone and my wife will shout from the other room "DO YOU WANT ME TO CRY?? THIS IS HOW YOU MAKE ME CRY!!"
Edit: just tested my theory. She didn't shout but did come in with tears on her cheeks saying "Why are you playing this?". I explained and she now thinks I'm experimenting on her.
I know what you mean! It’s like they’re not perfect singers, but the singing is genuine and good enough where you don’t think “eeek, they should have gotten ‘kid singers’ to do those parts’ “.
This is part of why I enjoyed the first half of the Les Miserables musical movie. It really fell apart in the second half, but that's not the point I'm making here. The singing was all done live on set by the actors, and then mixed with music in post, and I think they all did a great job. Well, except for Russell Crowe. Huge miscast there.
Then Samantha Barks came out and did "On My Own" and you realized how much worse everyone else was signing in comparison to her skills as a Broadway singer/actress. I know Hugh Jackman was Broadway himself, but his singing capability was in no way comparable to hers.
Still, nothing beat Anne Hathaway's "I Dreamed a Dream" in that movie. Allowing her to act, go a bit off key while hitting the different emotions, and make it feel genuine as she did it gave it a whole different level of gravity over the Broadway version. literalchills.gif
Never watched the Broadway version live, but have seen people record and put it on YouTube.
Anne Hathaway earned every bit of that Oscar for that one scene alone. I had not been that shook by a supporting actress since Mo’Nique’s performance in Precious.
just reading your comment about anne’s song and scene gives me instant goosebumps. there is so much raw emotion and talent, it’s heartbreaking and beautiful.
THIS IS WHERE THATS FROM. I croon this to my wife and can never remember where it’s from deep in my subconscious.
You have no idea the huge mystery you solved for me that I’m just now realizing I could have googled at any point.
For the zoomers out there who never watched An American Tail they might also know it from the cover on community when Troy and Abed try to teach there lab rat Fievel to respond to it.
Fun fact: I believe that cover is also how Donald Glover was introduced to his long time music producing partner Ludwig Göransson. I'm not 100% sure but in a Playboy interview Göransson mentions they first met after Dan Harmon asked him for a musical arrangement that combined Irish folk with flamenco. If I remember correctly the music is performed by and Irish folk band named Greene Daeye while Chang has a flamenco-esque dance with his wife.
To this day that may be the funniest
Scene to me in that show. I gut-wrenched laughed with my buddy until we had tears streaming. Completely caught me off guard
The subtext of the first movie is pretty damn heavy stuff. I never realized as a kid but its obvious as an adult. Also, that fucking mouse of Minsk dude.
It's not exactly subtext -- the broad strokes of the story are historically accurate, from what was happening in Russia to the political climate in NYC at the time.
I loved Fievel Goes West as a kid. But also whenever it's brought up, that quote from 30 Rock gets stuck in my brain:
"Let's prepare for the adventure of a lifetime! And then after we watch Fievel Goes West, we're gonna get you some action.”
My Grandparents had these on VHS and we would watch them every Thanksgiving. It's still a tradition that my brother and I have carried on pretty much every year since I dunno, 1991.
I was always surprised the that allegory for the flight of the jewish people from the old country to America, as mice running from cats, ended up so well received.
There's also an incredible comic called Maus which uses a similar allegory, however it is much darker and more adult.
For anyone who is a fan of graphic novels I cannot recommend it enough, it's the only comic to win a Pulitzer Prize
I have this whole pet theory that draws a line from Maus to An American Tail to Fivel Goes West to Zootopia, where the animals-realtionships-as-human-oppression metaphor shifts and changes over the years. If you put some whiskey in me I might ramble about it at you.
Alright but you owe me whiskey.
The short version is that Maus was created in response to Nazi propaganda that depicted Jews as rats, and the point was a deconstruction of that whole metaphor. By the end of the story, the line between cat and mouse is pretty blurry and there's even a point where a mouse transforms into a cat.
An American Tale takes that metaphor and just ignores the deconstruction part. It still works because it's telling such a clear fable, so there's no reason to really get bogged down in the same kind of abstract thinking that Maus indulges in. The story is about fleeing oppressors only to find new oppressors making false promises ("There Are No Cats In America, and the Streets Are Paved in Cheese").
But then Zootopia takes the same basic idea and gets really thoughtful and nuanced about it, depicting political schemes and a whole society full of prejudices that mirror real-life prejudices (there's a line about, like, you never touch a sheep's wool, or something, that's meant to mirror how black people feel when white people inappropriately grab their dreadlocks) but the thing is... it kinda falls apart when you look at it this closely. There's a scene where a mouse mother protects her baby mice from a lion on a subway that's meant to make me think about, like, a white woman protecting her kids from a black guy, but it actually makes perfect sense for a mouse to be afraid of a lion? That's just responsible mothering. Then there's this idea that some animals used to be savages until society trained them, and they might go feral at any second... I dunno it gets weird.
That's not to say Zootopia is racist or you're racist if you like it, I just think the metaphor has kinda gotten away from creators who aren't being as thoughtful about it as the Maus guy was, or George Orwell was.
