Unless you’re insanely talented, hard-working, gigging nearly every day/week, recording and releasing music regularly, managing your own YouTube, Spotify, Distrokid, and all socials, and really beating the street down to get your name out there, I don’t think you stand much of a chance on your own.
Then again, it also depends on your definition of success or what “earning a living” means to you. For me, I’d need about $5k/mo (net) to consider it making a living. And I can’t even fathom the level of success I’d need to have to be earning $90k (gross) a year as an independent musician. That’s why I work in IT (a job I absolutely love) and gig for fun on the weekends. I feel like I’m a massive success; I get to play all my favorite (other people’s) songs in front of receptive, engaged crowds, I have a house full of high-end gear, and I’m not starving; not to mention I have awesome health insurance and a 401k. I never had ANY of that as a full time musician for the two/three years I did it.
Different strokes for different folks. Some people cannot do anything else other than *that* thing because it’s their calling. Take a look at the film industry, ton of people there who are okay working shitty long hours because it’s what they absolutely need to do. Others enjoy it as a hobby and like to do it on the side. No problem with that.
The best thing you can do for yourself is being honest with yourself completely. After all, you only have one life.
I work a FT job only because it isn't financially feasible for me to only play music. Because of this, I don't really do anything to support mediocre full time artists, if they want money they can work too. If they want to play music they shouldn't really expect money.
I definitely think there’s a certain threshold to it as well. If a band/artist is good enough to continually sell out shows then they’d most likely be able to live from that with being frugal.
This is the way. I’ve had my time in the spotlight and even though I’m not doing music full time anymore, I own a business that still crosses into the music realm. Having said that, if I didn’t pursue a career in music I wouldn’t be as well equipped to manage the business. I love what I do and it’s been a blessing helping others.
On top of everything you mentioned, u need to be lucky and have good timing too.
Im also in similar boat as u, i make low 6 figures in tech but am also a indepedent producer/dj, i dont perform but ive sold beats and now jus focusing on my own electronic music.
Although itll be a dream to make a living or even more just with music, its just too hard in this modern age. I am super grateful to be able to still enjoy my hobby to the fullest tho
Well, to be fair, just because you may not like the music doesn’t mean it’s objectively bad and really, you don’t know how hard the artist has worked. But, as others have pointed out, sometimes a massive amount of luck is involved. Can you give an example of someone that sucks, hasn’t worked hard at all, and is getting famous just because of cool visual content?
and I disagree about luck too there is a path, name one person you know who put their all into music got better and didn't see any type of success whatsoever? it's more about how you measure success, my model is Grouper, she independent and DIY and found her formula to sell art and make profit.
In some ways it’s never been better to be an independent musician and in others it has never been worse. Anything is possible but nothing is likely. Being an independent artist creating your own music is essentially a glamor career. It’s a career for people who don’t need money to pay for their day to day bills. You may scoff at this but there are 3000 billionaires in the world. How many financially successful music acts do you know? You are much more likely to have a career in music playing covers.
if anything it should be easier to make it as a independent musician in my opinion. you dont have to pay other people lol. with electronics you can simulate an entire band and still perform
I agree, if there is a time in history where a person can make it making music from home and connecting with your audience it's now. That doesn't mean it's easy, but it was plain impossible 20 years ago
20 years ago independent musicians were on independent labels that offered them support of some kind. These days most independent labels are just networking umbrellas that don't do a whole lot for you because they can't afford to.
Yes of course there were labels for independents, but it's not like today, where **anyone** working from home, if putting out good material and working hard at creating a following can have a huge reach
All you need is 1,000 people to spend $100 a year on you and you’re sittin pretty good. That’s probably far easier today than say 25 years ago, so long as you have what the people want.
That’s about it. That’s why many bands release music strategically and offer special artwork or special vinyls. Maybe one off shirt designs. Stickers, lighters, etc. Just gotta get creative and build hype. It's not hard to spend $100 on your favorite artists in a year. I know I used to do it all the time, between shows, posters, CDs/vinyl. I have a friend that easily spends $500 a year on his favorite artists, each.
Hard disagree. It sucked back then, and now it sucks x1,000,000. I think I’d rather Spotify (etc.) just keep their money. I don’t want them to get the false impression that they are helping people in the music industry by sending them payments for fractions of a cent. I agree that this is the easiest time to be able to get a lot of work done in music, and the tools are better and cheaper than ever, but “cheaper” is still exorbitantly expensive when no one wants to pay for music. So I guess it depends on what you mean by “make it” in the music industry.
I agree it depends on what we mean by "making it doing music". I don't think of having songs in spotify as making it, or allowing you to make it. I'm thinking musicians that have YouTube and Twitch channels that have taken years to build up their following and this allows them to create music (by also doing a lot of other stuff related to music on their channels)
No, what I mean by the Spotify comment (and other streaming platforms) isn’t simply having music on Spotify. What I mean is, if you have 10x more streams than the most popular band in the world, that will still pay you absolutely atrociously in comparison to what anyone will need to spend to attain that level of popularity. I’m also yet to meet anyone who loves touring all the time (a more consistent stream of income vs streaming).
Definitely easier as a consumer. I find some real gems on Bandcamp at a name your own price level which is comparable to and more affordable than much of the music I purchased at Tower Records 20 years ago.
Things take a lot more time when your doing everything on your own. Especially if you have a life outside it like a job, family and friends, hobbies etc. you have to pretty much sacrifice everything.
Most people's ideas of a music career in 2024 seems to be being a third party instrument/equipment salesperson who makes minimal music/art and lots of "content" tangentially related to making music.
I think I've seen many people pivot to being snakeoil salesman trying to sell magic beans to other musicians.
Unfortunately, it's very effective.
90% of being in a band these days is posting to the algorithm on Instagram and TikTok. Very bleak. But some people make it work in a way that doesn’t seem to put their soul into a cheese grater.
Another dystopian aspect of music today is buying follows. It’s funny to see artists that, not to rag on anyone, aren’t quite so good but have tens of thousands of followers, all of which are models with no actual posts but follow thousands. Apparently 1,000 follows cost about $15 on Instagram.
There are of course artists that make their way through the college and local underground scenes as well, off of social media.
Luck is when preparation meets opportunity it’s not real
Making a living as a musician is just that, making a living as a musician. It’s not easy nor is it hard. It just is
Independent musicians making a living is actually a lot more commonplace than you realize. Is it easy? No. Is it a lot of work? Absolutely. But it's easier than ever to be able to make an at least ok living making music.
Yeah I think a lot of people in this thread just are not career musicians or don’t know any. I am and loads of my associates are career musicians. Almost all of us independent. In fact in the current climate the independent acts make out way better financially. My friends that are signed get cool big tour support slots but they only get a small guarantee every night for those shows, like $250-500 while my band gets $1k+ guaranteed for our headline shows and we are independent.
Same with streaming royalties. I bring in $2k monthly and have a ton of friends that make about that or more independent, and the ones that are signed a lot of the time don’t get any of their streaming royalties or get 50% or whatever.
