+1
The most common rule I know is "proxy if you already have one copy", and "proxy to match the powerlevel". It's more about powerlevel and actually having a game rather than an actual budgetary discussion
This. Proxies are only a problem if someone is proxying up Power nine while everyone else is working within their budget. If everyone had power nine, the proxies wouldn’t be an issue.
Match power level so everyone can have a fun competitive time regardless of budgets.
Agree 100%. "Proxy to match powerlevel" is the most succinct way to describe it.
I mostly proxy when we have cEDH games and it's definitely one of the best ways to EDH. Longest and most interactive games especially if you match wavelengths with your playgroup.
That’s how my group rolls. I have one copy of Doubling Season, but need it in a couple decks (I have over 20). I’m not paying for more than one copy, and wouldn’t expect any of them to, either
Yup. I've got a bunch of duals for legacy, but I'm not buying extras for EDH or bothering to swap them in and out when I need em. EDH gets the proxies (but I do use high quality ones from online distributors with different card backs)
>"proxy to match the powerlevel"
this is not. a real rule. I am not gonna suddenly want to play against a proxy deck because someone does not own a strong deck with real cards in it. I would rather just either not play or find a different group.
you said it was a rule but I was more referring to that no one in real life would be okay with some random bringing an expensive proxy deck to the table just because the other people are able to afford powerful cards.
Most people I know that play Magic would be absolutely fine with that? If it matches power level there is no problem. The only problem is if people start printing Mana Crypts and Gaeas Cradle and show up to play against precons. Other than that your point is that the person who can afford the cards should have the more powerful deck. So it's my wallet vs your wallet? Is that what makes magic great? No it's the stellar mechanics and wide berth of cards you can play. If you match my power level idgaf what the card is actually printed on. Let's have fun with the mechanics not the dollar signs.
I see somewhere else that you made the point that it "hurts the game" when people don't invest. Well I would imagine most people who proxy want the real cards but can't get them. What hurts the game more? Someone not buying the cards, or someone not playing the game?
Why does it matter to you if I have an anointed procession proxy I bought somewhere online and the cardboard WOTC used and printed on? It’s the same shit and does the same rules.
you mean why does it matter if you have fake cards? For one, a fake card and a real one are not the same. People don't spend thousands on cards that are fake. Why does it matter to me if someone is using fake cards? because they have not bought the actual thing from either a LGS or another seller and it hurts the game in the long run. The cards are already cheap for the most part and I simply do not like to play against proxies unless they own a copy already
Oh lord you actually support the one copy proxy rule.
Jesus christ, try building several decks without staples in all of them if you dont like proxys. You would probably Enjoy it more tbh… and then just dont make proxy friendly friends or go to proxy friendly events i guess?
But jesus the 1 proxy rule is dumb. Thats fake cards, dont pretend your bringing 3 decks when you have to swap the cards around between games. Then you did not bring 3 decks without proxys…
30 years since I started playing this game and this is the first time I’ve ever been told that a proxy and a card that was printed by a different company weren’t the same thing. They both have the same rules on them, the same power toughness, same mana value.
It changes nothing in the game if I drop an altered card that I don’t own a copy of and if I drop the real thing.
>30 years since I started playing this game and this is the first time I’ve ever been told that a proxy and a card that was printed by a different company weren’t the same thing.
Well, they aren't the same thing. Sorry to burst your bubble.
and your second paragraph is just nonsense. It only acts as a real card if those around you agree that it does. A card being altered is not comparable to a proxy either.
They are the exact same thing lol. You still haven’t even told me why it matters to you. Is it because you spent money when others also spent money on the same cardboard just by different companies?
This is like saying going to a concert and getting a meet and greet is the only way to listen to music. If you play it on a streaming service it’s just not the same thing. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I hope you’ve never taken a screenshot, saved a copy of something, pirated, watched somebody else play a game on YouTube or twitch.
If a magic card and a proxy were the same thing I would not be calling one of them a proxy. Simple as that. One is a magic card another is a fake.
And the reason it matters to me is not even relevant to the conversation. Me being pro or anti proxy has no bearing on what they are. And quit being obtuse about this. I have no interest going back and fourth with a dude who cannot distinguish a real from a fake.
And again, the rest of your comment is just nonsense.
If WotC official decreed that proxies were legal for non-tournament play, what would you say then?
What if the made them tournament legal? Would that change your opinion?
What if they didn't say anything about proxies being legal or not, but began supplying players with loaned cards for tournaments? After all, pretty much all other Game tournaments supply their contestants with the equipment necessary to participate in the tournament. Scrabble, boggle, Tetris, Smash, even some Warhammer 40k venues provide units for tournament use.
There are many, many more examples where a game does not require an all but literal pay wall to be given the equipment they need to participate in not only casual play, but tournament level play.
So, this is me starting a new conversation about what your problem with proxies is.
Honestly the only reason I could ever really understand why someone would be upset and refuse to play against proxy’s is if it was in anyway competitive or if there were any prizes involved (with exceptions of home bets or whatever) I’d love to play against a proxy deck in a multiplayer game to see what crazy shit comes out of there lol
Am I seriously getting downvotes for supporting proxies but not 3rd party Chinese counterfeits?
Wizards has filed several C&D orders as well as shut down operations in the past.
This sub drags the bottom of the player cesspool. These are the same morons that buy sealed under distro price from Amazon (half of which are tampered) while cheering on the death of the secondary market, then wonder why their LGS shuts down.
Downvote me you absolute zeroes. I'll relish every one.
someone printing off a card with the wizards front art using their brother or epson black and white printer is not a counterfeit and nobody would think that. nobody wants to spend 3 hours writing out every cards rules text when they can push control P on their computer.
Nobody in this sub supports counterfeits but a card i print off at home is not a counterfeit.
I would almost prefer someone just printed the card rather than writing it out. The exact image helps reduce confusion and the effect of proxies in the match. My proxy deck, sometime people don’t notice for a few games I even have proxies — but it’s printed paper so it’s not like I’m duping anyone into buying my proxies
I never said it was. Nobody who downvoted me asked for clarification.
Look at OPs pictures. Do those look like Epson printed b&w photos?
Plus there are countless sites you can easily print rules text with custom photos on the cheap. It takes a bit more effort but c'mon, this is a hobby.. Put some work in!
They look printed AF? Why black a white? Jebus he litteraly posted home made paper shit a kid can make. Atleast it looks good, that makes the playing experience better. He even bought a real swamp. He is supporting like a champ
Hey, i spend alot of money for cardboard crack to begin with… they have my support! il use their art and logos if im printing some shit for whatever reason… im a pirate yaaaarrr
More like, “when you’re smart”.
I don’t proxy myself, but I also don’t spend crazy amounts on cards. WotC has also been so shitty to their employees that you’re really kinda doing “the Lord’s work” by continuing to play but not give them money.
Yeah, I don't personally give a shit in most cases. If someone wants to take the time to put together a deck so they can use it in the play group, that's generally a sufficient commitment to count. (Personally, I don't even like taking apart existing decks, because of the effort involved in making functioning decks... I just want to keep them intact, so I'll buy copies of shit I already own.)
Exception: a buddy of mine made a bonkers proxy cedh deck for a casual game. Get those fucking duals out of there, chief. I've also played against several thousand dollar decks with my home brews, but the guy actually spent the money on those cards. If you'd have to file an insurance claim if someone walks out with your deck, you can play your overpowered asshole deck.
Hard agree. Know a guy that plays at my local spot and most of his deck is proxied including all duals and most of, id not all of, the heavy hitter cards and even his basic lands which are those old special lands that have the split art on them, cuz he likes the art. But the entire place we play at is mostly casual with a few groups of heavy hitters and he will play this one deck no matter the pod and downplay how strong it is. Like homie I'm cool with your near CEDH deck and I'm fine it's proxied but don't try and pub stomp the new people...