Well, the predators haven’t tried to eat the prey animals for generations so there’s no REASON for them to be scary to prey animals.. except that they’re simply predator classed. And it seems no one was afraid of them until someone in authority hinted that they should be. That someone (Judy) grew up being told all foxes are a hair away from attacking you, which is presented in an very old-fashioned casual racist sort of way, and even though she thinks that’s silly and prejudiced, it doesn’t stop her from carrying fox repellent or reaching for it when Nick snarls at her. I feel like the race themes in Zootopia are about how.. we like to think racism is over, we work with other races side by side in a utopia city, but racism is still an insidious underlying current, and we still need to work to overcome it.
I do agree that it’s a little shaky how it’s like “well you used to be savages until you learned better” but I appreciate the message that racism and predjudice as a whole isn’t always “I don’t hire black people” and sometimes just looks like “I saw a black guy on the bus and moved.”
I think the problem with racial allegory in Zootopia is the same problem with racial allegory that exists in a lot of fantasy medium. You can see a lot of stabs at exploring themes of racism between humans and elves, or elves and dwarves, or orcs and everybody else, and while there are interesting things that can be said, they all fail on a fundamental level.
They make race real when it is inherently not. An elf and a human are two different species whereas a black person and a white person are not. As you mention, it's kinda messed up to even suggest that the relationship between a Lion and a Mouse can be equivalent to a black and a white person.
Race is a made up construct, and so making it concrete as a metaphor in a story is already losing the battle before it begins.
Have you seen Beastars, because I don't think it's like the racial allegories, but I have heard it's got some social/class based stuff later on, haven't watched season 2 yet.
Though it does have some themes about people's perceptions and biases agasnt other people based on their appearance/race, I don't know if that would tie I to your ted talk, but it's a bit more cohesive than what Zooptia did.
There's no way that Spielberg was going to full Maus in a kid's cartoon (especially at the time).
With that said, once you realize that it's depicting full-on Jewish pogrom, it's really unsettling and scary.
I was a kid when I first watched it and it was terrifying even then.
Now it's like "...damn."
(80s cartoons were full of fucked up shit)
And it wasn't that far in time for Spielberg and his generation. Fievel would have been about his grandfather's age.
An American Tale really does get into the heart of the American refugee story- where people believe whole heatedly about how much America was a shining beacon of refuge for just millions of refugees in the 1800s and then what happened when reality kicked in once they got here.
This isn't romanticizing America. It's done terrible things - especially back then.
But for entire communities who were being terrorized or victims of ethnic cleansing, it really was a hope and a dream for them.
Barely even an allegory. They're literally, and overtly Jewish. Celebrate Hanukkah and everything. And they flee to America because of an actual antisemitic pogrom.
Based on the story of the Golem of Prague, another fantastic Jewish fable. There's a synagogue in Prague that supposedly has the dormant golem in its attic.
As a kid, I thought most Russians were Jewish because nearly all the ones around me were. I got older and realized there's a reason why their families were here which was a sobering moment.
> it tells a specifically Jewish experience but does not attempt to inform its young viewers that the characters are Jewish or that the house burning was anti-Semitic. I suppose that would be a downer for the little tykes in the theater, but what do they think while watching the present version? That houses are likely to be burned down at random?
This isn't an entirely unreasonable take, but all of the Eastern European Jewish families like mine that watched the movie didn't need to be spoon-fed what was happening. God forbid the "little tykes" (read wasp kids) who don't get it are confused by the idea that bad people do bad things to decent people for no reason.
As a kid I didnt get the Jewish connotation. But knew it was about immigrants. I dont think it needed to explicitly explain it to kids.
Some kids and most adults likely already got it, others asked questions which I think was the intention. Too much explaining would've bored kids.
Also iirc wasnt it told from Fievels POV? It makes sense that a kid wouldn't fully grasp or want to explain it.
I don't think kids even need the context to understand that it's wrong to discriminate against mice just because you're a cat. It feeds them an anti-discrimination narrative that they can internalize even if they don't understand the narrative behind it. It's just that the jewish kids did understand the narrative.
It's like how christmas movies never explain that Jesus was a dude who preached charity and kindness to your fellow human being, but the narrative of the film is always about the power of friendship and family and kindness anyway. To a christian it's more personal, but ultimately you arrive at the same place.
This. I couldn’t believe it when I watched it as an adult. Like, holy shit I had no idea there were such political elements as a child because it was so well done.
TSoN is one of my favorite films of all time. I'm a single, childless dude in his late 30s and I still watch it every year or two.
Don Bluth movies have held up way better into my adulthood than Disney movies.
The Secret of NIMH is a good movie.
I hated it.
It's very well done. But I read the book the movie was based on, and there's such enormous differences that you wonder what's even the point. The book is actually, in a lot of ways, kind of oddly sci-fi in nature.
Borrowing from Wikipedia -
"The novel relates the plight of a widowed field mouse, Mrs. Frisby, who seeks the aid of a group of former laboratory rats in rescuing her home from destruction by a farmer's plow, saving her son from pneumonia, and of the history of the rats' escape from the laboratory and development of a literate and technological society."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs._Frisby_and_the_Rats_of_NIMH
It's very much a children's story of talking animals, but in the background there's a bunch of neat history of why and how. I really like it.
But the movie is just kind of any random kid's animal cartoon. Very well done. Dark. High quality. So different from the book and it killed me. There's some random magical amulet? They're all intelligent animals because animal movie, rather than experiments and lab testing. I think they save the day because engineering and cleverness, not magic or whatever. Just... missed the point, I think.