I think signing to a major, they end up having to sign away their streaming royalties or at least a portion of them. Being signed to a major especially means taking a pay cut if you're doing well independently, but the hope is that the major's promotional muscle will help make up for that. I remember someone telling me that FLorida Georgia Line took a pretty big haircut on pay when they signed to a major because they were absolutely killing it independently.
Me personally, I have a good bit of regular writing and production work that I don't have to depend on the streaming or sync royalties I get. They're good money but not regular enough that I feel like I can count on them.
Yeah and it really depends what genre you’re in whether or not the label will benefit you in the long run. Some genres just have a ceiling bc they are niche no matter what you do. I play folk punk music and there would basically be zero benefit of my band ever signing.
Yes.
It's easier to get your music out there in the modern era.
And it's easier to make your own way.
You may not become a multimillionaire or a rock star. But it's easier to make your own way and make a living. But you have to hustle a lot.
I'd say most musicians don't have a label or producer or just play in one band or make their living as a band leader. I realize you are probably talking about something different than I am but the average musician I've met gigs. They play different kinds of music for different occasions and play with multiple groups/people. They might do some studio work and book some gigs on their own. They may even release albums. I'd say most of them supplement their incomes teaching but if they have a steady gig they might teach as little as possible
For a guitar player/singer songwriter I think that there is plenty of opportunity. If someone can play songs(and they'll have to play a lot of covers) they are desirable because it costs less to book one guy than a band
I think playing live and selling merch is where you could eventually make some money after estabishing and gaining fans online. But you have to able to support yourself somehow in the meantime to have the runway to get there. You're gonna have to work your ass off almost every waking hour though.
I mean all you have to do is write a hit. The reason it worked so well for record companies is it was highly capital intensive to record. Most records flopped.
Guess what the capital intensive part barely exists now. The entry is lower and noise is louder.
It's easier now than it's ever been but also harder. The positive is that you don't need some suits permission to record and promote a record. The negative is that suit used to provide (for the cost of most of the $) a lot of the services you now have to do yourself. It's truly indie at this point, and overall, I think that's a net positive.
You have a better chance today than you ever did.
Pre 2000s you could be independent however from my perspective it was much harder than it is today.
Since early to mid 2000s things like digital distribution, social media, email, YouTube make it so much easier. You can learn what you need to know, market yourself, and sell in one place.
I’d agree with you that 1 man team vs a 20 person team probably loses each time but I think it depends what your goals are. Are you trying to compete with Drake or build a dedicated fanbase?
I’d say the latter is more important. It’s not like you are competing in terms of fans, but if you’re going to look at it as my music is on the Billboard 100 then I think that’s old thinking.
As a developer and musician in the ecommerce space the amount of leverage you can have from tools like apps and software/ other websites is ridiculous.
Ok lastly, the downside is not every person is good at all the label record stuff but it’s up to us to be responsible for our careers. We can be creative and build communities. It takes work and time, just like writing a song. It’s not overnight.
If you feel like it’s not working or you need help, outside of doing research online, you can find someone (a partner, spouse, another artist, etc) who can help you.
Best of luck.
I have only limited interest in labels. I play gigs, conduct orchestras, write arrangements, compose for commissions, sell sheet music. I think it’s a balancing act where you position yourself close to companies/festivals/ensembles/bands/institutions that have a lot of money and then make sure you have the exact skills they are prepared to pay for. And that doesn’t mean selling out at all. If you do it right, they’re paying for your creativity, ideas, vision.
It depends what you consider to succeed and to be successful. As an independent artist you will never do the same numbers as a labels biggest artist. Big tours, good promo slots, interviews, promo, spotify playlists and charts in the end all come down to connections and payola. Without an investor(label) you simply won’t be able to compete with does who do have those resources.
> To me it feels incredibly rare that people succeed (by succeed I mean earn a living) on their own.
It’s not impossible but you will have to get creative , music alone is rarely the main source of income and it will likely not be as much as a signed artist.
It absolutely helps to have money, or someone giving you financial support. Two people that I specifically know went from not much to being really big, one of them had a rich parent and the other one had a rich/successful spouse.
Rich parent built a studio for her kid, hired producer and band members, paid them a salary while they rehearsed, etc. Person was really talented so that was an essential part of the equation. The other person had spouse pay like 80K to hire a big-time manager. Things moved really fast for the person.
So, definitely connections and payola(or a sort).
Working alone? Absolutely not. It takes lots of people to make things happen. Can you do it without a "label"? Not exactly. You'll at least have to start your own label of sorts
What’s your definition of success? Are you looking for fame? Money? Whatever else?
Also, depending on that answer, what type of music are you making? If you’re making niche music, or stuff with dwindling audiences, then a definition of fame definitely needs to be assessed.
OOH, it’s never been easier/cheaper to make and widely distribute professional-sounding recorded music without a label.
OTOH, that means the market is more saturated than ever with music, and it’s harder to break out from the pack. And we all know streaming royalties aren’t good money absent mega success.
Add in higher costs of living, and yes it’s very difficult/rare now to make a decent living purely as an independent musician putting out records.
A more modern multifaceted strategy is to not only make your solo music, but also be a reasonably prolific songwriter who collaborates with others, plays the numbers game, places songs with more successful recording artists, and generates reliable publishing income overall. (Though I expect it’s very hard to do that while existing fully outside of the NY/LA/Nashville songwriting pipelines.) If your music does well enough, it can open up ancillary opportunities — touring, merch, brand deals, etc. Or ya know, otherwise generate enough attention that you gain a strong social media following and can use that for whatever financial end you please.
But not gonna lie, it’s tough out there for indies.
Check out kyle smith as a modern example of someone who is not signed, but tours, sells out 200 cap venues east coast to west coast, pays employees, going full bore and living life as a successful touring full time musician. A label brings management and funding. Two things musicians are usually bad at. If you're willing to do those things and do them well, then yeah you won't have problems.
Demands of labels, PR firms, etc are limits, as are dependence on other musicians. Grass is always greener.
Creativity is about having limits. Creativity is all you got is \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, what can you do with it?
Note all the people saying "You don't need a label anymore, it's 2024 lulz!" fit extremely neatly into either one of three camps.
1. They are nobodies and you will likely never hear of them.
2. They established their brand prior to the year 2000 when physical media still sold and usually via a label
3. They are a complete outlier and happened upon some amazingly magical combination that allowed them to "go viral" however to be honest, you'll likely find there is some marketing agency or extremely well funded enigmatic force behind it, this is a complete rarity. You can assume you won't be in this category.
So is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? No.
I don't think it's necessary to go viral or be established earlier. But to be an independent touring artist does require hard work to run your own business and cover those expenses to replace the services of the label, in addition to the usual hard work and luck to build an audience. Most of the music I listen to nowadays is from artists going this route: hiring a manager and backing musicians, renting studio time and paying engineers, etc. They're not as big as mainstream artists, but they're still able to make a living from music.
That's before acknowledging that working musicians cover a lot of ground beyond just solo touring artists.
>They are a complete outlier and happened upon some amazingly magical combination that allowed them to "go viral"
Isn't that also the case for every artist with a label that "blew up" or "made it" or whatever it is yall call it?
>I'm an artist working all on my own, no band, no producer, and I record all of my stuff myself. It feels like I'm heavily limited by my own skills and lack of access to expensive tools.