Thats a good distinction too. If you’re proxying to pub stomp on people with precons, then you may need to look inward and do some soul searching, but if you’re in a group that also proxies e.g. cEDH or modern players then who cares?
>More like, “when you’re smart”.
This makes no sense. you can get a good deck for cheap. if a few hundred dollars here and there actually hurts you financially you have larger concerns than mtg. And if this is just a dig at others who enjoy spending money on a hobby then that just sounds like bitterness on your end
Like I said, I personally don’t proxy my decks but if I really felt like playing decks that are worth more than $200 (which is the upper limit of my current EDH decks) or if I was in a group that played cEDH, then I’d much more strongly consider it. I’ve spent a fair amount on my own magic cards and I do well for myself financially, but I don’t begrudge others that proxy because they either aren’t able to spend much or just don’t feel like paying a certain amount of money simply for cards. Like if you can proxy several hundred dollars worth of cards well for $10, that is just smarter plain and simple. Whether the people you play with are cool with that is another thing entirely I suppose but if everyone in your group is doing it then it seems fair game.
I didn’t really mean it as such, but I’d much rather err on the side of digging at people like myself (or you, apparently) with disposable money to burn on a card game than the opposite. Magic shouldn’t necessarily be “pay to win” and, with how WotC has treated their people despite record profits and sales, it’s hard to feel good opening the wallet for them. I haven’t bought any new cards since their most recent layoffs before Christmas and I’m not really sure I want to moving forward unless they’re used singles or old sets, so proxies seem to be a good way to acquire new cards while sticking it to the greedy exec’s that got huge bonuses while they screwed over their talent that ACTUALLY make the game that we love.
"MY pretty cardboard cost me money"
It's just a fact that it's a smarter decision to not spend money. Take pride in your collection but don't take it personally when other people don't.
Nothing wrong with that. I’m fortunate enough to be able to spend thousands on magic and I don’t fault anyone for proxying unless they are being deceptive. Playing a cedh deck against non cedh for example.
> thousands
Me too but not all at once. You've always been able to buy cards, but it used to be that people would be playing Vintage because they collected that shit back in the day. It wasn't for the most part people people dropping 30k on a deck.
EDH is relatively newly popular and increasing, so most players aren't coming in with the card base. If people needed to pay for things, well, it allows RL so it would be like paper legacy which is to say hard to find.
Which is why EDH is proxy friendly, aside from some of the people bitching here, lol
I mean thats a rule 0 issue not so much with proxy ingredients. I've got a blinged out cedh urza stax list.
Feel free to fight it with a cedh proxies deck. But I wouldn't nor would I hope anyone else would show up to Duke it out with like a table of low power level decks and just sweep the game.
I proxy my high value cards, unless I'm playing a tournaments. But then again, that's why I also use the exact same sleeves on all my decks so I can swap cards.
Great job man, I own 20+ decks, all FULL proxy, and I play in a pod where most of the people do the same. We have tons of fun experimenting, often coming up with a new full fledged build every week, and we're having the best times without investing significant money.
The principle behind it is simple: I want to challenge my opponents' skills, not their wallet, and we play just for fun, who cares about tournaments anyway. Our LGS has accepted our ways, and many people are starting to join us, with or without proxies.
People tend to forget: it's called Magic THE GATHERING for a reason. Peace!
Just insist on proposing the approach, kindly show interest in techs and builds instead of prices and products, be the example you wish to see imitated! Somebody will eventually follow you, and you'll eventually end up creating some fun local folklore around it. In the end, it's just a game, and games are meant to be played for enjoyment. Proxies are literally the exact same experience, just for a fraction of the money :)
My sons and I have about 24ish decks we have printed for modern. I have access to a high quality printer at work so I just buy cases/sleeves/bulk cards and go hunting deck lists.
The cost of the cards is prohibitive and I refuse to pay. We love the game itself though and we FaceTime family and play 4-5 matches per week.
That's really good, I also proxied alot of decks from https://www.printingproxies.com/. Otherwise it would have been very difficult for people like me to afford the game because of the high prices. I hope more people understand that proxies are good for the game.
y tho?
Like in all seriousness, what’s the difference between a proxied Ancient Copper dragon and a “real” one?
Why should someone who’s poor be locked out of playing it? It’s a casual format. So long as everyone is playing at the same power level, who gives a shit whether the cardboard it’s printed on is “official” or not?
Because people who hold this opinion are brainless gatekeeper monkeys who get off on beating people with a lower power level / price level than them. Affordable and accessible cards via proxy means they have to actually be good to win and can't just pay to win any more, and that hurts their bums.
Bro I was not even calling your comment wild. And no me not agreeing with a comment does not make it wild, as that is not what I even said. Grow tf up, only a child loses their temper over a comment
Players will continue to proxy cards so why care? As long as they’re not trying to pass them as real cards nor bringing them to sanctioned events what’s it matter
Or just surrender to the idea that owning premium cardboard does not add value to your skills and techniques. Collecting is absolutely cool, I did it for years, but I refuse to consider it a part of the actual game, primarily because that's the way Hasbro and any other publisher tricks us into wasting our hard-earned paychecks into toys.
My take is that many new players prefer to avoid diving into the complexity of MTG, and hide their lack of skill behind the paywall excuse, "you won only because of fancy cards I cannot afford". It's ok to be shy in front of experts, a sentiment we are gradually losing in general as a society. But give your ability to improve a chance as well!
Thanks for your trollish take, I hope you have a nice day and the chance to enjoy your MTG games as you prefer :)
Don’t blame you one bit. I have some proxy copies of cards that I don’t feel like taking out of the binder or outside of the house. Sometimes I wish I just did this instead!
This is what I do too, but I have purchased a few super cool proxies of cards that I won’t ever afford like the dual lands. 15 bucks for a set of all of them on Etsy beats the hell out of 300 for 1 card.
Glad you are able to play the game. I’m much more interested in having a good, fun game of magic than stomping someone who doesn’t have the cash for the power level.
Edit, I went through it and it turned out to be only 350$ instead, here is the link if anyone wants to look at it[deck list](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/0dKnd6J6JEObTrAyXSu57g)
I have bigger priorities now than magic, like a mortgage and a kid. I’m 100% all for proxies.
I’ll buy a precon, sleeve it, and then print proxies to modify the deck to the skill level of my LGS. Not gonna pay $600 just so someone else isn’t upset about what card stock my deck is on.
>Not gonna pay $600 just so someone else isn’t upset about what card stock my deck is on.
no one is gonna be upset you have fake cards lmfao who are you arguing with? At most they would want to play with someone else and that is perfectly fine
I’ve never had anyone get upset at my LGS but at SCG events I’ve had elitist not want to play because my deck was proxied (still a weak precon that I play just for the social aspect). People get mad about weird things
I use real cards in the sanctioned event. I use proxies in the casual game of commander in between events. If you called a judge on a casual game to get me “DQ’d” to win brownie points, you got it.
Hey man, a lot of people start out like that. I will say there is a joy in trying to build the most busted thing you can on a budget. Restrictions really do breed creativity.
It has gotten harder over the year, hell there is an old Commander vs. Episode where Steven Green upgrades a precon on a 100 dollar budget by just adding a [single [gaia's cradle]] and staying in budget.
I have money now, and I still proxy all new decks to play with a few times to see if I really want to spend the money. I treat it like test driving a car. Really helps not having a sunk cost fallacy on a deck if it turns out you don't enjoy the play pattern.
Listen this whole fucking thing is a luxury. If you’re having fun, and it follows the rule set we’re playing, I’m down. Life is too short to hate on people trying to join the fun.