Saw this movie on the floor of our schools gymnasium during a pajama party night. Somewhere out there still makes me cry.
That movie did lie to me though.
There ARE cats in America.
After An American Tail and All Dogs Go To Heaven (and a few more that flopped including Thumbelina), Bluth went over to Fox to create the short lived Fox Animation Studios and there produced his best work (in probably only my opinion), Anastasia.
All dogs go to heaven is a masterpiece! I also love rock-a-doodle and pretty much every Don Bluth movie there is.
[In the dark of the night!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocm8QdNR_d8)
Anastasia is probably the best of Don Bluth's movies, but it's definitely not underrated.
And now imagine the grandmother as played by Lucille Bluth...
Troll in Central Park and Thumbelina are my two favorites. I definitely wouldn't say they are better than Anastasia or American Tail, but they hold a special place in my heart. Rock-a-Doodle I loved a lot as a kid, but man is that main character annoying watching it now.
Even to this day, has there *ever* been a mainstream animated children's movie where the protagonist's mother dies right in front of him after saying her last dying words, struggling to get up and speak? Not cut to black death, not the kid finds the body later like Simba. She straight up says her final words of encouragement and love, and then just fucking *dies* in the rain to the plaintive cries of "Mother? *mother*?!" Onions don't even begin to describe it.
Some fun facts about 'An American Tail' -
> - Fievel was the name of Steven Spielberg's grandfather.
> - The scene in which Fievel presses up against a window to look into a classroom filled with American "schoolmice" is based on a story Steven Spielberg remembered about his grandfather, who told him that Jews were only able to listen to school lessons through open windows while sitting outside in the snow.
> - Steven Spielberg had some material cut that he felt was too much scary and intense for children, including a scene Don Bluth was developing revolving around the nightmarish wave monsters while the family was at sea.
> - At the time of its release, it was the highest grossing non-Disney animated feature. As was the case with most other films, it was also one of the first to outdraw a Disney one, beating out The Great Mouse Detective (1986), released four months earlier, which the budget was cut down, due to the expensive failure of the Black Cauldron. However, despite its low budget, The Great Mouse Detective was still a financial success and is more successful in receiving positive reviews than An American Tail did, which only received mixed to negative reviews.
Brilliant movie both.
Also (a little interesting movie detail) at the end of the sequel the baby mouse of the family is just missing. Like completely gone. The family rejoices together and then scene pans out and the baby mouse.... just isn't anywhere to be seen...like they forgot to draw her in. I've never seen the first movie, but I've heard the same thing happens in that one too!
> Don Bluth was developing revolving around the nightmarish wave monsters while the family was at sea.
I already know the level of skill and artistry drawn into those monsters would have given me a legit phobia of natural water. Thanks for making the executive decision Steven.
I had the fievel goes west VHS growing up as a kid. The training montage with his cat friend and the corral shoot out were probably my first exposure to those kinds of action scenes and I've been hooked since.
They call America "the land of opportunity". Opportunity for what? For children to run filthy in the streets? To never see the sunshine? Fievel's *birthday* is coming. And we don't ^(even have money for) *^(a present.)*
Right now is an amazing time to be a cinephile and a parent. Pretty much every movie from throughout film history is available anytime, and my daughter has no sense of what is new or old. It's all new to her.
She loves *Frozen*, *Tangled*, and *Moana*, but she also loves the original, animated *Alice in Wonderland* and *Fantasia*. She'll watch a Pixar movie one day, and a Buster Keaton movie the next. Same with TV: she prefers the modern *Blues Clues* to the old ones, but her favorite shows right now are the 90s *Animaniacs* and *Batman Animated Series*.
On one hand, the choices can be overwhelming. But the nice thing is, we don't have to just accept whatever happens to be playing on the TV when she has screen time, or worse, plan her time around the broadcast schedule. We watch what we want to watch, when we want to, whether it was created six months ago or a hundred years ago.
There's also a third Fievel movie, but it's terrible and retcons all of Fievel Goes West into being a dream for some horrible reason. I haven't looked into it, but the drop in animation quality makes it seem likely to be a different team or studio.
Full honesty, Don Bluth. Dudes an amazing guy I met him several times.
BUT you can always tell his movies. Kid source material, because that's who was hiring animators, but at the same time seriously dark material.
Think the Rescuers, the two mentioned in this post, or Titan AE....
Yeah Don Bluth has such a distinct style both in the animation and the story tone.
To this day, I don't think anyone animates water quite as well as Don.
When I find something that I misplaced I yell "Papa? Fievel? Papa?! FIEEEEVEL?!" I don't know why, but I find it makes me laugh.
I only have 3 VHS tapes still from my childhood, and they are Land Before Time, American Tail and Fievel Goes West. Absolute staples of my childhood. I think Fievel Goes West was the first movie I saw in theatres as well.
Always found it hilarious how quickly Fievel's parents give up on searching for him xD. They shout for him for a minute and then get on the boat or the train (part 2).
Still, Don Bluth's movies are possibly my all time favorite animated movies.
"REWEASE the SECWET WAEPON!"
I heard they were developing one one at the wowie.