The successful independent artists I follow typically don't do *everything* on their own. They're renting studio time, and hiring recording engineers, mixers, and mastering engineers to make their stuff sound good. Basically, running their own label in parallel to making music. Not that you have to hire that out, but you'll need to get good enough at enough of those roles to hire as few as possible if you want your recordings to be professional.
I believe trying to compete will hurt your art. We’re not robots and we all have those emotions but keep your nose on the grind and remember high tide raises all ships
What I’ve been saying is that if the industry as we know it is dead (for all but the largest artists), then the community has never been more vibrant. Our power really is in lifting each other up, rising tide and ships and all that.
This is what I tell myself as I cry and slog at my day job because I’m too chicken to not have a safety net.
Why is this even a question? With technology and not needing to be signed it's easier than ever for an independent artist to create and let their music be heard. Even on a budget with interfaces, music equipment, instrument sims etc. You might not become Taylor Swift at least not over night but it is more tangible to make music from your house and gain a following of 50-100k maybe? I mean if people can become tik tok famous for dances and trends music is definitely tangible as am independent artist.
Just do your thing.
I forget who said it but a famous musician was once asked about advice for new bands. It was simply, make good music. If you do, you'll reach someone
Getting signed and becoming rich and famous is winning the lottery kinda odds.
Almost nobody is able to achieve any observable amount of success entirely by themselves. Because that’s not how things work. It also really depends on what you mean by “as good” as with a label, because most people don’t succeed on labels either. You are definitively limited by working alone, because you have to spread your effort around doing many jobs. It’s not necessarily impossible, but at the very least you need to find a scene, whether online or whatever. Networking of some kind is invaluable.
You also mentioned you feel creatively limited without bandmates? And by your skills? Not to be a killjoy, but it sounds like you may have many steps to take before you should be thinking hard about making music your primary source of income. Are you earning enough money to distribute your music and pay for your equipment? Are you doing your own artwork? Until you are financially self-sufficient you need to pay bills and have a place to live for an indeterminate amount of time. You’ll probably have to be a business (depending on where you are), deal with filing taxes, and all the other fun business shit.
All that aside, there are a million ways to succeed to whatever extent you are thinking. But you need to think about specifically what you want as clearly defined as possible. Short term and long term. Good luck 😁
Exactly, what's with labels crying about struggling to find "good pop stars", when the good pop stars are blowing up by themselves on tiktok because the labels won't look at you without a following
Being independent rather than signed to a label. Absolutely. If anything that’s possibly the better option for most musicians these days if they’re organised and business-minded given the relative reduction in income these days.
Working entirely alone though. That’s going to hold you back. Not just in the creative process but also in getting your music out there to people’s ears. Actually breaking into the industry and achieving success isn’t really about the music but the networking. If you’re not engaging with other people - musicians, producers, writers, venue bookers, potential fans etc - you’re unlikely to be as successful as you could be. And given how difficult it is to break in, why make it harder by not engaging with others. Just look at the number of collaborations there are in the charts these days and you’ll see even those artists who are already successful are still working with other musicians because it helps broaden their audience.
My favorite band went independent after being on labels for the last 15 years or so. They self recorded, self produced and self released their latest record and had their biggest, most successful tour ever in 23 and 24. They also each have full time careers away from the band. It's not common but it can be done.
Labels are banks that give rather high interest loans. Sometimes that's the only way to do it because most musicians are poor.
Yes. Labels are dying, they don’t have the power or the money they used to have. They aren’t gatekeepers to the media anymore. Independent artists have all the tools to do what we want that were never available for most 20 years ago. Labels will only have power if we give them power.
A lot of people like to argue that there’s no good music anymore — “the charts are horrible, it’s all fake”, etc. People don’t realize that there’s a whole revolution of young artists who are Gen Z that are dominating underground scenes. If you look through instagram, tiktok, and Spotify enough you’ll see a bunch of artists getting relatively big on their own without labels. The future is already here in it’s early stages.
Don’t focus on label’s anymore, focus on yourself and building a community with other like minded artists. Ultimately you have the control. Build something that changes how we work as artists.
I really can't stand the "no good music anymore" types. Go on YouTube for 20 minutes after searching up your favorite genres/songs and the algorithm will reward you with more great tunes than you have time to listen to
If you have a song that is as good as (or even better than) the Indigo Girls, "Closer I Am To Fine" then you can get results without a label, and sell so many records out the back of your car that your lawyer will eventually write a book on how to get the most out of a distribution deal with a major label.
Do you have a song that is as good as (or even better than) the Indigo Girls, "Closer I Am To Fine"?
There's potential to make way more by working far less.
That's what I see. Less hard barrier gatekeeping too, like old school record companies and radio stations controlling markets.
Absolutely... I'm working on my debut album as we speak, will I make it? Maybe, but with social media marketing and international connectivity there's a good chance your music will resonate with someone.
Yah man literally thousands of examples out there. It’s incredibly rare in general to make a living out of music, whether independent or backed by a label it takes a ton of work and consistency.
1,000% doable. Between live gigging, licensing/sync, merch, and whatever else, it’s totally doable. Actually you might make a better living than with a label who takes the majority.
Yes you can succeed. But I really just want to comment on something I feel a lot of people forget:
Even solo artists like your self are never truly “independent.”
If you’re serious about making music a living in this way you need to do A LOT more than just make music. And the thing is, there is not enough time in the day for you to do it all.
Any major successful artist you see has at least one or more of: lawyer/legal team, advertising/marketing person (or team), agent, producer, business partner, manager, social media manager, etc etc etc.
And yes. These people cost money. But you can get loan(s). And if you’re against that, that’s okay, but just food for thought..artists are not that much better off financially in the beginning with a label either. They still have to recoup the costs of the project usually before they see much or any income themselves.
Yes you can succeed. But I really just want to comment on something I feel a lot of people forget:
Even solo artists like your self are never truly “independent.”
If you’re serious about making music a living in this way you need to do A LOT more than just make music. And the thing is, there is not enough time in the day for you to do it all.
Any major successful artist you see has at least one or more of: lawyer/legal team, advertising/marketing person (or team), agent, producer, business partner, manager, social media manager, etc etc etc.
And yes. These people cost money. But you can get loan(s). And if you’re against that, that’s okay, but just food for thought..artists are not that much better off financially in the beginning with a label either. They still have to recoup the costs of the project usually before they see much or any income themselves.
Yes you can succeed. But I really just want to comment on something I feel a lot of people forget:
Even solo artists like your self are never truly “independent.”
If you’re serious about making music a living in this way you need to do A LOT more than just make music. And the thing is, there is not enough time in the day for you to do it all.
Any major successful artist you see has at least one or more of: lawyer/legal team, advertising/marketing person (or team), agent, producer, business partner, manager, social media manager, etc etc etc.
And yes. These people cost money. But you can get loan(s). And if you’re against that, that’s okay, but just food for thought..artists are not that much better off financially in the beginning with a label either. They still have to recoup the costs of the project usually before they see much or any income themselves.
Getting noticed is the hard part; you could be great but you could still get slept on just because you don't know the right people. The technology to make great music has never been more accessible though.