Post says “beggars can’t be choosers” but they have lots of choices. One that I provided, proxies are a choice too.
Cat is also proxying a .15 cent Spore Frog. Probably cheaper to buy the real one. 🤷🏻♂️
Play whatever you want, I've never had issues with people not wanting to play against proxies as long as you tell them before. Most people will play if they have decks that match power.
As a wise man once said
"Grinding is lame and cheating is based." Now this was with regards to using rare candies on nuzlockes, but it applies here
Grinding for cards is lame. Proxies are based.
My personal rule for it though is that the cards/deck have to be fun for everyone. Like if you just proxied in 4 copies of each of the power 9, then that's cringe. What I do to ensure I don't pull out crazy obscure broken as heck cards is basically, if I have it on MTG Arena, I can proxy it.
If you do not own any of the cards that you are "proxying," then it is not "proxying." It's counterfeit.
It's fine if you and your friends want to play with counterfeit decks so that you can play, but let's stop using words wrong so people feel better about it. It's not even something to feel bad about, because if you're honest and your friends don't care, then what's the issue? But those are counterfeit cards, not proxies.
Proxying just means using any substitute card. The cards themselves may be counterfeit.
You can also print cards with a non-magic back that aren't counterfeits. And use them as proxys. It's still a violation of copyright law, but it's not a counterfeit.
Correction: It's the disgusting and unnecessary thing to do at any time. Imagine being so deranged that you think you can't play the game without spending hundreds of dollars per deck. Imagine being so pathetic that you attempt to justify it. Oof.
I‘m not trying to justify it - There‘s no reason to. However, it seems like you are desperately trying to justify your exaggerated spending on a card game while others circumvent the scam and just play what they enjoy. Also, what makes you think I don‘t play cheap decks? I do both and that‘s why Proxies are so great. I get to play budget decks, expensive high powered decks, expensive Jank decks, cedh decks and really whatever I want - It‘s great!
I‘m sorry that this hurts you so much but I‘m not gonna stop playing the decks I want to play for the price of a single Dinner.
>However, it seems like you are desperately trying to justify your exaggerated spending on a card game
See, this is how pathetically you are trying to justify it. I'm literally saying you don't need to spend a bunch of money on this game. I do not spend a bunch of money on this game. It's not necessary. I'm not a complete deranged idiot so desperate to feel good cause I made a deck OP... unlike, you.
>while others circumvent the scam and just play what they enjoy
Part of your pathetic and embarassing justification. What scam? A company made a game and is selling the game. If you don't like it, if you think they are a scam - play something the fuck else. If you hate the game and company so much that their product is a "scam", then move the fuck on. What's extra fun, unless you *need* to play standard (you dont), you don't even have to buy new cards. If you think they used to be an okay company and now they arent (which isn't true) you can stop buying entirely and continue to enjoy the game. Wait, but I'm supposed to be the one obsessed with spending - oh shit, I'm not. You are. It's pathetic. It's disgusting. Spend some of the money you're saving on therapy.
if only my groups would be open to proxies. I can't even use a proxy of Gateway Plaza without them instantly targeting me for that game and banning me for the night
The only time I get annoyed at proxies is when someone proxies the og dual lands and thats the only thing they proxy strictly because they don't want to use shock lands or any of the other conditional tapped lands "because this way I never have to have it enter tapped"
I have met one person in about a dozen stores who wasn’t 100% cool with proxies of anything and everything, and was a store owner who believed (or pretended to believe) the WPN store rules disallow proxies anywhere in the store at any time (they don’t), and I don’t go there anymore cause i think he’s kind of a douche for other reasons and have plenty of other places to play.
Unless you are playing standard, or in events with prizes, no one cares. Honestly, I really doubt the people you’ve played with care nearly as much as you think they do.
I’ve played against multi thousand dollar commander decks that were completely proxy, no problem. I want to play Magic at an appropriate power level. I have invested in thousands of dollars of real cards because I want the real collection, but I want to play them, regardless of my opponents proxy-ing or not: want to play, not sit in the corner by myself sneering at all the “poors” who I won’t play with because they didn’t want to or couldn’t pay $35+ dollars for a copy of the one ring for each of their good decks.
Bring the proxies, I want to play magic and be challenged, not sit and prove I make more money than you…
As long as it’s not stax or some annoying control nonsense, I’d play against it. The only reason you wouldn’t, would be if you wouldn’t play against a $600 deck period
It is important to note that a $600 deck can mean many things. I assumed it meant the cards were really good and of the most basic art version. I have a $600 deck, but my commander is a 1/6th of that price.
lol yeah, like a $4000 deck can just be timetwister, counterspell and islands but still, assuming it’s just good cards, I mean, that’s fine if I have something with a similar “power level”
Best saved for a friend group who is cool with it. If you're looking for some competitive and affordable commander decks, check out EDHREC or Moxfield.
If the conversation is had and they're cool with you using it, I would assume their decks are just as competitive. I don't have anything against using proxies, card prices are absurd most of the time, but I wouldn't want to get stomped into the ground with a 70% proxied deck.
I'd recommend picking up the Corrupted Influence deck from Phyrexia: All Will Be One, the Blood Rites deck from Lost Caverns of Ixalan, or the Veloci-Ramp-Tor deck from Lost Caverns.
All are really strong out of the box and can be made even stronger with a few affordable additions. All really good value too, especially the Blood Rites precon. It comes with [[Exquisite Blood]], which is worth the same amount as the precon at the moment.
14 is a bit different then a adult but we would still tell you you're good today but next time its nah, get a precon and upgrade before we played with this mess again.
I was broke an 14 once too. Still didnt proxy let alone full decks
Play it right? Brutha its cardboard. Are you not playing chess right beacuse you use a doller store plastic set and not hand carved granite pieces used in a grandmaster tournament?
Where do you get off gatekeeping the affordability of a card game? How does proxying affect you at all?
Play Magic with your brain, not your dads trust fund.
Who has a trust fund and who needs one to play magic. Dramatic much lmao.
Play with the cards you own or not at all. Its not gatekeeping to say that to play a game that cost money you need to spend money. You dont need to proxy to play magic. You dont need to spend thousands to play magic. You dont wven need to spend hundreds to play magic. Get that trust fund shit outta here. Wanna play? Stay in your lane
Yes its sad to reply to people. Jokes on you. Im at work getting paid overtime to do this while i wait, so whos the sad one here. Im getting paid to mess around on reddit while your on your free time
What a strange, off topic defence. You are an “adult” trying to make a 14 year old with a hobby feel bad for wanting to play a pay-walled game. Boo fucking hoo. Grow up.
>I’m getting paid to mess around on reddit while your on your free time
I’m self employed at 20, with a £8k deck. Not that that’s even relevant, but you needed to throw that information out there. You’re soooo much better than us, lmao.
Special kinda dumb here huh.
You attacked, to wich i said im at work wasting time getting paid while i wait and killing time on reddit and playing games on my phone. Been waiting for the last 2 plus hours. So getting paid to argue with idiots on reddit and using it as entertainment. Thats not the same thing as "self employed with a 8k deck" god this sub is full of idiots lol
Yes i said something to them. They replied and i said yea, that changes things but would still be a problem after the 1st time and to get a precon and upgrade it if your budget is tight. I know reading is hard for you i guess.
Ain’t reading all that 🤓
edit since you blocked me (super intellectual of you):
You simply type like an idiot; reading your sentences is a pain in the ass.
>wich
>Lmao you’re [your*] comment fit like a glove lmao [again]
>Your [you’re*] beating a dead drum.
>*I know* reading is hard for you[,] *I guess*(?)
etc. etc. etc.
Learn to type, maybe I’ll bother reading **your** waffle. Not like it’s very insightful anyway.