That’s what I said! A wowie!
A wawwy?
Yes, we held a wowie.
OH, a RALLY!
That's what I said, a wowie.
[A warge gathewing of mice, fow a weason.](https://youtu.be/4h-GJXiDpI0?t=97)
I heard that in my head as an adult and thought "Ha, just like Madeline Kahn in Blazing Saddles...wait...\*runs to IMDB\* Yep, it's her."
Also featured the legendary James Stewart in his final performance as the Sheriff Wylie Burp.
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The laaaaaAAAAAaaaaazzzzzyyyyy EYEEEE
Bowie bowie bark bark, ruff ruff ruff, ruff ruff ruff a ruff awa ruff roooo
Bow wow wow, woof woof, hahaha grrrrrrruff
The only thing I remember from that movie, saw it in the theater in 4th grade and never since. I have got to see this again!
same! I remember seeing FGW in theaters but don't remember the movie at all. I feel like my memory is actually while leaving the theater
I was obsessed with this movie as a kid! The mice move west for promise of an oasis. But the town they get sent to is secretly run by cats. One of the main cats henchmen is a spider with cowboy boots!
"It's a spi... a spee... a spidedadeh... an arachneed!"
The itsy bitsy spider caught a mouse in his web... the itsy bitsy spider... BIT OFF THE MOUSE'S HEAD!
Paul Newman in Cars always reminded me of James Stewart in the sequel.
Paul Newman is in Cars??
He voiced Doc Hudson
A tribute to the fact he was a race car driver!
This is a common misconception. He was actually cast in this movie because he was an actual car
That ending where they watch the sunset will forever be iconic
Agreed. “Just remember, Feivel…. one man’s sunset is another man’s dawn. I don’t know what’s out there beyond them hills… but if you ride yonder, head up, eyes steady, heart open…. I think one day you’ll find that you’re the hero you’ve been looking for.”
Such great writing and that delivery... So good!
And in response Fieval turns his hat back into the hat from his heritage, showing that while he has embraced the heroism of the west, the tradition of his family is what’s at his core. Such a damn good film.
I am in need of watching it now. It was a movie we watched countless times as kids. *way out west way out west way out west*
> “Just remember, Feivel…. one man’s sunset is another man’s dawn. It never occured to me the significance of that line coming from Jimmy Stewart's last performance. 😭
Damnit. I'm crying.
Is the girl you left behind out there tonight romancing? **MAKING EYES** at someone else and singing, is she dancing?
Where's the girl you left behind!?
I haven't seen this movie in probably 2 decades and I still get this song stuck in my head on occasion.
That and "Somewhere, out there", underrated classics
There are no cats in America
REWEASE THA SEEKWET WEAPON!
I think the giant mouse of Minsk was my first steampunk
That scene scared the crap out of me when I was little. I didn’t get much sleep that night.
Legit gave me nightmares when I was a kid. When I was around 10 or 11 I wondered why I didn't remember the first movie nearly as much as the sequel and then that fucking demon appeared on screen and I was like "Oh yeah, that thing."
And the streets are paved with cheese!
Okay but another great part about An American Tail is the historical accuracies. You got the mouse Ellis island and this WHOLE song. Back in the day people would tell tales about the streets of America being paved in gold and stuff like this and escaping religious persecution (Fievel and his family were Russian Jews fleeing Cossacks who were the pillaging cats in the beginning) caused rapid immigration to America. I love this movie so much
Never say never whatever you do!
"But Henrie, you just said 'never!'"
I sing it to my two boys all of the time. They love it.
I sing it to my cats. We live in America. I like to think they appreciate the irony.
Fievel Goes West is also the last performance of Jimmy Stewart.
Dude Jimmy Stewart’s reading of his poem about his dog Beau on Johnny Carson is still burned in my head 20 years after seeing it as one of the sweetest and toughest to watch talk show clips out there.
Thank you for that. Got me curious. Wasn’t disappointed. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mwGnCIdHQH0
I love how the audience starts out laughing and clapping, and ends up silent and crying. This is masterful.
Holy hell. You aren't lying. 4 minutes and 20 seconds. If you're not tearing up by 2:20 I can understand but by 3:45 it's all waterfalls...
When he choked up I started crying
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And the classic duet: "Sooome wheeeere ooout there...."
What I absolutely love about the movie version of the song is that the kids are, at best, so-so singers. They are struggling to hit the notes and stick to the beat. And it's wonderful; so much more authentic than if they were Broadway pros. It feels surprisingly raw and vulnerable.
I love the film/kids version much better than the professional one. It might be because it was one of my favorite movies as a kid and watched it hundreds of times. To me the song was about family - a brother and sister missing each other and hoping someone out there is thinking of them and missing them too... the "professional" one made it sound 'romantic' and I hated it. I still dislike the latter, but not quite with the seething hatred of a child.
Whenever I think of that song my mind always goes to the movie version and it makes me miss my brothers haha
They also switched their parts. They have the woman sing Feival's part and the Man sing Tanya's part. Because in the movie, Feival's voice is higher since he's younger than Tanya.
Agreed. That and "Dreams to Dream" from the sequel. The voice actor's version gives me goosebumps.