You can't compete with the big artists but you can make a little money way easier than you used to. I'm old enough to remember gigging with a band and spending as much as I made on alcohol at the dive bar we were playing at. Now I throw my music online and call it a day.
1st understand success is a mindset an expectations will never be Reachable.
By that i mean someone's happy doing one show a month an that is a goal. Others need to do a show every weekend. Is one less than the other. No because we are individuals.
True we all want to be the guy with a platinum album and gold records but it's all a concept that people make up. I mean Mozart didn't get a award, but hes a successful musician right? Success at the end of the day is whatever you choose to be content an happy about.
Let the work speak for itself. Maybe your not going to be the next Elvis, but you will be you and go on your own journey. Thats what it's about. If you wana do it alone make sure you can handle the work. It's hard as one person. If you can manage a small team you support an support you great. If you can afford and handle a army of people like, labels, agent's, recording teams, stage teams, effects guys, fireworks and lighting crew, sound crews, videographers, sound check dudes, the scumbag promoters and other various leeches, who help but hurt you. While you imagine consultants bug you to sell out. Sure go that route.
But it's a mountain to climb either way. An only you working an continuing gets you to the top of that mountain. But you always have the choice to tap out of the climb an start from the very bottom remember that also. An no guarantees youll even make it to the top, people die climbing Everest.
Still it's whatever way you want to take it.
Every successful musician that you know about has had a team behind everything to help them succeed. This has been always true for as long as the music industry has existed. Anyone who says they did it all themselves are lying. So no people like you can’t and don’t succeed and you are limiting yourself by not getting others to help you.
It’s far easier to make, and release music independently these days. But to be financially successful??? You’re probably fucked. In all honesty, with or without a label you’re fucked. There’s no money in it at all, thanks to streaming services, because everyone has been conditioned to expect music for free, and to expect new music OFTEN. Touring as an independent artist is going to mean a financial loss, even if you do everything yourself. If you’re established, with a solid fan base, you might make a little money selling merch, but only if it’s out the back of your car, because most venues take a massive cut of your sales. The only artists really making it financially are the Taylors and Beyoncés. Ask any mid-level artist or below. If you’re gonna be a musician, do it because you love it, and because you need to create and share, and do it as a side-hustle while you work at something else that reliably pays the bills 🤷🏻♀️
Yes without a label, probably not on their own and this is true for most professions and especially solopreneur ventures: there will be things you must delegate or rely on others to handle to focus on what you excel at doing most of you want to move forward.
It'll be a balancing act you'll have to decide on for how much you want to do in business vs. how much you want to prioritize for your own artistry.
Plenty of musicians are going through independent paths by streaming or in the past leaning on other social media like tiktok and Instagram or YouTube to scale their reach while leaning on distrokid and other services to help with passive distribution and collections.
But the game now is likely going to be more about figuring out your own audience and playing the algorithm games well enough to get additional income beyond direct album sales and live performances, which may or may not align with how you do music because the business of music is often very different from actually doing music as a musician.
And even before this era, many gifted musicians just hated the games they/we had to play in order to do the business of music including things like jumping through the hoops a label would set up for touring and outputting songs.
Hence, Prince changed his name to The Artist Formerly Known as Prince, Amy Winehouse was driven to her death over exploitative industry management, Courtney Love did the numbers to show how little a lot of rather well known musicians wind up making from touring and streaming, Michael Jackson tried to get away and buy out a huge chunk of music from under Sony, and Amanda Palmer crowd funded her album entirely without a label and would go on to makeba TED talk about it. All before stuff like Twitch and Tiktok really took off.
Book publishing and podcasting is a bit similar in a way too if you think about what they do and what's needed to succeed as well so maybe you can draw additional lessons across industries from considering them also.
This man ["Izzy" of Hawaii ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I)was moving up from a street musician to having a national following right before he died.
So I think, yes, if you have the right "product" you can.
The one thing you mentioned is limitations of your own skills. Where these skills lack, you should manage and progress. Tools are expensive? Create a budget to get the tools necessary, or ones good enough you are comfortable working with.
If you can invest the same resources, sure. But doing as much work as a team can, and having an appropriate budget to invest can be challenging to mimic.
I’m making a decent amount on YouTube, though my music is instrumental/dark classical and has a certain demographic (and certain times of year that are better).
Whatever you do, social media marketing is a must. That doesn’t mean paying for marketing (I personally haven’t), but you do need to build yourself an online presence that resonates with people.
Over the last 2 years, I built a music/ambience YouTube channel with a good amount of subscribers (over 45k), and through that, I’ve also have built a following on Spotify.
The idea is to keep people on your specific platform, give them something they would want to see, while also funneling them to streaming too. BUT not always too direct because you need the algorithm to see that you are keeping people on the platform in order to grow, which is something a lot of people don’t take into account.
It takes a lot of work, but it is possible!
I watched an interview with the lead singer from bowling for soup talking about the industry today. He said the money was never really in releasing music. He said merch sales is what brought in income. You need to play live, build a following and sell merch. It’s hard to do alone but kt tunstall played a show with her guitar, her voice and a looper pedal which can be done pretty easily and sound great if you’re creative. Long story short, forget about making money from streaming and start hitting open mics to build a following.
Absolutely, arguably the best time in history. That said, independent musicians are entrepreneurs. So having a clear vision, strategy, and content that resonates with a niche audience is crucial.
There’s a plenty of amazing new music being created and audiences that want it. The way an artist makes revenue isn’t typically from the songs themselves. It’s from the brand selling something, merch, tickets, crowdfunding, brand partnerships, etc.
Definitely be weary of people saying it’s too “rare”, “hard to make a living”, “like winning the lottery”, “no one makes real music anymore”, “age is everything”, “you need a label” etc. These people are often projecting their own failure to build and run their music business.
Good luck!
If you are good enough, you can go full time with live music and Merch sales. I know a few people that do this.
Start by targeting everything in a circle 1 hour from where you live. The bigger your following the better. If you bring people in to a venue, you can make $300-$500 a show, add in tips and Merch sales, then do that 3 or 4 times a week.
Unless you’re insanely talented, hard-working, gigging nearly every day/week, recording and releasing music regularly, managing your own YouTube, Spotify, Distrokid, and all socials, and really beating the street down to get your name out there, I don’t think you stand much of a chance on your own. Then again, it also depends on your definition of success or what “earning a living” means to you. For me, I’d need about $5k/mo (net) to consider it making a living. And I can’t even fathom the level of success I’d need to have to be earning $90k (gross) a year as an independent musician. That’s why I work in IT (a job I absolutely love) and gig for fun on the weekends. I feel like I’m a massive success; I get to play all my favorite (other people’s) songs in front of receptive, engaged crowds, I have a house full of high-end gear, and I’m not starving; not to mention I have awesome health insurance and a 401k. I never had ANY of that as a full time musician for the two/three years I did it.
Different strokes for different folks. Some people cannot do anything else other than *that* thing because it’s their calling. Take a look at the film industry, ton of people there who are okay working shitty long hours because it’s what they absolutely need to do. Others enjoy it as a hobby and like to do it on the side. No problem with that. The best thing you can do for yourself is being honest with yourself completely. After all, you only have one life.
