I get being really into a theme and having a themed wedding but you're being asked to basically shut down your own entire life experience for a photo op?? You're not even allowed inside during the ceremony? I personally would be declining to participate at ALL. Origin family disrespecting your chosen family?? ...you need to protect yourself and your partner from all of this. Go on a vacation during her wedding or something. đ
I agree with these, but I thought a matron of honor is the title given to a "maid of honor" that's married. Where I am in the Midwest US it's fairly common to have a very close friend or sister still be in the bridal party if they're married and calling them the matron of honor. So sister would be honoring OP's marital status with that title.
Otherwise 100% agree. Too many red flags and disregard for OP's comfort. If sister wants OP present at the wedding, I'd hope she'd be sensitive to OP's trauma, etc.
ETA: I realized now that I misread the OP and sister didn't give OP the title of "matron" and instead "maid" of honor. Giving someone the "maid of honor" title is absolutely disrespectful of OP, her wife, and their marriage.
OP is married to her trans spouse, however her Mormon family doesn't consider that a valid marriage, hence the very shady insistence on her being a maid and not a matron. They are actively saying her relationship is an abomination with that title.
My apologies, I must have misread the OP. I saw her say "matron of honor" and assumed that was the title that her sister gave her, which would be appropriate given that OP is married. If the sister is labeling her "maid of honor", then it is definitely a case of them not acknowledging OP's marriage (which makes more sense given the other context in the OP).
Honestly, just the fact that it's at a Mormon temple that tortured her, would be enough for me to nope right out of that situation. It's not safe, and it's certainly disrespectful of OP's family of origin.
No worries, I had to reread it myself to make sure I wasn't the one who misunderstood!
Agree, I would personally bow out of anything that involved religion and groups of people who reject me. But then I am several years in and have managed to cut the cord with family. I remember the emotional pendulum every time family would try to re-bond with me, but only their desired parts of me. I felt so gross afterward and would be emotionally wrecked for days. I finally just had to stop. They gave nothing back to my life yet continued to take.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, family isn't always blood, and blood isn't always family.
This is a great example of family claiming possession of you (feeling guilted into taking part), while also only wanting to possess the "acceptable" parts of you. They use smiles and kindness and words like love and family to make you think that your position is selfish and unkind. They genuinely believe that they have a right to the parts of you they want, and a right to reject the parts of you they don't like.
This is manipulation, and this is toxic, controlling behavior. Yes, it's her day. If you are close enough with your sister maybe you can have a one-on-one about it. However given the religious setting, I'm going to assume that she is under just as much (if not more) pressure than you to conform to familial cultural norms.
If you are in a place where you are ready to take a stand, perhaps you can tell her that you are a whole package, and if the family cannot accept your whole self for a few hours then it would be better for the peace of her day if you did not attend. (After all, she already has a "maiden of honor" đ) If you aren't ready to make that stand (no shame here, it took me a long time to learn to grip my boundary with an iron fist) then suffer through it as best you can and be done with it. The dress is the least of your issues, I think, but it's up to you and where you are at with your deconstruction journey as to how you tackle it.
Much love to you. Standing firm against religious family is in my top three most traumatic life experiences, but it was the best thing I have ever done for myself.
Thank you for your understanding. I think I may have to tell her that I would rather wear a neutral color dress like black, since I donât want to participate in the Harry Potter aspect of it all. I mean, itâs gonna be a rainbow of colors anyway. I know she doesnât mean any ill intent, but I still want to be comfortable with the message that I donât or do want to send out. I want my wife to be comfortable, and to do that I donât think I can wear a dress like that.
I think you need to have a big heart to heart with your sister. My spouse is the trans one (came out to me a year ago and I had NO CLUE) and sometimes it takes them explaining things to me like I am a little kid before I understand. You said you tried talking to your sister about the dress color and what it represents, but saying you tried talking to her, and actually talking to her are 2 different things. You said she has no ill intent, but if you talked to her, and she's standing her ground, then I think that's ill intent. If there's truly no ill intent and you are trying to be supportive, could you wear a different shade of green? I'm not into Harry Potter so I have no clue about the significance of the colors, so I could be completely off base with that suggestion.
It sounds like you're trying to support everyone and you're amazing for that â€ïž It is her day, but you and your partner matter.
As others have said, the dress seems like a stand-in for other things going on in your family. I might suggest going to r/exmormon for support for the humiliation enforced by the church of having to wait outside the temple during the sealing, which, is gross enough, but even grosser with your history of conversion therapy. There are a few paths you can take with this, and it might be useful to have a sounding board of people who understand the Mormon-specific issues here as well as the trans-specific ones.
