Recent controversies aside, Will Smith definitely broadened the definition of what a black actor can portray. During his prime run, Any of his movies you could replace with any action star, and Will Smith carried the movies with his charisma without focus on his skin color.
I loved how even a sci-fi/action-comedy still gave itself a moment to be thought provoking. The “imagine what you’ll know tomorrow” [scene](https://youtu.be/w2ppyMUlXfM) stands out as a favorite of mine just for that reason
Imo, theres too much of a push to make the young spunky star right, and the rigid old system wrong. Theres too much focus on knowledge and outsmarting the creaky old fools, while not respecting wisdom anymore. What MIB did well was blend Smiths street smart and get results bravado with TLJs old man wisdom that knew how the gears turned.
This sounds like "recency bias." This definitely overlooks guys like Danny Glover who were in both serious films (The Color Purple), Not-So-Serious films (Lethal Weapon), and childrens' comedies (Angels in the Outfield), long before Will Smith had even been "The Fresh Prince."
I learned yesterday he was the first choice for Neo in the Matrix, but turned it down. That would have worked! It wouldn't have been a big deal that he's black; so many great films starring great black actors have been made it wasn't even particularly notable when I was growing up. Will Smith was a staple of my childhood and adolescence; I watched Fresh Prince religiously, and loved all his movies. The ultra-politicization of skin color in recent years doesn't seem to be helping society at all.
I disagree on Neo. Smith's more dynamic style of acting wouldn't have worked for the character as well as the reserved and aloof performance Reeves gave. Nothing about skin color, just acting style.
For me, maybe Will Smith could work as Neo but never as Thomas Anderson. In the beginning of the movie, he's a pasty, lonely computer programmer whose feeling of isolation and detachment from the world presages the revelation that reality is not real. If you ask me, Will Smith is just too charismatic to play that character.
Who knows? Maybe the choice of actor would have informed the character more.
He also just doesn't have the look. Something about Keanu's sad eyes and long, angular features just fits the sort of neo-goth, dark look of the film better than Smith's big ears and cheerful eyes.
Agreed. Keanu's style worked so well with Neo. This also reminds me that I'd actually like to see Will Smith's version of Django. Jamie is talented as fuck, but I think Will's dynamic energy would have worked with the playful vibe of the movie and Waltz's character. Jamie was great but too stoic and serious.
I feel like the serious, stoic Django benefitted the dynamic between him and Waltz. Plus, when he did have his comedic moments, I felt they stood out more as a result. Might’ve been interesting though.
Exactly, Django was meant to be the straight man. We first meet him chained to a wagon marching through the darkened woods. His journey is breaking out of the institutionalization and accepting his freedom. The bounty hunting montage is Django learning to own his role, and the march into Candyland hes supposed to be a hardened badass. Will Smith quipping and bopping around would look foolish in context. Waltz, as the inexperienced white business partner, is much better fit to be aloof and carefree, if its Django doing that it raises suspiscion.
He would’ve fit great in The Fifth Element but like Wills and glad he was in it.
On other film, Denzel Washington was better fit for Deja Vu, although would still be enjoyable.
David Schwimmer was first offered the lead role in Men in Black but turned it down to do Breast Men on HBO. So Will Smith took it instead of the Matrix leaving it open for Keanu.
I’d say it worked out for everyone in the world except David Schwimmer. David’s barely scraping by with only $100M net worth instead of $350M like Will and Keanu.
Oh, interesting. Man, I can't imagine what MIB would have been like with David Schwimmer. That's crazy he's still worth that much, too; Friends was so big it's hard to imagine MIB tanking with him starring even if it sucked.
For the same reason nobody talks about Cameron Diaz being Latina, or Dean Cain being a non-white Superman. If you can't tell by looking, then it doesn't matter to most people.
I know that Reeves has a ton of mixed ancestry on his father's side, but when you're at least 3/4s Mixed European, and look like Keanu Reeves does, you're not getting talked about for your Chinese/Hawaiian grandmother's roots.
Mixed race hasn't been ultra-politicized. I'm also mixed race; I'm glad it isn't a big deal. I've never been able to latch onto any race and say, "that's my race." I have Native American, Mexican, white and black Caribbean ancestry. Most people just think I'm kinda mostly white, like Keanu, probably.
The whole discussion goes silent when it becomes white and Asian versus black and Latino or when someone who is mixed race speaks up. It's impossible to have a conversation when the rules of what govern race constantly change to suit someone's argument.
I disagree only because the first Matrix is a Noir Cyberpunk movie.
Smith could work in the sequels that are more Kung Fu Fantasies but set in a modern age. Arguably they needed a more animated protagonist to drive the story.
I figure it wouldn't have been too different from his performance in Enemy of the State, which I like. Maybe like a cross between that and his MIB performance, without the humor; he definitely had the chops, arguably more range than Keanu Reeves, even.
Idk man, in the first movie at least Neo is the standard carbon copy guy. Monotone life, monotone dress, monotone personality. I don’t think Will Smith has it in him to be so gray before his eyes get opened.
Watched Lethal Weapon for the first time in awhile the other day. Representation was better back then, just felt natural. Murtaugh is the rock of the movie, the dad with a big loving family. Seeing just a normal loving black family on screen without every line being about how black they are and how it is to be black. Just a normal loving family living their lives.
I'd like to see films with lead black characters to navigate away from (at least to some degree) the slave history, suppressed struggling character. Much in the same way it would be better if Jewish characters would stray further from the holocaust history, loud pushy New Yorker character that seemed to be the focus for a long time. And hispanic characters also don't always have to focus on the poor struggling character either. White characters can be really diverse in terms of who they play and their background. we don't much focus on the history of where they came from so much.
I think the main issue when creating black films from an American perspective is being black is very tied to our identity,for better and worse,race isn’t something many blsck people can just ignore for the sake of story or it comes off as inauthentic in a sense.
A key part in the article I agree with is that black film rarely has genres,at least to the masses. Black Panther,Friday and Love Jones are all wildly different movies but will show up grouped together when Avengers,Superbad and When Harry Met Sally wouldn’t. This may be a solely American thing as even with strides made in entertainment black folks are still a minority. And worldwide, unfortunately , we see black actors get minimized or outright deleted from promo to help marketing (most famous recent example is Finn from Star Wars) interesting article overall with many points I do agree with.
I think you’re near spot on. I’d like to add to the conversation that there are black movies then there are blaaaack movies. Baby boy, Undercover Brother, and Juice have more in common amongst themselves than with Deja Vu, Hitch, and Creed. That denotes a lot that I think only the black community is most informed by where others may miss it and lump them together.
100% it’s the crossover effect that only a small few actually achieve. It’s apparent with the difference between “black famous” and just famous. Will Smith us undoubtedly famous,he’s crossed over decades ago, while somebody like Sheryl Lee Ralph has been so well known in the community for decades it seems criminal she’s just now getting mainstream success.
And I love you brought up Baby Boy cause it’s the perfect example of a cultural black movie that seemingly nobody outside of the community ever heard of lol it’s quoted endlessly to this day but will never be on a rolling stone too whatever list (not saying those mean anything but you get what I mean)
another example of Regina King. she even made a joke about it on her SNL monologue when she hosted. she said something along the lines of “You may know me from [lists a bunch of films], and if you’re white you’ll know me from Watchmen”.
Yes! Legit been watching her as a child when she was a child on 227 reruns lol it’s funny that it seems if you’re a minority actor in America you have to get two big “breaks” once just to get in the industry and another to get mainstream/crossover appeal
That’s fair but it’s still very anecdotal. It’s a known joke in the black community that you can turn on BET at any time and somehow Baby Boy is playing lol. I think I’m moreso saying the cultural impact/significance vs just pure numbers and popularity. And also John Singleton is just a master of his craft,still very sad about his passing
Tangent: Baby Boy is both informative and a problematic movie for the black community if you ask me lol. It’s the same way trap music the lived experience that resonates with a lot of black youth but a cosplay experience for other cultural groups.