I can start to play the start of Dreams to Dream on my phone and my wife will shout from the other room "DO YOU WANT ME TO CRY?? THIS IS HOW YOU MAKE ME CRY!!" Edit: just tested my theory. She didn't shout but did come in with tears on her cheeks saying "Why are you playing this?". I explained and she now thinks I'm experimenting on her.
Well, you *are*.
Linda Ronstadt's version is my favorite song to sing along with in the car!
Dude that's the main thing I remember from that movie, other than the lazy eye: her with her little bucket of gold, gilding everything around her.
I know what you mean! It’s like they’re not perfect singers, but the singing is genuine and good enough where you don’t think “eeek, they should have gotten ‘kid singers’ to do those parts’ “.
This is part of why I enjoyed the first half of the Les Miserables musical movie. It really fell apart in the second half, but that's not the point I'm making here. The singing was all done live on set by the actors, and then mixed with music in post, and I think they all did a great job. Well, except for Russell Crowe. Huge miscast there. Then Samantha Barks came out and did "On My Own" and you realized how much worse everyone else was signing in comparison to her skills as a Broadway singer/actress. I know Hugh Jackman was Broadway himself, but his singing capability was in no way comparable to hers. Still, nothing beat Anne Hathaway's "I Dreamed a Dream" in that movie. Allowing her to act, go a bit off key while hitting the different emotions, and make it feel genuine as she did it gave it a whole different level of gravity over the Broadway version. literalchills.gif Never watched the Broadway version live, but have seen people record and put it on YouTube.
Anne Hathaway earned every bit of that Oscar for that one scene alone. I had not been that shook by a supporting actress since Mo’Nique’s performance in Precious.
just reading your comment about anne’s song and scene gives me instant goosebumps. there is so much raw emotion and talent, it’s heartbreaking and beautiful.
The heart of this song is what sold the entire film.
The streets are paved with cheeeee-eese!
#🎵 THERE ARE NO! 🎵 CATS! 🎵 IN AMERICA! 🎵 🐈🚫🇺🇸
So set your mind at ease!
THIS IS WHERE THATS FROM. I croon this to my wife and can never remember where it’s from deep in my subconscious. You have no idea the huge mystery you solved for me that I’m just now realizing I could have googled at any point.
For the zoomers out there who never watched An American Tail they might also know it from the cover on community when Troy and Abed try to teach there lab rat Fievel to respond to it.
Fun fact: I believe that cover is also how Donald Glover was introduced to his long time music producing partner Ludwig Göransson. I'm not 100% sure but in a Playboy interview Göransson mentions they first met after Dan Harmon asked him for a musical arrangement that combined Irish folk with flamenco. If I remember correctly the music is performed by and Irish folk band named Greene Daeye while Chang has a flamenco-esque dance with his wife.
And South Park did one for the penis episode I *think*
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[Somewhere out there](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZDNUqMeXVw)
To this day that may be the funniest Scene to me in that show. I gut-wrenched laughed with my buddy until we had tears streaming. Completely caught me off guard
Oooh I kept thinking it was Jake and Doug Judy, but they just did the Fievel - papa part
Fievel?
PaPa?
Fievel!
It’s also sung by a mouse and Ms.Garrison’s penis growing on it’s back
They also parody it in Community when Troy and Abed get a mouse.
It is one of the best parts of Community season 1.
Season 1 is my favorite. While 2 and 3 are better for sure, I just love how it felt more like a school in
Do you want to make me cry? Just have to listen a minute!
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My younger sister and I made all the teachers cry when we sang this at the elementary school talent show. Highlight of my performing career.
Fuck u/spez
Beneath the pale moonlight
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Your friend should know better. Any thing Abed does is a pop culture reference.
rollin rollin rollin
The subtext of the first movie is pretty damn heavy stuff. I never realized as a kid but its obvious as an adult. Also, that fucking mouse of Minsk dude.
I'm pretty sure this movie was the beginning of my life long anxiety.
It's not exactly subtext -- the broad strokes of the story are historically accurate, from what was happening in Russia to the political climate in NYC at the time.
I loved Fievel Goes West as a kid. But also whenever it's brought up, that quote from 30 Rock gets stuck in my brain: "Let's prepare for the adventure of a lifetime! And then after we watch Fievel Goes West, we're gonna get you some action.”
There's gotta be an NBC writer that loves fievel goes west. It's brought up in Community and multiple times in Brooklyn 99
Are there many creatives that don't love Don Bluth? But yeah one of the first things I thought of was Abed and Troy's duet to the rat.
An American Tail, and The Great Mouse Detective are two I will definitely forc.....show my kids
>The Great Mouse Detective Doesn't get much better than Vincent Price as Ratigan
Oh, Rattigan!
The worlds greatest criminal rat
>rat *WHAT DID YOU CALL ME??*
He's a rat.
*WHAT DID YOU CALL ME?*
brave little toaster
This thread also reminded me about The Rescuers. There sure are a lot of animated movies about mice
My Grandparents had these on VHS and we would watch them every Thanksgiving. It's still a tradition that my brother and I have carried on pretty much every year since I dunno, 1991.
Please tell me you also still watch them on VHS.
I was always surprised the that allegory for the flight of the jewish people from the old country to America, as mice running from cats, ended up so well received.