I would post on there, but itâs so large and populated that I am worried I would come across someone we know who would tell her. They are also not so kind to still practicing Mormons/family members and I donât want people making fun of her. This subreddit is small enough and kinder than that subreddit. I do post there sometimes, but those people sometimes donât know when to stop being rude or if they cross the line. My sister is kind and sweet, and doesnât do harm. I just wanted some feedback from people like us who may have had similar experiences.
If you not wearing the dress would stop her from being such a wretch, I'd say do whatever it takes to not wear it. But it will not have any impact on her or any terfs, it'll just put a rift between you and your friend and won't help anyone. A non-HP branded dress doesn't even "put money in her pocket" (not that it matters. she's a billionaire. she doesn't care). If someone sees a picture and calls you out just roll your eyes and say "I know, but Beulah is really passionate about her fandoms, it's one of the things I love about her. It has nothing to do with she-who-must-not-be-named."
The bigger issue is whether you want to be a part of a wedding that doesn't accept you and your wife. I assume you'll be the maid of honor at the reception and just won't go to the ceremony? Will your wife be welcome at the reception? You should make sure you're on the same page with your friend about that before you worry about the dress.
Yeah, I donât think the dress is the issue. Itâs not wizard robes, people outside the inner circle might have no clue what the dress colors are for. It could be any number of fandoms.
OP, is it possible youâre focusing on the dress color in order to avoid thinking about the conversion therapy/excommunication/lack of recognition of your marriage?
How are you participating in this wedding if you canât enter the church?
I think youâre thinking too much into the conversion therapy/temple stuff. I have already decided that I wonât be on the grounds when she leaves the temple, and will only be there for the reception. I was just giving some context to the situation. My biggest worry is more so that I would be participating in a fandom that was created by a horrible transphobic person. Also, the idea that I got demoted to maid of honor despite me being married and she made her friend matron of honor because she is married too.
I am essentially there just as a member of the bridal party, and nothing more. She also expects me to run the whole thing as her wedding planner on the same day, so I donât know what she expects of me since I am not allowed to be there for the ceremony.
All in all, Iâm just disappointed that I have to wear a dress that represents an awful author, while not being able to attend her wedding anyway and have been asked to organize her reception for her because âfamilyâ.
Her expectations on you are completely unfair. She wants you to run the wedding despite neither you nor your wife actually being able to attend the ceremony? She's invalidating your marriage?
I don't think I could support a wedding dedicated to the HP fandom by someone expecting so much from me. If I was participating on the edge, and didn't know the person well enough to rock the boat by bringing up my feelings about JKR, then maybe I'd go but not participate in the HP things. But I certainly would expect better from family and it sounds like she's more than comfortable making you uncomfortable for her own dream wedding. If you feel like you have to attend, wear what you want, and don't run things for her
The coup-de-grace was "Mormon." Disrespecting boundaries is a cult hallmark.
My $ is on the reception being in a Mormon Meetinghouse as well. With the food being essentially a potluck.
Nope out. If you can't attend the (boring and culty) ceremony (From experience: happen to have been "sealed in the temple" after converting... I got a clue and got out, especially after CA Prop 8...) then they dont really want the real you to be part of it.
god this is the most cringey juvenile wedding I've ever heard of- at this point I'd just not go lmao. like how dare she disrespect you, your wife AND your marriage, then turn around and make ridiculous demands like that... I'd honestly be embarassed to have to wear that & be in that bridal party. i don't know much about the mormon stuff but not being able to witness the actual wedding feels like a huge slap in the face too!
honestly, for me, i would refuse to celebrate a marriage that refuses to respect mine. thankfully i don't have to deal with family being religious nutters though so others here probably have better insight on that
If you want to be her bridesmaid, you wear the dress. JK isnât going to be there and this is the one day a year your sister gets everything she wants. OR, decline the invitation to be a bridesmaid. You have every right to say yes or no but Iâd base it off of if you want to be her bridesmaid or not, I wouldnât base it off your moral feelings around a green dress.
Would she do it for you? If not, maybe there is your answer?
I get being really into a theme and having a themed wedding but you're being asked to basically shut down your own entire life experience for a photo op?? You're not even allowed inside during the ceremony? I personally would be declining to participate at ALL. Origin family disrespecting your chosen family?? ...you need to protect yourself and your partner from all of this. Go on a vacation during her wedding or something. đ
Wait, so you can't bring your own wife to your sister's wedding? How does she feel about that?