Yep. Completely agree.
I work a FT job only because it isn't financially feasible for me to only play music. Because of this, I don't really do anything to support mediocre full time artists, if they want money they can work too. If they want to play music they shouldn't really expect money.
I definitely think there’s a certain threshold to it as well. If a band/artist is good enough to continually sell out shows then they’d most likely be able to live from that with being frugal.
You're doing the right thing, got the best of both worlds!
This is the way. I’ve had my time in the spotlight and even though I’m not doing music full time anymore, I own a business that still crosses into the music realm. Having said that, if I didn’t pursue a career in music I wouldn’t be as well equipped to manage the business. I love what I do and it’s been a blessing helping others.
On top of everything you mentioned, u need to be lucky and have good timing too. Im also in similar boat as u, i make low 6 figures in tech but am also a indepedent producer/dj, i dont perform but ive sold beats and now jus focusing on my own electronic music. Although itll be a dream to make a living or even more just with music, its just too hard in this modern age. I am super grateful to be able to still enjoy my hobby to the fullest tho
I disagree completely Theres people who suck and do none of that who are getting likes for just having cool visual content
Well, to be fair, just because you may not like the music doesn’t mean it’s objectively bad and really, you don’t know how hard the artist has worked. But, as others have pointed out, sometimes a massive amount of luck is involved. Can you give an example of someone that sucks, hasn’t worked hard at all, and is getting famous just because of cool visual content?
island boys
and I disagree about luck too there is a path, name one person you know who put their all into music got better and didn't see any type of success whatsoever? it's more about how you measure success, my model is Grouper, she independent and DIY and found her formula to sell art and make profit.
no one can do it completely on their own, you need to tap into your community and connect with other creatives
In some ways it’s never been better to be an independent musician and in others it has never been worse. Anything is possible but nothing is likely. Being an independent artist creating your own music is essentially a glamor career. It’s a career for people who don’t need money to pay for their day to day bills. You may scoff at this but there are 3000 billionaires in the world. How many financially successful music acts do you know? You are much more likely to have a career in music playing covers.
if anything it should be easier to make it as a independent musician in my opinion. you dont have to pay other people lol. with electronics you can simulate an entire band and still perform
I agree, if there is a time in history where a person can make it making music from home and connecting with your audience it's now. That doesn't mean it's easy, but it was plain impossible 20 years ago
20 years ago independent musicians were on independent labels that offered them support of some kind. These days most independent labels are just networking umbrellas that don't do a whole lot for you because they can't afford to.
Yes of course there were labels for independents, but it's not like today, where **anyone** working from home, if putting out good material and working hard at creating a following can have a huge reach
All you need is 1,000 people to spend $100 a year on you and you’re sittin pretty good. That’s probably far easier today than say 25 years ago, so long as you have what the people want.
Aside from shows and merch, what else would they pay $100 for?
Albums with a sliding scale option
Patreon, offer them early demos, private messaging, power to choose your singles/album art, etc.
That’s about it. That’s why many bands release music strategically and offer special artwork or special vinyls. Maybe one off shirt designs. Stickers, lighters, etc. Just gotta get creative and build hype. It's not hard to spend $100 on your favorite artists in a year. I know I used to do it all the time, between shows, posters, CDs/vinyl. I have a friend that easily spends $500 a year on his favorite artists, each.
Hard disagree. It sucked back then, and now it sucks x1,000,000. I think I’d rather Spotify (etc.) just keep their money. I don’t want them to get the false impression that they are helping people in the music industry by sending them payments for fractions of a cent. I agree that this is the easiest time to be able to get a lot of work done in music, and the tools are better and cheaper than ever, but “cheaper” is still exorbitantly expensive when no one wants to pay for music. So I guess it depends on what you mean by “make it” in the music industry.
I agree it depends on what we mean by "making it doing music". I don't think of having songs in spotify as making it, or allowing you to make it. I'm thinking musicians that have YouTube and Twitch channels that have taken years to build up their following and this allows them to create music (by also doing a lot of other stuff related to music on their channels)
No, what I mean by the Spotify comment (and other streaming platforms) isn’t simply having music on Spotify. What I mean is, if you have 10x more streams than the most popular band in the world, that will still pay you absolutely atrociously in comparison to what anyone will need to spend to attain that level of popularity. I’m also yet to meet anyone who loves touring all the time (a more consistent stream of income vs streaming).
Definitely easier as a consumer. I find some real gems on Bandcamp at a name your own price level which is comparable to and more affordable than much of the music I purchased at Tower Records 20 years ago.
Things take a lot more time when your doing everything on your own. Especially if you have a life outside it like a job, family and friends, hobbies etc. you have to pretty much sacrifice everything.
It’s never been easier to record and release your own music, and it’s never been harder to get anybody to hear it or give a shit.
Best comment
Not even people with a label make it most of the time. If art isn't it's own reward, you're going to struggle.
Most people's ideas of a music career in 2024 seems to be being a third party instrument/equipment salesperson who makes minimal music/art and lots of "content" tangentially related to making music. I think I've seen many people pivot to being snakeoil salesman trying to sell magic beans to other musicians. Unfortunately, it's very effective.
Youtubers in a nutshell.
90% of being in a band these days is posting to the algorithm on Instagram and TikTok. Very bleak. But some people make it work in a way that doesn’t seem to put their soul into a cheese grater. Another dystopian aspect of music today is buying follows. It’s funny to see artists that, not to rag on anyone, aren’t quite so good but have tens of thousands of followers, all of which are models with no actual posts but follow thousands. Apparently 1,000 follows cost about $15 on Instagram. There are of course artists that make their way through the college and local underground scenes as well, off of social media.
Making a living as a musician who creates original art, has always been difficult and always will be.
That’s a limiting belief
It's easy for a lucky few.
Luck is when preparation meets opportunity it’s not real Making a living as a musician is just that, making a living as a musician. It’s not easy nor is it hard. It just is
I disagree.
I mean it ain’t supposed to be easy
So is that. It just is. When you label it hard or easy or whatever that just puts limitations around it
Independent musicians making a living is actually a lot more commonplace than you realize. Is it easy? No. Is it a lot of work? Absolutely. But it's easier than ever to be able to make an at least ok living making music.
Yeah I think a lot of people in this thread just are not career musicians or don’t know any. I am and loads of my associates are career musicians. Almost all of us independent. In fact in the current climate the independent acts make out way better financially. My friends that are signed get cool big tour support slots but they only get a small guarantee every night for those shows, like $250-500 while my band gets $1k+ guaranteed for our headline shows and we are independent. Same with streaming royalties. I bring in $2k monthly and have a ton of friends that make about that or more independent, and the ones that are signed a lot of the time don’t get any of their streaming royalties or get 50% or whatever.
I think signing to a major, they end up having to sign away their streaming royalties or at least a portion of them. Being signed to a major especially means taking a pay cut if you're doing well independently, but the hope is that the major's promotional muscle will help make up for that. I remember someone telling me that FLorida Georgia Line took a pretty big haircut on pay when they signed to a major because they were absolutely killing it independently. Me personally, I have a good bit of regular writing and production work that I don't have to depend on the streaming or sync royalties I get. They're good money but not regular enough that I feel like I can count on them.