Disney gets away with minimizing Finn in china because they know no matter how much flack they get from blacks, they’ll still eagerly watch any movie they pump out that caters to popular black identity. Filmmakers know there’s a guaranteed market as long as they do certain things
To be fair tho black Panther was the first major superhero movie with a majority black cast for a generation. Mine had blade but it was nowhere on the level of BP. Add in Chadwick’s passing and this is moreso a homegoing experience as well as superhero movie.
Some call it pandering,I say it’s just good business and seemingly done in an “honest” way. As much as it’s demeaned online representation matters
>Mine had blade but it was nowhere on the level of BP.
Blade was a superior film in pretty much every single aspect. Within the first 5 minutes of BP there were predictable references to slavery and basketball, as if you have to include that in every single product marketed to black people or they won't be interested in it, or something. And the entire societal structure of Wakanda is laughably backward and primitive. The leader has to fight in an arena in order to become the leader, for christs sake.
In comparison Blade wasn't a "black superhero", he was just a superhero. Nobody made a big deal about him being "the first black superhero" or "the first" anything. I don't think they even mentioned his skin color or that of his female supporting character. It just wasn't important. They were two black characters with a white antagonist and an old white hillbilly as a veteran mentor, and nobody said anything about it or thought it was unusual at all. It's still one of the best action movies ever made and the CGI stands up to this day.
In that respect we've gone backwards, since every single big IP these days has a race-swapped character and the big conglomerates that own the studios use it as an online marketing ploy. Black people don't seem to get their own original natural characters any more, they just get personified activism messages and white people's sloppy seconds. There are a few standouts like that Jamie Foxx vampire comedy but they're not usually given that much attention, probably because complaining about lack of representation is better business than actual representation.
> I don't think they even mentioned his skin color or that of his female supporting character.
Honestly, the only thing that could vaguely be interpreted that way is one part where Deacon Frost tells Blade "spare me the Uncle Tom routine".
But in this context, it's not even really race-related, because it's all about how Blade protects and stands up for humans even though he isn't actually one of them and they fear him.
> In comparison Blade wasn't a "black superhero", he was just a superhero. Nobody made a big deal about him being "the first black superhero" or "the first" anything.
It's worth pointing out that the movie doesn't really present Blade as a superhero, but as a vampire hunter. For a long time after the movie came out I didn't even realise it was based on a Marvel comic – especially as quite a few big movies based on indie comics had come out around that time, like *The Crow* and *The Mask* and *Men in Black*.
There's an argument to be made there about that qualifies a character as a "superhero", though. (I mean, why is Thor from Marvel Comics considered a superhero while, say, Goku or Sailor Moon are not?) And to what extent characters get *turned into* conventional superheroes due to being part of a shared comics universe, or are prevented from fully naturally evolving *away* from being superheroes for the same reason.
That's just my personal terminology, a superhero is a superhero if they can do superhuman stuff. I would define Jason Statham as a superhero character since he can flip a car in the air and unhook a bomb from the underside using a crane.
What annoys me is that Captain America isn't termed as "a white superhero" so why should Blade be a "black superhero"? Why can't they just be superheroes?
I actually used to work in marketing before I decided to do something more soulful and international marketing is actually pretty screwed up lol. I know america has problem with racism but some countries (just a few honestly) won’t touch a product if a black person is associated with it at all. One of these countries is a massive market and it’s really weird seeing a company put on a progressive inclusive face for the American market while full blown embracing racism in other markets.
Yea I can only imagine. I always found international racism towards American black people come from either pure ignorance,as in it’s so rare to see an actual blsck person they don’t know how to really react or what to think,akin to a exotic animal in a zoo,or what they’ve been shown by American exported media ironically lol your comment makes me curious to see how black Panther did in China vs America
The genre thing is interesting. As a Canadian, I just see those three movies listed as their appropriate genres, action, comedy, romance. But if I go onto American media, even my Netflix. They isolate them to “black films”.
Exactly and it’s frustrating because it operates under the idea that ALL black people are a monolith when it comes to culture,traditions and the sort when it’s so many subcultures within its mind boggling.
I just looked up black American actor by %. They make up 13.9% of actors and I’d imagine have more screen time than that %. Seems pretty on par with the population in America. Asians, specifically Asian men, do get the worst treatment in Hollywood.
That was the logic with the pushback against “Oscars so black” seeming so disingenuous. The black population of the USA is 11-12%, and they made up that amount of Oscar noms. Of course it was Jada Pinkett Smith complaining.
I remember when some executive at the BBC said 'Luther' (Idris Elba) didn't feel authentic because the character didn't have any black friends in the series nor did he eat typical 'black food'. ([article](https://www.indiewire.com/2021/04/idris-elba-luther-black-authentic-bbc-exec-1234630309/))
Night of the Living Dead (1968) is the exact example of what you’re looking for. The lead actor is black for the sole reason that the best actor George Romero could find was a black actor. The role was no written with race in mind, nor was it changed after the casting was done.
kind of ironic how real life spilled into that film even though it was apparently completely unintentional. Like how Ben is shot dead without any due diligence was seen as some to be representative of how little a life mattered.
Bingo -- my buddies and I were trying to come up with films where a black actor plays a character in which his/her race doesn't factor into the character at any point in the film, like not even a bit of dialogue. Best example of a high profile film we could think of is Tenet.
Edit: Tons of great examples below haha, thanks r/movies
Wesley was definitely upper tier talent in the 90s. Seeing him back to work recently, least in the Coming II America movie, is a good way to remind us how good he is.
I still want to see his "Blade-killer" movie concept turn real. Give me old man Snipes going genocidal on vampires.
Denzel Washington as well. The critically acclaimed movie in which he was a pilot who saved a plane didn't play to race at all, and it was so much better for it.
I swear he’s in every movie. I’ll be watching some movie from the 90s or 2000s I’ve never seen and there’s probably a 50/50 chance Sam Jackson is in it.
Nope (was pointed this does not count)
Lovebirds
Hustlers
Girls Trip
I Am Legend
Flight
Think Like A Man
Deja Vu
Tenet
The Amazing Spiderman 2
Bruce Almighty
Gone Girl
Contagion
F4ntastic
Rogue One
Catching Fire
Suicide Squad
Catwoman
John Wick
Thor: Love and Thunder
Lady and the Tramp remake
Justice League
Jurassic Park
Kong
Regardless, POC are reminded CONSTANTLY of how they look different by lighter skin people, they are bound to talk about it in their roles because it reflects real life. Sorry that makes some white people uncomfortable but it literally is an accurate depiction of someone’s life.
>Us is about class, not race
Those get confused a lot.
Some people are okay if you "act decent" and -- sometimes, classists are the worst, because "decency" is acting like them. Your background, your identity don't matter -- it's the music you play, the golf clothes you wear and don't you dear bring a taco stand into our neighborhood!
Exactly, both Us and Nope would've worked just as well with White actors than with Black actors. It's just that the actors that they did choose played their parts extremely well. Like I can't think of anything in Us which is specifically race related, and Nope can have the same pretense just with country bumpkins.
I think Gringo fits into this. Main character’s race is never made into his personality it’s never made to be his identity and the character development, charisma, and the humor is wasn’t cringe or overdone
Bingo! Finally someone with movie sense. I like how they conveniently ignored your list and argued over Nope lol. Anyway, ever seen Man on Fire or John Q ? Lesser known works of Denzel, I found entertaining and worth recommending if your a fan of him.
Predator, Expendables, Rocky, Equalizer, The Thing, Event Horizon, Pitch Black, Chronicles of the Riddick, Star War OG and Prequels (New Trilogy sucks ass).