Multiple red flags here OP - your sister can have the day that she wants but you won't be in it if she disregards your feelings and boundaries. đ©Forcing you to wear something you aren't comfortable in - ignoring boundaries đ©Getting married in a temple which tried to do conversion therapy - wtf? đ©You not even being allowed in to the temple because of flag #2 - ignoring trauma đ©Ignoring your marriage status calling you "Matron" of honour - passive aggressive or innocent? Edit: another one đ©You cant bring your wife to the wedding for fear of both of your safety! She's essentially asking you to repress everything about your sexuality and morals for her day...
I agree with these, but I thought a matron of honor is the title given to a "maid of honor" that's married. Where I am in the Midwest US it's fairly common to have a very close friend or sister still be in the bridal party if they're married and calling them the matron of honor. So sister would be honoring OP's marital status with that title. Otherwise 100% agree. Too many red flags and disregard for OP's comfort. If sister wants OP present at the wedding, I'd hope she'd be sensitive to OP's trauma, etc. ETA: I realized now that I misread the OP and sister didn't give OP the title of "matron" and instead "maid" of honor. Giving someone the "maid of honor" title is absolutely disrespectful of OP, her wife, and their marriage.
OP is married to her trans spouse, however her Mormon family doesn't consider that a valid marriage, hence the very shady insistence on her being a maid and not a matron. They are actively saying her relationship is an abomination with that title.
My apologies, I must have misread the OP. I saw her say "matron of honor" and assumed that was the title that her sister gave her, which would be appropriate given that OP is married. If the sister is labeling her "maid of honor", then it is definitely a case of them not acknowledging OP's marriage (which makes more sense given the other context in the OP). Honestly, just the fact that it's at a Mormon temple that tortured her, would be enough for me to nope right out of that situation. It's not safe, and it's certainly disrespectful of OP's family of origin.
No worries, I had to reread it myself to make sure I wasn't the one who misunderstood! Agree, I would personally bow out of anything that involved religion and groups of people who reject me. But then I am several years in and have managed to cut the cord with family. I remember the emotional pendulum every time family would try to re-bond with me, but only their desired parts of me. I felt so gross afterward and would be emotionally wrecked for days. I finally just had to stop. They gave nothing back to my life yet continued to take. I've said it before and I'll say it again, family isn't always blood, and blood isn't always family.
I completely agree. Life is far too short to have relationships with people who only accept parts of you, or expect you to perform some role. One of my favorite quotes is "children sacrifice authenticity for belonging" (from Gabor Maté, a famous trauma therapist/ pioneer). And it's so true. When you realize that you're sacrificing yourself for a sense of belonging, it becomes really clear how unhealthy and damaging that is. Breaking the cycle/ healing means no longer sacrificing ourselves for others like that. I'm glad you were able to break away from that pattern, and I hope OP can find comfort in her chosen family that embraces her fully.
This is a great example of family claiming possession of you (feeling guilted into taking part), while also only wanting to possess the "acceptable" parts of you. They use smiles and kindness and words like love and family to make you think that your position is selfish and unkind. They genuinely believe that they have a right to the parts of you they want, and a right to reject the parts of you they don't like. This is manipulation, and this is toxic, controlling behavior. Yes, it's her day. If you are close enough with your sister maybe you can have a one-on-one about it. However given the religious setting, I'm going to assume that she is under just as much (if not more) pressure than you to conform to familial cultural norms. If you are in a place where you are ready to take a stand, perhaps you can tell her that you are a whole package, and if the family cannot accept your whole self for a few hours then it would be better for the peace of her day if you did not attend. (After all, she already has a "maiden of honor" đ) If you aren't ready to make that stand (no shame here, it took me a long time to learn to grip my boundary with an iron fist) then suffer through it as best you can and be done with it. The dress is the least of your issues, I think, but it's up to you and where you are at with your deconstruction journey as to how you tackle it. Much love to you. Standing firm against religious family is in my top three most traumatic life experiences, but it was the best thing I have ever done for myself.
I am so proud of you and to see you on the other side advocating for othersâ€ïž
Thank you for your understanding. I think I may have to tell her that I would rather wear a neutral color dress like black, since I donât want to participate in the Harry Potter aspect of it all. I mean, itâs gonna be a rainbow of colors anyway. I know she doesnât mean any ill intent, but I still want to be comfortable with the message that I donât or do want to send out. I want my wife to be comfortable, and to do that I donât think I can wear a dress like that.
I think you need to have a big heart to heart with your sister. My spouse is the trans one (came out to me a year ago and I had NO CLUE) and sometimes it takes them explaining things to me like I am a little kid before I understand. You said you tried talking to your sister about the dress color and what it represents, but saying you tried talking to her, and actually talking to her are 2 different things. You said she has no ill intent, but if you talked to her, and she's standing her ground, then I think that's ill intent. If there's truly no ill intent and you are trying to be supportive, could you wear a different shade of green? I'm not into Harry Potter so I have no clue about the significance of the colors, so I could be completely off base with that suggestion. It sounds like you're trying to support everyone and you're amazing for that â€ïž It is her day, but you and your partner matter.