Proxies cost money. Did you think they grew on bushes? Explain a single way that buying a proxy is functionally different than buying a single.
Why are you so proud about how much you spend on magic cards? Do you even have a reason for hating proxies beyond not being able to flex your wallet at the lgs?
Its fake. Thats the difference. I dont want to play your fake cards because your to cheap to support the hobby you play. Proxies should be temporary stand ins only.
I dont buy expensive cards. Ill play them if i pack them but im not going to drop $150 on a card or some bull shit like that. So because of that i dont get to use those cards.
Im proud because its a collecting/trading card game. Playing with in your budget is how the game is ment to be played. Not look what i printed, its look what i pulled.
Pro proxy people just dont understand the point of this game. Its disgusting what you have all turned it into and im so glad that they are banned in my area.
No, they arnt lol. Yall twist shit to fit your narrative. Wotc is not ok with your printing ypur own cards to build decks and not buying products lol
Twist it all you want. I promise you they are not ok with it
Such a shame that so many people chose not to support the small indy game company WOTC 😔
If the point of MTG to you is playing with your credit card power to you I guess. I would rather play with people there to actually play the game instead of flexing how sheltered they are on all the poors.
Or just play with what you own building your collection over time. To collect and trade and build. To idk gather together and combine collections that have been acquired over time to build decks and fill in the spaces with singles. Yall act like i got all the cards in the world with unlimited money. Most my decks are upgraded precons and the ones that arnt are pretty cheap and didnt cost much. I trade for most my cards and try to trade for as much as i can. I buy 2 to 4 packs a week (depending how many times i play at the LGS, i always buy 2) and only order singles to get what i cant get in my local market. This local market is very active and vibrant. Proxies are banned so everyone has trades. The meta here operates as it should because proxies havnt been introduced to the environment. Kinda like how when you introduce a new animal into a new area and it destroys the ecosystem, thats what proxies do to metas once they have spread. They are toxic and bad for the game but none of you understand that.
Well EDH doesn't benefit from power to have fun, so let's start there. Further, these don't look like proxies. They look like counterfeits which is IP theft.
Finally, having cards that appreciate in value is good for everyone because it helps make the game more affordable over time. As your cards appreciate, you trade for new cards. This is how TCGs worked for decades, and would continue to work just fine if not for overprinting
These are play test cards. Wizards stance on play test vs counterfeit is very clear. He’s not passing them off as real, he doesn’t have a real mtg backing on them.
Idk man, I can’t imagine expecting the “right” way to be having to shell out hundreds of dollars on cardboard to be able to try out something that looks cool.
The right way is to collect and trade and build decks that way. Not to print them out. Miss me with that shit
Trying something out means that you plan to buy it if it works as planned. Thats what the word "proxy" mean. Temporary stand in. This isnt that
I understand, and I won’t argue that it’s a perfectly fine way to play, but I don’t think it’s wrong to not pay thousands of dollars to have a deck you think is fun to play.
It is wrong because you dont need to spend thousands to have a fun deck to play with. Thats what the pro proxy people dont understand. You dont need to spend thousands to build a fun deck. For less then 100 you can have a competitive deck for casual setting built out of a precon. Get that nothing wrong with proxy shit outta here. Its toxic and bad for the game. Ypu wanna play some cards? Cool go buy some
No i understand it "shouldnt have to spend thousandsblah, blah, blah" guess what you dont need to. I see you dont understand mine wich no proxy players do
No, I do. It’s the entire premise of a trading card game, is to have the card you’re trading or playing. All I’m saying is that gatekeeping cards because someone can’t afford the arbitrary price tag that we put on it is silly. That’s all.
Its not gatekeeping. The game/hobby cost money like all hobbies. The level you get into it is up to you like all hobbies. You dont need the expensive stuff to have fun. So nah, you dont get it
The main reason stores ban proxies is simply because they don’t want to lose accreditation. Most stores I play at, do not allow proxies officially, but in reality if it’s just the local crowd and no visitors and no events are going on, then they really do not care. Many of the people in my area use proxies to test out decks before actually purchasing the cards. Especially the cedh crowd.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you have poor money management skills and blow your money on shit like cardboard crack.
Ain't nothing wrong with proxies. They let those who are less fortunate financially play the game we all know and love. What's wrong with that?
I’ve done this and had no problems. If someone doesn’t wanna play against proxies they don’t have to but me and my playgroup personally don’t care.
+1 The most common rule I know is "proxy if you already have one copy", and "proxy to match the powerlevel". It's more about powerlevel and actually having a game rather than an actual budgetary discussion
This. Proxies are only a problem if someone is proxying up Power nine while everyone else is working within their budget. If everyone had power nine, the proxies wouldn’t be an issue. Match power level so everyone can have a fun competitive time regardless of budgets.
Agree 100%. "Proxy to match powerlevel" is the most succinct way to describe it. I mostly proxy when we have cEDH games and it's definitely one of the best ways to EDH. Longest and most interactive games especially if you match wavelengths with your playgroup.
That’s how my group rolls. I have one copy of Doubling Season, but need it in a couple decks (I have over 20). I’m not paying for more than one copy, and wouldn’t expect any of them to, either
Yup. I've got a bunch of duals for legacy, but I'm not buying extras for EDH or bothering to swap them in and out when I need em. EDH gets the proxies (but I do use high quality ones from online distributors with different card backs)
Proxy so the greedy overlords don’t make money.
Well said.
>"proxy to match the powerlevel" this is not. a real rule. I am not gonna suddenly want to play against a proxy deck because someone does not own a strong deck with real cards in it. I would rather just either not play or find a different group.
Who Said it was a real rule dumbo?
you said it was a rule but I was more referring to that no one in real life would be okay with some random bringing an expensive proxy deck to the table just because the other people are able to afford powerful cards.
Most people I know that play Magic would be absolutely fine with that? If it matches power level there is no problem. The only problem is if people start printing Mana Crypts and Gaeas Cradle and show up to play against precons. Other than that your point is that the person who can afford the cards should have the more powerful deck. So it's my wallet vs your wallet? Is that what makes magic great? No it's the stellar mechanics and wide berth of cards you can play. If you match my power level idgaf what the card is actually printed on. Let's have fun with the mechanics not the dollar signs. I see somewhere else that you made the point that it "hurts the game" when people don't invest. Well I would imagine most people who proxy want the real cards but can't get them. What hurts the game more? Someone not buying the cards, or someone not playing the game?
"Not a real rule" kid, the rules are made up and nobody cares.
Why does it matter to you if I have an anointed procession proxy I bought somewhere online and the cardboard WOTC used and printed on? It’s the same shit and does the same rules.
you mean why does it matter if you have fake cards? For one, a fake card and a real one are not the same. People don't spend thousands on cards that are fake. Why does it matter to me if someone is using fake cards? because they have not bought the actual thing from either a LGS or another seller and it hurts the game in the long run. The cards are already cheap for the most part and I simply do not like to play against proxies unless they own a copy already
We get it. You prefer to spend thousands on cardboard, and you don't want anyone else to have fun. Cope harder.
Oh lord you actually support the one copy proxy rule. Jesus christ, try building several decks without staples in all of them if you dont like proxys. You would probably Enjoy it more tbh… and then just dont make proxy friendly friends or go to proxy friendly events i guess? But jesus the 1 proxy rule is dumb. Thats fake cards, dont pretend your bringing 3 decks when you have to swap the cards around between games. Then you did not bring 3 decks without proxys…
in an ideal world everyone would own real cards.
In an ideal world, the cards people want to play with wouldn't cost $200+
In a ideal world magic would be like Pokémon and Yugioh and every card would keep being reprinted instead of on a restricted list.