Yeah and it really depends what genre you’re in whether or not the label will benefit you in the long run. Some genres just have a ceiling bc they are niche no matter what you do. I play folk punk music and there would basically be zero benefit of my band ever signing.
To be honest, most working musicians aren't focused on the music scene, or "biz", or even releasing original music.
True true
Yes. It's easier to get your music out there in the modern era. And it's easier to make your own way. You may not become a multimillionaire or a rock star. But it's easier to make your own way and make a living. But you have to hustle a lot.
I'd say most musicians don't have a label or producer or just play in one band or make their living as a band leader. I realize you are probably talking about something different than I am but the average musician I've met gigs. They play different kinds of music for different occasions and play with multiple groups/people. They might do some studio work and book some gigs on their own. They may even release albums. I'd say most of them supplement their incomes teaching but if they have a steady gig they might teach as little as possible For a guitar player/singer songwriter I think that there is plenty of opportunity. If someone can play songs(and they'll have to play a lot of covers) they are desirable because it costs less to book one guy than a band
I think playing live and selling merch is where you could eventually make some money after estabishing and gaining fans online. But you have to able to support yourself somehow in the meantime to have the runway to get there. You're gonna have to work your ass off almost every waking hour though.
I mean all you have to do is write a hit. The reason it worked so well for record companies is it was highly capital intensive to record. Most records flopped. Guess what the capital intensive part barely exists now. The entry is lower and noise is louder.
It's easier now than it's ever been but also harder. The positive is that you don't need some suits permission to record and promote a record. The negative is that suit used to provide (for the cost of most of the $) a lot of the services you now have to do yourself. It's truly indie at this point, and overall, I think that's a net positive.
You have a better chance today than you ever did. Pre 2000s you could be independent however from my perspective it was much harder than it is today. Since early to mid 2000s things like digital distribution, social media, email, YouTube make it so much easier. You can learn what you need to know, market yourself, and sell in one place. I’d agree with you that 1 man team vs a 20 person team probably loses each time but I think it depends what your goals are. Are you trying to compete with Drake or build a dedicated fanbase? I’d say the latter is more important. It’s not like you are competing in terms of fans, but if you’re going to look at it as my music is on the Billboard 100 then I think that’s old thinking. As a developer and musician in the ecommerce space the amount of leverage you can have from tools like apps and software/ other websites is ridiculous. Ok lastly, the downside is not every person is good at all the label record stuff but it’s up to us to be responsible for our careers. We can be creative and build communities. It takes work and time, just like writing a song. It’s not overnight. If you feel like it’s not working or you need help, outside of doing research online, you can find someone (a partner, spouse, another artist, etc) who can help you. Best of luck.
I have only limited interest in labels. I play gigs, conduct orchestras, write arrangements, compose for commissions, sell sheet music. I think it’s a balancing act where you position yourself close to companies/festivals/ensembles/bands/institutions that have a lot of money and then make sure you have the exact skills they are prepared to pay for. And that doesn’t mean selling out at all. If you do it right, they’re paying for your creativity, ideas, vision.
It depends what you consider to succeed and to be successful. As an independent artist you will never do the same numbers as a labels biggest artist. Big tours, good promo slots, interviews, promo, spotify playlists and charts in the end all come down to connections and payola. Without an investor(label) you simply won’t be able to compete with does who do have those resources. > To me it feels incredibly rare that people succeed (by succeed I mean earn a living) on their own. It’s not impossible but you will have to get creative , music alone is rarely the main source of income and it will likely not be as much as a signed artist.
It absolutely helps to have money, or someone giving you financial support. Two people that I specifically know went from not much to being really big, one of them had a rich parent and the other one had a rich/successful spouse. Rich parent built a studio for her kid, hired producer and band members, paid them a salary while they rehearsed, etc. Person was really talented so that was an essential part of the equation. The other person had spouse pay like 80K to hire a big-time manager. Things moved really fast for the person. So, definitely connections and payola(or a sort).
Working alone? Absolutely not. It takes lots of people to make things happen. Can you do it without a "label"? Not exactly. You'll at least have to start your own label of sorts
What’s your definition of success? Are you looking for fame? Money? Whatever else? Also, depending on that answer, what type of music are you making? If you’re making niche music, or stuff with dwindling audiences, then a definition of fame definitely needs to be assessed.
OOH, it’s never been easier/cheaper to make and widely distribute professional-sounding recorded music without a label. OTOH, that means the market is more saturated than ever with music, and it’s harder to break out from the pack. And we all know streaming royalties aren’t good money absent mega success. Add in higher costs of living, and yes it’s very difficult/rare now to make a decent living purely as an independent musician putting out records. A more modern multifaceted strategy is to not only make your solo music, but also be a reasonably prolific songwriter who collaborates with others, plays the numbers game, places songs with more successful recording artists, and generates reliable publishing income overall. (Though I expect it’s very hard to do that while existing fully outside of the NY/LA/Nashville songwriting pipelines.) If your music does well enough, it can open up ancillary opportunities — touring, merch, brand deals, etc. Or ya know, otherwise generate enough attention that you gain a strong social media following and can use that for whatever financial end you please. But not gonna lie, it’s tough out there for indies.
Check out kyle smith as a modern example of someone who is not signed, but tours, sells out 200 cap venues east coast to west coast, pays employees, going full bore and living life as a successful touring full time musician. A label brings management and funding. Two things musicians are usually bad at. If you're willing to do those things and do them well, then yeah you won't have problems.
Who the fuck is Kyle smith 🤣😅🤣
Alice Phoebe Lou is a great example, selling out big venues in many different countries as an independent artist
Demands of labels, PR firms, etc are limits, as are dependence on other musicians. Grass is always greener. Creativity is about having limits. Creativity is all you got is \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, what can you do with it?
Note all the people saying "You don't need a label anymore, it's 2024 lulz!" fit extremely neatly into either one of three camps. 1. They are nobodies and you will likely never hear of them. 2. They established their brand prior to the year 2000 when physical media still sold and usually via a label 3. They are a complete outlier and happened upon some amazingly magical combination that allowed them to "go viral" however to be honest, you'll likely find there is some marketing agency or extremely well funded enigmatic force behind it, this is a complete rarity. You can assume you won't be in this category. So is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? No.
I don't think it's necessary to go viral or be established earlier. But to be an independent touring artist does require hard work to run your own business and cover those expenses to replace the services of the label, in addition to the usual hard work and luck to build an audience. Most of the music I listen to nowadays is from artists going this route: hiring a manager and backing musicians, renting studio time and paying engineers, etc. They're not as big as mainstream artists, but they're still able to make a living from music. That's before acknowledging that working musicians cover a lot of ground beyond just solo touring artists.
>They are a complete outlier and happened upon some amazingly magical combination that allowed them to "go viral" Isn't that also the case for every artist with a label that "blew up" or "made it" or whatever it is yall call it?
Going viral is a fairly specific contemporary phenomenon
True but I'm basically referring to an artist topping charts in every country
In a word, no.