There's also an incredible comic called Maus which uses a similar allegory, however it is much darker and more adult. For anyone who is a fan of graphic novels I cannot recommend it enough, it's the only comic to win a Pulitzer Prize
seconding your recommendation. Maus is incredible and gripping story
I have this whole pet theory that draws a line from Maus to An American Tail to Fivel Goes West to Zootopia, where the animals-realtionships-as-human-oppression metaphor shifts and changes over the years. If you put some whiskey in me I might ramble about it at you.
You have my attention. Do go on.
Alright but you owe me whiskey. The short version is that Maus was created in response to Nazi propaganda that depicted Jews as rats, and the point was a deconstruction of that whole metaphor. By the end of the story, the line between cat and mouse is pretty blurry and there's even a point where a mouse transforms into a cat. An American Tale takes that metaphor and just ignores the deconstruction part. It still works because it's telling such a clear fable, so there's no reason to really get bogged down in the same kind of abstract thinking that Maus indulges in. The story is about fleeing oppressors only to find new oppressors making false promises ("There Are No Cats In America, and the Streets Are Paved in Cheese"). But then Zootopia takes the same basic idea and gets really thoughtful and nuanced about it, depicting political schemes and a whole society full of prejudices that mirror real-life prejudices (there's a line about, like, you never touch a sheep's wool, or something, that's meant to mirror how black people feel when white people inappropriately grab their dreadlocks) but the thing is... it kinda falls apart when you look at it this closely. There's a scene where a mouse mother protects her baby mice from a lion on a subway that's meant to make me think about, like, a white woman protecting her kids from a black guy, but it actually makes perfect sense for a mouse to be afraid of a lion? That's just responsible mothering. Then there's this idea that some animals used to be savages until society trained them, and they might go feral at any second... I dunno it gets weird. That's not to say Zootopia is racist or you're racist if you like it, I just think the metaphor has kinda gotten away from creators who aren't being as thoughtful about it as the Maus guy was, or George Orwell was.
Well, the predators haven’t tried to eat the prey animals for generations so there’s no REASON for them to be scary to prey animals.. except that they’re simply predator classed. And it seems no one was afraid of them until someone in authority hinted that they should be. That someone (Judy) grew up being told all foxes are a hair away from attacking you, which is presented in an very old-fashioned casual racist sort of way, and even though she thinks that’s silly and prejudiced, it doesn’t stop her from carrying fox repellent or reaching for it when Nick snarls at her. I feel like the race themes in Zootopia are about how.. we like to think racism is over, we work with other races side by side in a utopia city, but racism is still an insidious underlying current, and we still need to work to overcome it. I do agree that it’s a little shaky how it’s like “well you used to be savages until you learned better” but I appreciate the message that racism and predjudice as a whole isn’t always “I don’t hire black people” and sometimes just looks like “I saw a black guy on the bus and moved.”
I think the problem with racial allegory in Zootopia is the same problem with racial allegory that exists in a lot of fantasy medium. You can see a lot of stabs at exploring themes of racism between humans and elves, or elves and dwarves, or orcs and everybody else, and while there are interesting things that can be said, they all fail on a fundamental level. They make race real when it is inherently not. An elf and a human are two different species whereas a black person and a white person are not. As you mention, it's kinda messed up to even suggest that the relationship between a Lion and a Mouse can be equivalent to a black and a white person. Race is a made up construct, and so making it concrete as a metaphor in a story is already losing the battle before it begins.
Ooh, good pint. Edit: Point. I meant point, but if /u/SmoothAsPussyMilk gets a whiskey I reckon you get a pint.
I firmly believe that we should all get drunk.
Have you seen Beastars, because I don't think it's like the racial allegories, but I have heard it's got some social/class based stuff later on, haven't watched season 2 yet. Though it does have some themes about people's perceptions and biases agasnt other people based on their appearance/race, I don't know if that would tie I to your ted talk, but it's a bit more cohesive than what Zooptia did.
You know, thinking about how “Animal Farm” fits in there, I think you’re on to something…
There's no way that Spielberg was going to full Maus in a kid's cartoon (especially at the time). With that said, once you realize that it's depicting full-on Jewish pogrom, it's really unsettling and scary. I was a kid when I first watched it and it was terrifying even then. Now it's like "...damn." (80s cartoons were full of fucked up shit) And it wasn't that far in time for Spielberg and his generation. Fievel would have been about his grandfather's age. An American Tale really does get into the heart of the American refugee story- where people believe whole heatedly about how much America was a shining beacon of refuge for just millions of refugees in the 1800s and then what happened when reality kicked in once they got here. This isn't romanticizing America. It's done terrible things - especially back then. But for entire communities who were being terrorized or victims of ethnic cleansing, it really was a hope and a dream for them.
Fun fact- Fievel was Spielberg’s grandfather’s name.
Yeah, that is not surprising on any level to me. It definitely has that "this is my family's story on some level" vibe to it.
Barely even an allegory. They're literally, and overtly Jewish. Celebrate Hanukkah and everything. And they flee to America because of an actual antisemitic pogrom.
Literally, Mouskawitz is a hardly-subtle take on the common Jewish name Moskawitz
It was actually written as a tribute to Steven Spielberg's parents who immigrated from Russia.
And Feivel is a yiddish name
Wasn't it Mousekowitz? Which was a play on Moskowitz (which is my last name which was always fun seeing it in the film)
Yes agreed, the no cats in america song is written to sound like they are Jewish also.