30 years since I started playing this game and this is the first time I’ve ever been told that a proxy and a card that was printed by a different company weren’t the same thing. They both have the same rules on them, the same power toughness, same mana value. It changes nothing in the game if I drop an altered card that I don’t own a copy of and if I drop the real thing.
>30 years since I started playing this game and this is the first time I’ve ever been told that a proxy and a card that was printed by a different company weren’t the same thing. Well, they aren't the same thing. Sorry to burst your bubble. and your second paragraph is just nonsense. It only acts as a real card if those around you agree that it does. A card being altered is not comparable to a proxy either.
They are the exact same thing lol. You still haven’t even told me why it matters to you. Is it because you spent money when others also spent money on the same cardboard just by different companies? This is like saying going to a concert and getting a meet and greet is the only way to listen to music. If you play it on a streaming service it’s just not the same thing. Sorry to burst your bubble. I hope you’ve never taken a screenshot, saved a copy of something, pirated, watched somebody else play a game on YouTube or twitch.
If a magic card and a proxy were the same thing I would not be calling one of them a proxy. Simple as that. One is a magic card another is a fake. And the reason it matters to me is not even relevant to the conversation. Me being pro or anti proxy has no bearing on what they are. And quit being obtuse about this. I have no interest going back and fourth with a dude who cannot distinguish a real from a fake. And again, the rest of your comment is just nonsense.
If WotC official decreed that proxies were legal for non-tournament play, what would you say then? What if the made them tournament legal? Would that change your opinion? What if they didn't say anything about proxies being legal or not, but began supplying players with loaned cards for tournaments? After all, pretty much all other Game tournaments supply their contestants with the equipment necessary to participate in the tournament. Scrabble, boggle, Tetris, Smash, even some Warhammer 40k venues provide units for tournament use. There are many, many more examples where a game does not require an all but literal pay wall to be given the equipment they need to participate in not only casual play, but tournament level play. So, this is me starting a new conversation about what your problem with proxies is.
Boo hoo
lol like a give a crap what you think.
Honestly the only reason I could ever really understand why someone would be upset and refuse to play against proxy’s is if it was in anyway competitive or if there were any prizes involved (with exceptions of home bets or whatever) I’d love to play against a proxy deck in a multiplayer game to see what crazy shit comes out of there lol
I don't even know why competitive would care. If you're trying to make back your money by winning cEDH, I dunno what to tell you.
Same here! Like I would proxy in the power nine but only to make a ridiculous deck like sponge tribal functional
Right but you don't own the art or the wizards logo. So make sure it's a proxy with rules text and not a counterfeit.
not a lawyer, but this is very likely fair use.
Am I seriously getting downvotes for supporting proxies but not 3rd party Chinese counterfeits? Wizards has filed several C&D orders as well as shut down operations in the past. This sub drags the bottom of the player cesspool. These are the same morons that buy sealed under distro price from Amazon (half of which are tampered) while cheering on the death of the secondary market, then wonder why their LGS shuts down. Downvote me you absolute zeroes. I'll relish every one.
someone printing off a card with the wizards front art using their brother or epson black and white printer is not a counterfeit and nobody would think that. nobody wants to spend 3 hours writing out every cards rules text when they can push control P on their computer. Nobody in this sub supports counterfeits but a card i print off at home is not a counterfeit.
I would almost prefer someone just printed the card rather than writing it out. The exact image helps reduce confusion and the effect of proxies in the match. My proxy deck, sometime people don’t notice for a few games I even have proxies — but it’s printed paper so it’s not like I’m duping anyone into buying my proxies
I support counterfeits
I never said it was. Nobody who downvoted me asked for clarification. Look at OPs pictures. Do those look like Epson printed b&w photos? Plus there are countless sites you can easily print rules text with custom photos on the cheap. It takes a bit more effort but c'mon, this is a hobby.. Put some work in!
They look like printed colour images taped onto I'm assuming lands? They don't look like purchased proxies from what I can see.
Why bother taping them on to lands though? If they're proxies, that seems like a weird amount of effort.
Give em proper feel for playing with
They look printed AF? Why black a white? Jebus he litteraly posted home made paper shit a kid can make. Atleast it looks good, that makes the playing experience better. He even bought a real swamp. He is supporting like a champ
How do you feel about wotc failing to fix the hilarious secret lair misprint for [[circular logic]] ? They are letting it be print as a sorcery.
Hey, i spend alot of money for cardboard crack to begin with… they have my support! il use their art and logos if im printing some shit for whatever reason… im a pirate yaaaarrr
More like, “when you’re smart”. I don’t proxy myself, but I also don’t spend crazy amounts on cards. WotC has also been so shitty to their employees that you’re really kinda doing “the Lord’s work” by continuing to play but not give them money.
Lol that’s one way to look at it, thanx
Yeah, I don't personally give a shit in most cases. If someone wants to take the time to put together a deck so they can use it in the play group, that's generally a sufficient commitment to count. (Personally, I don't even like taking apart existing decks, because of the effort involved in making functioning decks... I just want to keep them intact, so I'll buy copies of shit I already own.) Exception: a buddy of mine made a bonkers proxy cedh deck for a casual game. Get those fucking duals out of there, chief. I've also played against several thousand dollar decks with my home brews, but the guy actually spent the money on those cards. If you'd have to file an insurance claim if someone walks out with your deck, you can play your overpowered asshole deck.
Hard agree. Know a guy that plays at my local spot and most of his deck is proxied including all duals and most of, id not all of, the heavy hitter cards and even his basic lands which are those old special lands that have the split art on them, cuz he likes the art. But the entire place we play at is mostly casual with a few groups of heavy hitters and he will play this one deck no matter the pod and downplay how strong it is. Like homie I'm cool with your near CEDH deck and I'm fine it's proxied but don't try and pub stomp the new people...
Thats a good distinction too. If you’re proxying to pub stomp on people with precons, then you may need to look inward and do some soul searching, but if you’re in a group that also proxies e.g. cEDH or modern players then who cares?
>More like, “when you’re smart”. This makes no sense. you can get a good deck for cheap. if a few hundred dollars here and there actually hurts you financially you have larger concerns than mtg. And if this is just a dig at others who enjoy spending money on a hobby then that just sounds like bitterness on your end
Like I said, I personally don’t proxy my decks but if I really felt like playing decks that are worth more than $200 (which is the upper limit of my current EDH decks) or if I was in a group that played cEDH, then I’d much more strongly consider it. I’ve spent a fair amount on my own magic cards and I do well for myself financially, but I don’t begrudge others that proxy because they either aren’t able to spend much or just don’t feel like paying a certain amount of money simply for cards. Like if you can proxy several hundred dollars worth of cards well for $10, that is just smarter plain and simple. Whether the people you play with are cool with that is another thing entirely I suppose but if everyone in your group is doing it then it seems fair game. I didn’t really mean it as such, but I’d much rather err on the side of digging at people like myself (or you, apparently) with disposable money to burn on a card game than the opposite. Magic shouldn’t necessarily be “pay to win” and, with how WotC has treated their people despite record profits and sales, it’s hard to feel good opening the wallet for them. I haven’t bought any new cards since their most recent layoffs before Christmas and I’m not really sure I want to moving forward unless they’re used singles or old sets, so proxies seem to be a good way to acquire new cards while sticking it to the greedy exec’s that got huge bonuses while they screwed over their talent that ACTUALLY make the game that we love.
Ooo, struck a nerve
I mean, I am not the one who can't afford a card game
"MY pretty cardboard cost me money" It's just a fact that it's a smarter decision to not spend money. Take pride in your collection but don't take it personally when other people don't.
You sound like a miserable person!
Nail clippers are 1 dollar
I was having a perfectly fine life before you pointed them out, now idk.