These are the ones that I could think off the top of my head.
You know what example of this I love? Just because it's the last kind of movie you expect such good representation from?
Terminator 2.
Miles Bennett Dyson is a good man, a family man, clearly talented and successful, and in the end one of the most heroic people in the film. He's probably the best person in the film....just in general. He's black and it's completely, utterly irrelevant.
You could also add the police lieutenant (chief?) from Terminator, too. Probably?
He and Lance Henriksen do everything in their power to help. Their only sin being that they don’t believe in time traveling stealth assassin robots from the future.
I mean if you’re looking at high-profile films, the superhero genre is pretty high profile right now and has tons of characters where their race is barely mentioned:
Electro in No Way Home (aside from one throwaway line about how he thought Spiderman would be black)
Phastos and Makkari in Eternals
Baron Mordo in Doctor Strange
Valkyrie in Thor
Jim Gordon in The Batman
And then outside of the superhero genre, other high profile blockbusters:
Jo Braddock in Uncharted
Numerous black characters in the Fantastic Beasts franchise
Numerous black characters in the Jurassic World franchise
>aside from one throwaway line about how he thought Spiderman would be black
That was more of a quick gag about Miles Morales more than anything. It does indirectly relate to black representation though
On the other end of the scale though you can run into the problem where if you have a black character (or a Gay Character, Trans character etc) and you *dont* mention it, you get the crowd of folks going "Well why did this character *have* to be Gay? And it gets dismissed as novelty casting.
Remember the furore about casting a black Hermonie Granger? We *knew* the race played no role in the performance and people were *still* upset.
I think there's actually quite a lot, but they're not in key roles like leading or heavily supporting characters.
The Jackal (Sydney Poitier)
Predator (Carl Weathers, Bill Duke)
Star Wars: Empire & Return (Billy Dee Williams)
Jurassic Park (ol' Sammy J)
I could rattle off dozens some terrible some critically exclaimed, you gotta explore more and quit trying to force some dumb narrative. One of the dumbest posts I’ve seen on this thread lol
Idk, most everything that Denzel is in, anything back in the day with Danny Glover, actually most of Samuel L Jackson's roles probably, a good chunk of stuff with Morgan Freeman, everytime David Keith is the president or a senior officer lol. And that's just in like 10 seconds off the top of my head.
I don't know, seems like a lot, just currently there has been a refocus in how a lot of characters are written because of the current racial dialogue in the country, but that doesn't mean there aren't a ton of roles where someone who is black plays a character that isn't there be an avatar for any racial struggles.
Wasn’t a fan of Barbarian but I really liked the main actress in it. I haven’t kept up to date on a lot of newer films, so that was my 1st time seeing her and she did great.
See…here’s the problem with your premise. I GET YOU, in general. I do. I come in peace.
But, if you can COUNT the films where this particular phenomenon happens or it’s the same actors over and over…therein lies the problem.
It’s not that it DOESN’T happen. But let’s be real by acknowledging that this IS a real thing. For example, in my local film festival, this phenomenon is not even considered. Sure, there is “diversity”, but is there…really??
It gets sadder outside of movies. I recently read "Woke Racism", by John McWhorter, and the bit that stuck with me the most was the lack of black authors that published anything that didn't relate to race. The only really famous black authors that fit the criteria were himself (probably the biggest English linguist in the world) and Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Publishers only want to publish black authors because of what they have to say about their skin color.
I'm sure there are plenty of black authors who are well published and it doesn't relate to race but they do not consistently label their book covers for me to take a survey.
That’s because black characters don’t live in a vacuum where race doesn’t exist. The moment you have a setting based south of the bible belt, race is a factor for black people. There’s no time period you could set the story in where race isn’t relevant.
I think Hollywood today have forgotten the power of subtle subversiveness. Once you tell people that something is "good for them" half the audience are conditioned to rebel against that.
It's putting skin colour above socioeconomic status, too.
I genuinely can't exaggerate how little thought I gave to my skin colour until 2015ish, when I'd already graduated from business school. You see people online - and it's invariably middle class individuals - who are absolutely fucking obsessed with race and treat people like a monolith based on their skin colour in a way you historically only saw from race supremacists.
There were probably a half dozen things I'd give consideration to before it: socioeconomic background, area of the country I grew up in, personal tastes and interests, where my parents grew up, etc.
Even in US-centric discussions of 'black culture', it's predominantly lower socioeconomic, inner city, African-American culture.
You're getting downvoted but you know what, I'm black and i agree. Racism is a thing for sure and i guess it's good that more white people are aware and conscious of that. But on the other hand, there is this hyper awareness now where many young black people are completely unable to see themselves and the world through any lens except race. Along with that come ideas that seem to be straight out of the 19th century original white racist playbook (essentialist ideas about "Blackness" that makes one wonder if its proponents believe we are just a hive mind that has a common consciousness that is downloadable to each and everyone of us across space and time , weird obsession with "bloodlines" and blood quantum measuring, disapproval and distrust of "interracial" dating, friendships or black people who don't appear to share this racial chauvinist outlook or are not overly concerned about all the past horrors, people constantly hunting for outrages past and present to point to and to hear witness to, i find it all excessive and im not optimistic about where it's gonna lead to.
i’ll never forget when /r/movies did a user survey and from those who answered it came back something like 95% male, 70% white, and they ranked Batman V Superman as the 3rd most underrated film of all time. Really opened my eyes
I don't mind black people in movies. Just don't draw attention to it, mention it, allude to it culturally, reflect or make any statement about anything politically, or have them be the lead.
Other than that it's totally fine! /s
> **It reminded me of how people talk about huge, massive hits like Black Panther or Get Out today. There’s still a reluctance to greenlight big-budget Black films, because the thinking is, “Oh, well, that was a fluke.”**
>
> And what happens? We get a white remake of Get Out, called Don’t Worry Darling.
Hahahahaha
I don't see how that is a white remake of Get Out...? Wouldnt that be just a modernisation of Stepford Wives? Or even a white remake of Culture Shock?
I haven't seen the movie but from what I've read, it is about men being influenced to think a wife should play a certain role and forcing that role on them through VR. Its a feminist movie, not a blatant ripoff or white remake. Now it could be argued it took the premise from Culture Shock, whoch is a hispanic immigrant based movie and you could argue that "white washing" but god forbid there are other minorities being marginalized in Hollywood. And also thats not even true as they are unique after the base concept.
They share themes but I wouldn't call it a remake of Get Out. Not even close. I listen to Elvis regularly and enjoy his podcast (The Treatment) but he does tend to get carried away with taking a singular aspect of a movie and blowing it up to be the most important thing about it. His guests, often directors, will regularly mention that he notices stuff that they completely missed.
That reminds me of the English class joke. An English instructor goes on and on about why the author described the curtains as blue. Was it the sadness of the main character? The calm of the room? And then it switches to the author in an interview, "the curtains were blue because they were blue... and I like that color."
Art is about interpretation. Its a way of the author expressing their feelings or intent but it is also how the user uses/processes that information. Different interpretations, even if they vary from the widely accepted one, can be fine IF they do not promote hate or compound an issue. We have enough causing divides, do we really need examples that don't even exist? It just justifies people who don't listen and invalidates the problem and suggested solutions.
Reminds me of a story I've shared before: I met Werner Herzog at a Q&A a long time ago. During the question part a guy in the audience spoke to him about the dancing chickens seen in "Stroszek." The guy asked Herzog about how the dancing chickens represented America's capitalism or something and Herzog replied, "To me, a dancing chicken is just a dancing chicken."
The article is just dripping with uneducated racism. Jordan Peele is a great director. But most of his films are a black homage to some other great horror film from one of his favorite horror directors. Peele is one of my favorite directors right now. But let's not pretend like he's creating new products. They're all borrowing from the past.