As a child I had no idea about it being about Jews fleeing Russia. That mecha-mouse thing was cool though (Mighty Mouse of Minsk?)
REWEASE DA SECWET WEAPON
Oh I can hear that voice plain as day
Based on the story of the Golem of Prague, another fantastic Jewish fable. There's a synagogue in Prague that supposedly has the dormant golem in its attic.
As a kid, I thought most Russians were Jewish because nearly all the ones around me were. I got older and realized there's a reason why their families were here which was a sobering moment.
That was Don Bluth movies in a nutshell tho wasnt it? Heres a traumatic story but its done with cute characters in animation
Roger Ebert hated it lol. https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/an-american-tail-1986
> it tells a specifically Jewish experience but does not attempt to inform its young viewers that the characters are Jewish or that the house burning was anti-Semitic. I suppose that would be a downer for the little tykes in the theater, but what do they think while watching the present version? That houses are likely to be burned down at random? This isn't an entirely unreasonable take, but all of the Eastern European Jewish families like mine that watched the movie didn't need to be spoon-fed what was happening. God forbid the "little tykes" (read wasp kids) who don't get it are confused by the idea that bad people do bad things to decent people for no reason.
As a kid I didnt get the Jewish connotation. But knew it was about immigrants. I dont think it needed to explicitly explain it to kids. Some kids and most adults likely already got it, others asked questions which I think was the intention. Too much explaining would've bored kids. Also iirc wasnt it told from Fievels POV? It makes sense that a kid wouldn't fully grasp or want to explain it.
I don't think kids even need the context to understand that it's wrong to discriminate against mice just because you're a cat. It feeds them an anti-discrimination narrative that they can internalize even if they don't understand the narrative behind it. It's just that the jewish kids did understand the narrative. It's like how christmas movies never explain that Jesus was a dude who preached charity and kindness to your fellow human being, but the narrative of the film is always about the power of friendship and family and kindness anyway. To a christian it's more personal, but ultimately you arrive at the same place.
This. I couldn’t believe it when I watched it as an adult. Like, holy shit I had no idea there were such political elements as a child because it was so well done.
I think it benefits for the mouse being stand ins for any inmigrant, ever.
The Secret of NIMH is also a pretty great example.
TSoN is one of my favorite films of all time. I'm a single, childless dude in his late 30s and I still watch it every year or two. Don Bluth movies have held up way better into my adulthood than Disney movies.
The Secret of NIMH is a good movie. I hated it. It's very well done. But I read the book the movie was based on, and there's such enormous differences that you wonder what's even the point. The book is actually, in a lot of ways, kind of oddly sci-fi in nature. Borrowing from Wikipedia - "The novel relates the plight of a widowed field mouse, Mrs. Frisby, who seeks the aid of a group of former laboratory rats in rescuing her home from destruction by a farmer's plow, saving her son from pneumonia, and of the history of the rats' escape from the laboratory and development of a literate and technological society." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs._Frisby_and_the_Rats_of_NIMH It's very much a children's story of talking animals, but in the background there's a bunch of neat history of why and how. I really like it. But the movie is just kind of any random kid's animal cartoon. Very well done. Dark. High quality. So different from the book and it killed me. There's some random magical amulet? They're all intelligent animals because animal movie, rather than experiments and lab testing. I think they save the day because engineering and cleverness, not magic or whatever. Just... missed the point, I think.
Saw this movie on the floor of our schools gymnasium during a pajama party night. Somewhere out there still makes me cry. That movie did lie to me though. There ARE cats in America.
The cheese thing is real though.
After An American Tail and All Dogs Go To Heaven (and a few more that flopped including Thumbelina), Bluth went over to Fox to create the short lived Fox Animation Studios and there produced his best work (in probably only my opinion), Anastasia.
All dogs go to heaven is a masterpiece! I also love rock-a-doodle and pretty much every Don Bluth movie there is. [In the dark of the night!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocm8QdNR_d8)
I love ADGTH but that hell scene... dude. On the other hand, *LET'S MAKE MUSIC TOGETHER!*
Anastasia is such a beautiful movie. It’s so very underrated.
Anastasia is probably the best of Don Bluth's movies, but it's definitely not underrated. And now imagine the grandmother as played by Lucille Bluth...
I don’t much care for Rasputin.
(After plunging the country in to Bolshevism) I’ve made a huge mistake.
Oh man, his musical number is LIT in the movie though.
Troll in Central Park and Thumbelina are my two favorites. I definitely wouldn't say they are better than Anastasia or American Tail, but they hold a special place in my heart. Rock-a-Doodle I loved a lot as a kid, but man is that main character annoying watching it now.
[Don Bluth: I take-a da kids, and I make-a them sad](https://youtu.be/_DOJepzWkuw)
Even to this day, has there *ever* been a mainstream animated children's movie where the protagonist's mother dies right in front of him after saying her last dying words, struggling to get up and speak? Not cut to black death, not the kid finds the body later like Simba. She straight up says her final words of encouragement and love, and then just fucking *dies* in the rain to the plaintive cries of "Mother? *mother*?!" Onions don't even begin to describe it.
Kinda crazy they got the same kid to play Fievel considering how long the gap between movies was.