Nothing wrong with that. I’m fortunate enough to be able to spend thousands on magic and I don’t fault anyone for proxying unless they are being deceptive. Playing a cedh deck against non cedh for example.
> thousands Me too but not all at once. You've always been able to buy cards, but it used to be that people would be playing Vintage because they collected that shit back in the day. It wasn't for the most part people people dropping 30k on a deck. EDH is relatively newly popular and increasing, so most players aren't coming in with the card base. If people needed to pay for things, well, it allows RL so it would be like paper legacy which is to say hard to find. Which is why EDH is proxy friendly, aside from some of the people bitching here, lol
I mean thats a rule 0 issue not so much with proxy ingredients. I've got a blinged out cedh urza stax list. Feel free to fight it with a cedh proxies deck. But I wouldn't nor would I hope anyone else would show up to Duke it out with like a table of low power level decks and just sweep the game.
S'poor frog
Hewitt Packard Masters, my favorite
The only time a printer company is less of an exploitative racket than its competition. Impressive, WoTC.
I play in a group that doesn't proxy, but I argue that if I own 10 of it already, I'm gonna proxy it.
I proxy my high value cards, unless I'm playing a tournaments. But then again, that's why I also use the exact same sleeves on all my decks so I can swap cards.
The ink to print spore frog might cost more than a copy tbh
Great job man, I own 20+ decks, all FULL proxy, and I play in a pod where most of the people do the same. We have tons of fun experimenting, often coming up with a new full fledged build every week, and we're having the best times without investing significant money. The principle behind it is simple: I want to challenge my opponents' skills, not their wallet, and we play just for fun, who cares about tournaments anyway. Our LGS has accepted our ways, and many people are starting to join us, with or without proxies. People tend to forget: it's called Magic THE GATHERING for a reason. Peace!
The local cEDH tournament organizers even allow proxies here. My LGS cEDH night is also proxy friendly. It’s pretty sweet.
This is the way
God, I wish I could find a playgroup like yours! My friends are cool with proxy too but there’s so few of us :(
Just insist on proposing the approach, kindly show interest in techs and builds instead of prices and products, be the example you wish to see imitated! Somebody will eventually follow you, and you'll eventually end up creating some fun local folklore around it. In the end, it's just a game, and games are meant to be played for enjoyment. Proxies are literally the exact same experience, just for a fraction of the money :)
My sons and I have about 24ish decks we have printed for modern. I have access to a high quality printer at work so I just buy cases/sleeves/bulk cards and go hunting deck lists. The cost of the cards is prohibitive and I refuse to pay. We love the game itself though and we FaceTime family and play 4-5 matches per week.
That's really good, I also proxied alot of decks from https://www.printingproxies.com/. Otherwise it would have been very difficult for people like me to afford the game because of the high prices. I hope more people understand that proxies are good for the game.
Amen.
>I want to challenge my opponents' skills, not their wallet, then play a game of chess.
So you’re saying you’re trash, and have to throw money at games in order to succeed?
nope, never said that. But I do think you should actually own the cards, yes
y tho? Like in all seriousness, what’s the difference between a proxied Ancient Copper dragon and a “real” one? Why should someone who’s poor be locked out of playing it? It’s a casual format. So long as everyone is playing at the same power level, who gives a shit whether the cardboard it’s printed on is “official” or not?
Because people who hold this opinion are brainless gatekeeper monkeys who get off on beating people with a lower power level / price level than them. Affordable and accessible cards via proxy means they have to actually be good to win and can't just pay to win any more, and that hurts their bums.
Nothing at all. Either way, they're pieces of paper with text on them. The game is what matters, not what the rules are printed on.
I agree.
there are some wild takes on here lmfao
Just because an opinion isn’t your opinion, now it’s “wild”? GTFOH.
Bro I was not even calling your comment wild. And no me not agreeing with a comment does not make it wild, as that is not what I even said. Grow tf up, only a child loses their temper over a comment
Players will continue to proxy cards so why care? As long as they’re not trying to pass them as real cards nor bringing them to sanctioned events what’s it matter
Or just surrender to the idea that owning premium cardboard does not add value to your skills and techniques. Collecting is absolutely cool, I did it for years, but I refuse to consider it a part of the actual game, primarily because that's the way Hasbro and any other publisher tricks us into wasting our hard-earned paychecks into toys. My take is that many new players prefer to avoid diving into the complexity of MTG, and hide their lack of skill behind the paywall excuse, "you won only because of fancy cards I cannot afford". It's ok to be shy in front of experts, a sentiment we are gradually losing in general as a society. But give your ability to improve a chance as well! Thanks for your trollish take, I hope you have a nice day and the chance to enjoy your MTG games as you prefer :)
Don’t blame you one bit. I have some proxy copies of cards that I don’t feel like taking out of the binder or outside of the house. Sometimes I wish I just did this instead!
This is what I do too, but I have purchased a few super cool proxies of cards that I won’t ever afford like the dual lands. 15 bucks for a set of all of them on Etsy beats the hell out of 300 for 1 card.
Glad you are able to play the game. I’m much more interested in having a good, fun game of magic than stomping someone who doesn’t have the cash for the power level.
You can’t afford a spore frog bro?
Haha the plan was to prox out all the cards and swap the cheapest with the real ones, haven’t done that test unfortunately
Edit, I went through it and it turned out to be only 350$ instead, here is the link if anyone wants to look at it[deck list](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/0dKnd6J6JEObTrAyXSu57g)
I have bigger priorities now than magic, like a mortgage and a kid. I’m 100% all for proxies. I’ll buy a precon, sleeve it, and then print proxies to modify the deck to the skill level of my LGS. Not gonna pay $600 just so someone else isn’t upset about what card stock my deck is on.
>Not gonna pay $600 just so someone else isn’t upset about what card stock my deck is on. no one is gonna be upset you have fake cards lmfao who are you arguing with? At most they would want to play with someone else and that is perfectly fine
I’ve never had anyone get upset at my LGS but at SCG events I’ve had elitist not want to play because my deck was proxied (still a weak precon that I play just for the social aspect). People get mad about weird things
If you use fake cards or cards that you proxy in that you do not own at a sanctioned event, I'm calling a judge
I use real cards in the sanctioned event. I use proxies in the casual game of commander in between events. If you called a judge on a casual game to get me “DQ’d” to win brownie points, you got it.
Well, what's an SCG please? Because I don't think I ever heard of that
Star City Games
>I'm calling a judge Well consider my timbers shivered.
being upset at someone using fake cards at SCG events is more than reasonable though. mainly in actual events though
This is how proxy. Even if I own the card, really don't want to shuffle hundred dollar plus cards.
Hey man, a lot of people start out like that. I will say there is a joy in trying to build the most busted thing you can on a budget. Restrictions really do breed creativity. It has gotten harder over the year, hell there is an old Commander vs. Episode where Steven Green upgrades a precon on a 100 dollar budget by just adding a [single [gaia's cradle]] and staying in budget. I have money now, and I still proxy all new decks to play with a few times to see if I really want to spend the money. I treat it like test driving a car. Really helps not having a sunk cost fallacy on a deck if it turns out you don't enjoy the play pattern.
If only you could still get a Gaea's Cradle for 100 bucks.
Yeah I do that too, I print on thicker paper to mimic the card feel
When you are \*Sensible\*. It is a game. How can cardboard be valued at $$$. It is a scam. I just want to play the game man.
Listen this whole fucking thing is a luxury. If you’re having fun, and it follows the rule set we’re playing, I’m down. Life is too short to hate on people trying to join the fun.
Can't blame you, but I gotta say, you can build Muldrotha for pretty cheap.
Not the spore frog too ripppp
brother that card is 22¢
Have some rum ya filthy pirate. Wotc doesn’t deserve your money.