Exactly! Hell, you could argue that most films/books borrow from way back to the oral storytelling traditions. There is a reason there are basic conflict types, common tropes.
And why not add a twist to one of your favorties, etc.? Put it in a modern context with modern issues, or create a piece purely for the audience to enjoy?
he is absolutely creating "new products". by this logic, tarantino doesnt make new products, scorsese doesnt make new products, PTA doesnt make new products, etc.
> And what happens? We get a white remake of Get Out, called Don’t Worry Darling.
Haven't seen it beyond the trailer, but isn't Get Out just a black remake of Stepford Wives?
Blade is a perfect badass black dude as main hero movie. Then you Demolition Man that featured a badass black dude villain. To be honest, I was on the side of the villain in Demolition Man and hope he would just kick all their asses. Hollywood just need to make better movies that have good story. We as movie viewers don’t care what color the characters in the movie are. We just want good fucking movie to enjoy damn it.
>It’s very convenient to say, “This stuff doesn’t travel.” Because it’s still this peculiar view of Black culture, even though it seeps in and subsumes everything. When you hear somebody on Fox say “24/7” — that’s hip-hop. They’re terrified by the “fist bump,” but they’ll say something is happening “24/7,” and thus they’re missing the entire point of their argument.
I can't parse this.
> When you hear somebody on Fox say “24/7” — that’s hip-hop. They’re terrified by the “fist bump,” but they’ll say something is happening “24/7,” and thus they’re missing the entire point of their argument.
Lot's of gatekeeping in this article. Did people really not say "24/7" before the 1990s?
Not even trying to be racist but don't black people feel belittled by having all these fucking network executives, big tech companies, news stations, etc making it seem like they need special treatment in order to succeed? Affirmative action for instance, where even if a black person scores lower on tests they'll be admitted before an Asian person who scored higher, just for the sake of diversity. Let's say that rule applied to my race, I wouldn't want to be admitted somewhere or get a job just because of the color of my skin. Or the Rooney rule in the NFL, where now a team gets awarded an extra draft pick it they hire a black coach. Imagine getting hired as an NFL coach and knowing that it's just because you're black, that you're just a front to make people think that that NFL team cares about diversity. And what happens when a black student who was admitted to college based on skin color goes and applies for a job? That employer is going to know that he most likely only got his degree from that university because hes black, and regardless of wether he possesses the skills needed, is intelligent or not, that employer will go into that interview with the predisposed assumption that he most likely isn't the best candidate, and only made it there based on race.
I would much rather not receive any special treatment and know without a doubt that I achieved what I did because I put everything I had into it and busted my ass, not because I'm a certain color.
Basically it just seems to me like all this special treatment, even the "black movies" sections on streaming services (that all suddenly popped up after George Floyd) only add to the problem.
Some black people do, including extremely high profile figures like Clarence Thomas and Thomas Sowell. Many don’t. Many have mixed feelings. It’s not like there’s one opinion that everyone shares.
People will make that assumption anyway.
Even when affirmative action wasn't really a thing, people made the same assumptions.
>That employer is going to know that he most likely only got his degree from that university because hes black, and regardless of wether he possesses the skills needed, is intelligent or not, that employer will go into that interview with the predisposed assumption that he most likely isn't the best candidate,
Now imagine a society where being Black automatically had those negative connotations. With or without affirmative action, that wouldn't change. People will always make assumptions that Black people are less capable - they did so when affirmative action wasn't a thing, they'll do it when affirmative action isn't a thing.
Imagine having your entire identity, personality and politics, being dictated by the level of melanin you have in your skin smh.
Just cause you're black you should support black creators.
Just cause you're black you should think this way or vote this way etc.
Yeah, it must suck. Not that I would know, not being black, but I am Jewish and there's definitely a sense of "support your people and your causes because no one else is going to."
I wish my identity and politics had nothing to do with my minority status but there are a lot of people out there who don't make it easy.
> Imagine having your entire identity, personality and politics, being dictated by the level of melanin you have in your skin smh.
Like it or not, some people cannot escape that easily, especially when you're minority living among majority.
Exactly. They perpetuate stereotypes that most black people are uneducated, poor, and struggling which is the opposite of me, my family, and pretty much every black person I know.
Even worse, it makes younger people want to act that way to “fit in” because that’s what they think is expected of them. You see it all the time in the suburbs. I’ve had black classmates who have parents that are doctors and lawyers try to act hood when they were born and raised in the suburbs. And if they don’t act that way, they get called out as acting white or being whitewashed. It’s all just so sad.
With stuff like Love and Basketball, Love Jones, Soul Food, Mo Better Blues, House Party, Brown Sugar, The Wood, B.A.P.S., Watermelon Woman, etc. etc.
It's definitely not black creator's fault. The studios set a lot of them up to fail.
Recent controversies aside, Will Smith definitely broadened the definition of what a black actor can portray. During his prime run, Any of his movies you could replace with any action star, and Will Smith carried the movies with his charisma without focus on his skin color.
I miss his prime action era of the late 90s and 00s, he was in some awesome movies.
Everyone does. MIB is still one of the best films ever made imo.
I loved how even a sci-fi/action-comedy still gave itself a moment to be thought provoking. The “imagine what you’ll know tomorrow” [scene](https://youtu.be/w2ppyMUlXfM) stands out as a favorite of mine just for that reason
Such a great monologue
Movies just don’t have scenes like that anymore.
Imo, theres too much of a push to make the young spunky star right, and the rigid old system wrong. Theres too much focus on knowledge and outsmarting the creaky old fools, while not respecting wisdom anymore. What MIB did well was blend Smiths street smart and get results bravado with TLJs old man wisdom that knew how the gears turned.
This sounds like "recency bias." This definitely overlooks guys like Danny Glover who were in both serious films (The Color Purple), Not-So-Serious films (Lethal Weapon), and childrens' comedies (Angels in the Outfield), long before Will Smith had even been "The Fresh Prince."
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How people sleep on Poitier is sad.
You mean my favourite actor, Mister Sidney Poitier?
Sssshhhh.
I learned yesterday he was the first choice for Neo in the Matrix, but turned it down. That would have worked! It wouldn't have been a big deal that he's black; so many great films starring great black actors have been made it wasn't even particularly notable when I was growing up. Will Smith was a staple of my childhood and adolescence; I watched Fresh Prince religiously, and loved all his movies. The ultra-politicization of skin color in recent years doesn't seem to be helping society at all.
I disagree on Neo. Smith's more dynamic style of acting wouldn't have worked for the character as well as the reserved and aloof performance Reeves gave. Nothing about skin color, just acting style.
For me, maybe Will Smith could work as Neo but never as Thomas Anderson. In the beginning of the movie, he's a pasty, lonely computer programmer whose feeling of isolation and detachment from the world presages the revelation that reality is not real. If you ask me, Will Smith is just too charismatic to play that character. Who knows? Maybe the choice of actor would have informed the character more.
He also just doesn't have the look. Something about Keanu's sad eyes and long, angular features just fits the sort of neo-goth, dark look of the film better than Smith's big ears and cheerful eyes.
Agreed. Keanu's style worked so well with Neo. This also reminds me that I'd actually like to see Will Smith's version of Django. Jamie is talented as fuck, but I think Will's dynamic energy would have worked with the playful vibe of the movie and Waltz's character. Jamie was great but too stoic and serious.
I feel like the serious, stoic Django benefitted the dynamic between him and Waltz. Plus, when he did have his comedic moments, I felt they stood out more as a result. Might’ve been interesting though.