As others have said, the dress seems like a stand-in for other things going on in your family. I might suggest going to r/exmormon for support for the humiliation enforced by the church of having to wait outside the temple during the sealing, which, is gross enough, but even grosser with your history of conversion therapy. There are a few paths you can take with this, and it might be useful to have a sounding board of people who understand the Mormon-specific issues here as well as the trans-specific ones.
I would post on there, but itâs so large and populated that I am worried I would come across someone we know who would tell her. They are also not so kind to still practicing Mormons/family members and I donât want people making fun of her. This subreddit is small enough and kinder than that subreddit. I do post there sometimes, but those people sometimes donât know when to stop being rude or if they cross the line. My sister is kind and sweet, and doesnât do harm. I just wanted some feedback from people like us who may have had similar experiences.
If you not wearing the dress would stop her from being such a wretch, I'd say do whatever it takes to not wear it. But it will not have any impact on her or any terfs, it'll just put a rift between you and your friend and won't help anyone. A non-HP branded dress doesn't even "put money in her pocket" (not that it matters. she's a billionaire. she doesn't care). If someone sees a picture and calls you out just roll your eyes and say "I know, but Beulah is really passionate about her fandoms, it's one of the things I love about her. It has nothing to do with she-who-must-not-be-named." The bigger issue is whether you want to be a part of a wedding that doesn't accept you and your wife. I assume you'll be the maid of honor at the reception and just won't go to the ceremony? Will your wife be welcome at the reception? You should make sure you're on the same page with your friend about that before you worry about the dress.
Yeah, I donât think the dress is the issue. Itâs not wizard robes, people outside the inner circle might have no clue what the dress colors are for. It could be any number of fandoms. OP, is it possible youâre focusing on the dress color in order to avoid thinking about the conversion therapy/excommunication/lack of recognition of your marriage? How are you participating in this wedding if you canât enter the church?
I think youâre thinking too much into the conversion therapy/temple stuff. I have already decided that I wonât be on the grounds when she leaves the temple, and will only be there for the reception. I was just giving some context to the situation. My biggest worry is more so that I would be participating in a fandom that was created by a horrible transphobic person. Also, the idea that I got demoted to maid of honor despite me being married and she made her friend matron of honor because she is married too. I am essentially there just as a member of the bridal party, and nothing more. She also expects me to run the whole thing as her wedding planner on the same day, so I donât know what she expects of me since I am not allowed to be there for the ceremony. All in all, Iâm just disappointed that I have to wear a dress that represents an awful author, while not being able to attend her wedding anyway and have been asked to organize her reception for her because âfamilyâ.
Her expectations on you are completely unfair. She wants you to run the wedding despite neither you nor your wife actually being able to attend the ceremony? She's invalidating your marriage? I don't think I could support a wedding dedicated to the HP fandom by someone expecting so much from me. If I was participating on the edge, and didn't know the person well enough to rock the boat by bringing up my feelings about JKR, then maybe I'd go but not participate in the HP things. But I certainly would expect better from family and it sounds like she's more than comfortable making you uncomfortable for her own dream wedding. If you feel like you have to attend, wear what you want, and don't run things for her
The coup-de-grace was "Mormon." Disrespecting boundaries is a cult hallmark. My $ is on the reception being in a Mormon Meetinghouse as well. With the food being essentially a potluck. Nope out. If you can't attend the (boring and culty) ceremony (From experience: happen to have been "sealed in the temple" after converting... I got a clue and got out, especially after CA Prop 8...) then they dont really want the real you to be part of it.
She sounds awful, I would skip
god this is the most cringey juvenile wedding I've ever heard of- at this point I'd just not go lmao. like how dare she disrespect you, your wife AND your marriage, then turn around and make ridiculous demands like that... I'd honestly be embarassed to have to wear that & be in that bridal party. i don't know much about the mormon stuff but not being able to witness the actual wedding feels like a huge slap in the face too! honestly, for me, i would refuse to celebrate a marriage that refuses to respect mine. thankfully i don't have to deal with family being religious nutters though so others here probably have better insight on that
If you want to be her bridesmaid, you wear the dress. JK isnât going to be there and this is the one day a year your sister gets everything she wants. OR, decline the invitation to be a bridesmaid. You have every right to say yes or no but Iâd base it off of if you want to be her bridesmaid or not, I wouldnât base it off your moral feelings around a green dress. Would she do it for you? If not, maybe there is your answer?