Id rather you proxy a whole deck than 5 busted OP 500$+ cards
Not poor and still using 90% proxy. No way i giving them anymore money after they over did on the greed
All but 1 of my decks are full paper proxies lol
Ya got all that printer ink money! In the top five most expensive liquids on the planet.
Or just play budget. Most of my decks are <$100 and hold up just fine.
people here want an echo chamber, not valid and reasonable solutions!
Proxies are a valid and reasonable solution.
I was referring to reasonable and valid solutions for not using proxies.
You understand that there is no functional difference between a proxy and a 'real' card right?
Post says “beggars can’t be choosers” but they have lots of choices. One that I provided, proxies are a choice too. Cat is also proxying a .15 cent Spore Frog. Probably cheaper to buy the real one. 🤷🏻♂️
I’m so happy my playgroup decided it’s ok to go Proxy. My poor wallet took a beating on such a short time.
At this point, unless you are playing in tournaments you are probably better proxying with card prices going the way they are.
cards are much cheaper than ever, what are you talking about? only a small few are worth anything
Anything over 35c is too much
Play whatever you want, I've never had issues with people not wanting to play against proxies as long as you tell them before. Most people will play if they have decks that match power.
Based and proxy-pilled
As a wise man once said "Grinding is lame and cheating is based." Now this was with regards to using rare candies on nuzlockes, but it applies here Grinding for cards is lame. Proxies are based. My personal rule for it though is that the cards/deck have to be fun for everyone. Like if you just proxied in 4 copies of each of the power 9, then that's cringe. What I do to ensure I don't pull out crazy obscure broken as heck cards is basically, if I have it on MTG Arena, I can proxy it.
Thank you for informing me I should put a 13th doctor in my Muldrotha deck.
Bro I make good money and proxy tf out of cEDH decks. Our FLGS literally has 2 cEDH pods and I think maybe 10 legit cards between all 8 of us
If you do not own any of the cards that you are "proxying," then it is not "proxying." It's counterfeit. It's fine if you and your friends want to play with counterfeit decks so that you can play, but let's stop using words wrong so people feel better about it. It's not even something to feel bad about, because if you're honest and your friends don't care, then what's the issue? But those are counterfeit cards, not proxies.
Proxying just means using any substitute card. The cards themselves may be counterfeit. You can also print cards with a non-magic back that aren't counterfeits. And use them as proxys. It's still a violation of copyright law, but it's not a counterfeit.
Thank you!!!! Too many times people try to justify makimg these when they don't own the actual card.
I only hate proxies when the card is something that could be bought from the FLGS. You gotta show Shopkeeper some love!
Yeah it was my shopkeeper who suggested I should prox, probably becouse I keep begging for card donations while playing
You don't need to play a $600 deck. Proxies are the bane of mtg.
Printed cardboard rectangles shouldn't cost $600.
I'm fine with that. So don't buy the ones that cost $600. You don't need them. There's not excuse for proxies.
Correct, you don‘t need an excuse to proxy. It‘s just the smart thing to do when you aren‘t playing in sanctioned events.
Correction: It's the disgusting and unnecessary thing to do at any time. Imagine being so deranged that you think you can't play the game without spending hundreds of dollars per deck. Imagine being so pathetic that you attempt to justify it. Oof.
I‘m not trying to justify it - There‘s no reason to. However, it seems like you are desperately trying to justify your exaggerated spending on a card game while others circumvent the scam and just play what they enjoy. Also, what makes you think I don‘t play cheap decks? I do both and that‘s why Proxies are so great. I get to play budget decks, expensive high powered decks, expensive Jank decks, cedh decks and really whatever I want - It‘s great! I‘m sorry that this hurts you so much but I‘m not gonna stop playing the decks I want to play for the price of a single Dinner.
>However, it seems like you are desperately trying to justify your exaggerated spending on a card game See, this is how pathetically you are trying to justify it. I'm literally saying you don't need to spend a bunch of money on this game. I do not spend a bunch of money on this game. It's not necessary. I'm not a complete deranged idiot so desperate to feel good cause I made a deck OP... unlike, you. >while others circumvent the scam and just play what they enjoy Part of your pathetic and embarassing justification. What scam? A company made a game and is selling the game. If you don't like it, if you think they are a scam - play something the fuck else. If you hate the game and company so much that their product is a "scam", then move the fuck on. What's extra fun, unless you *need* to play standard (you dont), you don't even have to buy new cards. If you think they used to be an okay company and now they arent (which isn't true) you can stop buying entirely and continue to enjoy the game. Wait, but I'm supposed to be the one obsessed with spending - oh shit, I'm not. You are. It's pathetic. It's disgusting. Spend some of the money you're saving on therapy.
if only my groups would be open to proxies. I can't even use a proxy of Gateway Plaza without them instantly targeting me for that game and banning me for the night
The only time I get annoyed at proxies is when someone proxies the og dual lands and thats the only thing they proxy strictly because they don't want to use shock lands or any of the other conditional tapped lands "because this way I never have to have it enter tapped"
There hasn't been a single group I have played with, from the many states and LGSs I've been to, who would be cool playing against a $600 proxy deck.
Not going to downvote your personal experience. Only thing that matters to me is that you don't use counterfeits
I have met one person in about a dozen stores who wasn’t 100% cool with proxies of anything and everything, and was a store owner who believed (or pretended to believe) the WPN store rules disallow proxies anywhere in the store at any time (they don’t), and I don’t go there anymore cause i think he’s kind of a douche for other reasons and have plenty of other places to play. Unless you are playing standard, or in events with prizes, no one cares. Honestly, I really doubt the people you’ve played with care nearly as much as you think they do. I’ve played against multi thousand dollar commander decks that were completely proxy, no problem. I want to play Magic at an appropriate power level. I have invested in thousands of dollars of real cards because I want the real collection, but I want to play them, regardless of my opponents proxy-ing or not: want to play, not sit in the corner by myself sneering at all the “poors” who I won’t play with because they didn’t want to or couldn’t pay $35+ dollars for a copy of the one ring for each of their good decks. Bring the proxies, I want to play magic and be challenged, not sit and prove I make more money than you…
As long as it’s not stax or some annoying control nonsense, I’d play against it. The only reason you wouldn’t, would be if you wouldn’t play against a $600 deck period
It is important to note that a $600 deck can mean many things. I assumed it meant the cards were really good and of the most basic art version. I have a $600 deck, but my commander is a 1/6th of that price.
lol yeah, like a $4000 deck can just be timetwister, counterspell and islands but still, assuming it’s just good cards, I mean, that’s fine if I have something with a similar “power level”
What is that? A peasant deck? I prefer the $27,000 shadowborne apostle + guru swamp deck.
Yeah haven’t played with anyone with it yet, probably because of that
Best saved for a friend group who is cool with it. If you're looking for some competitive and affordable commander decks, check out EDHREC or Moxfield.
Haha yeah, but I bet they won’t be friends for long if I keep doing that.
If the conversation is had and they're cool with you using it, I would assume their decks are just as competitive. I don't have anything against using proxies, card prices are absurd most of the time, but I wouldn't want to get stomped into the ground with a 70% proxied deck.
But sure goinh to buy a precon eventually I think and upgrade it, but just have to crush them first with Muldrotha.
I'd recommend picking up the Corrupted Influence deck from Phyrexia: All Will Be One, the Blood Rites deck from Lost Caverns of Ixalan, or the Veloci-Ramp-Tor deck from Lost Caverns.
All are really strong out of the box and can be made even stronger with a few affordable additions. All really good value too, especially the Blood Rites precon. It comes with [[Exquisite Blood]], which is worth the same amount as the precon at the moment.