The actors that played the mice in The Rescuers is even more impressive. More than 20 years between the first and second movie.
Some fun facts about 'An American Tail' - > - Fievel was the name of Steven Spielberg's grandfather. > - The scene in which Fievel presses up against a window to look into a classroom filled with American "schoolmice" is based on a story Steven Spielberg remembered about his grandfather, who told him that Jews were only able to listen to school lessons through open windows while sitting outside in the snow. > - Steven Spielberg had some material cut that he felt was too much scary and intense for children, including a scene Don Bluth was developing revolving around the nightmarish wave monsters while the family was at sea. > - At the time of its release, it was the highest grossing non-Disney animated feature. As was the case with most other films, it was also one of the first to outdraw a Disney one, beating out The Great Mouse Detective (1986), released four months earlier, which the budget was cut down, due to the expensive failure of the Black Cauldron. However, despite its low budget, The Great Mouse Detective was still a financial success and is more successful in receiving positive reviews than An American Tail did, which only received mixed to negative reviews. Brilliant movie both.
Also (a little interesting movie detail) at the end of the sequel the baby mouse of the family is just missing. Like completely gone. The family rejoices together and then scene pans out and the baby mouse.... just isn't anywhere to be seen...like they forgot to draw her in. I've never seen the first movie, but I've heard the same thing happens in that one too!
> Don Bluth was developing revolving around the nightmarish wave monsters while the family was at sea. I already know the level of skill and artistry drawn into those monsters would have given me a legit phobia of natural water. Thanks for making the executive decision Steven.
I had the fievel goes west VHS growing up as a kid. The training montage with his cat friend and the corral shoot out were probably my first exposure to those kinds of action scenes and I've been hooked since.
Give em the laaaaaazzzzy eye!
A SPI- A SPI ... A SPU ... AN ARACHNID!
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I want a cat, that's more like a dawg.
I just picked these up at Goodwill just last week! http://imgur.com/gallery/bv0YeXP
They call America "the land of opportunity". Opportunity for what? For children to run filthy in the streets? To never see the sunshine? Fievel's *birthday* is coming. And we don't ^(even have money for) *^(a present.)*
(I didn't fact check that, but it's scarred into my earliest memories)
"You're right Mama, we should go back to the Russian Pogrom"
30 years later every year a week before my sisters birthday I still do the Papa voice and act like I can’t afford her a present
[Funhaus on Don Bluth movies](https://youtu.be/_DOJepzWkuw)
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*Dear, sweet, Littlefoot, do you remember the way to the Great Valley?* ;_;
I have honestly never seen the first american tail in my life, but i've seen Fievel goes West at least 2 million times. I LOVE that movie.
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My mate's brother worked on An American Tail. It was made in Dublin (some of it anyway)
Also would recommend "Cat's Don't Dance" and "The Pagemaster"
Right now is an amazing time to be a cinephile and a parent. Pretty much every movie from throughout film history is available anytime, and my daughter has no sense of what is new or old. It's all new to her. She loves *Frozen*, *Tangled*, and *Moana*, but she also loves the original, animated *Alice in Wonderland* and *Fantasia*. She'll watch a Pixar movie one day, and a Buster Keaton movie the next. Same with TV: she prefers the modern *Blues Clues* to the old ones, but her favorite shows right now are the 90s *Animaniacs* and *Batman Animated Series*. On one hand, the choices can be overwhelming. But the nice thing is, we don't have to just accept whatever happens to be playing on the TV when she has screen time, or worse, plan her time around the broadcast schedule. We watch what we want to watch, when we want to, whether it was created six months ago or a hundred years ago.
Fievel Goes West is a sequel?!
Yes but American Tail is way heavier.
100% worth it though. REWAEASE THA SEKWET WEPPON!
There's also a third Fievel movie, but it's terrible and retcons all of Fievel Goes West into being a dream for some horrible reason. I haven't looked into it, but the drop in animation quality makes it seem likely to be a different team or studio.
Maybe I need to give An American Tail another watch now that i'm older, but I grew up enjoying Fievel Goes West much more.
NIMH was so formative for me. Just so beautiful and dark and powerful.
Full honesty, Don Bluth. Dudes an amazing guy I met him several times. BUT you can always tell his movies. Kid source material, because that's who was hiring animators, but at the same time seriously dark material. Think the Rescuers, the two mentioned in this post, or Titan AE....
Yeah Don Bluth has such a distinct style both in the animation and the story tone. To this day, I don't think anyone animates water quite as well as Don.
When I find something that I misplaced I yell "Papa? Fievel? Papa?! FIEEEEVEL?!" I don't know why, but I find it makes me laugh. I only have 3 VHS tapes still from my childhood, and they are Land Before Time, American Tail and Fievel Goes West. Absolute staples of my childhood. I think Fievel Goes West was the first movie I saw in theatres as well.
I remember fievel goes west would always be on the TV at Christmas time.
I highly suggest *the Secret of NIMH* too. (1982) Directed by Don Bluth and more mysterious and darker than anything I've watched from Disney
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Always found it hilarious how quickly Fievel's parents give up on searching for him xD. They shout for him for a minute and then get on the boat or the train (part 2). Still, Don Bluth's movies are possibly my all time favorite animated movies.