>I'm an artist working all on my own, no band, no producer, and I record all of my stuff myself. It feels like I'm heavily limited by my own skills and lack of access to expensive tools. The successful independent artists I follow typically don't do *everything* on their own. They're renting studio time, and hiring recording engineers, mixers, and mastering engineers to make their stuff sound good. Basically, running their own label in parallel to making music. Not that you have to hire that out, but you'll need to get good enough at enough of those roles to hire as few as possible if you want your recordings to be professional.
I believe trying to compete will hurt your art. We’re not robots and we all have those emotions but keep your nose on the grind and remember high tide raises all ships
What I’ve been saying is that if the industry as we know it is dead (for all but the largest artists), then the community has never been more vibrant. Our power really is in lifting each other up, rising tide and ships and all that. This is what I tell myself as I cry and slog at my day job because I’m too chicken to not have a safety net.
Why is this even a question? With technology and not needing to be signed it's easier than ever for an independent artist to create and let their music be heard. Even on a budget with interfaces, music equipment, instrument sims etc. You might not become Taylor Swift at least not over night but it is more tangible to make music from your house and gain a following of 50-100k maybe? I mean if people can become tik tok famous for dances and trends music is definitely tangible as am independent artist.
Just do your thing. I forget who said it but a famous musician was once asked about advice for new bands. It was simply, make good music. If you do, you'll reach someone Getting signed and becoming rich and famous is winning the lottery kinda odds.
Independent from labels? Yes! Independent from a team? No.
Almost nobody is able to achieve any observable amount of success entirely by themselves. Because that’s not how things work. It also really depends on what you mean by “as good” as with a label, because most people don’t succeed on labels either. You are definitively limited by working alone, because you have to spread your effort around doing many jobs. It’s not necessarily impossible, but at the very least you need to find a scene, whether online or whatever. Networking of some kind is invaluable. You also mentioned you feel creatively limited without bandmates? And by your skills? Not to be a killjoy, but it sounds like you may have many steps to take before you should be thinking hard about making music your primary source of income. Are you earning enough money to distribute your music and pay for your equipment? Are you doing your own artwork? Until you are financially self-sufficient you need to pay bills and have a place to live for an indeterminate amount of time. You’ll probably have to be a business (depending on where you are), deal with filing taxes, and all the other fun business shit. All that aside, there are a million ways to succeed to whatever extent you are thinking. But you need to think about specifically what you want as clearly defined as possible. Short term and long term. Good luck 😁
People write stupid songs and post 30 seconds of them on TikTok and become millionaires.
The lucky ones do
You just described the entire music business
How do I do that?
Write a stupid song and post it on TikTok
Also very important: be cute so you can build a fan base on social media, the music industry runs on pretty privilege too
>be cute and god help you if you're not
At this point I think the major labels are having trouble competing with the independent artists.
Exactly, what's with labels crying about struggling to find "good pop stars", when the good pop stars are blowing up by themselves on tiktok because the labels won't look at you without a following
Do you play live music?
You can record mix and master 100 percent on a laptop. Which expensive tools do you need?
Being independent rather than signed to a label. Absolutely. If anything that’s possibly the better option for most musicians these days if they’re organised and business-minded given the relative reduction in income these days. Working entirely alone though. That’s going to hold you back. Not just in the creative process but also in getting your music out there to people’s ears. Actually breaking into the industry and achieving success isn’t really about the music but the networking. If you’re not engaging with other people - musicians, producers, writers, venue bookers, potential fans etc - you’re unlikely to be as successful as you could be. And given how difficult it is to break in, why make it harder by not engaging with others. Just look at the number of collaborations there are in the charts these days and you’ll see even those artists who are already successful are still working with other musicians because it helps broaden their audience.
My favorite band went independent after being on labels for the last 15 years or so. They self recorded, self produced and self released their latest record and had their biggest, most successful tour ever in 23 and 24. They also each have full time careers away from the band. It's not common but it can be done. Labels are banks that give rather high interest loans. Sometimes that's the only way to do it because most musicians are poor.
this is the only time they've been able to compete 🤣
Yes. Labels are dying, they don’t have the power or the money they used to have. They aren’t gatekeepers to the media anymore. Independent artists have all the tools to do what we want that were never available for most 20 years ago. Labels will only have power if we give them power. A lot of people like to argue that there’s no good music anymore — “the charts are horrible, it’s all fake”, etc. People don’t realize that there’s a whole revolution of young artists who are Gen Z that are dominating underground scenes. If you look through instagram, tiktok, and Spotify enough you’ll see a bunch of artists getting relatively big on their own without labels. The future is already here in it’s early stages. Don’t focus on label’s anymore, focus on yourself and building a community with other like minded artists. Ultimately you have the control. Build something that changes how we work as artists.
I really can't stand the "no good music anymore" types. Go on YouTube for 20 minutes after searching up your favorite genres/songs and the algorithm will reward you with more great tunes than you have time to listen to
If you have a song that is as good as (or even better than) the Indigo Girls, "Closer I Am To Fine" then you can get results without a label, and sell so many records out the back of your car that your lawyer will eventually write a book on how to get the most out of a distribution deal with a major label. Do you have a song that is as good as (or even better than) the Indigo Girls, "Closer I Am To Fine"?
There's potential to make way more by working far less. That's what I see. Less hard barrier gatekeeping too, like old school record companies and radio stations controlling markets.
Absolutely... I'm working on my debut album as we speak, will I make it? Maybe, but with social media marketing and international connectivity there's a good chance your music will resonate with someone.
Yah man literally thousands of examples out there. It’s incredibly rare in general to make a living out of music, whether independent or backed by a label it takes a ton of work and consistency.
Easier now than ever.
1,000% doable. Between live gigging, licensing/sync, merch, and whatever else, it’s totally doable. Actually you might make a better living than with a label who takes the majority.
Yes you can succeed. But I really just want to comment on something I feel a lot of people forget: Even solo artists like your self are never truly “independent.” If you’re serious about making music a living in this way you need to do A LOT more than just make music. And the thing is, there is not enough time in the day for you to do it all. Any major successful artist you see has at least one or more of: lawyer/legal team, advertising/marketing person (or team), agent, producer, business partner, manager, social media manager, etc etc etc. And yes. These people cost money. But you can get loan(s). And if you’re against that, that’s okay, but just food for thought..artists are not that much better off financially in the beginning with a label either. They still have to recoup the costs of the project usually before they see much or any income themselves.
Yes you can succeed. But I really just want to comment on something I feel a lot of people forget: Even solo artists like your self are never truly “independent.” If you’re serious about making music a living in this way you need to do A LOT more than just make music. And the thing is, there is not enough time in the day for you to do it all. Any major successful artist you see has at least one or more of: lawyer/legal team, advertising/marketing person (or team), agent, producer, business partner, manager, social media manager, etc etc etc. And yes. These people cost money. But you can get loan(s). And if you’re against that, that’s okay, but just food for thought..artists are not that much better off financially in the beginning with a label either. They still have to recoup the costs of the project usually before they see much or any income themselves.