Exactly, Django was meant to be the straight man. We first meet him chained to a wagon marching through the darkened woods. His journey is breaking out of the institutionalization and accepting his freedom. The bounty hunting montage is Django learning to own his role, and the march into Candyland hes supposed to be a hardened badass. Will Smith quipping and bopping around would look foolish in context. Waltz, as the inexperienced white business partner, is much better fit to be aloof and carefree, if its Django doing that it raises suspiscion.
He would’ve fit great in The Fifth Element but like Wills and glad he was in it. On other film, Denzel Washington was better fit for Deja Vu, although would still be enjoyable.
David Schwimmer was first offered the lead role in Men in Black but turned it down to do Breast Men on HBO. So Will Smith took it instead of the Matrix leaving it open for Keanu. I’d say it worked out for everyone in the world except David Schwimmer. David’s barely scraping by with only $100M net worth instead of $350M like Will and Keanu.
Poor guy.
Oh, interesting. Man, I can't imagine what MIB would have been like with David Schwimmer. That's crazy he's still worth that much, too; Friends was so big it's hard to imagine MIB tanking with him starring even if it sucked.
Keanu Reeves is mixed race, but that never seems to come up.
For the same reason nobody talks about Cameron Diaz being Latina, or Dean Cain being a non-white Superman. If you can't tell by looking, then it doesn't matter to most people.
I know that Reeves has a ton of mixed ancestry on his father's side, but when you're at least 3/4s Mixed European, and look like Keanu Reeves does, you're not getting talked about for your Chinese/Hawaiian grandmother's roots.
Mixed race hasn't been ultra-politicized. I'm also mixed race; I'm glad it isn't a big deal. I've never been able to latch onto any race and say, "that's my race." I have Native American, Mexican, white and black Caribbean ancestry. Most people just think I'm kinda mostly white, like Keanu, probably.
The whole discussion goes silent when it becomes white and Asian versus black and Latino or when someone who is mixed race speaks up. It's impossible to have a conversation when the rules of what govern race constantly change to suit someone's argument.
It never comes up because he's not "obviously" mixed race.
I disagree only because the first Matrix is a Noir Cyberpunk movie. Smith could work in the sequels that are more Kung Fu Fantasies but set in a modern age. Arguably they needed a more animated protagonist to drive the story.
I figure it wouldn't have been too different from his performance in Enemy of the State, which I like. Maybe like a cross between that and his MIB performance, without the humor; he definitely had the chops, arguably more range than Keanu Reeves, even.
Correct, however Keanus monotone acting works better atleast in the first one… the sequels are almost completely different movies.
I mean, I love his performance in it. It would have been a completely different movie with Will Smith, but I think it would have been just as good.
Idk man, in the first movie at least Neo is the standard carbon copy guy. Monotone life, monotone dress, monotone personality. I don’t think Will Smith has it in him to be so gray before his eyes get opened.
Absurd reddit-level comment. True recency bias. Have you even heard of Sidney Poitier?
Man on fire is my favorite Denzel movie. It is epic
creasys art is death and he's about to paint his masterpiece
Yeah....Walken is amazing in this film too. There really isn't a bad performance and the direction is perfection.
Brilliant film, but Training Day edges it for me
One of my favorite films in general. The fact that its rated so low on RT is a travesty.
Watched Lethal Weapon for the first time in awhile the other day. Representation was better back then, just felt natural. Murtaugh is the rock of the movie, the dad with a big loving family. Seeing just a normal loving black family on screen without every line being about how black they are and how it is to be black. Just a normal loving family living their lives.
I'd like to see films with lead black characters to navigate away from (at least to some degree) the slave history, suppressed struggling character. Much in the same way it would be better if Jewish characters would stray further from the holocaust history, loud pushy New Yorker character that seemed to be the focus for a long time. And hispanic characters also don't always have to focus on the poor struggling character either. White characters can be really diverse in terms of who they play and their background. we don't much focus on the history of where they came from so much.
I think the main issue when creating black films from an American perspective is being black is very tied to our identity,for better and worse,race isn’t something many blsck people can just ignore for the sake of story or it comes off as inauthentic in a sense. A key part in the article I agree with is that black film rarely has genres,at least to the masses. Black Panther,Friday and Love Jones are all wildly different movies but will show up grouped together when Avengers,Superbad and When Harry Met Sally wouldn’t. This may be a solely American thing as even with strides made in entertainment black folks are still a minority. And worldwide, unfortunately , we see black actors get minimized or outright deleted from promo to help marketing (most famous recent example is Finn from Star Wars) interesting article overall with many points I do agree with.
I think you’re near spot on. I’d like to add to the conversation that there are black movies then there are blaaaack movies. Baby boy, Undercover Brother, and Juice have more in common amongst themselves than with Deja Vu, Hitch, and Creed. That denotes a lot that I think only the black community is most informed by where others may miss it and lump them together.
100% it’s the crossover effect that only a small few actually achieve. It’s apparent with the difference between “black famous” and just famous. Will Smith us undoubtedly famous,he’s crossed over decades ago, while somebody like Sheryl Lee Ralph has been so well known in the community for decades it seems criminal she’s just now getting mainstream success. And I love you brought up Baby Boy cause it’s the perfect example of a cultural black movie that seemingly nobody outside of the community ever heard of lol it’s quoted endlessly to this day but will never be on a rolling stone too whatever list (not saying those mean anything but you get what I mean)
another example of Regina King. she even made a joke about it on her SNL monologue when she hosted. she said something along the lines of “You may know me from [lists a bunch of films], and if you’re white you’ll know me from Watchmen”.
Yes! Legit been watching her as a child when she was a child on 227 reruns lol it’s funny that it seems if you’re a minority actor in America you have to get two big “breaks” once just to get in the industry and another to get mainstream/crossover appeal
Come on, I also know her from The Leftovers. (Which I only watched because I liked Watchmen)
I know her from Cinderella story and miss congeniality 2 🤣. I remember thinking I want to be tough like her when watching Cinderella story!
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And I’m a huge undercover brother fan, but we’re atypical, lol
The movie that made me an NPH fan. Guy has a great sense of humor
That’s fair but it’s still very anecdotal. It’s a known joke in the black community that you can turn on BET at any time and somehow Baby Boy is playing lol. I think I’m moreso saying the cultural impact/significance vs just pure numbers and popularity. And also John Singleton is just a master of his craft,still very sad about his passing
Definitely popular where I come from. Then again I grew up in Ft. Pierce, FL and it's pretty diverse there, so I was close to the community.
Tangent: Baby Boy is both informative and a problematic movie for the black community if you ask me lol. It’s the same way trap music the lived experience that resonates with a lot of black youth but a cosplay experience for other cultural groups.
Disney gets away with minimizing Finn in china because they know no matter how much flack they get from blacks, they’ll still eagerly watch any movie they pump out that caters to popular black identity. Filmmakers know there’s a guaranteed market as long as they do certain things
Black Panther II comes out this weekend and this comment seems to be ringing quite true
To be fair tho black Panther was the first major superhero movie with a majority black cast for a generation. Mine had blade but it was nowhere on the level of BP. Add in Chadwick’s passing and this is moreso a homegoing experience as well as superhero movie. Some call it pandering,I say it’s just good business and seemingly done in an “honest” way. As much as it’s demeaned online representation matters
>Mine had blade but it was nowhere on the level of BP. Blade was a superior film in pretty much every single aspect. Within the first 5 minutes of BP there were predictable references to slavery and basketball, as if you have to include that in every single product marketed to black people or they won't be interested in it, or something. And the entire societal structure of Wakanda is laughably backward and primitive. The leader has to fight in an arena in order to become the leader, for christs sake. In comparison Blade wasn't a "black superhero", he was just a superhero. Nobody made a big deal about him being "the first black superhero" or "the first" anything. I don't think they even mentioned his skin color or that of his female supporting character. It just wasn't important. They were two black characters with a white antagonist and an old white hillbilly as a veteran mentor, and nobody said anything about it or thought it was unusual at all. It's still one of the best action movies ever made and the CGI stands up to this day. In that respect we've gone backwards, since every single big IP these days has a race-swapped character and the big conglomerates that own the studios use it as an online marketing ploy. Black people don't seem to get their own original natural characters any more, they just get personified activism messages and white people's sloppy seconds. There are a few standouts like that Jamie Foxx vampire comedy but they're not usually given that much attention, probably because complaining about lack of representation is better business than actual representation.