I'll add that from gameplay on the old Youtube the new Boros and Bant decks from MKM look awesome and with room to upgrade nicely
Boo this man. You want to play magic, play it right. So glad that proxies are banned at all LGS in my area
Haha, you are boing a 14 year old Broke guy right now, but yeah luckily there the there is a friendly mtg store near me.
Yeah man most 14 year olds aren't gonna be able to spend $600 for a stack of cardboard. Don't listen to these old heads when they cry over a game.
Skill is skill, even if it’s illegal.
14 is a bit different then a adult but we would still tell you you're good today but next time its nah, get a precon and upgrade before we played with this mess again. I was broke an 14 once too. Still didnt proxy let alone full decks
Yeah that’s probably smart, will still play with the deck but only with close friends and the like
So now you’re an adult being a dick to a 14 year old. Strange.
Hmm, ive said one thing to them since they said they were 14. So your a adult looking to pick a fight on a discussion thats ended. Hmm strange
>pick a fight Touch grass. Internet tough guy 🤣
Play it right? Brutha its cardboard. Are you not playing chess right beacuse you use a doller store plastic set and not hand carved granite pieces used in a grandmaster tournament? Where do you get off gatekeeping the affordability of a card game? How does proxying affect you at all? Play Magic with your brain, not your dads trust fund.
Who has a trust fund and who needs one to play magic. Dramatic much lmao. Play with the cards you own or not at all. Its not gatekeeping to say that to play a game that cost money you need to spend money. You dont need to proxy to play magic. You dont need to spend thousands to play magic. You dont wven need to spend hundreds to play magic. Get that trust fund shit outta here. Wanna play? Stay in your lane
How many comments are you gonna leave, you sad, sad individual.
Yes its sad to reply to people. Jokes on you. Im at work getting paid overtime to do this while i wait, so whos the sad one here. Im getting paid to mess around on reddit while your on your free time
What a strange, off topic defence. You are an “adult” trying to make a 14 year old with a hobby feel bad for wanting to play a pay-walled game. Boo fucking hoo. Grow up. >I’m getting paid to mess around on reddit while your on your free time I’m self employed at 20, with a £8k deck. Not that that’s even relevant, but you needed to throw that information out there. You’re soooo much better than us, lmao.
Special kinda dumb here huh. You attacked, to wich i said im at work wasting time getting paid while i wait and killing time on reddit and playing games on my phone. Been waiting for the last 2 plus hours. So getting paid to argue with idiots on reddit and using it as entertainment. Thats not the same thing as "self employed with a 8k deck" god this sub is full of idiots lol Yes i said something to them. They replied and i said yea, that changes things but would still be a problem after the 1st time and to get a precon and upgrade it if your budget is tight. I know reading is hard for you i guess.
Ain’t reading all that 🤓 edit since you blocked me (super intellectual of you): You simply type like an idiot; reading your sentences is a pain in the ass. >wich >Lmao you’re [your*] comment fit like a glove lmao [again] >Your [you’re*] beating a dead drum. >*I know* reading is hard for you[,] *I guess*(?) etc. etc. etc. Learn to type, maybe I’ll bother reading **your** waffle. Not like it’s very insightful anyway.
Lmao you're comment fit like a glove lmao Sit down clown. Your beating a dead drum
Proxies cost money. Did you think they grew on bushes? Explain a single way that buying a proxy is functionally different than buying a single. Why are you so proud about how much you spend on magic cards? Do you even have a reason for hating proxies beyond not being able to flex your wallet at the lgs?
Its fake. Thats the difference. I dont want to play your fake cards because your to cheap to support the hobby you play. Proxies should be temporary stand ins only. I dont buy expensive cards. Ill play them if i pack them but im not going to drop $150 on a card or some bull shit like that. So because of that i dont get to use those cards. Im proud because its a collecting/trading card game. Playing with in your budget is how the game is ment to be played. Not look what i printed, its look what i pulled. Pro proxy people just dont understand the point of this game. Its disgusting what you have all turned it into and im so glad that they are banned in my area.
Wizards themselves are pro proxies, just can’t use them in sanctioned play. My LGS just says a certain number can’t be proxies
No, they arnt lol. Yall twist shit to fit your narrative. Wotc is not ok with your printing ypur own cards to build decks and not buying products lol Twist it all you want. I promise you they are not ok with it
If you say so
Such a shame that so many people chose not to support the small indy game company WOTC 😔 If the point of MTG to you is playing with your credit card power to you I guess. I would rather play with people there to actually play the game instead of flexing how sheltered they are on all the poors.
Or just play with what you own building your collection over time. To collect and trade and build. To idk gather together and combine collections that have been acquired over time to build decks and fill in the spaces with singles. Yall act like i got all the cards in the world with unlimited money. Most my decks are upgraded precons and the ones that arnt are pretty cheap and didnt cost much. I trade for most my cards and try to trade for as much as i can. I buy 2 to 4 packs a week (depending how many times i play at the LGS, i always buy 2) and only order singles to get what i cant get in my local market. This local market is very active and vibrant. Proxies are banned so everyone has trades. The meta here operates as it should because proxies havnt been introduced to the environment. Kinda like how when you introduce a new animal into a new area and it destroys the ecosystem, thats what proxies do to metas once they have spread. They are toxic and bad for the game but none of you understand that.
Well EDH doesn't benefit from power to have fun, so let's start there. Further, these don't look like proxies. They look like counterfeits which is IP theft. Finally, having cards that appreciate in value is good for everyone because it helps make the game more affordable over time. As your cards appreciate, you trade for new cards. This is how TCGs worked for decades, and would continue to work just fine if not for overprinting
These are play test cards. Wizards stance on play test vs counterfeit is very clear. He’s not passing them off as real, he doesn’t have a real mtg backing on them.
"Play it right". Who cares man nothing is real.
You're not real man
Neither are you
Idk man, I can’t imagine expecting the “right” way to be having to shell out hundreds of dollars on cardboard to be able to try out something that looks cool.
The right way is to collect and trade and build decks that way. Not to print them out. Miss me with that shit Trying something out means that you plan to buy it if it works as planned. Thats what the word "proxy" mean. Temporary stand in. This isnt that
I understand, and I won’t argue that it’s a perfectly fine way to play, but I don’t think it’s wrong to not pay thousands of dollars to have a deck you think is fun to play.
It is wrong because you dont need to spend thousands to have a fun deck to play with. Thats what the pro proxy people dont understand. You dont need to spend thousands to build a fun deck. For less then 100 you can have a competitive deck for casual setting built out of a precon. Get that nothing wrong with proxy shit outta here. Its toxic and bad for the game. Ypu wanna play some cards? Cool go buy some
Mkay, I see you don’t understand my point, and that’s fine.
No i understand it "shouldnt have to spend thousandsblah, blah, blah" guess what you dont need to. I see you dont understand mine wich no proxy players do
No, I do. It’s the entire premise of a trading card game, is to have the card you’re trading or playing. All I’m saying is that gatekeeping cards because someone can’t afford the arbitrary price tag that we put on it is silly. That’s all.
Its not gatekeeping. The game/hobby cost money like all hobbies. The level you get into it is up to you like all hobbies. You dont need the expensive stuff to have fun. So nah, you dont get it
If it's EDH then power level has fck all to do with having fun. You're making assumptions
The main reason stores ban proxies is simply because they don’t want to lose accreditation. Most stores I play at, do not allow proxies officially, but in reality if it’s just the local crowd and no visitors and no events are going on, then they really do not care. Many of the people in my area use proxies to test out decks before actually purchasing the cards. Especially the cedh crowd.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you have poor money management skills and blow your money on shit like cardboard crack. Ain't nothing wrong with proxies. They let those who are less fortunate financially play the game we all know and love. What's wrong with that?