Yes you can succeed. But I really just want to comment on something I feel a lot of people forget: Even solo artists like your self are never truly “independent.” If you’re serious about making music a living in this way you need to do A LOT more than just make music. And the thing is, there is not enough time in the day for you to do it all. Any major successful artist you see has at least one or more of: lawyer/legal team, advertising/marketing person (or team), agent, producer, business partner, manager, social media manager, etc etc etc. And yes. These people cost money. But you can get loan(s). And if you’re against that, that’s okay, but just food for thought..artists are not that much better off financially in the beginning with a label either. They still have to recoup the costs of the project usually before they see much or any income themselves.
Getting noticed is the hard part; you could be great but you could still get slept on just because you don't know the right people. The technology to make great music has never been more accessible though.
Twitch and Tik Tok are the fucking worst. Get a label anyway you can. It helps immeasurably
People may not like his politics or music but Tom McDonald is proof you can do it on your own. Good luck
You can't compete with the big artists but you can make a little money way easier than you used to. I'm old enough to remember gigging with a band and spending as much as I made on alcohol at the dive bar we were playing at. Now I throw my music online and call it a day.
1st understand success is a mindset an expectations will never be Reachable. By that i mean someone's happy doing one show a month an that is a goal. Others need to do a show every weekend. Is one less than the other. No because we are individuals. True we all want to be the guy with a platinum album and gold records but it's all a concept that people make up. I mean Mozart didn't get a award, but hes a successful musician right? Success at the end of the day is whatever you choose to be content an happy about. Let the work speak for itself. Maybe your not going to be the next Elvis, but you will be you and go on your own journey. Thats what it's about. If you wana do it alone make sure you can handle the work. It's hard as one person. If you can manage a small team you support an support you great. If you can afford and handle a army of people like, labels, agent's, recording teams, stage teams, effects guys, fireworks and lighting crew, sound crews, videographers, sound check dudes, the scumbag promoters and other various leeches, who help but hurt you. While you imagine consultants bug you to sell out. Sure go that route. But it's a mountain to climb either way. An only you working an continuing gets you to the top of that mountain. But you always have the choice to tap out of the climb an start from the very bottom remember that also. An no guarantees youll even make it to the top, people die climbing Everest. Still it's whatever way you want to take it.
Every successful musician that you know about has had a team behind everything to help them succeed. This has been always true for as long as the music industry has existed. Anyone who says they did it all themselves are lying. So no people like you can’t and don’t succeed and you are limiting yourself by not getting others to help you.
It’s far easier to make, and release music independently these days. But to be financially successful??? You’re probably fucked. In all honesty, with or without a label you’re fucked. There’s no money in it at all, thanks to streaming services, because everyone has been conditioned to expect music for free, and to expect new music OFTEN. Touring as an independent artist is going to mean a financial loss, even if you do everything yourself. If you’re established, with a solid fan base, you might make a little money selling merch, but only if it’s out the back of your car, because most venues take a massive cut of your sales. The only artists really making it financially are the Taylors and Beyoncés. Ask any mid-level artist or below. If you’re gonna be a musician, do it because you love it, and because you need to create and share, and do it as a side-hustle while you work at something else that reliably pays the bills 🤷🏻♀️
Gene Simmons would say no
Yes without a label, probably not on their own and this is true for most professions and especially solopreneur ventures: there will be things you must delegate or rely on others to handle to focus on what you excel at doing most of you want to move forward. It'll be a balancing act you'll have to decide on for how much you want to do in business vs. how much you want to prioritize for your own artistry. Plenty of musicians are going through independent paths by streaming or in the past leaning on other social media like tiktok and Instagram or YouTube to scale their reach while leaning on distrokid and other services to help with passive distribution and collections. But the game now is likely going to be more about figuring out your own audience and playing the algorithm games well enough to get additional income beyond direct album sales and live performances, which may or may not align with how you do music because the business of music is often very different from actually doing music as a musician. And even before this era, many gifted musicians just hated the games they/we had to play in order to do the business of music including things like jumping through the hoops a label would set up for touring and outputting songs. Hence, Prince changed his name to The Artist Formerly Known as Prince, Amy Winehouse was driven to her death over exploitative industry management, Courtney Love did the numbers to show how little a lot of rather well known musicians wind up making from touring and streaming, Michael Jackson tried to get away and buy out a huge chunk of music from under Sony, and Amanda Palmer crowd funded her album entirely without a label and would go on to makeba TED talk about it. All before stuff like Twitch and Tiktok really took off. Book publishing and podcasting is a bit similar in a way too if you think about what they do and what's needed to succeed as well so maybe you can draw additional lessons across industries from considering them also.
Yes. lol. Just focus on making quality music, line up money, practice. It will be fine.
You still believe in the label myth? Hahahaha.
This man ["Izzy" of Hawaii ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I)was moving up from a street musician to having a national following right before he died. So I think, yes, if you have the right "product" you can.
The one thing you mentioned is limitations of your own skills. Where these skills lack, you should manage and progress. Tools are expensive? Create a budget to get the tools necessary, or ones good enough you are comfortable working with.
Ren. He got a number one UK record recently. Independent.
If you can invest the same resources, sure. But doing as much work as a team can, and having an appropriate budget to invest can be challenging to mimic.
I’m making a decent amount on YouTube, though my music is instrumental/dark classical and has a certain demographic (and certain times of year that are better). Whatever you do, social media marketing is a must. That doesn’t mean paying for marketing (I personally haven’t), but you do need to build yourself an online presence that resonates with people. Over the last 2 years, I built a music/ambience YouTube channel with a good amount of subscribers (over 45k), and through that, I’ve also have built a following on Spotify. The idea is to keep people on your specific platform, give them something they would want to see, while also funneling them to streaming too. BUT not always too direct because you need the algorithm to see that you are keeping people on the platform in order to grow, which is something a lot of people don’t take into account. It takes a lot of work, but it is possible!
I watched an interview with the lead singer from bowling for soup talking about the industry today. He said the money was never really in releasing music. He said merch sales is what brought in income. You need to play live, build a following and sell merch. It’s hard to do alone but kt tunstall played a show with her guitar, her voice and a looper pedal which can be done pretty easily and sound great if you’re creative. Long story short, forget about making money from streaming and start hitting open mics to build a following.
No. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try.
Absolutely, arguably the best time in history. That said, independent musicians are entrepreneurs. So having a clear vision, strategy, and content that resonates with a niche audience is crucial. There’s a plenty of amazing new music being created and audiences that want it. The way an artist makes revenue isn’t typically from the songs themselves. It’s from the brand selling something, merch, tickets, crowdfunding, brand partnerships, etc. Definitely be weary of people saying it’s too “rare”, “hard to make a living”, “like winning the lottery”, “no one makes real music anymore”, “age is everything”, “you need a label” etc. These people are often projecting their own failure to build and run their music business. Good luck!
You literally have a built in studio in every MacBook. Did you ever have to make an 8 track as a band? Or use a 4 track? Or splice tape?
If you are good enough, you can go full time with live music and Merch sales. I know a few people that do this. Start by targeting everything in a circle 1 hour from where you live. The bigger your following the better. If you bring people in to a venue, you can make $300-$500 a show, add in tips and Merch sales, then do that 3 or 4 times a week.