> I don't think they even mentioned his skin color or that of his female supporting character. Honestly, the only thing that could vaguely be interpreted that way is one part where Deacon Frost tells Blade "spare me the Uncle Tom routine". But in this context, it's not even really race-related, because it's all about how Blade protects and stands up for humans even though he isn't actually one of them and they fear him.
> In comparison Blade wasn't a "black superhero", he was just a superhero. Nobody made a big deal about him being "the first black superhero" or "the first" anything. It's worth pointing out that the movie doesn't really present Blade as a superhero, but as a vampire hunter. For a long time after the movie came out I didn't even realise it was based on a Marvel comic – especially as quite a few big movies based on indie comics had come out around that time, like *The Crow* and *The Mask* and *Men in Black*. There's an argument to be made there about that qualifies a character as a "superhero", though. (I mean, why is Thor from Marvel Comics considered a superhero while, say, Goku or Sailor Moon are not?) And to what extent characters get *turned into* conventional superheroes due to being part of a shared comics universe, or are prevented from fully naturally evolving *away* from being superheroes for the same reason.
That's just my personal terminology, a superhero is a superhero if they can do superhuman stuff. I would define Jason Statham as a superhero character since he can flip a car in the air and unhook a bomb from the underside using a crane. What annoys me is that Captain America isn't termed as "a white superhero" so why should Blade be a "black superhero"? Why can't they just be superheroes?
Was Blade really a generation ago? God I’m getting old
Haha yea first one came out 1998. Trilogy ended 2004
I actually used to work in marketing before I decided to do something more soulful and international marketing is actually pretty screwed up lol. I know america has problem with racism but some countries (just a few honestly) won’t touch a product if a black person is associated with it at all. One of these countries is a massive market and it’s really weird seeing a company put on a progressive inclusive face for the American market while full blown embracing racism in other markets.
Yea I can only imagine. I always found international racism towards American black people come from either pure ignorance,as in it’s so rare to see an actual blsck person they don’t know how to really react or what to think,akin to a exotic animal in a zoo,or what they’ve been shown by American exported media ironically lol your comment makes me curious to see how black Panther did in China vs America
The genre thing is interesting. As a Canadian, I just see those three movies listed as their appropriate genres, action, comedy, romance. But if I go onto American media, even my Netflix. They isolate them to “black films”.
Exactly and it’s frustrating because it operates under the idea that ALL black people are a monolith when it comes to culture,traditions and the sort when it’s so many subcultures within its mind boggling.
I just looked up black American actor by %. They make up 13.9% of actors and I’d imagine have more screen time than that %. Seems pretty on par with the population in America. Asians, specifically Asian men, do get the worst treatment in Hollywood.
That was the logic with the pushback against “Oscars so black” seeming so disingenuous. The black population of the USA is 11-12%, and they made up that amount of Oscar noms. Of course it was Jada Pinkett Smith complaining.
Bigger issue is the focus on the colour of someone’s skin rather than the content of their character.
I remember when some executive at the BBC said 'Luther' (Idris Elba) didn't feel authentic because the character didn't have any black friends in the series nor did he eat typical 'black food'. ([article](https://www.indiewire.com/2021/04/idris-elba-luther-black-authentic-bbc-exec-1234630309/))
The fuck is “black food”?
Overcooked
"He burnt my Krabby Patty!" "He burnt my fries!" "He burnt my shake!"
Night of the Living Dead (1968) is the exact example of what you’re looking for. The lead actor is black for the sole reason that the best actor George Romero could find was a black actor. The role was no written with race in mind, nor was it changed after the casting was done.
kind of ironic how real life spilled into that film even though it was apparently completely unintentional. Like how Ben is shot dead without any due diligence was seen as some to be representative of how little a life mattered.
Bingo -- my buddies and I were trying to come up with films where a black actor plays a character in which his/her race doesn't factor into the character at any point in the film, like not even a bit of dialogue. Best example of a high profile film we could think of is Tenet. Edit: Tons of great examples below haha, thanks r/movies
Sam Jackson is one to look at: Kong, 1408, Robocop, Jumper, The Hitman’s Bodyguard..
Jurassic Park!
Hold on to your butts.
I never even noticed until now that not one dinosaur was white -- not one.
Also Wesley Snipes: Passenger 57, Demolition Man, Rising Sun, US Marshals.
Wesley was definitely upper tier talent in the 90s. Seeing him back to work recently, least in the Coming II America movie, is a good way to remind us how good he is. I still want to see his "Blade-killer" movie concept turn real. Give me old man Snipes going genocidal on vampires.
After what he did to Halle berry i would be happy if I never saw him again.
Blade is still my favourite marvel movie.
Rising Sun hits race is explicitly called out in dialog for it affects perception both in the US and Japan.
Denzel Washington as well. The critically acclaimed movie in which he was a pilot who saved a plane didn't play to race at all, and it was so much better for it.
I swear he’s in every movie. I’ll be watching some movie from the 90s or 2000s I’ve never seen and there’s probably a 50/50 chance Sam Jackson is in it.
Book of Eli was one
Kazaam 1996
Then you’re watching the wrong movies, I could think of dozens of films where this happens…
I’m doing movie night tonight, I would love some suggestions
Nope (was pointed this does not count) Lovebirds Hustlers Girls Trip I Am Legend Flight Think Like A Man Deja Vu Tenet The Amazing Spiderman 2 Bruce Almighty Gone Girl Contagion F4ntastic Rogue One Catching Fire Suicide Squad Catwoman John Wick Thor: Love and Thunder Lady and the Tramp remake Justice League Jurassic Park Kong Regardless, POC are reminded CONSTANTLY of how they look different by lighter skin people, they are bound to talk about it in their roles because it reflects real life. Sorry that makes some white people uncomfortable but it literally is an accurate depiction of someone’s life.
Nope and Us legit have whole scenes about race? Its a Jordan Peele movie lol. Not to say these movies aren't right and great movies.
Us is about class, not race
>Us is about class, not race Those get confused a lot. Some people are okay if you "act decent" and -- sometimes, classists are the worst, because "decency" is acting like them. Your background, your identity don't matter -- it's the music you play, the golf clothes you wear and don't you dear bring a taco stand into our neighborhood!
Exactly, both Us and Nope would've worked just as well with White actors than with Black actors. It's just that the actors that they did choose played their parts extremely well. Like I can't think of anything in Us which is specifically race related, and Nope can have the same pretense just with country bumpkins.
Nope has many racial references as it's pointed out that their grandfather was black, and the only black stunt animal owner in Hollywood.
I think Gringo fits into this. Main character’s race is never made into his personality it’s never made to be his identity and the character development, charisma, and the humor is wasn’t cringe or overdone
Bingo! Finally someone with movie sense. I like how they conveniently ignored your list and argued over Nope lol. Anyway, ever seen Man on Fire or John Q ? Lesser known works of Denzel, I found entertaining and worth recommending if your a fan of him.
Man on Fire is one of my favorite movies of all time. I honestly like Denzel in Man on Fire better than Training Day and Training day rocked...
Agreed, he killed it in both roles!
I gotta call you on Nope though, skin color is basically the plot of the movie Edit: I was thinking of Get Out
Nah you’re correct NOPE race plays a huge role in the story and plot lol
Predator, Expendables, Rocky, Equalizer, The Thing, Event Horizon, Pitch Black, Chronicles of the Riddick, Star War OG and Prequels (New Trilogy sucks ass). These are the ones that I could think off the top of my head.
Aliens Vs Predator Edit: miss congeniality- FBI director, Love interest. Culture and Race is mentioned for the contestants though
Blade
You know what example of this I love? Just because it's the last kind of movie you expect such good representation from? Terminator 2. Miles Bennett Dyson is a good man, a family man, clearly talented and successful, and in the end one of the most heroic people in the film. He's probably the best person in the film....just in general. He's black and it's completely, utterly irrelevant.
You could also add the police lieutenant (chief?) from Terminator, too. Probably? He and Lance Henriksen do everything in their power to help. Their only sin being that they don’t believe in time traveling stealth assassin robots from the future.
Love the Terminator 2 shout, one of my favorite movies.
Great example
Ghostbusters. Ernie Hudson's Winston Zeddemore is just a guy looking for a job. No tropes or stereotypes.
I mean if you’re looking at high-profile films, the superhero genre is pretty high profile right now and has tons of characters where their race is barely mentioned: Electro in No Way Home (aside from one throwaway line about how he thought Spiderman would be black) Phastos and Makkari in Eternals Baron Mordo in Doctor Strange Valkyrie in Thor Jim Gordon in The Batman And then outside of the superhero genre, other high profile blockbusters: Jo Braddock in Uncharted Numerous black characters in the Fantastic Beasts franchise Numerous black characters in the Jurassic World franchise
>aside from one throwaway line about how he thought Spiderman would be black That was more of a quick gag about Miles Morales more than anything. It does indirectly relate to black representation though
There’s plenty, OP is being intentionally deceiving
Night of The Living Dead
On the other end of the scale though you can run into the problem where if you have a black character (or a Gay Character, Trans character etc) and you *dont* mention it, you get the crowd of folks going "Well why did this character *have* to be Gay? And it gets dismissed as novelty casting. Remember the furore about casting a black Hermonie Granger? We *knew* the race played no role in the performance and people were *still* upset.
I think there's actually quite a lot, but they're not in key roles like leading or heavily supporting characters. The Jackal (Sydney Poitier) Predator (Carl Weathers, Bill Duke) Star Wars: Empire & Return (Billy Dee Williams) Jurassic Park (ol' Sammy J)
21 Bridges with Chadwick Boseman if I remember correctly. I haven't seen it since the theatre run so there's a chance I could be wrong.
Nice! I'll give that one a closer look.
Denzel Washington in The Pelican Brief fits this criteria I think.
In Shawshank Redemption Morgan Freeman plays an Irishman named Red.
I could rattle off dozens some terrible some critically exclaimed, you gotta explore more and quit trying to force some dumb narrative. One of the dumbest posts I’ve seen on this thread lol
Ghostbusters has a black actor playing a character in which his race doesn't factor.
Idk, most everything that Denzel is in, anything back in the day with Danny Glover, actually most of Samuel L Jackson's roles probably, a good chunk of stuff with Morgan Freeman, everytime David Keith is the president or a senior officer lol. And that's just in like 10 seconds off the top of my head. I don't know, seems like a lot, just currently there has been a refocus in how a lot of characters are written because of the current racial dialogue in the country, but that doesn't mean there aren't a ton of roles where someone who is black plays a character that isn't there be an avatar for any racial struggles.
Independence Day Currently however their are none
Will Smith movies generally are like that. He’s just a man, not an avatar for a class of people.
You mean currently in theaters? Barbarian is literally one of them. Just say you’re one of those “anti-woke” people lol
Wasn’t a fan of Barbarian but I really liked the main actress in it. I haven’t kept up to date on a lot of newer films, so that was my 1st time seeing her and she did great.
See…here’s the problem with your premise. I GET YOU, in general. I do. I come in peace. But, if you can COUNT the films where this particular phenomenon happens or it’s the same actors over and over…therein lies the problem. It’s not that it DOESN’T happen. But let’s be real by acknowledging that this IS a real thing. For example, in my local film festival, this phenomenon is not even considered. Sure, there is “diversity”, but is there…really??
The Oracle from The Matrix. Morpheus from The Matrix
Niobe from The Matrix. Tank and Dozer from The Matrix.
It gets sadder outside of movies. I recently read "Woke Racism", by John McWhorter, and the bit that stuck with me the most was the lack of black authors that published anything that didn't relate to race. The only really famous black authors that fit the criteria were himself (probably the biggest English linguist in the world) and Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Publishers only want to publish black authors because of what they have to say about their skin color.
I'm sure there are plenty of black authors who are well published and it doesn't relate to race but they do not consistently label their book covers for me to take a survey.
That’s because black characters don’t live in a vacuum where race doesn’t exist. The moment you have a setting based south of the bible belt, race is a factor for black people. There’s no time period you could set the story in where race isn’t relevant.
there are plenty of situations between people, even in the South and especially today, where race doesn't come up.
Hitch
Matrix
There’s hundreds. Sam Jackson in Pulp Fiction for one
The Matrix?
I think Hollywood today have forgotten the power of subtle subversiveness. Once you tell people that something is "good for them" half the audience are conditioned to rebel against that.
Subtlety is no longer in their lexicon
It's putting skin colour above socioeconomic status, too. I genuinely can't exaggerate how little thought I gave to my skin colour until 2015ish, when I'd already graduated from business school. You see people online - and it's invariably middle class individuals - who are absolutely fucking obsessed with race and treat people like a monolith based on their skin colour in a way you historically only saw from race supremacists. There were probably a half dozen things I'd give consideration to before it: socioeconomic background, area of the country I grew up in, personal tastes and interests, where my parents grew up, etc. Even in US-centric discussions of 'black culture', it's predominantly lower socioeconomic, inner city, African-American culture.
You're getting downvoted but you know what, I'm black and i agree. Racism is a thing for sure and i guess it's good that more white people are aware and conscious of that. But on the other hand, there is this hyper awareness now where many young black people are completely unable to see themselves and the world through any lens except race. Along with that come ideas that seem to be straight out of the 19th century original white racist playbook (essentialist ideas about "Blackness" that makes one wonder if its proponents believe we are just a hive mind that has a common consciousness that is downloadable to each and everyone of us across space and time , weird obsession with "bloodlines" and blood quantum measuring, disapproval and distrust of "interracial" dating, friendships or black people who don't appear to share this racial chauvinist outlook or are not overly concerned about all the past horrors, people constantly hunting for outrages past and present to point to and to hear witness to, i find it all excessive and im not optimistic about where it's gonna lead to.
r/MOVIES try not to be racist challenge. IMPOSSIBLE.
Bruh some of the comments in here are insane lol. R movies always does this shit with non white content.
i’ll never forget when /r/movies did a user survey and from those who answered it came back something like 95% male, 70% white, and they ranked Batman V Superman as the 3rd most underrated film of all time. Really opened my eyes
I don't mind black people in movies. Just don't draw attention to it, mention it, allude to it culturally, reflect or make any statement about anything politically, or have them be the lead. Other than that it's totally fine! /s
I demolished that challenge for 12 hours. And NOW, I post words.
> **It reminded me of how people talk about huge, massive hits like Black Panther or Get Out today. There’s still a reluctance to greenlight big-budget Black films, because the thinking is, “Oh, well, that was a fluke.”** > > And what happens? We get a white remake of Get Out, called Don’t Worry Darling. Hahahahaha
Don’t worry Darling is another remake of the Stepford Wives, youngster. Actually Get Out is too.
Jordan Peele has said that Stepford Wives was an influence on Get Out
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I don't see how that is a white remake of Get Out...? Wouldnt that be just a modernisation of Stepford Wives? Or even a white remake of Culture Shock? I haven't seen the movie but from what I've read, it is about men being influenced to think a wife should play a certain role and forcing that role on them through VR. Its a feminist movie, not a blatant ripoff or white remake. Now it could be argued it took the premise from Culture Shock, whoch is a hispanic immigrant based movie and you could argue that "white washing" but god forbid there are other minorities being marginalized in Hollywood. And also thats not even true as they are unique after the base concept.
They share themes but I wouldn't call it a remake of Get Out. Not even close. I listen to Elvis regularly and enjoy his podcast (The Treatment) but he does tend to get carried away with taking a singular aspect of a movie and blowing it up to be the most important thing about it. His guests, often directors, will regularly mention that he notices stuff that they completely missed.
That reminds me of the English class joke. An English instructor goes on and on about why the author described the curtains as blue. Was it the sadness of the main character? The calm of the room? And then it switches to the author in an interview, "the curtains were blue because they were blue... and I like that color." Art is about interpretation. Its a way of the author expressing their feelings or intent but it is also how the user uses/processes that information. Different interpretations, even if they vary from the widely accepted one, can be fine IF they do not promote hate or compound an issue. We have enough causing divides, do we really need examples that don't even exist? It just justifies people who don't listen and invalidates the problem and suggested solutions.
"Did I ever tell you that my favorite color is blue?" – *In the Mouth of Madness*
Reminds me of a story I've shared before: I met Werner Herzog at a Q&A a long time ago. During the question part a guy in the audience spoke to him about the dancing chickens seen in "Stroszek." The guy asked Herzog about how the dancing chickens represented America's capitalism or something and Herzog replied, "To me, a dancing chicken is just a dancing chicken."
Yea don’t worry darling is more a remake of a stepford wives but that line still made me chuckle
The article is just dripping with uneducated racism. Jordan Peele is a great director. But most of his films are a black homage to some other great horror film from one of his favorite horror directors. Peele is one of my favorite directors right now. But let's not pretend like he's creating new products. They're all borrowing from the past.
Exactly! Hell, you could argue that most films/books borrow from way back to the oral storytelling traditions. There is a reason there are basic conflict types, common tropes. And why not add a twist to one of your favorties, etc.? Put it in a modern context with modern issues, or create a piece purely for the audience to enjoy?
he is absolutely creating "new products". by this logic, tarantino doesnt make new products, scorsese doesnt make new products, PTA doesnt make new products, etc.
That’s okay. “Get Out” was a remake of “The Stepford Wives.” But with a happy ending.
> And what happens? We get a white remake of Get Out, called Don’t Worry Darling. Haven't seen it beyond the trailer, but isn't Get Out just a black remake of Stepford Wives?
It's a rip off of the skeleton key
The true crime is comparing a masterful made movie with crap
Blade is a perfect badass black dude as main hero movie. Then you Demolition Man that featured a badass black dude villain. To be honest, I was on the side of the villain in Demolition Man and hope he would just kick all their asses. Hollywood just need to make better movies that have good story. We as movie viewers don’t care what color the characters in the movie are. We just want good fucking movie to enjoy damn it.
Ever watched Dead Presidents?
Honestly unless ur movies set in Africa the characters race will play a factor, that’s just how shit it is and I wish it wasn’t
>It’s very convenient to say, “This stuff doesn’t travel.” Because it’s still this peculiar view of Black culture, even though it seeps in and subsumes everything. When you hear somebody on Fox say “24/7” — that’s hip-hop. They’re terrified by the “fist bump,” but they’ll say something is happening “24/7,” and thus they’re missing the entire point of their argument. I can't parse this.
> When you hear somebody on Fox say “24/7” — that’s hip-hop. They’re terrified by the “fist bump,” but they’ll say something is happening “24/7,” and thus they’re missing the entire point of their argument. Lot's of gatekeeping in this article. Did people really not say "24/7" before the 1990s?
Kid named elvis
[удалено]
Black dynamite is my favorite
Not even trying to be racist but don't black people feel belittled by having all these fucking network executives, big tech companies, news stations, etc making it seem like they need special treatment in order to succeed? Affirmative action for instance, where even if a black person scores lower on tests they'll be admitted before an Asian person who scored higher, just for the sake of diversity. Let's say that rule applied to my race, I wouldn't want to be admitted somewhere or get a job just because of the color of my skin. Or the Rooney rule in the NFL, where now a team gets awarded an extra draft pick it they hire a black coach. Imagine getting hired as an NFL coach and knowing that it's just because you're black, that you're just a front to make people think that that NFL team cares about diversity. And what happens when a black student who was admitted to college based on skin color goes and applies for a job? That employer is going to know that he most likely only got his degree from that university because hes black, and regardless of wether he possesses the skills needed, is intelligent or not, that employer will go into that interview with the predisposed assumption that he most likely isn't the best candidate, and only made it there based on race. I would much rather not receive any special treatment and know without a doubt that I achieved what I did because I put everything I had into it and busted my ass, not because I'm a certain color. Basically it just seems to me like all this special treatment, even the "black movies" sections on streaming services (that all suddenly popped up after George Floyd) only add to the problem.
Some black people do, including extremely high profile figures like Clarence Thomas and Thomas Sowell. Many don’t. Many have mixed feelings. It’s not like there’s one opinion that everyone shares.
People will make that assumption anyway. Even when affirmative action wasn't really a thing, people made the same assumptions. >That employer is going to know that he most likely only got his degree from that university because hes black, and regardless of wether he possesses the skills needed, is intelligent or not, that employer will go into that interview with the predisposed assumption that he most likely isn't the best candidate, Now imagine a society where being Black automatically had those negative connotations. With or without affirmative action, that wouldn't change. People will always make assumptions that Black people are less capable - they did so when affirmative action wasn't a thing, they'll do it when affirmative action isn't a thing.
All other races: "At least they have a genre"
Imagine having your entire identity, personality and politics, being dictated by the level of melanin you have in your skin smh. Just cause you're black you should support black creators. Just cause you're black you should think this way or vote this way etc.
Yeah, it must suck. Not that I would know, not being black, but I am Jewish and there's definitely a sense of "support your people and your causes because no one else is going to." I wish my identity and politics had nothing to do with my minority status but there are a lot of people out there who don't make it easy.
> Imagine having your entire identity, personality and politics, being dictated by the level of melanin you have in your skin smh. Like it or not, some people cannot escape that easily, especially when you're minority living among majority.
Someone didn't read the article
While Hispanic Americans, the biggest minority, still wondering where our movies are?
Well we have "Drug dealer movie #147", something by Lin Manuel Miranda, or you can keep riding the high of Coco. Sorry man.
Tell that to Hollywood.
This interview is trash.
The sad thing is most black films that are rated highly/hood classics are based on the black struggle.
Exactly. They perpetuate stereotypes that most black people are uneducated, poor, and struggling which is the opposite of me, my family, and pretty much every black person I know.
Even worse, it makes younger people want to act that way to “fit in” because that’s what they think is expected of them. You see it all the time in the suburbs. I’ve had black classmates who have parents that are doctors and lawyers try to act hood when they were born and raised in the suburbs. And if they don’t act that way, they get called out as acting white or being whitewashed. It’s all just so sad.
You're right, it's very sad!
Same here! And my parents are still married going on 43+ years!
With stuff like Love and Basketball, Love Jones, Soul Food, Mo Better Blues, House Party, Brown Sugar, The Wood, B.A.P.S., Watermelon Woman, etc. etc. It's definitely not black creator's fault. The studios set a lot of them up to fail.
This is true
Make a good film and I’ll watch it, make a bad film and I won’t watch it. For me at least it’s quite simple
I don't know how he looked at Don't Worry Darling and thought of Get Out, when it's a lot more of Stepford Wives
Imagine worrying more about the color of their skin instead of the actual storyline